Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: zooma on February 06, 2022, 12:47:32 pm
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Anyone that has read the thread about our plans to build a couple of LesRo Stiletto models will no doubt have had a smile about the pair of Sea Commander cabin sides that we found in the "Stiletto parts".
As it happened, I bought a plan for the Sea Commander off of eBay when I first started back into model boat making just prior to lock-down, but forgot that kit plans do not give any drawings for the bulkheads - so I never did anything with them.
Now that we have a pair of cabin sides, it seems a shame to waste them, so I have dug the plans out and made templates for the keel, doublers and breasthook etc, but if anyone has access to the Sea Commander bulkhead shapes it would be very helpful if they could draw around them for us and it would save a lot of time.
Postage costs etc would be gladly refunded. :-))
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I cut a keel and the front three pairs of doublers from 4mm plywood today and I am just going back out to cut the rearmost pair of doublers from 1/2' x 1/2" hardwood, so I have made a start on the parts needed to support the pair of cabin sides that Will has given to me O0 {-)
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The keel and doublers are now glued together and I am working out the bulkhead templates and only need the shapes for bulkheads B3 and B5 to be able to complete the hull stage of this project.
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I too would like outlines of bulkheads etc..
Hope someone can help...
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I too would like outlines of bulkheads etc..
Hope someone can help...
Hopefully I wont need any templates as I think my "trail and error" bodging technique (and a bit of luck) may have solved the problem for me.
I had the remans of bulkheads B2 and B4, so I superimposed them on top of each other, worked out a centre line and then drew around them both on the back of a cereal packet.
Then I worked out the mid-points between the two and made this a possible outline for B3 after making a few small mods and measuring the cabin width at this point. Then I cut this out from 4mm ply to make a mock-up bulkhead.
To my surprise when I plugged this onto the keel and the cabin sides it looked OK, the deck-line flowed OK and the stringers look like they will align too.
I also had an old delaminated Sea Commander transom shape, so I tried the same technique to produce bulkhead B5 between B4 and the transom (B6) and it sort of worked - but needs some adjustment. I think the curved sides of the transom threw my measurements out a bit but the deck line still looked OK, so I modified the template using masking tape to hold the extra slice of cereal packet on, and just widened the top edge of the template at the deck edge out by 2mm each side.
Hopefully this will work, but without cutting the mock-ups out from plywood I cannot check this as the cabin sides are under some tension to form the shape and it is not possible to check the fit without inter-locking all of the bulkheads into place on the keel and the cabin sides - so the cereal packet templates need to be exchanged for wood at this stage!
I have some poor quality scrap ply from an old box, and this is plenty good enough for use at this stage, but when I think I have got everything looking OK, I will cut the new B3 and B5 bulkheads and replace the damaged and fuel soaked B2, B4 and the delaminated transom at the same time.
I could not do any of the above without first having the keel assembled as I needed it to plug the bulkhead shapes onto and then to check the interlink and width fit with the cabin sides.
Fortunately, the keel, cabin sides and breasthook information can be taken directly from the kit plans - and no doubt the bulkhead shapes could also be worked-out from the plan too with measurements and a bit of patience.......and they would no doubt be technically superior to my bodging! :embarrassed:
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Hello Zooma
I have a set of templates for a Sea commander, I've attached the file as a PDF
Hope they are some use to you
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Hello Zooma
I have a set of templates for a Sea commander, I've attached the file as a PDF
Hope they are some use to you
Thanks Leaky,
I have just come back in from the workshop(shed) - I think I have made my own versions now - but I will compare them with "the real thing" as I could be miles out! <:(
Stay safe,
Bob.
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PDFs were sent and received by Bob on Sunday 6th for all parts for Commander. It wasn't/hasn't been hacknolegged on this site and probably would have stopped someone else pr*****g about trying to be helpful. >>:-(
Regards Ian.
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PDFs were sent and received by Bob on Sunday 6th for all parts for Commander. It wasn't/hasn't been hacknolegged on this site and probably would have stopped someone else pr*****g about trying to be helpful. >>:-(
Regards Ian.
Hi Ian,
Due to family illness I have not been able to get out and find a local printer yet to have the downloads you so kindly sent printed out at full size, but I did take a note of the shapes as I worked out my own version so your downloads have been helpful.
It is genuinely interesting to see the small differences between the digital templates you sent and those from Leaky that were sent after I had already made my own missing bulkheads. Yours look to be draughtsman drawn and the ones from Leaky look like they may have been drawn around actual kit parts and so represent what the original kit buyer may have found inside the box.
When I have any drawing for a bulkhead I always make a centre line and then fold the pattern in half and note the differences between the left and right halves. I always assume that bulkhead templates should be symmetrical, so I always make my own working templates so that they are symmetrical and can be folded on there centre line to reveal no differences between the left and right halves.
This helps to prevent any error being magnified when the part is being cut and also helps to ensure that the hull can be build "square" without any inbuilt twist or distortion.
I mentioned that I already had a plan at the start of this thread - but the digital copy that you sent is nice to keep safely for future reference after I have finished this restoration project and passed the printed plan on to somebody else to make use of.
Many thanks to Circlip and Leaky for their time spent researching and emailing their template drawings to me. Both will be kept safe and both have already proved to be a valuable reference that I am grateful to keep safe for future use.
Stay safe :-))
Bob.
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Thanks for the template images...will have a go making one of them...don't know about electric propulsion but will look at thread for advise.
Thanks, much appreciated.
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An 11" M5 prop shaft has been fitted into the keel and once I have the bulkheads and cabin sides fitted I will secure this in position with an epoxy resin, but it looks to be just the right size - unlike the slot between the upper and lower rear halves of the keel that appear to have been drawn (and then cut by myself) to fit a thicker brass tube than the modelboatbits Maxi-Shaft that I am using, so a little filler will be needed here when the time comes! >:-o
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How Bob is restoring the Mary Rose.......or is it a Sea Commander?
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Thanks Tony for uploading these first Sea Commander pictures for me!
The top pictures shows my best guess at what bulkheads B3 and B5 would look like before I received the digital images from Circlip and Leaky, but I have been able since to compare them and they don look too different, and when pugged in to the keel slots with the other bulkhead it look like they will align with the others OK, but I guessed at the shape of the tops, so this may need a little attention at a later date.
The second picture shows the new bulkhead B1 that I made alongside the new breasthook, but since cutting these I have changed my mind about the shape of the breasthook because I don't see any advantage in wrapping both layers of stringers around such a tight curve when it can be so easily avoided, so I re-drew the breasthook with the same base measure where it joins the first bulkhead B1 but added the width of the two layers of stringer to the outside edge of the breasthook shape, but left a good generous length of recess for the stringers to sit into about an inch past B1.
LesRo used this technique on their Rapier - and that design hardly had any shape forming around the breasthook as the stringers meet in a point at the bows! A much better idea - but to be fair - the Sea Commander is a much older design and that was just the way it was done when this early Aerokits design was made.
The next 3 pictures just show the new keel and doublers that I cut after they had been fitted. This new wood should give the boat a decent backbone to work from, and the last picture shows my cereal packet template for the keel after I had drawn around it on some 4mm ply ready for cutting-out.
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Hi Ian, please what would be the multiplication factor to enlarge the images from A4, which is the only size I can print the images on the sheet, to proper size please.
An ask I know but would save so much time an printer ink in the summer.
Thanks.
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Hi Ian, please what would be the multiplication factor to enlarge the images from A4, which is the only size I can print the images on the sheet, to proper size please.
An ask I know but would save so much time an printer ink in the summer.
Thanks.
Hi Rich,
I asked Circlip (Ian) a similar question (by email) and he advised me that the download would come out at full size so I could take it on a USB stick to a printer who would then be able to print it out at full size.
Hope this helps,
Bob.
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Cool, thanks.
The search continues for a company able to print out in full size locally.
I could scan, Photoshop and play untill a long dimension tallies, then print off at A4 at home.
£26 for an ink cartridge, non refillable due to it being " chipped" , robbing so and SO's.
Mamon rules.
I could always do it the old fashioned way, pre computers.
