Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => DC Motors (Brushed) and Speed Controllers => Topic started by: Neil on July 29, 2024, 11:20:42 pm
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i'm not the best when it comes to electronics and have always used Electronize speed controllers for many years........easy to plumb in and easy to use.
but i am finishing a model with twin screw but has very limited space to fit anything in the hull as the original builder had basically made a small box in the centre of the hull, and boxed it all in, and so no where to put a pair of electronizxe esc's anywhere.
i cannot remember whether i bought this or was given it but it must be 10 years old, and has never been out of its plastic pocket until tonight to take a photo of it.
could someone please tell me is it for a single or twin motor..........is it even an esc, and if used what ampage inline fuse /fuses [if a twin esc] should i use please......................or should i just buy a pair of new ones for a tenner off ebay, as i presume that if it is for twin motors and tank steering, that is a whole new ball game to me which i dont fancy getting in to.......too complicated for my tiny feable brain, lol
thank you for any help.
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It's a single esc.
There are many lookalikes on Ebay. The drive fets vary in format, voltage and current.
Minimum throttle starts at a poor 15% duty on all types I tested.
If you want dual throttle, this is a better simple no-nonsense twin motor esc that has the option of mixing or of independent throttle.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354332472778 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354332472778)
Two of us up here abouts tried and liked them.
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hi there Neil
I think, by the pictures you have put on, that this may be one of those from Ebay; like the one in the following link.
I have used one similar to this myself - it was in the little Terrier MTB from KeilKraft. It seems to work okay, it hasn't gone up in a puff of smoke anyway.
1/2Pcs 30 Amp Mini Brushed ESC Electronic Speed Controller For RC Crawlers Boat | eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334566599119?var=543655157545)
Also, HMS Invisible, I have just sent for one of those speed controllers mentioned in your link to try it out. I have another little model on the go at the moment which, if any good, it should fit in perfectly.
john
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thanks for the link HMS I, but that is exactly what i dont want.........like individual use on both motors but just don't have the room to fit my electronize so will go down the route of buying two similare to that in my pic of the single one i have.....that one can go in one of my Atlantic 21's.
thanks for your help guys...........very muich appreciated. cheerrs,
only other question is why are there two wires to fit, 1 male and 1 female, and also a very small switch on one end of the esc..........as i have no instructions so presume i ,must have been given the item.
sorry to be a pain, but as i said.....even a 3 pin plug causes me nightmairs lol.
thanks for all your help.
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Look again on Full description: on the listing and you get
"Current: Single Way 18A, Dual Way 18A x2. The Dual-mix ESC Has the Following Modes l 1x Brushed ESC. l Two-way independent: it is equivalent to two independent ESCs (if you want to simulate a real tank..."
Wiring is so much simpler & it keeps noisy motor current out of the negative esc signal wires that come with two escs tapping off one battery.
Your esc's board mounted switch toggles the brake between boat mode and drag brake.
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hi ya Neil
Would it be possible to put a description/picture of your model on here - so we can see what you wish to fit the speed controllers in? Also, the motors which you wish to use?
There are, obviously, as you know, a lot of speed controllers out there in the wild to choose from? If we know what type of model what motors you wish to use and if you want a single speed controller to control both motors forward and backwards, but not independent or 2 speed controllers with independent control?
The reason I am asking is - on Ebay there is a speed controller which I myself have used and it is shall we say, fair, and it is a single speed controller which controls 2 motors but they are not independent.
The alternative is, for sizewise, I was thinking of MTroneks but they are a slightly expensive, need pockets very deep :D .
John
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Look again on Full description: on the listing and you get
"Current: Single Way 18A, Dual Way 18A x2. The Dual-mix ESC Has the Following Modes l 1x Brushed ESC. l Two-way independent: it is equivalent to two independent ESCs (if you want to simulate a real tank..."
Wiring is so much simpler & it keeps noisy motor current out of the negative esc signal wires that come with two escs tapping off one battery.
Your esc's board mounted switch toggles the brake between boat mode and drag brake.
as i said in my original comment HMS I...........things electronic wise have to be simple, and although i can quite easily wire up two esc's to two motors i just havent a clue what you have been saying with toggle switchesm drag brake etc, and at 73 and recovering a major ilness justcant cop[e with such technology, but john, will post some pics later as i have painted some things a couple of hours ago so will take some later
but to put things in to perspective re...technology.........i dont even use 2.4ghz radio as i only build old classic lifeboats and due to their nature amm ,y radio gear has to be placed under the water line, and as i sail on salt water, 2.4ghz signals will not penetrate salt water as i found to my expence over 12 years ago when i bought 3 brand new sets to sail my [new at the time]3 lifeboats that i had built and shown on mayhem, and wouldnt work.
