Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: River Model Guy on June 13, 2021, 11:20:50 am
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Hi there to all you budding Boaters,
A question if I may regarding a size for a radio controlled model cabin cruiser.
Essentially I have been asked to construct a small scale model of a rather lovely old 1932 era, Norfolk Broads cabin cruiser, a famous Delight Class, Designed and built by the famous Herbert Woods, of Potter Heigham.
Since I put out 1:16 Scale model kits back in 2017 of the larger Light Class Cruisers, Ring of Light and Queen of Light, one then customer has pleaded for me to bring out the smallest of the Light Cruiser fleet, Delight. I have no problems making a highly detailed static model, though resisted in doing a radio controlled version since at the same scale, this model would only measure in at 18"(462mm), LOA, with a Beam of 6 1/4"(160mm), and Draft of 1.5"(40mm).
I thought perhaps using light ply frames, 2mm lime planking etc, that she may be a thought.
But I really would like to hear of all your experiences out there with small scale cabin Cruisers specifically, to see if it's really worth it, or coming out of the present scale to 1:12 which would bring the model up to 24" LOA.
I shall try and add a pic of the real thing, a photo taken back in the 1930s, to show her high topsides design, albeit very pretty little cruiser.
I would like to keep the model to 1:16 small scale as that is the request from a chap who wants his little Light Class Fleet complete in the same scale.
Over to your thoughts out there on any aspect.
BTW, whilst waiting for the printers of the little day cruiser planned, this delight class is being drafted up accurately by me in preparation to construct the model.
Kindest to you all, and huge thanks for your thoughts of experience in advance.
Paul
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What's the actual displacement of the real thing? If you have that you can work back to a target model weight and this will give you the scale.
So, for example, if the real weight is 4 tons (8000lbs approx) then at 1:16 the model would be 8000 divided by 16x16x16 = 2lbs approx which would be workable.
:-))
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While not a cabin cruiser, I have the KYModels 1/32 scale mooring tug at 13 inch length, 4 1/2 inch beam and 1 1/2 inch draught. This works very well using a 2 4 cell AA packs in parallel. As a Broads cruiser you will not be needing high speeds so a relatively small motor will do, giving decent running time. Modern radio gear can be very small (1g weight servos) so the weight of the radio gear can be discounted, a micro esc and micro receiver can also be use while the generally lower range of the receivers will not be a problem in your case.
Jim
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Yes many thanks for that vital question.
Indeed I sadly only have original plans for her, drafted on the back of old admiralty charts, but zero on the class all up weights and displacement etc, which is of course a real shame, having said that, with the modern lightweight model Woods available these days, I would imagine a workable floating model not a problem, for the real craft were constructed Mahogany on Oak Keel/Timbers etc.
I could guesstimate a weight based on similar sized craft, at 6 tonnes, but only rough.
What I can tell you is that a 1:16 scale working model of the larger Ring, at 27" LOA was built by the yard as a floating model using 1/4" Oak keel, and 1/16" ply frames, beefed up with 1/4" stringers and 1/16" planking, with an electric motor, no ESC etc back then, but built as an architect model then onwards for Blakes Boating Holidays promotional events, so I suppose at 6" less LOA, this little Delight is perfectly doable, just need to take great care in using 1.5mm frames, beefed up on the outer bulkheads etc.
What do you reckon to that.
Cheers
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Hi Jim,
Many thanks indeed, a most reassuring thought of your small scale tug boat, as, since again of a displacing type hull, one can relate to the same sensible thoughts.
Yes your quite right Jim of broads Cruisers slow displacement speeds, max 5 knots restricted on the real thing.
My kind regards to lovely Dundee, miss the place.
Paul
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I wouldn't worry too much about the weight of the frames, especially as tmuch of the middle areas can be cut out. Personally I much prefer birch ply to Liteply. The difference in weight will be negligible.
I build my Faireys without any thought of weight saving and they sit bang on the waterline. They are so buoyant that it will take a lot of extra weight to push them down lower!
A build at 18" shouldn't give any problems with regard to RC installation. One of my future builds is a 16' 7" river cruiser at 1:12.
Chris
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Excellent thanks Chris,
Yes definitely the same thoughts on the birch ply over the lite ply. The birch gives due stiffness as needed against the lite ply, being far too flexible for frames.
Your small craft which work great for you, have given me the final Yes, go ahead at 1:16 scale.
Naturally I will post pics as I progress, for no doubt will be back asking about suitable radio gear at that stage. I reckon the small 375 or smaller motor can go in the fwd cabin, leaving a 300mm shaft and 20mm 3 blade prop to run her nicely. The very large balanced spade rudders that protrude way beyond the transom enable these craft back in the day to turn their own length with ease.
Just drafting up the transom as we speak, coming along nicely on the drawing board from the original sketches I have. Need to complete the detailed drawings by end of next week to get off to Sheffield printers and enable me to press on constructing her.
Many thanks again
Paul
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Just beware of the weight and side area above the waterline. You'll know that you aren't likely to have a lot below it! :-))
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Spot on Tony,
Yes, that I am presently working on the overall top weight with roughly 2/3rds above the waterline I really need to factor that all in, the motor is going in on the keel footings, as will be the battery.
The cabin sides will be 1.5mm mahogany, planking 2mm lime, the internal bulkheads, decks and frames in 2mm birch ply with reinforced areas at the chine etc.[size=78%] [/size]
The fittings I shall be using are all to scale from the previous kits of Queen and Ring of light, I cast them in lightweight materials.
Being a craft that plods along also helps to a slight degree.
Cheers for your thoughts
Paul
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I meant to add that these craft underwater profiles almost went flat from the chine to the Hogg/Keel at around 2/3rds aft, which of course again all aids in the stabilisation a great deal.
Paul
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Hi, I've just weighed the tug and it comes in at 1lb 12oz. You're cruiser with its greater length and beam should accept more weight, I'me guessing at least 2 lb. The hull and wheelhouse are resin mouldings, a decent wooden hull should allow for weight savings.
Jim
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Hi there
Not strictly a cabin cruiser but a small cruiser that I built from The Hobbies Weekly magazine. The electronics I purchased from ACTion. The speed controller runs from the receiver power pack so everything is super lightweight and I used a mini-servo for the rudder. Without actually going to retrieve my model from the loft at the moment - She is 19 inches long and 4 inches beam, made from a mixture of lite ply/berch ply and I diagonally planked it with obechi planks and then overplanked them with 4mm wide x 0.5 mm thick mahogany strips.
Like I say without going in the loft on this hot day :-) to retrieve my model; I know its extremely light, even with the battery in. So, what you are proposing to do would be quite easy to achieve if care is taken.
I always think of these guys who do the magic plastic conversions. When you see the Airfix MTB model at 1:72 scale - that is quite an achievement.
