Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: kpnuts on December 27, 2015, 05:10:06 pm
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Hi all i received this infamous kit as a present from my missus (note from the title I will only be correcting those errors my megre skills and even megerer knowledge will allow) that said as I'm building just a generic ship of the line it will end up being exactly right
I have today ordered some gold leaf for this kit as it worked so well on the La Reale and the Royal Sovriegn, I have some copper leaf and brass leaf, wish I could find some bronze leaf for the canons (does anyone know how I could colour brass leaf to look like bronze
I know everyone will be saying get good am blocks and tackle also bin the thread and get some proper stuff, but, the missus has said keep the costs down, also I feel why spend more on am stuff than the kit cost, so will be investing in bees wax and apart from the gold leaf all else will be oob (apart from maybe some scratch building
[/size](http://i.imgur.com/ydrHO7y.jpg)[/color]
(http://i.imgur.com/zzpFv45.jpg)
the molding is as exquisite as it was on the La Reale.
(http://i.imgur.com/m6bIzqR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1u35ONB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cI7qqfa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Bumnvcf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ruLs37r.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NgxUPbz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/A2cDDQw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qqFjrA0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cxoolGg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eQvh7a7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gNBwX3O.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ivORuzc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1sdG4cI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vj3Ks0z.jpg)
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Can anyone workout my first problem(It's a biggie, wont be able to go far with this at the moment )[/size]You would think I would have learnt with heller by now (check everything, then check it again.
(http://i.imgur.com/TqDYhv6.jpg)
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push me pull me springs to mind
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2 hull halves of the same side?
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You could always make two half models :embarrassed:
Ned
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Hard 'a port me hearties........there ain't no starboard !!
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Hi all well I cant do much more than this(of course when the gold comes will get more done) I really am peed off though, I know from experience it will be weeks before I get the replacement hull half, stuff like this is really frustrating.
(http://i.imgur.com/SplcFJZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/l48mHml.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iYfQD03.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3pVOCuQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/W3iFJnG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nps1KOs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Fmx8ZS2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bCMnc8d.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cF8bzsC.jpg)
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Aint it a nuisance? Who on earth is doing their packing?
For the bronze effect, you can get pantina fluids that jewellers etc use and must surely work on brass to give a similar finish?
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Hi all well the gold leaf has arrived for this but will leave any guilding untill\if the other hull side turns up.[/size][/font][/color]
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did this kit back in the 70s. took a lot of time and painting, but still one of my favourites.
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Hi all well the part is coming, so here is 2 nights of guilding run out of gold leaf now, will have to order some more)
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Blooming heck, you can see why our Navy got rid of their craftsmen! That Gold work cost a large percentage of a ship's construction price.
I hope your piece of hull arrives promptly Ken. The guilding looks very warming on a cold night:O)
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That is pathetic when compared to the Royal Sovriegn, but then it (the Royal Sovriegn )cost 67,000 quid, it's why he introduced theships tax
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That is a huge amount for the time!
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here's tonight's update
(http://i.imgur.com/A7Es66D.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LUlylbx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M7CfyeF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aGG8tcT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/REACBRu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jWkUchV.jpg)
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I like the blue very much. I sets off the gold nicely.
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You are doing a beautiful job of the gilding and colour work, just like your superb La Reale De France.
Could I please ask that you give more information on the method you use to apply the gold leaf.
I re read your La Reale thread last night and could not find anything on the technique itself.
I am sure I am not the only one who occasionally has need to realistically gild detail on period ships. The last time I used a special paint with gold particles in suspension, but leaf would have looked better.
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Hi all I've finished one of the rear gallerys so I thought a lot of the detail was hidden so added an oil wash to them
(http://i.imgur.com/IRLeeVk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Q5JOkpT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CoPcxKW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5O96zeU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LUyhcSF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pCsvOV9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9306883.jpg)
It requires very specialist tools, a soft cloth and a pair of scissors and a soft brush (I use my missus blusher brush )(that's all I use anyway) this is now my third ship I've guided so I'm still a novice. You need some gold leaf (transfer is easier than loose leaf, although not as hard wearing(being thicker than transfer )) you also need size (this is basically gold glue) you paint it on and leave it for 20 mins (to go tacky) then cut a manageable piece if the leaf and lay it over the piece to be guilded the press it down with the soft cloth then gently brush the loose gold off, you will find little cracks which you then need to re apply some gold leaf to those areas (you won't need to re size)if you find the gold is not sticking you have not left the size long enough oh you will also need shellac varnish as the gold is very soft and easily damaged.
