Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Radio Equipment => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on September 17, 2007, 08:01:39 pm
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Right lads ( and all other denominations required for legal reasons! ;) )
Bradders and I were having a chat at the weekend about this thread.... well I say "chat" but truefully I was being "talked at!"
.... anyway, we were conversing the failings of transmitters for us model boaters,
as most transmitters are aimed at the 'fly boys' and therefore maybe not the best layout for us.
So:
A. What do we really want in a transmitter hand control?
B. What the best you have used?
C. What the best you've seen?
Can we come up with a better / theoretical design for:
1. Simple 2 channel setup.
2. 2 / 3 channel for the race boys.
3. Multifunctional setup for the Tug / merchant ship boys.
4. Multifunctional setup for the Battleship boys.
Your thoughts, comments, ideas, criticisms please......?
When we've decided on any great ideas.... we'll get Bluebird FLJ or PMK to build it!
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I don't see that there is much you can do with two channel sets however, I would like to see an onboard, easy, way to convert the throttle (unlike Ghost I prefer mine on the left but hey whatever floats your boat :D )from self centre to ratchet and back again.
Being a stick in the mud I don't like the car type with wheel and trigger - but that's just me.
I have a 6 channel set but only use 3 at the moment so necessity hasn't become a mother yet.
Just my euros worth
Doug
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Right, here goes.
As everyone will know I am the Forum Moron on all things electrical BUT,
I would like to see adjustable proportional control, by that I mean fast reaction to rudder (and throttle ) inputs for fast electrics and sail and scale reaction to inputs when I am playing WHOOPS sorry sailing my tugs.
Someone is now going to tell me that we already have this - see, I told you I was a moron.
Cheers
Clegg
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Yes, we do already have these things on the mid to upper market sets. They are called Dual Rate and Exponential Controls. See aircraft related description for a Futaba set below.
No, it doesn't make you a moron. If you don't ask you won't find out. Have a Google around on "Radio Control Exponential" and see what you can find.
Colin
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* Dual rates and exponential. These functions are controlled by using the dual-rate function screen. Only elevator and ailerons have the dual-rate function, and when you flip the switch, they are activated simultaneously. You can toggle between high rates and low rates. When you initially set the model up, be sure to set the endpoint adjustment (EPA) first because this will affect the throw distances. You could inadvertently set either or both of the dual-rate values at 0, in which case, that channel would not respond. Avoid dropping below 20 percent on any dual-rate value.
The exponential is in the same function window as the dual-rate settings; again, this works only on the elevator and ailerons. Negative exponential (-) decreases initial servo movement while positive exponential (+) increases initial servo movement. You can set the exponential curve at anywhere between -100 percent and +100 percent. This is one function you will really want to try. It will smooth your plane's control response by preventing your jittery thumbs near center stick from inadvertently affecting its flight path.
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What I would like to see is the manufacturers finally realising that there is life beyond blooming AIRCRAFT why the heck they cant do a ins booklet aimed at boats or is it a fact they don't know that boat modelers exist
Stavros
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Been thinking about this for the Gry - come up with a scheme for RC that I was thinking about for the auxiliaries....
433MHz licence exempt or 2.4GHz - 433MHz, a transciever set will be about £40 a pair - 2.4GHz will be more. Anciliaries as a set of simple PIC based modules. The scheme I have got in my mind would allow for customised layout and selection of components to suit specific applications.
It would also provide telemetry - so you could get feedback of things like shaft speed or load current. Would anyone be interested in fleshing out some ideas?
Wom
PS Out of contact till Friday - gotta go abroad with work.
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I am happy with the layout of my old Futaba Challenger Transmitters.
But if being picky, could make it expandable with sliders/switches as the F14.
And a switchable mixer between channels 1,2 and 3.
Oh yes and a higher capacity battery.
Bob
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I don't think that the electronic side of things would be too much of a problem. There are some very serious teccies among this Forum's membership (no - NOT ME!!). However, the VERY limited number of sets which would be sold c/w the vast market for cars and aircraft gear would render such a set almost impossibly expensive to manufacture from a hardware point of view...
"Hello. Is that Mr Futaba? It's Mr Jacket from Nottingham here...........no.......Nottingham........in England............You know? Robin Hood, Brian Clough, Smith and Wesson.........yes - that Nottingham! I wonder if you'd be good enough to supply me with twenty transmitter cases with stick units, please? When I've sold them all I'll come back next year for twenty more......... Do you do Pay Pal, by any chance?"
