Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: Taranis on September 17, 2020, 04:04:58 pm
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Mine finally arrived (actually very quickly from HK but I was on holiday)
Well packaged for shipping and final handling by Parcelforce
These are 100mm Korts with about an 86mm brass prop. In total cost me £345 for the pair. I'm happy.
You might see them in a Tug build of mine over winter.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-p2vphMt/0/5b36cb10/XL/91F0AE49-D6F5-43ED-BB6B-2C24EC89943E-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-twdkRkp/0/9c4c2acc/XL/96DFA18D-459C-4C5B-BDFD-322656CC3B66-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-drDBLq5/0/8d7b2d49/XL/BB498792-0A93-41E2-90F4-4D5B7AB9660E-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-w9ns9tg/0/25e22d4e/XL/22A4069F-25F3-48CE-A5BF-E946CD127C3E-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-Pnr2VmT/0/1c94b420/XL/B2158933-35E9-4B2F-A7BC-784AB2C6FE02-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-FWsS5km/0/87a04c1d/XL/CDFAA0C4-B668-4B52-A643-743277F28CE6-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-DSX447q/0/cc7ed2d2/XL/DE0335FA-C84C-4968-B81D-E324F7F91091-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-X9XBzBt/0/57127e16/X2/2E4E6FE1-8AAB-4171-96B7-BDC4FA3DAD85-X2.jpg)
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do u have a link where to purchase these
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bonjour buster22 ,
here is the link ,
https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiRs__pgfLrAhXF6eAKHVLsB0EQFjAAegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oceanworkscale.com%2F&usg=AOvVaw3-PY_Me4jFR_5dObJCX-hx
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I had planned to fit these in a Svitzer Maltby hull but unfortunately they are too big for that. So they are going in the Orion Stevns Arctic hull that I mothballed last year.
I've not done this before so following my nose.
I started with a piece of 6mm Paxolin board for a base.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-mD96psP/0/88fe75ab/X2/E746D74E-79CE-4207-BA18-CFBD534650F5-X2.jpg)
I had already established propeller centres to be 155mm so I set about fitting both units the the paxolin
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-68RvXbt/0/d5465a13/X2/E5A40D46-45FC-48B3-A7DF-33E21218ACFB-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-WHJRFX6/0/da04724b/XL/6C3E2B4C-A61E-411E-BDD4-CBA0F85CAB94-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-kXqvXqX/0/4cc54bca/X2/57519C08-EB07-431D-8A67-AA0B617FC0BE-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-d27VQtb/0/b9a9b9bc/XL/4D69B885-A916-4316-BB69-6C6BEDED35AB-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-8fmLVjv/0/9b67eb25/X2/1127567F-CC53-404A-8515-6FC5923913B5-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-cBXvdPJ/0/b95582c8/XL/61DD7580-6BF6-43F2-8FB3-F2DD531AB347-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-nwjHJkV/0/5a8344b1/XL/D0A27C9A-F2B1-4EE3-8FCC-EA71230C67F3-XL.jpg)
These have to be glued in place. I've used Everbuild sealant adhesive to set them in place before dry fitting the full assemble while it sets.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-bVFB26J/0/244e2a73/X2/17D580F4-3F95-4941-81B7-D7878B8FD8F7-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-fwX9HgS/0/c41a6876/X3/F1018041-3A67-444A-91B8-61EC25C9ABA0-X3.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-F4rVpPB/0/a5fcecb5/XL/41D40FBD-3911-4729-AC94-51F45039BDA8-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-FZ6Cmbh/0/31d72d96/X2/449483FA-4529-4443-9140-3CBA9B2CE82E-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-ph3pJfg/0/5c928238/X2/11C2A11A-01D3-43F6-A69D-19756D3DA704-X2.jpg)
That's all for today
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More pictures
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-hhFR9tW/0/30bc7097/XL/74FA93CC-D1FE-45BC-86BB-80C865A22FCA-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-6wBhRg3/0/b647b80f/XL/0BE8FEE2-98DE-4701-8433-82022EBD532E-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-QdN9tWw/0/3ce4601c/X3/35E560AB-D87B-477B-A52A-051B7AFA261E-X3.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-GsgSPPX/0/068b2c80/X3/04BD1295-173A-4B32-86F2-88A5B6F34A83-X3.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-2m4Pv9J/0/ae8d8b23/X2/63E9AD8B-D334-4785-BA83-67E4EEF8CAB7-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-vzkGQWv/0/eedd17e0/X2/214772BB-68DF-4C9E-8CE2-2FFFE45800F9-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-2x4rhf7/0/398da488/X2/19D23DB6-0F7C-42A0-8388-D4ED65CC1BF2-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-7ZbqPJQ/0/d7b89ccb/XL/E88CBB25-49B2-4A75-ADF8-09B8B7BD718F-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-znt8pQJ/0/aac77d5e/XL/525AE9BE-5BC9-4063-8C41-807D3F4D6405-XL.jpg)
