Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: funnel on July 08, 2020, 09:11:12 pm
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Hello all.
Does anyone have any info, details, photos, drawings of our built a model of a Fairmile C motor gun boat. I am building at about 5ft so 1:24 scale.
Thanks
TOBY
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Anything to do with Fairmiles you need to look at "Allied Coastal Forces of WWII. Vol One". By John Lambert and All Ross. It will give you chapter and verse on Fairmiles A.B.C. D and Motor Launches.
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Thank you for your tip! I will look to find a copy right now!
Toby
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Have a look around the web, it's available to download as a PDF. I think it's on a Facebook page called Rc boat plans. Search the file section.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1195313783862857/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1195313783862857/)
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Plans exist for them.
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mar2419.html (https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mar2419.html)
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Thanks
I have found the Facebook group but have to wait to join. Found the plans at Cornwallmb and also Sarikhobbies. They will be a start hopefully but may not show all the deck detail for the type in which I am interested in urethra order to make sure the fittings are correct and as detailed as possible.
I bought a PDF download version of the BOOK recommended in the earlier post and have read it and taken notes concerning the C type.
Thanks for all the replies to date.
Toby
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I forgot to mention that Christian in Gib has a 1/24th hull and Russ (Imaco) in HK has a laser cut superstructure kit. Battlecraft have a full fittings set for it.
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Mudway
Thank you very much for the photo and the info about suppliers. I will investigate those shortly.
Toby
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I have recently built a Fairmile C MGB which, coincidently is based on C328 as shown on the plans from CMB. My plans though were those produced by Vic Smeed for a type D.
I also used Coastal Craft History Volume 4 which, on pages 16 and 17 show detail of this vessel.
On Facebook try searching for the group "Coastal Defence Vessels of ww2", where you'll find a lot of information on Fairmiles.
Here is a photo of my Fairmile undertaking its sea trials at Balne Moor lake.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/09/fullsizeoutput_286.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/Zd45w)
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Hello Butts
Thank you for taking the time to post; much appreciated.
I shall investigate the Facebook web and see if I can find those particular pages in volume four. I bought an online version of volume one last night which contained Fairmile vessels.
Yours looks super in the photo and with a camouflage paint job too. I read about that last night. Appreciate any other photos!
Perhaps you can clear up one matter about rudders for in one photo I saw that there were fixtures on the stern and in another not. Are the control posts for the rudders external or internal on the full- size and model. Perhaps what I saw externally at the Stern were stabilizers or similar if nothing to do with rudders.
Thanks
Toby
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Hello Butts
Am I correct that the vessel you have is light grey with the blue grey camouflage which extends to decks, rear of bridge and bridge floor but the bridge superstructure is white not grey?
Toby
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Hello again Toby
Yes, on the real boat the rudders are located off the back of the transom as you describe. I decided that to do that on a model was just too difficult, but I suppose, as always, it depends on how accurate you want to keep things.
Similarly mine has three props and shafts, but only the outer pair drive. It runs a two 1100 kv brushless motors so has a considerable performance. Even on the real boats, the motors were not all three in line (three Packhard V8s).
Yes the hull is light grey and the deck and fittings blue. When looked at from above, as a plane would see it, the boat looks all blue. The forward gun is white and the wheelhouse is white when looked at horizontally. The flack cushions are a mixture of the three colours.
In this photo you can see an earlier stage of construction which shows the colour scheme more clearly (no flack cushions yet).
Michael
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/09/fullsizeoutput_26b.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/ZdQ8P)
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I forgot to mention the colours are:
RAL 7044 Silk grey, and
RAL 5020 Ocean blue
It's a bit of a guess as I've only ever seen black and white photos. Even John Lambert acknowledges that it's guess work!
There is a Youtube video of Q328, but it is in a much lighter blue. Still worth a look.
The boat was completed in October 1941 and sank off Dover on 21st July 1942.
Michael.
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Brilliant Michael
Thank you.
I am intrigued as to the diagonal planking on the deck. I had not really noticed that.
Do I presume correctly that the deck has a camber or is it flat?
Toby
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Yes, the deck does have a camber and the planking is diagonal across the deck, not in chevron which surprised me when I researched it.
You can see the split in the deck at the bow and the whole lot lifts off to provide brilliant engine room access.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2020/07/09/fullsizeoutput_28a.jpg) (https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/image/ZdbU5)
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It surprises me also.
Do you have operating guns in that they are able to turn on their axis.
I found this clip on YouTube but not the one you mentioned unless you were meaning the one which is like a watching computer model.
https://youtu.be/ReC87ZFHw8s
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Just bought Coastal Craft History Volume 4.
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It surprises me also.
Do you have operating guns in that they are able to turn on their axis.
I found this clip on YouTube but not the one you mentioned unless you were meaning the one which is like a watching computer model.
https://youtu.be/ReC87ZFHw8s (https://youtu.be/ReC87ZFHw8s)
Yes, and no.
