Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: terry1956 on April 21, 2019, 06:39:31 pm
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hi, I have a pt boat with three Graupner brushless jet motors. Two of the motors are linked to a electronize ff40 speed controller which no longer works and needs replacing. The 3rd motor is connected to a Graupner speed controller which is powered by its own battery and uses graupners HoTT system. I don,t have a transmitter or receiver. So my question is this. How does the Graupner HoTT system work, would it be best to replace the broken electronize controller with a Graupner one which are a hell of a price, and how best to protect the speed controllers. How would the HoTT system work here. I have tried the boats graupner speed controller with a Futaba transmitter and receiver but just get beeps beeps from the controller. Is this part of the HoTT system. Can anyone help me out, thanks, michael
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Hi there
I don't know the electronize ff40 and didn't find it with a quick Google search but in general you would have to use one ESC pr. Brushless motor.
I'm using Grupner BL motor and ESC's with Spektrum system without any issues. Please note that you have to "program" the ESC (Neutral, full FWD and Full REW) for you new receiver setup. For the right sequence you have to look up the ESC manual to do it in the right.
HoTT is Graupner's new system and include telemetri but it should work with other systems except the telemetri part.
You can also replace the ESC's with cheaper ones without big problems.
BTW It would help is you described what type of waterjets you have and what type of BL motors including KV rating.
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If they're truly brushless motors, the reason that the electronize esc doesn't work is that electronize never made a brushless speed controller, only brushed
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Hi, due to the water cooling jackets I can’t see the model numbers of the motors, bar they are grauper 12v. The outer pair have been wired together and did run from the dead electronize speed controller. The center motor looks to be the only brushless one and is a grauper water-cooled moter running from its own water cooled speed controller also graupner which is making the beeping noice, I have found out that it is waiting for a return signal from a paired transmitter. ( I have ordered a Graupner HoTT transmitter and receiver to sort this I hope). So it looks like I need a good speed controller to run the two outer ( looks like brushed motors). The outer pair are both 12v taking power from two 12v battery’s wired together. The cost of this stuff is getting very expensive and I don’t wish to go mad. Just a good reasonable speed controller that will work without breaking the bank.
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Terry........visually, brushed motors are really like chalk & cheese compared to brushless motors.....individual wire connector size, the number of wires connected [3 wires as opposed to 2 wires?] etc
So a few reasonable quality digital images posted in this thread of the motors & other electrical components would assist a member to offer a more enlightened comment
Derek
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here are some pics which I hope will help
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is this the 6' PT boat Terry when did it grow another 2 motors?
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Hi, it’s a three foot boat, I do own the large one, but without motors.
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Quote....."I have a pt boat with three Graupner brushless jet motors"....Michael/Terry, from your photographs, the middle motor with 3 wires appears to be a brushless motor.....the outer 2 motors are brushed motors
Whilst you say it is difficult to read the brushed motor detail.....clearly the Graupner name is evident, so removing a motor and the waterjacket, you would be able to confirm the additional motor specification
Did the outer 2 motors ever work with the ff40 ESC?...or when did it fail & a reverse direction connection established?
Derek
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It all worked but due to not being used for a time I think the following happened. The original receiver was full of green stuff, so did not work, by passing the electronize speed controller did start the two outside motors, and I have not got a transmitter that talks to the second speed controller so can’t fire that up. I think that the electronize controller was killed off from power spikes when connecting the battery, as a lot of volts run to the unit. So it looks like I need a replacement for the electronize unit.
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Hi there, with regards the Electronize being killed off with too many volts - these speed controllers can take 30 volts plus; on a short term spike. What would have killed it off though is if you had the positive and negative round the wrong way; if, this speed controller is connected to a receiver and it gives a weird whining noise, and the motors don't turn it means it isn't receiving a signal from the receiver. I suspect if its been killed off - something like 250 volt has been put through it or as I have said the neg and pos have been around the wrong way.