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john, as i want individual control on both motors as i always have had and normally with plenty of room in a hull to use my normal from choice electronize esc's i find i hace similar control of my lifeboats as with an older classic real lifeboat.
however when i bought this boat off ebay some time ago only partly built, but very nicely built i couldnt see the lack of accessible space below deck until it arived home.
the space is very limited with two small recesses port and starboard that will house a pack of nimh's, a well in front of the motor base which is raised for such things as the receiver, battery pack for that and the 2 esc's, and then the motors. in front and rear of that limmited access the hull has been totallu blocked off and inaccessible by 6mm pky bulk heads,
and that is why i want to use two small speed controllers......simple really and if that controller is similar to a pair on ebay for a tenner then they will do nicely.
cheers.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Whd93fT2/Short-together1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Whd93fT2)
Picture number 4 of the Ebay sale. Connect the two in the yellow box together for individual control.
Better low end throttle.
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Just a thought, how much power (amps) do those motors draw with the props in the water? It's worth checking because those little Chinese esc s are very suspect about the maximum they can cope with, I know because I have a couple. They're sensitive to the peak draw that happens when the motors start. As a rule I half what is quoted for them as a maximum.
5 minutes spent checking might save problems later.
Chas
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Thanks HMS I, but the esc that i have doesn't have the little squre box nor a yellowwire on it, so will just buy a pair on ebay, but that pic you posted has congfused me even more, sorry.
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Just a thought, how much power (amps) do those motors draw with the props in the water? It's worth checking because those little Chinese esc s are very suspect about the maximum they can cope with, I know because I have a couple. They're sensitive to the peak draw that happens when the motors start. As a rule I half what is quoted for them as a maximum.
5 minutes spent checking might save problems later.
Chas
thanks for that vcital piece of info chas, as i wouldnt have thought about the ampage until the boat was stuck in the middle of Fleetwood lake with a wind getting up, lol
but I have a box full of matching motors that I bought as a job lot some time ago at a car boot sale and all ran well including low reving 380s, 400's and 600's so will change these for a couple of 380's or 400s that have used in previous boats with 15 amp fuses set in line.
Again thanks for your help too.
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however, chas,
this was the esc and rx that came out of the boat when i received it, but no tx so dont know whether this might tell you something as to what the motors would be capable of. thanks.
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I've got several of those speed controls. I've only used mine with a single motor. They're rated for up to 10 amps. The switch on the board is to turn the brake function on and off, only used on cars. One of the red plugs goes to the motor the other to the battery.
There is one you can get that's both a speed control and a mixer for twin motors [size=78%]https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/163278956177?var=462522174757 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/163278956177?var=462522174757)[/size]
Hope this helps.
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thanks Barry, will have a look.
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Hi Niel, I noticed that those motors were also sold for electric flight, so I guessed they might like the amps.
The little esc s are sold in 10, 20, and 30 amp versions with very little difference in price so if you have to buy a pair of new ones I'd go for the biggest. They'll work in exactly the same way as the smaller rated ones.
Chas
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Hi there Neil
The last pictures you put on regarding the speed controller which is an Mtroniks 30 amp; I am unsure of the yellow receiver. However, it does look like a 2.4 one, which is no good if you want to run 40 megs.
Now, sit down, I have just priced a new Mtroniks 30 amp speed controller; £56 from Mtroniks; gulp....
So, right, we know that the 2 motors that came with your boat must pull in the region of between 10 and 15 amps each (somewhere in that ball park) because of the speed controller which was supplied with the boat. If you want independent control, you could buy one more of these Mtroniks 30 amp ones - and then - when you receive the speed controller; remove the red wire from one of the plugs that you fit into the receiver. This will prevent interference between the 2 speed controllers. So, you will have one plug from one speed controller going say into number 3 on your new receiver; and the other plug (the one with the wire removed) going into number 1 space in your receiver. This, in effect, will give you tank steering.
Will this help you Neil?
The little speed controller which you have - the one that has a little switch on - and is shrink wrapped - and has a tiny red plug on it for your battery - these are okay but, if you try and use them with the motors you have, it wont drive them independently and it may fry if you put too much umph into it. Personally, I would not risk that.
John
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Hi there Neil
The last pictures you put on regarding the speed controller which is an Mtroniks 30 amp; I am unsure of the yellow receiver. However, it does look like a 2.4 one, which is no good if you want to run 40 megs.
Now, sit down, I have just priced a new Mtroniks 30 amp speed controller; £56 from Mtroniks; gulp....
So, right, we know that the 2 motors that came with your boat must pull in the region of between 10 and 15 amps each (somewhere in that ball park) because of the speed controller which was supplied with the boat. If you want independent control, you could buy one more of these Mtroniks 30 amp ones - and then - when you receive the speed controller; remove the red wire from one of the plugs that you fit into the receiver. This will prevent interference between the 2 speed controllers. So, you will have one plug from one speed controller going say into number 3 on your new receiver; and the other plug (the one with the wire removed) going into number 1 space in your receiver. This, in effect, will give you tank steering.
Will this help you Neil?
