The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: tonyH on November 20, 2022, 06:05:43 pm
Title: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on November 20, 2022, 06:05:43 pm
Now its getting colder, thoughts lead to the next cunning plan! I managed to get the drawings for this from the Amsterdam Maritime Museum some years ago and now seems to be the time to plan the build. I know that there is what appears to be a contemporary model somewhere since there is a photo of the bow curly bits but the museum now seem to be reluctant to help. Why that is I cannot possibly think? I know it's not at Den Helder Naval Museum but I took a load of pics of contemporary models of other vessels of the same type while there in August and they're great for the armaments which are standard Krupps but can anyone, especially any Dutch members, suggest where the model is? Many Thanks Tony
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: zooma on July 13, 2023, 10:43:04 am
Have you managed to locate this missing model - or are you making your own?
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on July 13, 2023, 07:31:42 pm
Hi Bob, No sign of model so I've taken the plunge with a 1/96 version using what details I can find. It'll be the lower, black, version with the "battle" tops since that was as completed rather than as modified. Tony
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: zooma on July 14, 2023, 11:25:26 am
That will keep you quiet for a few hours............. O0
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on July 14, 2023, 12:14:49 pm
hartelijk bedankt old chap O0
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: zooma on July 14, 2023, 12:19:02 pm
........"what he said".................... :embarrassed:
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on July 15, 2023, 06:09:58 pm
As I used to say when Radio Joe was starting on a project: Get the tea on and the biccy tin out, we've got ourselves an exciting project to watch and learn from!
I look forward to see some photos of this project!
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on July 16, 2023, 09:30:32 am
The Dutch might use the word "Wensdenken" and no promises but I'll see what I can do! %)
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on July 31, 2023, 12:45:10 pm
Right, well here goes :-)
The Dutch Navy weren't happy with the first build so she was rebuilt which led to a number of differences between the hull drawings so I've had to make some decisions but I reckon this is fair. The dates on the drawings don't compute anyway. The aft cross sections on the later plans show a definite step roughly halfway up between the waterline and the deck line. This does not appear on the earlier ones. I've kept the step 'cos it's more interesting. So the first pic is the Mark 1 and the second shows the cutout which runs aft from about 2/3 from the bow.I decided to make the hull in 2 halves, one up to the waterline with all the works with the upper half with all the twiddly bits dropping over and located with magnets. I've used this method a few times and it does the job for me. Most of the build so far comes from a large pack of balsa I bought a couple of years ago on A****n, 8mm and 4mm ply I had spare and a couple of sheets of 3mm balsa I actually bought! 2x385 motors from CompShop, 12" shafts from MBB and couplings I had in stock. Now I've got to get some 0.8mmply and beading from SLEC.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on July 31, 2023, 03:15:35 pm
Great start Tony! What a sleek ship considering her role. In fact most of the Scandinvian* coastal defence ships were quite attractive, probably until they were fitted with extra weapons for AA defence and the like.
I look forward to progress.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: derekwarner on August 01, 2023, 12:40:27 am
Tony...that PLAN2 ODD.jpg image is I believe an early rendition of 1st angle projection
1. We see she has a finer Stern than Stem by about 200% O0 2. A propeller is shown stbd side but looking from the stdb engine onto the propeller %)
But the Bakers Pancake shaped lines directing Frames 20/15/10/5 then 93 1/2/90/85 have me a little tossed ...must admit, I do not understand these ;D
Or is my problem that I am looking at these images upside down? {-)
Derek
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on August 01, 2023, 11:13:57 am
All things are possible Derek, especially after the fun yesterday at the Oval :-)) Meanwhile, this is the deck shape which could be the original or post-rebuild. Frankly, I've no idea and it's very difficult to confirm on any of the photos I have. As to the strange "growth", it could be the area covered by the extra iron-wall imparting the protection to being a protected cruiser. Cheers Tony
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: raflaunches on August 01, 2023, 12:49:48 pm
Tony...that PLAN2 ODD.jpg image is I believe an early rendition of 1st angle projection
2. A propeller is shown stbd side but looking from the stdb engine onto the propeller
Derek
I think you are confused mate :} I see it as the port propeller looking forward not the starboard on that drawing
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: derekwarner on August 01, 2023, 01:29:44 pm
Ahah........I just threw that in as a red herring to see if anyone was watching {-)
Clearly the vessels Regela is shown on the stern image plan7.jpg & so dictates the angle of projection O0
The real question is of the Bakers Pancake lines? also shown in the Elevation view
Derek
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on August 01, 2023, 03:12:33 pm
I'll just put it down to high spirits :embarrassed:
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on August 09, 2023, 03:45:55 pm
Of course I managed to totally misread the supposed cutouts on the upper hull. They don't exist so I've now sorted the actual layout and rebuilding proceeds. :embarrassed: Derek. Pancake shows up better on this so seems to be protection for the boilers/engine etc.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: derekwarner on August 10, 2023, 12:24:11 am
Yes Tony.....the Pancake profile lines are clearly shown in this image as a heavily reinforced layer
It is possible that the designers were mimicking the profile of a huge underwater Creature, be Fish or Mammal %)
Certainly from mid-ships to the bow, a high degree of symmetry between the line of the reinforcement to the curve of the keel plate
Derek
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on August 10, 2023, 03:55:40 pm
The dark line is actually the protective deck. Amidships its higher then the waterline and would probably have sloped down to each beam. The angle for and aft was typical - a kind of carapace design so that the protective deck is below the water line fore and aft.
