Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: MartinGough on April 09, 2020, 07:24:51 pm
-
[font=-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, oxygen-sans, ubuntu, cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, helvetica neue, helvetica, ヒラギノ角ゴ pro w3, hiragino kaku gothic pro, メイリオ, meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol]Hello[/font]
[font=-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, oxygen-sans, ubuntu, cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, helvetica neue, helvetica, ヒラギノ角ゴ pro w3, hiragino kaku gothic pro, メイリオ, meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol]Just starting out building an Aeronaut Queen my first ever boat build. Will post pictures as I go along.[/font]
[font=-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, oxygen-sans, ubuntu, cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, helvetica neue, helvetica, ヒラギノ角ゴ pro w3, hiragino kaku gothic pro, メイリオ, meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol]Two questions is the supplied prop shaft ok to use and what brushless motor will be ok to use.[/font]
[font=-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, oxygen-sans, ubuntu, cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, helvetica neue, helvetica, ヒラギノ角ゴ pro w3, hiragino kaku gothic pro, メイリオ, meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol]I have three motors I was thinking of using a Scorpion 3026-8 or an Axi 2826-10 or 2826-12.[/font]
[font=-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, oxygen-sans, ubuntu, cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, helvetica neue, helvetica, ヒラギノ角ゴ pro w3, hiragino kaku gothic pro, メイリオ, meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol]Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.[/font]
[font=-apple-system, blinkmacsystemfont, segoe ui, roboto, oxygen-sans, ubuntu, cantarell, fira sans, droid sans, helvetica neue, helvetica, ヒラギノ角ゴ pro w3, hiragino kaku gothic pro, メイリオ, meiryo, ＭＳ Ｐゴシック, arial, sans-serif, apple color emoji, segoe ui emoji, segoe ui symbol]Regards Martin[/font]
-
Hidden in there is this message & a whole load of characters that define the page, font etc. I really don't know how you have done that but am I right in thinking that you use an Apple as it includes fonts that I don't think are standard eg hiragino kaku gothic pro?
"Just starting out building an Aeronaut Queen my first ever boat build. Will post pictures as I go along.
Two questions is the supplied prop shaft ok to use and what brushless motor will be ok to use.
I have three motors I was thinking of using a Scorpion 3026-8 or an Axi 2826-10 or 2826-12
Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.
Regards Martin"
-
Thanks Tug Fanatic not sure what happened but I just couldn't get rid of all the mess
and I am unable to edit the post now.
Started on the hull tonight sanded most of the parts down and started to put it together.
Looking forward to the build but have to say worried about skinning the hull.
Regards Martin.
ps do we have to do the verification every time we post?
-
Will that's weird!!
All tags now removed...
Just starting out building an Aeronaut Queen my first ever boat build. Will post pictures as I go along.
Two questions, is the supplied prop shaft ok to use and what brushless motor will be ok to use?
I have three motors I was thinking of using a Scorpion 3026-8 or an Axi 2826-10 or 2826-12.
Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.
Regards Martin
-
Hidden in there is this message & a whole load of characters that define the page, font etc. I really don't know how you have done that but am I right in thinking that you use an Apple as it includes fonts that I don't think are standard eg hiragino kaku gothic pro?
Beat me to it Tug Fanatic..... except you obviously know what you're talking about! O0
-
Beat me to it Tug Fanatic..... except you obviously know what you're talking about! O0
I survive but that doesn't mean that I am an expert. I have no idea what has been going on here.
-
A few pictures of the hull. Spent a few hours rubbing down the parts before glueing to
remove the burnt edges, not sure if thats necessary or not. Used the quartz kitchen
worktop as its flat!
-
Aeronaut kits are fantastic models to put together, I’ve built pretty much everything in their range at this point, some even twice! Great kits for newbie and expert alike, always well cut and accurate, very little to go wrong!
The queen is not one of my favs but it’s still a great model, (I’ve to many cabin cruisers as is).
These boats are also highly adaptable to customisation so don’t be afraid to add details and extras, I know I always do!
On a side note my old man just finished building one of their tug kits for a member of the club...
-
To give you some inspiration this is the first classic (from their range) I built 8years ago now...
-
Absolutely stunning boats. Can you explain how you got such a lovely paint and gloss varnish finish.
What paints did you use and method etc.
Hope mine turns out half as good.
Regards Martin.
-
The paint finishes are just standard car paints from Halfords, nothing special, just the right primers for plastics/metals etc.
The varnish finish can be achieved with car lacquer as the easiest form... these boats did not have that done, they use a 2pac epoxy surface varnish designed for floors, it takes about 22-25 coats over a period of 2 weeks or so to build the layers, it’s also expensive, 1L is about £50 +thinners. It’s also not for the faint hearted.