Does anyone remember Launch Link radio? British-made; Swiss servo motors with metal gears (in 1970!!); servo amplifiers built into the Rx, which was the size of a brick; a black stove-enamelled Tx case with metal stick units to die for - and a price tag to match. No? Want to know why? Cheap "aircraft" sets killed it stone dead. Lovely set of gear, but very few would pay the price - £150-ish for a two-channel 27MHz AM set, if I recall. Mr Ripmax was flogging 6 channel Futaba sets with four servos, a full set of 12 crystals and frequency flags, all Nicads and a built-in charger for £125 at the time.
Come back, Idris Francis - at least seven UK boat modellers need you..... and a few more, maybe, if you'll stump up the tooling costs yourself and agree to customise every set.....
Dream on, guys. Meantime, welcome to Planet ARTF.
FLJ 8)
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FLJ,
Unfortunately I have to agree with you there.
We do have a more recent example - Fleet.
Just not the market for a small manufacturer offering mass produced prices.
Bob
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The thing is - we've been brought up to think that sticks for planes and boats (or a wheel for cars) is the only way to go.
I wonder why, when kids (or anyone) wants to make a character on a screen run left or right, jump, somersault, wield a sword, etc, etc, they use a banana with buttons on it!
Maybe it is time to write to Mr Futaba - if anyone has a tried and tested alternative. Ah - but there's the rub - how do you know what will work until you've tried it? Well, maybe Mr Futaba's R & D department might LIKE to receive a nice letter of suggestions!
Me - I'd like crystal free, with add-on's for telemetry, a decent battery indicator, a third channel where I don't have to let go of one of the other two to operate it, WATERPROOF, and doesn't feel like your holding a biscuit tin! Not much to ask!!
Danny
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1. FM modulation on 40mhz, lets leave the 27mhz to the rtr stuff that way we sont affect the low-end of the market when we switch on close to them.
2ch set: throttle and rudder (obviously) but to have an in-built mixing program that can be turned on to accommodate multiple motor configurations. two options, standard case with a vertical and horizontal slides. manual end point adjust for both channels.
Backlit display giving model memory and battery status.
3 channel set up will be like the standard 2ch BUT with a proportional knob for the third channel.
For the racing guys, pistol grip radio. Perhaps a device that transmits critical telemetry back to the operator, for those using IC (yes you nutters), this may be like a fuel guage in a car, when the models fuel is running down, it transmits data back to the transmitter to give readouts of the fuel status so you know when you need to pit-in. electric racers probably wont need it as the battery dies you will see the model slow down. hearing a beeper against the loud zing of a piston engined boat isnt gonna be easy. to alert the operator, perhaps a playstationesque vibration motor in the pistol grip.
Multi function radios for the battleships and tugs, this is where things get interesting.
to start with you would probably want to have 2 dual-axis sticks, with programmable elevon type mixing on BOTH sticks, to cater for left and right handed users, currently most that I know of just have elevon mixing on the right stick. its this elevon mixing that enables motor mixing for differential thrust to be used allowing a model to spin.
across the top of the radio, 4 knobs to allow for the operation of turrets, with two flick switches on the case for things like navigation lights. with those who like to actually fire BB's from their guns, perhaps having the knob depress to launch a salvo. for tugs and the likes, replace the knobs with 3 position switches.
Backlit displays would be a must.
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Trouble is with the F14 its pushing the band width when you start adding two or three of those modules and at about £65 for the TX side and £150 for the corresponding RX module it gets expensive and its a bit crude and has been around for yonks , I should know I got one of the first ones in the country way back in the late 80's. Then there's wiring up your functions to the rx module which uses - (negative) switching and according to the instruction you use a servo type lead couple the red & black together and connect your load across those two and the white, now to the faint hearted this is going to feel totally wrong and remember those internal switching components can only handle about 200 milli amps so any more than a couple of grain of wheats and your going to have to employ a relay of some sort, it all gets very complicated very quickly and puts people right off. Then on the F14 you have to remove the back to change crystal and perform servo reverse.
