Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => BRUSHLESS Motors and Speed Controllers => Topic started by: KitS on January 21, 2025, 02:20:51 pm
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Having bought Dave Milbourn's lovely Huntsman prototype, I also bought a Hi-Tec transmitter that I thought should link with the Hi-Tec receiver already in the boat. Sadly that wasn't the case as they didn't want to talk to each other so I've replaced the Rx with one that does talk to the Tx.
Try as I might I can't get the motor ECU to have it's zero-throttle position to stack up with the Tx LH stick's mid position. It may be that the ECU doesn't go into reverse anyway, but I can't identify it to figure that out. Currently the motor is at zero throttle with the LH stick all the way back and at FULL throttle (and I DO mean full! :o ) all the way forward.
Here's some pics of the motor and both sides of the ECU, so hopefully someone can identify the combination and I can get the boat running.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7517/yQa04q.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6350/LwUDYf.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/589/M9UrKw.jpg)
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This ESC has dual running modes, forward only or forward and backwards, see specs here:
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/44883/s/30a-waterproof-brushless-motor-speed-controller-esc/category/768/
Sounds as if it is in the forward only mode.
If you contact Component Shop and tell them it is Dave's model I'm sure they will be happy to send you the operating instructions.
Alternatively, it looks like this is the same as the Hobbywing Sea King ESC
https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/products/seaking-30a-v3-esc?srsltid=AfmBOorv2oO5VtnOr6LnEkmy7NNlchKGKLMEB2XESam-a6O8VMMcck9g
There is a manual for this here:
https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/collections/seaking-v3-manual
Hope this helps,
Colin
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Thanks Colin, that looks very helpful.
:-))
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Ah, I wondered who'd bought Dave's Huntsman. I bought the Huntress to reunite with the other Huntress prototype I bought off him some years ago.
What Hi-Tec Tx have you got as it should communicate with the Rx OK? The first Huntress had a Hi-Tec Rx, being Dave's favoured equipment (and now mine) and I did the same, buying a Hi-Tec Tx and had no trouble binding them. Hi-Tec became my go to for Tx and Rx and it's a real shame they stopped manufacture. I have three Tx's now, different models and vintages, and fortunately was able to stock up on Rx's whilst I still could. I'm assuming the original Rx was a Minima?
Chris
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Yes, the original Rx was a Minima ST with two aerials. Realising that I had to use a HiTec TX with the AFTSS coding I bought one from ebay, the only chance to buy one they're not made any more. The one I got was an Optic 6 Sport, which has the AFTSS coding, but no matter what I did it wouldn't connect with the Minina ST Rx.
I fitted the Optic 6 Rx in the Huntsman and that connected right away, but the ECU won't respond as I'd like it to. It looks as if Dave had it setup for 'Forward Only' mode, and I'd prefer 'Forward & Reverse' but it doesn't respond as I'd hoped.
I downloaded the the manual of the similar system that Colin suggested, and the ECU doesn't work as that suggests, so I've emailed the Component Shop to see if they can help out.
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Do you mean Minima 6T Kit? I use those and 6E which are the same but the connectors are on the end. When I bought the first Huntress I bought the cheapest Tx being the Optic 5 but when I started building models I bought a Flash 8 as you can add multiple models and it has more adjustability.
When I bought the second Huntress I bought Dave's Optic 6 (non-Sport) which I haven't tried yet. All three of these Tx can use the Minima 6E and 6T but the Flash 8 can also use a 6S as well and I think Dave also had a computer radio as well in the Aurora 9 so perhaps your Rx only works with that?
Anyway, glad you have that part sorted. I doubt that Dave would have set the ESC up for forward only but as Colin says this appears to be the case now.
He is also spot on with saying the Leopard Hobby ESC is the same as the HobbyWing SeaKing. I ordered a Laopard Hobby one from The Component Shop and when it arrived it was a SeaKing! Was going to send it back but when comparing specs found they were the same and so kept it. I subsequently standardised on HobbyWing SeaKing and their non-watercooled the Quicrun and am very happy with them.
Note in The Component Shop blurb that a program card is available but the 30amp ESCs can't use one. This is a pity as its a doddle using one but I did manage to set my Quicrun up OK using the bleep method.
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It definitely says Minima ST on the Rx, but I don't know the range of Hi-Tec stuff to know the finer differences between models.
I contacted Component Shop and they've suggested I get the Program Card to change the setup of the ECU, which I've bought, and I'm expecting it tomorrow, the Post Office willing, that is.
I'll post updates as they occur hopefully.
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Overlapped when I was modifying my post. Note what I say about the program card! Component Shop spec says there is no programming port.
Minima ST is a new one on me and whilst Google threw up a reference to it on another forum it wasn't of any use. Sounds as though it's not compatible with your Tx though.
Can't even find it on the HiTec web-site for discontinued radio gear.
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How frustrating! The model obviously worked OK when Dave had it.
Colin
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All will be revealed tomorrow I expect.
I sent pics of the motor and the ECU to Component Shop and they recommended the Card, so if it won't work on the clearly marked 30 Amp ECU I shall be a more than a little upset.......................