-
Wow thats a lot of effort but I have to say worth it.
Guessing you sand between coats.
-
Done a bit more on the hull.
-
Done a little more today between other jobs. Used my steam iron to help
bend the longitudinal strips so that they are not under tension. Worked
well.
-
Been putting the hull skins on and found it hard work.
The sides weren't too bad but the bottoms are more difficult.
I have fitted them accurately where they meet the sides but
this has left we with a gap on the bottom. I will have to put
a packing strip on the inside of the hull and then do something
on the outside probably fill the gap with epoxy or epoxy a sliver
of ply or har balsa in the gap. Any ideas would be appreciated
on the fix.
-
Building on the kitchen worktop, and using the steam iron to bend the stringers...... %% %%
You're not married, are you? <*< <*<
But it's looking good. As for the gaps you have, I am of the view that if the gap is big enough to take a sliver of wood, that's what it should take, and use filler to take away any hairline cracks that remain.
Keep the piccies coming.
Greg
-
Cheers Greg
Yep you guessed it not married but the worktop is really flat so a great build surface.
Have just bought a hand steamer for clothing of Amazon for £10 which works brilliantly.
Regards Martin
-
I usually draw a center line on the keel and match up one side to fit correctly to the center line, glue that down and wait till dry, the other side I then trim in to fit the skin already attached, chamfered edges and such.
I don’t tend to get a gap, I may get a seam gap due to way one side is chamfered across the keel but nothing that cross sanding over won’t resolve to give me that perfect edge.
It’s always a bit tricky fitting skins, it usually takes a few attempts to get one right, for those really tricky bows I have a habit of screwing the skin to the keel while the glue dried, then I patch the holes before paint. Some hulls worse than other, getting the frames true, flat and square helps a lot but those base boards are far from perfect, so slight twisting can occur easy enough, fortunate tho that you can untwist it with the side skins, as the base ones don’t effect it.
Practise makes perfect.... ive been doing this for way to long now and sometimes even I make a pigs ear of it and end up glassing and patching and p38 it till it’s right! But it looks good see if u can get the 2nd skin to butt up against the first to reduce the gap, The side skins are a little oversize so you may have enough play.
-
Thanks tug tower great advice. I was going to make some new skins for the
bottom as they were in my case slightly too small but then thought fit them
then fix any issues, it's all a big learning curve. I had an idea this would be
a tough part of the build to get right. I'll keep posting and let you know how
I get on. Be good for anyone else trying this model and maybe like me for
the first time.
Regards Martin.
-
Finished fitting the bottom skins. The sides are ok but I'm left with a gap in the middle.
Have fitted supports for the unsupported parts of the skin inside the hull and will inlay
some ply tomorrow when I've rubbed it all down and had another look.
-
Hi Martin - yes, I was nervous when I fitted skins for the first time as I was with sanding the stringers and keel to profile. But I'm on my fourth hull build from scratch now and enjoy fitting the skins as they really bring the hull to life.
Too late for you now but I always start with the bottom skins. Fit one edge along the keel and secure with a screw near the transom - always do this following my first build when the skin moved when gluing and clamping and I didn't notice. I cut the skin oversize at the chine stringer and then sand back with a Perma-Grit block (must have tool!). Cut the second skin, again oversize at the stringer, and butt up to the first skin along the keel. There will be a small gap as the edge of the ply is cut square which is easily filled. I suppose you could chamfer the edges but you're still likely to get some gaps at points along the keel. Again sand back to the chine stringer. I then cut out the side skins making them oversize at the deck and at the bottom stringer. Once the glue has set sand them back to the abutment with the bottom skins and the deck. Unless using very thin ply e.g. 1mm you will need to steam the skins where they curve at the bow. As well as screws and clamps I use parcel tape (particularly at joints between skins where you can't clamp) and using this method achieve nice neat and tight joints.
Chris
-
Thanks Chris
My first build so a lot to learn. As its a kit the skins came pre cut, I did think about making my own
but thought just fir them and sort any issues. I am going to build a Bearospace Annie Schooner so
will take on board what you say for future projects. Thanks again great advice always welcome. I've
filled in the gaps tonight with some ply on edge tapered where necessary. See what it looks like in the
morning. If ok I will look at the prop shaft and rudder fitting and then seal the job with some penetrating
epoxy before final fitting of the prop and rudder.
Regards Martin.
-
Hi Martin
I got mine second hand, it has no chine or spray rails on the boat.
It's a very wet runner, the plan is to add these and repaint the bottom.
It's running a 50mm 910kv brushless, 45mm 2 blade prop with a 3S 5800mah Lipo.