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Thank you for that detail description of your method in applying it, it is an 'art form' I appreciate.
I have a couple of ships with a small amount of gilded filigree work on the stem and stern. I had used a special paint with gold particles in suspension, but it would be nice to gild them properly.
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Think I may have to order myself some gold leaf and have a play
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I can see this effect being beneficial on the figurehead detail on Ninteenth century warships.
Thanks for confirming what glue you use Ken.
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Think I may have to order myself some gold leaf and have a play
After perusing the interweb I was suprised at how cheap this stuff actually is and ordered myself a little start kit for £4.99 inc postage
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That is probably imitation gold leaf the cheapest I can find is 14 quid 21 with postage, you will need cotton gloves to use that or it will tarnish.
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This is the one I have ordered:-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gold-leaf-Kit-Gold-sheets-adhesive-brush-Gilding-Art-Design-christmas-gift-/201500782439?hash=item2eea61ef67:g:n-EAAOSw7hRWQzc6
Something to play with.
For the sake of a fiver I think it will be fun to practice with
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Sorry I stand corrected, although I get 25 leaves and they are 8 cm x8cm
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The tarnishing might even provide some interesting weathering effects if treated carefully, akin to a patina.
Looking forward to seeing your results Mr Essex:O)
Oops, Ken and my messages arrived at the same time!
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Hi all here is my first modification
(http://i.imgur.com/7g10p2H.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FeR9SeW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LrJevNF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vQYYhLA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vLybb1x.jpg)
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Bling is the word. She will look excellent with all that detail emphasised Ken.
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Hi all well all the guilding is done Just waiting on the hull now
(http://i66.tinypic.com/axcjmf.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/33mbv3d.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/aaxd28.jpg)
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Well I hope they pull their finger out and get the piece to you very soon. Beautiful work Ken.
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Gingerbread work is the old Royal Navy word/term for 'bling'.
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Hi all well it's amazing the effect threatening to sue, not just for the cost of the kit but also compensation can have. Special delivery today the hull half arrived(no letter of apology or even a note just the box with the hull in it)
So looks like it's back on then.
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Yippee !!! :-)) Sighs of relief all round. SO glad you finally received the correct hull half and can continue this amazing build. Anyone who says "kits" are easy needs a good kicking.
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Hi all well now the hull half is here I'm like a cat with 2 tails, so my first job to remove the moulded plimsole line (I'm raising it a bit to improve the look) (seen it done elsewhere (davidk's build) and it looks much better)
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[/size]I must say I think it's worked really well, you cant tell it was there at all[/color]
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[/size]couple of strengthening strips in the bottom[/color]
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[/size]She is huge.[/color]
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Huge and impressive.
I echo Bob's glee to see that a bit of chivvying got results.
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Hi all here is tonights update .
(http://i.imgur.com/iTwsio4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uLiG2FG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/l0fKl9M.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ovVB3mZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TyWAQqO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/wlBgM3Z.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xX6zURc.jpg)
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Blimey
You don't mess about!
Id still be looking at the bits in the box :embarrassed:
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Hi all, I was asked by a few people how I did this wood effect so thought maybe some of you would be interested.
First of all I apologise my the first pics of the procedure are missing as the pics on my phone we're corrupted for some reason, it dosn't really matter as the process it the same throughout I will explain as we go.