Amidships its higher to again protect the vitals but also to provide a significant reserve of buoyancy. The protective system mimics that used in the standard large ships of the day. I don't know enough of the vessel to comment on whether it had any side armour and just relied on the protective deck. In that time there were two types of cruiser - protected which just had the protected deck and armoured cruisers which had side armour.
The intent is not to mimic a fish but to protect the buoyancy. Stores would typically be stored above the protective deck such that any water entering would be reduced by the volume of the stores so stability would be preserved. The carapace shape also has a tendency to deflect low angle fire from any of the vitals.
And yes this did give odd deck levels below the weather deck!
Weight was the problem so economy of protection was built in. Its a very fascinating period in naval construction.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on August 10, 2023, 05:42:21 pm
By rights she's protected only but she can also be very confusing. I'm now working on the basis of no waterline reinforcement, even though the lower hull finish is carried well above the waterline. That said, I originally had a second set of contemporary frame plans which showed a distinct run of something, about 2m wide, above and below the waterline inside the hull {:-{ . These I've chucked but they may have applied after the rebuild %%
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: derekwarner on August 11, 2023, 12:33:17 am
Tony
When I questioned mimicking an underwater Fish or like, was not for any mythical thought, but the flattened cylindrical shape being a pressure-resisting vessel or hull
Early submersible vessels, [later known as Submarines] used this same roundish fish like flattened cylindrical shape hulls for this pressure-resisting purpose
Derek
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on August 11, 2023, 12:14:48 pm
On checking further Wikipedia describes it as a protected cruiser, so no side armour, just a protective deck. We should also draw a distinction between armour, which is basically solid slabs subject to specialised treatment and a protected deck which is layers of steel riveted together to form the appropriate thickness, in this case apparently 2 inches. The protective deck was therefore more flexible to horizontal fire where shells were expected to hit at a very oblique angle and glance off.
Typically coal was also piled on the beam slant of the deck to provide additional protection to the vitals.
Either way a very interesting model and I await further updates with interest.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on August 11, 2023, 12:22:31 pm
As an add on, in turns of ship structure, naval architects liken it to a box girder for structural strength calculations. Its very resistant to bending but if you punch enough holes in it, it will break.
Interestingly enough many ships had tumblehome, the sides angle inwards above the waterline. This was done for two reasons, firstly a nominally curved section is stiffer than a square section so it improves the strength of the hull girder. Secondly by making the deck narrower it saves weight. However if overdone it reduces the righting moment of the hull as it heels. French battleships were very prone to this and during WW1 a number proved to be very unstable - Bouvet at the Dardanelles sank very quickly due to lack of inherent stability in part occasioned by excessive tumblehome.
