Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: 3838Derrick on April 15, 2017, 11:29:12 am

Title: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: 3838Derrick on April 15, 2017, 11:29:12 am
I've been trying to run my TVR1AABB on steam but it stops after about 30 secs. My boiler is a "Heritage Steam" running at about 40 psi. Any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Plastic - RIP on April 15, 2017, 04:13:49 pm
Does it stop suddenly like a seize or does it slowly run down like it's running out of puff?
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: pipercub1772 on April 15, 2017, 04:21:45 pm
Have you tried running on air the engine may require running in, just a thought good luck
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Martin (Admin) on April 15, 2017, 04:45:03 pm
 
I don't know anything about steam engines ....... but have you tried running it on compressed air, to eliminate any heat issues?
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: SailorGreg on April 16, 2017, 07:47:33 am
Sounds like you are having a similar problem to me when I first ran my TVR1A.  I am not sure I can offer an instant solution but if you read my build log (link at the bottom of this message) from reply number 62 then you can see if we seem to be experiencing the same symptoms. If you haven't already done so, I would check your valve timing and make sure all your little screws are done up good and tight.  As asked before, have you run the engine on compressed air to run it in? I know that isn't simple if you don't have a compressor but in my case the engine ran perfectly on air but was initially very reluctant with steam. You do also need a period of bedding in to let all the various sliding and rotating bits settle down.
Good luck and keep persevering.  You'll get there in the end.

Greg
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: 3838Derrick on April 17, 2017, 06:35:48 pm

Thanks for all your suggestions. The engine runs a few seconds then gradually slows to a stop. I don't have the facilities to run it on air.  I think the valve timing may be a little out so I'll check that out first.
Derrick.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: SteamboatPhil on April 17, 2017, 07:03:56 pm
I agree with Greg, it is a pity you cannot check it on air, but as has been suggested that does not always equate to running on steam due to expansion of materials. You made need to run the engine in a little, the easy way is a cordless drill on slow speed connected to the engine, lots of oil, then try on steam.
Phil
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: KBIO on April 17, 2017, 08:34:49 pm
Hello!
Having this lovely engine, I noticed that the Hackworth reversing gears is very "touchy" and have to be reset often. Tricky though.
The linkages are a bit shaky after a while. It ends up by sticking the sliding valve against the wall, with no port for the steam to go = engine stuck!!!
If your engine has run with steam, there is no doubt that it will run with compressed air.
Maybe , someone can help as I have the same problem.
This engine runs good when it runs , but I must say that I lost some confidence. :embarrassed:
It will be interesting to know the number of people who are happy with this engine ..... or not! ok2


Regards.

Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: verithingeoff on April 28, 2017, 07:28:06 am
I had a TVR1A for a while, absolute pig to set the timing, but got there in the end. Sold it on a couple of years ago(http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag473/geoff122/Model%20Steam/Aust%20emos/ozzhatcorks_zpsyyfdobuw.gif) (http://s1375.photobucket.com/user/geoff122/media/Model%20Steam/Aust%20emos/ozzhatcorks_zpsyyfdobuw.gif.html)
Here's a vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmXxDTPKXt8
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: 3838Derrick on April 28, 2017, 05:27:12 pm
I think I've just about had enough of this engine. I can get it running sweet for about 1/2 an hour and then have to fiddle with the timing and reversing lever to get up and running again. I'm seriously considering selling it before I turn even greyer!!
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: 3838Derrick on April 28, 2017, 05:39:04 pm

Can anyone recommend a simpler engine to install in my 34" open launch.  I realise all steam plants need a bit of fettling but being disabled, I can't be fiddling about by the lakeside too much. I'd like to do all the messing about at home, go to the water, steam her up, and launch & go.  ( or am I asking too much)
Derrick
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 28, 2017, 06:00:36 pm
Richard Simpson, in his 'Boiler Room' series in Model Boats magazine has just commenced a short series of articles on 'affordable steam' for people who want to get into steam model boats as inexpensively and simply as possible.