First here is the huge list of things required
(http://i.imgur.com/KMmlFiH.jpg)
this is where my phone let me down I have no pics if this part as they were corrupted(sorry)
the pastels wont stick to plastic so you have to use matt paint (I've no idea if this will work with acrylics as I use enamels but I think it would)
I picked the lightest colour of the wood I'm trying to replicate for the base colour (in this case Humbrol m 63)
paint the wood with a thin coat in the direction of the grain if it looks patchy that is good (helps with the effect)as long as it all has some paint on it (look at the pictures of the hull you can see its very patchy)
once that is dry take the darkest wood colour pastel you are using and lightly drag it over the grain in a random manner not everywhere so it all looks the same , then with the brush, again in the direction of the grain brush it in
(http://i.imgur.com/ptlpJWq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/si4HfMl.jpg)
then with the highlight colour (we have pictures of the rest of the process from now on) do exactly the same
(http://i.imgur.com/xgY0Pg2.jpg)
again brush in the direction of the grain
(http://i.imgur.com/8JRGwzl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gKhjqH7.jpg)
next get some black pastel and dab on details (anywhere that may get stained from water or nooks an crannys where swilling the deck wouldn't get plus a few random areas
(http://i.imgur.com/Q5jCCFZ.jpg)
now brush across the gain (only very lightly and only a couple of passes)
(http://i.imgur.com/gd61kZs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/A88kDfU.jpg)
now brush with the grain as much as you like till you get the desired effect
(http://i.imgur.com/2xL150F.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/u0Bj1LV.jpg)
now comes the important bit (DO NOT VARNISH THIS YET) the varnish stays wet too long and the pastels merge and you just end up with brown blotches. spray with your missus hair spray at a distance of at least 12 inches ( you don't want it to look wet when that is dry then you can spray your varnish.
(http://i.imgur.com/N3aZ7xR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yeEBbbr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8kLsyLC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Kl1J6zo.jpg)
Just to show the versitility of this here is some wood from my Mefistofeles which I wanted a mahogany effect (its 1/12 so the wood grain effect is much couser)
red base coat
(http://i.imgur.com/r0Ts0PW.jpg)
first pastel colour
(http://i.imgur.com/EgUmTMZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g5lFLtR.jpg)
the genius of this method is if you make a mistake or don't like the effect (untill you varnish it) wash it under the tap dry with a cloth and your missus hair dryer, ten mins and you're ready to go again, you tell me any other method that's that easy to redo.
Hope this is of some help to some one
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I'm afraid that your Captain and officers would have been thrown off of the ship when the Admiral saw the deck in this state. On a warship the deck was scrubbed each morning using sand and stone blocks so would not get stained and dirty. The hull below the waterline was not bare wood but would have been painted brown or white. This brown stuff or white stuff was a protection to try and deter worms and ocean life from growing on the hull. The paint would often contain tar, sulphur or lime although it was not really effective against weed growth which is why these ships would generally spend around 3/4 of the time in port where they could be dry docked or careened for cleaning.
Jim
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I have not done the white yet I do know that as I said earlier in the build I removed the moulded plimsole line in order to move it, thanks for the input, I mean no offence but this is only a model and I have no intention of presenting it as a replica of the Soliel Royal (hence the title) this is aesthetically my impression of a 17th century ship of the line after a few years service.
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Wherever the technique is applied, it is an excellent effect and I can see it being useful in a variety of places such as old wooden structures. well worn lorry bodies and even old ships in ordinary. I used to use pastels to recreate sprayed camouflage patterns on model vehicles (Too lazy to clean up airbrushes after use!)
Keep up the good work.
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Hi all here is the next update
some of the many, many cannons, think I will see them in my dreams
(http://i.imgur.com/prDYrmx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oYKJUFP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UDudFpa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kv3Ftwl.jpg)
Couldn't resist trying the gold up against it
(http://i.imgur.com/BNlX4y8.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9KCBaQz.jpg)
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Hi all these 2 ships are pretty much the same scale (I think it just goes to show how big this ship was)(although the Victory would dwarf the Soliel)
(http://i.imgur.com/cgjNIIl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/X691TnN.jpg)
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Hi all here is the next update, 12 of the lower deck cannons, not done much detail work on the carriages as they wont be seen, and done some of the deck furniture, next job to drill the holes out for the gun door ropes( that is going to take some time 104 guns X 2 208 holes then I have to try and think of a way to make the rings for the gun port doors for the ropes to go through.
(http://i.imgur.com/OkKJeKe.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/blrjN81.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GA2jb15.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vlzkE09.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hxKiAVk.jpg)
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Regarding small rings:
Heat the head of a dress makers pin and clip it off when cool (the heating takes the temper out of the steel saving your clippers:O)
Put the pin into your oldest and least important pin vice, or a length of dowel to make a handle.
Using a candle or similar small heat source, heat the pin and poke it into a piece of styrene sheet 1-2mm thick and remove. (remembering the fumes given off, so do it somewhere with ventilation) Repeat until the pin is too cool to push in properly.