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Hi Andy
Super job they look :-) [size=78%] perfect for that size of hull look forward to more of this build [/size]
Jason
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Hi Jason thanks. I wasn't sure about using this hull as you know it is quite wrong at the bow but given the cost I decided I'm not going to waste it and will adapt it to be anything but a Stevns arctic. This will be my first Heinz build :-)
I'm just doing the bow thruster at present which is very challenging but I've dreamt up a way to compromise and will be posting in the near future in the Stevns Arctic build that isn't {-)
Agree about the size :-))
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-sTsSQXB/0/b155a4de/X2/22DC088C-D029-49A4-AAFE-8B47AA2D1D1A-X2.jpg)
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My servos just arrived. I've no experience of coreless nor HV but I suspect they perform better at 6volts plus.
First thing to note is the OceanWorks fixing centres are a bit wide at 50mm, standard servo being 48mm. However this is easily remedied.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-jnsGVSt/0/98ad8a85/L/3769AE3E-199B-4BEF-9297-A2E052378741-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-vrtw4mP/0/c4b93886/X2/B942203A-0D03-4031-BB82-30E3EF4CEE2D-X2.jpg)
I'm now going to need servo travel extenders. Personally I'm not wanting 360 but I do want at least 180.
Any recommendations??
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-9mLwVS2/0/2d147832/X3/B170A560-C6C7-4CDF-9C53-33393185F1E5-X3.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/OceanWorks-Z-drives/i-ZDdngsN/0/6c49b873/X3/7F841BCF-2219-4090-95CF-AC9EB2F95C9E-X3.jpg)
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My servos just arrived. I've no experience of coreless nor HV but I suspect they perform better at 6volts plus.
To get the full 30Kg torque you will need to run them on 7.4V, basically a 2S LiPo. Will your receiver take this voltage? or is it limited to 6V.
Jim
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4 to 10 volts check :-)) thanks Jim
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/frsky-x6r-6-16ch-s-bus-accst-telemetry-receiver-w-smart-port.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwh7H7BRBBEiwAPXjadmDFVWZcUdf6T3qAt2gzAc3r-Bfa_an6JiBCEykV-FrkEa2Ga_gXMBoCnn8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Hi Andy
I have increased the range of many servos from 90 deg to 180 deg . It normaly just add a few resistors. The big factor is does that servo have a mechinal stop. Some servos only have 180 deg of gears on the final drive some have the full 360 put a pin to stop more that 90. Best think is open it up and see if there is a mechinal stop .
John
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No stops John I can turn them by hand well beyond 180 deg. Radio increases travel but 150% isn't enough. Likely fit MRW11's
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:-))
https://youtu.be/yd7DoNfV6SQ (https://youtu.be/yd7DoNfV6SQ)
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Just out of curiosity
What is the maximum voltage the motors will take
And is there a rated max rpm for the schottel unit it’s self?
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Max voltage is well within the rpm you would reasonably want
The motor is 800kv which means 800 rpm per volt applied
The gear reduction is 3 to 1 so I would not expect to want more than 9000rpm personally
Using a 12 volt SLV battery I would be setting throttle limits. From the size of the propellers I imagine 2000 rpm will be more than effective enough at the blunt end.
If you need anything more specific please contact OceanWorks O0
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Andy,
Thanks for the information.
Nothing else specific just thought others might find it insightful too.
When you consider conventional running gear and the costs involved these units are hard to beat.
It would be interesting to know the amps pulled by the motors under load.
Thanks
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:-)) Good questions
I will be doing that some time soon. My last attempt failed as my clip on ammeter gave up.
I now have an inline power meter for the next trial
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Boat-bits/i-DvbHjq9/0/30e7a387/X2/4CB5BC20-342D-4390-90A1-82DCC9108D1A-X2.jpg)
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Look forward to the update.