What we need is a cross between Pandals system, FLG's power distribution board (with some relays) and the new crystaless 2.4 gig, with simple dual axis sticks with servo travel adjust & servo reverse, a mixer for rudder throttle (for twin screw jobs) a row of say 4 on/off, 2 spring action return to off on/off and 2 on/off/on and a row of 6 proportional knobs and a couple of vernier sliders, a nice backlite LCD (in cool green or blue) and toggle this to a screen for you onboard skippers camera view and some add on telemetry and I'll be like a pig in s**e. :D
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Actually, I wasn't thinking about the electronics, more the layout of the sticks / controls / sliders / switches etc.
All I was thinking of was getting a couple of squeezy bottles, a roll of sticky back plastic, some old newspapers and a tub of PVA glue ( water proof ), making up a box that feels good and the controls are where we want them and maybe ripping the guts out of a commercial transmitter to see how it works! The electronics have already been done by all the big commercial companies ( Futaba, JR, Spektrum, Sanwa, HiTec ), especially 2.4Ghz. so it maybe just a matter of matter of replacing the pots etc. with matching values.......... and no I don't want to full around with the RF circuits! Glynn Guest did a great series a few years back called 'Transmitter Trickery' if anyone remembers it!?
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Just buy a Futaba FF9 less module and get the fast system, all the knobs and bells rates you would ever want and Prob cheaper than a twenty year old designed F16/18 tea tray
Peter
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Take the transmitter you get, and put it in the box you want.
One fo the locals here did that...
I have my own preferances for dual side by side sticks... ::)
And the odd button and sliders...
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What I would like to see is the manufacturers finally realising that there is life beyond blooming AIRCRAFT why the heck they cant do a ins booklet aimed at boats or is it a fact they don't know that boat modelers exist
Stavros
Stavros I could not agree more ! I have a Spektrum DX7 which is (in my opinion ) just about perfect - but for a non techie to decipher airo instructions into what we as boaters want the set to do takes some serious head scratching !
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I am using the two stick aircraft radios (2.4Ghz) for my scale boats now. I still use pistol grip radios for my racing boats. As for using pistol grip radios only for racing, Ghost, well it seems strange to me but the European car racing guys use stick radios! Here in the states we use pistol grip wheel radios. I guess it just depends on what you learn with.
The new computer aircraft (well actually, no longer aircraft specific) 2.4Ghz radios have so much adaptability you can just program them for hwat you need. But yes, I agrre having some different physical switch types would be an improvement. I don't always want a single throw toggle switch, I don't always want a three postion toggle switch, and I don't always want a rotary knob. I would love it if I could order my radio with the exact switches I wanted.
For working boats, I would like a radio that has dual throttle sticks on the left, and a wheel for steering on the right. Why should it have to be a stick on the right? And I would not want the wheel spring loaded. I would want it to remain where I left it.
My radio would have rotary knobs for the fire monitors swing and sliders for the fire monitors elevation. Momentary push buttons for the horns and alarms. Toggle switches for the lighting. A left-right stick for the bow thruster.
It also would have an audible count up-count down timer, and an audible low battery alarm.
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I'm not sure about the rest of the crew here, Umi Ryuzuki, but that Tx in your first photo really caught my eye. It's HUGE, but it's brilliant. How many channels are there on the encoder? I tried counting all the knobs and switches and lost count after eleven.
To me those are REAL nice radios.
Nice website, too.
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I'm not sure about the rest of the crew here, Umi Ryuzuki, but that Tx in your first photo really caught my eye. It's HUGE, but it's brilliant. How many channels are there on the encoder? I tried counting all the knobs and switches and lost count after eleven.
To me those are REAL nice radios.
Nice website, too.
That "monster" radio box is actually just a Four Channel Futaba case mod by Bob Pauliny. 8)
He is using an MCD(Model Control Devices (http://www.modelcontrol.com/)) switch 8 or 16 for alot of the functions.
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I have little trouble with my "Fleet 7" or my much extended "F14 Navy". Maybe it is what you get used too. I prefer ratchets and sliders and "on/off" switches that give a good "clunk" so you know where you are.
However, I do think cases need to be more ergonomic. The trend seems to be curves to make the thing look attractive. I want a stable box which hangs from a neck strap and another strap to go around my waist.
If I am really fantasising, how about voice activated? Just imagine standing beside the lake...."Full ahead both", "20 degrees port" etc. Not as far fetched as it seems, my PC has a voice activation software package which does everything (not just dictation) but I do get funny/disastrous results sometimes.
Roger in France.
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Well, a couple of things spring to mind.
Firstly - that aerial. The natural tendency is to hold the tx comfortably in front of you. Which means that the aerial is more-or-less pointing towards the boat. We all know that's wrong.
