Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => The "Black Arts!" ( Electrics & Electronics ) => Topic started by: tizdaz on January 07, 2019, 02:12:34 am
-
Hi guys, ok at the mo i have a simple on/off power switch which is similar to this:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1qtK62U_TOyk237Tlp7aJ_qRo6GKYawwwrUMGxJARV_Ry4qWDqQ)
But i want to use something like this one off ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SmartSwitch-12V-24V-22mm-IP67-Steel-LED-Illuminated-ON-OFF-HALO-Button-Switch/142394830989?hash=item212764b08d:m:mNFmbyjP43NOsbKwNL_UxdA:rk:1:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SmartSwitch-12V-24V-22mm-IP67-Steel-LED-Illuminated-ON-OFF-HALO-Button-Switch/142394830989?hash=item212764b08d:m:mNFmbyjP43NOsbKwNL_UxdA:rk:1:pf:0)
but im not sure how i would connect it up, it shows a daigram but im a little confused by it as my current switch is just wired using the positive wire from battery?
heres the diagram:(https://www.seebay.co.uk/media/catalog/product/e/x/example129_6.png)Any ideas?
Cheers :)
-
Illuminated switches, as well as the normally expected switch, contain the light source that needs power so they need a bit of extra wiring to get the power to the light.
Internally, it connects between the switch terminals marked "+" and "-", as shown, it lights when the switch is operated.
If it needs to be on permanently, move the purple wire from "C" to share with the yellow wire on "NO".
-
Oki doke, thanks 🙂
-
couldnt copy and past mods delete this
-
will these switches be ok to use with a fully charged SLA as it will push out around 14v on full charge?
this switch in particular states 12/24v but some of the others that are similar just state 12v, will these be ok to use as a main power switch from my 12v SLA?
cheers
-
100% safe
dave
-
Switch is rated at 5A maximum current - this is more important than the voltage.
DM
-
Switch is rated at 5A maximum current - this is more important than the voltage.
DM
The voltage gets a bit crucial when considering the thing lighting it up. Too little, not bright enough, too much, a brief, bright, life. While the switch might handle more than 12 volts, the light might not, and the internal light on switches tends to be not replaceable. Sealed for life.
A 12/24 volt type "might" have a constant current circuit limiting the lamp current (might be an LED. might not) rather than a simple resisitor, or it might just be fainter on 12 volts. Anybody's guess.
-
Battery im using is a 12v 22ah, so would i need a switch that states 22amps or more? & obv 12v.
-
maybe something like this as it states 25amp: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SmartSwitch-12v-25A-Illuminated-LED-Square-Panel-Switch-Rocker-Switch/142030982058?hash=item2111b4cbaa:m:m55QNhPkmg-IBb77DM5I_SA:rk:2:pf:0 ?
-
Battery im using is a 12v 22ah, so would i need a switch that states 22amps or more? & obv 12v.
The 22aH refers to the capacity of the battery. Think of it as being a statement of the size of a fuel tank. It tells you almost nothing about the current that it can deliver, what it can deliver has sweet nothing to do with what any individual bit of circuit will draw.
Since almost every switch made is good for 12 volts, that is taken care of. Switches do have two other ratings.
One is for how much current that they can carry when settled "on".
The other is for how much they will reliably live through when changing state.
When the contacts are close together, they can arc, this usually happens when the circuit is being broken as the flowing current hops over the small air gap. But most switches have a bit of contact bounce, and a single operation is more like a round of applause, being a series of makes and breaks.
The light part will take less than 100mA, whether it is a GoW bulb or a LED with a limiter, and is fairly independant of the load being switched.
Usually, what will handle a lot, will handle a little, so the linked one should work fine provided that the panel it mounts on is strong enough.
-
If you want to put more then the stated amperage through a switch why not do it the easy way m8 same as I have done on the Happy Hunter and will do so on the Tid as well.....go out and buy a relay rated at 70 amp this will handle the power you need
relay numbers
86 power up from batt THIN lead
87 to the NEG of the batt
30 power from the poss side of the batt
87 Power to your distribution board or fuse box
ebay item no 264106020754
Then it you can use your switch to power the boat as when you flick it to ON then the relay will power up the boat...
Dave
-
Oki doke, cheers guys for info much appreciated!
How you getting on Dave with your TID, you done much more to it? I had a little break from it but now im back at it, hoping to get most of it done for around summer time 🙂
-
Not touched it for around 6mnths been building Raf rescue launches MIGHT put it up for sale soon as it is
Dave
-
Ahh shame fella 🙁 well if you do sell it im sure new owner will be happy, you done good job on it so far.