[size=78%]Unknown Little Red Boat (modelboatmayhem.co.uk) (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,41059.0.html)[/size]
The link above shows the model I built and I am sure on this forum (under the title the year I was born 1955) the build of My Hobbies Model is there somewhere.
John
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Excellent John, many thanks for the info.
Blimey silly me I should have thought back, I have the same hobbies weekly mags with the plans, the alternative to your masterpiece is the Broads Cruiser "Crusader", which, funnily enough, a few months back I was considering building precise to the plans, for a bit of fun and even with the heavy little Mighty Midget motor I gained through EBay. In fact after reading your reply I rushed into my plans archives and pulled out both Hobbies plans to glance over.
Therefore as you perfectly state, if such a model can be achieved at 19", with a great deal less displacement than the Delight, I should have no real snags.
Quite exciting now, and moving through the drafting up of the lines plans, which needed cleaning up a great deal, but getting there swifto.
I shall not inform the chap whom has requested the model, until all the drawings are 100% complete and her frames are on the baseboard... But looking good as a positive way forward.
Thank god for Model Boat Mayhem, and all you superb guys out there full of mass experience in the world of radio controlled boats.
Huge thanks again
Paul
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if i may link to a different model boat website where i document the creation of a 15" coast guard utility boat, which shares many commonalities with your 18" cabin cruiser.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?774053-Dumas-USCG-41-utb
in addition to that, there are many youtube videos for the original 15" utb from dumas products, upon which this derivative is based... on of which i will post the first chapter to here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_RvXpbmNk4
my version is vacform plastic, but the original is made of wood, primarily 1/8" ply for the keel and bulkheads, as well as 1/16" plywood for the skins.
my boat actually needs lead added to it to make it float on the water line. the all wood version, not so much.
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A look here - http://eezebilt.tk/plans.html (http://eezebilt.tk/plans.html) - might help.
Modern fittings like batteries, motors, radios, servos and ESCs are much smaller and lighter than they used to be, giving much more freedom in building. I would only source and fit a Mighty Midget if I really wanted to suffer and put observers off from getting into model boating. They were knocked off the market for the very good reason that Kako and Mabuchi motors were superior in every respect. Cost, size and reliability were all better. More modern motors are easier to suppress making them more suitable for radio. A MM only had to survive a few trips across a pond before the battery ran out, a radio boat with a modern battery should cruise a good hour. A motor recovered from a dead CD player will move an 18" long boat quite nicely for over an hour off 4 or 5 AA rechargeables. Thats an old type player, I am assuming that the wafer thin modern ones have a different platter drive.
Scale models work in full size conditions, which, despite protestations, do scale perfectly. Just the wrong way for us. Whatever the assumed scale, speed is divided by the square root of that scale. To compensate, the wind it is sailing through is multiplied by the same amount from the point of view of the model.
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Many thanks for the details to you both, most interesting information indeed.
Kind regards
Paul
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Paul......you may be aware that there is an absolute wealth of knowledge to be found on the Herbert woods WEB-site...Builder of the B74 Delight
It would appear that further detail of the 1930's built vessels, including the offering of plan availability
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.herbertwoods.co.uk%2Fabout%2Fhistory%2F&psig=AOvVaw0LATCDif0nHetW_WbRZ7xm&ust=1623736167016000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAwQjhxqFwoTCPjs3PS2lvECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.herbertwoods.co.uk%2Fabout%2Fhistory%2F&psig=AOvVaw0LATCDif0nHetW_WbRZ7xm&ust=1623736167016000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAwQjhxqFwoTCPjs3PS2lvECFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD)
She is clearly a displacement hull, my guess is say 38 ft x 12 ft x 2.5 ft and maybe 7 ton?
So it is best to start somewhere with fact %) , then scale down
Derek
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Using Derek's figures, an 18" model of a 38' boat gives a scale of about 1:25. 7 tons divided by 25 x 25 x 25 is a bit over 1 pound, so lots of attention to weight saving needed.
My 18" conversion of a plastic trawler kit weighs 1 pound 6 ounces ready to sail. A flat bottomed cabin cruiser has the potential to be built much lighter, but on a small model, everything that weighs anything has a very noticeable effect on trim.
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Just to reaffirm in your calculated predictions,
The real life Delight is 24' LOA, the model at 1:16 scale will be 18" LOA.
Cheers
Paul
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Hi Derek,
Yes thanks fully aware of the new Woods website, however I need to point out that the Delight Class is actually of the following measurements....24' LOA, 8'6" Beam and 2' Draft.
The Delight class were the smaller of the Light Class fleet, then the Ring of Light @ 36' and finally the Queen of light @ 42' LOA.
None of the Herbert Woods fleet of the bygone era of the 30s, were 38'...only the new GRP Cruisers measure in at 38.
After I left the Royal navy to retire, I worked as a boat builder carpenter helping restore an aging wooden hire fleet, and that is where I guessed the rough Displacement at 6/7 tonnes, it's very difficult as some of the old craft, depending on the timbers we came across, were waterlogged holding a great deal of weight, the reason some Cruisers transoms were below the original waterline than drawn up on build.
Cheers
Paul
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At 12 1/2" length (317.5mm or 31.74cm), Vic Smeed's "Mis Deeds" offers a virtual cavern for fitting todays minuscule electronics. Back in the fifties, a Model Maker construction article showed how to build a TG18 powered bang bang escapement steered model of a tug 5" (127mm 12.7cm) long.
Regards Ian.
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Cheers Ian,
Very reassuring to know that lovely piece of history.
Cheers
Paul
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Hullo Paul.....it sometimes takes a few posts for all to understand where the proposed build or design will come from
From this, I believe this could be a very interesting typical build :-)) from an earlier era, where speed was not the ultimate criteria
With your background, I look forward to the research & build thread continuing
Derek
PS....my estimates & displacement were simply that.......a guess from the image of B74........
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Yes thanks Derek,
Since early dawn I have studied the creations of Herbert Woods, such a legend in so many ways of boat building and designs. The modern fleet owe so much to Herbert.
In a bid recently, to check out various craft design against riverbank erosion underway and of various speeds, a few modern Cruisers were used, and God bless Herbert Woods 1932 Queen of light, testament to his superb designs, the Queen left zero wake and no disturbance against the modern craft...
Since the early 60s, I have been on the broads, though 4 yes ago moved away towards Barnsley area, and upon departing Potter Heigham, my wife and I just had to pay one final visit to Herbert Woods grave, and thank him, there he lies in a lovely plot with his wife Maud and their young son John who passed away at a very young age... So sad.
All my life I wanted to recreate the Woods early craft in miniature form, luckily I managed to gain various drawings, early sketches etc by Herbert, with the sole understanding that in any model kits etc, the drawings are not to be passed on, but that was not a problem when we put out the Ring and Queen kits back in 2017,...Now fully retired I am presently only doing the models on a commission basis, but who knows I may go back into the kit production runs next year if the interest is there... Just have to see I suppose.
