Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: wideawake on December 06, 2007, 09:06:16 am
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Hi folks
Can anyone recommend a cheap and cheerful 2D CAD program. I'm looking for something simple to understand which I can use for things like frame templates and the like. I've downloaded a trial copy (non-printing) of Qcad but would be interested in other people's views.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi Wideawake,
I have very limited experience of such programs but in the past I have used Turbo-CAD and Auto-CAD LT both of which were quite similar but both of which seemed to require a degree to know how to use.
It, as always, depends on what you want it for but at the level I have needed CAD I have found Visio to be around my level. It is very template based and most of what you do is made up of pre-drawn modules that you put together into a drawing or an assembly which you can then keep as a new template.
Have a Google for Visio and see what you come up with.
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Wideawake
The Qcad @ 24 Euro seems value for money.
Did I read that price right?
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Hello guy,
your question seems fine to me, good English, and in the correct place.
I too need a suitable program but have no experience with these at all. I am considering downloading a freeware program from http://freewarehome.com/ . In the drawing/cad menu is a program called DELFTship supposedly purpose made for the ship industry. The description says it will do hull forms etc.
Perhaps someone out there has already tried this program and will tell us what it's like, and if the site is safe to download from.
Chas
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I have looked at DELFT, and it is 3D and for my little brian, well frankly a bit to much work for me.
I too am looking for a (free if possible) 2D CAD application. So will follow this thread with interest.
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I have looked at DELFT, and it is 3D and for my little brian, well frankly a bit to much work for me.
I too am looking for a (free if possible) 2D CAD application. So will follow this thread with interest.
Tigertiger, I second the motion - I want to scale up a hull I have and believe a 2D CAD app would do the job O0 O0 O0
Martin Doon Under
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Wideawake
The Qcad @ 24 Euro seems value for money.
Did I read that price right?
Yes. I thought it looked cheap enough, given I won't use it that often, but was just using the forum to check that someone else didn't know a better prospect.
Cheers
Guy
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Ok TigerTiger,
you're right. I downloaded the Deft program and was lost immediately. My problem is that I don't even understand the terminology. I think my human brain only has 1 meg of memory!!
There are other 2d cad programs on the freeware site but as I don't know what the descriptions are saying it needs someone who's clever with these things to say what, if anything is good.
Chas
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My son suggested having a look at :
http://www.cadlogic.com/products/draftit/
I understand there is a free version and also enhanced versions which you can buy.
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I only just thought to search the forum for cad and came up with this link from a year ago.
www.free2design.org It seem to have been well received. Would anyone like to comment on learning to use it?
Chas
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I downloaded a program called TurboCAD (Learning Edition) for free. Haven't used it yet, but it looks the part.
http://www.imsidesign.com/
Rick
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Topic cleaned up - admin. O0
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http://www.free2design.org/
I use this one at home, fairly simple to use and it is cheap (FREE). You can do 3D drawings in it but for frames and side elevations of ships it is pretty good, and easier to use than AutoCad. It will open AutoCad drawings so you get the best of both worlds
Brian
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I have used both free2design and delft.
Free 2 design is good and easy to use, delft takes a bit of work, but the results from the free edition are great - I am designing my next project on it.
Ian
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I have looked at DELFT, and it is 3D and for my little brian, well frankly a bit to much work for me.
I too am looking for a (free if possible) 2D CAD application. So will follow this thread with interest.
Who is your little brian? Anyhow, there are many 3D drawing progs available for free on the net. But they (at least all the ones I have looked at) all seem to require a bit more than a basic knowledge. As a very good "starter" may I suggest Google "Sketch-Up". Free and easily downloaded. Many of the forum members will have discovered this , but for those who have not then I would say DO IT and play and enjoy. You can even design your own ship both externally and internally.....and then walk around inside the cabins ...and furnish the cabins etc. One of the best programmes you will ever see. BY.