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Cool, thanks.
The search continues for a company able to print out in full size locally.
I could scan, Photoshop and play untill a long dimension tallies, then print off at A4 at home.
£26 for an ink cartridge, non refillable due to it being " chipped" , robbing so and SO's.
Mamon rules.
I could always do it the old fashioned way, pre computers.
I think I may have found a local printer so I will find out if he can print from a USB stick.
As I have never done this before, it will be interesting and probably of more use to me in the future for other new projects as I have been using my usual "bodging" methods to reconstruct this Sea Commander so far and I have probably gone too far to revert back to doing it "properly" this time. :embarrassed:
A new build in the future using downloaded and printed templates will be quite a change for me. :-))
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As Bob stated, the PDFs I supplied are all full size so will print out as such but won't allow for the limitations of the printer. ALL printers have fractional printout size differences as demonstrated many years ago when being introduced to the black arts of drawing with AutoCad. Thanks to todays printing technology, we don't have the mass variation of 'Wet' copies although water content of paper can introduce differences. Although 'Tiling' is fine for smaller details, I would advocate, as I did with Bob, bung the PDFs on a stick and take to a commercial printer and ask for 100% printout. For commercial printer, I don't mean Staples etc. but find one who do prints for Architects and Engineers and know how to do it properly. Last time I checked, I was quoted £5 for an A0 sizes sheet which is far cheaper than a model plan supplier who charge more than double for an A3.
Just to elucidate the laminated top stringer saga, back in the day of original boat kits, the woods of choice were far less in selection than now. Starting at the notched breasthook, the first strip of 1/4 X 1/8 Obeche could be glued and pinned and a smooth curve obtained for the deck line. when that had dried, a second piece if the same, glued and pinned to the same, far easier than trying to fanny about with 1/4 square breaking many in the process. Remember, glues of choice were 'Cascomite' and 'Araldite' and allowed relaxation and think time rather than instant gratification.
Regards Ian.
PS., If you want to have a copy of a full size plan in your possession, I would suggest the same route i.e. let someone with a full size scanner copy it. Just spent many frustrating hours piecing tiles back together from scans done by me on an A4 scanner. Even done at one session, the individual scans have minor variations when it comes to glueing them back together electronically.
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Hi Zooma and Circlip
I save all my plans as Pdf (full size) and my local printer can scan and print what size I require.
Only a 6 KM round trip and I take my latest finished project to show them.
Cost under $10au for a scan and print !!!
Canabus
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Just to elucidate the laminated top stringer saga, back in the day of original boat kits, the woods of choice were far less in selection than now. Starting at the notched breasthook, the first strip of 1/4 X 1/8 Obeche could be glued and pinned and a smooth curve obtained for the deck line. when that had dried, a second piece if the same, glued and pinned to the same, far easier than trying to fanny about with 1/4 square breaking many in the process. Remember, glues of choice were 'Cascomite' and 'Araldite' and allowed relaxation and think time rather than instant gratification.
Regards Ian.
Remember Aerolite 306 Ian ?
Another classic two part glue of the time - reported to have been used to hold the Mosquito twin engined fighter/bombers wooden construction together - and used by myself on my first ever r/c model boat, an Aerokits Swordsman........until I ran out and switched to the less expensive water mixed Cascomite to finish the build with.
Yes 24 hour Araldite was THE epoxy to use for things like holding the engine mounts to the hull (and still is as far as I am concerned), and there was also a "thing" in the 1960's when we were racing the boats off-shore for mixing two part expanding foam and pouring it into the voids in the bow of the boat to give buoyancy, additional strength and crash resistance too!
This early version of two part expanding buoyancy foam came in two bottles and was mixed in a beaker until it began to fizz and was then poured into the voids where it expanded to fill every part of it.
Any over-filling would be rewarded with the decks and the hull skins being blown off as the foam expanded to a greater volume than the hull voids could hold, so we soon learnt how much to mix and to add some vent holes for any excess foam to escape through.
I have not seen that type of marine buoyancy foam for years - but it was certainly a lot better than the aerosol type we buy now from builders merchants for the job that we used it for - and if I could find a source of supply. I would probably use it now as it added a lot to the structural integrity of the boat.
As a matter of interest, I still use two laminates of 1/8" x 1/4" for all my stringers (the metric equivalent). Old habits die hard - but I much prefer to build this way and the laminates are stronger then using a single square profile stringer :-))
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Old ones, new ones, loved ones and neglected ones ;)
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I will try to use as many "original" Sea Commander parts as I can, but the the two front keel doublers K3 are a bit knackered and are easy to make again so these will not be used - but the front deck former DF1 looks OK so that has been pressed into use and super-glued to the breasthook - my first re-cycled part!
The new transom part has been temporarily tacked into position so I can check the alignment of all the parts as I have found that the old bulkheads are a long way away from being symmetrical, so I have re-cut the ones that I have after I have made a symmetrical pattern template to cut them from.
The bottom picture shows the neglected Wave Rider "orange box" stand just before it was given its first coat of colour.
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Good work Bob.
Glad that you've been able to make use of some of the bits.
At this rate, you'll soon have a completed Sea Commander
Will
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Last night I positioned the bulkheads in place on the new keel and offered the old Sea Commander cab sides up to them.
The two structures do fit each other (sort-of), but the mix of a new keel cut from a copy plan, some bulkheads copied from old damaged originals (plus B3 and B5 that I made from what I thought they should look like) and a pair of old warped and twisted cabin sides have not come together without some small problems to resolve. :embarrassed:
Today I will epoxy the 11" M5 prop shaft in place and glue everything together and check that it is as "square" as I can make it.
The inner deck stringers are nice and straight (when a steel straight edge is laid on them) from the keel to the mid cab window position when they start to fall downwards towards the bows, and this is as shown on my copy plans - so with that working-out OK I am thinking that the structure can be fixed as it is and when the glue is dry I can make the many small adjustments and corrections that it needs until I am happy to add the outer deck (gunwale) stringers and chine stringers.
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Ofishul Bobb Pichur :-))
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Looks good, she'll be on the water in no time Bob.
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I don't have any building instructions for the Sea Commander, and I have never owned one (or seen another one being constructed), but from what I can see from looking at the plans, the chine stringers meet at a point on the bows with no internal support (like a second breasthook) underneath them.
Maybe adding a pair of secondary "breasthook" halves on either side of the keel to sit on top of the front doubler K3 (and under doubler K2) would be a good idea?
This would give some support underneath the chine stringers at this point and make for a stronger bows too.
If anyone who has built a Sea Commander has any thoughts on this area of the hull I would be very pleased to know how they got on with forming the chine stringers where they meet the keel at the bows.
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Hi Zooma
I did the second breasthook on my Sea Hornet, but that had balsa block lower section.
I would put the chine stringers in and add more wood to the keel above and below.
This will give you more glue area for the plywood skins.
I did this on my Swordsman and added fiberglass as well to add more strength and waterproofing.
Harry
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All the Rowel hulls utilise the same construction, chamfered face of F2 aligns with outer face of chine stringer as shown on sketch 2. Stiletto is same.
Regards Ian.
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I don't have any building instructions for the Sea Commander, and I have never owned one (or seen another one being constructed), but from what I can see from looking at the plans, the chine stringers meet at a point on the bows with no internal support (like a second breasthook) underneath them.
Maybe adding a pair of secondary "breasthook" halves on either side of the keel to sit on top of the front doubler K3 (and under doubler K2) would be a good idea?
This would give some support underneath the chine stringers at this point and make for a stronger bows too.
If anyone who has built a Sea Commander has any thoughts on this area of the hull I would be very pleased to know how they got on with forming the chine stringers where they meet the keel at the bows.
What about the build instructions that I sent you with the plan and templates Bob, do they not describe build order?
Will
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What about the build instructions that I sent you with the plan and templates Bob, do they not describe build order?
Will
I have read and printed the basic build instructions that were sent to me. They mimic the standard assembly sequence for Aerokits models in general.
I am using my own plan that I bought from eBay before the lock-downs started.