The first part is in the May issue currently on sale.
http://www.modelboats.co.uk/news/article/model-boats-may-2017/25002

Worth a look I would think as he is likely to cover the selection of boiler and engine at a fairly early stage.

Colin
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: pipercub1772 on April 28, 2017, 06:43:01 pm
Hi you could try and get hold of a cheddar puffin engine although they are a oscillating engine they are pretty much fool proof or a john hemmens richmond engine both excellent and virtually trouble free  ,best of look.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Kevgarth on April 28, 2017, 07:10:19 pm
When running a steam engine on air PLEASE make sure the engine is well lubricated beforehand as the oil won't be passing through like it would if it was running on steam.


Regards
Kevin
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 28, 2017, 07:41:43 pm
However good an installation you have, I do get the impression that steam powered models inevitably involve a degree of fiddling about at the pondside. You will never get the switch on and go facility you have with electric powered models.

Colin
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: ooyah/2 on April 28, 2017, 09:03:45 pm
Can anyone recommend a simpler engine to install in my 34" open launch.  I realise all steam plants need a bit of fettling but being disabled, I can't be fiddling about by the lakeside too much. I'd like to do all the messing about at home, go to the water, steam her up, and launch & go.  ( or am I asking too much)
Derrick





Derrick,
I am sure that this engine will satisfy all your needs, it's a very powerful engine operated with 1- servo to control forward, reverse and speed control and will power your launch with power to spare.


I made the engine from a set of Stuart castings and completed it last week and it runs on very low pressure 10 p.s.i. with a max pressure of 25 p.s.i. and the valve at the boiler opened 1 Turn.


You can view the engine on Stuarts web site and it's £275 + V.A.T. for you to assemble.
Engine is 7/16" bore x 7/16" stroke. output shaft is 5/32" dia.


If you are interested P.M. me and I will swap it for your T.V.R.


George.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: steam up on April 29, 2017, 06:17:12 am
I have run a TVR for a number of years now and set up four other engines for friends.
Yes the Heckworth gear is a pain to set up but once done should need no further fiddling.
Common issues include the settings changing because the motion bar moves,thread lock is the answer.
A second less common issue (I have seen it twice) is that the retaining block on the valve spindle moves. This is glued in place ( a design fault I feel) It is worth checking this as when the engine warms up it can slip this might explain why it runs  fine then the timing does to hell and a basket. The answer is to carefully silver solder these in place then do the setting up.
Don't give up on this little engine (yet)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8kvElTS8CA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DavyjnH_nM8
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Geoff on May 02, 2017, 01:59:06 pm
As an observation I've been running a Cheddar models Puffin unit for about 15 years now and it really is "plug and play". Its never let me down other than when there is a blockage in the gas jet which reduces gas flow. Its pretty nearly the ideal engine to start with and it just works every time!


Cheers


Geoff
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: xrad on May 02, 2017, 04:18:31 pm
get one of these:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Twin-Cylinder-Marine-Steam-Engine-Fully-Machined-Kit-8M-/130436266815?hash=item1e5e9b7b3f:m:mKqa6qSg0IUFTyyu-nizkFQ


Best engine for the money. Super easy to assemble. works very well when hot at most rpm ranges. Does require a bit of steam, so if you have a small boiler, may need to upsize.  I have one in my 40 in steam launch.


Also: Even though I was very careful in building the gear for the TVR, I had it backwards.  Since corrected,  it runs superbly well on  30-40 PSI to start, and then 20 PSI when hot.  I have the BB version, which takes less break-in.   Also, it runs better  in one direction (in my case this is forward) than the other, but both work well enough when hot. 
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: steam up on May 02, 2017, 04:21:59 pm
The Hackworth gear is notorious for set up problems regarding running in reverse but who wants to go full speed astern anyway  :o
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: KBIO on May 02, 2017, 05:51:44 pm
Hello!
If I understand, the TVR is an excellent engine which needs attention and some adjustments from time to time. :-)
I must say that I find the material a bit thin & soft , and the screws too much : "watch maker type".
Considering what we ask to this engine , which has a surprising good torque by the way, this is may be part of the worries that some of us, have.
I know some people ( on this Forum also) who re-machine some parts. And that is positive. But still, those Hackworth reverse gears are as much delicate as a young lady , and a bit  "tricky" to rely on. Good on train though!