The 2pdr on the bow is mounted on a servo and does turn.
The two twin vickers at midships don't, as fitted, but I'm working on a prototype which will turn.
The Rolls Royce at the stern would look silly turning without a figure attached to it and even then wouldn't look right in my opinion.
Yes I did mean the video that looks like a computer game - the one you've found is much better :-))
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I forgot to mention the colours are:
RAL 7044 Silk grey, and
RAL 5020 Ocean blue
It's a bit of a guess as I've only ever seen black and white photos. Even John Lambert acknowledges that it's guess work!
There is a Youtube video of Q328, but it is in a much lighter blue. Still worth a look.
The boat was completed in October 1941 and sank off Dover on 21st July 1942.
Michael.
I wouldn’t put too much credence on a wargaming creation. Their scheme looks more post 1943 than 1942 when colours changed.
When John Lambert was writing, the details on WW2 RN paints was a bit sketchy, these days a lot of research has been undertaken to identify the colours. John probably never realised that the National Archives held samples of the colours in their records. If 328 used B5, a blue grey, it had a reflectance of 15% whereas the RAL colour is only 4%. Sovereign Paints have the colours in their range.
I matched the light grey and blue grey to dulux paints with the help from a friendly Dulux person. The MGB attached is in those colours. The photo also shows why you cannot really trust photos. Despite the appearance, the side flash & decks are the same blue paint. The forward grey and superstructure grey is the same pale grey even though it doesn’t look like that in the photo. The photos show how the colours can appear different under different lighting conditions and angles.
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There is a pdf in there with colours on it, well hidden in the photos, no idea how to change the order the photos are in. :((
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That's very interesting, thank you :-))
I've always suspected my colour scheme might be not quite right, but I'm not planning to repaint it %%
I did discover Sovereign paints, but by then had bought my paint. At least I managed to find a supplier who could offer full matt finish.
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Hello Mudway,
Thank you for the photos and the information concerning paints.
I shall be researching that helpful information later.
The whole area of paint tone is fascinating to me at least, but no doubt to others also.
Whilst bearing in mind that one builds and creates one's model to ones own ability and desire etc it remains, as in most subjects, that there are definitives that give rise to better accuracy or aesthetic pleasure etc. due to perspective and scale just as in a painting of a landscape in artwork.
How often has a perfectly good model perhaps been spoilt by over gauge rails and stanchions or a thick and gloss paint job.
In art landscapes any colour is progressively more blued or greyed the more it recedes in to the distance.
Clearly when we see a ship in the dock or at close quarters we might see that it is painted in brilliant gloss white and rich blue, especially if it is a ferry about the UK seas.
However, when seeing the same vessel from a distance, although our brain reminds us of the colours, we do not actually see such but rather a greyer more matt versions less intense version of the colours. Black hulls look effectively to be shades of dark grey in reality if we suspend our mind saying it is black. Roads are a classic example of where what we know to be black tarmac looks grey when we analyse what we are actually seeing.
Further we cannot see the whole of a full-size ship and we tend generally to be overwhelmed by the size of scale and the brilliance of tone in which the vessel is painted. However, in regard to model boats and painting pictures invariably tones have to be subdued. We can usually see the whole of a model and if there be myriad bright red painted fittings on board, these become a total distraction to looking at the model and appreciating the over all lines and features of the vessel. Firstly because the eye always looks for red and even if the red used is a match for that on the full-size vessel the gaudy bright red blobs will draw our eye from the over all sense of the model. That is, bright red fittings with a boat attached rather than a boat with some fittings in a red colour. Artists include red where they want to draw the eye in a painting so such has to be used wisely.
So as the full-size ship becomes further away it becomes duller and lighter in the sense of brilliance and colour respectively. Perspective in the sense of colours. Further we see more of the whole ship and less of its specific deck features and so on. This is perspective in the sense of scale. So in order to create a realistic model if that is what the builder is after achieving then these matters are important.
It is similar when a model has rivet detail and weathering. Suddenly the model looks more constructed and fitted and the weathering makes the model look heavier and used looking. This brings the model closer to the reality of the full-size vessel in the mind of the viewer thus achieving a satisfying experience of viewing the model.
In your photos showing how light and angle reflect what you think you see rather than what is the case also proves the point of perspective and proportion of colour intensity.
Many boats look huge in the workshop but once on the water at the pond some can somewhat vanish in the scale of things.
This subject can also be used concerning lights on models. LEDs are super things but without control are simply too bright in the scale of things. It is bad enough seeing a model of Titanic with all the lights on at once but when over bright any sense of realistic effect is totally lost because the brightness far exceeds the scale of the model boat.