So why not a seperate aerial - let's have it vertically mounted on a stand, stuck on the ground. And while we're at it, put like the bulk of the tx there, too, running off a substantial battery that doesn't need to be carried. Use bluetooth for a wireless connection from a small ergonomic hand controller to the tx. Range for these is good for a couple of dozen metres or so.
Secondly - channels, crystals and bandwidth. Imagine the internet working in that way? "Sorry - you can't log on, we've got a couple of dozen users online. Please try again later, or swap your crystals." So how about ONE frequency, with a nice fat bandwidth, and the only thing a user does is assign a password for his controller and boat. Packets of info from all users are sent from the tx, and vessels only decipher and use the ones that are directed at them.
How big's a packet? Well, let's assume a servo requires a kilobyte of data - 1024 steps is enough for anyone. Add in the ability to control 10 servos per vessel. Password data, checksums - call each packet 12 kilobytes, uncompressed. Of course, lossless compression can bring this total down, and only sending variations in state can reduce it further. Let's send these 1kb (?) packets fifty times a second. That gives us 800 models on the 40MHz frequency, nearly 10000 on 459MHz. :o
Andy
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So why not a seperate aerial - let's have it vertically mounted on a stand, stuck on the ground. And while we're at it, put like the bulk of the tx there, too, running off a substantial battery that doesn't need to be carried.
Talk about what goes around coming around. Is anyone else old or daft enough to remember the very first R/C sets? Yep! Ground-based transmitters with a big vertical aerial and a hand-held device for signalling - in this case it was usually one industrial microswitch that you could hear "click" from the next field.
One thought struck me as I looked at those wierd transmitters was how few actual proportional channels are used. Most of the buttons on the big job are just that; on/off switches. As I've never seen the real point of having dual-axis sticks on a boat Tx - and it would be FAR cheaper to tool up for single axis sticks - then there's scope for a hand-held box, even if it's connected by a cable to the base unit. Let's say there'd need to be a couple of sticks for throttles/steering, and maybe a keypad for the switched functions and rotary knobs for the others e.g. gun turrets. Electronic "slider" trim pots would make the stick units even simpler - perhaps to the extent that they could be CNC-machined instead of moulded. You could very easily contrive to mount two single-axis stick side-by-side to give a twin throttle binacle. A quick browse through my various electronic suppliers' catalogues shows that you can get quite a variety of rather nice aluminium instrument cases which might serve. Some may even be vinyl-clad, just like the roof on my old HC Viva...
O no! It's that "going and coming around" thing again!
Just thinking out loud, chaps. I'd call it "brainstorming" if I had the necessary equipment......... 8)
FLJ
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Whatever, but make the instructions simple. got the Futaba 6 ch where you can mess with it and dont have a clue. cant make sense of the destructions. also have the F-14. will do what i want at a high cost. plus its a box, not nice in this day and age. i think that most of us agree that really all you need most of the time is at the most 3 proportianal ch, then lots of switces, be they on/off, or on/off/on.
but you cant please all the people all time,
colin
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FLJ you have just made me feel really really old - THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH :) wooden box, with a 6 foot aerial, a lump of twin core twisted flex with a single switch on the end :D single valve, with a high-tension EverReady battery on the end, battery in the box - you see its that long ago senility has crept in. However, I do remember somethings!!! and one of them was that the receiver was a single motion that went round and round on it and when you pressed it operated the tiller to the rudder on a cam! so it was a bit hitty missy steering......aye the swans had to be awfully quick to get out of the way them days -
I think I may just stick with the Futaba six channel and Im afraid stick to the philosophy LET THE MAN WORK THE MACHINE AND NOT THE MACHINE WORK THE MAN :D :D :D :D :D
Aye
John E
Bluebird
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I usually take my boats for walk, so setting up a transmitter station is not really desirable for me.
A case that is comfortable to hold, a means of keeping the aerial vertical, possibly a means of converting from self-centre and back without pulling it to bits.
It might well be possible to arrange a self-custom area where electric lego type modules could be slotted in to the individuals requirements, but I feel that FLJ has already pointed out the intrinsic problem there.
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Ive dug this out for FLJ to seek revenge for making me feel old somewhere I have a full article of how to build one of these 'old fashioned transmitter/receivers' like the one photographed below - mmmmmm is this guy related to FLJ? who knows ;D
aye
john
bluebird
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Hello,
I have Sailed/Flown on the 459 Mhz band for 11 years, in all that time I have never had to stop enjoying myself because someone else required my frequency.