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I use Google sketchup for my designing and it's great! If you use the turtorials then you can pick up the basics in minutes. I have been using it for almost a year and can design most things. Including boats and yatchs. The hard bit for these is the hull but google have a online 'warehouse' full of other peoples designs and there are many hulls on there to help you start.
The only downfall is that it is not in 2d and 3d, at the moment. But as Bryan said its free so just have a play. ;D
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I might have a look at that . Following the previous messages I downloaded free2design to compare it with Qcad. I have to say tha, ATM, I'm not finding it easy to get to grips with. Probably just me as I didn't find Qcad intuitive either :-(
opertaions suspended 'til after Christmas now due to card writing duties etc!
Cheers
Guy
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I Downladed google sketch up for free.
Teh tutorial vedeos are really easy to follow. And being on teh puter you can flop between the windows and frezze the video to follow step by step.
Easy peasy. Even ofr a numptie like me
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Glad to be of service Tiger Tiger. I began to learn Sketch-up by doing a model of my house...interior and exterior, plus furnishings etc. and was chuffed about the intuitive nature of the program. It can be made to draw anything to 1/16th of an inch accuracy...or just be used as a toy. The "pull and stretch" engine makes doing compound curves pretty easy. I haven't used it for a while but this thread has made me think about using it again to see if I can get an electronic "Havelock". Worth a try anyway. Cheers.BY.
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Brian, I too, have found Sketchup easy and the results VERY good. I've even been using it at work (at a university) and I showed our Estates guys a fully rotating 3D model of one of our theatres with all the modifications we wanted and then gave them a dimensioned 2D full colour jpeg printout - they were amazed! (I've still got to get Autocad - and learn to use it - as they want "proper" drawings that THEY can modify) ::)
On the hull design side, I have had no luck with compound curves, and only a little success with single curves. I use the "follow me" tool, which is quite useful but seems to have a mind of it's own sometimes. Maybe I'm not using it correctly. Any tips?
Danny
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Brian, I too, have found Sketchup easy and the results VERY good. I've even been using it at work (at a university) and I showed our Estates guys a fully rotating 3D model of one of our theatres with all the modifications we wanted and then gave them a dimensioned 2D full colour jpeg printout - they were amazed! (I've still got to get Autocad - and learn to use it - as they want "proper" drawings that THEY can modify) ::)
On the hull design side, I have had no luck with compound curves, and only a little success with single curves. I use the "follow me" tool, which is quite useful but seems to have a mind of it's own sometimes. Maybe I'm not using it correctly. Any tips?
Danny
Not yet, but I am still learning as well...if I have tips then I will post....you too? Let us promote this program!
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Just thinking aloud, but is a CAD package really what most modellers need? It seems to me that CAD is OK for designing new things, but for replicating a ship it's not ideal. For example I'd personally like a tool that lets me scan in some drawings like frame outlines, create symmetrical copies, scale them, reduce their outline by my planking thickness, draw in keel slots, stringer notches and assorted holes, and then let me print them. Or would this be making it too easy? I doubt such a program exists, I'm merely thinking/dreaming aloud. What do others think?
Regards,
Grant.
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I think you are trying to re-invent pencil and paper! Which comes first...the idea or the sketch (drawing)? Unless you wish to pay £4000 plus for a "proper" design program (do cars with it as well) then you are better off with the old pencil and paper...and that doesn't take you another 10 years of you life learning how to use it. But follow the thread on Sketch-Up and play.
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Granti, you have just described my methodology for converting existing drawings to constructional plans.
1. Obtain jpg files or scan in existing drawings.
2. Using Photoshop, scale jpgs to required size
3. Import into drawing package - I use Micrografx Designer, but there are cheaper ones (I didn't buy it, but I did retire from a fully-equiped office!!!)
4. Using layers, etc, trace the required components anddesign your model.
5. Print out components, glue to wood, cut out and start building!
Rick
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Grantl
Any good drawing office will have a CAD package good enough to convert 'paper to CAD' and 'CAD to paper'
And there services can be boght.