The little speed controller which you have - the one that has a little switch on - and is shrink wrapped - and has a tiny red plug on it for your battery - these are okay but, if you try and use them with the motors you have, it wont drive them independently and it may fry if you put too much umph into it. Personally, I would not risk that.
John
Thanks for that info John but my big [put off] problem is that all my other lifeboats have with electronise esc's alwayys run in the traditional way of individual control on each motor as with the actual lifeboats, and tank steering just isn't my scene at all............just my choice.
I don't even know whether the mtronics esc works so cannot really sell it, but a couple of yellowtail ozzy red wine bottles [full preferably] at the blackpool show and they could have the mtronics and the yellow rx, and as you say although the lettering is faded thit is a 2.4 ghz. but having read your post earlier, i bought off ebay two matching esc's to the one i have already.
I also rang Steve Webb models in Runcorn this afternoon, asking about the motors and he told me that they use them for flying aircraft because of their high reving 17k rpm, and have 15amp fuses fitted and not blown one yet so using it/them in a slow classic lifeboat that might pick up weed around a prop, they will be fine with a 20 - 25 amp spade fuse fitted for each motor..........so i ordered 2 off ebay this evening.
Hopefully I'll be on the water by end of next week...........
better get my nimh's topped up.
thanks for all your help guys.........set my mind at rest.
cheers to you all.
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In the imortal words of Victor Meldrew ....I JUST DONNNTTTTT BELEEEEEVE IT!!!
Whilst looking for a servo arm for my hitek servo in my box of r/c bits and pieces i came across this, a matching 30amp esc to the one i posted on here the other night asking for help. But not only the esc but there were numerous Y wiring sets, AND buried under all that wiring a mixer which i presume is what you guys have been talking about and which i have been refusing to entertain
I must apologise to you all for dismissing tank steering and mixing as i must have bought this gear as i cannot for the life of me think that anyone has given it to me..........
there are no instructions with it all as to how to set it up but will look at the diagram already posted and try my best to understand it............
But first things first, i'll go to my local car motor factors and buy a couple of spade type holders for my in line fuses.
May as well try it or i'll never learn and miss out on enjoying it.
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In my ESC-RC dictionary tank steering means two independent or individual throttle sticks.
Does anyone use it in the opposite sense?
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There is often a separate single connector that plugs into the rudder servo signal connection on the rx. This brings the mixer function in and so the motors are controlled together on the throttle stick. The rudder stick then moves the rudder servo, which will require a separate parallel connection as well.
If there is no rudder servo connection then the rudder will control the motors to give steering. But speed and direction will be controlled by the throttle stick.
Roy
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There is often a separate single connector that plugs into the rudder servo signal connection on the rx. This brings the mixer function in and so the motors are controlled together on the throttle stick. The rudder stick then moves the rudder servo, which will require a separate parallel connection as well.
If there is no rudder servo connection then the rudder will control the motors to give steering. But speed and direction will be controlled by the throttle stick.
Roy
now, that has totally bafflerd me Roy......far too complicated for me to follow never mind understand, lol.............i'm a bear of little technical brain, dont forget.
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hopefully my final question for you chaps, as I have found a matching pair of esc's, and two more on the way,
i have made this diagramme of the unit with the 4 leads numbered and was wondering if you learned guys could please explain it to me.
Obviously 4] is the receiver plug in,
and 3] is the on/off switch to the esc I presume.
but what is the little switch on the bottom of the unit 5] for
Finally I am most confused as to what the twin wire male and female leads 1] and 2] are for as they seem too light for battery connections . could someone please explain to me.
Thank you for all your help.
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Leads 1 and 2 are battery and motor connections. There lies the conundrum. Can those wires really handle the current required for the motor(s). I certainly don't think so Neil.
Bob
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Hello Neil I have this esc in several boats as they are very cheap and I use them for low power consumption say 5 amps or less.
The 2 pin plugs are:- male plug goes to the motor and female to the battery. The plugs handle my Monoperm Super motors and use up to about 4 amps. The made up plugs male and female can be bought half dozen of each at a time from several outlets on the Internet.
The small switch on the circuit board is for regenerative braking when using in cars. If there is a pause when going into reverse then adjust the switch to the other position and this should give you quick response.
The BEC function supplies up to 1 amp for rx and servos. When the unit is in operation you will hear a 2 kilo cycle note this is the frequency of the mark / space pulses that supply motor current.
In old type esc's the M/S ratio was the frame speed of just 50 cycles per second and the 2000 cycles gives better control.
The unit weighs just 9 grams and can go anywahere as it does not get warm even.
Input (battery) voltage is up to 8.4 volts or 2S for LiPos. When switching on have the transmitter in neutral and wait a moment, Then try forward and then reverse.
Regards
Roy
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Neil
The switch is a break system, so if you are going full ahead you need to put the stick central first and then reverse. but switching it will then operate straight from forward to reverse or vice versa,.
We use them for the Lowe's Bumper boats on a 7.2v but would probably not use them for anything much higher. They are very sensitive and will blow if connected wrongly !!