Talking of Cheddar, or some similar engine, I totally agree with Geoff! O0

Its pretty nearly the ideal engine to start with and it just works every time!
When I am invited at a meeting and for not looking too ridiculous, I sail some boat with Cheddar or Anton, then.
No sweat! I sail all day long! At least, as long as there is some  beer  :P
But sometime, I still look ridiculous, because I forgot my transmitter. :embarrassed:
Thanks for reading.
Regards.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: 3838Derrick on May 07, 2017, 09:08:05 pm
Swapped the TVR with ooyah  (Thanks mate). Had it up and running in a couple of hours!  Perhaps, as a complete beginner. I think the TVR was just a bit too complicated for me.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: steamboatmodel on May 07, 2017, 11:35:36 pm

I think you got a great deal in the swap. The oscillator may use a bit more steam then the Tvr, but will be more forgiving on setup.
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: rhavrane on May 08, 2017, 08:36:15 am
Bonjour,
The TVR1A is a 8 cm3 and the Cheddar is a 4,31 cm3 ==> it will be less powerful but will use less steam, which is good thing for autonomy with the same boiler  :-))
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: steamboatmodel on May 08, 2017, 01:02:28 pm

Bonjour,
The TVR1A is a 8 cm3 and the Cheddar is a 4,31 cm3 ==> it will be less powerful but will use less steam, which is good thing for autonomy with the same boiler  :-))
For those of us still using the old imperial system
Stuart Twin Oscillator[font=]Engine is 7/16" bore x 7/16" stroke[/font]
The Graham Industries TVR1A is a twin-cylinder, reversing steam engine with 1/2” diameter bore by 5/8” stroke.
Yes the TVR1A is larger in bore and stroke, but I feel that the Oscillator engine will still use more steam. It would be interesting if someone had both to do a comparison.
Gerald.
 
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: steam up on May 08, 2017, 03:22:29 pm
A friend has fitted both a TVR and a Cheddar steam engine to his Victoria steam boat. The oscillator lasted two sailing sessions before it was replaced with the TVR which had twice the power and better steam consumption.
As for the TVR needing continual adjustment I have not found this to be the case. Yes they can be a pain to set up but once set they do not require constant fiddle. In three years I have replaced one set of O rings.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: Jerry C on May 08, 2017, 05:22:25 pm
I have to agree with Steam Up. Assemble aTVR correctly and it'll run great. No further adjustment needed. I have had a couple of issues with mine in 5 years of use but they were both my fault.
I found the instructions clear , concise and understandable.
His communications leave a lot to be desired but when I ordered a new valve drive rod with an explanation he sent three, free of charge by return of post. He never seems to answer an email.
Jerry.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: KNO3 on June 18, 2017, 08:02:26 am
Hi, I've had my TVR1A for several years and no trouble at all. I haven't used it in a boat though, just ran it on air and steam once in a while.
I feel it is a very good engine (especially for the money). However it is not the ideal beginner engine (if you buy the kit version, which I did), because  it is rather complicated to build and adjust. You mechanical skills will reflect in the running of the engine. And you need to make sure parts won't work loose and upset the timing. Loctite them in once you have found the right setting.
I also have to say that all kit parts fit very well, without any problems. After some running in on a drill, the engine ran very smooth and controllable.

Regarding twin oscillating engines: they are the closest a steam engine can get to "plug and play". Simple, reliable and well suited for beginners.
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: xrad on June 23, 2017, 06:02:58 pm
Locktite is absolutely needed for the screws of the valve-gear. The will work loose. I do wish they made the valve gear parts in bronze or brass,  but I never had any trouble with the aluminum pieces.  I would not want to have to remove the loctite'd screws so make sure everything is where u need it before locking into place.


It is a great kit to build.  Several good meditation hours....
Title: Re: engine runs for a few seconds then stops
Post by: steam up on June 23, 2017, 07:27:31 pm
Thread lock does the job fine and I agree it is a must