A bit on the slow side for me, but plan to go to 4S as the motor etc will handle it.
It like the weight to the stern to get the bow up.
Canabus
-
Hi Canabus
Thanks for that info. Ive bought a 3673 2230kv water-cooled motor, a 70amp water cooled
esc and a 50mm 3 blade prop which I plan to run 4s hope that combination works.
What esc are you running Canabus?
Regards Martin.
-
Hi Martin
Running a Hobbyking 100A car ESC.
Canabus
-
Wow. That's going to give you a no-load prop going at over 30,000 rpm. The Queen is a fairly lightweight boat and with a 50mm prop you might find it a tad on the lively side. Here is a Youtube clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9QswNE47I) of a Queen with short bursts of the sort of performance you might expect. I guess you could always drop down to a 3s battery if things get a little too interesting.
Greg
-
Hi Greg
Thanks Greg that mad me smile. I have no ideas about motors so
went with overkill so I can drop back and end up with something
that is not stressed, guess thats what I'll end up with!
I have managed to sort the lower skins with ply on edge. I have eased
the opening for the prop shaft and rudder tube. Just waiting on my ordered
motor to finalise and epoxy the prop shaft into the hull. The prop looks very
close in the pictures but is unsupported and was resting in that position.
Wondering about attaching the motor direct or through a universal joint what
are peoples thoughts. Also looking at a replacement rudder rather than building
the one included in the kit.
Regards Martin.
-
Just for information Martin, I have been running my "Queen" on a Turnigy 3538 1050Kv motor, 50A Hobbyking water cooled ESC and a 48mm. three bladed prop.. Performance on 4S is outstanding - very fast and up on the plane in an instant. Also extremely docile at slow/medium speeds but capable of surprising the "fast electric" boys when the throttle is opened. All in all, a splendid little "Q" craft.
-
Hi Shadysadie thanks for the info, are you using the original prop shaft. Tried it today
but got bad vibration and after investigating found the shaft slightly bent so going to
replace it with something but not sure what yet.
Fitted one of the spray strips using my steamer to bend it rather than cut it, works a treat.
Realised after glueing that I had not tapered it at the front but managed to do it in situ quite
easily.
Fitted the motor which is probably a massive overkill. Made up a jig to drill the holes for the
motor which has six. I may use it to strengthen the motor mount a little.
Really enjoying building this boat probably be the first of many.
-
Thats a really nice build so far Martin :-)) Lovely woodworking skills this should be a looker when finished O0
-
Hi Martin - not the cheapest but I've standardised on the Raboesch Maintenance Free Ball-Raced prop shafts which I get from Cornwall Model Boats.
Chris
-
ChrisF
I was considering them, which one did you go for length/diameter, prop.
Any pictures of the setup?
Regards Martin.
-
This is a photo early in the build of the hull for my Fairey Swordsman 33 which at a scale of 1:12 is obviously 33" long. For this I've gone for the 450mm M5 with a 45mm 3 blade prop. I'm also building a 28" Fairey Huntsman 28 in which I'm using the M4 version. The other photo shows the prop shaft dry fitted in my River Queen which is a much smaller boat at 23" and has a much shorter M4 prop shaft.
For your boat it depends on how long the prop shaft needs to be. You need to work it out allowing for the coupling you're going to use and taking account of how far the motor and prop shafts go into it and also how far the thread goes into the prop. It's unlikely you will get the exact length required so get a longer one and cut it down.
For longer prop shafts its better to get the M5, though as said I have got an M4 for the Huntsman 28. I'd already got that though and as Raboesch are good quality and rev to 15,000 in the water I'm not expecting any problems with whip in the shaft.
Hope this helps.
Chris
-
Thanks for the reply. I was thinking the 450mm 5mm shaft and cut it down slightly
mine is about 390mm. Struggling to see a 45/50mm prop with a 5mm thread.
-
I got mine from Prop Shop. They will make anything that you want.
Chris
-
I tend to stick with the stainless steel slimline M4 props shafts (Calder craft), no rust, and no green brass and no chipping paint work later to patch up... M4 also allows a much larger range of props without overspending, the queen would want to run on at least a 40mm prop, and x40 if you have the motor power.
I wouldn’t get to involved in ball raced props, their mainly suited to IC engines,(there also a pig to sort out when the races wear, a standard bushed shaft is easy to fix with a rod and hammer..) a good quality brass bushes or stainless shaft will do very well and many many years of use without excessive wear providing you fit Oiler’s or grease the shaft regularly, I tend to only fit Oiler’s on slower boats (lower rpm) anything that’s 12.000 + I pack the shaft with real marine grease. And just change it annually.