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Thank you, Bob, Roy and The Long Build for all your help........got it now, and able to continue hapily, taking on all of your comments as a good learning curve.
In respect of the ampage draw of the motors that were with the boat, and what the gent at Steve Webb models told me about the amps used with these, I will drop the rating of fuse to 10 amp in the online fuse holder as it is a small boat and I dont sail quickly with a lifeboat anyway, and if all goes well with a test in the bath, I'll keep that set up...........
If it goes that I blow the fuses then I'll put in two small Buhlers that I have which draw only 1.5amp at stall anyway and ran a similar model on them a few years ago at a perfect speed with 5 amp fuses in line.
Thank you all so much for your help and patience. My old mate Dave Milbourn would be proud of us all for sorting me out, knowing what he would have been saying by now. lol %) :-)) .
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Isn't it just like old times ........ :o ...... >>:-( ......... {-) .......... O0 .............Derek
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Hi all. Neil, if you are using motors with a 1.5 amp stall current then there is a rule of thunb that efficient operating current (i.e. under load) is 20% of the stall current. 300mAmps at 6 volts is less than 2 Watts.
Not a lot of power! Also if the test is done too often it can effect the strength of the magnetic field of the magnet.
I would look for motors that ran at about 2 - 3 amps for most (scale) model boats. You do not need full power unless you need to stop quickly.
Also I find a use for 20/24 volt motors but running on 6 cells and you can drive large propellers direct from them.
Roy
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Ray, the props are 30mm 3 blade brass, in two tunnels so get quite a bit of boost sat in those tunnels, and with the boat sat on the waterline at 36" loa, and neening no ballastis quite light in weight as well, so should be able to cope well with the two packs of 7.2v ni mhs that i will be using..........but if any mishaps from now on, I'll be back, lol. will start soldering some fuse holders on to wire this afternoon and gert charging my batteries.
Thanks again.
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Isn't it just like old times ........ :o ...... >>:-( ......... {-) .......... O0 .............Derek
just very much more tolerant and less argumentative and abusive Derek....learned a lot on July 27th 2023 after I regained conciousness, ..........best learning curve I ever had mate. %) %) %)
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just as a matter of interest Ray, I have just done something i have never done before, and that is I have weighed this model boat and all up including the motoprs and two battery packs, she weighs just 3.238 kilos, SO i think that with the shape of the hull and the props in tunnels I cant think i'll have much trouble with such a set up.........here's hoping.
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Now hopefully the last question for you guys on this matter and then i can get on soldering the wires together and shrink wrapping them.
Simple question......... the fuse.........does it go between the motor and the ESC or between the ESC and the battery,
on the red wire of course!
Thank you for all your help. :-))
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Hi there Neil
Just to see if you are sorted with your speed controllers yet? Me, I would fit a fuse between the speed controller and the power supply battery.
I sent from one of those speed controllers from China that HMS Invisible sent for and put a link on about. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354332472778
The one I received this morning is either an updated version or the wrong one. It doesn't have a switch on for isolating the brake and there are no soldering connections on the back for a link to make the speed controller tank steering. What it does have though is the 3rd wire which you plug into the rudder terminal signal on your receiver and that gives 100% mixing on the two motors when you move the rudder stick. What I had to do was to connect the single wire from the speed controller via a Y lead; into the receiver and the other leg of the Y lead I connected to a servo to assimilate the rudder servo movement. This produces the correct procedure for mixing - move the rudder servo and one motor will speed up and the other one will slow down - vice versa etc.
Now, if you disconnect the single wire you just have standard control over 2 motors - forward and reverse and no mixing.
I will put a few photographs on tomorrow and a few diagrams just in case Neil, you are not happy with the setup you have and you would like to try something this as it is really so simple to set up.
The only thing I would say about the speed controller from China is the gauge of wiring for the said amperage (30 amps). More like - I would say - 10-15 amps per channel.
John
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Re fuses:
With a single prop boat then put the fuse between the battery and the ESC.
With a twin prop boat then a fuse between the battery and the ESC is a failsafe, but it is also handy to have a fuse between the ESCs and each motor so that if one becomes jammed or weeded up then the other can still function. In that case the first fuse should be of greater capacity than the individual motor ones. OK, not a big deal but it costs pennies.
Colin
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I agree on the cables. One of my modifications was to replace all cables with 18awg ready-crimped red JST plugs.
The principle modification I thought it would benefit from is desoldering the linear bec to replace with a 3-amp switching type as linear bec power loss (in Watts) = (Vin-5)× bec current
I considered making a post about the product update, but thought I'd wait to show you my modifications at the same time.
The pads for mix/tank steering moved but you will find them if at the edge of the other side if you have not already done so. The battery cable was supposedly beefed up in the update.
I've bought a selection of half a dozen Chinese escs and this was one of only two I thought was worth buying. One to avoid was continuously rated above the fuse rating of the cables.
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Re fuses:
With a single prop boat then put the fuse between the battery and the ESC.
