Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 02:32:20 pm

Title: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 02:32:20 pm

OK let have a straw pole:

Do you ( in general ) Scratch or Kit build & why?

And what were your most recent builds, rebuids, restorations, repairs etc?


( I suppose there are other types of model boat building not
correctly covered by those generalizations so tell us what you do?! )
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on September 21, 2007, 02:39:38 pm
I have done both BUT the kits are built the way I want to build them, so are very heavily modded,But are bought knowing that is what is going to happen .If I had to just do one it would be SCRATCH.  Last builds RAF Crash Tender    HS Tug  Steam tug Perseverance (fiberglass hulls scratch rest)

Peter
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: DickyD on September 21, 2007, 02:49:16 pm
My PM asked what were my last 3 builds. Why only 2 votes ? :-\
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: gribeauval on September 21, 2007, 02:49:36 pm
If you look at my last posting in the lifeboats section you may guess that I mainly scratchbuild but have been known to kit build on occasions.  

Current build:   1/3rd Scale Mersey (scratch build)

Current build: Graupner 9m Germnan Lifeboat (Kit build)

Last build: 1/12th 37' Oakley (scratch build)

Last Build 1/12th  47' Tyne Class lifeboat with working boathouse and slipway (scratch build)

On many occasions I will use commercial parts but also enjoy solving the problems of producing the fittings I need from totally unrelated items e.g Mersey exhausts from pipe fittings and ashtrays.

To me the enjoyment of model boat building are the technical challenges I set myself. Once a boat does what I intended it to do I loose interest in the thing and dispose of it( I either sell them or destroy them) ready for a new challenge. I am not a great 'lets sail the boat' person, a couple of times is enough for me to get bored.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Gunslinger on September 21, 2007, 02:55:29 pm
Have done both in my time but in general I prefer to build from a kit and then add my own touches. To be absolutely fair, the usual reason why I "do my own thing" is where I just "know" that the way the kit designer has done is wrong and I can improve on it.  :angel: Last scratch build was a Perkasa, one just finished was Trent Lifeboat (HEAVILY modded) and next project is steam launch (Lake Windemere style) which I'm going to fit out with some fairly exotic woods (Deck and Wheelhouse, etc), this mainly so that I can mount it in the front room and admire it  ::). Fat chance of being allowed to do that but I can always dream.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: cbr900 on September 21, 2007, 03:01:25 pm
Last three builds are as follows:

1 Rebuild of Seabex One

2 Scratch build Riva Aquarama

3 Kit build Amsterdam since Modified to what I wanted.

I agree with Richard you should be able to select more than two items as I have just done four......... ;D


Roy
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 21, 2007, 03:06:57 pm
sydney star and najade,  both kits,

modified to suit my personal tastes and sailing requirements
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: dougal99 on September 21, 2007, 03:09:28 pm
Of the 9 boats I have built to date (in this millennium when I took up the hobby again) 6 have been scratch from commercial plans, 1 using a heavily modded commercial hull and built from an A5 line drawing plus 2 Kits. So I suppose I prefer scratch building as it give me more scope to do my thing. I started my first kit several years ago and wanting to make a good job of it I have taken my time, building other boats in the meantime. This I think was a mistake as I have lost continuity, and have made several mistakes during the construction process which have taken extra time correct.

Having said all that, I think kits can give you a good chance of building a good looking model (at my skill level) without too much research and problem solving.

Must get back to my long kit build...  ???

My last 3 builds were a scratch yacht (Wee Nip), Sea Queen kit and a freighter based on the Brockley Combe using a commercial hull.

Doug
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: chingdevil on September 21, 2007, 03:17:04 pm
I have scratch built two springer tugs plus I am scratch building a 1:24th pusher tug and I am working on a Mountfleet Sealight puffer, which I am modifying. The next one I want to build, will also be scratch built. I get more enjoyment from the scratch building than from the Mountfleet kit, due to the problems I had with it.

Brian
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: White Ensign on September 21, 2007, 03:21:37 pm
Just done one kit- the Mohawk by Deans. Never again!  :o
Scratchbuilt: HMS Lord Nelson, HMS Velox, HMS P49 (all foresaid scale 1:100), CMB 103MT scale 1:24, wooden Sailyacht scale 1:30
In progress: Russian G-5 Torpedoboat (scratch) scale 1:20

Why I prefer scratch? The reason may make you laugh. When I started boating I don`t have had the money to buy a kit or the fittings. And so I have learned it to make it all on my own. Once tasted blood I never stopped as then I was not very satisfied with either scale or appearance of ready bought items. And the boats I wanted to do, there had been no hulls available. It was ever my intention not be any mainstream, I ever wanted to make somtehing different or not seen before.
So scratch is the only answer!  ::)

Jörg
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Doc on September 21, 2007, 03:28:25 pm
I would rather build from a kit, then modify that kit if I feel like it.  Why?  'Cuz I'm lazy!  'They' have already gone to the trouble of finding all that stuff and usually tell me how it should be assembled.  Could I have done all that?  In most cases, I think so, but at a huge amount of more effort (remember that lazy part).  Also depends on my 'mind-set' at the time.  If 'they' have gone to all that trouble, why should I make it seem so unnecessary?  I'm such a 'caring' person, you know (good excuse, huh!).
 - 'Doc
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Captain Anonymous on September 21, 2007, 03:30:17 pm
My last 10 builds have been scratch built,

these are the last 3 builds.

1/96 scale USS NORTH CAROLINA

1/96 scale HMS IRON DUKE.

1/72 scale USS MOFFETT  DD362
 
Moderated
 Comment unnecessary

Now building USCGC DUANE 1/72 SCALE.

Many years ago I built a bugsia 3 , went to a show and there was 7 at the same show, so for me it was building my own, and
have what I wanted not what they had in the shop at the time, and one could spread the money out over a period, not in one lump.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: gingyer on September 21, 2007, 03:39:47 pm
The majority of my builds are from GRP hulls then either purchase or build the fittings.
the way I choose a project is to look about for an unusual type or something that catches my imagination
then start to do a bit of research and see who does what in the way of parts.

At the moment I have in various stages of construction or completed;

1/72nd HMS Iron Duke (Type23 frigate) (GRP Hull)
1/48th USS Jaccard (WW2 Destroyer Escort) (GRP hull)
1/48th Gato submarine (GRP Hull)
1/72nd Type 12 frigate (GRP Hulll)
Andrea Gail  (Billings Kit)
1/96th HMS Warspite (scratch)

plus around 5 that I did not build so will not list
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: KitS on September 21, 2007, 03:45:58 pm
With my name I ought to build kits mainly but...........  ;D

Last complete model was a vacform MiniMumm, but there's a lot more work in it than a kit.

Previously I've done a semi-scale Offshore Class 2 outboard racer on an Astec Fibreglass hull (no idea what it was called, I bought it so long ago even Alan can't remember it.........)

And the one before that WAS a kit, a Lesro Atlantic 21.

In build now is a push tug based on an MMM Gerhard hull, SS Atlantic Conveyor using Metcalf Mouldings hull and George Turner's K3 Bluebird. Most of these will be long build items, at least until April when I retire. (193 days to go......  ;) )
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Bunkerbarge on September 21, 2007, 03:59:19 pm
I think it is with this categorising that we sometimes get a bit too wrapped up in pre-judging.  There are some people who put far more time into a kit than some do into a scratchbuilt ship so I think each and every model should be looked at on it's own merits.

I think the attitude of "If you use purchased fittings then it is not scratchbuilt" is too elitist for me and getting away from what we are supposed to be doing, which is simply enjoying building a model from whatever materials suits our own individual tastes to achieve the enjoyment we want.  

How far do you take the scratchbuilt principle?  If it is propelled by a purchased, off the shelf, motor does it cease to be scratchbuilt?  Does any scratchbuilder make thier own motors?  Why should using bought fittings then not make it a scratchbuild?

My current builds are the Ben Ain steamer, which would be classified as a modified kit, a rowing boat, which is a combination of a bought hull with the mechanics made by myself and recently a Revel U-Boat converted for R/C use.  Not what you would call a prolific builder but when this has to be squeezed into a leave schedule you very quickly run out of time.  The Ben Ain has three years in her so far and I reckon at least another two to go and I certainly do on average a couple of hours each day when I am on leave but that isn't a lot really.  

I also have a couple of Kingston Hulls and a pile of engines and boilers that are going to be steam launches one day, one with a variable pitch propeller, and I have ambitions on an Engles Sub one day.

