Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: mmartin1980 on October 04, 2021, 04:48:48 pm
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Heres the boat my grandad started and its about time i finished and got it in the water.... no idea what make it is, looks kind of like a swordsman / huntsman but back end different, its around 110cm long
(https://i.postimg.cc/YCPnYLsv/20211003-003722.jpg)
(https://postimg.cc/cvQBNCZW)
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That looks like a Veron Fairey Huntsman 28, 42 inches in length if it is.
They're a lump of a boat, but can make a really nice looking model.
I have one of these myself, ongoing project (as all of mine are :embarrassed: ), but from what I have seen of others peoples Huntsman 28, they perform really nicely with the right motor etc. The hull even copes with being well overpowered.
Please keep us updated with progress on it. I for one am interested in anything Fairey Marine.
Will
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its nice to have some idea what it is... thanks...
need to strip out old rudder, prop shaft and motor.... andy recommendation for a drive system... will those jet turbine things work lol
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This is my Huntsman 28.
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its nice to have some idea what it is... thanks...
need to strip out old rudder, prop shaft and motor.... any recommendation for a drive system... will those jet turbine things work lol
Obviously, it's your boat and what propulsion system you install is your choice. Being a Fairey, the most common, easiest and dare I say, effective is a single prop, twin if you prefer, but obviously more expense involved then. For a model this sort of size, a largish brushless outrunner would give you both good performance (from scale to wild, depending on budget and how fast you want it to be) and with the right size battery, decent duration too.
Will
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woo hoo its the same i have a huntsman 28!.... always nice to put a name to something lol
i know its my boat my choice etc etc but as im new to this i would gladly take on board recommendations, I just want to make this as good as i can make it with a reasonable speed, i need to remove the original prop shaft as when i tried it... well let's say a bag of spanners in a washing machine would have been quieter
I will go hunting for a motor and all extras needed and make a start of breaking out the original elements ready
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If you can wait until this evening, I will have a look in my spreadsheet I have been doing of all of my boats and suggested motor, esc, prop and battery.
Get the right setup installed and you'll be really pleased with the boat I'm sure.
Any ideas on colour scheme?
Mine was red and white when I got it, but i intend painting it traditional Fairey colours I think.
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that would be great thanks, as for colour scheme, i'm going to do my own thing... make it mine just not sure what yet, trying to decide over a coloured deck vs veneered wood look, definitely include some old school pinstriping somewhere, probably around the name on the back and sides
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I've sent you a message with a few ideas for motors etc.
Re colour, a majority of the Fairey race boats seemed to have painted decks, whereas a majority of the privately owned Faireys had varnished decks.
I look forward to any updates you post and hopefully seeing some pictures/videos of her on the water once done.
Will
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ok, done some shopping lol
Motor, ESC, propshaft, rudder, water pump, motor mount - all Bought, will post pics and details once all arrived
Looking at the exterior look of the boat, im not a fan of the pulpit/railing on the front so going to make my won and had an idea using stantions - how ever im having trouble finding ones that are at min 40mm tall and take a 4mm rod, everything i find seems to be 1mm hole - any suggestions on where i can find these??
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I've sent you a message with a few ideas for motors etc.
Re colour, a majority of the Fairey race boats seemed to have painted decks, whereas a majority of the privately owned Faireys had varnished decks.
I look forward to any updates you post and hopefully seeing some pictures/videos of her on the water once done.
Will
Would you mind sharing the motor, etc. info publicly as I have a similar size model (46" Crash Tender) that I need to re-motor but don't have much experience of brushless motors for larger boats.
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This is my Huntsman 28.
These models look like they have a nice substantial frame around the top fly windscreen Will - is it made from thin bent plywood?
I would like to try a similar technique on my Swordsman........perhaps... %)
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These models look like they have a nice substantial frame around the top fly windscreen Will - is it made from thin bent plywood?
I would like to try a similar technique on my Swordsman........perhaps... %)
Yes Bob, my H28 has been built in that way.
It's not shiny like some of the foil surrounds that some people add, but its got to be stronger in the long run.
Will
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I agree totally - and I actually think it looks better than an alloy foil frame (beauty is in the eye of the beholder I know).
