Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: timpars on July 09, 2018, 10:44:48 pm
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I have just been given this kit as a gift. It is my first foray into wooden boats (I'm coming from plastic kits).
To begin with it's ok but after installing the frames into the keel and fitting the deck, the next instruction is 'Sand the frames to fit theshape of the hull'. What shape? No doubt obvious, but not to me.
Help please {:-{
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Hi, Timpars
the next instruction is 'Sand the frames to fit the shape of the hull'. What shape? No doubt obvious, but not to me.
I can understand this. It is trying to say sand the edges of some of the frames so that they allow the planking (or sides) to fit in a natural curve. I have done a swift sketch to try and explain what is meant.
A Thames barge is basically a shoe box shape with more-or-less pointy ends, so the middle frames need no attention. But where the bow and stern start tapering, then the frames need to be sanded to allow the planking to lie against the whole width of the frame.
(on a ship with more shape - say, HMS Victory - most of the frames apart from the midships one have to be tapered so that all the planking lies snugly)
How do you do it? well pin a thin plank in position along the middle frames - pull it in at the bow and stern (fix with tape or rubber band) and see, and mark the shape it is trying to be. sand frames as marked till the plank lies sweetly.
simples!
Are you building her as a display model or for sailing?
Hope this helps a bit
andrew
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Andrew
Thanks, this is just what I needed. I rdhad a feeling that this was the case but didn't want to start sanding until I knew :-))
Perhaps someone should write a better set of instructions :police:
This gives me the courage to proceed.
Thanks again
Tim.
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The other thing to think about before you start attaching any planks, is how they will be attached to the stem of the boat.
Looking at the model you will need to cut a rabbet into the stem to hold the ends of the planks. Do this first before you start fairing (cutting) the ends of your frames. As it will affect the angles.
You may also need to think about pre-bending the planks at the bow end. It sounds more complicated than it is. Have a look at the woodcare section on here http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,109.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/board,109.0.html) and look for planking and bending threads.
Also, have a look in the Master class section on the main board of Mayhem
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Perhaps someone should write a better set of instructions :police:
Tim.
Billings "instructions" are notoriously poor. They are sketchy at best and tend to vanish when things get tricky. You may not have noticed yet, but there is no help when it comes to rigging Will Everard :o
Barrie
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I think that it will be some time before I get to rigging {-) . Maybe I'll be back for more help then <:(
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Hi, Tim
Glad you can see the next step or two. Plenty of help and advice available from the assembled mayhemmers
I forgot to say in my earlier post - have a search for "Will Everard build logs" and you will find several illustrated build logs - including, I think one on Mayhem.
From these I see that your kit has the two halves of the hull made separately and glued together later. If you are going to make it a sailing model there is a bit of thinking to do before going too far. If you are making a static model - no problem.
Not much rigging to a Thames barge, but a new language to learn. Many of the parts of a TSB have unique and splendid names, as you will find.
Almost forgot - the magic word is AMBO (Association of Model Barge Owners) They are very helpful, but at present I am not sure how to get in touch with them - the website seems to be under construction.
regards,
andrew
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Thanks Andrew, it's nice to know that out there in the modelling universe there is a wealth of advice and help to be had.
My model will be static so no additional worries there :-))
Regards Tim.
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Does anyone have a 'map' of the plastic parts sprue@ I know some will be obvious but I fear not all {:-{ Thanks
Tim.
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Yes - I do. I will scan and post tomorrow if that is OK.
Barrie
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Tomorrow is fine, thanks very much.
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Tim,
I can also email the scan if you prefer - PM me your email address.
Barrie
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I'm having a bit of trouble identifing a couple of parts.
The book shows them as 1 of 1.8x4.450mm part number 22 and calls them formed parts. I can't see anything in the box that's 'formed' so do I have to make it up and if so does anyone have more dimensions.
Sorry to be 'ignorant' but this is all new to me {:-{
Tim.
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Tim
They are the pieces that sit on the rails from the stem. I think they are called breakwaters.