You should now have a number of holes with little craters of plastic surrounding them.
Gently sand the best of these flat with some fine sand paper and slice them off the sheet. You should then have a selaction of plastic mini rings for various uses.
I found this as a by product of driving heated dress makers pins into thick styrene sheet to create rivetted armour panels on a 1:15th scale master back in the day.
If the rings are too big, you can do the same with thinner brass rod or piano wire put into a handle
Alternativly, wrap fine copper filament from electrical flex around a length of brass rod. (This is a miniaturised version of how chain mail rings are made but missing the rivetting process!)
http://metalsmithing.wonderhowto.com/how-to/make-chain-mail-armor-from-start-finish-0118499/ (http://metalsmithing.wonderhowto.com/how-to/make-chain-mail-armor-from-start-finish-0118499/)
Remove the coil from the rod and using a sharp scalpel blade, clip along the length of the coil and small copper rings will fall (well usually ping:O( off, so do it carefully and keep and eye on where they go as well as the cutting.
The ends of the rings will be slightly askew, so flatten them with something, like a small ruler or a piece of scrap pine 20/20mm is useful for loads of jobs on the work bench.
Either mthod will give you lots of wee rings that need a some care to handle but havng seen someof the work you have done, you know all about fiddly :-))
I promise you that I have used both processes over the years Ken.
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Thanks a bunch very helpful, I like the copper wire idea.
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Less smelly!
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Hi all here is the next update, I needed to drill the holes for the gun port doors ropes, but I wanted them all in the same place so I made a jig.
(http://i.imgur.com/rZNanFq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5uJGeQp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4q1lGDk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JUtxkks.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0WNVmSy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DHjqrno.jpg)
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I salute traditional ship modellers for their patience in working loads and loads of cables, knowing how to knot and when to splice etc:O)
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in the copper ring bit, why not use cling film stretched over a frame/desk, working under the film, this stretch film will act as a method of stopping the fiddle little copper rings of pinging all over the place and contain them for collection when finished whilst still able to see what you are doing.
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Hi all here is todays bit.
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Good show :-))
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Hi all here is the next update.
(http://i.imgur.com/qWqVqhs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5a0jL4Z.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8mJK7Bz.jpg)
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Hi all here is tonights bit, I've corrected another flaw of this kit There is a big gap in the knee of the head (which according to the experts would not hold the weight of the head and should have been filled with carvings of some sort ) here is the gap
(http://i.imgur.com/P3UsBfR.jpg)
and (since i'm no carver her is my fix, I know its not very elaborate but it fills the hole)
(http://i.imgur.com/nriOEe9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yCm6SRa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CfEYFtQ.jpg)
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It is still effective though Ken, and it fixes a honker of a flaw in the kit.
Good fix :-))
Watching that interior design show thisevening I was amazed to see one of the designers putting silver leaf up on a wall using PVA. I automatically thought of you and how you are using the proper materials and getting an excellent effect. I appreciate she had a budget and that they are all into distressed furniture and tromp l'oeil but you have the superior finish by far.
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I should think pva glue will cause the silver to tarnish isn't pva alcaline, may look good now but give it a couple of weeks.
Wouldn't matter on this as I'm using actual gold so not affected by alcaline
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The silver looked a bit tarnished now you mention it. Oops.
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Hi all here is my next update.
Anchor ropes made and some of the superstructure made
(http://i.imgur.com/FQ0T6fa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Fswaouo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oDjx7Ns.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TUm7Mqh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nyOqwF7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/d3kyg9D.jpg)
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Let the marathon rigging job begin.
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Oh I'm a long way off rigging.
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Hi all here is todays efforts. The rear galleries should be open (in fact even on the boxart they are open) so I've cut them out(very nail biting as one slip and I could have ruined them) now I just have to do the floor on the 2 galleries.
(http://i.imgur.com/mhsL4D0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rBKmcWz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XyatCyH.jpg)
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So what did the assembly instructions show the bow to look like compared to the actual kit, does it even show the bow detailed up?
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The instructions show the bow with the hole, this kit is notorious for its flaws, heller basically copied the incomplete model in the museum and some bits which were missing they either invented bits to go there or just left them out, hence the hole in the beak, I will correct what my megre talents allow but there are a lot I just don't have the skills to takle though.
