Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 01:46:22 pm

Title: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 01:46:22 pm

This British Airways Jumbo 747 took off from London Heathrow an hour ago (13.35) heading for Denver, Colorado and has for the past 30 - 40 minutes circling over the Trough of Bowland and just south of the lakes and into Morecambe bay and now on it's 4th loop heading north.


Are there any aviation aficionados that might know what she is doing.


I can only surmise that there is either a mechanical emergency or a medical emergency on board and they are dumping fuel over the Morecambe bay before heading for Manchester to land...god bless them all on board, for this is quite scary when you live directly under the flight paths from London and Europe to the USA/Canada and other points west.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 01:48:42 pm
and she was flying low at between 19 - 15,000 feet at 320 knots……….well below what she would have been on a routine flight 30 minutes into her journey.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: raflaunches on November 01, 2018, 01:52:02 pm
Does sound like there is an issue and they are burning off fuel- as far as I’m aware civilian airliners can’t dump fuel so they have to spend a while burning it off- the lower the altitude the more fuel you use.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Netleyned on November 01, 2018, 02:00:49 pm
Coming back South again.
Should have dumped her fuel
On the Frackers.
Ned
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 01, 2018, 02:04:51 pm
BA are flagging the flight as 'significantly delayed'. to 15:20
Medical emergency would seem to be a strong possibility.

Colin
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: gingyer on November 01, 2018, 02:07:12 pm
it's not a terrorist threat or an urgent medical, if it was then it would have gone to Prestwick,


Prestwick is the northern diversionary airport.


Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 01, 2018, 02:09:15 pm
Apparently the 747 does have fuel dumping capability. Not all commercial airliners do.

Colin
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: derekwarner on November 01, 2018, 02:15:09 pm
Contingencies such as medivac's or terror related, still have to attain a safe landing weight.......


I understood all commercially built aerofleet planes were capable of dumping fuel



The airborne dumping of fuel it is more common  >>:-( than we are told
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 02:36:17 pm

she has landed safely at Heathrow, at 14.33 hours...……


I rang British Airways AT 13.50 and was told that "a press release would be issued later once the aircraft was safely down"


very interesting
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 02:43:27 pm

this was taken by a spotter at Heathrow as she landed, and a release says it was a "technical " issue" and her estimated time of departure is now 18.00 hours....….


I wouldn't want to be getting back on board, lol.


either that or I'd be getting laced up on Southern Comfort, lol.  or in Dereks case..gud ol' Bundaberg, hic.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 02:51:58 pm
got to say though, they are beautiful old faithful aeroplanes.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 03:03:43 pm

For those with YOUTUBE and interested she certainly made news this afternoon......here she is landing safely, thank god.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJIoq7MiZBc
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 01, 2018, 03:45:56 pm
Well, all the engines and wheels still seem to be attached.   Depending on which approach is operating one glide path into Heathrow is close to us.  Often wonder if one day I will find an undercarriage in the veg patch.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Arrow5 on November 01, 2018, 04:48:07 pm
   How about blue ice?  Seems it is organic , good for garden :embarrassed:
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 01, 2018, 05:04:45 pm
   How about blue ice?  Seems it is organic , good for garden :embarrassed:


   A friend, who has a smallholding a few miles from Gatwick  on the southern approach used to find the sheep in his field had a very strong smell of aviation fuel on their wool .
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: derekwarner on November 01, 2018, 06:06:15 pm

I think this link will explain quite a lot...also a valid reason why Aviation Fuel is measured as a weight in kilograms over a volume in litres.........


However this itself is a conundrum  O0  [the fuel is pumped onboard in a volume measured in liters, the specific gravity and temperature of the fuel is inputted manually and the computers then display the fuel capacity in kilograms]


I have learned a few things.....it really boils down to the plane must be able to land above terminal speed and before the runway converts to a swamp patch  :o

Derek



https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C2CHBF_en-GBAU813AU813&q=do+jet+liners+dump+fuel+before+landing&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju8J-14rPeAhULiHAKHb4mC14QvgUIKigB (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C2CHBF_en-GBAU813AU813&q=do+jet+liners+dump+fuel+before+landing&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju8J-14rPeAhULiHAKHb4mC14QvgUIKigB)


There is also a tale in the Book by the Qantas Captain Richard deCrespigny when his A380 lost an engine and requested an emergency landing back in Singapore ...
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 08:52:07 pm



There is also a tale in the Book by the Qantas Captain Richard deCrespignywhen his A380 lost an engine and requested an emergency landing back in Singapore ...



the question is, Derek…….was he granted permission or did he have to  fill out forms in triplicate before he was allowed, lol
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: derekwarner on November 01, 2018, 09:15:47 pm
True, it was a would like the script from Are You Being Served  %)


' deCrespigny......Shanghi,,,,,,,this Qantas QF2 ...request permission to make emergency return & landing at Shanghai........