If it is 1.5mm ply, it should bend OK - but it will not be too easy to cut the windows out well.
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well first part of my shopping list has turned up... and its not what i expected lol, parents (dad) offered to buy the motor and esc as a belated birthday pressie, so I forwarded him the list madwelshman kindly put together for me and he went "off list" and got something totally different... but its the thought that counts so i will make it work
Got a brushless inrunner 2598 4200kv motor with a 70a ESC, lots of connections for water cooling
(https://i.postimg.cc/gJTgd251/20211014-172031.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
just got to wait for the rest of my list to turn up
and many thanks for your advice madwelshman, sorry n behalf of my folks for not listening to you or me...
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Ohh thats still a really cool piece of kit......drool........ O0
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Wow! High kv rating! I take it you know that is rpm per volt! %%
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Hi All
The kv number is the rpm per volt, so, that is 4200 x 7.2 + 30240 rpm unloaded !!!!!
That's 9000 rpm more than my Huntsman motor and that's dam fast .
Canabus
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With that high KV motor, you'll want a smaller diameter prop, but with a relatively course pitch.
Like Zooma says, that's going to be a fast spinning motor/prop, even on just 2s.
As you say, it's the thought that counts.
You 'definitely' need to get yourself a wattmeter as well, so that you can check the load on the motor and ESC with different props, until you find one that works, but is still around 10% or so below the maximum that the ESC can handle, but also without overloading the motor.
The end of the day, if you find that set up isn't suitable for the Huntsman, it simply means you'll have to get another boat to put it in instead :}
Will
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If Canabus says it’s fast then it’s fast! %% Yep you might want to go lower Kv depending on your cell count and also watch the ESC matches the likely load.
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was looking at a 50mm prop?? advice welcome lol
also purchased a Surpass Rocket 2968 3400kv should i find the other an issue.... plus as you said... excuse for a bot it will work well in lol
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I don't know for sure, but i would say that a 50mm prop will be too big a diameter for a high kv inrunner.
30 - 35mm possibly? That is a guess though.
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Sorry, but both motors have way too high a kv rating for boats like the Huntsman 28.
Something more suitable would be in the 900 - 1200 kv range and an outrunner for more torque. Prop could then be a 40 or 45mm dia. and the required revs of around 12k. rpm can be achieved by selecting the appropriate size of battery.
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Ive a couple of 7.2v 1800mAh 6-cell Ni-MH batterys left from a car that i once owned.... any good?
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I think with a model that size, you'll need a fair bit more capacity than that that.
Even if you were to put them in series, [size=78%] [/size]you probably wouldn't have very long run times[/size][size=78%].[/size]
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Hi
As Will says (he posted whilst I was still composing!) no, not really. Voltage and capacity are too low.
I can't recommend what motor etc. I'm going to be using in my Huntsman 28 as I'm building at 1:12 and so it's 28" long as opposed to yours at 42" long which will be significantly heavier.
My thoughts in arriving at a suitable motor for your model are as follows. As said it's quite big and heavy and so a motor with some torque is required and as it's a sports cruiser a decent turn of speed is required but not manic like a race boat.
Outrunner brushless motors produce more torque than inrunners for a like for like size and larger diameter motors generally produce more torque so I'd be looking for an outrunner of about 40mm diameter.
As I said before, to give around 12k. rpm and good performance and using a motor in the 900 - 1200 kv range you will need a battery voltage of 12000rpm/960kv (as per suggestion) = 12.5volts. So if using LiPos you could use a 3S which will give you 11.1v or 4S giving 14.8v. I'd go for the 4S as you will have power in reserve then. For a decent run time you need to be looking at least 4000mAH and preferably higher if funds allow.
That's my thoughts but I know that Canabus and Zooma have fast boats that are bigger than mine and believe that they mainly use 35mm diameter brushless motors and so they may say that size is perfectly adequate as brushless motors are amazingly powerful for their size. They will also have thoughts on batteries.
A motor that suits my criteria is shown and is available from the Component Shop. Hope you find this of some use.