I imagine that the motors in combination with the 3.1 will create quite a lot of torque.
It would be interesting to see bollard pull results from the Stevns and your Portgarth.
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Wet test today. No leaks and everything working. Full load test proved max current to be 21 amps and well within the 60amp esc's I chose. I will probably remove the cooling fans from them.
Normal pootling about will be barely a few amps.
https://youtu.be/OL_6sAIFLZg
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Andy the playback is not working.
Just wondering you mentioned the Props being 86mm
I had a look at oceanworks site and they mention 80mm / 90mm
The 80mm prop variation mentions 5.1 reduction seems a bit high.
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Sorry but that's you tube not me, try later.
My props are 80mm
https://www.oceanworkscale.com/product/z-peller-azimuth-thruster-z-drive-propulsion-combo-set-100mm-reinforce-nylon/
Photos of my drives show 20 to 60 gears which is 3:1
You best enquire with the seller.
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He's up and about in Hong Kong and says mine is what you get so ignore the shop details
You tube view count is on 65 already so I guess some are watching repeatedly. Might crash the server yet {-)
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Hello taranis I have used the servo extender that microgyros sells and they just fit between the servo and rx. It works well for me.
I used to do an internal job on the servos as per Cos918 but that does commit the servo and a replacement has to be altered as well.
Regards
Roy
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I changed to these Roy
https://youtu.be/TouOVUvQy9M
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OOOPs I think I meant Flytron, sorry microgyros.
Roy
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I took a propeller off this morning and can confirm mine measure 84mm
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84mm
I guess they need to update the website.
I assume your nozzles are 100/90?
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I dont know what that means but $180 each EDIT yes I guess so
Looks like he made changes since I spoke last night
https://www.oceanworkscale.com/product/z-peller-azimuth-thruster-z-drive-propulsion-combo-set-100mm-reinforce-nylon/ (https://www.oceanworkscale.com/product/z-peller-azimuth-thruster-z-drive-propulsion-combo-set-100mm-reinforce-nylon/)
Main Gear: 60T , Material : POM
Motor Gear: 20T, Material: Steel
Ratio: 3:1
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I take it the outer diameter is 100mm front and 90mm rear or are these dimensions slightly more than stated,
Just going by the fact your prop is 84mm and not 80mm as it mentions.
Looks to be a solid product.
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How do you control a schottle / pod drive on a model? It's one thing ive always been curious about
At work when manoeuvring it's done with these leavers, - haven't seen anything like it for a RC before
Do most not use the schottle / pod in 360? these are our controls for 3 20MW pods
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I am steering towards 360 (pun intended) {-)
I want to keep it simple (without spending a mint) and control is not about speed but accuracy IMHO
I will use two rotary knobs to control and indicate the position of each kort and port starboard throttles split on left right friction sticks
Only testing in the water will determine what I might change. AND lots of practice.
From a lot of watching it seems LESS is more, see what momentum does before over reacting.
EDIT
I guess the most important thing is the direction of the thrust, no point applying any amount in the wrong direction. {-)
I dare say in time with OPENTX I can have multiple settings and flick a switch for basic sailing controls with no tow OR simply put tank steering OFF
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How do you control a schottle / pod drive on a model? It's one thing ive always been curious about
At work when manoeuvring it's done with these leavers, - haven't seen anything like it for a RC before
Do most not use the schottle / pod in 360? these are our controls for 3 20MW pods
the canadian guys have made these R/C controls for ASD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzg4mAWPolg&list=FLIdETMPJk9BwEnYAmIcwR4A&index=21
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That’s interesting Ray but I would say from experience that throwing a boat around sideways and spinning in open water is a far cry from the control required on a tow with obstacles everywhere
They make it look easy but I’d like to see them apply it to more than showing off %%
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that transmitter is a work of art, (pod leaver one) really impressive.
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That’s interesting Ray but I would say from experience that throwing a boat around sideways and spinning in open water is a far cry from the control required on a tow with obstacles everywhere
They make it look easy but I’d like to see them apply it to more than showing off %%
hi andy i know theres a lot of show boating in the video but they do use these controls for model towing competitions in this photo this is a training tug future tug captains train on these models as part of there coarse / training! the tug is a true scale tug 'bollard pull and H.P' the model is approx 6ft loa and the ASD units are 6inch dia the hadsets are custom made and use the sticks for control! the ship model is 47ft loa :o
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After reading Andy's post about these Z-drives I decided to order a couple for my new build, the price and the quality is very good.