Never once had a Frequency Peg issued to me.
Sailed at all of the Ellesmere Port Events - - - ALL DAY !! each time, no problems, apart from envious boaters who wondered how I was able to do it !.
The UHF 459 Band is perfectly legal, but is greatly under used, almost to the point of if we dont use it, we may loose it!.
My TX was made by World Engines, to my design, all the switches etc were where I wanted them, they are all "locking switches".
They have to be lifted up slightly to move them, no accidental errors with my switches.
Servo reverse on all 7 channels, built in Mixer and Rates, 7 inch long TX aerial, short RX aerial.
After 11 years of owning this Set, the only one on the market, worthy of a swap, to me is one of the new 2.4Gig sets, UHF again,
and no interferance.
John. O0 O0 O0
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it probably isnt that much bigger than ther dx6
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PLEASE guys, give us ignorant, unintelligent, old and baffled by techno speak, a break. All I want is an outfit that will do what I tell it when I press the button, pull / push the lever.... O0 we aint no teccy brains, I have only just mastered the light switch :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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That's all I want too BigH..... just lots and lots of buttons!
They don't need to do anything, just look impressive! O0
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Ive dug this out for FLJ to seek revenge for making me feel old somewhere I have a full article of how to build one of these 'old fashioned transmitter/receivers' like the one photographed below - mmmmmm is this guy related to FLJ? who knows ;D
aye
john
bluebird
Whilst risking more complaints about my irrelevant postings, just how old are you John ?? [Model Engineer 1959]
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eeeeeeeeee I was wondering why they wanted an MRI scan of me brain last week - now I know Dicky, its to count the rings to tell me age.....and what this has to do with radio controls I havent a clue.....erm what was the topic again Martin. :D :D
aye
John E
Bluebird :)
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Away to go Martin, and don't forget the disco lights as well
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Ive dug this out for FLJ to seek revenge for making me feel old somewhere I have a full article of how to build one of these 'old fashioned transmitter/receivers' like the one photographed below - mmmmmm is this guy related to FLJ? who knows ;D
aye
john
bluebird
Whilst risking more complaints about my irrelevant postings, just how old are you John ?? [Model Engineer 1959]
JD INVENTED radio control i think with the bluenose! its been around for melenia lol.
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"LED Disco Lights!" .... Now there's an idea! ;D
I remember in a very old American magazine that some of the 'fly boys' had built an aeroplane transmitter into a revolving seat, which had a proper joystick and foot pedals to fly the model plane! :o
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That's all I want too BigH..... just lots and lots of buttons!
Me too.
An earlier home-made Tx of mine employed:
1 x dual-axis gimbal (steering / throttle).
1 x miniture dual-axis gimbal (robbed from one of those Gameboy units).
1 x pushbutton switch (the one on the Gameboy gimbal).
2 x 3-position toggle switches.
2 x rotary pots.
Add those numbers and it comes to nine channels.
Then add a plethora of switches and pots' for dual-rates, servo reverse, etc., makes for a real fun radio.
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The shape of things to come:
http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/flightsim/iVol%20Handout.pdf
Actually, it is available now.
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As I understand Fleet went out of business because of the burden of getting their equpiment through the testing for CE marking.....But now we are at an interesting phase of the market.......
Essentially, IMHO, 27MHz and 40MHz are dead - walk away and leave it to the Far Eastern RTRs. I think the big thrust will be on 2.4GHz of various flavours, backed onto the growth of WiFi. But we are at an interesting phase, reminiscent of the early days of the RC market. You can get type approved (and therefore legal) radio modules in a whole set of flavours - 802.11B/G, ZigBee, Bluetooth, ISM etc etc. It means that hobbyists can concievably build their own customised sets that do what they want. May not be cheaper than basic sets but if you want anything out of the ordinary, certainly possible to build sets.
It may not be a business proposition, but neither was Linux at first - custom designs built in a community seems a real possibility to me - build your own. The price point for it to be cheaper than commercial I am not sure, but I suspect it is when you get past six functions or you need things like multiple channels, switchers, extra proportional channels.
A hard part is the control sticks, but I'm sure it is not beyond the wit of the members of the board to come up with some ideas....
Wom
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This is wonderful stuff! sadly I am hardly understanding a word of it.