But for me anyway, I don't have the money to buy such software.
And such powerful products do take a lot of learning.
The learning is the big issue for me.
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I've used Turbocad since v2.0 (in about 1993) and purchased my current V12 for £30 from Paul Tracey at Avanquest [email protected] (http://[email protected]) at the Leamington ME show recently. I've no connection with Paul but anyone from the cad industry who turns up at a model show deserves our support in my view! An important consideration for me is that it will scale jpg scans to precise measured sizes for tracing as described above. Turbocad takes a little learning but it's an investment of time that may be worthwhile.
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I was thinking not so much of reinventing the wheel as repackaging it for ease of use, I had in mind a piece of software that could take a person through the steps I described in a simple way. (A kind of 'Frame Wizard') so that the user doesn't have to learn a CAD package to turn a frame drawing into a set of frame templates. (I'm a database designer/programmer and very lazy when it comes to repetitive tasks) So it should be a real follow your nose kind of program.
I have to learn a new programming language this month so I need a Christmas project.
Regards,
Grant.
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I was thinking not so much of reinventing the wheel as repackaging it for ease of use, I had in mind a piece of software that could take a person through the steps I described in a simple way. (A kind of 'Frame Wizard') so that the user doesn't have to learn a CAD package to turn a frame drawing into a set of frame templates. (I'm a database designer/programmer and very lazy when it comes to repetitive tasks) So it should be a real follow your nose kind of program.
I have to learn a new programming language this month so I need a Christmas project.
Regards,
Grant.
I think that that is a great idea. A program without all the gobbleygook would be a godsend and also be a good intro the more complicated programs. Of course, the majority of the CAD progs have been developed by professionals for professionals who understand these things. It is only recently that us amateurs have began to play with them..disastrously in most cases. Shove it back in the box and do it all another way. Pity really.
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The only problem with simple programmes is there will always be "yes but can it do this" Turbocad and Autocad LT are simplistic versions of Autocad but still take some learning. I was unconvinced at the skills required to even drive lines on a crash course in Autocad after drawing pictures for a living the longhand way for over twenty years, but after the first two or three days I was a total convert, BUT I was going to be using it FULL time, and in finding how to draw aerofoils and scaling sizes - purely for research of course, I then realised how much time one spends on ORIGINAL design. About the same time a dedicated aerofoil programme hit the shelves and it wasn't necessary to know about drawing sizes or tile space or the miryad of extra bits of information needed to draw a full set of ribs at the desired size. I know it's possible to "Banner" print for long A4 wide sections but how many of us do? I can still manage to loose scans in the machine at times, bit like a black hole, there in there somewhere, but now we've got used to some of the drawing systems I don't think it's going to be too long for another all change due to the vast cost reduction in "Digitising Tablets", plug in and draw with a stylus,scale and manipulate and print. Only trouble is, like Windows, you just get used to using 95 and then uncle bill changes it.
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Operations restarted after Christmas! I'm still finding free2design difficult to understand. Qcad is a bit better and best of all I got a a copy of CAD for model engineers by D A G Brown, No 29 in the workshop practice series of which I have many other titles already. He uses a program called Generic CADD (expensive by my standards) in his examples but the book seems fairly applicable to Qcad and presumably most other programs. It's led me to two conclusions. 1) that I can now draw (or rather CAD) a mean 8BA nut and 2) that I suspect it may be less useful than I hoped for doing things like templates for cutting frames and other bits for the barge.
However I shall press on. It may be that the more familiar I get with it the more useful it'll become. I think I shall invest in the paid-for version of Qcad so that i can print things.
Happy New Year
Cheers
Guy
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For those of you that want to learn to CAD..
Check out your local Adult Education classes.. I did a CAD course way back in the 90's and that gave me a great grounding in CAD and computing