With a twin prop boat then a fuse between the battery and the ESC is a failsafe, but it is also handy to have a fuse between the ESCs and each motor so that if one becomes jammed or weeded up then the other can still function. In that case the first fuse should be of greater capacity than the individual motor ones. OK, not a big deal but it costs pennies.
Colin
This is taking a great strain on my brain, guys, but after sending a message to Stavros the other day with exactly the same suggestion that you have made Colin that is what I am doing right now, after going down and getting supplies that I could need from our local car factors.
As for replacing the wiring with heavier grade, HMS, that is one step too far for my feeble mind, I know my limits, and that is beyond my brain AND my arthritic hands and fingers.
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This is for reference only, Neil, so don't panic.
As I mentioned earlier on in my last post - I had sent for one of the Chinese twin speed controllers as mentioned by HMS Invisible.
I sent a message to the seller on Ebay, saying that I hadn't received the one in the pictures - strangely enough he asked me for photographs of the one I received, so I have done that. Some of these are the pics that I sent back.
The last one is to show you the ease of set up with the wires. The only thing that may confuse people is plugging the single yellow signal wire from the ESC into the white signal side of a Y lead. The male plug side of this Y lead is then plugged into your receiver, leaving the other female side of the Y lead to plug into your rudder servo.
I have done a bit rooting around about obtaining some better information on this particular speed controller; and, it does look as though it has a built in thermal. So, if it is overloaded on either motor it will shut down until the fault is rectified.
Last but not least, and this is throwing the cat amongst the pigeons Neil; if you look at the old Electronize speed controllers; the ones that used to come with the built in fuse holders -which side of the speed controller was the fuse fitted? On the battery side.
John
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Last but not least, and this is throwing the cat amongst the pigeons Neil; if you look at the old Electronize speed controllers; the ones that used to come with the built in fuse holders -which side of the speed controller was the fuse fitted? On the battery side.
Interesting point John, do you protect an ESC where the juice goes in or where it comes out, or does it depend on the internal circuitry?
Colin
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Neil, I had John W.E. in a quote box but subsequently deleted it along with photos. Then Colin posted before me. It would have been clear the cable comment was for John before I took the axe to the reply.
John, the original spec on the Ebay sale photos lacked motor connectors too.
I'm showing the white loop I added to switch to "independent" throttles. It connects the processor pin #1 to O volt. I scratched off conformal insulation on the 0-volt ground plane as the tiny pads only suit a solder shorting link.
Note that all that prevents the 5-volt red wire from shorting to O-volt is conformation green conformal coating and solder wicking up the cable to make it rigid. It needs attention, but that's what you expect from Ebay escs.
I've drawn a yellow box round the thermistor. In my opinion this arrangement doesn't give full protection.
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This has become a very interesting topic for me, and must admit I am learning a little more about these things, although there are still words and frases that I still dont understand............but do get the guist of what you are all saying.
Talk about a steep learning curve....I Think I am walking up the steapest...........but learning a little more each day.
thank you all.
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Thanks all for the info and encouagement to attempt the installation and wiring for my two motors in to the lifeboat, as I have minimal space to fit it all in.
I have spent more time thinking of and constructing this wiring harness than any other in my long career of radio controlling models but finally after a few brain farts this afternoon which I wont go in to due to my own stupidity I have succeded in making the harness, soldering where needed and using connecters when near to the units where heat might have damaged them and it is now ready to fit in to the boat and the little cubby holes where things can fit.
The batteries are charged for propulsion and I have plenty of fuses..........just have to pick which of my 40 mhz tx/rx sets to use as I havent used a single radio in over 3 years sinse my completion of my last Liverpool boat in the photo below.
Wish me luck.
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PM sent, Bryan.
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PM sent, Bryan.
reply sent Brian.
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hi there Colin
I haven't disregarded your question about inline fuses - I just didn't want to turn this topic into a subject or a debate which would put a lot of average modellers off electronics.
As in the case of the Sunday morning pondside discussion - where someone has asked the question about electronic components and he being a newby to the hobby - and, shall we say, all the electronically minded members of the modelling society jumping in with 'over the top answers' which the newby may find uninteresting/daunting/put off the hobby.
here is a link from Mtroniks' website about fuses
https://www.mtroniks.net/download.asp?ResourceID=1984
Electronize originally fitted the fuse on some of their speed controllers. because they were receiving a lot of returns stating that it did not work - and the user of the speed controller had not connected the battery to the speed controller the wrong way . But, when opening up the speed controller; it was easy to tell that it had been connected up the wrong way. Either burnt out the output transistor or the track had melted on the printed circuit board.
Here is one for you though - on The Crusader model I built - the speed controller handles up to 200 amp at 50 volt. Also the ducted fan on the Crusader model can ask for that amperage when starting up. So, that would melt any inline fuses - so she doesn't have any - she has what are known as anti spark connectors. There is no on/off switch between batteries and speed controller also, so, the plug is the switch that is plugged into the battery.