John
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Terry I would forget the Hott system just get a speed contoller for the brushless and go from there. Or the same applies re the 2 outers use any radio system you already have. Whichever setup provides the performance you want be it i or 2 motors use . You should not need 3 motors. The HOTT system is way to overkill for your needs
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1330285-Graupner-s-new-HOTT-2-4GHz-system (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1330285-Graupner-s-new-HOTT-2-4GHz-system)
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hi, yes I think that three motors is over the top in a small boat, but I am trying to use this as a test bed for my other pt boat which is near 6 foot long. besides that I like things working as they should.
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Terry I would forget the Hott system just get a speed contoller for the brushless and go from there. Or the same applies re the 2 outers use any radio system you already have. Whichever setup provides the performance you want be it i or 2 motors use . You should not need 3 motors. The HOTT system is way to overkill for your needs
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1330285-Graupner-s-new-HOTT-2-4GHz-system (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1330285-Graupner-s-new-HOTT-2-4GHz-system)
maybe if so it was before my time of ownership, but glad to know that there is some protection from power perks in these things
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Looking at the labels in the pictures, its an FR30HX ESC (not really surprised that ff30hx isn't found, although there is a mention of an ff40 - which is forward only). With normal model voltages, these are difficult to break and are well protected against any voltage spikes likely to be generated. What usually kills them is relay contacts getting old and tired, or the user connecting incorrectly. Reversed battery connection is one such, as is connecting power to the motor connections. A poor ground line in the power supply can result in an ESC using the thin black wire as its return, but this is usually visually evident.
Off hand, I dont know if this model has a BEC, if it doesn't a lack of power to the input side will prevent it working.
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I seem to recall that Electronize used the suffix VR (Voltage Regulator) for their BEC-equipped speed controllers, so the FR30HX wouldn't have it. However I've yet to find a brushless ESC that didn't also have BEC so the Graupner device should supply the power for the receiver via its 3-wire Rx lead. Electronize appear to have ceased trading a while back although Dave Mainprize may still be doing repairs.
As for Graupner radios, I've never handled one or known anyone who had. They always struck me as being far too expensive for what they were supposed to do.
DaveM
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There's absolutely no need to replace the brushless ESC. The HOTT part is telemetry through Graupner RX's and works perfectly fine without...
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There's absolutely no need to replace the brushless ESC. The HOTT part is telemetry through Graupner RX's and works perfectly fine without...
my understanding is that the graupner esc needs a signal from the transmitter to confirm that it’s safe to start. At the moment all I am getting is the beep beep which shows that the esc is waiting for the safe to start signal. At the moment I am looking to replace the brushed esc with an action electronics p98 unit. Still waiting for the graupner transmitter to see if that will work.
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my understanding is that the graupner esc needs a signal from the transmitter to confirm that it’s safe to start. At the moment all I am getting is the beep beep which shows that the esc is waiting for the safe to start signal. At the moment I am looking to replace the brushed esc with an action electronics p98 unit. Still waiting for the graupner transmitter to see if that will work.
Hi Terry,
What is the model/part number of the Graupner ESC and does it have any leds on it?
C-3PO
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Hi, I can’t see the model number at all, it’s all wrapped up as you can see in the pic. There are no leds that I can see, but apart from the beep signal it’s doing nothing.
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Hi Terry,
Are you sure this is a Graupner ESC?
I think it's possible it's a Mystery ESC - doesn't look like Graupner branding...
(https://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/04/24/mystery.jpg)
C-3PO
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Have you tried programming the esc to your transmitter yet? An esc might sit bleeping if it doesn't see the correct signal at startup, the off position signal on your radio may equal a small amount of throttle on the esc so it will not intialise to stop it powering the motor for safety.Normally the esc is programmed by setting the transmitter to full throttle then switching on the receiver. The esc will normally give two or three beeps, now move the throttle stick to stop, the esc should now initialise and give out a number of beeps corresponding to the number of cells if set up for LiPos.
Jim