Kind regards again
Paul
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I can see a bit of differential calculus coming out on this one once you've got the drawings done %) Lots of slices of boat but Lord know how I ever did it!
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Indeed Tony dear fellow.
Working hard at the lines plans as we speak, bit of a challenge as the lines plans went into the grave with Herbert Woods God bless him... I only have his rough outline general arrangements to go on, and the chine to Hogg he drew in, and lofted verticals at 7 degree offsets, the accuracy of the sheer and waterline curves getting them just right is hard work.. Completed stations 1 to 4, and now working through stations 5 to 10/Transom..getting there but I reckon at least another full week getting each lofted lines plan bang on.. All good fun though.
Cheers
Paul
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Hi Paul,
The only bit you're really interested in, I suppose, is the stuff below the waterline. That's where the displacement's going to lie in wait for the unwary!
I've always enjoyed making one-offs and it's often a case of flexing ones mathematical muscles, assuming one or two are left from the dark days of SOHCAHTOA!!
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Hi Tony,
Your thoughts made me laugh here in the hobby house, had to pause laughing for a cuppa.
I have now cracked the underwater profile thank god, but the sheer is playing up a fraction..
Trouble being Tony, over the years since Herbert Woods built the first of the class in 1930, many hull changes in design took place.. In late 1939 he moored all his craft around the large waters of Hickling Broad in an attempt to evade enemy aircraft from landing a raid to England... There the poor old craft sat for 5 yes, then post war late 45 ish, he took on the mammoth task of refloating the craft, most had simply sunk in the muddy waters, where he salvaged some front ends, played around with jigging profiles etc... Then as the years went on into the 60s, before the fleet were sold into private hands, further alterations were again made.
Therefore here I am jigging between pretty, post war and latter yrs to gain the best possible in accuracy, getting there, though of course such changes do in fact help somewhat with the design licence of changes, who is alive to speak different.. Lol.
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Hi there Paul
Just another thought; have you got access or do you know of anyone who has - any manuals from The Motor Boat and Yachting range?
I know they did a magazine as well as a yearly manual - and - I know somewhere they did an article on Norfolk Broads Cruisers and their design. Old age catching up with me here - I cant remember if its in the Manual or in Magazine. Just a thought......
John
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Ah ha, yes thanks John, I have that, indeed a few decent articles over the years have been produced, Yachting Monthly, Watercraft, Classic Boat to name a few, but again the authors are all tied into the rights of the original designs, and so only GA profiles were shown. Model Boats did an article back in Oct 1968 of the old Cruisers, which did show three key frames of typical hire Cruisers, again all various designs against each other, the boatyards wars back then eh...
Cheers
Paul
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I am actually moving along nicely, where the chine, Hogg, sheer and deck arrangements are just about in place, I may surprise myself and complete the plans by Thursday.
At the end of the day, even when the drawings come back from the printers in Sheffield, and I assemble the frames etc, it may be that a millimeter here and there need altering, and if I do, will readjust the drawings just in case of future requests from fellow model boaters.
Cheers
Paul
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Don't worry Paul, jiggling and joggling are well understood round 'ere!
Luckily, I don't have to look at it from your perspective and you certainly have my respect for the way you've approached the re-creation.
I think that my methodology tends to be that if I've got the loa, beam and a couple of pics showing the bow and the chine line, I've got a fighting chance of a reasonable shape. Other details are available if you're dead lucky!
If you look on the Scuderia Lockdown thread in the Powerboat section, you'll see what I mean. The red one is Sonny Levi designed Ultima Dea and the other is Colin Mudie designed Jackie S. I've no idea atall how close to accurate they are but all I'm after is a "fair representation".Both were built in the early '60s and still followed a lot of the Scott-Paine principles for offshore racing but then the Surfuries and Cigarettes came onto the scene and effectively made UD and JS redundant. Whichever way it comes out, using whichever approach, it's good fun............especially if it floats O0
Cheers
Tony
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Tony dear chap,
I just love all you state, and indeed "A Fair Representative of the real craft", if it looks good, pleasing to the eye, then what more can we ask of lol.
Cheers again
Paul
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Too Kind, Too Kind! %)
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Yippee, Brilliant stuff,
Just completed the lines plans for Delight, amazed myself, by simply pausing for an hour, jigging frames 3 & 4 at the chine, then running up the verticals to 1/2 a mm, and hey presto the curves joined in lovely and gently.
That's all it took on such small scale... A fraction of a mm.. I really thought I would be playing about for days on this.
All I need to do now is draw in the cabin furnishings, fine pen in all the work and get off to the printers.
It means on Tues I can then work out what timber I need, which I purchase from Hobbies at Norfolk, always given me good quality timber at good prices...
Excellent progress, mind you it will be fun taking 2mm off every frame to be spot on, but that's all the fun.
Cheers again All for your input, been great advice when it comes to installing the radio gear.
Paul
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As promised, I shall take lots of pics as I move along with the old lady.
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Just took a photo to show my current Broads boat projects underway, only for MBM to reject the size, damn it. I shall have to find a way of reducing the size.
Cheers
Paul
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Just took a photo to show my current Broads boat projects underway, only for MBM to reject the size, damn it. I shall have to find a way of reducing the size.
Cheers
Paul
A much read thread here - https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61103.0.html
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Yes thanks for that,
But it's the reduction in size the snag,
I shall just have to transfer the photos onto the PC and reduce through the coral programme.
Cheers
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Just to let you all know, that after today I will close posting in this thread and start up a new one titled "1930s Broads Cruiser Building Project"... There I can continue to post lots of progress photos from beginning to end, and hopefully will almost become an informative thread where newcomers can see any pitfalls, and with any questions I have along the way of her build, your professional thoughts will also help others, and me...
Should be a real fun build...
Just penning in the plans today for the printers, then tomorrow mark up the building board exact etc....
I will be running with two builds, the Delight and Happy Days the forward drive Broads day boat built for George Formby in 1950, Happy Days will be 1:12 scale.
Cheers again
Paul
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Paul if it is of any assistance I have access to Delight vii (i believe) now called Water Rail, the later boats are an extra foot or two longer, I will be out on the Broads in her next week if you need to see any details or want to take dimensions, the real interest is the external steering wires down the port deck, going to the quadrant in the box on the deck in the rear, this would be a nice feature to reproduce in the model.
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and some more pics
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The model you are proposing is of interest to me as i too intend a model of this boat, once I have completed the one i am in progress of Broad Ambition., but I will attempt this at 1/12 scale.
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if you need any detail photographs of any part of the boat, do contact me and i will do my best.
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Hey Grendel dear fellow, wonderful, perfect, brilliant.... You can tell how utterly excited I really am over your lovely post.
Yes you are quite correct Water Rail is indeed Delight VII, she was built by Herbert in 1932, 12 of the class were built. He did the class in odd and even numbers, where there were only internal design changes to the accommodation layouts.
