The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on March 18, 2025, 02:25:52 pm
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 18, 2025, 02:25:52 pm
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: SailorGreg on March 26, 2025, 12:56:35 pm
I guess you already realise that some shots are partially out of frame, but I wouldn't bother to reshoot. Once you get to the actual build, then it matters a bit more that we can see what you are up to. For this one, leave it as is. Your message is clear (already started, poor quality build, all a bit messy, but mostly still in good condition) so move on to the intersting bits!
Greg
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 26, 2025, 05:52:27 pm
Thanks for that Greg :-))
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: warspite on March 26, 2025, 07:49:13 pm
Not watched but the phrase - poor quality build, what our unfinishing unsung hero martin !!! %)
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: SteamboatPhil on March 26, 2025, 08:16:08 pm
So what happened to paint before assembly, stick part one to part 2, stick parts to number 3 admire your finished model {-) {-)
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: warspite on March 27, 2025, 02:09:39 pm
in martins case - thats another part finished model done - WHAT :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Backerther on March 28, 2025, 05:22:53 am
Hi Martin, Judging from the video, I think you got a very well partially built kit this time and do think it's worth completing to the end.! :-)) I also enjoyed a similar kit to build and sail as seen below. She is an excellent model ship for RC operation.!!! :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Bunkerbarge on March 29, 2025, 10:27:11 am
The kit is polystyrene so any cement that dissolves the surface of the polystyrene surface and allows the two sides to fuse together is best. Consequently any polystyrene solvent glue would do the job such as Revel Contacta, Plastic Magic or Tamiya or Humbrol liquid cement. The trouble with such a big joint is that liquid cement evaporates very quickly so the start of the joint will have dried out before you put the two halves together.
If I was doing it I would lay a generous bead of good old thick polystyrene cement along the joint, put the two halves together with masking tape and leave it at least 24 hrs. Then glue flat scraps of polystyrene (Plasticard) along the inside of the joint with more generous amounts of polystyrene cement. Give it a few days to completely harden then fill it with water and sit it on its stand for an hour or so with some kitchen roll beneath it. I don't think for a minute that you will have a leak if you put a good bead of glue along the joint.
The trouble with all epoxy type glues is that they do not dissolve the surface of the plastic. They grab extremely well but they still only sit on the surface. The best joint is one where the surface is dissolved and fused completely into a totally homogeneous joint.
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 29, 2025, 12:06:08 pm
Fully agree with BB, especially re bridging the inside of the joint with plasticard which adds a bit of extra strength as well.
Colin
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: warspite on March 29, 2025, 01:19:40 pm
It's what I did in 1982, as far as I know she still is leakproof (it's been year since she was on water), I know last time I checked, the area around the propshaft is still soft from using epoxy (it's the area just above the prop as it heads up to the stern), I used the clear plastic with copious amount of plastic cement to create a connection between both sides of the front and back.
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Backerther on March 29, 2025, 01:25:19 pm
In my case, I used CA(low viscosity) and epoxy for assemblies of hull. In the first place, I used CA along the joints and a few hours later applied epoxy to add an extra strength for RC operation. This epoxy may have reinforced the hull and made the hull stiffer. :-)) Beforehand, intensive washing of the hull must be done to eliminate the oily ingredient on the surface of the hull by which much better bond is expected. O0 Seeing is believing and I never tell a lie about the combination of CA and epoxy.!!! %% %% But poor CA and epoxy will invite a poor result. {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: warspite on March 29, 2025, 01:30:36 pm
will have to get access to mine and show you what I did O0
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 29, 2025, 02:01:18 pm
Yes, agree with good old Polystyrene cement..... be generous but not too generous!
Just thought there might be a modern polystyrene epoxy or builder's adhesive around these days .......
Quite like the idea of Slow Zap .... but not sure if I'm that brave!
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: warspite on March 29, 2025, 02:45:02 pm
Heres mine, a picture of that 'soft' area just above the prop shaft (the rudder is plasticard stuck to a brass off the shelf) You cannot see the joint as in the past I seemed to have painted the inside.
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 29, 2025, 04:23:34 pm
Cleaning up these hull segments is a slow, messy & tedious job .... No surprise there then!
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Circlip on March 29, 2025, 05:09:42 pm
Bit of a giveaway in the name, POLYSTYRENE CEMENT O0
Regards Ian.
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 29, 2025, 06:30:58 pm
Using polystyrene cement which literally welds the surfaces together is a no brainer for plastic models. Any other adhesive cannot match it by definition. Cyano and Epoxy just don't come close as BB points out. Just basic chemistry really. Anything else is just sticking plaster.