The bulkheads I have used have not been cut from any drawings - I am yet to get a set printed. If I like the finished model and decide to build another one (properly) I will get the ones that I have been sent printed at full size to use for my cutting templates.
The "instructions" build sequence is fairly obvious and is general enough to apply to almost any Aerokits/LesRo kit, and it is the same general sequence that I have used on this model as it is a fairly obvious way to work - as can be seen from the pictures shown on this thread.
In this basic assembly sequence there is no mention of the chine stringers at the point where they join the keel at the bows. The only mention of either stringer set is that they are formed from two laminated layers of 1/8" x 1/4" - a method I have alway used on any models I build. The plan shows the chine stringers meeting the bow end of the keel with no support or under-former.
This seemed like a fairly weak area to me so I was asking if anyone who had personally built a Sea Commander had used the method as shown on the plan (but not refered to in the build instructions) or had chosen to reinforce it as I have now done.
I have chosen to reinforce this area on my Sea Commander build with a pair of sub-breasthooks to align with, and sit under the chine stringers between the first bulkhead B1 and the bow end of the keel. This looks and feels really solid and is the same method I used on the Aerokits Swordsman kits that I have previously built. This will also give a bigger area of wood for the skins to bond onto.
Harrys contribution to this thread earlier this morning suggested adding more wood in this area for the same reasons, so we are on the same wave length :-))
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Wonder how the hundreds of builders managed without the advantage (?) of t'internet? O0
Regards Ian.
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Wonder how the hundreds of builders managed without the advantage (?) of t'internet? O0
Regards Ian.
A very good point Ian.
Trying to salvage or refer to parts that have seen better days from a broken model can sometimes be worthwhile, but when they are incomplete, some are missing and others are delaminating and twisted it may not turn out to be the best idea - but it would have been a lot more tempting prior to the internet when such a good resource of information was not so readily available.
I am sure that if I had the chance to get the plan templates that I have been so kindly sent printed at full size, my build/restoration (not really sure what this project has turned out to be) would have been a lot less time consuming.
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Hot foot from Bob!
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Hi Bob
I would guess taking the forward cabin roof right back to the bottom of the windscreen for a cleaner look.
Harry
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Hi Bob
I would guess taking the forward cabin roof right back to the bottom of the windscreen for a cleaner look.
Harry
Good idea - I was thinking the same Harry.
Once the front windscreen is beveled and fitted I think the front roof should be fitted right up to the base of the window frames - but I have some way to go before I get to that stage.
At the moment I am checking the flow of the chine and gunwale stringers to make sure they measure right and look right!
I always spend some time at this stage (even when kit building) to check measurements against the plans at dozens of different reference points before finalising the stringers position as they affect the deck line as well as the hull skins.
The inclusion of two of my own bulkhead shapes makes it even more important to take some time to check everything fits the plans on this model.
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HI Zooma
My Lord, ewe have built a kit boat, I have never built a kit boat from the start !!!!
I have finished building a kit boat !!
I would have to say the Wavemaster was the hardest boat I ever built !!
Canabus
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HI Zooma
My Lord, you have built a kit boat, I have never built a kit boat from the start !!!!
I have finished building a kit boat !!
I would have to say the Wavemaster was the hardest boat I ever built !!
Canabus
Really??? - Why?
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Hi Martin
What are posting about ??
The Wavemaster or the Sea Commander ???
Canabus
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Fixing the front cabin roof will be left until (almost) last.
Once this non-removable roof is fixed there will be no way into this sealed compartment, so I want to take the time to epoxy coat everything inside (and probably paint it) before fixing the roof.
I have cut an access into bulkhead B2 to ease this situation slightly for any future needs (the original old B2 bulkhead I copied was solid), but I have also had to brace across the top of B2 as the cabin sides are warped and I need this brace to push them back out as an aid to straightening them.
The cabin sides have been clamped to straight wood blocks for several days - and this has helped quite a bit, and I have cut short square blocks that will fit in-between the bulkheads and I am continuing to leave them clamped to the exposed cabin sides overnight until they stay straight, and when they do straighten I will use some very thin self-wicking super glue to creep in-between the delaminated sides and help to maintain the correct re-instated shape.
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Hi Zooma
The one I had had the motor in the forward cabin section.
It may limit you for battery placement for the boat balance???
Canabus
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Hot foot from Bob!
Thanks Tony.
The top picture shows the two half breasthooks that I have introduced to strengthen the joint between the chine stringers and the keel at the bows with an overly generous amount of PVA ( before I wiped the excess off! %) ). The modified breasthook shape can also be seen above them.
The second picture shows the new rear cabin wall and the rear deck combings ready to support the central rear deck skins. I needed to get this fitted and firmly clamped together to help straighten the warped and delaminating cabin sides.
The third picture shows the new bulkheads B4 and the "guessed at" shape of bulkhead B5 and shows the loose-fit cabin floor. I cut the cabin floor and used it as a fitting template as I clamped the bulkheads into place to ensure they were parallel to each other at all heights.
Picture four shows the area that I cut away from bulkhead B2 to improve access after the front cabin roof is fitted, but also shows the brace that I had to add over the top of it to help straighten the twisted and delaminated front cabin sides. The picture also shows the windscreen shape that I had taken from the plans and drawn onto a scrap piece of 4mm ply ready for cutting out.
The fifth picture shows the windscreen shapes cut out and ready for profiling the joints prior to fitting, and also shows the lower windscreen former fitted and ready to accept the frames. Lots of clamps used to try to straighten the cabin sides and to keep the new top cabin side brace aligned over B2 until it had dried.
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Hi Zooma
The one I had had the motor in the forward cabin section.
It may limit you for battery placement for the boat balance???
Canabus
I have shortened the M5 prop shaft length down to 11" to allow space to fit an alloy water-cooled mount for the out-runner motor with a PowerFlex coupling fitted, and it looks like the assembly will fit comfortably inside the engine bay - but I have opened-out the front bulkhead B2 in any case so I have gained a little "elbow room" if I need it :-))
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HI Zooma
My Lord, ewe have built a kit boat, I have never built a kit boat from the start !!!!
I have finished building a kit boat !!
I would have to say the Wavemaster was the hardest boat I ever built !!
Canabus
Yes Harry - my first ever r/c powerboat was an Aerokits Swordsman that I built from a kit. I had to save up for weeks before I could to buy this from my meagre apprenticeship wages in the 1960's.
I couldn't afford to buy another kit for several years after that, so I built from the free plans that used to be given away in the Christmas issues of Model Maker - including the Vic Smeed Remora and Suzy Q.
Later (1971) I bought an Aerokits Patrol Launch kit.
In more recent years I have bought an Aerokits Sea Urchin kit (I always like the shape of this little model) and a LesRo Arrow kit (not started yet), but I have also bought another Aerokits Swordsman kit that I am building alongside my scratch built Swordsman, and I have bought a LesRo Rapier kit and a LesRo Streaker (Javelin) kit and I have not started work on either of these yet.
My other recent kit purchase was an original HMM Wavemaster 34 kit that had been stored in a damp loft for many years! I had to remake every part from new plywood - but I would still claim this as building a kit as I followed the plan and building instructions and made the jig to align the keel and bulkhead etc - a "proper" kit!
The original Wavemaster 34 wood has been kept pressed under a weight for months and will hopefully be flat enough to return to the box soon so it is a new and un-started kit with flat wooden parts that can be used to build a boat with! :-))
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Fixing the front cabin roof will be left until (almost) last.
Once this non-removable roof is fixed there will be no way into this sealed compartment, so I want to take the time to epoxy coat everything inside (and probably paint it) before fixing the roof.
Bob, on the better of my Sea Commander, the Forward cabin roof is removable.
There's a hook in piece on the front edge of it to locate the front end of the roof and I will use magnets to hold the back end down.
I presumed that this is how it's supposed to be.
The other Commander I have is a real lash up and has been altered from standard and very badly too. It's a real dog.
I can take pictures of that fore cabin roof if you wanted to see.
Will
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Bob, on the better of my Sea Commander, the Forward cabin roof is removable.