All 12 of the class were originally built at 24' LOA, 8'6" Beam, and 2' Draft. Following on from post war Herbert put in a number of changes to hulls of all his light class fleets, though I believe that Water Rails extension to 27' was made after she went into private ownership... Pretty sure that's the case, as I see no records of such an expansion by Herbert, his Ring, Dancing and Queen of light classes had the odd 6" to 1' increase, but nothing more discussing way back with his Daughter and Herbert Grandson, when I originally laid down plans for model kits, but huge thanks as any pics of external detail all about the hull, the midship run down several of the cockpit would be excellent. If you could get a few of the cabin internals for this model, would be great, huge thanks.
Its rather sad I feel of Water Rail name change, but that had to go in place through an agreement with the owners taking her from Herbert, Woods did not want her name as Delight VII going about in case she fell into bad hands and I'll repair, bad for his reputation.
The only shame of Water Rail is the fact that her fwd topside cabin sides are painted white, when of course her original was lovely varnished Mahogany.. When I spoke with the then owner at Horning a while back, I did state that part would have been lovely to see returned.
Its also of interest that both Spark, Queen and Prince (debatable), have all retained their original names with zero redress from Woods yard. In fact Queen sports the Woods bow pennant and star.. Flash sold recently as you know to private, retains the star on her bows... All good stuff.
In relation to the finish of the Delight model I am making for a chap who has two of our other light class kits, he wanted it in the same scale, understandable of course, but such presents a little extra work on my part having her detailed but also with radio gear installed. My personal preference would have been to raise her to 1:12 scale, which eases things and period model furniture etc for the cabins is all readily available through hobbies shops etc... I have one last chance to convince him this week as the drawings go off to the printers on Wed,....
Areas like hand grab rails, extra rubbing strakes, and even the cockpit to cabin doors, single, to double and back again, even opening into or from the cockpit were constant changes by Herbert, so from the perspective of this model, whatever scale, I am aiming to do the finer details as was on commission in 1930/31....Even the keel/hogg/rudder designs altered, in particular post WWII after Herbert refloated the fleet from Hickling broad and rebuilt them all, as you'll probably be aware with all your good fine research.
I spoke with the guys of Broad Ambition way back, seeing their model, all great stuff.
Back onto your voyage, I recently sent an email to the new owners of little Water Rail, giving them a heads up of the scale model, but typical of this sad pandemic, I only received a bog standard reply, automated email stating "thank you for you enquiry,...." with all information of the fact that they are not hiring her out presently,... I therefore politely replied as to the content of my email and not relating to hiring the old lady... Interesting that your setting off ahoy on board her shortly...
Safe and enjoyable trip dear fellow, just like going back in time it will be, give Salhouse, Malthouse and Hickling Broads our love please, we badly miss the place...
Do please keep in touch and many thanks for the kind offer of photos and measurements.
Safe voyage dear fellow.
Kind regards
Paul
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I meant to add Grendel, ref the steering quadrant runs, yes it's truly lovely to replicate working in model form, I still have all the mouldings I created for Ring of light in our kits, I would pass on but of course wrong scale at 1:16 sadly my friend.
Cheers again
Paul
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Grendel, just to let you know that box over the Quadrant was an afterthought manufacture by the owners who took her on into private ownership. I understand their reason to avoid a snagging and tripping hazard, but of course the box was never there when in the hire fleet. I personally love to see it as it should be, a fine piece of engineering design fully visible working.....
Cheers again
Paul
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Just completed penning in the Delights plans, profile and lines, phew a task and a half, but got there.
Tomorrow onto the building board, marking up the station positions etc.., and ordering timber from Hobbies in Norfolk.
Cheers
Paul
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The current situation with WR is that she is not for hire, the owner however runs a buddy scheme, with 3 of us sharing the annual costs mooring river toll and insurance etc, for this we get a minimum of 7 weeks cruising (if we can use it all) as far as i know she was bought into private hands about 60 odd years ago and stayed in one family until the other year when my friend acquired her, she was never extended under their ownership, and is rated at 26 foot, (i believe no two of the delights were exactly the same dimensions, they didnt build to plans back then) though some internal fit out modifications have been done, and she will soon be going out of the water to have some more remedial work done (it was supposed to be last winter, but was cancelled,) she needs new water tanks as the current ones leak, and a complete rewire to replace what looks like 1930's household wiring. the wood on the cabin sides, i would love to see reinstated, internally it looks wonderful, I am inclined to keep the box over the steering quadrant, its hard enough keeping the mooring ropes out of the steering wires already there are still some existing original features, the louvered grills under the deck step to allow ventilation to the engine bay for one. I can make myself a quadrant if / when i build the model, as i can get the measurements and have a decent set of machine tools to work with. there is a fair amount of space under the cabin sole for the motor and radio gear to hide, even at 1 /16 scale there should be room for a reasonable motor. anyway, I will get some detail photos for you next week and post them here on this thread if thats ok with you- they will come in handy for my build too. do you attend the wooden boat show at beccles at all in august as I should be there with WR as will the owner in one of his other boats (he should be there - he organises it all), , I would be happy to show you round WR and should also have my Broad Ambition model in attendance too.
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Lovely hearing from you dear fellow, it's all fantastic history all things classic broads craft.
Yes she did stay in private hands throughout, the same until your friends purchased her... I watched the sale with interest, priced at 17K, seems cheap but of course as well you will know, that's only the surface, then bounces in the ongoing maintenance costs of rising timbers..
Off topic, we owned a 34 footer Ernest Collins 1920 River Cruiser yacht, in between my royal navy service away, on every leave I would replace timbers/ribs, planking, new cabin sides, spars, rigging, sails, etc, you name it. We paid 8K for the yacht, but upon my works put in over 30K of materials just to bring her back to her former glory, then every season at least 2K, plus moorings... Sadly so many take on wooden Classics without the knowledge of upkeep, and so they fall by the wayside to watery graves, sadly. Breaks my heart... Luckily I was able to do all the works myself, had I not, would never have bought her.
Looking at WR, I would think it's a good time coming up when she goes into the shed to have complete new cabin sides all round, looks like previous a great deal of timbers have been spliced into her holding back the thought of full restoration.... .. How long has she been "Wet" in the water since her last refurb....interesting stuff.
All that said looking at her way forward it's good that the new owners have her on the go being used by you guys, rather than sitting there doing nothing freezing up with damp creeping in..
I can just imagine the state of the wiring, surprised the survey did not pick it up on the 4 annual, but hey ho, at least your all onto it eh..
The model I am producing will have the traditional drop down canvas screens all round as was...
Did not plan for the Beccles event this year, but now you mention it, sounds good, and would be great to meet you, and see your lovely creation of lovely old BA.
Have you noticed WRs Stern sitting in the water, dropped a couple of inches since her build lol... Never surprising though since she has been about for so long, timbers get waterlogged.
I am really honoured meeting you in here, so much to mull over, a small world... We shall Deffo need to swap pics and build experiences of our little old Classics eh... I shall try again and put in pics of the models I built, just have to downsize them...