Cut the piece of 1.8 mm x 4 mm wood in two and bend to fit, then shape the ends,
They are not formed - at least in my kit.
Hope this helps.
Barrie
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Thanks Barrie, now I uncerstand. Takes me back to when I used to work with typewriters many many years ago. The instruction in the manual would say 'form gently' meaning BEND :embarrassed: Another query. I'm trying to isolate part number F491 or strangely B2-68. It fits on top of the assebly of 44A and B. Cornwall model boats don't list it and neither as far as I can see do Billing themselves. Can anyone give me a clue?
Thanks in advance.
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Tim
B2-68 is described as a vent. It appears to be a brass fitting, but what it looks like I am not sure. My kit had a sheet of pictures of these fittings, but the quality is such that after many copies on a copier with poor resolution, you cant actually tell what shape most of them are!!! I have a brass piece that is about 4 mm long with a domed top. I haven't found anywhere this should definitely go and was intending to see if it fits on the skylight %)
44 in my kit was a shaped piece of wood onto which fits the two plastic pieces marked O on the sprue photo I sent you.
Barrie
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Thanks again Barrie
I think I figured that one out. I think you are correct about the section that you describe.
In my kit 44 consists of 5 laser cut sections that have to be glued together to then accept the two plastic parts.
Another part I'm struggling with is F694/1 with mounts on the assembled 44 etc. Again no mention in the book and the only thing close is the 2mm by 100 brass rod which I believe is part F410-10 but I haven't discovered where that is supposed to go yet. >>:-(
Tim.
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Tim
No F694/1 in my list. F694/2 is a length of Aluminium wire that is bent over F44. I haven't got as far as fittings yet - I am still painting the hull etc before mounting the cabins etc.
Barrie
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Your kit is clearly a bit different to mine.
As a newbie to wood modelling I'm waiting on a few things to be delivered so I'm filling in time making some of the extras. The bent piece over 44 in mine is brass wire. The piece I want identify sticks up from 44 with a vent on top
Thanks again for help anyway, nice pics by the way.
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Tim
I'll check tomorrow - the computer is not in the workshop. I do have the parts list her as I have been trying to identify and sort all the fittings.
Barrie
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Tim,
Does this diagram help? Interestingly the drawing shows F694/1 and the parts list has F694/2 which is aluminium wire. F39 shown on the drawing is brass wire.
Barrie
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Hi, intrepid barge-builders
Tim, some of the questions seem to suggest that you do not have the "plans" for this boat issued by Billings
They are heavily larded with copyright notices, so I will not copy and paste, but they are available here
http://billingboats-direct.com/estore/product_info.php/billing-boats-b601-will-everard-sailing-barge-model-boat-fittings-p-601 (http://billingboats-direct.com/estore/product_info.php/billing-boats-b601-will-everard-sailing-barge-model-boat-fittings-p-601)
and for all their failings they do at least have assembly pictures with part numbers
F694/1 is the stove chimney - it has a top piece B2/16 (??) and is prolly a length of wire or tube with a couple of bend
B2/68 is some sort of mushroom vent and fits next to the chimney pipe (page 11 of the instructions)
Incidentally, you are not there yet, but the rigging instructions contain one glaring error which would cause you to scratch your head and leap to the forum. On page 14 the spar labelled Bowsprit is in fact the Sprit (pronounced spreet) that holds up the top outer end of the sail. This particular barge does not have a bowsprit, but like all Thames barges it is a Spritsail barge
Going back to your original query about the pieces called 22. The parts list says they are 1.8 x 5 obechi wood and they are shown on page 7 of the instructions. They are sort of handrails (footrails?) and fitted at bow and stern on top of the planked sides, so they will need a bit of bending (forming). cut to size, soak in boiling water and gently wrap round something curved. Hold in place till dry with rubber bands, PVC tape or anything else that will hold it in place
Viola! Formed handrails
Hope this helps
andrew
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Andrew
Many thanks for all the useful info.
I do have the plans, that is the building instructions as issued by Billings. However therein lies the problem (or the problems).