Chris
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Forgot to say that as well as the voltage being too low for the required performance it is determined by the motor. In the suggestion I've given you can see it is suitable for 3 - 5S, so 11.1 to 18.5v.
In theory you could use 7.4v but you would need to use a higher kV motor, but not too high! To achieve 12k. rpm you would need a minimum of 1621 kV but as motor diameters increase the kv tend to be less and you won't get a 40mm anywhere near that value. Smaller dia. motors are available in higher kV so others may say that a 35mm is the way to go but on a minimum of 3S/11.1v and you could use your new ESC.
As you can see it is all a bit of a balancing act with the voltage and kv to get the performance required. Very high kV motors like the ones you already have are for lighter race boats and water jet drives etc.
Chris
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i appreciate the advice from everyone but i must say my head is spinning lol, im off to a local model shop tomorrow as they sell batteries and chargers
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Yeah, like anything new it can be confusing at first.
Good thing with brushless is that they are powerful little blighters and many operate over a good range of voltages so it's usually fairly easy to obtain the performance required.
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silly quick question.... do i need to grease the propshaft? i only seem to find stuff about flexi shafts but im using a rigid one
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well ive had a go at the front railing, used 3mm brass rod and took on the idea (thanks to colin bishop) and used tube with eye screws to make the stanchions... and this is how it turned out
(https://i.postimg.cc/SQ1xkD7J/20211021-133128.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
as i live in a flat with no garden im going to use parents place to start stripping the old paint to get it ready for some colour, just as there out door space is the car park to their B&B i need to plan it for when they have no guests
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Well done, that's made a difference to the look of it already :-))
Have you decided upon a colour scheme yet, or are you gonna keep us in suspense? :-)
Will
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silly quick question.... do i need to grease the propshaft? i only seem to find stuff about flexi shafts but im using a rigid one
Yes. What to use? Found this on another forum...
https://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=107386 (https://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=107386)
If you type “grease” into search bar top right on this forum it may help with other threads. Some use lithium grease, others oil etc etc.
For example one view on here is as follows:
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,64836.msg688691.html#msg688691 (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,64836.msg688691.html#msg688691)
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well i'm a huge star wars fan, and a member of vader's 501st legion (UK Garrison) so going star wars themed... greys, whites and blacks, will have some old school pinstriping around the name for the back and sides and trying to find someone to print me a couple of flags for the rear with the galactic empire logo but proving difficult
but the problem at the moment is stripping the old paint, so far i've gone through 5-6 various coloured coats on the hull
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power question.... will a 70a esc be ok with a 1200kv brushless motor, using 4S lipo battery, ive tried the maths and think ive gone a little backwards somewhere
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well as the weather wasn't to bad today i managed to get on with stripping the boat back to wood, 40years of paint and varnish and about 8 different colour coats through time, sides are done and have the hull, need more nitro mors and more sanding discs but getting through it slowly
(https://i.postimg.cc/k4BGY9ST/20211104-215548.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
3 hours with a dremel i finally got rid of the glue and silicone that the original motor was set into, just need to finish flattening so i can marry uop the motor and prop shaft
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd8XnhGc/20211104-215624.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
and made some ali angle plate for the motor and anti vibration mounts
(https://i.postimg.cc/hvcwP40r/20211104-215704.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
if the weather keeps staying dry i'm back on it tomorrow
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well the poor weather meant i couldn't carry on stripping the boat i decided to get all artistic and prep some graphics
(https://i.postimg.cc/mr08JJmC/20211108-203605.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I hope it all works out, but................. Im with Chris F, the kv is way too high for this heavy old girl, you need the torque to get it rolling, lower revs, and lower kv I hope Im proved wrong, but I own the evidence., I was reluctant to spoil the party, but you still might be able to get a return if the motor is still unused. the prop ypu are thinking abolut will be too big, its the size I run with sub 1000kv, and I get about 15 mins max with throttle management
Those high kv motors suit the lightweight racing fibreglass style hulls, not the heavy thick wood things we own.
I run mine on 6 cells, gps is 25mph, after that, its extremely unstable on single screw, the build log was recently revived with some posts, take a look if its any good to you to help out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4OQbqIByw0