-
Just asking if ther is any reason to go for an illuminated switch? Sometimes I've done it and looked back and wondered why. It looks a very complicated subject from these posts. For me it's a bit easier, I work-out what is the likely current you will pull (max of your ESC, or fuse rating) and choose a switch that roughly covers that. For me, I usually visit the local motor factors for "big" switches. Their "pearly wot-not" range or similar usually has big toggles, pushbuttons etc and there's usually a big toggle switch with a 25A+ rating which is just about all I could think we would usually need. They're usually quite cheap. If you're confused about switches, I'd imagine including relays etc on the circuit would be more confusing.
-
Hi RST
i want an illuminated switch just as a visual aid just so im sure its switched off. But i have a P107 board and reading the info on this says i can use pretty much any switch, so ive fired a mail to action for more info 😉
-
Having read the splurge on the P107 you can defo use ANY switch on the board as it says so....all you need is the connector to the circuit board ....if you allready have a micro switch with it all you need to do is to connect your switch to where the micro switch was
Dave
-
Having read the splurge on the P107 you can defo use ANY switch on the board as it says so....all you need is the connector to the circuit board ....if you allready have a micro switch with it all you need to do is to connect your switch to where the micro switch was
Dave
i was thinking it would be ok but want to double check with someone with more knowledge with this kind of stuff so cheers for that Dave ;)
just one more question.. Originally i had my power switch inline inbetween the battery & the P107 (i didint use the switch on the p107) so it isolated any power going to any of the curcuits etc including the P107 which was the first port of call so to speak. If i use only the power switch on the P107 (& remove my inline power switch) does this mean that the P107 will still be drawing any current from the battery with the switch in the off position? as ive read elsewhere that some circuit boards still draw a small amount of current even with the power switched turned off?
cheers again :)
-
With modern transistors that really do switch off, the residual current draw will be indistinguishable from that which the battery leaks naturally.
In a big boat with a big battery, not a problem. A power on indicator light would probably drain more power overall than the switch circuit lying dormant.
While caution is generally a good thing, there is such a thing as over-thinking yourself into a problem that was not there in the first place.
The only time that I can remember thinking an indicator light would be useful was when sorting a tug with a small black switch on a smart black panel partly hidden under a deck. And that was the switch on the "other" ESC.
-
P107 already has indicator LEDs which light up when power is applied. Would it not be possible to contrive to install it where one or more of those can be seen e.g. through a cabin window or portlight? If not then it would be relatively easy to remove one and refit it onto a two-wire extension, then mount that LED where you can see it.DaveM
-
ok thanks guys for info helped alot, im going replace the one that comes with the P107 & replace with an illuminated one off ebay as all i would need to do is fit a futaba male connector to it which i have plenty of :)
-
In my models which use a mixture of Lipo's and SLA batteries I fit illuminated on /off switches[ from C S ]and or a voltage / current usage meter to display what the current battery statues is and the voltage drawn whilst out on the lake , as I spend an inordinate amount of time dragging back other club members who didn't bother to charge their batteries correctly with my Tug .
At £5 its money well spent before leaving the waters edge in my view
-
Ivor, is there a way of indicating when my Electronize ESCs are in the stopped position while on the lake? There seems to be a point just off stopped where the ESCs buzz and I am sure that is not a good place to be for any length of time. A light would be good. Brian
-
Good afternoon Brian , I am flattered to think you think me a guru of this Electrikery , but I must pass the batten here to our Dave on this Forum who's help was once of great use to me and in whom I trusted , but sadly we last contact , so my next port of call if you can ever get hold of him would be Iain at component shop
I am sure there is a device that could be applied , but sadly outside of my expertise , but again my thanks . %)
-
Ivor, is there a way of indicating when my Electronize ESCs are in the stopped position while on the lake? There seems to be a point just off stopped where the ESCs buzz and I am sure that is not a good place to be for any length of time. A light would be good. Brian
Brian
There's no way I can think of, except maybe an audio amplifier and speaker to broadcast the buzzing sound. You really need to adjust the throttle trim on your transmitter while the model is on the bench to ensure that stop means stop. Depending on the model of Electronize I think you can turn a preset on the ESC to adjust the neutral setting, too.
Ivor
There's always the PM system...... 8)
DM
-
Thank you Ivor and Dave. The throttles are on the left and right sticks, so what I do is make sure the exact position on these is always found when I want to stop the motors on the lake. It would be nice to have a visual indication as well. Brian
-
Thank you Ivor and Dave. The throttles are on the left and right sticks, so what I do is make sure the exact position on these is always found when I want to stop the motors on the lake. It would be nice to have a visual indication as well. Brian
If you are using sticks without spring-centring then you're on a hiding to nothing here.
DM
-
Yes I have taken the spring off both left and right sticks because of the dual throttle control. I have been tempted to get the Graupner dual stick control on the F14 or F16 transmitter, but a bit expensive for me I'm afraid. Brian
-
Dave ......Thanks for the Nudge , but I dont look in that often so did not think of it .
Brian , I tend to agree with the Tank Steering method , but like you can't afford to go down that road and I use A Specktrum 6i .