There's a hook in piece on the front edge of it to locate the front end of the roof and I will use magnets to hold the back end down.
I presumed that this is how it's supposed to be.
The other Commander I have is a real lash up and has been altered from standard and very badly too. It's a real dog.
I can take pictures of that fore cabin roof if you wanted to see.
Will
Thanks Will,
Every front cabin roof on Sea Commanders (and Queens) that I have seen over the years is glued down onto the fore-deck, just leaving the centre cabin and the rear cabin with a lift-off roof to provide access.
Being able to lift off all three cabin tops would give much improved access to the hull and does sound interesting.
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Bob, here's a few pictures of my fore cabin roof and how it fits on.
Will
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Hold on, I'll try again
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2nd go.
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Thanks for the pictures Will - that does give me "some food for thought" :-))
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No problem Bob, it's another option for you.
Will
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More places for Bob to put glue ;)
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I am pleased with the way the modified breast hook has worked.
It made fitting the gunwale stringers a very simple job by removing the area that needed the most bending.
I am fitting the chine stringers next to the two sub-breasthooks that I have added as I think that will be just as easy and they will stronger than joining the two chine stringers together in an unsupported joint either side of the keel at the bows as shown on the plan drawings.
Both breasthooks should give plenty of bonding areas to glue the skins onto, but I will check this at the time and add doublers if I think they would be any advantage.
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The storm yesterday made it necessary to stand in my small shed (workshop) to add some extra weight to help prevent it being blown away! %)
Whilst stood there preventing the shed disappearing in the wind, I just happened to fit the two laminates of chine stringers, but I had to wait for the first row to dry before fitting the second layer, so I knocked-up another "orange box" stand ready to hold the Sea Comm ready for when the bottom skins are fitted and I am able to turn the boat over to fit the power train etc.
The two additional small "sub-breasthooks" worked very well and they have made a much stronger joint than the method shown on the plan of simply joining the chine stringers in a point directly onto the side of the fore-keel. I am pleased with them and the way they have worked so it is a method that I would like to use in any future "new builds" to simplify the construction and to strengthen the bows.
I should be able to remove the clamps from the chine stingers later today and start checking everything over and preparing the hull to accept the bottom skins.
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As described.
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Tony now calls me Jed Clampit - possibly due to the number of clamps I have used on each side (32) to hold the two laminates of the chine stringers together until they dry :embarrassed: ......or maybe for some other reason associated with the Beverly Hillbillies?
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Looks really good Bob and unmistakeably a Sea Commander.
I spy some supposed Stiletto cabin sides.
I really don't know how I didn't recognise them as being Sea Commander cabin sides when I looked at them in the box. I certainly can't not see Sea Commander when I look at the parts pictures that I sent you previously.
Keep up the good work Bob
Will
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Looks really good Bob and unmistakeably a Sea Commander.
I spy some supposed Stiletto cabin sides.
I really don't know how I didn't recognise them as being Sea Commander cabin sides when I looked at them in the box. I certainly can't not see Sea Commander when I look at the parts pictures that I sent you previously.
Keep up the good work Bob
Will
I think it was just a trick just to get me back out into my shed and ready to cut some Stiletto parts for you! O0
It was a good one though as I have never owned a Sea Commander, and probably never would have done without you sending me these "Stiletto" parts to reclaim.....and your kind offer to let me keep them :-))
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Templates for the bottom skins were made from some old cereal box's, and masking tape was used to stick the pieces together as they were not long enough to make the template in one piece.
After checking the fit (and allowing a little extra for the thickness of the 1.5mm ply that I would be using for the skins) I drew around the template directly onto the wood and used a Tamiya razor saw to cut them out.
I am always surprised at just how much the Tamiya razor saw blade can flex to the curvature of the cut that allows the blade to remain firmly embedded in the wood to complete the cut. Very impressive flexible Japanese steel blades.
Both skins have now been fitted to the hull and when the glue has fully dried I will be able to trim them back to their final shape and then align the motor/coupling/propshaft assembly before fitting the side skins.
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Before covering the lower hull with the bottom skins I did fill the lower section of the bows with some scrap balsa wood and then sanded it to shape to give a stronger lower bow and an increased bonding area for the adhesive to secure the lower skins to.
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More power to Bob's Commander!
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Sometime last year Bangood had a good offer on the Surpass motor prices, and following a recommendation about them from Harry, I bought one to try as an alternative to my usual out-runners.
I also bought a non water-cooled 120A ESC to try as an alternative to my usual water-cooled ESC as well as a water-cooled sleeve to fit the motor (also on offer at the time!).
This particular motor is the 3674-1580KV and the "O" rings at each end of the water cooling sleeve were lightly wiped with silicone grease before being slid into place around the motor.
This assembly was then fitted onto an inexpensive alloy water cooled mount so I can use it to cool the front motor bearings if they should run hot. This mount also makes it easy to change motors in the future, so if this in-runner does not perform as well as it should, I can quickly replace it with an out-runner within a few minutes.
A plywood motor platform was made to support the motor at the right height and angle while being held rigidly in place by a home made solid coupling that is the same length as the 5mm x 5mm PowerFlex coupling that will eventually replace it.
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That motor looks right at home sat in there Bob. A tidy instal, as always.
Looking forward to seeing how well that motor makes the SC perform.
Will
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Thanks Will,
The hull was turned upside-down again tonight and I cut away the upper support for the prop shaft. {:-{
The modern prop shafts have a slimmer outer tube than some of the older 2BA type shafts that would have been common when these plans were drawn up, and so I had a slight gap along one edge of the tube.
P38 filler would have made light work of this small gap, but I used the razor saw to chop it out and change it for a tight fitting replacement and took the opportunity to slightly flare the blend back into the keel again to make a more pleasing look (to me at least).
When the masking tape (that is holding it for the 24hr Araldite set) is removed, I will take another look at it. I have plenty of sandpaper if it doesn't look 'right".
A couple of off-cut strakes were laid long the bottom - just to see what it could look like - but I am not sure that the Sea Commander hull really needs to have any strakes fitted.........but they could look good................. %)
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Well done Bob. I have all of these things to experience and overcome yet.
Maybe looking at some Sea Commander videos will give you an idea if in your opinion it needs strakes or not by how well other peoples perform and climb up onto the plane.
Alternatively, maybe two each side would suit it :}
Keep up the good work.
Will
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My Sea Commander went through numerous alterations and I.C. motors but did not need strakes to get on plane although perhaps not as smooth spray as might have been.
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Hi All
A new SLEC Sea Commander without spray rails by one of our club members C3542-1250kv brushless.
Harry
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Thanks for the pictures of the Sea Commander at speed.
Very inspiring - I may not be adding strakes to this hull after all.
I had heard that the Sea Commander could produce a sprightly performance, and your pictures tend to confirm this.
Mine has a little way to go just yet............................ :embarrassed:
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Last night I fitted the rudder and water scoop and then took a look inside to see where I should put the ESC and LiPo packs etc.
The ESC is not very heavy so I have made a small platform in the front cabin for it to sit on, but I am not sure yet where to put the LiPo cells as they are comparatively heavy and will affect the balance of the boat.
My first thought was to put then under the floor in the open cockpit area, but when I laid them in there and picked the part-built hull up the balance was towards the rear of the boat.
When I placed one LiPo pack on each side of the motor the balance was quite neutral so I am guessing that would be a better location for them?
I would like to see where others have positioned the batteries in their Sea Commanders - especially the two fast ones that have been pictured on here, or any others that perform well as I have no centre of gravity reference shown on the plans.
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Hi Zooma
I had my 3700mah 3S Lipo in front of the 35mm 1100kv motor.
At slow speed it had the bow down, but this pickup with a bit of power.
Sat on the water at speed very well.
From what I was told on Saturday, it's in a bit of a state with the now owner !!!
May see what I can trade to get it back ??
Like I require another project, like a hole in the head !!!!
Harry
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I think I may try mounting a pair of 3 cell LiPos (on their sides) - one on either side of the motor :-))
I will probably only run one at a time, but always carry them in pairs to give equal weight distribution from left right, but I could join them with a Y lead to double the duration if required.