Then of course I am always modifying, uprating, repairing, experimenting etc. the existing fleet which always seems to take up a bit of time as well!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Guy Bagley on September 21, 2007, 04:00:53 pm
 i have done  both scratch and kit builds over the years......
but i suppose my  general preference is to build from a GRP hull and then scratch build the rest !- the benefits are you rarely get another model similar at a show !

my latest 3 builds are

thames police boat, built on a kingston mouldings hull-
a windermere open launch built on a kingston mouldings hull
and a 1:24 clyde puffer built on a GRP hull bought at a modellers sale

also under way is the refit of the biber from colin Stevens and refit of my 15 yr old 1:12th arun lifeboat ( scratchbuilt)

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Tug Man on September 21, 2007, 04:09:22 pm
My first boat was a scratch build and I prefer to build that way. Unfortunately I do not have any local hobby shops and that has changed the way I now build. I build kits now and modify them to my liking.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: malcolmfrary on September 21, 2007, 04:13:06 pm
I've done both, at least in RC I started with scratch because, like Jörg, I was strapped for cash at the time, and later I started modifying kits after the kids started leaving home, and I spotted kits that I liked, and I was too lazy to scratch build.
Any scratch build has to have limits as to whether it really is scratch or not - how many scratch builders make their own handrail stanchions, make their own prop shafts, wind their own motors, make their own magnets etc? ???  Does buying a GRP hull and plan, then buying a bucket full of fittings to plant on it count as scratch?  It can be a fuzzy line, but where does one start and the other end? :-\
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: pompebled on September 21, 2007, 04:21:58 pm
Like most boaters here, I do both.

The scratch builds are more a long term project, as I am in no hurry to get them finished (and lack of time of course)

The GRP hulls I build are mostly fast electrics and when things go wrong, I build/assemble up to two three boats a season.

Recent builds:

- A-1 Purple Light refit; from a RTR to a mono 1 racer.

- Scratchbuilt bottom half for a RC-duck, as a prop in an open air play.

- Thunder Tiger Voyager sailyacht, a rather modified kit build.

- Italian M.A.S. a 110cm stepped (MTB) hull, scratch, stretching over a decade now.

Regards, Jan.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: shark bait on September 21, 2007, 04:25:49 pm
would like to learn my craft by following instructions first and modifiying as i grow in confidence. ideally i would love to scratch build in the future.

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: toesupwa on September 21, 2007, 04:28:38 pm
I think there is more sattisfaction scrathch building.. you can stand back and say "I built that"..

Besides, there are not the kits out there that i want to build... and the 'full' kits that are interesting are FAR too expensive..

Current build: Angels Gate tug in her wartime colours.

Last Build 1: A Springer in an American Navy pusher style

Last Build 2: A Springer based on a Voith Tug ('Scout') based out of San Pedro (LA) Harbour
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Faraday's Cage on September 21, 2007, 04:31:38 pm
At the end of the day it all boils down to whatever you personally prefer.

Like most, I've built both and had satisfaction from completing both. I find scratch built models more time consuming and probably more demanding of my capabilities.

If I had to decide which, then I'd have to go for kit built but with modification to get things working on the model.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: IainM on September 21, 2007, 04:38:19 pm
Like many others I have done both scratch and scratch build on a commercial hull.
Most of my recent builds have been based on a job lot of GRP hulls dating from the early 1980's (just shows how fast my building is  ;D)

I guess tha main reason for scratch building in either case is a combination of cost and the challenge of making something from the ground up that looks acceptable plus an interest in historical research.

My last three builds have been:
Fully scratch built plank on frame Royal Barge (1938 vintage plans) 1:16
GRP hull scratch Vosper ASRL 1:32
GRP Brave Class FPB 1:35
 ..... and I've just started a GRP Lady Wooes tug

I confess I've never tried a full kit build although have been tempted on many occasions.  Maybe one day .......

IainM
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 04:47:46 pm
Hi Dicky,
It's just a straw pole for generalization down the pub hence why I asked about our last builds.

Martin.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: madrob on September 21, 2007, 04:58:10 pm
Many moons ago i built a kit, wasnt what i expected, was a lot of money and nothing seemed to fit where it was supposed to, dam thing wouldnt even sit on water level without a hell of a lot of grinding of the grp hull.(the grp was nearly half a inch thick one side, like tissue paper on other)
Then i built 2 scratchbuilds from plans, prinz eugen and a crash tender, both burnt by my ex when i walked out. I think i got more of a sence of achievment with the scratchbuilds.
I would consider buying another kit if i was a bit richer  ;D

currently scratchbuilding HMS fife a county class destroyer before she was molested by exocet.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: big-geoff on September 21, 2007, 05:03:56 pm
I have always built from scratch, ever since I started building model boats as a teenager.

It started because thats what was available, the junk in the shed was a goldmine (still is).

I recently was given the Revel HMAS Snowberry to build, Reminded my why I scratch build, I hated every minute of the build.

There is a satisfaction in solving every problem from building the hull to mounting the mast lights, even if the ship never sails...... some of mine have not got wet, they sit on shelves in almost every room in the house ("gathering dust", she says).

There is room in our hobby for everyone no matter what way we acquire our models (its the same in the model railway fraternity, only I think that is more polarized), its the friendliness of fellow modelers and the openness within our hobby that keeps me on this forum and others.

Model boaters never die, they mealy hang around lakes and ponds asking what frequency we are using ;D ;D

Big-geoff



Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: hobbyman on September 21, 2007, 05:09:23 pm
I got started again by building two Billings models "zwart zee"and" cux 87" ,amd now building from scratch the tug ,"Bogdan",a polish tug in wood, planked hull ,wood deck and cabins ,i like to see wood come alive.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Willit on September 21, 2007, 05:12:51 pm
ummm generally I will kit build or scratch build with equal gusto.  I don't really have any preference, although sometimes scratchbuilding can be a teeny bit more fun :)

but it is nice to have the bits made for you  ;)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Colin H on September 21, 2007, 05:16:01 pm
To this time I have only built from kits simple reason I don't yet have the skills or experience to build from scratch.

Last build Slo Mo Shun Billings kit that taught me an awful lot because both the kit its self and the instructions were awful.

Before that it was the Robbe Atlantis Superb kit highly reccommended nut not for the novice.

The one before was hardly a build more a put together exercise the Robbe Estelle but a wonderful boat for the novice sailor.

The next one due to start when I have finished renovating the lounge SWMBO orders you will never guess.

.


.

.

.

.


A SPRINGER TUG. O0 O0 O0

Yours Colin H.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: depaashaas on September 21, 2007, 05:21:11 pm
hello there,
i am from the Netherlands and i got a mailing with the above question.
so my answers are:

mostly modified kit with some kit parts and home made stuff.

i am into navy and semi-scale models. the last models i have build were:
 *  the Lindberg plastic kit of a small tug, scale 1:60, which i modified to a US navy tug with all the weathering and damage of a sea-battle in the pacific. this model is full RC and +/- 25cm long.
 *  a Revell static display of 2 LCT on a beach scenery. scale 1:250
 *  a plan build freshwater tanker which is in use on the dutch harbours to supplie the sea going vessels with fresh water and other stuff. i made it as a "bier boot" (Heineken's beer). it was full RC and +/- 60cm long. i sold it last week.
 *  my new project is a scratch build hull of a mooring tug. it is from a German plan and should be full RC. length is +/- 45cm scale 1:25.

i hope that you understand my poor English writing, school was 15 years ago... :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

greetings from a sunny Vlissingen harbour,

Antonio
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: DickyD on September 21, 2007, 05:24:32 pm
Antonio your English is as good as, if not better than a lot of us on the forum  O0
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: tolnedra on September 21, 2007, 05:29:04 pm
In the main, I build from kits - reason being lack of skills and equipment/space. Last three as follows:-

Re-build of Riverman by Jotika - my last one sank in a reservoir!

Graupners's Micro Magic - modified to a degree, to suit me.

Tyne Models semi-kit of tug Alfred - very satisfying to see sailing on the lake, very controllable and with plenty of power.

Danny
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: towboatjoe on September 21, 2007, 05:35:16 pm
I scratch build inland river towboats cause I know the boats inside and out and there's a specialized market that I profit in building the models for customers.

Last three builds
American Viking
G L Furr
Robert Kopper
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: MikeK on September 21, 2007, 05:37:51 pm
Mainly scratch built, but if a kit caught my eye (and I had the pennies !) I would be perfectly happy giving it a go.
Last 4
Will Everard 4ft scratch built barge
2 x 1M yachts from free plans, planked in balsa & glassed, scratch built
1M Yacht Widget GRP hull assembled and rigging scratch built (?)
'A' Class yacht Orca design, scratch built, hull planked in cedar cut from two 'big' planks

Just realized that comes to 5, but who's counting  ::)

MikeK
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: DickyD on September 21, 2007, 05:45:47 pm
My last three new builds have been:

Revell Corvette kit.

Robbe Scheutze minesweeper kit.

Robbe PT15 with 2 superstructures [1 sank] kit.

I am renovating a 1970's Freya 36 with a new superstructure.

My next build will be a bought hull and a scratchbuild superstructure US MGB of the Vietnam war era. :-\

Happy days  :)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Langsford on September 21, 2007, 05:51:21 pm
I think a lot depends on your ability and experience. I am on my third Mountfleet model all of which I have tried to improve on. If it is possible to improve on the late Fank Hinchcliff, what a loss to us all.
One other point, do ALL of the scratch builders also build the hull, arguably the most difficult part?
Cheers, John
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Almirante on September 21, 2007, 05:53:12 pm
The choices are too simplistic.

If there is a kit for a model I would like to build I search for any reviews and as a result of these, if favourable, I purchase it. The trouble is that the modelling press is reluctant to publish any adverse comments otherwise they would loose advertising revenue and soI became a builder of modified kits. The degree of modification has varied from minor to scrapping 90% of the fittings and reworking areas of the fibre glass hull.