BUT, and it is a sincere BUT - In view of the interest this thread has raised it would seem that even the intelligent, knowledgeable and experienced among us agree that what the manufacturers are offering is not what the market wants.
Now, wouldn't it be nice if someone very close to Mr Futaba is reading this and decide that we as a forum are worth listening to?............
Clegg
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I think that, as already pointed out, the manufacturers are catering for the aircraft market. In comparison the boating market comes almost nowhere. Fleet were responsive to boating needs but the bureaucracy was too much for them. Don't expect changes anytime soon.
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Maybe an easy starting point for manufacturer's would be to dump all the stuff related to planes on their "so called" boat sets and replace them with channels controlled by switches and knobs and make available a simple relay unit which would plug into the corresponding "switch controlled channel" like a servo, so you could plug in a servo that goes full one way then centre then full the other way as some do now or plug in the relay unit to give you on/centre off /on. FLJ does a such a unit I think. If you ditched the dual rates and trainer switch etc, then you could easily have say three switches and two proportional knobs on a standard set layout without having to go to the expense of redesign the case.
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having the dual rates is handy, as if you get the 7th model on a 6model set, you could set things up for the dual rates to work the EPA on the 7th model.
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Hi
I have ,like Jay Dee, a 459MHz RC set and although it is now getting a bit past its best I am very reluctant to stop using it. With a TX aerial 7cm (3in) long positioned so that with the Transmitter on the neck strap the aerial is pointed about 30deg up from horizontal I don't have any problems with people walking into the aerial. (some people don't look where their going)
With a Rx aerial just 15cm (6in) its easy to mount on virtually any model.
Made before all singing and dancing electronic it only has adjustable throw on some of the channels, not much of a disadvantage.
Marketed by Ripmax it originally used Futaba M series servos and the plug in RX aerial with coax feeder was useful with the remote mounted antenna and feeder being left in each model while the RX was unplugged and moved (no problem about cutting aerial to fit)
I believe the lack of any modern equipment on this UHF band is due to this being a legal frequency in UK only
Cheers Tom
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it appears that we want to control all our boat of one transmiter, surely the trannies are cheap enough to buy a couple , before long we will need a transmiter as big as a shoe box, full of switches and twiddly things, then we have to remember which setting it is for a particular boat, or perhaps we can include that into our box, a memery list for which model it is we are going to sail today.It is not that long ago that a motor car, if it went wrong, we could put it up on ramps and sort it out ourself, not any more, if it goes wrong now its a garage job, gone are the days when you had a few wires in an electrical loom, now days its a birds nest.Lets keep it simple and improve on the quality of our hobby. All the best Ken..
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Ken, There are plenty of simple sets out ther hence the name of this thread "Theoretical Transmitter design" if all you want is a simple design ie rudder/throttle then stick with a 2 channel set , but for some of us who want to add extra dimensions to our models and we need something that the market is not suppling at the moment unless your a plane fanatic. Surely the point of this thread is to allow us our flight of fancy so to speak. A simple way of switching something on & off without using a servo & microswitches is not too much to ask, is it.
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Looking at previous posts, the usual thing is apparrent. We are individuals and have individual wants. Perhaps we actually need a basic transmitter that can have a customisable accessory box clipped to the back for the individual arrangements that we want.
It would probably cost an arm and a leg.........
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A simple way of switching something on & off without using a servo & microswitches is not too much to ask, is it.
B-P
Ask away, matey - you know where to look.
FLJ
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Hi Bartapuss, we can all dream, about our theoretical transmitter, Good luck to the skilled who want to put more into their boats. Yes, it will be nice if someone could provide us with what we want so we can produce our details , it is nice to see, at the shows, the details that you are including in your models ,, keep up the good work I wish I could produce halve the things you do....Ken...
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Has anyone ever converted 2 stick transmitter to 1 stick, throttle and wheel, steering?
If so, how did you do it?
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Hi, I did it about 20 years ago. I had a multiturn potentiometer about 5 K ohms. Took the wires from the pot in the Tx. and extended them to the multiturn pot, which is outside the Tx. and attached to the side of the box. I had a very nice ships wheel about 2 or 3 inches dia. If it goes the wrong way then reverse the end connections on the pot.
To reduce the number of turns the wheel does, experiment with connecting say 10K resistors between the centre and ends of the pot.
If you look there are 5K pots with about 2 turns to go end to end and these work out better.