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looking good Bob! motor looks mighty!
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Thanks Stuw,
Deciding where to put the LiPo cells, make suitable provision to hold them securely, checking the location and best position for the ESC and making or adapting all the necessary plugs and leads to fit and finding the best place to put the receiver etc always seems to take longer than it should - but it is helpful to get all this done before the side skins are fitted.
Making holes in bulkheads as required for the water cooling tube and any wires that need to pass through from one compartment to another is always easier at this stage and makes a nice change from finding the least awkward way to do it when the hull is finished.
Most of the above has been done, so now I need to find and fit a suitable steering servo and make a mount to fit it, make a linkage and order a suitable extension lead to connect it to the receiver.
When all that has been completed - I can cut a pair of side skins and get them fitted next. :-))
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Steering etc. from Bob
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what a genius idea of magnetizing the necessary allen keys in place- I'll have to copy that!
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Hi All
I would suggest on the rudder linkage, turn the linkage at the rudder end up the other way.
The collar with grub screw will end up facing into the middle of the boat.
A lot easier to get the allen key onto !!!
Canabus
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what a genius idea of magnetizing the necessary allen keys in place- I'll have to copy that!
I first used this idea on my Rapier (https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,64555.0.htmland) and it has been very helpful over the last couple of years as it has allowed me to change the motor for a different type when away from home at the water side, and it makes any adjustments to the rudder linkage etc without having to take any tools with me.
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Hi All
I would suggest on the rudder linkage, turn the linkage at the rudder end up the other way.
The collar with grub screw will end up facing into the middle of the boat.
A lot easier to get the allen key onto !!!
Canabus
I have been playing with r/c since the galloping ghost days and have seen many linkages drop (not on my own models fortunately) when the collet had been fitted to the top side - leaving the linkage to drop out if the collar should come loose or become dislodged for any reason......(this was also quite important on control line elevator linkages too!).
Fitting the linkage this way up gives some additional security in the (unlikely) event of a collet working loose when the model is out on the water, as the long end stands a fair chance of staying engaged with the tiller arm until the boat returns to shore.
Everything pictured is "loose fit" and only positioned to check the fit and function, but when the servo and rudder etc is returned to the hull to be permanently fixed I will turn the collet grub screw position to give the easiest access possible for the Allen key as the space available in this area when the side skins and decks are fitted will make this an awkward space to access.
I also considered fitting the tiller arm at 90 degrees to give a side to side servo operation, and if I have any problems in the future I may reposition the steering servo mounts to allow this alternative option. :-))
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Could have saved the collet with a tried and trusted 'Z' bend (underhung) at the rudder arm end?
Reverting to the necessity or not of strakes for the Commander or Queen, seem to remember on a whiskered episode of Termmorrers World the reasoning of them on the deep V racing hulls (Full size). Chine rails fine, but to generate lift under a flattie type hull? Which Kite flys easier? a flat one or a 'Deep V'?
Regards Ian.
Mod. Seems to be a plethora on the hulls in Martin's old mag posting.
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Could have saved the collet with a tried and trusted 'Z' bend (underhung) at the rudder arm end?
Reverting to the necessity or not of strakes for the Commander or Queen, seem to remember on a whiskered episode of Termmorrers World the reasoning of them on the deep V racing hulls (Full size). Chine rails fine, but to generate lift under a flattie type hull? Which Kite flys easier? a flat one or a 'Deep V'?
Regards Ian.
Yup - I remember spending many hours of my childhood trying to make a "Z" bend in a lengths of seemingly very hard piano wire (using a pair of my dad's oversized pliers) for use as a control rod (usually for a control line trainer or 1/2 A Team racer), and they always worked well enough.
Back then, I often thought that I would save-up enough pocket money to buy a pair of those special "Z" bending tools, but something more important always cropped up to relieve of my meagre funds, so I never did buy one. {:-{
......and now I don't have too because the weight of a brass collet is insignificant in my model boats and is far easier to fit and remove and I think it looks better than a "Z" bend and can never "jump" the plastic tiller - even on a fast boat with powerful steering servos.
Regarding the use of strakes on this Sea Commander hull- from what I have seen the Sea Commander seems to perform well enough when fitted with chine rails, so adding strakes may only be cosmetic, but they do look pretty and I doubt they would cause any harm - but I am not sure if I will fit them or not.
Unlike chine rails that I consider to be essential, and I will fit a pair of 1/8" x 1/4" obechie strips for this task and a similar pair of strips for the gunwale rails to help keep the deck dryer.
In everyday use, both of these rails also provide a degree of protection from accidental collision and can be easily replaced if they should become damaged.
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but they do look pretty
Bet the water under the hull thinks so. {-)
Regards Ian.
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but they do look pretty
Bet the water under the hull thinks so. {-)
Regards Ian.
Hi Ian,
Unfortunately most model boats spend far more time OUT of the water than they do displaying their "under-water finery" to the water that they are passing over when they do go "out to play".
If during any of their rare excursions the strakes and chine rails help the model to perform better than it would without them, then it is worth the effort to make them and fit them.
Meanwhile, when the boat is out of the water (probably in excess of 99% of its life) if the addition of strakes gives a more pleasing appearance to its owner and anyone else that views it then some may consider it worth having them fitted rather than not having them fitted.
Whilst I don't either exhibit my boats or store them inverted!, I do like to see strakes on deep vee hulls as I think they improve the appearance considerably and help with the performance of the model too.
I am not so sure about the merits of fitting strakes to my Sea Commander, but I have plenty of workshop time with this hull to go yet, and I am sure that I will look at the option of fitting them if think they could look good or aid the performance in any way.......so there is a possibility that I will fit strakes (or part length strakes) - but I am not as committed to them as I was with my Rapier, Swordsman, or Javelin hulls.
Stay safe,
Bob.
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what a genius idea of magnetizing the necessary allen keys in place- I'll have to copy that!
Thanks NickeklBelter,
I have used this idea for several years now on lots of different models and it works well enough to have never displaced an Allen key ......yet.
Carrying these keys onboard allows me to loosen the coupling and try different brushless motors without having to carry a toolbox to the lake as these are the only tools needed to remove and replace the motors.
This has been very handy on Rapier1 as I have used the boat as a testbed to try different motors in since it first took to the water.
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I have revisited this thread and the most recent photos and must agree it’s a very tidy installation. :-))
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I have revisited this thread and the most recent photos and must agree it’s a very tidy installation. :-))
Thanks Stuw,
I have had a long break from my workshop (shed) but hope to find the way in again shortly and get this hull finished and in the water later this year.
The bottom skins were fitted months ago and I remember making a template for the side skins from some trusty cerial packets so I need to get enthused - and cut some wood!
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We are ready to see the fruits of your labour! Get cutting soon :-))
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Hi LadsMy Sea Commander(Sparky) has returned, but, not in the best of health !!!The motor, rudder, servo with linkages and drive line all in good working order.The boat requires a full restoration .Started with removing all paint and repairing around the prop tube.The chine rails did not go right to the bow which I have address.The cabin has had the windows removed and repairs mainly to the forward area of the cabin.Canabus
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Brilliant for taking on a basket case as we say I(well they do say in the uk....French now you know) keep up the good work :-))
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Hi PhilThis is what the boat look like when I traded it for A Hellen Fishing Boat in 2018.Canabus
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Blimey, it did have a hard few years Harry! Will be better than ever once you've finished with it.
Chris
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I might use some of the flour and water mix that I was going to use on my new Club 500 kit to hold the side skins onto my Sea Commander rebuild once I get around to cutting them {-)
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Hi PhilThis is what the boat look like when I traded it for A Hellen Fishing Boat in 2018.Canabus
Did you make the front cabin roof removable Harry?
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Due to the wet weather we have returned home for a couple of days and I have been able to get out into the workshop (shed) to cut and fix some more parts onto the Sea Commander.
The twin flatscreen type windscreens and its hard wood mounting brace have been fitted along with the interlinking thick central former for the fixed forward cabin. The central former for the front cabin was another used Sea Queen part that Will sent to me, so in the spirit of using any original parts (like Trigger's "original brush in Fools and Horses) this was fitted rather than cutting a new part!