A model railway enthusiast demonstrated that scenery on a layout has to be painted at the intensity of scale. That is, albeit one is standing next to the layout, the scale perspective could mean that one would be hundreds of feet away in reality. The amount of detail and strength of tone in the paint choice is vital in order to correctly achieve an effective model railway layout sense of scale and distance and for things to blend rather than distract.
Toby
I wouldn’t put too much credence on a wargaming creation. Their scheme looks more post 1943 than 1942 when colours changed.
When John Lambert was writing, the details on WW2 RN paints was a bit sketchy, these days a lot of research has been undertaken to identify the colours. John probably never realised that the National Archives held samples of the colours in their records. If 328 used B5, a blue grey, it had a reflectance of 15% whereas the RAL colour is only 4%. Sovereign Paints have the colours in their range.
I matched the light grey and blue grey to dulux paints with the help from a friendly Dulux person. The MGB attached is in those colours. The photo also shows why you cannot really trust photos. Despite the appearance, the side flash & decks are the same blue paint. The forward grey and superstructure grey is the same pale grey even though it doesn’t look like that in the photo. The photos show how the colours can appear different under different lighting conditions and angles.
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My copy of the book recommended here has just arrived. Coastal Craft History Volume 4 looks very interesting and very suitable for model boat builders re info and tips and clear drawings. .
Thanks for telling me about the book.
Look forward to reading it this evening.
Toby
I have to decide now what to do concerning the deck planking, it being set on the diagonal across the beam.
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All 24 of these boats had Hall-Scott Defender motors. The Packards used in most coastal craft were V12s - their own design, not licence-built Merlins.
John Lamberts drawings show the decks planked straight across at 45 degrees to the centreline, not herringbone.
Q314, which was lost during the Dieppe raid, carried a Western Approaches camouflage, whether just for the raid or otherwise I not know.
The caveats about interpeting monochrome photos are wise, especially as orthochromatic film dramatically darkened some colours, notably blue. I have several photos (some close-up) I can scan and post if anyone is interested.
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I stand corrected on the motors, I'm not sure from where I'd picked that up :-)) .
The deck on my Fairmile is as you describe, it just looks a little odd when you compare to other boats. Perhaps for simplicity of construction?
Michael.
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Presumably the deck was double-diagonally planked, like the rest of the structure, so it was possibly stronger like this. The herringbone pattern certainly seems to have been used on other coastal craft.
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Was this deck layout visible or was there a protective metal sheet placed over it, for in photos it is hard to spot this deck planking style. I am simply because it took me by surprise when I saw the drawings. In the book other types of boats produced later are shown with the Herring bone pattern.
Just want to be sure before I begin the deck.
Toby
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The deck was painted, but the pattern was visible (more from the caulking than the planking) in certain circumstances, especially when wet. Coconut matting was sometimes used to provide grip. and I have read somwhere of canvas being used and overpainted to help with waterproofing.
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That is very interesting!
Using this style planking, how have others disguised the openings /access points to the hull?
T
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My copy of the book recommended here has just arrived. Coastal Craft History Volume 4 looks very interesting and very suitable for model boat builders re info and tips and clear drawings. .
Thanks for telling me about the book.
Look forward to reading it this evening.
Toby
I have to decide now what to do concerning the deck planking, it being set on the diagonal across the beam.
Be wary of their colour charts. They show 507B/507A & G10 as different colours when they are the same colour. Similarly 507C & G45 shown as different when the same colour. The only difference is the level of gloss.
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I have several photos (some close-up) I can scan and post if anyone is interested.
Oh yes please. :-))
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Oh yes please too.
Toby
Or I can give you my WhatsApp to which you could send them.
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Thank you for the warning about the colours. I will proceed with caution.
Toby
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Oh yes please too.
Toby
Or I can give you my WhatsApp to which you could send them.
If too big, a wetransfer could work. Free and you can transfer 2gb. [size=78%]https://wetransfer.com/ (https://wetransfer.com/)[/size]
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I found all these on the internet. I also have some shots of other people's models which I'll post later..
This one is MGB 314 in what appears to be a Western Approaches scheme, presumable for the Dieppe raid.
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MGB 312 in overall grey or wite.
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MGB 328 in Dark Modification scheme.
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MGB 335
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MGB 312
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Detail of the Vickers point fives. Intriguing - who's the naval officer chatting with the Scots army captain?
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Thank you for the uploads of photos. I had only seen two before. So great!
Toby
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Many Thanks. Some of the schemes shown are similar to those issued by CB3098 in 1943. Fairmile Cs like the Dennys were too few to warrant their own design. The colours are only a representation to show which is which and shouldn't be confused with the real colours. Jamie Duff at Sovereign has reprinted CB3098 using "real" colours.
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Missed this one! MGB 330 in an unusual scheme. I believe the dark panel on the bow denotes a senior officer's ship.
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Thanks for sharing. Yes I believe you are correct concerning the stripe on the bow. I am site I read it recently in one of the books.
Toby