Huge thanks again for the pics your doing, very very kind.
If you do need any odd scale fittings ready made for your Broads models, in the future at 1:16 scale, I would be honoured to send them on as freebies.
Kind regards again, love to WR, pat her on the Stem from me please.
Paul
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the reason she sits low at the stern is she is ballasted low there, there is probably about 100lb + of lead weights just there, a 3" thickness across the entire stern hull planking, this was because she had been sat stern high and wasnt sitting in the water properly, once the bow water tank was filled she was particularly nose heavy. the owner is the son of a norfolk boat builder, so knows his stuff, once she is out of the water I expect I will take some time off to assist in the repairs, I know the internal cockpit fitout is due some attention, but thats been altered before. she is still light at the stern, in a heavy side wind she turns into the wind as the keel stops just over halfway down from the front, so the back gets blown round.
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Interested in what you say relating to the added ballast and Keel.
The original Keel was specifically designed by HW to commence at 1/5th from the stem, cutting into the Hogg aft again at 1/5th..it makes me wonder if negative alterations were made at some stage to her GA, as consequence, completely threw her handling design out.
These craft had the famous reputation of being perfectly handled, in their own length, with perfect ease, in all weathers, weather helm in particular was HW key element in the design. I can therefore fully understand why the pig iron/lead addition from the owners professional father, but of course he will be well aware of the probable constant tweeks in the design her no avail over the years.
I had similar snags on the yacht, and indeed on a couple of Cruisers I worked on as a carpenter for a hire fleet company after leaving the navy... I just had to get to the bottom of the problems in the handling changes, and took it upon myself to seek further advice from a top class architect and again, like your owners father, a top end boat builder of huge reputation... Both came back to me and confirmed my thoughts of the constant design changes over the years, where perhaps someone changed the Keel etc, in turn upsetting the original balanced rudder, or even a prop style change.
This point you raise of WR being 26', although of course not doubting your good self, just does not also sit right,.. HW built all 12 at 24', to add another 2', at some stage, will of course dramatically alter her handling big time.... I would love to know where this additional 2' has been filtered in, and when I wonder for the accurate data I have shows the Delights specs, give or take 6" were minimal... Of course the real changes to the light fleet were that of the enclosed cockpits patented by HW post war.. .. Really fascinating stuff.
The owners father being a highly respected boat builder, will I am sure, knowing him, be really eager to get in there with WR and rip her apart to bring her right up to top class standards eh... Will be lovely I am sure, and good on you, my highest respect for your lending hands in her ongoing care, HW will be looking down smiling no doubt with thanks.
It will be brilliant seeing pieces of her underwater profiles when you do,..
By the way, yes thanks on the model being OK for a small motor etc.. I plan, presently to have the motor in the fwd cabin just on the Hogg, using a 300mm shift and 20 or perhaps 25mm three blade RHT prop, but the water trials will determine which way to go there of course....
Cheers again for all your highly appreciated info on the changes of WR, I just love it...
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Thinking further, as you do lol... I would wage a bet previous to your new ownership, that upon discovering rot in her Keel, someone decided to chop out the rot, hence inadvertently cutting away a huge portion of the Keel, not understanding of the damage bestowed on the poor old lady's handling, balance, and so much more... For her Keel to begin 50% from the stem is way off the design.
Cheers again dear fellow
Safe boating, and fine model boating
Onwards and upwards eh
Paul
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http://www.broads.org.uk/wiki2018/index.php?title=Style_Details&style=Dlit explains that - Woods probably built thirteen of these craft, very few now survive and although all were quoted as 24ft long in a 1952 catalogue they were all different lengths, with one later quoted as 29ft long!
as for handling, yes I would say that they are very responsive in most weathers, but in may we had quite a blow, and i was crossing Breydon in 2 foot waves, she handled it quite well, but the squalls always took the stern around, i guess I crossed breydon with the wind off the rear port quarter and following tide, and had about 10-15 degrees of helm (as measured at the wheel, nearly 1 spoke round from normal central position to steer a straight course (that day Breydon was shut to hire craft it was that bad) she handled the waves superbly, it was just the weather helm that was a bit off.
As far as I can tell she was built at 26 foot, the prop is about 5 foot in front of the stern (when I was swimming round her, i could just touch it with my foot at full stretch and keep my head out of the water) the ned of the keel is probably about a foot further forward, so thats nearer the 1/4 hull length off the transom the rudder extends about 6 to 8" past the end of the transom, and i believe WR's needs the quadrant turning slightly as its about 15 degrees off dead centre when the rudder is pointed straight, though this may be to fully turn the rudder to starboard for stern moorings as it will go to 90 degrees to the boat in this direction.
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the winds were 50 mph with a yellow weather warning that day,
As i said, I dont believe any of the delights (except maybe the first) was built to the plans, in those days they knew what a boat looked like and just built it as they went, if the timber they had for the keel was a bit short, they made it short and adjusted, or made it a foot or so longer if the timber was longer.
I also remember hearing stories that hire boats were sunk in the broads over the war to stop sea planes landing, and that a lot of the transoms suffered particularly, during the war, timber supposedly destined for torpedo boats was squirreled away by some of the boatyards, and it was this that after the war enabled them to repair the rotted transoms and build new boats, so some of the length differences could stem from these days too.
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this is partially documented in the history of spark of light - https://www.herbertwoods.co.uk/blog/history-of-spark-of-light/
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Ah ha, decent winds ahoy there scuppered, brings me back tacking about Barton Broad with her reefed right down, lovely, over shadowed every cruiser that day, kicking up a few good knots over the ground lol...
Yes I can confirm about the mooring of the craft on Hickling Broad in 1939, recovered late 45/46 were most had sunk, unattended for five yrs sadly.
That's why I mentioned about post WWII changes by HW as what he recovered most parts were only the bow sections, the rest had to be completely rebuilt, but, and this is where I do stand firm of HW designs, the larger 42 lights had 8 to 12" additions, rings etc slightly less, but the designs were retained as close as possible to originals, this was because HW knew of the handling success in his fleet, why then alter them beyond such...
The post WWII changes were the cabin sides light availability where portholes were opened out at every other one to give better light in the cabins, same as for the church windows in the larger craft, opened out to ovals, and the cockpits patented design removing the drop down screens.
HW was meticulous in getting his builds just bang on, all of them at build, he treated every build inaugural cruise like a warship captain taking over a new command, not one rivets out of place. He was a lovely man, firm but fair... But never would he accept builds against his design, never.
I agree where your coming from of boatyards using any item possible to effect repairs mid hire seasons, eg:.. A yachts self tacking jib boom broke, to be replaced, though still balanced with perhaps a yard from a Bure White boat half decker, but history evidence shows HW a real stickler for his designs being kept as such. This detail of evidence follows my own decades of speaking with his closest and boat builders of the past...