I checked my cereal packet side skin template by fitting it with masking tape onto the hull, and then reversing it and checking the fit on the other side of the hull.
Happy that the fit would be OK and that the hull is still symmetrical, I cut a pair of side skins and fitted them both.
When the glue has dried I hope to be able to get these skins trimmed before we go back to enjoy the next wave of good weather and leave the Sea Commander to "rest" for a while longer until we come home again! :-))
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HI AllSparkie back and in the best of hHI AllSparkie back and in the best of health!!!Still got a good turn of speed.Harryealth!!!Still got a good turn of speed.Harry
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Looking good Harry - nice restoration!
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Quite a transformation Harry, well done :-))
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During a brief home visit I managed to add a couple more pieces of wood to Will's donated Sea Commander cabin sides ;)
The bottom and side skins are now fitted and trimmed and I need to get the stand painted so I can secure the padding permanently to it as it will be helpful when working on the boat in the near future - especially when considering fitting some strakes .................. %)
I think this Sea Commander is getting even more than a bit like "Triggers Original Brush" (Fools and Horses) - still the original cabin sides - but almost everything else is new ..........but it is still an original Sea Commander............. ;D
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My standard (lack of imagination - but highly practical) simple "orange box" stand has now been painted and given a set of 4 rubber feet and had some padding glued on (cut pipe insulation) to stand the Sea Commander on.
Once I had inverted the hull (on its new cushioned bed) and fitted the lower spray rails I found myself sifting through some "spare" lengths of wood that I had previously cut into triangular sections for use as "strakes" on some of my other restoration and build projects and before I knew it - I had glued some onto this Sea Commander hull! :o
I am not sure if I like them that much now that they are fitted and I have never seen a Sea Commander fitted with strakes before, but it would take a lot of time to remove them again, so they have been given a coat of pink undercoat to highlight any small defects that may need "final sanding and prep" before applying a red gloss oil based top coat.
Once the gloss paint coat has been applied and dried I can turn the boat the right way up again on its stand knowing that the underside will be more of less finished so I won't need to spend too much time inverting the finished boat to paint the underside - other than to apply maybe one final gloss coat of paint when the rest of the final finishing is being completed.
Painting is not my strongest point (and I don't have any really strong points in any case :embarrassed: ) so I think it will take me a few days to get this next stage completed as I really don't like the new types of "quick dry" and "easy clean-up" paints as they just arn't good enough for use in water and I do like to build and restore my classic model boats with brush applied paint in the traditional way - and not just hit the rattle can........although I have to admit that would be MUCH faster and probably give a better result too <:(
Whilst I am trudging through this next stage, I can look forward to getting the inside of the hull armoured-up and painted before fitting the decks and moving-on with the construction :-))
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Did you make the front cabin roof removable Harry?
It looks like you have made the whole superstructure lift off in one piece ?
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The pink undercoat dried OK and a first coat of red gloss paint has now been applied to the underside of the hull and this does show the strakes off quite well.
I managed to get two complete "bow to stern" strakes on each side and an additional part length 3rd strake (from the bow to about 3/4 the length of the hull) to end where the hull width narrows.
Now I can flip the hull over and start working some glass fibre matting into the inside of the hull - especially around the engine mounting platform to reinforce it.
Once this is completed I can make some templates for the decking parts and get them (and the deck spray rails) fitted.
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I have cut and fitted all of the deckings and the classic sloping front cabin cover, but I fancied being able to remove a section of this front cabin (it is normally fixed), so I took the razor saw to it and chopped a section out of it and made some 'shelf edges" for the cut-out section to sit on - without it the removed roof section would just fall through! <:(
My obsession with being able to gain access to all the inside areas of the hull saw me reaching for the razor saw (as I do!!) and chopping out a nice shaped hatch with a front shape that will align with the funny little “wave breaker” that is a very recognisable part of this classic Aerokits design.
Unfortunately after I had cut the section out - it wouldn’t move !!
I had forgotten about my “belts and braces” fitting of the shaped former that sits underneath this roof section -another slight cock-up as I had "boxed myself out”.
My solution was to make yet another cut in the cab roof in line with the centre line to make one half of this roof section left out freely - and it did!
This gave me access to get the razor saw into the open area and to cut the top off of the roof former so I could lift this new hatch out from the hull.
I have now glued the two halves of the roof back together again and fitted some small shelving edges to stop it dropping through into the hull!
I think it will look quite good when it is finished ……..but wonder why I always feel the need to make a nice simple job a lot more involved than it needs to be.
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Yup been there done that..........doh O0
Probably never again though :}
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Bob Zooma plays with his saw.......yet again!
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Thanks for posting the pictures Tony, they show my new front hatch along with the mix of old and new wood that is being brought together - hopefully to produce a complete Stilleto (are you reading this Will?) .....Sea Commander sometime in the not too distant future..... %)
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I have not had too much time at home recently, but I have managed to spend some of it in the workshop (shed) to make and fit the front cabin roof.
The rear cabin roof should have been a lot easier to make than the front roof, but the new 4mm plywood baseplate that I glued the formers onto warped!
I removed the formers and clamped the baseplate onto the solid steel table of my bandsaw and after cleaning the glued surfaces I rebuilt it again.
The next morning I removed the clamps only to discover that it had warped again - but not so much this time.
This was now getting “personal” >>:-( . The obvious thing to do would be to cut some new wood, but I repeated the process of taking the front and rear roof formers off of the baseplate and cleaned the old glue off (again).
The baseplate was clamped down onto the bandsaw table and again checked to make sure that it was perfectly flat before gluing the two end formers on again, but this time I added a central spline with two half formers spaced equally on each side and added the the small side formers.
When the new assembly was still clamped to the steel table I added some diagonal cross strips between all the formers and left it to dry for the next day.
Fortunately this time the roof baseplate remained absolutely flat and so I was able to fit the plywood skin to cover it.......and leave it on the bandsaw table to dry overnight.
When I am home next, I just need to trim the skin to fit and both cabin tops will be finished making the construction look more like a Sea Commander :-))
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From Bob
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Both cabin tops are now finished and fitted, and the cockpit windscreens have been made and fitted with a short mast, so the basic construction is now completed and the model has been given its second coat of primer/undercoat and will gain its first coat of spirit based gloss paint very soon.
I still need to add some glass fibre matting in and around the engine bay and motor mounts - just to reinforce (although it looks strong enough already to be honest) and then I can start to paint the interior before re-fitting everything back into the boat.
The prop shaft, motor, coupling, steering servo, ESC and receiver can then be re-fitted. These were fitted before the side skins were glued on so that the motor and shaft/coupling could be aligned more easily and platforms were made and fitted at this stage for the ESC and receiver to sit on when they were easy to see and fit.
Battery holding compartments were also fitted at this stage so the two LiPo cells can be slotted into position to give quick and easy removal for charging or exchanging for fully charged cells lakeside if required.
The steering servo mounts were also fitted before the side skins were glued-on and the linkages were made and tested at this stage.
Holes to take the water-cooling tubing and the servo wires were drilled and the installation checked and some small magnets were fixed in the rear compartment to hold some basic tools (Allen keys and a simple stamped steel spanner) "on-board" to allow basic lakeside adjustments to linkages, motor and coupling removal (or adjustment) and propeller replacement.
I will add a screwed stud (I forgot to do this) to hold a spare propeller so I should be able to take care of any minor incidents lakeside without having to carry a toolbox.
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More from Bob.
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The paint is really tying the old and new together now. Should look really smart.
Chris
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Thanks Chris - and Tony for posting the pictures for me :-))
Once I have made a template for the unique Sea Commander "wave breaker" to fit on the front cabin I will get it cut and fitted to complete my "look-a-like" Sea Commander.
Then comes the job I hate the most - painting........and I have yet to come up with a suitable paint scheme!