John
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oops
looks like that link is a little bit broken :-)
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woops testing you all out - here - see if this one works for you all %%
https://www.mtroniks.net/download.asp?ResourceID=1984
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Leads 1 and 2 are battery and motor connections. There lies the conundrum. Can those wires really handle the current required for the motor(s). I certainly don't think so Neil.
Bob
re; this photo. Bob,
I have wired up and soldered all joints, testing each as i did it with a motor at one end and a battery at the other, and so know all joints are tight and sound.
So when i finished and put them all together put power from a battery to the RX and conected up the other plugs to the rx..............ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except for the red power lights coming on inside the esc's.
Tried the circuits with two different charged tx/rx 40mhz systems and nothing.
so could it be from the diagram that lead 1 could be to motor and lead 2 to the battery, as both radio sets had different frequency chips in them
(https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=70293.0;attach=231431;image)
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Hi ya there Neil
As far as I can see, you have done it right - I have just double checked your layout with the same speed controller - cos I have one too.
The only thing I am unclear of is, have you used a separate battery to power your RX? and another battery to power your motor - in other words - using 2 batteries? If so, this is wrong. The speed controller has a built in BEC which dispenses with the requirement of a feed for your RX from a separate battery.
The other thing is - it doesn't matter if your transmitter is 2.4 or 40 megs - the speed controller will not know the difference - as long as your receiver matches your transmitter.
When you switch on, you should get a few little beeps from the speed controller to signify that it is receiving and you may have to set the throttle range by moving your throttle stick from the centre position to the bottom and back up to the centre.
Couple of pics here to help.
John
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i started off without a seperate battery to the esc and got nothing, so plugged in a batery pack yo each of the esc's and still got nothing........so if the former should work on the pins that you and Bob said was right and i have looked closely at yours compaired with mine and have done that right, then it must be a problel with both my old rx/tx's.
I'll try another 40mhz and a 2.4 system that i have. cheers.
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Just a thought, what voltage is the battery you plugged into the esc. Apologies if you've already mentioned that.
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jusdt a 4 pack of 1.2mhp pencel batteries. :-))
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i have checked the wires to the motors as oposed to the batteries and those are correct too as the middle black and red are going to the two batteries, and the outer ones to the motors
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well!!!, i think i have found one problem in why these two sets wouldn't work, not only on the rig that i had put together but also when i brought out 3 servos to test them and the systems on.
I was given one set a couple of years ago and the other set I bought at a bring and buy a few weeks ago.
TOOK THEM FOR GRANTED, as the kind people guarrenteed that they worked.
However, tonight they didn't after i had charged them both up............
But I didn't check the frequencies of the tx's and rx's............there in lay the problem.......2 x tx with the same frequency, and one Tx and one Rx matching but NOT IN THE RIGHT PLACES in the same transmiter and matching receiver, and until today had never touched them. so i had one set with a tx and none matching rx in one set and the other set with 2 tx in the transmitter AND RECEIVER......A TOTAL MISH MASH.
So now have one set working and one set of 2 tx cristals..........but i have some crystals somewher so will matche up to make two more sets...............and now i have a working tx/rx that i have tested with servos, hopefully i can have a good night sleep and conect up to the set i built, and if it is all go and working tomorrow will put in to the boat, and finally name her.
bit superstiscious but i wont name a boat until everything else is sorted.....keep your fingers crossed folks.
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We've all made that mistake with crystals. Re the battery, 4 x rechargeable batteries are only 4.8 volts and I think the esc specifies 7.2 volts. I certainly wouldn't expect it to work on less than 6 volts.
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hi there Neil
Let us hope we have it sorted this time.
Last but not least - if you are going to connect two of these speed controllers - into the same receiver - you will need to remove one positive red wire from one speed controller, as these both have BECs - and if you don't you will have all types of problems.
Best of luck
John
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well, I have to admit absolute failure, sadly <:( <:( <:( <:(
After checking all the fuses, connections etc, I connected the leads up to the motors, batteries, and then connected them to the same plugs as the servos I used for testing, including one for the rudder servo and tried......no fuses blown, rudder servo worked as should................and sod all from the motors...............even the lights in the esc's didn't come on. So I plugged in a 4.8v pack of pencel batteries, no fuses blown, red lights on esc's lighting up, rudder servo still worked, but no joy with the motors.........
What have I done wrong.......is there anyone within a 50 mile radius to Blackpool that I could bring this set to, to sort out for me please. cheers.
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SORRY JOHN, connected them all before i saw your note about removing one red lead.........will try again now.
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just tried removing the red lead from one esc/..........and not even the rudder servo worked after that move..............
HELP!!!.............I NEED A ROCKET SCIENTIST LOL. :(( {:-{ %) %) %)
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Hi Neil, I think you're tying yourself in a knot here, please try this.
Disconnect everything.
Plug one esc into the receiver. The one with the red wife still in place Check Plugs are the correct way round
Plug one servo to the receiver.