I love these solid debates with fellow kern boaters of experience, love it to bits, good old pub banter indeed, but all good..
So there we have it, hey ho, who the heck cut little old White lady WRs Keel short, and who mucked about with her midriff poor old girl.... Ooh I love this... You have really cheered me up no end, from badly missing my time all things Broadland, you have revitalised my enthusiasm for the same, excellent
Cheers
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Sorry, I typed my reply before you posted the link to Spark.
Yes thanks, well up on her history.. She sold for 120K recently, mind u again, I loathe the white painted topsides, each to their own I suppose.
HW Spark/Flash was modelled on his first Light Class Cruiser, Speed of Light, which he first built in 1926, she was the embryo for the class, that class was 34' LOA, then in came Ring at 36', all drew 2' of water with the Delights, only the 42 footers drew slightly more at 2' 6".
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Slightly off topic, BTW, are you the chap who constructed the model of BA a few years back, I remember chatting back then, lovely workmanship by the way..
Didn't you have to draft up new lines plans for her, or were you lucky enough to have found an old print.
Some of the other Broads craft design originals I have were kindly passed to me late 80s by Chris Jeckells of Jeckells Sails, was like a treasure to me, they were left to Chris by the various boatyards owners that shutdown, and seeing that my wife and I were doing scale models, passed them on..
I have also some new craft lines plans of the latest broads craft, interesting though they are, never got round to making models of the same.
I have countless plans of HW yachts, dinghies etc, made two, and finally the plans of the famous 1947 Japonica, a nice little RCC yacht still in hire of course.. She turned out nice as a scale model.
You clearly have the same passion all things Broadland Classics lol.
Cheers again
Paul
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Sorry again Grendel, just read your post of crossing breydon, must have been fun times.
On your guesstimate of the prop etc positions, yes, the profile drawings I have for the class are the same as for ring, at the aft and stem underwater.. Just measured the scale rudder on the plans and it's drawn in protruding 9", so pretty spot on with your feet lol. Also the drawings show the prop set at 18" from the transom, but with your extra 2' on WR it adds up of her length, which must have been put in post WWII refurbishment, and possibly the mid cockpit area extended... Though you will no doubt have your model based on 26', I am taking the hit keeping B74 Delight first of the class at 24' scaled down.
Cheers again for the first class info
Paul
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Grendel, a final thought for zee dear fellow,
That thread mentioned a possibility of 13 Delights built... This thought and similar to the larger of the class, this debate has been going on around Broadland for decades, but to put a finer point to the debate of numbers, HW made name changes to a couple of Cruisers, one is firmed up that owing to a fire in Flash of Light, he changed the name on her first season post refit, but with that in came the Broads/Then Blakes registered number, in the mix up, this new name and Hull number came in, and shown in the Blakes Jollidays books, having people speculate he built more than first registered, but clearly not the case, this was also the same for Prince of Light, again name change, but still the same original numbers built. It even took some time for the archives of Herberts Daughter and boat builder grandson some time to work it all out when I went through it with them in detail, as I had to be sure the scale model kits I were producing with the names available in each class were bang on correct, or would have caused big snags you'll understand.
Hope that helps somewhat, but I note still the debate goes on around the Broads... HW looking down smiling, as only he knows when and why lol.
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Yes I am the chap that made the Broad Ambition model (well 2 of them actually, one for me and one for the owners), still working on final touches on the owners model, lights etc and have just got a sample of the new upholstery material to make the cockpit cushions with. i drew up the plans and lines from photographs and actual measurements.
apparently Griff has met someone who claims to have the original plan for Broad Ambition, but its never come to daylight yet.
Yes I have a great fondness for the Broadland woodies, when I hired it was always from Marthams, then when the chance of the buddy scheme on Water Rail came along, it was just so perfect an opportunity.
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Wow, good on you for taking on the buddy scheme of WR. Do u plan to bring her name back to original, and replace her Star etc, or keep her as is at WR.
Well we then spoke way way back briefly when you constructed your first BA model, and I have to say a real cracking job you made of her too, should have gone into the model engineer exhibition for a deserved award.
When I put out the plans for a venture to provide scale model kits of classic Broads Yachts and Cruisers, still serving in the Military, it seemed a foregone conclusion of the market research I conducted that the business was to be a real winner.... Everyone jumped for joy, wanting a model, seemingly the price was not a concern.. Based upon this we went ahead and brought out a large scale yacht in 2005, at 1/8 scale of the Farrington 30, measuring in at 46". We sold a few, even one went out to the US, we then sold a 1:8 scale dinghy which again sold but not big figures,... We had two highly praiseworthy articles written by a writer and model boat enthusiast for the model press, upon those articles coming out we thought would generate mass enquiries, but still minimum interest, even though we kept quality very high and costs very low barely covering all.
I got an appointment with the navy to the far east and so we of course ceased trading, as it was pointless farming out the venture with such a small odd trickle of orders coming in, if at all by then, even though everyone who took on our kits were highly praiseworthy.
Moving on a decade, and nearing the end of my service time, wondering what 2nd career would be good, I decided to reinvesting the business, and again put out research to see what we could offer better. It came in that smaller, though still high quality, not semi scale, models moreso of broads Cruisers, would be highly attractive to people, not just model boaters. So, from Model Yacht Design we drew up Broadland Classics, thinking a hit with a variety of choice.. The 42 and 36 famous light classes, and one yacht the Japonica... But each kit supplied with a scale kit of the dinghy Timorese, even with its own little lug sail... Therefore two kits in one, every conceivable item was supplied bar paint to complete the kits, and we kept the price as low as possible, making just £50 on each, which actually came in on the books at zero once our added costs showed up, so no profit, but this was to be an 18 month trial period only.
We had a trickle, if that of orders, and all those that screamed of wanting a kit, never came forward, it was only ever from people that never made a kit before in their lives, interestingly each customer made first rate jobs following our instruction manuals. Their praise of our kits could not have been better, but still no grounds to run a viable business from.. Conclusion, it goes to show, that whilst the world has a wish for a product in some cases, simply a dream. We therefore wound up Broadland Classics as was.
Soon after we had the odd flutter of enquiries for models of certain craft hired etc.. I
Now, it's clear looking at forums, whenever I post something of Broads craft models, the viewing interest is really negligible compared with other topics. One chap said he wanted one of our kits, but the price was too high, nothing we could sadly control.
Therefore now retired my wife and I have moved on an constructed a purpose built Hobby House in our garden, we love it, and are simply focused upon, yes more broads Classics, but for that lovely museum of the future, and the odd private commissions. As where not one model boater has asked for a kit here or through other forums, tells us selling kits of Broadland Classics is not a winner in any way, just no where near as popular as we were led to believe.
People seem delighted with semi model kits like the Sea Commander and Queen often referred to as Broads Craft, clearly our thoughts on the subject are way off the mark, hey ho, one learns the expensive way eh...