Part F694/1 is not mentioned in the parts list and there is no piece in the kit that looks like that. The only piece that I have that could be made into that (and Billings seem to like you to do a lot of 'making') is a piece of brass rod 2mm by 100mm listed as F410-10. I have yet to find where that might be used so may make that into F694/1. If I find later on that I need this I should be able to get some from my local model shop. There seem to be several instances where this sort of ambiguity arises which does make working on the model more difficult. Also the dual marking using B numbers that (sometimes) match up to F numbers, what's that all about?
As for the handrails, I was overthinking that and just trying to sort out the different sized pieces of timber. Thanks for that anyway.
The rigging tip is also very useful I will make a note in my instructions to that effect because by the time I get to that stage I will surely have forgotten.
There seem to have been several different versions of this kit over the years (?) which also complicates talking to those who have already built it.
However all the help that I am getting is very gratefully received and I am heartily glad to found the forum. O0
Tim.
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AndrewNow I'm really puzzled.Folowing up your point about the bowsprit being the sprit I wanted to make sure i understood the implications. Now you will have to bear with my current lack of nautical knowledge but on inspecting the full size plan of the boat, part number 56 (the Bowsprit) is shown as projecting from the bow as i would expect a bowsprit to do, rather than supporting the top edge of the mainsail. Am I going completely mad?
Tim.
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Tim,
I would agree that Will has a bowsprit!!
I have emailed some photos of the skylight as built by me - not saying this is correct mind you %) %)
My version of the kit has absolutely NO rigging instructions! I will have to check the online version again to see if that does.
Barrie
MODS - perhaps this thread should be moved to another section?
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Thanks Barrie that's roughly how I've built mine.
Tim.
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Apologies, Tim and others
No, you are not going mad. You are quite correct
I failed to ensure brain was in gear before engaging mouth writing finger.
Yes, Will has a bowsprit. I had not looked at any pictures except the photos in the instructions - which all show the bowsprit raised for docking.
Sorry for any confusion
andrew
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Hi here is a pic of my long finished model of Will Everard. She is built to the same scale as yours but scratch built in wood from doubled up drawings of a 24" long table top model set of plans.Yes it definitely does have a bowsprit !
Mike
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One from a slightly different angle :
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Barrie (or anyone)Small point.
Did you cut out below the skylights on the cabins?Not sure if it's worth it as there is no interior to display.
Tim.
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No Tim. I painted the insides black %) I often do this with windows when there is nothing to see inside. I haven't glazed them yet but when I do I will use some 2mm mahogany to make frame.
Barrie
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Hi, first posting on this site but really need some guidance, wife and daughters bought the Will Everard for me last year and after a bit of a struggle have completed the hull and most of the painting. It was then put away for the summer and I am now trying to get my head around the fitting the rudder and upper deck.
I am really confused by the instructions (lack of), the instructions for the rudder refer to F39 brass wire according to the legend in the manual. I have a coil of copper wire but no brass wire !. I am finding it very difficult to identify the parts.
On the plastic parts it refers in the instructions to F823/i or other letter but can’t find any lettering on the framework.
Would be very grateful for any tips or advice on best way forward other than binning it and getting a simpler model.
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Hi Malfen,
Regarding the Rudder, brass rod and brass sheet to make the Rudder and Brass Tube to fit the Rod.Or if you don't want to solder the rudder together then you could use Styrene/ Plasticard enclosed over a Brass Rod shaped rudder.
A lot of info can be had from looking at the AMBO Web Site.
Good Building.
Len.
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Thanks very much Len, I have discovered that I am missing f663 and f39 brass wire which has been causing me a bit of confusion!!! Hopefully will be able to get these items and progress a little further
Thank
Malc
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Malc
I have a diagram of the plastic sprue supplied by another member of the forum. However the file is too big to attach here. If you let me know your email I will forward it to you.
Tim.
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Tim,
Thanks for the offer but Barrie on the site has very kindly forward them to me.
Many thanks
Malc