Connect one motor to the esc
Switch on the correct transmitter, all sticks in the centre position
Now plug a 7.2 volt battery into the esc, NOT a 4.8 volt pack.
That should work, if it does, report back and you can move on to the final bit.I
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right, chas. will do that. i'll do it later this afternoon as am making some planters at the mo for my daughters new house gareden..........needed a break.........it was/is driving me loco.
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Great, good luck. Take a picture of it set up if you can.
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Hi there Neil
Just to add a could of things to what Chas has already mentioned.
First of all, it would be prudent to prove that the actual transmitter & receiver are working 100% by one servo plugged into the receiver, plus your 4.8 volt power pack. This will prove that the receiver is working okay.
Next, have you got a main power pack of more than 7.4 volt so we know that it is fully charged?
Then, proceed as Chas has suggested :-)) .
I know it is heart breaking but, we will get there in the end.
John
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here we go, Chas, the two diferent sets of wiring with the esc's have been tested individually on both motor sercuits and nothing at all. no fuses blown on either wiring set
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hi john.........just tested on a servo with just the plug in 4 different positions with a 4.8v battery and all possitions work, but when i plug it in with the esc's also plugged in but without the 4.8 v pack, relying on the esc using BEC power from the main 7.2 v pack and they are fully charged, the servo won't work.
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Hi there Neil
I know it is heart breaking but, we will get there in the end.
John
Not heartbreaking John.......just very annoying that i can build a boat , just cant get it to work lol.........ITt's why i havent sailed a boat in 4 years cant be bothered with the electrics.so many nice models I have never sailed........thats sad. but determined to get this one working.
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hi there Neil
I had a good study of your pics and blew one or two of them up or should I say enlarged them %% so I could have a good look at the solder connections and also the way you have wired it up. I think you may have your wires mixed up, the wires you have from your main battery should be the wires to your motor.
The other pair of wires that you had on your motor originally should be to the battery.
Now, I am going to try and obtain a very clear picture of the layout of the wires I have - you could then compare with what you have. Hopefully that will be helpful.
John
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thanks John......all help much appreciated. :-))
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yep, according to that photo, i have got the two sets transposed.
however now looking at what Bob said, and whaT Roy said I now see that they contradicted each other, but I never noticed it.
so as the set up i have done doesn't work at all except on a servo, I will now slowly swap them around one at a time.........only thing wasted due to my stupidity is some tape, and time..........but it has been a good learning curve and will come in for when i wire up my little Atlantic 21 ribs.
more luck needed please lol.
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right guys...............first one done with my usual decent soldering with soft dolder...........much better with silver soldering with a brazing torch, but can do softly when needed lol
the outer black and red now transposed to the batteries, and using Deans conectors cannot confuse the two sets, where as the inner black and red wires are to the motors.
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where does 2 hours go..........at lerast all joints have been given their utmost attention....
I just hope it all works this time.
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This is now becoming a chore..............never had any trouble before with electronize escs and my set ups
and yet...........followed all instructions including taking the red lead out of one esc conectin, and 2 hours later..........all i get is one flashing light from the esc WITH the red lead still conected, and sod all else..........even the rudder servo wont work!
so then i connect the little 4.8v seperate battery pack i get a constant light on the esc that was not lighting up. and the esc that was flashing constantly now goes off until i move the right hand joy stick then it flashes in the horizontal movement of the stick.
but when i turn the tx off i still get a constant light on one esc and the esc with the red lead removed, a flashing light......and if i pull out the 4.8v pack the constant light on one esc goes out and the one withn the red lead removed the red light continues to flash merily away like christmas tree lights.
make of that what you will.................i am totally out of my deapth.
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Hi again niel, if you had the power going into the motor connections, I'm pretty sure you'll have blown the esc, no remedy I'm afraid. Perhaps it's time to mend them with new ones.
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hi there Neil
Sadly, I tend to agree with what has been said - accidentally you may have fried these speed controllers. Before condemning them to the bin though - there are a couple of things to try just to ensure that they are 'fried'.
Have you tested the motors without the speed controllers? straight off a battery. and do they work?
Do you still have the Mtroniks speed controller which came with the model? If so, connect one motor up to the speed controller without fuses - making sure you have the leads the right way. If you are unsure - the link I previously put on to the Mtroniks website will show you which leads are what.
Then, plug this speed controller into your receiver and does it work?
Then, once happy knowing that the motors and everything else works - you may be able to come back to the speed controller which blinks all the time. If it is blinking, have you tried this speed controller coupled up to a different motor/a smaller motor.?
Normally a solid red light indicates no signal from the RX.
The only thing I would really say - is - I am not a personal fan of these type of fuses being put in between the speed controller and motor because I have come across one or two in the past of this type which have a built in resistance.