We even put out Half Hull detailed models of the same, still zero interest.
Still adore the construction of Broads Craft for ourselves.
There you have it dear fellow.
Paul
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I can understand, the second model of Broad Ambition is being made at cost only for the owners, me donating the time I have spent over 4 years making the model, they paid for materials for both models, and still it has worked out over £700, factor in time and the cost would be prohibitive, but then I am doing it for my enjoyment. there is a niche market out there, but people want a model at a fraction of the cost in time or materials, and made up too, not many people want to spend the time to build a kit, or even less to do what we have done and build from scratch. its a big investment in time and money, my incentive was that it was an affordable way to own my own wooden boat, a realisation that has in a way been fulfilled by my buddy share in WR, it is my belief that the name will stay, as she has spent more of her life with that name than otherwise.
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All makes perfect sense buddy in all you state.
Yes prohibitive costs indeed.
Here's the icing on the cake thing, even the owners, pretty rich guys I would guess, we're not even interested in purchasing scale model replicas, which I was prepared to fully construct, just them to front up material costs, of their Light Class craft, that was Queen and Prince, which really dropped me into reality upon the close of Broadland Classics. I thought excellent PR for all concerned as they run river tours, but still zero uptake.
I am doing a model concurrent with Delight, of Happy Days, a 1:12 scale model of a rather nice forward drive Broads Day boat design by HW for George Formby back in 1950. As a piece of difference, it will be interesting to see thoughts in this forum of its style. We shall see eh dear fellow.
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You'll smile at this one too.... I acquired a lovely working large scale model that was built way back in 1930 by Johnsons Yacht Station in Acle, as a functional display model for Blakes Holidays/Jollidays head office in 22 Newgate Street, London, for viewing to the public of Broads Cruiser Cirrus... Just before lock down in Autumn 2019, I thought it would be lovely for the model, lovely detail throughout, to go back to its original birthplace... I sent an email with piccys to Johnsons, only asking for a small return donation which was destined for the Museum of the Broads, gobsmacked, the owners came back with zero interest whatsoever.. I then called them as I were more than interested to know why no interest in such a historic model... Answer, because we are only interested in modern builds etc etc... Left amazed, I thanked them and have retained the model, which one day I am sure will find its way the the lovely museum upon my passing, together with my collection.
There you go another gobsmacking thought of a reality check.
Cheers
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the reason she sits low at the stern is she is ballasted low there, there is probably about 100lb + of lead weights just there, a 3" thickness across the entire stern hull planking,
well, now I am aboard, i have checked and there are 6 large ingots of lead in the stern, a quick guesstimate is each is about 25 lbs or more.
i have taken some pictures which I will upload when i get home, but for instance did you know the windscreen slides down and forward, the tracks for this being in the side rails, and there are 2 pins in the screen each side as guides that run in the rails, I will get some more pictures next time i lower the screen, as its currently raining.
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Excellent mate,
I do hope the dreaded weather is being kind to you on board. What's the passage plan for today then.
Yes it's both very strange of the weighting down of her rear end, and of course way out of her design. Very strange indeedy.
Yes I was aware of her Windscreen design cheers, this was the original HW patented design for the Delights, and of the larger craft had a plainer afair, that quadrant and block system in the steering was his design too, following which many others followed suit.
As the model I am constructing follows the original 1930 design, I will be having the all side canvas drop downs for her cockpit, having said that, it may be good at some point to construct a post WWII model, so to see that detail for future would be good indeed.
I have also been very busy transferring the frames and keel onto card, where tomorrow I will cut out the card, and assemble simply to double check the lines flow nicely between frames, before cutting into the 2mm ply frames etc.
All the timber etc I ordered from Hobbies Shop in Beccles arrived safely, so I can press on. Photos of progress to follow next week dear fellow.
Your one lucky chap out there on board WR, amongst the lovely settings of the Broads. Where do Adam and Kate keep WR moored BTW.
Safe trip, looking forward to the piccys
Paul
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I was at wroxham today, South Walsham last night Bridge broad tonight.
Ah, I see why you might not have got a reply to your enquiries, WR is currently owned by a chap named Dave and is moored up in Oulton Broad. weather, well not the best but I am making the most of it
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Oh I get it now, Adam and Katie sold her on... Then they really should have removed her from their website by now, rather naughty that leaving her on.
Never knew she was now down the southern end of the broads, by heck.
Sounds a good trip, We used to Moor up on a wild mooring on the mouth just opposite St Benets, then walk the dogs down the towpath to South Walsham, and the opposite direction to Upton, great fun.
Shame about the weather for u, last week u would have been basking in the hot sun on deck...
Enjoy and safe trip.
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ok as promised, some detail pictures
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and some more
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and yet more
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still more to come
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yet a few more, its the little details thay I feel make a model.
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not too many more now
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Well, thats the lot, if you need any more pictures I m back to the boat on 11th August, just let me know what details / measurements you need and I will try and assist
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Excellent work my mate, lovely details, yes quite a few will really help out there.
Thanks.
Looks like it was a pretty wet week on board, good fun though I hope.
Here, I have been carefully cutting out the frames and keel etc, checking all fit into place nice and snug, should have some pics to show shortly of her progress, at 1:16 scale it's pretty delicate work cutting each frame precise as you'll know, fun though mate.
Cheers as always
Paul
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Lovely boat. :-))
Brings back fond memories of my first Broads holiday in 1961, aboard Bowell & Harper's 'Excel'.
OK, so she caught fire in the middle of Breydon, but it was a great holiday........ ok2
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Grendel.......I recognise most of the brass hinges & things, but the item has me stumped??........... Derek
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Grendel.......I recognise most of the brass hinges & things, but the item has me stumped??........... Derek
normally I think they would be chromed, they are air intakes, the cap is to stop water entering the air inlet, like a mushroom vent
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there is one each side (although not symetrically placed) I presume as air inlets for the engine, which would probably originally have been a petrol engine.
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Trying to post original pics of WR, of her in 1932 when she was newly built. They were not on her then, with her little petrol four cylinder Morris Vedette self starter, petrol. So can only have been fitted post hire for her diesel unit, I would hazard a guess.
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Just pondering about this...... %)
From the sizing or apparent air flow path, I doubt they are for primary combustion air, but if for the engine could be atmospheric breathers, similar to those connected to the tappet covers on engines 40 years ago....
You know.......before all of these new fangled PCV's...[valves which connect engine fumes into the air inlet for "again, again" re-combustion <*<
Derek
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Just pondering about this...... %)
From the sizing or apparent air flow path, I doubt they are for primary combustion air, but if for the engine could be atmospheric breathers, similar to those connected to the tappet covers on engines 40 years ago....
You know.......before all of these new fangled PCV's...[valves which connect engine fumes into the air inlet for "again, again" re-combustion <*<
Derek
From what I remember of Morris Minor engines (which is what a Vedette was), the air intake was about 2 or 3 square inches, so a quite modest vent would let the engine breathe freely. Having been marinized, the cooling would have been to and from the water that the boat was running in.