On the other hand if there isn`t a "short cut" I scratch build. In the end there is little difference in the skill required to produce an
acceptable model only the time taken to do so.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 21, 2007, 05:55:05 pm
Picking up on Bunkerbarge's point as to what constitutes a scratchbuilt model, the traditional definition of fully scratch was that everything visible on the exterior of the model (including the hull) had to be made by the builder with the exception of anchor and other chain and the running gear (shafts and props). It went without saying that you had to have built from a plan. These days of course the definition is rather more elastic so there are "degrees of scratch" depending upon how many bought in components have been used. So, as others have already said, do whatever suits you! It's your hobby after all. There's nothing "elitist" about the term scratchbuilding, it is simply a description. The only time it matters is if you enter a competition when somebody who has built the lot will get many more marks than somebody who has bought a hull, scratch built the superstructure and added commercial fittings - and that's the way it should be.

I would add that with the ready availability of RTR boats there seems to be a bit of what might be termed "grade deflation" going on. Some people appear to think that if they have to stick a couple of bits together it constitutes "scratchbuilding". On that basis all the Airfix kits would fit the definition!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Tankerman on September 21, 2007, 05:56:35 pm
My last three models are:

1) Coastal Tanker "Frederick M." - Scratch built from ship-yard plans to 1/50th. scale. It won a Gold Medal at the M.E. but that was 21 years ago.

2) H.M.S.Agamemnon - Caldercraft kit, extra detail added and rigging modified to comply with the establishment of the period. Just completed.

3) H.M. Customs Cruiser "Vigilant" - Current project which looks as though it will be built straight from the box, the Marten, Howes and Bayliss kit is so accurate and complete.

I prefer to scratch build but if a kit is good then I'll use it.

Tankerman
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: big-geoff on September 21, 2007, 06:16:15 pm
I Wholeheartedly agree with Colin, there are degrees of scratch building and I would hope that many would have a go at building some part no matter how small a part of a model and realise the satisfaction of building something yourself.

I read a post on another thread about steam winches and there not being any available ready made parts or kits available, the joy of this hobby for me is coming up against a problem like that, spending hours researching and finally making something that resembles the fitting that I need.

Of course I am not "xxxxx" enough to produce my own anchor cable, if it was not for the support of outlets like Westborne's etc I would probably not complete my builds.

I would love to be able to produce the quality of the like of Brian King (all hail the god of scratch building) :P and I admire the quality of some of RTR and ARTR models that are being produced. It is these producers that are introducing new blood to the hobby, and the likes of Brian who inspire us to have a go at making our own.

Long live model boating in all its forms.

Big-Geoff
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Shipmate60 on September 21, 2007, 06:22:15 pm
I seem to be in a huge minority.
I prefer to refurbish models, or should I say totally rebuid.
I am presently working on a 1/72 scale Prinz Eugen that was started 26 yrs ago.
But
I also build ALL the rest
Kits, hulls and scratch.
I only scratch build when the ship I want to build does not have a GRP hull available.

Bob
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Peterm on September 21, 2007, 06:23:11 pm
I have built kits, but I prefer scratch-building as I can use my ingenuity.   Current scratch-build is the paddle tug IONA, circa 1896.   Pete M.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: kiteman1 on September 21, 2007, 06:41:52 pm
I'd have preferred a multiple choice poll as I have built three from the five classes at various times.  This would probably have given a fairer result  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 06:45:29 pm
Comment via email.....

I do a combination of kit and scratch. If something
seems a little under detailed, I scratch build more
detail into the project, such as my lifeboat build, a
never ending project, because I keep finding things to
be done that were not part of the original kit.

Then there are projects like my lighthouse build, as
yet unfinished, where everything is scratch built. I'm
hoping to get back at it this winter and finish up the
complete diorama.  This is one of those "best laid
plans of mice and men".

After having been on a three month holiday, covering
21 of the 50 United States, it's a little hard to get
back in the groove again.

Crazy Yank
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 06:46:21 pm
Comment via email.....

Hi  there

Well,  my  first  build  EVER  was  a  1:144  scratch  built  USS
Enterprise,  now  call  me  crazy,  stupid  whatever,  I  didn't  realise
the  involvement  until  I  was  way  into  the  construction  ( still  busy
10  months  down  the  line ).

In-between  I  am  now  also  building  ( scratch  built )  USS  Bunkerhill
1:96  and  3  semi  scale  kits,  1  x  HMS  Zulu  (  Deans  Marine ),  1  x
USS  Oscar  Austin  and  1  x  HMS  Campbeltown  both  from  SIRMAR.

I  know  tell  me  again  I'm  crazy,  BUT  I  find  it  easier  to  build
a  few  at  a  time,  it  means  while  one  part  is  drying / curing  etc.
I  can  continue  on  something  else  and  because  of  my  working
getting  in  the  way,  I  can  only  work  on  the  models  between  10pm
and  3am  daily.

Happy  modelling

Melville
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 06:47:51 pm
Reply via email...

I build kits for now because they usually come with everything I need for a finished model. I am planning a scratch built model of the Great Republic in 1/4 scale and getting experience with kit's like the Sterling 63' Chris Craft,Dumas American Enterprise,Anfora Pilar and half a dozen other plank on hull boats from ModelExpo. I also enjoy building the plastic kits from Revell of clipper ships of which I have built the Cutty Sark and the Thermopylae in the large scale and another Thermopylae waitng in the wings.   
Nice models. 
Pete
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 06:52:45 pm
Reply via email.....

Hi gents, Mmmm......... well, a rebuild on a Smit Nederland, Kit build of an Al Khubar, Kit build of a Guernsey, Re-build of a Thyssen and at present a scratch build of a Pheonix Mouldings Thrax which might finish up as a different name.
Cheers all,
 
Wiggy
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Positive on September 21, 2007, 07:18:14 pm
I have only scratchbuilt for many years.    I began in the 1950s because after my first two kits, my parents said they couldn't afford any more & gave me a tool box & a few tools instead!       Since then, I have noted a considerable number of people who are highly skilled, but because they have chained themselves to kits, have never progressed beyond assembling a magnificent model from a kit (mainly someone else's hard work).      I feel that in the UK, we have been dumbed down in most things practical & this is very evident in marine modelling.       I can seldom find a category to put my models in in forums because I only build ships, big ones, small, ones, medium sized ones, but all ships.    Why does the avergae man-in-the street in th UK persist in talking about "boats" even if they are quarter of a million tons?   
(http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/455/winchestercastle3pb.jpg)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Bluebird v2 on September 21, 2007, 07:26:25 pm
hi all,

Scratch building to me, I must confess, is where the modeller scratch builds or makes, everything physically possible - i.e. all exterior fixtures and fittings, such as anchor chains, props, prop shafts and soforth.

With regards motors, batteries, and radio gear, they dont physically contribute to the 'looks' of the model - they only make it perform.

That to me, is a true scratch build.

Everything else, in my eyes, where you buy a hull/fittings - then it becomes semi-scratch build.

The closest I have ever become to a scratch build was my Fairmile B.   I chickened out at making the anchor chains and the props.  Also the portlights which I bought previously for another model.  So, I can safely say 100% of my models are semi-scratch built.

The reason I semi-scratch is, in the very beginning, like a lot of us, we couldnt affort to purchase kits - pocket money wouldnt stretch to 16 shillings and sixpence and couple of sheets of balsa wood and scrounge some offcuts from the timber yard, yet  :)

But to be honest though, now, the enjoyment for semi-scratch is to see the actual model come from the plans.  Each piece you make be added.

As you know, I have already attempted to build for a kit, and quite honestly I struggled.   Not because of the difficulty of the kit, but the difficulty in following someone else's instructions.  There were so many times I wanted to do it MY WAY and there was a nagging thought at the back of my mind - if I go off my way, I may overlook something I should have added in earlier on.

so, yes, these guys who purchase kits and do it their way, are just as skilled as anyone else, if not more so.

At the end of the day whether you scratch build, semi-scratch build or kit build - it makes you happy and you are pleased with what you are doing THAT IS WHAT COUNTS - we arent building a model to prove we are better than anyone else - we are building for enjoyment.

Right, Im off to see if I can understand my 'daft' plan.