There is something else you can do to a Tx. and that is to simulate "weight" to a model by making the rudder and esc operate more slowly. It's a bit like the acceleration and braking controls on a model railway.
To do this get a large value(low voltage, i.e. small) capacitor (try 500 micro farads) and connect it across centre and one end of the pot in the Tx. (I think that is right, its quite a while ago) I put one into a Tx. with a switch connection so that I could disable it.
It is then a bit like full size having to anticipate how long the controls take to be effective. Could be an interesting steering event.
regards Roy
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I still have a couple of Futaba 27 meg wheel TXs. They work fine and I've always preferred them to conventional sticks.
Colin
(http://s7.postimage.org/oivnrxajb/70s_Intro_001_800x600.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/oivnrxajb/)
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Hi Martin
This was my attempt in the 70's and is still going.
The wheel was turned from a piece of 100+ year old mahogany toilet seat :embarrassed: but any hardwood will do!
The axle is threaded and screws into a thick brass plate glued to the inside of the Tx box.
The other parts are various bits of brass flat and tube.
The white connecting piece is just a length of spring curtain rod and is the only part that has had to be replaced when the end rusted off. <:(
I also replaced the end of the throttle lever with a piece of turned perspex as the original futaba one was to long and uncomfortable
I have also converted a 2.4 gig Tx. to left hand drive with a wheel which is somewhere on the forum.
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I have had one or two friends do that to their transmitters.
This one is a Futaba belonging to Bob Pauliny.
:-)
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Interesting, that everyone, thanks.
I was musing this subject while being humiliated into last yesterday while running a steering course at Wicksteed - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=38319.msg382686#msg382686 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=38319.msg382686#msg382686)
I seem to remember an old article in one of the magazines stating that you don't have issues with a 'wheeled' rudder / transmitter as you always turn the wheel in the direction you want the boat to turn (whereas a 'stick' is reversed when the boat is coming towards you) - does anyone remember that article? I seem to recall it had transmitter conversion guidance.... Glynn Guest maybe ......'Radio Controlled Model Boats' magazine even?!?
I've been browsing various transmitters - I could convert a "pistol grip" transmitter and "move" the 'trigger' throttle to a 'stick throttle' and keep the wheel - or convert a 'two stick' transmitter to ' one stick and a wheel'.......
.... just thinking aloud....
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I really like my stick transmitters for helis and planes but for cars and boats I prefer a pistol grip transmitter. I have no need to convert the trigger into a stick, the trigger throttle works perfect for me.
A few month ago I bought a 3 channel FlySky GT3B pistol grip transmitter an converted it into an 8 channel transmitter by simply changing the firmware. So with this modification there are still enough channels left for additional functions.
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I seem to remember an old article in one of the magazines stating that you don't have issues with a 'wheeled' rudder / transmitter as you always turn the wheel in the direction you want the boat to turn (whereas a 'stick' is reversed when the boat is coming towards you
Errrr, a wheel acts just the same. Left (Port) is always left (Port) to the model.
Regards Ian
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Obviously it's a matter of preference but I do find steering to be more instinctive with a wheel compared with sticks. But I suppose it's just something you get used to with practice.
I think you can get 'mirror effect' co-ordination problems when the model is coming towards you and that is what Martin was referring to.
Colin
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? Left hand down is left hand down Colin O0 Don't matter whether a stick or a wheel.
Regards Ian.
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I think the theory is the boat will always turn in the direction you turn the wheel.....
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And it always goes in the direction you point the stick, (unless you flick the servo reverse switches) O0 %%
Regards Ian.
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Hi Martin,
I’m currently trying to upgrade my transmitter to 2.4ghz at the moment.
Regards the steering when coming towards and steering away –
If you sail your boat thumb at the top of the wheel when sailing away and thumb at the bottom of the wheel when sailing towards you sometimes the boat goes where you expect it to lol.
I have looked into producing this type of transmitter commercially but not sure of the demand for such a transmitter?
Regards,
Kim
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I think if someone could come up with a cheap / clever after-market 'mechanical conversion', a'la BrianB6's below (above),
I think a few people maybe interested to try it out... shouldn't be too hard and wouldn't effect the transmitter warranty!
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Found it!!! ... now ask me the name of someone I meet earlier today and i couldn't tell you, articles about model boats from 22 years ago and i can find a saved scan.... that says something rather worrying about me doesn't it.... think I'll go give my good lady a hug after this... she's a great gal really... almost part of the family now!