I like to finish my new builds and/or restore my classic model power boats with a traditional oil based paint applied by brush - very time consuming - and I have yet to master the technique.........and finding good oil based paints is getting harder all the time - so I am NOT looking forward to the next few days/weeks with a paintbrush <:(
I will make some basic cockpit detailing etc later, but first I want to get the main boat build finished and painted so I can run it and see how I get on with a non-water cooled ESC (a first for me)!
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I'd suggested to Bob that he'd gone over to the "Dark Side" of ARTR so his conscience pricked him into sending these!
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Getting a good choice of traditional oil based paint colours is getting harder all the time as the manufacturers change their production to the more environmentally friendly water base "easy clean" types, so I mixed some of the blue and white paints that I had to give me a pale blue shade to try on the deck. I think it looks OK so I will stay with it.
Stirring the non-drip paint removes its jelly like composition and it becomes much more like a normal paint and so it was easy to mix the two colours together and it has worked quite well.
The wave-breaker shape has also worked quite well (maybe a little bigger than the kit shape?) but once I have finished sanding it and get some paint on it I will decide if needs re-shaping or not, but for now I am happy with it.
I am using the wave breaker to protect the extra hatch that I fitted into the front cabin roof. This extra hatch was worth making as it gives access to an area of the Sea Commander that is not possible to get into on the original kit built design.
The cold weather has further delayed the progress on this "copy commander" even further, but I am not in a rush (!) and I am pleased that the two delaminated and incomplete cabin sides that Will gave me by mistake have formed the base that encouraged me to restore them and cut the extra shapes that were needed to make them into the model that can be seen here.
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A visit to the Bury Model Boat Club yesterday afternoon,
(I arrived too late to see their open day events) has inspired me to look at my Copy Commander again with a view to getting it in the water in the near future.
All of the insides have been given a coat of gloss magnolia paint and the motor has been fitted and thread locked into the alloy water cooled mount and finally installed into the hull.
I started to touch-up the paintwork that has suffered from being left in my active workshop for too long and when dry I will double check the fine alignment of the Powerflex coupling before locking the motor mounts side adjustment screws and the Powerflex coupling to the 5mm shaft.
The motor has been connected-up with its integrated water cooling system but I am going to use the 120amp Surpass fan cooled ESC (not water cooled) to see how I get on with it before deciding to stay with it or replace it with my usual choice of water-cooled ESC.
I have never used a non-water-cooled ESC in any of my classic model powerboats, and I am hoping for the best, but the plumbing is already in place to allow me to fit a SeaKing 120amp ESC if I have any problems with the Surpass ESC.
The boat will be "water tested" before any final painting is completed, but it will be wearing the red, white and blue colours right from the start - its just that hand painting with gloss paints really needs lots of coats of paint and rubbing down in-between them to achieve a fine finish, and I don't want to wait any longer - so although it won't pass any fine finish inspections, it will get to see some action on the water very soon.
The boat will carry a pair of 2C 7600mAh LiPo battery packs - fitted low down, one on each side of the hull under the cockpit floor (the cockpit will not be detailed in time for the water trial either) to give good "working ballast" that will hopefully be found to be in the right place!
Any decorative accessories that may be fitted will also follow after the performance trials - just in case any serous (unexpected) modifications need to be made.
Hopefully I will be able to close the chapter on this lengthy new build with a successful performance either on the local Bury Club waters or on its home lake at Southport.
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My Kopy Kommander finally completed her 'sea trials" on the Southport Club lake last week and generally performed very well.
The model lifted up quickly onto the plane, was well balanced and had plenty of speed using a 45mm prop I will do some further testing with a 50mm prop and a 45X prop.
The non-standard stakes looked good and may or may not have contributed to the good performance?
The model made a some strange (vibration like) noises at 3/4 throttle that quickly disappeared as the revs increased. I checked that the coupling and motor etc was tight and that the prop shaft still had a small amount of free play in it so at the moment it is a mystery.
The boat has a new well greased M5 prop shaft and has a perfectly aligned new Powerflex coupling so I am testing the different prop sizes to see if this helps to remove the mystery "vibration" type of mid-range sound.
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Fantastic news Bob, she looks very smart and I'm really pleased that you've got her bottom wet and that she performs as well as you hoped.
We look forward to seeing some action shots, and a video would be even better again.
Will
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Hi Zooma
The [/size]strange vibration may be in the hull bottom skins !!
[/size]WE have had that in some boats like the Spearfish so we add two 6mm square timber 3/4 the length of the boat inside.
[/size]
[/size]Canabus
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Hi Zooma
The strange vibration may be in the hull bottom skins !!
WE have had that in some boats like the Spearfish so we add two 6mm square timber 3/4 the length of the boat inside.
Canabus
Thats an interesting thought.
I will take a look at that.
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I did notice that the Copy Commander did not run as naturally "dry" as my Rapier with some spray water getting in through the window openings (my Rapier still runs today "dry" inside - and I have never glazed any of the window openings!
The windows need glazing to keep the inside of the hull totally dry during normal operating conditions, so I want to find out what sort of adhesive to use to glue the clear plastic glazing into the inside of the cabin sides.
Another option, would be to make some external "frames" to sandwich the clear plastic between them and the outside of the cabin sides. I have seen this idea used on later versions of the reproduced Sea Queen kits and it does not look too bad, but I have not seen this idea used on the smaller Sea Commander.
Of the two options mentioned above, I think I would prefer to keep the clean lines of the cabin sides and glaze it from the inside.
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Hi Old Fruit
I use airplane canopy glue!!!
Restoring a Sea Rover at present after finishing a Billings Kadet(June Model Boats Mag).
Canabus aka Harry
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Hi Old Fruit
I use airplane canopy glue!!!
Restoring a Sea Rover at present after finishing a Billings Kadet(June Model Boats Mag).
Canabus aka Harry
Good to hear from you Harry, and thanks for the tip.
I am guessing that the canopy glue will not cause the plastic glazing to "fog" so I will check out my universal suppliers (Amazon and eBay) and get myself some.
The Sea Rover is probably the only Aerokits model that I have never owned, but I do like the look of it and like the removable sun canopy idea, so maybe (after too long a lay-off) when I get my model boat mojo back again it is something for me to consider after I complete my Swordsman.
Meanwhile, I am hoping that you will start a Sea Rover blog on here so I can see how your restoration progresses.
Stay safe - Bob.
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I have an iPhone 16 (basic model) and if I can work out how to send pictures from it to this site, I will send some of the "Kopy Kommander" on the water as she is now.
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Oh Yes? {-) ................................!!!!!! :-))
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Oh Yes? {-) ................................!!!!!! :-))
Hi Tony,
Hope all is well with you, and thank you for posting all of my previous pictures for me due to my inability to post them myself on Model Boat Mayhem.
Posting pictures on any of the other forums that I get involved with is quite a simple process that even a simpleton such as myself can manage, but posting pictures on this forum is not quite so easy a process from an iMac or an iPhone...........but I would like to see if the process has improved....... or if I can grasp the transfer method myself this time .
The odds may not be too good (given the previous history) but I will take another look.................
Stay safe and thanks again for all you help :-))
Bob.
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Good morning Bob!
It was always a pleasure and please don't worry about me moving back to the "Dark Side".........the photo transfer system is still available if you wish!
Cheers
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(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/blob:https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/42d69b00-2b78-415e-addb-00baea72328c)Not sure how I did this yet - but I have uploaded a picture of a Tiger 1 that I was airbrushing !
I will try again with a picture of my Kopy Kommander, but for now the image of my advanced spray booth has made it onto the site - once I find out exactly how I did it, more relevant pictures may follow..................
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Hi zooma,
It's a really really nice Tiger 1 model.!! well painted, indeed !! Nice pic.!! O0
I like both German tanks,Tiger 1 and Panther. :-)) :-))
Kiyo
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Hi Kiyo,
It is nice to hear from you, and to see the pictures of your tanks.
I painted that Tiger 1 in the "ambush scheme" and when it was pictured it was only part completed, but I was pleased with it when it was finished.
More recently I have sold all of my WW2 armour as my interest has changed to more modern tanks from the "cold war" period - mainly British Centurion, Chieftain, Conquerer and Challenger models, but also the Leopard 2A6 - all in 1/16 scale.