Interestingly the French tried to correct this by building almost square caissons amidships to improve their stability and this can be seen in old pictures.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on August 23, 2023, 12:40:04 pm
Well, here she is now at an early stage that, hopefully, gives a better idea. Lots of fettling to be done and interpretation from the photos but it seems to be on the right lines. Just going back to the matter of what I thought was a step, it is obvious now that there's no step but the the cut-out areas are simply no-go areas, with solid bulwarks inboard and just rails outboard, when the port and starboard weapons are trained aft.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: raflaunches on August 23, 2023, 03:02:34 pm
She has some elegant lines and these are clearly seen in your model. Beautiful work Tony. Love this era of ship.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on August 23, 2023, 05:19:38 pm
Yes, a superb looking model Tony! This will keep me enthused seeing your progress. Without the armoured belts cutting into the strakes, you should have an easier time of it plating the hull.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on August 24, 2023, 09:32:22 am
Thanks for the comments chaps but a touch of caution is required, simply because it'll be too easy to create a bit of a lash-up from the conflicting/confusing info I'm working from O0 . I suppose that the formula should be to stick enough guns and ventilators on and paint the whole lot black! :-)) Tony
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 02, 2023, 07:43:32 pm
I'm trying to get an idea of what goes on in the fighting top as far as access is concerned. They originally had 3 multi-barrelled 1 pounder nordenfeldt up there so several crew in place. No rope ladders and no "staples" up the mast so is it (a) possible that access was up the 1 metre diameter mast or (b) via the lightweight davit fitted? Any thoughts? {:-{
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on September 02, 2023, 10:38:03 pm
It was common practice to use the interior of the mast as access. Many of our early dreadnoughts had such access either via the vertical or supports. Have a look at either raflaunches' Dreadnought build or Geoff's Iron Duke build I recall there being some discussion on access and spotting tops ba[size=78%]ck in the day.[/size]
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: raflaunches on September 02, 2023, 10:43:45 pm
I must admit that I don’t have a definitive answer but I suspect that Ian is right. I’ve looked at British contemporaries of the era and they went up the outside with ladders and rungs. I’d guess that they must go up the inside on the Koningen Wilhelmina as there is no other logical way into the fighting top. As you say there are no pictures showing any rings or ladders so I’d say they must go up internally.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 03, 2023, 01:14:39 pm
Thanks again gentlemen. I believe we're agreed that it must be the case. A much simpler version of the attached which is for the Barbarossa (1901) from the Dreadnought Project plans where there appear to be access doors to P & S on the main and upper decks. As far as what's in the top, I'm assuming that the access hatch must be raised for (a) safety reasons and (b) so the poor "b****r" climbing up doesn't get too wet when it rains! :-))
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: raflaunches on September 03, 2023, 08:45:36 pm
That’s why I love the Victorian era- it was so innovative but at the same type so archaic! I was going through some drawings with Ron Dean earlier this year of a Royal Navy torpedo boat which had a really strange rudder system which was more akin to a Kitchener rudder but angled outwards. Apparently it worked but probably not taken up due to complications and expense compared to a standard rudder. It’s the experimental nature that I like.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on September 08, 2023, 10:52:31 am
I would agree, it was common to have both access routs, staples on the outside and a ladder on the inside of the mast in this era.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 08, 2023, 12:56:34 pm
This is worth watching just to see the view from the fighting top! https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-from-the-fighting-top-of-a-battleship-in-action-1909-online (https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-from-the-fighting-top-of-a-battleship-in-action-1909-online) :-)) It's a pity it's silent!
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on September 08, 2023, 03:54:19 pm
Wow, some amazing footage and a lot of films!
Well done for finding this.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 09, 2023, 03:50:44 pm
Aw, Shucks.....t'weren't nuthin!
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 19, 2023, 04:08:08 pm
Am I right in thinking that the "middle stump" roughly amidships is likely to be a binnacle? Or, could it be some form of fire control?
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: raflaunches on September 19, 2023, 04:55:32 pm
Looks like a binnacle to me- probably put in that position to keep a decent distance from steel structures to stop i interference.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on September 20, 2023, 03:43:26 pm
For what its worth, I agree with Nick! Its too early for fire control in that year.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on September 20, 2023, 04:57:19 pm
Though irrelevant for a model that is to be painted (I presume cheekily!) the binnacle tower might have been built of brass to reduce further interference. I recall reading that some capital ships had parts of their superstructure made of brass for the same reason though I may be wrong. I will re-read the books one day!
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 20, 2023, 05:49:33 pm
It's the only thing it can be and it's probably, as you all propose, to be clear enough to make some difference to the accuracy. I haven't checked any measurements but I believe the height may have been reduced when they removed the battle masts and substituted lumps of, I assume, wood. :-))
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 20, 2023, 07:00:16 pm
Willie as of now with a few of the basic bits added. Plenty more to add as you can imagine!