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Nice blades O0 are they aluminium alloy?
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Im not sure Andy, but really good quality, after working out cost of materials to make the drives it was a none starter to be honest, the ones I bought are 90mm Schottels, I was that impressed with them I placed an order for the 120mm Schottels for my new build.
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Nice I’m happy for you and for Victor, they work hard at OceanWorks with continual improvements O0
I can’t help but notice that the leading edge of the new props appear to be very sharply profiled.
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I found this link to a company that makes the rotation units and boards for your radios.
IMTH Innovative Modelltechnik Hamburg - Home (https://www.imth.de/index.php/en/)
These by what it looks like can give us a full 360 degree rotation.
Duane
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There seems to be an obsession with 360 degrees, has any one tried using it in practice on a model? I find 180 is more than adequate and its already very easy to lose track of what is where and how much power in what direction %% I would suggest not to waste money on overcomplicating what works fine and just spend time using it to the point it becomes intuitive. These drives at this size are extremely powerful and I have output limited to 25% but for becoming familiar with it a lower output would be easier.
Please don’t take this as directed at you Duane it is just a general observation.
Of course full size vessels have very big heads up displays of what is going on
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Hello taranis ,
On my PENFRET I have 360°.
marco
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Hi Marco,
Sorry this is of subject, but I have to ask... How's the Penfret build going?
regards
Ant
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Perhaps we are deviating from subject here, but I'm with Andy/Taranis regarding 360degr rotation or not. If you really like to replicate the real thing, then go for it, but it ain't that necessary.
I don't have a podded model, but I am captain on a 40m ASD passenger vessel, and spend my days manoeuvring to and from jettys that we go nose on to. Very much like a tugboat pushing a vessel. The only times I turn a pod inwards is when turning on the spot or when steering at slow speed and you need that extra force. All manoeuvres can be done by steering the pod 180degr outward, braking, crabbing, steering. You can get unwanted effects when turning a pod inwards and the prop wash hits the hull or fin.
If I could afford it, I'd definitely buy the German system that replicate the real thing, but you could achieve almost the same thing with a much less complicated solution. If I ever build a podded model I'll try to use my Robbe F14 with two sets of twin sticks and 180degr serves.
All the best!
Hama
https://youtu.be/vHF21Ozbrd8
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Taranis, You might care to take a gander at these servos. https://www.gobilda.com/2000-series-dual-mode-servo-25-2-torque/They provide 180 degree rotation out of the box and 300 degrees with a servo expander. I have used them for animation on my models and am very happy with them. They do make a speed version, but it is does not have enough torque for your needs. They might. Check the specs.Jonathan
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Wow..
I've just discovered these drives from Oceanworks.. Very, very nice!..
They look much stronger and better construction than the Graupner >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( drives..
I did something similar with the drives I built for my MHT (Modern Harbour Tug).. much more robust construction!..https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1108150-A-Modern-Harbor-Tug (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1108150-A-Modern-Harbor-Tug)
Rather than going with the complications of going the full 360 degrees with my drives, I went with 180 degrees and forwards / reverse, though the Mk 11 drives might be gear driven from the servo..
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Nice work :-))
I fully recommend OceanWorks O0
Sailing with one hand and phone in the other
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F6MVhBN/0/1920/i-F6MVhBN-1920.mp4 (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-F6MVhBN/0/1920/i-F6MVhBN-1920.mp4)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-VtrdVv8/0/X2/i-VtrdVv8-X2.jpg)
34kg
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-gpp5qrv/1/X2/i-gpp5qrv-X2.jpg)
My favourite
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cqf5ZFD/0/X2/i-cqf5ZFD-X2.jpg)
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FAO Admin: Nominate 1st choice next photo of the month.
(I don't know where the pics of the azi drives went in my reply)
Wow..
I've just discovered these drives from Oceanworks.. Very, very nice!..
They look much stronger and better construction than the Graupner >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( drives..
I did something similar with the drives I built for my MHT (Modern Harbour Tug).. much more robust construction!..https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1108150-A-Modern-Harbor-Tug (https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1108150-A-Modern-Harbor-Tug)
Rather than going with the complications of going the full 360 degrees with my drives, I went with 180 degrees and forwards / reverse, though the Mk 11 drives might be gear driven from the servo..