Aye
John E
Bluebird

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: Modeller51 on September 21, 2007, 07:29:28 pm
Scratch build
Last 3 builds were
a 1/8th scale bantum tug
1/12th scale 71foot narrowboat
1/12 scale 56foot canal tug

why because i can
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: patrolboat on September 21, 2007, 07:34:11 pm
i have done scatch build and kits
my models up to now are
graupner rowing boat
a jap hydrafoil kit
a new marcettes le madigan
a areonaughts toben tuga graupner paul denker
a steam picket launch
a scatch built p28 bulit in vietnam era both scatch
a scatch built swift vietnam boat
just building a windermere steam launch 
i have a sixtys cabin cruiser still to be started a winter  project
just built an a s r launch w w 2 whaleback bought hull +top and modified the rest from original plans
a sheltered deck fishing boat scatch biuld
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: patrolboat on September 21, 2007, 07:41:07 pm
i have done scatch build and kits
my models up to now are
graupner rowing boat
a jap hydrafoil kit
a new marcettes le madigan
a areonaughts toben tuga graupner paul denker
a steam picket launch
a scatch built p28 bulit in vietnam era both scatch
a scatch built swift vietnam boat
just building a windermere steam launch 
i have a sixtys cabin cruiser still to be started a winter  project
just built an a s r launch w w 2 whaleback bought hull +top and modified the rest from original plans
a sheltered deck fishing boat scatch biuld
a scatch build pusher tug and barge
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: boatmadman on September 21, 2007, 07:49:20 pm
My builds:
Drifter - scratch
riva - scratch
Pen Duick, Yacht - scratch
hydro - scratch
bluebird k7 - kit
fast electric mono - kit
grand banks schooner - scratch
brave borderer - scratch
waveny lifeboat (the billings one) - kit
banckert - kit
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: HMS Indifference on September 21, 2007, 08:24:50 pm
Scratch build every time. I like to build something that is similiar to a specific boat/ship but not have to be meticulous so the 'critic' can't say, '???? does not have that shape hull/sails that big/is not coloured like that, is bigger than that, etc, etc, etc. A perfect example of this was my last build, a 5 foot plus aircraft carrier that was named HMS Invincible because it looked like it. The 'pain in the a** critic kept saying, 'Invincible is not like this, that, does not have, does have, etc.' After several weeks of this I said to him that it's name was not Invincible it was HMS Indifference, so now I can do what I like with it. Shut him up for sure.

My last 3 builds were:
An adapted pink Barbie plastic boat that had 2 motors mounted on pylons and small propellers, including Barbie in the boat and Ken on skis - a real head turner
An airboat made from a sheet of foam and 600 motor - really fast
HMS Indifference, aircraft carrier with all bells and whistles, music, radar, etc. This is featured here on 'Your Models' and looks brilliant on the canal. I often follow within half a metre to the rear of barges and the kids love it (not to metion the adults)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: djrobbo on September 21, 2007, 08:32:58 pm
Hi everybody. GREETINGS FROM SUNNY ESSEX ?  Like so many others i started building boats etc, when i was about 13 ,which was in nineteen hundred and frozen to death, and back then it was save up your pocket money to buy a plan from the m.a.p book and go from there. So most of my efforts are scratch built. I also restore and modify old models,although i have just purchased a perkasa kit .   currently building a springer tug from scratch......rebuilding  1/96 hms intrepid....just finished a small puffer from scratch.....other models in the fleet aswell.   Personally i think its all down to personal preferance and skill levels , we may be able to handle the wood side of things but may not have a metal lathe or the skill to use one , so have to buy some bits ready made, dont think it makes much differance really.                              happy boating to everyone .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       BOB
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: walrus on September 21, 2007, 09:09:58 pm
I have built 3 kit boats in the past which resulted in good models but no personal satisfaction
I have also built 15 scratch built wooden boats with plank on frame construction in the past 5 years.
They are 10 yachts, a Colchester smack, an MFV, a trailable day launch, a longtail boat and a lakeland steamer.
Now under construction is an open lakeland launch and this time I am making my own steam engine to go in it
This all keeps the grey matter turning round and makes me wonder how I found time to go to WORk

Happy modelling Alan
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch building - Why?
Post by: bobdoc on September 21, 2007, 09:17:02 pm
I used solely to scratch build - plank on frame or bread and butter plus "invented and manufactured bits and bobs".

After a couple of decades out to act as a taxi service for children, I now buy kits and scratch build the bits not provided or provided but requiring "modification" - always seems much of the kit remains unused but becomes modifiable parts for future kits. I have a huge "scraps box"!

Common sense would say buy a hull and scratch build from there, but, like on many other threads on this forum, many seem to buy with enthusiastic whim and complete at leisure .. if ever!

It's a hobby - go with the flow ... golfers lose golf balls for ever!

Bob
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: portside II on September 21, 2007, 10:03:05 pm
My last three builds
MMM Nangee the hull as a kit and the rest as i like
Metcalf mouldings Greamsey as a kit from keel to the top of the mast
4 foot cargo/container ship scratch built from photos and RMS ships that come to Goole
yes i like to build from basic kit and then give it my own touch  :) well thats my excuse anyways
daz
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: BORIS on September 21, 2007, 10:19:43 pm
there is one boat i really want ..that is a "modern" offshore oil rig supply vessel...no kit manufacturers up to now have made any...so scratch building is the only option..however i have never attempted to do this..for one ,i would need more tools..workspace and a skill to be able to do it in the first place.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 10:29:33 pm
Via email....


Hiya,
I have done both. The advantage of scratch building is the way you can make
for youself a lot of the kit parts and reduce the cost sometimes. Started
sailing a Thunder Tiger Victoria which I was given this year. I enjoy it so
much better than chugging a tug around the lake that I have just purchased
this week The Thunder Tiger ETNZ Yacht, which I cannot waite to get into the
water and I am building from scratch over the winter a Pond Yacht based on a
Metcalf Mouldings hull,

Bill
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 10:30:08 pm
Via email.....

I have done 2 refurb projects. Don't have the experience or time to build from scratch, but very much enjoy getting a boat that is almost ready for the breakers yard, and bringing it back to its former glory! I would very much like to get my hands on an "Orca" Jaws boat as my next project!
Paul
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Captain Povey on September 21, 2007, 10:42:13 pm
Well I suppose my first attempt was a scratch build at about the age of 12, no money so bits off wood from the shed had to do. No tools also meant it was not very successful so got some cash together and got a hobbies tug kit and a fret saw. It was kits from then on I suppose and included the Santa Maria, Waverider and St Canute until recently when I went in for a bit of refurbishment of a Smit Nederland. I can see the fascination of the true or even semi-scratch build and as tools and and materials are now available it may be time to have another go. Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: gerrybuilt on September 21, 2007, 10:55:14 pm
I am building the Hachette Bismark. There. I've said it. Seriously tho' folks, this is my first ship model and I don't have the experience to scratch build. I wanted a ship to sail and the Bis. is such an historic ship that I couldn't resist it. Formerly' many years ago, in extreme youth I was an aero modeller. Then when the kids came along I built a railway in 4mm scale. I couldnt cary on withit no spare room for a layout. So the Bis. is my way of getting something built.

Good on all you scratchers ,


Gerry
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 11:01:03 pm
Hi Gerry - updating my Bismarck build now -  Martin Builds the Bismarck!   (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg61147#msg61147)  :D

Does this count as kit?!?!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 21, 2007, 11:09:02 pm
This is what I call scratchbuild - from Jimmy Woods and Alex McFadyen

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 21, 2007, 11:13:03 pm
This is what I call scratchbuild - from Jimmy Woods and Alex McFadyen

Seawell - Possibly my favourite model boat ... ever!
 Seawell on Model Boat Mayhem  (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Shows/Midlands_2004/Seawell/index.htm)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 21, 2007, 11:14:18 pm
"does it count as a kit" yes as long as all the bits arrive!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Peter Fitness on September 22, 2007, 01:27:52 am
I generally prefer to scratch build for 3 main reasons. 1) It is usually cheaper. 2) Greater choice of subjects. 3) More satisfaction.
Having said that, I do build from kits as well, although the prices of these are much higher here in Australia due to import duties and carriage costs.
Peter.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: tigertiger on September 22, 2007, 04:01:49 am
I have built two kits.

Thunder Tiger Victoria sailing yacht. This only took about 20 hours to build. It could have been done much faster, but I was in fear and tripidation as it was my first. But I did feel a bit of a fraud if asked if it was built in a factory (RTR toy) and I said 'no I built it myself'. Well I kinda assembled it, but my Chinese is not good enought to expalin this.

The second kit was a Victor Models Mary J Ward schooner, which was modified. Different sail plan, extended bowsprit and changes in detailing (inc lights). I both enjoyed and endured frustratioin with this. As getting bits in China is pig sometimes. A lot of stuff came from UK.

I am stalling embarking on my first scratch builds from MM plans. I may need to buy a lot of tools. The possibility is that in future I will go back to kits. As was said above, with a kit I get everything I need.

TT
All at sea in China.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Roger in France on September 22, 2007, 08:08:22 am
I hope we do not get into the usual row about kit .v. scratch. I do both and they are always a source of fun and challenge....just different.

There is also a variation. What about those of us who take a kit designed as a static model and make it a powered RC job? I have seen some excellent examples on this Forum and elsewhere.

At present I keep picking up and putting down a build I have started and where the sheer smallness of the hull causes acute problems. It is a Hellier model of the QE 2.

Roger in France.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Captain Anonymous on September 22, 2007, 09:20:40 am
This is what I call scratchbuild - from Jimmy Woods and Alex McFadyen





You see Colin, Even Jimmy does not build everything, our good friend Gordon does all the photo etching for him, I build 90% of my models, I buy in some of the very small guns , like quad 40,s and Orlicoms, so you have to put it down as , im not a scratch builder. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: RickF on September 22, 2007, 09:32:21 am
Don't you think this discussion/argument/feud/vendetta/ has gone on long enough? I consider myself a scratch builder, but I've never made a propeller or sterntube in my life. I also buy my radio control equipment RTR - not even in kit form. I also buy in fittings when they are suitable or when I cannot possibly make them myself. A friend with a lathe does any complicated turning jobs for me.