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on September 22, 2023, 03:53:48 pm
Excellent progress! I like the gun houses, supoib 8)
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on September 23, 2023, 11:59:15 am
Thanks......BUT.......it's always going to look questionable, simply because of the lack of certainty of info. For example, the pic below shows the "railing" cross section around the upper deck. According to one of the drawings this consisted of "storage and cages" so was a box like structure with a round top running round the whole deck, curved corners and all. It'll be about 10x4.5mm and quite a feature but getting it right could be a nightmare and do I bother? It may just be an artists impression after all! Tony {:-{
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on October 09, 2023, 03:08:46 pm
That smacks of an equivalent to the Nelsonian practice of putting hammocks in 'cages' around vital parts of the weather deck to protect against shrapnel before anti spall mats were introduced (see British warships in ww1 and beyond.) I think you are right that these might be an artistic representation, but however they look, they might have been an actual system probably more like mesh caging around stanchion uprights to provide shape. The domed top might have been the hammocks covered in a tarp?
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on October 21, 2023, 01:53:11 pm
I reckon you're right about the "walls" being a plate bulwark with an added wadding/storage/stuff backing. I've not detailed them as such but just tacked the "blocks" in place and I'll make a decision closer to the end. I'm building the 2x6.7" guns for P and S where the bulges are and then the 4x13pdrs for the upper deck, followed by some 1pdr multi's for the fighting tops. I'm also trying to separate the boat rack frames from the awning frames, of which there seem to be dozens, without it looking like a cat's cradle of brass wire %% . Anyhow, this is the current state of play. The only BIG decision I've to make is the underbody colour. Both red and green are allowed and currently I favour green. Answers on a postcard to...........
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on October 22, 2023, 11:19:47 pm
I would go green as long as it fits in with the ship as she was/is in the form you are building her. She's really trotting along now :) I look forward to seeing your guns.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on October 23, 2023, 01:16:04 pm
It's all subjective I suppose. I'm sure I've seen an early postcard on Google with Willie post rebuild (white hull/wooden masts) having a "red/brown" hull. The postcard was, of course, hand coloured, but I've also seen models of contemporary, similar, ships in Amsterdam and Den Helder museums with green underhulls so...........These are the Mk1 versions of the 280mm/210mm and 170mm guns. OK for demo purposes but Mk2 170 and 210s may follow.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: raflaunches on October 23, 2023, 01:25:20 pm
Stunning work as always Tony :-)) I would go with a green underside too as it’s different. As they are discovering with a lot of RN vessels that they weren’t all painted with red anti fouling but more often a dark grey! The green goes well with the black hull too.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on October 23, 2023, 06:33:36 pm
Certainly not stunning Nick, but thanks anyway :embarrassed: The green was really the pre-cursor to the red so I'm sure that some dockyards would have "misplaced" a few drums.....just in case! As I noted to Ian, I'm not 'appy about the barrels on the 170mm guns. They look rather pregnant so I'm going to deliver them and work on a new pair. What I do need advice on is the flotilla of ships boats. I'm looking for 8 or 9 and ideally I just need cheap vac-formed hulls, ranging from about 60mm to 100mm with transom sterns, apart from 1 which is a double ended lifeboat about 80mm. They've got to be lightweight since they're mounted high up. I've got a heap of veneer/1mm ply etc to play with, so does anyone have an idea of a source? Cheers Tony
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on October 28, 2023, 06:28:39 pm
I'm carving a load of ships boats from balsa and detailing them with evergreen styrene strip pack backing card (it behaves better than many free card types :} ) I use a 'bread and butter' method and should probably use lime or rubber tree wood as it's harder, but I think lighter is better even for a large vessel.
If definitely wanting vacformed then maybe someone like Deans would have a range suitable? Worth an ask.