Shanghai radio.........why would you want to return so soon....brand new A 380 aircraft ...the Flagship of the  Qantas fleet O0

Shanghai radio.....this is deCrespigny.......one of the brand new Rolls Royce engines has just fallen off <*< '


So there was an issue in jettisoning fuel to get the weight down so the A380 wouldn't overrun the length of main runway at Shanghai into the ditch 
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Martin (Admin) on November 01, 2018, 10:08:23 pm


YouTube - Fuel Dump: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9oqi6HteJg
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: BrianB6 on November 01, 2018, 10:22:38 pm
At least this pilot did not get on the aircraft!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46062122
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 01, 2018, 11:15:11 pm

heard about that one earlier...….he should be jailed for that...…...any car driver would...…..


I wonder if his  co pilot or flight engineer would have let him loose at the controls, as it seems that those on the crew bus weren't willing to stop him...….absolutely appalling >>:-( <*<
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: g4yvm on November 02, 2018, 09:18:17 am
Fuel is measured in kilos because the energy is per kilo not litre.  Litre is a volume, so varies with temperature.  Kilo is always a kilo.  We burn kilos per hour to get the thrust, not litres.  It is sold in litres but measured onboard in kilos.


Not all airliners can dump because they dont need to.  Airbus for example, certainly the 320/21 series can land at any weight they can take off at, so no need to dump at all...so they cant.


Blue ice is caused by leaking rackosan fluid from the toilets.  It is neither nice nor normal...it suggests a leak.  Airbus no longer use that system for toilets anyway and id be a bit surprised if Boeing did.


Sheep covered in fuel is simply not right.  The stuff evaporates before it hits earth and anyway, dumping is not done over built up areas and certqinly not on finals...we arent daft you know. They.might whiff of exhaust fumes but i doubt that. Probably just psychological on the part of the farmer


David


Airline pilot



Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: malcolmfrary on November 02, 2018, 09:20:21 am
heard about that one earlier...….he should be jailed for that...…...any car driver would...…..


I wonder if his  co pilot or flight engineer would have let him loose at the controls, as it seems that those on the crew bus weren't willing to stop him...….absolutely appalling >>:-( <*<
From actually reading the article in the link -
Quote

The first officer pleaded guilty to exceeding the alcohol limit at Uxbridge Magistrates' Court on Thursday.


Japanese broadcaster NHK reported that police were alerted by the driver of a crew bus who smelled alcohol on the pilot.
It would appear that he was to have been one of the pilots, rather than THE pilot, and he was spotted on the bus and reported by probably the one person on the bus who knew who to report him to.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: ballastanksian on November 03, 2018, 12:17:12 pm
Contingencies such as medivac's or terror related, still have to attain a safe landing weight.......


I understood all commercially built aerofleet planes were capable of dumping fuel




The airborne dumping of fuel it is more common  >>:-( than we are told


My Father used to work in the downs on forestry work and often smelt the kerosene from liners dumping excess on their way into the London airports.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: aeronut on November 03, 2018, 01:07:27 pm
Aircraft aren't allowed to dump fuel anywhere, except in a real emergency.  There are designated fuel dumping areas, which are normally over water.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 03, 2018, 01:22:11 pm
I think the smell is from the engine exhausts, more probably from older planes. I used to notice when leaving my car at Gatwick that there was sometimes a slight oily film on it after a week although that doesn't seem to happen now.
Would that be correct?
Colin
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: g4yvm on November 03, 2018, 01:32:42 pm
There is no emergency that would warrant random dumping.  If youve got time to dump you fly to a designated area and if you havent got time to dump, trust me, you have far more urgent things to do than watch fuel pour out



Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: warspite on November 03, 2018, 02:16:44 pm
I visit Manchester airport every so often, and some terminals (T1 and T3) suffer from jet exhaust leaking into the corridors through the air conditioning, can be quite powerful at times
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 03, 2018, 02:28:15 pm
FROM PPRnNe net forums;- Incident at Heathrow.