Does this disqualify me? Quite frankly, I don't give a ****! I enjoy model-making and that should be the only criterion.

Rick
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: roycv on September 22, 2007, 09:58:55 am
Hi Bunkerbarge, I completely endorse your comments, I was about to write in similar vein.  It is the final model that counts.  Good and accurate assembly a nice clean paint finish and well observed detail are the real hallmarks of a good model maker.
Scratch-building does not imbue a model with anything special, I have seen some embarrassingly awful models that were scratch built.
I agree with Bryan Y. that if there is no kit for it you have to D.I.Y.
But I can tell you a tale about that.

A friend some 20+ years ago researched a boat, nobody had one, the plans from Maritime Museum were a small fortune and he built his own and I actually have that model and run it myself, having bought it from his estate, after his death at only 44.

The following Christmas It was a free plan in Model Boats magazine.  Now it seems everyone has a Harbour Defence Motor Launch.

So there you are, you have your unique boat and then it gets commercialised.  How do you feel about it?

I had to stop it being thrown on the fire so to speak.  But that in itself gives a clue as to why some want this exclusivity.

Any comments?

regards to all Roy

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 22, 2007, 10:05:37 am
Quote
You see Colin, Even Jimmy does not build everything, our good friend Gordon does all the photo etching for him, I build 90% of my models, I buy in some of the very small guns , like quad 40,s and Orlicoms, so you have to put it down as , im not a scratch builder.

If you look at my earlier post Captain A, I referred to the traditional definition of scratchbuilding and then said that the definition is more elastic these days. So, yes - I would consider Jimmy to be a scratchbuilder. At the other extreme, if somebody has bought a kit, made it out of the box and then added a few home built items to give it extra "colour" then I wouldn't consider it scratchbuilt. The line between the two is blurred as somebody else has quite rightly said. But as Rick F says, who cares? I prefer to build most of the model like you but I draw the line at anchor chain and propellors and some fittings that I don't have the tools or skills to make. Sometimes I'll make the stern tubes sometimes not depending on the model.

From the comments we have been seeing it would seem that certain people feel the need to go on the defensive if they haven't built everything themselves and that is total nonsense. There are still competitions around that people enter and if you have a competition you have to have rules and definitions to reflect the amount of work put into the model to enable it to be judged. That's why there are different classes - to be able to fairly compare like with like. In the ME Exhibition Jimmy may have lost a few marks for his photo etchings, I don't know, but when you look at the sheer quality of the model there is no question that it deserved its Gold Medal. I know many modellesr who scratchbuild at the highest level and none of them look down their noses at people who build kits or semi kits. They recognise that everyone has their own preferences, skill levels and amount of time available for modelling. It's just all different aspects of the hobby we all share and enjoy.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Shipmate60 on September 22, 2007, 10:21:36 am
This survey is interesting as a poll, but is getting boring as to what is scratch building, and some of the prejudices come out.
My opinion is simple.
I couldn't care less, if the builder is happy with his model then so am I.
This is after all a HOBBY.
You remember, for relaxing, having fun and meeting other like minded people.
I have made some good friends and modelling keeps me out of the pub (as I tell the boss)
Just enjoy it.

Bob
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: DickyD on September 22, 2007, 10:27:49 am
This survey is interesting as a poll, but is getting boring as to what is scratch building, and some of the prejudices come out.
My opinion is simple.
I couldn't care less, if the builder is happy with his model then so am I.
This is after all a HOBBY.
You remember, for relaxing, having fun and meeting other like minded people.
I have made some good friends and modelling keeps me out of the pub (as I tell the boss)
Just enjoy it.

Bob
My sentiments exactly Bob. Its a fun hobby in which I've made many friends. Some take it too seriously. O0
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Captain Anonymous on September 22, 2007, 11:52:13 am
Colin, It is diffecult to put in to words what every one can understand, I am not having a go at kit builders or scratch builders , each to his own, but I got hounded off this site by one of your members for saying I was a scratch builder, I changed my name and came back after a pm from martin, so now I say im not a scratch builder and I do buy a few parts, at nearly 69 I think thats not to bad, ;D ;D
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: J.beazley on September 22, 2007, 11:57:28 am
Im with both Richard and Bob on this without this great HOBBY and wonderful FORUM i wouldnt of met some great like minded people.

I enjoy what i do wheither it be scratch building or buying bits and bobs already done each to there own  ;) ;D

Im just glad the Forum is here to share my interest with the rest of the world O0

Jay
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on September 22, 2007, 12:30:53 pm
Can't quite seem to find a suitable button.....  you see, I build partly from kit-parts, but before  they've become part of the kit that I'm building. The other  (i.e. non-kit) parts therefore must be scratch-built, but they consequently become kit-parts afterwards. So I guess it's really scratch building.....partly............or is it?

(so go pick the bones out of that  lot.  ;))

Last three builds were:

Model Slipway "Dutch Courage"
Model Slipway "Kawcab"
Model Slipway "Coaster"

Predictable? Moi??!!

FLJ  8)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 22, 2007, 12:50:14 pm
a bit like semi-scratch, FLJ?

At the end of the day, those who build scratch do so because they have 1 the time, 2 the skill, 3, the balls to even attempt it (in the case of the seawell),

those who build kits do so probably because they see a particular model on the shelf and think "I like that one" next thing is, its on the workbench, plans pinned up on the wall, instruction book in one of 2 places, 1 -the work bench, 2- the bin!

so to sum it up why do we build what we do? answer because we do and we ENJOY doing it.

one of my favourite models I have for sailing is my Sydney Star, which was the last one I built. 
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Bunkerbarge on September 22, 2007, 12:50:47 pm
Quote
You see Colin, Even Jimmy does not build everything, our good friend Gordon does all the photo etching for him, I build 90% of my models, I buy in some of the very small guns , like quad 40,s and Orlicoms, so you have to put it down as , im not a scratch builder.

If you look at my earlier post Captain A, I referred to the traditional definition of scratchbuilding and then said that the definition is more elastic these days. So, yes - I would consider Jimmy to be a scratchbuilder. At the other extreme, if somebody has bought a kit, made it out of the box and then added a few home built items to give it extra "colour" then I wouldn't consider it scratchbuilt. The line between the two is blurred as somebody else has quite rightly said. But as Rick F says, who cares? I prefer to build most of the model like you but I draw the line at anchor chain and propellors and some fittings that I don't have the tools or skills to make. Sometimes I'll make the stern tubes sometimes not depending on the model.

From the comments we have been seeing it would seem that certain people feel the need to go on the defensive if they haven't built everything themselves and that is total nonsense. There are still competitions around that people enter and if you have a competition you have to have rules and definitions to reflect the amount of work put into the model to enable it to be judged. That's why there are different classes - to be able to fairly compare like with like. In the ME Exhibition Jimmy may have lost a few marks for his photo etchings, I don't know, but when you look at the sheer quality of the model there is no question that it deserved its Gold Medal. I know many modellesr who scratchbuild at the highest level and none of them look down their noses at people who build kits or semi kits. They recognise that everyone has their own preferences, skill levels and amount of time available for modelling. It's just all different aspects of the hobby we all share and enjoy.

I think it is interesting Colin that Martin starts this thread to generate some infornmation but it is a topic that does always seem to generate some underlying strong feelings.  I have to say I agree that sometimes you get a defensive reaction from kit modellers because they have almost certainly at some point in time been on the recieving end of an elitist attitude from a scratchbuilder.  I am certain that 99% of them are quite happy to do thier own thing and share thier skills and experiences openly and selflessly with everyone in the cause of the hobby but you cannot escape from the fact that there are a small number of scratchbuilders who look down on kit makers.  

There will always be the rivet counters in every hobby and we have to simply humour them but I think the most important thing, as has been said now by quite a few, is to simply enjoy the hobby in the way you want to enjoy it.

I'm afraid, and I know you will disagree, that judging models does not work in the best interest of the model boat hobby by the very fact that it uses the categories we are describing here.  I would like to see models judged entirely on individual merit and not forced into a category where you may well not be comparing like for like.  That way each model is judged on a set of criteria based on accuracy, finish, detail, amount of work etc, where obviously a well built scratchbuild will score better than most kits but you would also get not so well put together scratchbuilds scoring worse than heavily modified kits.  At the moment a model entered in the scratchbuilt category is automatically put on a higher plane than any kit, no matter how well modified, and could even, by the fact that there may be little competition in that class, come away with a prize when the far better models in the modified kit range do not do as well because there could be more to choose from in that category.  It happens and I have seen it.  

I think it interesting though that a lot of members at some point in thier modelling career have turned thier hands to both and I think it is probably true that most of us don't put our own work into categories we just do what we enjoy.  I probably spend a lot of my time modifying and improving old and second hand models, which I actually enjoy doing because I can see results a lot sooner than with completing an entire model.  Consequently I have a few Ebay purchases that have been stripped out and refitted with new internals and enhanced in various ways.  

If I didn't do this I would never have had a boat on the water but then of course non of the work that has been put into those models counts for anything when it comes to a competition!