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Hi all here is tonight update
(http://i.imgur.com/dzxJepB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/L3d8NAc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IalahBp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/71EZN8u.jpg)
Here is the thing they suggest you mount this beautiful ship on
(http://i.imgur.com/ky46ZbD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YWXfFv3.jpg)
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Hm, she is deserving of a fine piece of Oak or Elm to rest on.
The model is starting to look very majestic.
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Hi all here is the next update, I wanted to add some detail to the cannons which can be seen so, after a great suggestion from ballastankisan on how to make them I made some eyelets for the tie down ropes.
(http://i.imgur.com/Fsimvzc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gHE4JCj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2tobZQa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pkuKaPA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fplxai7.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2heCz92.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/a4JvC9X.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rokVE5b.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/H4PZ9uj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uYeWBiu.jpg)
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They look good Ken. I like your development of the idea by cutting them on the nail as then they do not ping away into the far distance o onto the carpet.
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Hi all here is the next update on this.
Made a little jig for putting the tie down rings in the same place every time.
(http://i.imgur.com/Qp8V3wV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ojND7Fq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4seT46y.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9Lf4jkm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/CyF6J5o.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PIvWHS5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1LJ32ZR.jpg)
yes I know I've missed some painting on the front of the decks but will sort that soon.
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The jig is a genius idea. Are the rings held in by a little interference pressure or some other way Ken?
You could write a book with all these good ideas for modellers.
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The slots are filled with white tack so the rings stick to that, as for a book it would,nt even make one Page.
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Hi all here is another update
(http://i65.tinypic.com/1dyp2o.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/oozwqa.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/wb9lys.jpg)
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Gorgeous work on the ropes for the guns Ken :-)) It is getting very detailed.
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Yes superb work, can't wait to start on mine, I'm fed up of painting marines ;)
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So are you populating this with crew, yours would be under twice as big as mine (22/24mm compared to 11/12mm). {-)
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Not seen any for this period of time in this scale or I would.
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Not seen any for this period of time in this scale or I would.
1/100th equates to wargamers and figure modellers call 15mm, AB figures are one of the best but all they do in that scale that would be suitable would be RN boat crews and Royal Marines http://www.fighting15sshop.co.uk/royal-navy-967-c.asp (http://www.fighting15sshop.co.uk/royal-navy-967-c.asp)
Seen in context now, the way you do your decks really works very well.
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Hi all well this kit comeso with no anchors for the boats so I've knocked some up, also there are no oars, I've checked a few builds not of the heller kits and they don't seem to have any either, were they stored below decks or should they be there.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/rmo2m1.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/16q8p4.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2r44hzp.jpg)
Sorry my build rate has slowed so much, but I get some done when I can fit it in and am not feeling too knackered.
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Coming along niecely. I assume the kit makers didn't bother, or ran out of budget when developing the kit. Maybe they did stow the oars below in oler days, but looking at Pre Dreadnoughts like Benbow, they were festooned with oars and spars etc.
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That is hard to belive it is a plastic kit. The deck is looking realy great :-))
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All boats carried in later years appear to have a tarp over them, when does this practice come into effect, if the boats had a tarp over them then anchors, oars etc would be hidden under them - wouldn't they?
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Okay, just a side enquiry, if I wanted to do the colour of the decks in a vintage pine or ash colour (pale whitey blue) what pastels or chalk colours would you recommend and in which order. :embarrassed:
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Hi all well still on this, not much to show, I seem to have lost any skill I had, this is looking so shabby, showed so much potential when I started it, I thought the wood effect was great (I know bit big headed but I did think it was a good effect) seems to have gone down hill since then, sorry.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/33jmels.jpg)
(http://i65.tinypic.com/29qihcm.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/28m3i9x.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/qyuwck.jpg)
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I can sympathise with losing the knack a bit when being away for a while, but still, did you use a bit ofbrown in your initial washes? Perhaps a small amount washed on over the black will modify the effect?
Don't dispair, you know your work is fab Ken :-)) :-))
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I know you will fix it when you get more time, kudos for your method of doing wood decks, it still looks superb to me.