But anyway, I love the guns and turrets etc!!! Not a comment on your building or interpretation skills Tony, but I think older warships look a bit better with chunkier guns as they usually have a chunkier look due to the proportions of the then mid/late Victorian designs. But she is your model so do as you feel the need to do.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on October 29, 2023, 10:14:49 am
I reckon you get to a point in any build where you sort of know when somethings just looks wrong. That's what happened with the gun barrels. I'd been looking at a load of photos of Krupps weapons from the period so little option <*< As far as the boats are concerned, they have to be light because they sit high up on a relatively fine hull so the leverage in a breeze could be a tad tricky. The more weight I can keep low down the better. I've got some builders foam, so I could carve them and skin with gauze but getting four to match, and a pair, and another pair? %%
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on October 29, 2023, 11:28:40 pm
Foam has advantages though some are a bit soft with regard to dinks and tears when working with it. Roacel (the foam used to make surfboards etc) might give you a light but sturdier model to begin with. I thank you for giving my MOJO a little boost so I carved several more balsa boats today.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on October 30, 2023, 09:11:02 am
Glad to be of service :-)) I agree about the foam being probably the worst option but I'll try it anyway. I've ordered some of the cheap Billings ones, that are the right size, from Leeds to compare weights and cut templates for some of the others to try the balsa route. The largest one is the traditional steam pinnace so that needs to be done properly anyway.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: JimG on October 30, 2023, 10:57:41 am
If you carve one foam hull this can be used as the master to make others. If you are willing to do the work you can make planked hulls over the foam master (Inlay strips into the foam as ribs first.) Or cover the foam in tape then release agent and cover with lightweight glass fibre cloth and epoxy to give a thin removeable skin. You would have to sand it before removing from the blank or use a vacuum system to give a better finish to the outside. Probably best to use some carbon fibre tow to stiffen the hull. The best would be to cover the foam blank with epoxy glass then use this to make a mould from which to make the finished hulls. Jim
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on October 30, 2023, 12:06:25 pm
When I make my boats I carve a master in Balsa which is about 2mm too wide and 2mm too long. Its also about 1/2" too deep so you have something to handle. I grease the outside and take a mould in house plaster or plaster of Paris. Once removed I cut along the keel and make it 2mm narrower and the same lengthwise.
The next step it to make a square frame and pin some plastic card on to it. Pop in the oven until it gets hot, place over the female mould and plunge the hull into it and once it sets you have a very light hull. The reason for trimming down the hull size is to make room for the plastic card.
Remove from the mould and trim to shape then it out with plastic strips with the bulwarks first both inside and outside ant his give rigidity. Glue on the keel, stem and stern pieces and fit out the interior with as much detail as you want.
This gives a very light hull and if you build to the same scale you can use the mould multiple times for other models as ships boats are pretty much all the same.
Cheers
Geoff
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on October 30, 2023, 03:55:44 pm
Thanks for the input chaps. I'd used a variation on Jims method for the 210mm gunshield and this worked fairly well using the Vallejo paint masking (latex) for a release agent. I'll probably do the same for each of the 3 singles I need and try the Geoff derivative for the 2 repeat types. I wanted to see what the Billing ones are like simply because they're the rightsize for the 2 clinker built boats on board. :-))
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on November 01, 2023, 07:01:21 pm
You've probably read Eric's posts and possibly his last one on the HMS Glory thread where he mentioned the Dutch Archives. This is the first time that I even knew that they existed, even after questions to museums in Holland. Just shows how serendipity works on Mayhem. Yes, they have the all the drawings I've managed to scratch together plus others in one simple package. Grrrrrrrrrrrr!
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on February 05, 2024, 03:28:28 pm
The plans for the early version of Willie aren't detailed, so I'm having to allow for the sort of fittings likely to be in place. One or the areas is in regard to signalling systems. The "gallows" in the pic are on a model of a protected cruiser of the same period (1890's) in the Dutch Naval Museum in Den Helder and since it's not connected to anything else it could be some sort of telegraph, like the Chappe system......or not! Any thoughts?
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: ballastanksian on February 07, 2024, 10:47:40 pm
Maybe? It looks a little frail to handle torpedoes for loading into an under water torpedo room. But, is there a flag locker nearby on the cruiser model?
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: tonyH on February 08, 2024, 12:03:56 pm
Definitely a bit lightweight ok2 The nearest thing I could find is in this paper from the Royal Signals which seems quite a comprehensive study https://www.royal-signals.org.uk/Datasheets/Telegraph.php and is the 2nd from left on the second row of the 1826 print towards the end. This assumes, of course, that the pointy arms are hiding behind the crossbar. No sign of flag lockers anywhere. It also stands quite high, approx 4m, so quite prominent for a purpose.
Title: Re: HrMS Koningen Wilhelmena der Nederlandse - Help alsjeblieft?
Post by: Geoff on February 09, 2024, 02:53:14 pm
as an alternative some ships used to have a ball one one side and a stiff board on the other which were connected to the helm, so ships following could see which way the ship was turning depending if the board was up and ball down and vice versa.