Colin
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: KitS on March 29, 2025, 06:41:55 pm
With all of my plastic modelling, not just boats, but railway models and aeroplane kits too, I lay on a bead of Revell Contacta, easy to do with their needle like applicator, put the parts together and then run over the joint with a brushful, or brushesful in the plural, of a suitable liquid cement, Humbrol or De Luxe. That re-energises the Contacta if it's dried out a little and makes a good joint. Clamping the parts together with tape, or sash clamps in the case of a Flower Class corvette (!), helps a lot.
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 29, 2025, 10:17:03 pm
I would to prefer to use cement as opposed to liquid, but ....
1. they are big complex joints
2. if I wick in liquid you don't actually know where it's actually holding, ( plus, high chance of 'run-out' thus marring the surfaces )
3. cement goes 'off' really quickly, so very little working time, ( plus, high chance of 'squeeze-out' t, again blemishing the surface )
Title: Re: Martin's Latest Projects .... fads, whimsy and distractions!
Post by: Bunkerbarge on March 29, 2025, 10:33:43 pm
You want just a little bit of "Squeeze out". That way you know the joint is completely closed and sealed and does not need any messing around with filler afterwards. Just ensure you give the glue plenty of time to thoroughly harden, i.e. a few days, before smoothing it down. Then you should have an invisible joint for minimum effort. Poly cement will not dry out in the time you apply it to the corvette hull as long as you set your stall out and have everything to hand. Have the masking tape ready cut into pieces on the edge of the workbench and any clamps in front of you. It is always worth doing a dry run first so you know exactly what you are going to need during the process and exactly where you want to put clamps and tape. Then, when you apply the glue, there are no surprises and no delays while you try to find something you need. I would also do either side, let them thoroughly harden for a few days, clean up the midships joints and then you can ensure that the joining of the port and starboard sides can have a perfectly matching joint because you can clean up either side as a single piece.
I also notice that you have lost the locating lugs in the dismantling process so joining the two sides won't be quite as controlled. To help with this glue some small tabs of scrap plasticard on the inside face of one of the sides a day or so before joining the two halves so that they overhang the joint. These tabs will then locate the two parts when they are put together making aligning everything a lot easier.
Good old cement in a tube is probably the slowest polystyrene glue to set so will give you the best playing time.
Title: Re: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 29, 2025, 10:42:41 pm
Got quite a few hours in today, clean up nearly complete!
A few areas still to do, like the glue edges. I want all the Matt flat, to give the poly cement the best possible chance to grab.
I think I can see why the kit was completed, the "glue" used, must have stated to come apart very early on as some just peeled right off with very little effort. Also some sprue edges were not trimmed at all, the glue surfaces not 'keyed' at all & looks like glass fibre reinforcement matting didn't take at all, leaving this mess to clean up, leaving him pondering what to do next and how to clean up the mess .... or leave it to another time ..... or someone else to clean up!
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Backerther on March 30, 2025, 03:42:42 am
Just at a glance, the hull seems well aligned.. O0 If so and if I were you, I would apply a thin CA all along the joint lines inside the hull after intensive masking of the joints outside the hull. Hold the hull as it is for a couple of hours. The rest is to apply epoxy (cheap ones do not work {-) ) and wait another 24h to get maximum bond and stiffness for RC model. It's really no brainer and secure. It's my own style of assembly based upon my successful experience of this corvette whose hull is built with CA and epoxy, as in the video below. !!! :-)) :-)) :-)) Proven by repeated lake-sailing tests causing no problems at all. :-)) But this is not an only way, needless to say. How to build a model ship is entirely dependent upon individual idea through his thought and experience. An undeniable fact/example surpasses any theories even in this case. O0 O0
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: KitS on March 30, 2025, 01:46:47 pm
Which glue did you use for it in the end?
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 30, 2025, 05:00:42 pm
It's Sunday ..... not got that far yet KitS! ok2
NB: UHU POR or Hart?
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 30, 2025, 06:36:15 pm
Use of adhesives was something I covered in my two part article for Model Boats on modelling materials recently - shame nobody seems to read the magazine... I did include some nice photos too.
One of the key points, and it's not something I made up, is that it is almost invariably better to use a glue designed for the job in hand. It your are sticking wood then use a a wood glue, if you are sticking polystyrene use a liquid poly or polystyrene cement as mentioned above by BB. If sticking different materials then use the glue which matches both of them. Other glues will of course work but they won't work as well although they may work adequately for your purpose. It's no different to using the right tool for the job. You can bash a small nail in with a club hammer but a cross pin will be easier and more accurate.
It's not just about sticking power either. Epoxy and wood glue (and others) can be used to stick wood but the PVA and Aliphatic types are water clean up so any excess can simply be wiped away. Epoxy is messier to use. This can make all the difference if you are adding planking that is meant to be seen and take varnish. Cyano and epoxy leave marks.