Never had a shaft issues with M4’s... had plenty of issues with m2 tho %%
Good job so far keep up the good work!
-
Each to his own I suppose. Raboesch say they are for a range of boats, including simple electric ones, sailing boats with auxiliary motors and small steam boats. If they were mainly suited for IC they wouldn't be selling many nowadays.
I like the idea that you don't have to mess around with oil and grease and unless you use the boat a lot the ball-race should last a long time. They say to epoxy the ball-race onto the shaft but I'm not going to do that I'm going to tape it on so that if I need to take it off I can easily.
Bushed ones are tried and tested so no problem going that way if you want to.
As for props if you Google Protean Design it will take you to Prop Shop. I'm a bit confused though as I ordered mine in metric and they are showing in imperial. Must be an old web-site I think as I have an email with a price list in metric.
I've got to contact Simon Higgins to order more props and P brackets so I'll try the email I used a couple of years ago and if successful I'll let you know.
Chris
-
I've gone for a shaft from the Prop Shop. Spoke to Simon who was very helpful and
helped me choose a 4mm shaft which includes a centre bearing out of bronze.
Found the original shaft slightly bent which was causing lots of vibration and noise.
When stripped it had also been rubbing half way down the shaft and got very hot.
Ive strengthened the engine mount frame with another layer of 2mm ply and painted a
first coat of penetrating epoxy to the inside of the hull. Going to do 3 coats and see how
it looks.
Regards Martin.
-
Good that you are sorted and that Simon is in operation during this time. I'll give him a ring tomorrow.
Chris
-
I've really got the boat build bug as I've just ordered a 48" J Class hull to build.
What else can a man do when he's locked up!
-
First coat of penetrating epoxy and picture showing
engine mount extra ply plate.
-
Making a superb job of it Martin! Really enjoyable to follow along, keep the build photos coming.
-
Cheers Phil will do.
-
I built one of these for an old bloke in our village a couple of years ago.... so impressed with the kit build and the look of the boat that my missus bought me one. Problem was the old boy then wanted help with a Perkasa..... a different kettle of fish altogether !
Regards
Terry H
-
Hi there Martin, just picked up on your build, looks like you're doing well with it.
A question for you please.
You mention penetrating epoxy - can you tell me which brand you use?
Regards,
Ray.
-
Hi Ray
I got the recommendation from someone else but the stuff really soaks into the wood.
Its Smiths clear penetrating epoxy I got the warm weather formula.
Regards Martin.
-
Thanks for the update Martin, I'll look into getting some to try for a couple of the builds I've got lined up :-))
Regards,
Ray.
-
I've put some woven fibreglass in the front and rear of the hull. When put
up against a light you could see some light coming through the plywood. Im
sure it would have been ok but thought it would be a good idea just to beef
the hull up a bit. Second coat of penetrating epoxy is looking better so maybe
one or two more coats. Also just ran a bit of finishing epoxy along the keel just
to seal the joint a bit.
Also made a little skiff for my upcoming Bearospace Annie Schooner.
-
Still on with the build and started on a Aeronaut Bellissima yacht while Im waiting
on a prop shaft from the prop shop. I have given the hull 4 coats of penetrating epoxy
and have now fitted the motor and bought a brass after market rudder.
One thing of note is don't get wood glue on the mahogany as it marks it and when you
try and rub if off the mahogany ends up going lighter in colour.
-
As others have said, you're making a lovely job of that.
Was going to mention earlier, with the amount of prop shaft sticking out of the hull it needs some support. Does the kit call for a ply fillet? If not, you could use a P bracket like the one shown in my photo. Simon at Prop Shop supplied mine.
Chris
-
Hi Chris
Yes the kit has a ply fillet just awaiting the prop shaft arrival
which is holding the build.
-
Been able to do some more work on the Queen as the prop shaft turned up yesterday.
I have given the hull four coats of Mr Smiths penetrating epoxy. Motor, prop shaft, rudder
and water intake fitted. Put her in the bath earlier and ran up the motor which is extremely
powerful.
-
Now fitted the deck and the fun started. The front and rear bulkheads didn't line up
and when checked it seemed to be the front. As its fixed by the depron jig Im not sure
why that should be. Anyway I cut the front bulkhead out and fixed it to the underside
of the deck. I then fitted the cabin sides which were ok but when fitting the front windscreens
they were shot by a few mm. I packed out the side frames and fitted the screens. The rear cabin
which is removable went together ok but again needed some adjusting. I have made the cabin
roof removable so that I can fit it out at a later date. I have done some rubbing down and
penetrating epoxy painting today and its starting to look more like a boat.