I will probably do more modelling in the winter, but for now I am enjoying the warm weather and spending a lot of time outdoors....but do hope to work-out how to post pictures on Mayhem from my iMac in the future. The picture shown of one of my Tiger 1 tanks worked, but I have not been able to repeat this feat with anything for a second time (!) so I need to find out how to do it!
Last night I did start to glaze the windows of my Sea Commander as I have found that it runs quite 'wet" compared to my other classic power boat models (that have more of a deep vee shaped hull form) and hope to find time to sail it again in the very near future........and to picture it here on Mayhem!
Stay safe. Bob.
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Hi zooma,
I do feel easy on reading your latest posts about RC activity.! :-)) :-))
I also look forward to reading as well as seeing your RC activity with more pics and /or videos which are so appealing and persuasive
concretely about what you have done together with descriptions to the Mayhammers here. :-)) O0
Kiyo
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Sea trials of my “Kopy Kommander” continued at Southport today after a similar session on Wednesday showed some ongoing improvements were needed.
Firstly the glazed windows removed any water ingress being splashed in from the decks but some minor seepage could be seen in the central compartment under the end of the prop shaft to coupling joint.
More minor seepage was found in the rear compartment around the rudder shaft.
The M5 prop shaft was removed and was coated with petroleum jelly and the rudder shaft was given the same treatment.
Some water cooling tubing was sliced off to make thin seals at either end of the prop shaft and rudder shaft and everything was refitted into the hull.
At the same time the prop was changed from 50mm to 45mm as I thought it would suite the in-runner motor better.
Today’s performance was the best so far. The smaller prop ran much smoother with only a small loss in overall top speed (already too fast) with no vibrations at any throttle position.
The rear compartment was totally dry, and only a tiny drip of water could be seen under the coupling to prop shaft joint in the central compartment and there was a chance that I splashed this in when fiddling about inside the boat when it was already in the water!
I am now fairly happy with the performance of my rebuilt Sea Commander - a model that I would not have had if Will had not accidentally given me a pair of incomplete and delaminated cabin sides in amongst some other old model boat parts that had been “rescued” when we were sorting through some old broken hull parts in our (failed) attempt to find enough parts to copy and make a pair of Stilletto models (small Rapiers).
Fortunately both Will and myself have both acquired used examples of Stilletto models to restore since then, so this Kopy Kommander has been a really unplanned (and very welcome) addition to my fleet of classic model power boats .
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I did wonder what my home made version of an Aerokits Sea Commander would look like when it was seen alongside a genuine kit built example.
Recently I have been able to veiw my “Kopy Kommander” against some “proper” kit built Sea Commander models and found that it compares very well against the genuine Aerokits originals - it looks exactly the same when placed alongside them, but closer inspection reveals some minor detail changes.
Although the opening front hatch that was fitted to give access to this otherwise closed part of the hull is visible on close inspection, but cannot be seen when the boat is on the water.
The edges of the decks look much straighter and “flow” better (to my eyes) than any kit built Sea Commander (or Sea Queen) that I have seen to date - at the cost of loosing the distinctive “swooping” lines of the kit design.
This is probably because I had no bulkhead shapes to copy so as I developed my own shapes I spent some time to make sure that the stringers fitted with no “rise and fall” as Tony had warned about checking the edges of the deck to make sure they were straight.
I have an old Sea Queen awaiting restoration. When I get around to doing it I may decide to remove the side and deck skins to change the “swoopy” look that it has and try to achieve a similar straighter deck edge line to the Kopy Kommander. I am also tempted to cut some more triangular hardwood strips and add some stakes as I like the way they look and perform on this smaller version.
The triangular strakes that I cut and fitted to the underside of the hull were inspired by those on my Swordsman. They are not standard on a Sea Commander (or a Sea Queen) but I liked the way they looked and they can be seen to lift the boat more readily onto a plane with very little power input, so I am pleased that I added them during the build.
Storing some “essential” small tools on magnets inside the rear compartment made changing the propeller when pond-side very easy to perform ......and is something that others have noticed and commented positively about (and copied) since I first fitted similar tools to magnets in the rear compartment of my Rapier restoration some years ago, and it has proven to be a really handy feature to have on this model too .
I have wanted to own a Sea Commander since i was 16 years old, and the 60 year wait has been well worth while - (even if it is not an original Aerokits model). I am really enjoying sailing this model and I wish I had built (or bought) one a long time ago!
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Tomorrow I hope to test the final small handling “tweak” that should improve the left to right balance of the hull.
My earlier pictures of the middle compartment show the custom made battery containers that I designed to hold a 7600 LiPo on each side.
Unfortunately all testing to date has only been completed with ONE battery as the water cooling outlet pipe fouls the entry to the right hand side battery compartment (!) , and reaching up in between the small gap between the cabin side and the hull side to connect a longer length of water cooling pipe has not been something that I was looking forward to doing!
A hole has been bored in the lower part of the cabin side to hold the longer cooling output pipe in a higher position to allow the second LiPo battery to slide under it when it is being fitted and removed.
All I have to do now is to fit the longer cooling outlet tube and connect it............then the hull will be perfectly balanced with a LiPo fitted in each side 👍
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Hi Zooma
Twin 7600 batteries are you planning to run the boat to London and back !!!
I have only used a 3S 5000 mah in my Sea Commander.
Oh well as it's Winter down south, so it's a quick Saturday morning run and back to the heater.
I am still restoring a Sea Rover and just received an unstarted Lesro Sprite.
My first unstarted kit boat !!
Another tick off the bucket list.
Harry
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Hi Harry,
I normally only connect one battery at a time but have one mounted on each side to balance the boat.
Two different types of “Y” lead allow me to double the capacity or run on 4 cells (!) but I prefer to run one battery at a time as that gives me plenty of run time (not measured exactly how long per battery yet) before coming in to change over to the second battery.
The size of our Southport club lake does not need more than two cells and the boat has plenty of power and more speed than I would normally use on it, but I do have some three cells LiPos available for winter use when the weather can get a bit rough and a little more power can be used to drive the boat into the wind - not experienced this yet with this boat, but have done it plenty of times with the Rapier in recent years.
I have not timed any runs yet, but based on what my Rapier gives me on the same LiPos I would expect to get 15 - 20 minutes on each battery, although the Rapier has my usual out-runner motors and this boat is my first classic model power boat to be powered with an in-runner (and a non water cooled ESC).
Only the alloy motor mount and the motor’s water jacket are water cooled for now- the 150 amp Surpass ESC is fan cooled as standard.
I know you have told me many times, but I am still surprised that after all these years of model boating you have still never actually built anything from a new kit (!) - but you have years of working on model boats so I am sure you will find it easy enough and I hope you enjoy building your first ever model boat from a kit .
Nice to know that you have an Aerokits Sea Rover on the restoration production line - one of the few Aerokit classic model power boats that I have never built or owned……but maybe one day I will get the chance to fill this void !
Stay safe, and enjoy you Tazzi winter building projects.
Bob.
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The (copy) Sea Commander ran really well again today, but the small water weep that drips off the end of the prop shaft next to the coupling continues to annoy me.
I actually wonder if it is because the prop shaft is slightly too short so that the inner-most end of it is actually below the water-line and so what I am suffering from is a natural siphoning action?
The shaft length is exactly as specified in the Aerokits Sea Commander kit - so maybe other Sea Commander operators have the same problem?
If the prop shaft was 1/2” longer it would be above the water-line and would stay dry?
The commander sailed perfectly “straight” (no list) with an Overlander 7600 hard cased Sport Track LiPo mounted on each side of the battery compartment.
This is a very nice boat , if I can fix the minor seepage at the inner end of the prop shaft I will learn to put up with it ….but I would rather not ! 🤔
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My Sea Commander was running very well again today on the Southport Club lake and I was able to compare it directly with another members kit built original, and apart from mine having the added strakes they both looked the same as each other.
The kit built example had some rather nice extra detail added (that mine lacks), but hopefully when I get some time at home in the workshop (shed) I can add some nice similar details to mine 👍