This meets my needs of which Action units have always met , but found issues with the current suppliers sadly , however my current mostly used vessel is a Tug which gives me great pleasure as my other posts on here indicate .
I use my[size=78%] LH stick for control and RH for thrusters / sounds , and running twin 54mm Kort's manage to recover others boats on a fairly regular basis towing a system I developed along the defence boom basis and it works well and saves many tears at the local club , and if I can offer any help please give me a shout .[/size] ;)
-
Can you adjust the throttle profile on your transmitter to give a wider dead zone and/or does a little exponential in the throttle curve help?
-
If it can .......I am unaware of it [ they are Specktrum DX6i] :-)
-
I'll check out the dead zone solution, but i have quite a basic Tx. It's a JR XF631. Served me well. Brian
-
I don't think that you have either on a JR XF631.
The DX6i, on some versions at least, has expo on all the main channels except the throttle.
-
Thats not looking so good eh Brian Sorry mate
-
Put an index mark on the transmitter to show when its at neutral. Make sure that it is at the point where the reversing relay is not operated. A permanently operated relay does more harm than a faintly buzzing motor.
-
Not to worry thanks. I think Malcolm has an important point. Make sure that, at the mark on the Tx, the reversing relays have not engaged. And the other point of this is, of course, that you set the ESCs up so that the relays engage for astern and not ahead. They were, as far as I remember, the wrong way round before I changed them. Happy sailing. Brian
-
Hi guys, a bit of a bump of my old post,
I just want to make sure i wire this up correct as i didnt get around to it the last time i made this post!
So here is the switch I have bought that i want to use (along with diagram it shows) :
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61g7GQie2kL._SL1000_.jpg)
Here is my current switch that i'm using at present that came supplied with my P103, as you can see it is connected via a futaba connector, so with the Black/Red & White wires, where would i connect them to my new switch that is shown above, i want the light to come on the switch when the power is on & then off when i switch the power off?:
(https://www.componentshop.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/a550dd1a6bd3725ddd31027e74bc914e/d/s/dscf0140_opt.jpg)
Cheers!
-
If the hope is to replace the change-ove slide switch with an on-off switch with an added indicator, it isn't going to work.
The slide switch is a low current device controlling the operation of the circuit that it connects to. The illuminating switch connectos into, and directly controls, the power supply. The illumination device gets its power from the main supply. There probably wouldn't be enough current in the supply for the slide switch to work the tumbler switch, even if the on-off switch was going to provide the right functions to do the same job.
-
Unless my knowledge of SPCO switches is sadly lacking, the set-up shown will cause a straight short between the two battery poles when contacts 1 and 2 are bridged. I'm also pretty sure that the P103 isn't supplied with a switch; it's a dual Schottky diode which prevents current from flowing between two parallel batteries. You're probably confusing it with either P107 or P112 - both of which already have power indicator LEDs fitted.
DaveM
-
I don't think poles 1 and 2 get bridged.
Pole 1 (gold pin) is the negative supply to "in switch LED" and does not form any part of the switching circuit which is only between poles 2 & 3
Or at least that's how I read it - odd that it may be!
C-3PO
-
I don't think poles 1 and 2 get bridged.
Pole 1 (gold pin) is the negative supply to "in switch LED" and does not form any part of the switching circuit which is only between poles 2 & 3
Or at least that's how I read it - odd that it may be!
C-3PO
That would make sense, and I've no problems with being wrong! I would question the need for an LED indictator as part of the switch, though, especially if there's another one just down the line.
DM
-
Looks like when the switch is off the voltage does not connect between contacts 2, 3 and 1, with only the load connected via the -ve, when the switch is connected, the voltage connects from 2 to 3 and then through to the load and back to -ve, then there is a resistor and led where the power travels through 3 to 1 for it to illuminate - correct?
-
Looks like when the switch is off the voltage does not connect between contacts 2, 3 and 1, with only the load connected via the -ve, when the switch is connected, the voltage connects from 2 to 3 and then through to the load and back to -ve, then there is a resistor and led where the power travels through 3 to 1 for it to illuminate - correct?
Very much so, which is probably nothing like what happens with the slide switch which just connects the center pin to either the left or right pin.
-
it worked, i just connected it up with the black/red wires for the Pos & Neg on illuminated switch & then i connected the white lead to the other connector, no issues & works as should :)
-
Unless my knowledge of SPCO switches is sadly lacking, the set-up shown will cause a straight short between the two battery poles when contacts 1 and 2 are bridged. I'm also pretty sure that the P103 isn't supplied with a switch; it's a dual Schottky diode which prevents current from flowing between two parallel batteries. You're probably confusing it with either P107 or P112 - both of which already have power indicator LEDs fitted.
DaveM
your correct, it was the 107 i have which has a switch! & as you pointed out, LED indicators, but the power switch will be mounted above deck under a hatch for easy access to switch on/off so the LED's on the P107 wont be visible, hence why i wanted to fit this illuminated switch, but all sorted now & works good :)