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if that is downhill, cant wait for my skills to go downhill :)
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Hi all a tiny update really just to show I'm still on this (I know it's not great but I figure I can remove all the gold and redo it, if and when my mojo returns.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/x26o2e.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/28gw844.jpg)
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Hi all well since I've finished the 32 ford I'm tentatively back on this, the first thing I noticed(which when I put it away I didn't was the jib was quite a bit off centre, no amount of gentle twisting would straighten it so I bit my lip and cut it off.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/14kis85.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/rhtpwh.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/11b2ono.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/eqv2hd.jpg)
The guilding on the top rails was rubbish so that's been given another go, still not happy with it but will live with it for now also added a bit more deck furniture.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2j107rk.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/o54znk.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/am848h.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2qir6gz.jpg)
Removed some of the wash from the transom sort of better we will just have to see how I feel after I've lived with it for a while, I may still strip it, I'm feeling better about it anyway.
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That is good to hear Ken. Regarding your Bowsprit, sometimes you just have to be brutal and rip a bit off and repair it even if your brain is saying NOOO! She looks much better for it.
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Hi all here is another little update, that mast is not glued in yet just positioned to see the effect, I've seen where people do the ratlines on the upper masts before atattching the mast, to me it looks easier than having to try it whilst attached to the ship.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/okcqvd.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/20gd3ig.jpg)
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You are doing a fine job Ken. You will do best to rig your shrouds and ratlines after you step the masts. Detail is awe for this plastic model. I've built many in wood, plank on frame. For some reason in my old age, I have moved over to WW2 US Navy vessels. Best to you, enjoy the build. Dennis
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Hi all well this is certainly leagues more complex and detailed than any ship I've built not sure I'm upto rigging this, for instance all the pulleys attached it the mast and crows nest, I've barely started on this one mast, I take my hat off to anyone tackling this complex a rigging not sure I will stick the course, I've not found an easy way to tie the pulleys. The 4von this mast took 2 hours and a lot of swearing.
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2lo3h5g.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/juwq6x.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2cprn2e.jpg)
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At least you are giving it a go ken.
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Ken, you are doing fine.... rigging is best done from the inside out... don't let yourself get trapped to get at something, if possible. Make yourself some tools with thin dowel and brass rod to make a long hook or forked pushing and pulling tool. Those blocks can be stropped using alligator grip stands (like an extra pair of hands), just set one of the blocks in one side clip, loop your line around the block and leave a bitter end tail, clip the other pair of your line and then tie the line together close to the end of the block and sease or whip using thin thread, clip off the bitter end and you are ready. Their are many books out there on rigging. Good luck, Dennis
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Hi all, the rest of the cannons are fully visible so I've decided to try and detail them a bit more, there is no wood grain moulded in the plastic sides so I've scratched some lightly with my knife and tried painting and using pastels to get an wood effect, not worked as well as I'd liked but better than nothing, and when they are installed you probably won't even notice anyway.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/mjlkyg.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/30jtiy9.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/1zeli03.jpg)
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Hi Ken, they will be just fine. Rig them up with block and tackle as best you can on the visible ones. I built a Frigate and rigged the cannons fully on the second deck where you cannot see them. Only I know.. now that is getting a bit "xxxxx" I think. Whatever floats your boat as they say. Dennis
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Hi all these cannons are a bit tedious but I've done a bit more, not happy with them, they still don't look very realistic (each one is less than 1/2 an inch long, well the carriage is anyway), so I can't do much with them but I'm wondering weather the decking from the 1/72 revell flower class corvette would look good stuck on and stained what do you think.
(http://i67.tinypic.com/nfl1eu.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/nzqfs0.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/e85wub.jpg)
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Those cannon will be fine at that scale. Are you planning to rig them? On the deck, that is fine as long as the printed deck planks work for the scale of 1/100... it is probably close. You be the judge. I used wood printed decking on the WW2 cruiser I am building and it worked out just fine. Just keep on building, it will all come together and you will be happy. Dennis
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Hi all well i know I've not touched this for a while, Pam just snapped the fore mast, apparently she was just getting the dog a treat (the bag with the treats in was on the table with the kit) my fault entirely, she is so upset I'm more cross she even tried to, that's what I'm here for to get stuff, trouble is she thinks because she can make it to the loo and make a cuppa she can do anything, I love her to bits and can't wait for her to get better. Anyway when I do get back on this that will be the first thing for me to takle.
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In real life strong winds and battle damage all took their toll on ships rigging, so its just art recreating life!