I do think the most important aspect of such mediums as this forum is that everyone remains open minded to everyone elses standards and needs and provides help and support to anyone who requires it.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin H on September 22, 2007, 12:53:35 pm
Bob & Richard are bang on. If you are happy with what you do then go for it and s-d the rest.

In it for fun and enjoyment and as a friend of mine told me during a similar debate ` If you want to scratch build first grow your tree`. This from a man who tried and failed to build a kit.

One more piont, on a lighter note Positive will that pen ever run dry?

Yours Colin H.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 22, 2007, 01:01:34 pm
Bunkie, having built the Najade kit, and making a PIGS EAR of it, requiring a user on here to fix it for me, I thaught I'd never build another one again, so my neptun was a commissioned build, however I did tackle the Sydney Star, and had the build logged on RC GROUPS, with some pics hosted on a parrallel thread on here, and Im glad i tackled it.  There still issues that when I look back I can sit and say I could have done that better and oh I did that wrong, yet when someone builds scratch, credit to them as I couldnt do that, Im the first to admit I aint got that kind of skill.

What gives me the pleasure however is seeing my model slide down the slipway, hit the water and stay the right way up when she gets wet for the first time.

As for buying second hand models and re-working them, that too has its own challenges, more so than kits in someways as you dont know what the modeller has done to them in the past during their build.

colin as for bunkie's pen drying up, last time I looked at it, it had feathers on the end of it, with blotting paper ready to hand! :P
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 22, 2007, 02:10:44 pm
Some good points there Bunkerbarge and I would agree with most of them. However, the fact that we have got the classes we have in the MPBA resulted from practical difficulties in trying to judge between boats of different types on a fair basis. As Scale Secretary back in the 80's I was landed with the job of trying to pull all the differing viewpoints together and draft out the new Scale Rules which were subsequently approved by the membership so maybe it's all my fault! (although they have been modified since). Similar strongly argued discussions revolved around how you could design a course which was fair to large and small boats alike - you can but it takes some skill.

It must be remembered that the scale model boating scene was much more competitive in those days and many of us used to travel up and down the country during the season to attend regattas. A place in the National Final was something to be keenly fought over. Yes, we had the rivet counter types, pothunters we called them, but most people seemed to have a good time all the same.

These days the emphasis has shifted away from competition towards open sailing events which reflects a changed approach to the hobby. The MPBA competition is a shadow of its former self. Also, putting on a decent competitive regatta is much heavier on manpower than that required for an open event and people are less willing to spend their time on the organisational side as opposed to simply running their boats. But I still enjoy steering round a well designed and challenging course which tests my shiphandling as opposed to just running my boats aimlessly up and down the lake which I soon find rather boring but others seem to be very happy to do.

I do take your point about annoyance being caused by a duff boat getting an award in a low entry class when there is a glut of talent in another class in the same event but that is a function of first past the post judging. The traditional answer has been to build something better yourself and raise the overall standard. There are other methods of judging though which can be more appropriate if the intention is simply to recognise merit rather than just pick a first, second and third and that is the way we judge in the Model Engineer Exhibition. Yes, there are classes if only to recognise the different types of model. After all, no kit, however well assembled and finished, is going to stand much of a chance if placed in the same class as Alex McFadyen or Jimmy Woods simply because of the vast differential in the amount of research, work and knowledge entailed. But within each class judging is to absolute standards. If three Gold Medals are merited then three get awarded. If none of the models merits a medal then none are awarded.

At the end of the day, post(!) nobody is obliged to enter a competition and if you do you can pick the ones where the judging system is in line with your preferences. Some people like to compete, some don't and I would prefer to have a choice of events rather than not.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: meridian on September 22, 2007, 02:14:36 pm
My first model, completed in July this year, was a kit, the Model Slipway "Range Safety Craft" that I adapted as an MOD Police Launch. My second model, which is currently being built, is an HDML purchased from Power Boat Mouldings as a semi-kit, and involves quite a bit of scratch-building. In between I comprehensively modified a "Dickie" tug which is just about finished. I'm not sure what the next one will be but I certainly like the look of KMB's "Antipodean".  As a matter of interest, the "Antipodean" was built in Perth, just south of Freemantle, together with its sister-ship "Never Say Never". They were built at a shipbuilder called 'Oceanfast'. My son in law thought of becoming a naval architect at one point and did his work experience with the company that designed the Oceanfast yachts, including Antipodean.

From my very limited experience I would say that I simply enjoy building model boats, it's just that different skills are used when you scratch-build. The satisfaction for me comes from the final result!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: tubby tomo on September 22, 2007, 03:45:41 pm
my last 2 builds tid tug grp hull and a tosher tug grp hull ;)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: GG on September 22, 2007, 07:55:25 pm
"So long as a man rides his hobby-horse peaceably and quietly along the king's highway, and neither compels you or me to get up behind him - pray, Sir, what have either you or I to do with it?"
Laurence Sterne: Tristram Shandy

My sentiments this subject.

Glynn Guest
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Swordfish on September 22, 2007, 08:06:02 pm
I enjoy the satisfaction of scratchbuilding and the flexibility it provides for choice of subject and scale. The ever higher cost of kits provides further inspiration for scratchbuilding  :D Generally I prefer building larger scale ( 1"=1' ) models of relatively smaller craft ( 40 ft. or under ) . I've been looking for a towboat to build in that scale and have just completed one using a Springer hull. The idea was to have a small, easily transported model, but somehow it required an 18" x 32" barge to go with it :) Just like the ladies don't like to show up at an event wearing the same dress as one or two other women, it's nice to run a model on the pond without running into several clones.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on September 22, 2007, 09:17:20 pm

FLJ has hit the nail on the head.

Shouldn't the term really be    "Scratch Designer". 

After all the wood from a plank on frame model was built by nature.   :angel:


Cheers...Ken
Title: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Microyacht on September 22, 2007, 09:22:55 pm
Design my own, then scratch build. Mark out and cut every piece of wood!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: PSSHIPS on September 22, 2007, 09:48:37 pm
My two penneth, I have built and still build from scratch latterly in order to further our range of fittings and hulls etc, but, this is one of my models built on commission for a client in the picture below. This is based on our semi kit of HMS Campbeltown and I defy anyone who says that there is NO scratch building involved here!

 I enjoyed the hobby for over 20 years just as a builder of all mediums, plastic, wood, anything possible even card and made them sail BTW, alot of these were scratch built. In the end I got to the point when I found I could make them cheaper faster and better by using commercialy available products from all suppliers, either in kit form, just a hull, or hull, plan and fitings etc. I enjoy making something that is not what it is supposed to be by making something bespoke, but, based on something already available and if not scratch build it.

 It came to a point when my main supplier wanted to retire and offered me first refusal on his busines to buy it. If I hadn't, I would not have my main source of supply and now my livelyhood. It is very hard work trying to please everyone, let alone have people snipe at you for no reason.

 The main point of my post is.

 It is upto the individual what he wants to make or do if it makes him happy and satisfied with what he/ she has made and even kit builders can say, "I made that"  Just because it comes in a box of parts that in some cases are not up to the mark and get binned, in my view, does not give anyone the right to say anything about what other people do and the people that do what they do. Neither is it up to anyone to say in open forum not to use a certain company for any reason. To me it is up to people to find what they like, ask advice before buying say a kit or whatever and then just get on with it.

 This is a hobby to be enjoyed in what ever way possible and not to have a slanging match or anything else with anyone or any thing. Things like unprovoked attacks on individuals or companies in this hobby is not required in the hobby and the offending person/ artical should be dealt with through the propper channels and not in open forum like this.

 It is up to the individual, not the biased views of others. If you are happy doing what you do ignor these types of people, like I have learned to do, to my cost on several occasions. I speak as modeller and not a busines in this thread. I am no longer a modeller in some people's eyes, but, I AM! FIRST AND FOREMOST.

 Paul. PSSHIPS/SIRMAR LTD.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on September 22, 2007, 10:43:59 pm
well that seems to have hit the nail on the head.  :)

hopefully that will kick the ladders from under the elitest crowd.

SPLAT!:P
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 22, 2007, 11:02:55 pm
Just as a matter of interest Ghost - which members do you consider to be the "elitest  crowd"? You need to be a bit careful what you are saying here I think. A lot of what Paul said is simply repeating what the rest of us have said on this thread - i.e. whatever floats your boat.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: tigertiger on September 23, 2007, 04:05:13 am

I am stalling embarking on my first scratch builds from MM plans. I may need to buy a lot of tools. The possibility is that in future I will go back to kits. As was said above, with a kit I get everything I need.

TT
All at sea in China.
Just a query: as many if not most of the tools we buy here in the U.K. are made in China, are they available in China? Or is everything exported?

Hi Bryan

There are many regualar tools here, for example I can buy a small pillar drill for around 30 quid. But mostly the tools here are of the big industrial variety. There is not DIY market.

I cannot find the smaller 'hobby tools', as there is a limited hobby market. People here, if they have the money they won't have the time. I have been unable to locate a mini table saw.

I can locate some to the factories that manufacturere milling machines etc. But they are either OCM (contract manufactureres who cannot sell to local market) or only deal with trade (in large quantities).

The other side of the coin is this. Do I really want to equip a full workshop if I am only building one or two models a year? The set up cost is high. I could have bought another few kits for that.