BB makes a very good point about epoxy in his post in that it will only stick to plastic if the surface is abraded - there is not true bond as when you use a polystyrene adhesive which actually welds the two surfaces together and you can't get better than that.
There are some useful contact adhesives in tubes with different formulations but beware of using them with styrene such as adding 'plating' to a GRP hull for example, as some of them will eat into the plastic after it is in place and soften it without you realising it.
Something else which affects many of us is the effect of volatiles in the adhesives which can cause respiratory or skin problems. This is particularly true of cyano (even the odourless type), liquid poly and similar bottle adhesives such as acetone plus of course epoxy and polystyrene resin. Epoxy is low odour but can still cause skin problems. The water based and acrylic glues are generally much nicer to use and don't have these side effects. Deluxe SuperPhatic is an excellnt substitute for those allergic to cyana for many appmications where one surface is porous and the other hard such as wood to plastic.
Often overlooked is double sided tape which was recommended by ex member Bryan Young. He sent me some many years ago and I am still using it along with some varieties. It often comes in very handy as it is essentially a thin film of instant contact adhesive whichcan be placed very accurately and gives a very strong bond between any smooth surfaces. I use it to attach surface detail to my scale models.
Colin
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Bunkerbarge on March 30, 2025, 07:42:01 pm
What is particularly interesting with this project is that Martin would never have been able to dismantle the hull and he would never have been able to scrape the old glue off if the correct glue had been used in the first place. I guess he should consider himself lucky that the original builder used the wrong glue!
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Colin Bishop on March 30, 2025, 08:46:53 pm
Yes indeed, it certainly looks like the hull was not stuck together very well originally. If polystyrene adhesive was used it would never have come apart so easily so not a very good original joint.
Colin
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 30, 2025, 10:48:29 pm
What is particularly interesting with this project is that Martin would never have been able to dismantle the hull and he would never have been able to scrape the old glue off if the correct glue had been used in the first place. I guess he should consider himself lucky that the original builder used the wrong glue!
:-))
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 30, 2025, 10:58:22 pm
A few detail shots after the clean-up.... still a few spots to clean up....
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on March 31, 2025, 06:15:47 am
Part 2 - https://youtu.be/aPWaBPOddhA (https://youtu.be/aPWaBPOddhA)
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Backerther on March 31, 2025, 08:17:59 am
It seems that you have endured hard and long time to clean up the hull by which the hull looks neat enough to get into next step.!! Especially joint parts and lines of each half have been roughed well suitable to adhere by intensive scraping works. O0 :-)) An effort never betrays its result.!!! O0 %% :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: JimG on March 31, 2025, 11:48:08 am
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: KitS on May 09, 2025, 02:21:56 pm
Almost any styrene sheet will bond to Matchbox/Revell plastic, even Hobbycraft sell it, albeit not in too wide a range of thicknesses.
There's equally numerous fillers available, but everyone has their own faves. Humbrol, Revell, DeLuxe to name but a few. Mine is Presto, but no-one sells it in the UK these days, and I have a friend in Germany sends me some when I need more.
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: JimG on May 09, 2025, 08:08:31 pm
I would make some paste with styrene scrap and liquid styrene glue. Dissolve the styrene in the glue till you get a thick paste and add that to the inside of the joint. It does take a few days to fully dry out but will both seal and strengthen the joint. The moulded hull sections are thick enough to take this but don't try it with thinner styrene sections as it can dissolve it's way through them. Jim
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on May 16, 2025, 04:47:32 pm
Matchbox / Revell Corvette Part 4 - Stuck on you
https://youtu.be/bHVXInX9sZw?si=NKT96EJ5NegFR9Vx
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: SteamboatPhil on May 16, 2025, 09:50:32 pm
Love it :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on May 17, 2025, 10:08:59 pm
Matchbox / Revell Corvette Part 5 - Watching paint Dry Hull prep and spraying the primer
https://youtu.be/MwHjmE7z56Q?si=5greo0pUcCmrrlgH
Title: Re: Martin's 2nd Matchbox Corvette
Post by: Martin (Admin) on May 18, 2025, 08:45:50 pm
I pondered this all week, decided that the hull centre join did need some reinforcing. I didn't any styrene sheet on hand, so bought some ribbon and used that with the Screwfix Mitre glue .... got it done, not pretty but functional. {-)
I pondered this all week, decided that the hull centre join did need some reinforcing. I didn't any styrene sheet on hand, so bought some ribbon and used that with the Screwfix Mitre glue .... got it done, not pretty but functional. {-)
In my case, I simply applied two-part epoxy without any hesitation...from my experience of building the model boats. O0 The pics below were taken only 4 years ago, but the application of the adhesive had been done preceding 14 years before. And she is still now serviceable as a RC runnable boat keeping a sailing scale realism even on the rough waters. :embarrassed: %% :-))