As long as Pam is alright that is the main thing.
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Right after some good advice I may well get started back on this, I've just bought these 3 books (http://i.imgur.com/JwLl4iY.jpg)
So hopefully after a good read the rigging won't be sooooo scarey.
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'Model ships from scratch' by Scott Robertson is a good book with many illustrations and descriptive bits on wooden ship rigging and masts etc.
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You are coming along just fine. Rigging is always a challenge. Books are a real help. I use "Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1869" by Lees as my rigging bible. Attached is a shot of rigging on my Frigate I recently completed. Cheers! Dennis
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Thanks Dennis that looks awesome. I dream of being that good.
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Hi all well I'm back on this but with a change of attack, it's now going to be a water line model, I didn't like the ships boats on the deck (take up too much space and I don't believe the ship would have operated like that) so it will be towed along side something like this.
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/06/IMG_20170806_30941790347670.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/06/IMG_20170806_23805606540139.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/06/IMG_20170806_171062104736532.jpg)
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The boats would normally be stacked vertically in the waist. They would normally only be towed when the ship was cleared for action to stop them being destroyed. They would be towed behind the ship not alongside. Towing alongside would lead to damage as the boat would hit the hull due to the wake and wave action.
Jim
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The officer's furniture was put in one of the boats again to prevent it becoming shrapnel when hit by shot.
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Hi thanks guys I was going by this.
Quite right- ships in home waters would be easily provisioned from shore-based vessels, and the 17th Century English navy had a whole range of superbly named types such as Smaks, Galliots, Hoys, Pinks, Flyboats and Doggers for the purpose.
An English first rate of the 1670s would have had a Longboat (50ft), Pinnace (36ft) Skiff (27ft) and later on in the century, a jollyboat (19ft) too. How they were all stowed is still not really known as the records never bothered to indicate- as I said it appears a combination of beams or even spare topmasts could be rigged up on the discretion of individual captains- proper spar decks were in their infancy in this period, but not unknown and it appears Soleil Royale was fitted with something like this in the 1670s.
Remember, there was some reason for the longboats being such huge vessels- they were required to assist in maneouvering the ship, and the great size was partly dictated by the need to run out the Sheet anchor (the ship's largest, emergency anchor) which could weigh up to 3 tons and was perhaps as long as 18ft. Day to day, they were also used to replenish stores which are also very bulky. They were also expected to operate in all seas, under sail or oar. In times of battle ships' boats played a crucial role transferring messages and orders, and were actually part of the tactical operation- taking the ship under tow or bringing her head around in the case of damage to the sails. There are even some records of the boats been deliberately targeted- for example in 1673 Spragge's boat was sunk under him when attempting to transfer his flag from his damaged ship to another. All in all, they're an integral part of the ship's function!
[Album De Colbert- 1677- French 80 gun]
Just a thought- you could mount the longest boat on a separate stand, towed by the main ship? The tow rigging is quite simple- a line from the Stern quarter, and a steadying line running forwards to either the main mast chains or even the bulwark (the engraving I'm looking at isn't that clear). I don't think I've ever seen it done on a model.
Will
And since the base has been cut to size I'm stuck with it .
So.....
Which looks best sailing straight ahead or at a jaunty angle
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/08/IMG_20170808_5581516542785094824e.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/08/IMG_20170808_481141900730985.jpg)
Sorry there were pages from a book in the post I copied but they don't seem to have copied
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Ah. Yes. If she is being 'victualled' or taking on crew etc then indeed, the boat would be alongside. Ships are not always sailing are they!
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Nor are they permanently cleared for action either
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Hi all well I've detailed up one of the ships boats (I suppose that means I will have to do the other one now)here's the before
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_365292047381108.jpg)
Put the bathroom sealant on and started painting the tops of the waves
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_581151037344508.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_59951410528812.jpg)
Loads more wave painting to do.
I've removed a couple of the guns to load the supplies into I understand they used some sort of pulley system from the spars to load the supplies with and I want to depict that has anyone got any detailed drawings of how this was achieved.
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_127231456436880.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_198271531449681.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_285152241735.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_338191963158210.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/15/IMG_20170815_41539151616351.jpg)
I've only used one of the port and starboard anchors, I'm hoping the other two are spares, I can't imagine they used all 4 anchors or am I wrong.