Last thought. A kit is easier to fly under SWMBO's radar, or explain, than a lathe. ;)
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: tigertiger on September 23, 2007, 04:35:29 am
... Neither is it up to anyone to say in open forum not to use a certain company for any reason...

Hi Paul

The only thing I have to disagree with you on is the sentence above.

I agree with you in principle that we shouldn't just 'rubbish a trader'. But there are exceptions. We had an example on another thread of a company (rogue trader) that has taken poeples money and not supplied goods.
They appear to have CCJs against them, and they have been added to a traders blacklist on another site.

There is also another 'vendor', from Wearside I think, who is copying other peoples hulls and selling them on Ebay. I think it is right that people are warned about him.

If there is a genuine reason for a warning, that can be substantiated, then a warning is always welcome.

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Roger in France on September 23, 2007, 07:18:39 am
I do not think anyone need keep silent about poor service or unsatisfactory trading, provided you tell the whole story in a fair, responsible manner and emphasise it is the experience that you had.

Exaggerating, irrationally condemning and implying that a trader is no good based on one experience helps nobody.

It is natural to want to build up your own side of the story but in fact it does not help.

Some of you know I was formerly a Trading Standards Officer and I can tell you that many, many complainants exaggerated, generalised and told downright lies. When they did I always went back to the trader and told them suggesting they may not want to do business with that customer anymore. But if the untruth is published it can be very damaging, as Paul says.

First complain to the trader and, if appropriate and only after reflection accurately share your experience. Never complain or publish your grouse in the heat of the moment. Also, be as quick to praise as you are to complain.

Roger in France.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: aestus57 on September 23, 2007, 01:42:19 pm
 Hello All,

Many years ago when I started in model boats, I built a Waveney Class Lifeboat from a kit, but unfortunately to say I didn't get much of a kick out of building it, somehow it just didn't fire the imagination. I then scratch built a Daring class destroyer HMS Diamond from Map Plans.

After that I did a scratch built TID tug, the "Richard Able" and in between renovated a 6ft Bismark which I bought as someone else's project which got too much for them. At that time the Crosby Model Club was heavily into putting on mock sea battles, with one of the guys obtaining an explosives licence, for setting off detonators as "depth charges"!!

Latest scratch build is the Mersey Docks and Harbour Company Survey Tender "Aestus" She is now on the water with only some of the fine detail work to be completed. Built from makers drawings and kindly supplied by MDHC in the 1980's

Have just obtained the plans for my next scratch build, the Salvage, Survey & Bouyage vessel TSS Vigilant, again another MDHC ship.
Much prefer scratch building as you can then model unique vessels that you have an interest in.

I do admit to using some bought in fittings, as my main enjoyment seems to come from doing the major jobs like Hull and Superstructure.

Peter
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: John C on September 23, 2007, 02:55:39 pm
Current project is a restoration/finishing off at last, of a scratch built whale catcher that I started in excess of 25 years ago and no longer have the plans for (due to a gap in model boating of about the same number of years).
Previous build was a semi scale mine sweeper to my own freelance design (I drew out the outline on a piece of ply and it grew from there) while I waited for SWMBO to make the sails for my Y2K from Waverly models which I suppose classes as a semi kit (fibreglass hull and plans).
I generally like to do my own thing, I get an idea and things grow from there. Since I regained an interest in the hobby through a friend who has since passed away and I inherited all his stuff, I just felt the need to put it to good use. But unlike him I never have been a kit basher (didn't have the funds).
Recently I've got interested in the scale sail malarky, and I confess I don't know one end of a boat/ship from another even though I was in the sea cadets and did a bit of sailing up until I hit 30, I just like mucking about with model boats and not so much the real un's.
I always got more out of the build with my previous powered models, because once it was built, I took it to a lake, if it all worked I lost interest. With the sail model (Y2k is the first working sail I've built, but I have built static models) it's a bit of a learning curve once you get them on the water to get them to sail ( and it's a nice change to get people that are interested in sailboats and the history of them come and talk to you or sit and watch fascinated rather than "how fast does it go mister") it's surprising how you get bitten.
I'm not the best of model builders (nowhere near, but I've got broad shoulders) and like to think I can manage something that looks a bit like the intended outcome even if the scale might be a bit off now and then. But I think I have re-discovered what originally drew me to making models in the first place, it was the learning how to do something new. Thanks to the internet (and Martin), places such as this forum, and the majority of people on it, make it a lot easier to gain new skills as well as some of the basic ones if you're beginner.

John C

Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin H on September 23, 2007, 07:42:20 pm
With regards to advising of poor traders I think we should bear a couple of things in mind.

(a) There are always three side to every argument your side, his side and some where in the middle the truth.

(b) the only person who never made a mistake only managed that because they never tried to do anything.

(c) Its not the mistake that is the problem its the way it is dealt with. I work as a heating & gas engineer and I make mistakes. I have found over the years that if I hold my hands up, say sorry and correct the blooper, I not only keep my clients but keep busy by reccommendations.

Yours Colin H.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: chingdevil on September 23, 2007, 10:47:48 pm
MODERATED

OK as this thread has moved from Kit or Scratch Build to accusations and name calling.


THREAD LOCKED

Brian
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 24, 2007, 08:55:42 am

Thanks for stepping in Chingdevil.

OK..... I'll spend a couple of hours reading through this thread and all the associated emails - delete ANYTHING that is not directly related to the subject - "Kit or Scratch Build - Why?"

Martin 
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 24, 2007, 11:51:29 am
Right, that's tidied it up a bit!   >:(

My original purpose for this thread was to encourage forum members to share their personal experiences with build any sort of model boat and why they've ended up with their current method of construction.  No particular discipline is "The best way to do it", it just your preferred method of achieving the results your happy with and lets leave it at that.

Remember, on Model Boat Mayhem we encourage a positive attitude to model boating and a safe harbour for model boats…… that quite a good maxim, I might use that again!

So lets  extol the various virtues of each discipline in order to encourage other to have a try too!

Topic unlocked..... but I've got my eyes on you lot!    :D

Martin  O0
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: merlin on September 24, 2007, 01:31:13 pm
As a model boat builder with some experience (started at 4yrs old, now 60, you work it out ) I find myself in agreement with many of the sentiments expressed. This is a hobby for most, and it is full of individuals al! with differing opinions on how to obtain enjoyment for themselves.       
THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE.      Nobody should be told that they are right or wrong to enjoy this wonderful hobby in whatever way they choose!

 I will point out that modellers are not dragged kicking and screaming to the judging table, or forced to take part in a regatta, it is a matter of choice for the individual if they wish to gain enjoyment in this way,and as such MUST be respected by everyone else.

Lastly I must say that probably all our hobby's traders and many professional builders were hobbyist's once!, and that without their input we would not have a debate on this subject.
 
 For the record I have built from scratch to kit and back again, and used most materials available to the modelmaker in the doing so! 
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 24, 2007, 01:40:22 pm
Via email....
I've been Scratch Building For the last 30 years.

Why 1) Couldn't find Kits of the models or types of models I wanted to build.

    2) Got fed up with rivet counters telling me that this or that wasn't right.

     So now I build ships the way I think they should be of types the rivet counters know little or nothing about, that gives me a lot of enjoyment and     very little hassle. And after well over 50 years at sea as a seaman, navigator and master in most types of v/l’s From The Grey funnel line to Tall ships, fishing in the White sea on steam trawlers and in the southern ocean on Whale catchers in the 60’s  to tramp steamers, train ferries, coasters and survey and research v/l’s I like to think I know a little about ships and the way they should look.

Last Three Builds 1) Early Masted Iron clad warship “Sultan”(plated with old beer cans “good sorce of thin aluminium” Elec Powered)

                  2) 17th Century armed naval cutter/dispatch v/l.”Merlin”

                  3) Privateer Brigatene “Freebooter”

 

Jimmy - Ye Olde Shellback
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 24, 2007, 02:31:04 pm
Via Email...

Hi Martin  not been building that long,  3 years.

Firstly purchased a model from E-Bay which some one had built to see if
I would like the Hobby, well I did. I am now restoring the e-bay model
which is a wood built Puffer, when this is done I will truly feel the
model is mine if you know what I mean.

Second model was a kit of a River star Tug, good one for beginners

Thirdly a 1/12th Lifeboat semi scratch as the hull and deck were pre made
Which I suppose the majority would be for beginners,Found that a challenge,
But when I see it on the water, my chest nearly sticks out further than my Stomach.

Fourth model waiting on me is a Vosper series III from Deans.
Been in the cupboard, nearly a year. Six weeks and I will be starting her.

The scratch building was a trial required Brain power only just qualify,

After the Vosper need to chose my next model carefully, would love a
reasonable size model of HMS Hood, that would take me into retirement
And be enough models,  ??????

I wish I had looked at this hobby before and not so late in life.
As I find it makes me think and also give you a release from every day Trials.

Hope this little bit helps.  See you at Warwick

MCat
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 24, 2007, 02:32:45 pm
Via Email...
I buy the hull for omra/fsrv  type boats and then build to suit from purchased parts from selected suppliers.
Last 3 this year - Cherokee chief mk2 and two hulls from Prestwich multiboat range.