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In the meantime here is a photo that Dave sent me of the two Huntress prototypes.
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Cor, what a wonderful pair they make. :-))
But I'll have to post a pic of mine now. :-)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4527/fEij16.jpg)
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A very nice threesome!
Have fun with it - when you get it going as you want. I've run the first one a few times, though it spends most of its time gracing the top of a unit, but haven't had chance to try the latest one yet. Must see if it works with the Optic 6 Tx.
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Well there's been some sort of progress, but not much. :((
The Programming box arrived this morning and after de-cyphering the instructions I connected it to the ECU and set it up as I wanted, with it in Forward/Reverse mode. Mind you, it said it was ALREADY in that mode anyway...........
Then I tried to get the Tx to operate the ECU but with zero success. The rudder servo operates just fine, but the ECU just bleeps its LED at me and sends out four tones, one after the other, then repeats itself ad nausiam.
So I went back to the Tx manual, which is MIND bogglingly complicated, and is only designed for aircraft, but using its 'Acro' setting should be applicable for boats too. But try as I might I CANNOT get the Tx to do what the manual says.
The problem would seem to be in setting the throttle end points but the manual says to set the throttle trim button to 0% in the menu and it will select the throttle channel setting itself. It doesn't......................
Does anyone have experience with these HiTec Optic 6 Sport Txs and know a trick to get the thing to do what it's told please?
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Further to this I did a couple of 'worth a try' tests by plugging the rudder servo into the throttle channel of the Rx, and the servo works perfectly off the Tx throttle stick, ie full forward gives full right rudder and full reverse gives full left rudder, so I tried the opposite trick.
Plugging the ECU into channel 1, the rudder output of the Rx, resulted in a couple of bleeps, a short pause and the motor went full throttle forward with the stick at neutral! Full left rudder on the stick dropped the motor to zero speed and full right stick raised the motor speed to something astronomical and the ECU flashed green LEDs at me, so I shut it off fast. <:(
What the devil is going on? I can't figure out which component of the system isn't working properly. {:-{
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That's frustrating Kit, though you may have been using stronger words!
It's been awhile since I set up my Txs so I need to reacquaint myself with what's what. The Optic 6 is quite similar to yours so I'll have a look at setting it up with the Huntress.
Interesting that you can infact use a program card! Where does it plug in?
Chris
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Interesting that you can infact use a program card! Where does it plug in?
The card has two sockets that take servo shaped plugs and you just plug in the lead that comes from the ECU and which normally goes to the Rx into one of them. The other socket's for a separate power supply if your ECU doesn't have a BEC, but mine has.
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Oh OK. Just checked the specs and indeed the Seaking 30a does have a program port whereas the non-watercooled Quicrun doesn't have one.
Whilst I do have some higher amp Seakings I don't water-cool my models. If I'd realised the 30amp Seakings could take a program card I would bought them especially as they are only about a pound different in price.
Anyway, not helping you!
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As long as the Tx is OK I'm thinking it's maybe a set-up thing?
With mine I have for the Rx the ESC going into CH1 and the rudder servo into CH3.
In the Tx I have CH1 for the throttle and CH3 for the rudder. Mode 4.
This is for my Flash 8, haven't looked at the Optic 6 yet.
As for your Rx that wouldn't play ball, I'm more sure it's one that worked with Dave's Aurora 9 Tx as I have a label in the Huntress saying Aurora 9 stuck to the Rx, in this case an Optima 7 that is OK with my Flash 8. Don't know about the Optic 6 as nothing in manual.
I've decided to use the Huntress with the Flash 8 as its tried and tested and I know how to set it up and I don't want to risk the Huntress with the Optic 6. I'll maybe try it with one of my yachts.
Have you got any other models and radio gear? If so it might be worth swapping the Rx and using with another Tx. What was the Rx that you got with the Optic 6 Sport?
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Your Rx is setup the exact opposite to mine, mine's got the rudder on Ch 1 and the ESC on Ch 3, Mode 2 according to the Tx manual. I'm not even sure that my Tx has a Mode 4.
It is the Rx that came with the Optic 6 Sport, yes.
I've got a fair number of other boats, and numerous other radio sets, back to 27 Mhz even, but I'm about 120 miles from them all at the moment, but the friends I'm staying with at the moment are also modellers so I maybe able to try some of their sets as well.
It's very odd that the swap tests I did showed that the Rx seems to be working properly, it's just that the ECU doesn't understand it.
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RC boat control used to be pretty simple. Where did it all go wrong? :((
Colin
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Indeed so, with a Bob's Board and a big DEAC it was difficult to go wrong. :-)
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Yes, those Bob's Boards worked surprisingly well if you had the right match with the motors.. I had a lot of success with them with my Isle of Wight ferry Shanklin back in the 80s.
Colin
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Still have a NIB (that's new in bag) example of it.
Regards Ian.
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Some progress on this problem, but in the wrong direction. :((
I got another Tx-Rx combination and hooked it up to the boat, and checked the rudder channel works correctly, but the ECU still does crazy things like running at full throttle after a slight pause after switch-on, no matter what the throttle setting.