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Very nicely rendered. I love the water technique. Great job! :-)) Dennis
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It looks great Ken. As for using the spars as a derrick, a capstan was used to lift and lower via pulleys. I could not find any images of this on t'interweb.
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There was a film on recently (well a couple of months ago) with Sir Alec Guinness, Dirk Bogarde and Antony Quayle, similar to a mutiny on the bounty style storyline - HMS Defiant or Damn the Defiant, in that film they used a spar from the main mast to lift supplies on board but I cannot find the clips to show it
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Thanks mate will have to try and find the film.
Hi all well I've finally finished painting the waved (That's a lot of water) not sure if it needs more colour, I'm trying for the dark brackish water of a harbour.
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/17/IMG_20170817_26303726235760.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/17/IMG_20170817_172641408542668.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/17/IMG_20170817_103861950040088.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/17/IMG_20170817_25701601888241.jpg)
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The chop adds lots of movement to the diorama and the reflection of the hull adds some depth as well.
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I concure, the water looks "alive", like swirling currents. Very nice sir. Dennis
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Here's the best that I have found so far, showing the use of the spard to lift a heavy weight. The two showing the lifting of a boat are quite clear but the third showing the lifting of a cannon was not so clear in the book.
Jim
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You are most correct on the method of hoisting ships boats and other cargo using lower main yards, block and tackle. Here is a picture of my Frigate build where I show a long boat hoisted on the same setup as your drawings. Dennis
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Thanks guys very helpful
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all well I've fixed the foremast and strengthened it with a rod up the middle, making it a waterline model had an unexpected problem to it the main mast locates in an I shaped piece which is glued to the bottom of the hull to keep the mast central and true since I cut the bottom of the hull off obviously that locating area was no longer there also the mast was a lot higher than it should have been, luckily I still had the bottom of the hull that I cut off so I put the mast in it laid a rule across the hull and marked where it cam on the mast and cut that piece off but the mast is tapered at the bottom and the holes through the decks must be the same size as when I put the mast in it Leaned either way so I had a cunning idea and wrapped masking tape round the bottom of the mast till it was a snug fit in the bottom hole ( only problem now is the mast seems to lean sternwards) so now I just have that problem to sort and of course to make sure it is square with the center line as well.
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/25/IMG_20170825_541811918564745.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/25/IMG_20170825_06301359996971.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/25/IMG_20170825_44524556179762.jpg)
(https://www.imageupload.co.uk/images/2017/08/25/IMG_20170825_361841280113573.jpg)
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Hi all well I've got this back out as Gandale (Alan on another forum posted an easy way to do the stays on this) (That's what's been scaring me from continuing this build) baring in mind this is my first attempt at doing them I'm quite chuffed with the result (obviously I've seen them done millions of times better but hey I can only get better from now on)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/15mlaqg.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/9qbp55.jpg)
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Hi all got this out to do some work on it. There seems to be a problem with the cheap paint I used on the base (Not had this problem before) the base started off dk blue but over time it seemed to go brackish
(http://i68.tinypic.com/34qjslj.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/33cmdud.jpg)
Which I didn't mind too much as it just looks like dirty harbour water but worryingly it is doing this from the edges and seems to be progressing inward
(http://i68.tinypic.com/9tk3rd.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/4v1fk1.jpg)
Do you think this will progress, if so should I stripp it all off (assuming I can) then start again, any suggestions.
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It looks like an amazing depiction of wind swept turbulent water before a storm.....remember the colour of the water was influenced by the sky.....
My vote would be to keep it as is :-))
Derek
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It does look very realistic Ken, I mean as real as I can remember seeing water created in larger scales.
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I think you are concern about the discoloring creeping in from the edges?? Possibly paint those areas to blend them in to the rest. Seal the edges somehow, epoxy or varnish? Frankly, I agree with the others, what you have looks very real. Cheers, Dennis
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Is it a change in paint colour? Looks possibly like it could have de-laminated?? If you tap the areas you might be able to tell if it sounds intact or a "dull" sound (parted)?
...if it's waterproof paint you could maybe add a drop of water from an edge, if the colour comes back I reckon it's maybe de-laminated somehow?
Rich
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It's not waterproof but even so I suppose I could thin it down and try that anyway. Thanks for all the reply.