John
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 24, 2007, 03:04:09 pm
Via Email...
I tend to build from scratch, reason -- I cant afford to buy kits. Last three builds are Louis Heloise, Y2k, and  (many years ago...Panache.) I am a bit better off now than I was when I started building, Had a family to bring up. some people may remember that thing called??? work...and now I have a garage to play in..So really my circumstances have changed, I`m looking at buying a kit, but then what else could I do with the £270...Best of luck with your survay,,, best wishes   Ken
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: spoons on September 24, 2007, 03:48:52 pm
I havent been into building as long as most, well i suppose you can say i havent even been in a dog watch yet as i have only been doing it for about two years. I prefer semi kits and am particularly fond of sirmar as there is a vast range of fittings to choose from so you can then decide at what era you want to build the ship.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: number-1 on September 24, 2007, 08:00:10 pm
Hi everyone, all my models to date have been built from kits altough I intend to build a scratch built boat some day!
last three models are Antje, G.T's narrowboat and the Milfordstar. the reason why I perfer kits is I have most of the bits what I need in the box without having to source them. cheers for now Les>
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: gerrybuilt on September 24, 2007, 10:27:42 pm
Hi Gerry - updating my Bismarck build now -  Martin Builds the Bismarck!   (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg61147#msg61147)  :D

Does this count as kit?!?!

A kit is a kit, wheather it comes in one box, or on the never never!!

How is your superstructure comming on?


Regards

Gerry
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: steve mahoney on September 25, 2007, 03:10:45 am
Tried a kit years ago (Amsterdam) and thought that I could almost do the thing from scratch – just as well. It did show me a few techniques and I picked up more from magazines and forums. The lack of a good selection of kits and fittings out here (NZ) and a decision to stick with 1/50 also helped push me to scratch-building. I probably spend much more on materials than I would on a kit and my boats are not as finely detailed as some kits but I like to have something unique.
Last 3 builds have been from shipyard plans:
Kupe - local Wellington harbour 1970s tug
Henry Cates X - modern Vancouver harbour tug
Christian Rheinauer - American ATB tug
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: glennb2006 on September 25, 2007, 10:09:10 am
For the type of boats I like to build, which are fast I/C powered boats, (Not as fast as they should be normally it has to be said!) GRP, or more recently Epoxy Resin hulls are the way forward.
Might even be Kevlar and Carbon Fibre one day soon.

Last three boats:

Prestwich Lightning. (Old FSRV fun boat)
Miami off shore boat.
Prestwich Panther.

Regards,

Glenn Barker
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: barriew on September 25, 2007, 01:54:56 pm
I don't have a preference so haven't voted! I have done scratch, built from hull and templates and built kits. Depends what I want to build and what format that is available in.

Barrie
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Hornblower1948 on September 25, 2007, 02:36:25 pm
Prefer scratch building..... then you've only yourself to blame if it sinks  ::)

 1/125 Titanic  on my slipway at the moment.... Keeping a sharp lookout for icebergs.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on September 25, 2007, 02:51:55 pm
Prefer scratch building..... then you've only yourself to blame if it sinks  ::)

 1/125 Titanic  on my slipway at the moment.... Keeping a sharp lookout for icebergs.

Has anyone ever made a model of the Iceberg? An IC Iceberg how "cool" would that be!   :D
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: dougal99 on September 25, 2007, 02:57:44 pm
Prefer scratch building..... then you've only yourself to blame if it sinks  ::)

 1/125 Titanic  on my slipway at the moment.... Keeping a sharp lookout for icebergs.

Has anyone ever made a model of the Iceberg? An IC Iceberg how "cool" would that be!   :D

I did but SWMBO wouldn't let me keep it in the freezer  O0
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: mac.one on September 25, 2007, 05:20:09 pm
Hi All
         Have done both probably prefer scratch on grp hull.
Currently doing total rebuild on an old Graupner kit fireboat wesser when finished she will come with gas tight bridge as she was after her major refit
         Last 3 builds have all been submarines a Victor 2 class on a grp hull an engel lafayette and the engel U47 all had static dive systems.I probably enjoyed the Victor 2 build the most as i had to source all the drawings and pic's myself. The hunt for information can be as exciting as the build.
         As to what's next i keep promising myself i'll start my fleetscale Bismarck I know it's going to be a long build and yes i've been researching the ship for years.
                                             Regards Julian.

                                    :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: roycv on September 25, 2007, 05:40:02 pm
Hi all, model shops devoted to aircraft are still in business and sell kits, probably lots in fact.
Perhaps our model boat shops went out of business with just a few exceptions because we have been scratch building for quite a few years now.
We just want the R.C. motor and props, glue etc.  There is not much business in selling the etc.!

I visit our model aircraft shop for ply, but not large pieces and find other uses for the many little packets of bits.  I used to stock up on ply at the RAF Halton show.  Not sure where to go now.
regards to all Roy

 
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Stewpo28 on September 25, 2007, 06:26:02 pm
My first attemp was a Grp hull off ebay and I scratched built the rest it ended up a gub boat of some kind or other  but it WORKED . second attempt was a Mtb from George turner it was a kit and my latest which I had a little trouble with but sorted it out was a little Clyde Puffer ki from Model Slipway Super little kit and it looks superb on the Lake.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin H on September 26, 2007, 09:52:11 pm
Following on from Roys theme about almost ready to fly planes. I was in our local model shop on a Saturday morning sometime ago when in comes a rather irate customer.

His complaint was that the ARTF he had bought the previous day had flown away on her first test flight and it must be the fault of the tranny or receiver. The shop assistant calmly asked him to produce his receipt which he did and it was then pointed out that he had bought the model at 3-30pm the day before. So asked the customer?

If your read the instructions it tells you quite clearly that you must charge the batteries for 24 hours on the first charge replied the assistant.

I watched gob smacked as he produced his plastic and bought another plane to try again.

After he had gone the assistant told me that thats how they make most of their profit and that he had actually had customers buy several models before going somewhere to learn to fly.

Not scratch or kit but funny non the less.

Yours Colin H.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: RickF on September 26, 2007, 10:04:56 pm
That reminds me of the story about irate Mum, who returned the Airfix kit she had just bought her son because when he opened the box it didn't look anything like the picture on the lid!

Rick
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 26, 2007, 10:12:38 pm
Trouble is Rick, when most people have built them it still doesn't look like the picture on the lid!
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: CERES on September 29, 2007, 01:59:45 pm
 :) :)My last three(3) models have all been kits on which I have done some of my own mods. These were:- 1840 Whaler "Charles Morgan", French Bomb vessel "Le Hussard" and I have just completed a Clyde Puffer from Model Slipway which is my very first attempt at radio control which by the way has yet to be installed once I have joined my local Model Boat Club.(Cos I know note about radio)
I must admit that my total satisfaction was the scratch build of the Thames Barge "Will Everard" which I renamed "Welcome" since it was for a Arthur Ransome appreciation friend(Swallows & Amazons) All machinery being made of the inards of old alarm clocks.
So, I shall be attempting some more scatch build. O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Colin Hyam on September 30, 2007, 08:23:02 pm
Being new to model boats I prefer to build from scratch, using and developing skills as I go along;  it follows on nicely from building doll's houses and wood turning.  Having said that, I have recently built Al Khubar from a kit and enjoyed doing so.

On balance, I am not in a hurry to get on the water so scratch building provides me with a more leisurely activity and a challenge which is not necessarily provided by a kit.  If at the end it floats - then its a successful build!

Colin H
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: purser.ch.stwd on October 03, 2007, 02:21:05 pm
I prefer sratch.Out of the fortythree builds I have done over a period of 40 years I think only three were kits and they were the first three boats ever built.

With scratch you can do your own thing from the begining providing you plan carefully. Or modify as you go along as I do.

Last three boats built. Lady Lauren (Tug) Waverly Keep) Pipecarrier and Four barges All were scratch built.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: modelman66 on March 12, 2008, 07:05:47 pm
   O0 kit build easier but can be very expensive not much money myself but poverty is the mother of invention and it can be fun making parts from basicly junk lying around.check my boat for example not by any means perfect but o.k.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: regiment on March 30, 2008, 04:41:15 pm
iscratche build my boats no plans no scale so far 6 ft battleship sold also 7 ft container boat sold now making destroyer4 ft  only things i buy is the split pins for stantions and shoe eyelets for portholes also the paint and glue i buy b@q no complaints so far look great on the water regiment
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: Ghost in the shell on March 30, 2008, 05:08:03 pm
as for scratch builds, the closest I have done is Nord Icelandia, taking the hull of an old osv (thank you stavros) and turning it into a research ship.

there are some parts that I could have done better, but on the whole I like what I have done and as a project, it worked.
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: boatmadman on March 30, 2008, 07:20:21 pm
Any pics of your builds regiment?

Ian
Title: Re: Kit or Scratch Build - Why?
Post by: piratelenn on March 31, 2008, 12:09:45 am
Both...I like to see how other folks design and then modify to suit my tastes and budget.
Recent builds:
Two scratch built tugs
Scratch built mono hydro
Soling 1m kit (one of my current builds)
Two 1m sailing hull plugs for moulds (scratch
Mary J Ward kit to modify for the next build.