Quote
There is a story told about that one.
One of my favorites that deserves to be true. As the 707 struggled into the air the exchange went something like this.
"Clipper*** do you have a problem?"
That's affirmative Boy."
"Roger, climb straight ahead, the sky is yours call me back when able."
after a few moments the controler spotted a yellow mist behind the aeroplane."Clipper *** are you dumping fuel?"
"That's affirmative Boy."
"Are you aware that you are flying over Windsor Castle?"
"That's arffirmative Boy. You got a phone there?"
"That's --er. Affirmative."
"Well, would you like to call the Lady and ask her if she wants the fuel or the Whole Goddam Airplane!"


[/font][/size]


 Obviously from the days when Pan Am was still around.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 06, 2018, 08:11:41 pm

but this one is in dire trouble...…..



took off from Heathrow a while ago and declared a  General Emergency alert about 2 hours ago and did an immediate 180 over the Outer Hebrides and headed back for Heathrow, since then she has been circling north west of the airport,


its a fascinating but scary pp.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 06, 2018, 08:27:03 pm
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7675849/british-airways-flight-la-uk-emergency/
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 06, 2018, 08:29:20 pm
 :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 06, 2018, 09:58:47 pm
After making many holding circuits it came back to Heathrow area and did not land but has done another long loop up over the shetland isles and is now turning back and forth over the North Atlantic.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Arrow5 on November 07, 2018, 12:31:30 pm
What happened next ? {:-{
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 07, 2018, 12:58:22 pm
  Looking at yesterdays flight log it must have landed  at Heathrow   The log says 6th Nov   "flight diverted "  and then flight time 4Hours 41 mins . The flight track shows it never having left the UK. coastal waters.    https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW269.  The continuing track showing it going out over the atlantic on route live yesterday was kidology to put the media off the scent of what was obviously a problem . What the issue was has not been made public.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Arrow5 on November 07, 2018, 01:21:07 pm
Thanks Baldrick.  Can we/somebody ask "the worlds most secretive airline"? :D 
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 07, 2018, 01:59:06 pm
all that is said is that an engine 4 fault triggered the return to Heathrow.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 07, 2018, 02:08:09 pm
After making many holding circuits it came back to Heathrow area and did not land but has done another long loop up over the shetland isles and is now turning back and forth over the North Atlantic.

at one stage the flight tracker showed that she had indeed landed and was at zero feet doing 19 knots along the runway.....……..mind you idiots at papers like the Sun would not have equated that as a landing  and taken any further flight recording as gospel...……..


if you told the Sun that flight MH370  was still airborne , they'd believe you, just as they believe Elvis is still alive.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Netleyned on November 07, 2018, 02:34:59 pm
Elvis is still alive.


Running the Graceland Chippie in
Knott End :D :D :D
Ned
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 07, 2018, 07:29:08 pm
at one stage the flight tracker showed that she had indeed landed and was at zero feet doing 19 knots along the runway.....……..mind you idiots at papers like the Sun would not have equated that as a landing  and taken any further flight recording as gospel...……..


if you told the Sun that flight MH370  was still airborne , they'd believe you, just as they believe Elvis is still alive.


 But after the landing the flight tracker then showed her back on her original route and was plotted over Harris turning NW.  At 10.00pm when I logged off the tracker was showing her several hundred miles out into the North Atlantic just south of Greenland on a north circle  when in fact she was firmly on the black stuff at TW6  .The tracker was also still showing her original outgoing track as well as the phantom second sortie.  All totally impossible of course because of the 4 hours of stooging around to lighten for landing she would never have got half way.
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Neil on November 07, 2018, 10:39:16 pm
I am fixated by the site...…….quite interesting to watch......especially as we are right under the flightpath of most of the northern bound US  and further afield journeys to the east......a constant troop of planes going over. :-))
Title: Re: ONBOARD EMERGENCY PERHAPS
Post by: Baldrick on November 08, 2018, 12:33:44 pm
We are situated on a direct line between Heathrow and Gatwick.. With traffic from both, on flight departures, on approach and glide path, in holding stacks and just overflying I can't watch the tracker for long because it does my head in.   >>:-(