I carefully set up the throttle end points so that zero throttle was at the 50% position, full forward was at the +100% and full reverse was at the -100% position, and it STILL went to full throttle on switch-on!
Moving the throttle caused a slight hiccup and then it went from zero speed with the throttle at -100% and full forward with the throttle at +100%, just as if it was programmed to be a 'Forward Only' ECU, so I checked it with the programming box, and that still insists it's a 'Forward-Reverse' ECU.
I don't believe it and I reckon the ECU is knackered, but I've no way of checking any further so I'll get back to the guys at Component Shop and see if they can test it for me.
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Certainly sounds like it as the ESC and the motor are the only things left in the equation.
You don't have another one you can try?
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No, this is the first boat I've ever had with a brushless motor and ESC so it's all new stuff to me.
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Never thought of that. They're great when they work as they should. You'll get to the bottom of it.
Chris
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Wonder, if with Dave's expertise and knowledge of the elecrtonickery, he only intended it to go forwards?
Regards Ian
Know any good Mediums?
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Wonder, if with Dave's expertise and knowledge of the elecrtonickery, he only intended it to go forwards?
No, the ESC was recommended for the SLEC kit version and mention that the ESC is forward & reverse,
Just had a rummage in my workshop and actually found the program card but I never needed to use it as the defaults (including F/R) were OK. My radio for the model was a cheap Saturn 4ch set from Howes. It worked out of the box as i recall.
My later Swordsman kit has the same ESC and the radio is Specktrum TX and a generic 'Lemon' RX. Again no problems.
I use left stick for throttle and right stick for rudder.
It does suggest there may be something amiss with the ESC.
Colin
ps: Have you used the programming card to set everything back to the defaults? (black boxes on the instructions)?
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Sorry, I didn't realize we were discussing recommendations, I though Daves boat came with the ESC and motor already installed :embarrassed:
Regards Ian.
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It did come with the ESC Ian, KitS is having problems getting it to work.
I had the same ESC in both my Faireys which worked fine.
Colin
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SUCCESS! :-))
I sent the ECU back to Component Shop and asked them to have a look at it to see if I actually needed to replace it. They re-programmed it properly and it came back today.
I've put it all back in the Huntsman and it works a treat! :-) :-)) Great work on the Shop's part.
We could be trialling the boat at Wicksteed Park tomorrow, if the weather's warm enough.
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Post photos!
Colin
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Post photos!
Hehehe, I plan to, it'll be a momentous event for me.
The weather's too inclement for my partner so we're staying in the warm today.
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Good news Kit.
Chris
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We never did take the Huntsman to Wicksteed Park last week as the weather was far too chilly, but I trekked back home earlier this week and I've just tested the Huntsman out on Lydney Lake, and does she ever GO! :-))
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3853/qqhNix.jpg)
I was a trifle put out finding that the crazy transmitter had reversed the rudder control for some obscure reason, so sailing her took some SERIOUS thought, plus a couple of geese decided to investigate what the noisy foreigner was on THEIR water.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7281/R0ry4i.jpg)
They decided they'd go and check on the other end of the lake once I opened the throttle though! The Huntsman doesn't hang about, running about 3-4 times as fast as it's going in this pic, and planes superbly, looking JUST like the real thing.
She took on a little water in the bilges and I'm not quite sure where it's coming in yet, but a floatation test in the bath may sort that out.
I'm a very happy bunny now. :-)
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Looking good Kit, it's nice to se it on the water again.
It is possible you might be getting a bit of water up the prop tube. Check that there is only a tiny amount of play in he shaft. I assume there is a thrust washer between the locknut and the end of the tube.
Another possibility is that when you slow down the following wave climbs up the transom and a few drops find their way over the low coaming along the back of the hull aperture.
Colin
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I'll have a look there Colin, but the water was in two areas of the hull, separated by a bulkhead. One area could have been due to a prop shaft leak, but I'm not so sure about the other one.
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See my edit above.Where was the second leak?
Colin
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Yes, getting pooped can always be a problem with a fast boat. I didn't slow down fast enough for that, been had like that before, even in a full size boat!
The 2nd leak was in the battery/receiver bay, just aft of the motor bay.
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In that case maybe the joint through the keel where the shaft passes through has opened up a bit causing seepage. When building this boat (and on the subsequent kit) the proptube was fitted after glassing over the hull so there could be a weak point maybe opened up by vibration. Dave epoxied the tube in.
If the hull itself is leaking anywhere there should be some evidence of cracking on the outside.
Colin
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False alarm on the 'leak' 'cos there isn't one.
I just held an extended session in the test tank (= bath..............) running the motor in forward and reverse, and not a drop to be seen. I reckon it must have been a sharp stop pooped it a bit, and I'll try and not to do that in future.
As it's forecasting snow here later :(( test sailing at Wicksteed probably isn't a good idea, but we may give it a go there at the weekend.
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Yes, because of the design of the bow and the narrowness of the hull the Huntsman 31 is the one Fairey that dips the most when coming off the throttle.