Anyway, the article was a series in Radio Controlled Boat Modeller, Nov / Dec 1990.
( If you looking in Glynn, I hope I'm not taking a liberty showing a couple of bits! Martin. )
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Left hand down is left hand down Colin Don't matter whether a stick or a wheel.
Of course Ian, but what we are talking about here is a perception issue and not everybody's brains are wired alike. For example, some people find it really hard to get to grips with using a tiller on a yacht as opposed to steering a motorboat with a wheel. Not everyone was created equal unfortunately!
Likewise, many people don't like driving on the Continent and negotiating roundabouts the 'wrong' way. In my case I seem to have a mental switch that clicks to 'continental mode' when I drive off the ferry.
Colin
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Much easier to control a boat with a wheel especially if you have spokes at top, bottom, left and right.
Just use the spoke that points in the same direction as the boat is heading.
Although mine only has 2 spokes it is still much easier to imagine this and how often is the boat heading straight towards you.
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AMS member Paul Brassington designed and built both of these two tx's...one for his sub and one for his amazing sinking/folding coaster.
(http://s14.postimage.org/imdbxtd8t/100_7951_JPG_opt472x353o0_0s472x353.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/imdbxtd8t/)
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I think if someone could come up with a cheap / clever after-market 'mechanical conversion', a'la BrianB6's below (above),
I think a few people maybe interested to try it out... shouldn't be too hard and wouldn't effect the transmitter warranty!
Now that is a reasonable and practical question the answer is??????????????????
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I think if someone could come up with a cheap / clever after-market 'mechanical conversion', a'la BrianB6's below (above),
I think a few people maybe interested to try it out... shouldn't be too hard and wouldn't effect the transmitter warranty!
Its certainly do-able... the problem is that you would need to manufacure one for each model of TX
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I was thinking of a "stick" or "clamp" on sort of device or even a wheel that sit over the entire stick assembly so all the workings are hidden under the wheel... come on chaps, thinking caps on!
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Hi, referring back to my original response.
You will have to do a little experimenting first.
Here is a 3 turn potentiometer 5000 ohms in value. Connect the wires from the potentiometer in the TX. to this pot'. You can remove the gibbons from the TX. substitute a bracket to support the pot, stick a ships wheel on the spindle.
It may need a little tweeking but you should have a wheel that turns around twice or so for operating the rudder. You may need a 2000 ohm resistor at each end of the pot to limit electrical travel. i.e. connect a 2000 ohm resistor to each of the terminals of the pot and then connect the TX wires to these. leaving the centre wire on the new pot. A 2 k resistor costs a penny or so.
The pot in this case is £12.60 but it might be worth seeing they are any cheaper. Again if you do not get enough movement extend as above.
I can't guarantee success for you but it worked for me.
You could also use a standard pot with 270 degrees movement and that would give a limited turn. This would be cheaper.
http://UK.Darnell.com/ecosystems/MW22b-3-5k/potentiometer-3-turn-5ohm-0-7w/DP/1307130
Good luck,
Roy
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Someone drew up a U.S. patent for a simple add on device in 1989 ;) , here's the details - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4882942.pdf
HawkEye
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How on earth did you find that! :o
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How on earth did you find that! :o
Ah ! Google is your friend :-)) ( as well as spying on everywhere you go and everything you do on the net ! )
HawkEye
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I do like the "a fork shaped lever extending therefrom". Super bit of late Victorian prose. Perhaps - "Google is your fiend"?
It should be feasible to gear that arrangement to give a generous amount of turn for the required stick throw and use it as a clip-on for a regular transmitter rather than using a multi-turn pot. 10 turn pot = 3 and a bit turns in the middle of the travel gives normal lock to lock.
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How much "throw" (rotation) do you get on a wheel / pistol grip Tx?
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I find that you don't need that much turn on the wheel and mine is approximatly 30 degrees each way.
I think more would cause problems with holding the Tx and trying to steer at the same time.
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Someone drew up a U.S. patent for a simple add on device in 1989 ;) , here's the details - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4882942.pdf
HawkEye
With a bit of tidying up that could be useful... Also if like me you use your TX for things other than boats then the quick change ability is a bonus
And as an aside.... no need to open the TX so no warranty issues.
I've been looking for some projects to test our new 3d printer with and this looks like a perfect candidate