John
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hi Neil
i know you are confused.com with electrics why dont you save yourself a load of greif and SIMPLY pop down here to sunny North Wales and ill strip everything down and sort it out for you whilst you wait and ill SHOW you how to do it properly
Stav
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hi there Neil
Sadly, I tend to agree with what has been said - accidentally you may have fried these speed controllers. Before condemning them to the bin though - there are a couple of things to try just to ensure that they are 'fried'.
Have you tested the motors without the speed controllers? straight off a battery. and do they work?
Do you still have the Mtroniks speed controller which came with the model? If so, connect one motor up to the speed controller without fuses - making sure you have the leads the right way. If you are unsure - the link I previously put on to the Mtroniks website will show you which leads are what.
Then, plug this speed controller into your receiver and does it work?
Then, once happy knowing that the motors and everything else works - you may be able to come back to the speed controller which blinks all the time. If it is blinking, have you tried this speed controller coupled up to a different motor/a smaller motor.?
Normally a solid red light indicates no signal from the RX.
The only thing I would really say - is - I am not a personal fan of these type of fuses being put in between the speed controller and motor because I have come across one or two in the past of this type which have a built in resistance.
John
first, thanks to chas for his help, appreciate it.
John
yes to questions 1 and 2 and it is affermative to both. I also have 2 brand new esc's of the same that i ordered before i found the second esc that i wired up, so those are a stand by, but as Stavros says, i am now officially known as confused.com ............really and truly am, so it looks as though i am goining on my summer holls so sunny north wales.............as tbh I am so fed up and p.....d off with my own ineptitude with it all that i just cant be bothered with it anymore.
but thank you for ALL your help guys ..........
cymru am byth
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hi Neil
i know you are confused.com with electrics why dont you save yourself a load of greif and SIMPLY pop down here to sunny North Wales and ill strip everything down and sort it out for you whilst you wait and ill SHOW you how to do it properly
Stav
I'll do that mate , but it will probably be a couple of weeks or so, as i am about to make some garden planters for my daughter and then take them down to her in Nottingham before autumn sets in as she wants to plant some autumn winter veggies. cheers.
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I'm glad you're getting help, I hate to see a nice model unused. I'll bet that once Stavros has shown you how, it'll all seem much easier.
Good on you Stav.
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Neil,
If you have inadvertently (and understandably) fried the ESCs you have as, seems likely, then if you happen to be feeling flush, an ACTion P94 might be the way to go instead of these convoluted Chinese cheapies which are enough to confuse anyone! I like to understand what is going into my boats and prefer to support British manufacturers if possible which is something I'm sure Dave Milbourn would entirely approve of. Yes it costs more, but less hassle and you get a proper wiring diagram and instructions and a solid local after sales service. We need to support our own manufacturers rather than go for the lowest price with poor instructions although I appreciate that some budgets make this the only option.
Making a decent model boat is a big investment of time and money and the cost of getting the propulsion setup right is relatively marginal in the overall scheme of things. Why skimp on the electronics when there are UK options available at a decent overall cost.
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/p94l-dual-esc-and-mixer-2-x-10-amp.html.html
Colin
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On another thread is not Neil selling a Fleet Tx with a mixer in the tx?
Roy
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On another thread is not Neil selling a Fleet Tx with a mixer in the tx?
Roy
Roy, not selling it...........its for donation to Cancer research..........and if someone offered a fiver it would go. as i have no idea how it works or anything tbh...........and its not the equipment that i'm having trouble with as i have 6 electronise esc's that work fine with the working 4 tx/rx sets [all futaba or hitec]...............its just these chinese esc's that are giving me stress..............but the space in the hull which someone built and left very little room to put what i already have working to get in is why i thought using the very small chinese esc's would be easy..............
whatta mistakaa to makaa
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Neil,
If you have inadvertently (and understandably) fried the ESCs you have as, seems likely, then if you happen to be feeling flush, an ACTion P94 might be the way to go instead of these convoluted Chinese cheapies which are enough to confuse anyone! I like to understand what is going into my boats and prefer to support British manufacturers if possible which is something I'm sure Dave Milbourn would entirely approve of. Yes it costs more, but less hassle and you get a proper wiring diagram and instructions and a solid local after sales service. We need to support our own manufacturers rather than go for the lowest price with poor instructions although I appreciate that some budgets make this the only option.
Making a decent model boat is a big investment of time and money and the cost of getting the propulsion setup right is relatively marginal in the overall scheme of things. Why skimp on the electronics when there are UK options available at a decent overall cost.
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/p94l-dual-esc-and-mixer-2-x-10-amp.html.html (https://www.componentshop.co.uk/p94l-dual-esc-and-mixer-2-x-10-amp.html.html)
Colin
You are correct in every point you say Colin, and I think, if I can't get my electronise esc's in to the spaces in the boat, I will go with Daves p94's, the 30 amp ones.
Thanks for the idea and prompt.........
Going to have a weekend off cutting some pallets up to make planters for my daughter and taking out my frustration on some wood and a new rip saw, and probably a knuckle or two. lol
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thanks for the confidence in me Chas, its a pity i dont have the same in myself lol. :-)) <:(