Of course, any internal combustion in an enclosed space needs its compartment to be ventilated to prevent the build up of fumes from leaks of anything volatile. In a car, such things just drip away and leave stains on the driveway, in a boat they tend to gather.
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Hi Grendel,
Progressing on little Delights frames, bit by bit.
However when it comes to the upper deck construction on her cabin sides, in the drawings, and original photos, I interpretation her forward cabin sides are slab sided to her foredeck, with no curvature. Is it possible to confirm this please at some stage. Obviously HWs larger Light Class fleet had all their cabin sides conform to the hull extent, though I am pretty sure, the Delights were straight being very short and somewhat difficult to bend Mahogany of 1" thick over such a short run.. Not concerned with the cockpit to aft cabin for they clearly run parallel to the sheer sides. Any measurements you may have on the fwd cabin roof/sides plan view, would be great. Cheers and fair winds.
Paul
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Hmm mm, Decisions decisions for sure on this one. Currently have the 1930 photos under the microscope, comparing against your photos, and of course the original grainy HW drawing...
What again is very clear to me, the changes to widen the fwd Cockpit sides on WR, can only have been added in 1946, post WWII, at that year HW redesigned his Light Class fleet.. His original design was always to have a gentle flowing sweep design from aft, to cockpit, to fwd cabin sides... Post WWII he clearly brought the Delights fwd cabins wider than the cockpit coaming sides.
Since the model I am constructing, follows the Delights first build, I can really only go on what I have available. I now need to ensure the cabin sides run with a very slight curve sweeping fwd, too much and the slider windows would fail...
Cheers
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If you look at the picture showing the sliding window above, you can clearly see a slight curve to the cabin side, pay attention to the track, the track is under the roof line at the rear, and protrudes outside the roofline at the front, so while the track is straight, the inner edge of the track timber conforms to the curve of the cabin sides, thats how it seems to me , I will look through my other photos to see if it shown clearer anywhere.
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Yes cheers Shipmate, precisely what I studied against the 1931 WR pic, of which differ... His original sides were straight slab, though of course in yours shows an approx 5% curve,.. Laying out the flexi on the drawings there's not much room for error.. I shall just have to keep jigging the curve on her plans until pretty much pleasing to the eye... Possibly the best course of action eh.
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yes, here is a better indication, its not a great curve, but looking at the join between the rail the sliding window sits and the cabin side, you can see the curve
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how about using a batten of timber of about the correct thickness to lay down the curve, this will be more indicative of how the real curves were created, as the wood wishes to bend.
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Yes lovely mate, cheers.
I use the Flexi curve on the drawings to create just that, a gentle flowing curve... Speaking the same thoughts you and I clearly.
Tried downloading WR pics, of her in 1932, but bounced as too high resolution. So going to flash up the PC, email pics to self, use photoshop to reduce and resend to you in here.
Cheers
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thanks, that would be nice, I have seen some earlier pictures of her, but the earliest was from the 1960's.
I have also noticed that the air intakes she has only appear on early pictures of other delight, that of delight XI B63 on a 2005 picture and delight 4 possibly in a 1962 picture, the 1949 picture of B63 Strangely called delight 6 on the boats of the norfolk broads database not showing it. most of the remaining pictures show the wrong side to easily ascertain the vents presence.
the pictures there show clearly that B73 had curved cabin sides in one shot though a black and white photo it is not dated
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here a couple of images from the previous owner dating from 1967 and 68 which was after the mast was added, they think made by Herbert Woods for them.
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Good pics mate. Yes I can confirm HW had his yard send her off into private hire with a decommissioning pennant, to achieve the lift of the pennant, he had the foremast constructed as a God bless to his hire fleet lady.
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Was funny really, as besides the decommissioning pennant, since HW ran with many contacts in the Navy, he went ahead and gained a number of White Ensigns to proudly display off the Transom Staff, at some point however seems the Ministry must have got involved, for White Ensigns are only to be displayed by British Warships.. He then, from the general design of the White Ensign, put up the Famous Light Class HW Ensign. which looked on par, but the word LIGHT in the centre of the Union quarter of the flag. I managed to have out model kits replicate that very LIGHT Ensign... All good historic stuff Indeedy.
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I have communicated with the previous owner, and she is insistent that her farther bought and paid for the foremast I photographed, she said
Sadly I don't think this tale is true as on the 24th August 1967 father was sent a bill which included:
Making up and fitting mast with mast hull and port and starboard navigation light wiring to suit.
Also for information Delight 1 was lost in a fire in 1953. Delight II is Jacqueline and III to VI went to Ireland
My records state: The log entry states ‘ship totally lost burnt out Saturday 23rd May. Advice recited by owners.’
though there is a fitting on the cabin fore that might have taken a pennant mast prior to the current one, these things often get mis remembered over time, and even the 1960's were a long while back, I hope the other information may come in useful.
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I am also aware of the delights that went to Ireland. Oh well, I can only go on the information I have, for in 1947, HW pit the hugely tall masts, as a trial, on the 42 footers.
Thanks anyway
Interesting
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I believe there is a shot of Water Rail B77 at around 3.48 on this 1940 film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qnwqw4oBq0&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qnwqw4oBq0&t=2s)
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for information, there is a delight class cruiser up for sale at this moment- Delight XI
https://norfolk.boatshed.com/herbert_woods_delight_class-boat-304314.html#boatmedia-114
Lots of pictures and some video if you register and log in, this might be useful to you in your model.
strangely she is called delight XI, but the norfolk broads database also lists the registration number as delight 6, which would make sense of the 1933 launch date , same as Water rail, Delight 7, as ever with boats of this age and norfolk broads hire yards, confusion over boat numbering can creep in, for example my friend who owns Water Rail also bought delight 1, only to later find she was actually Delight 2 (with delight 1's registration number.)
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cheers for that mate, missed that one, as i normally keep a check out on Topsail for Broads Craft being sold, but by heck now this little Delight is a superb example of decent restoration, and by no less than Colin Buttifant [he built my parents Bure Classic 'Iris'], a first class boat builder by heck is that man, with his son Paul and Wife Wendy, they sure have a top end reputation about the Broads.
Yes very familiar with the changes about Boatyards Craft reg numbers, though HW went through a number of the reg and name changes pre and post WWII, for a number of reasons, too much to raise in here probably hey ho.
Hows life with little WR these days, i take it she is out of the water now and in the sheds being prodded for plank and timber runs to be pulled and replaced.
Cheers as ever
Paul
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she is in the queue for being pulled out as soon as space becomes available.
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righty ho,
where are her sheds, Martham Boats normally have all thier craft etc tucked up by end Oct.
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unfortunately she doesnt have a shed to overwinter, she is currently tucked up at beccles, but she will go to a yard in lake lothing for work, which will give her a dose of salty water over the winter months