Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on May 22, 2007, 09:43:38 pm
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The thread that follows started off as a question regarding a particular steam engine manufacturer that degenerated into inappropriate arguments.
The thread has been modified to remove the names of the manufacturers concerned and to enable the usefull legal advice and links to remain as a resource for anyone having issues with a vendor or manufacturer.
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Hi just thought i'd say after initial eagerness to get my model finished i visited the mayhem weekend where i thought i'd be able to find out alot more info and maybe speak to some helpfull people but found the complete opposite i tried asking about my plant but no one was much interested i basicly got the impression that because it's not a chedder we're not interested and people screwed there faces up when i mentioned maxwell hemmens. i did meet a alot of helpfull people but on other matters but very dissapointed on the steam front this is the first time i've been on the forum since now i've put the plant away again i'm going to building sail from now on a much more friendly bunch.
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Hi just thought i'd say after initial eagerness to get my model finished i visited the mayhem weekend where i thought i'd be able to find out alot more info and maybe speak to some helpfull people but found the complete opposite i tried asking about my plant but no one was much interested i basicly got the impression that because it's not a chedder we're not interested and people screwed there faces up when i mentioned maxwell hemmens. i did meet a alot of helpfull people but on other matters but very dissapointed on the steam front this is the first time i've been on the forum since now i've put the plant away again i'm going to building sail from now on a much more friendly bunch.
bbdave, obviously many of us would be dissapointed to hear of your circumstances and Ithink it is a great shame that you went to an event hoping for guidance and didn't get what you were after. It is wrong thought to think that all modellers involved with the steam world are the same, you may well find the same response to questions regarding sailing models at another event so to me the problem lies with the individuals who did not help rather than the area of modelling. My club consists of sail members, steam model members as well as fast electrics and scale and we all strive to help new comers wherever possible.
Giving up on steam models as a result of one bad experience is a great shame and you are going to miss out on one of the most rewarding aspects of model boating so I would hang in there and keep trying to find the answers to your questions. When I first started playing with steam I felt a bit on my own but eventually I worked things out for myself and developed some contacts who had the time and patience to help me out.
As it happens my own plant is a Hemmens one and whereas some aspects have not been perfect, I have had some very sucessfull trials with the model and I am very confident the the plant will dork well in my model for many years to come.
No matter which engine you talk about you will always find people prepared to critisise, unfortunately all to frequently as a result of self inflicted issues caused by inexperienced modellers, but you will also always have to look around until you find people who are experienced enought to discus your own plant objectively and honestly.
My Richmond engine had one significant flaw which I have since resolved myself but, from what I can see of your Max II you shouldn't have the same issue as it is built differently. Having said that the Richmond is an extreemly powerfull little engine and is very compact and lightweight for it's power making it suitable for a lot of model installations.
If you have any questions please feel free to post them and I'm sure there will be someone here who can help.
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Hi thanks for the encouragment BB i have been unable to get on the net for a while due to major pc problems but now back on the steam project is just on backburner for now excuse the pun as i'm in the process of building a sailing model so should get round to it soon.
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Any questions do not hestitate to ask.
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Hi
I purchased a Marine Steam plant in 2006. When the plant arrived I put it on bench test as instructed. It failed measurably, the boiler was incapable of supplying enough steam to the engine, the gas cylinder had a leak ( very dangerase) the engine itself leaked very badly.
I was told that it had been tested??? I returned the unit for repair only to have it sent back in the same order. So I complained and the unit went back to the manufacturer again, I still have not had it returned. I asked for my money back. I was told to go away but not in those words.
I still have not had my money or my engine returned. I thought I would take out a county court action to retrieve my good or money but apparently this particular manufacturer has had many court actions against him and never pays up. That is probably the reason for the name change.
Can anyone suggest how I can get my money back please?
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First of all you need to write him a letter, stating exactly what your complaint is and what you expect him to do about it.
Include a reasonable time frame of say two weeks and send it recorded delivery. He has to sign for it then and cannot say that he has not recieved it. After the two weeks is up you may have to send another one stipulating an ultimatum and a deadline. Once again sent it recorded.
If he fails to rerspond to these you can then ask your Office of Fair Trading to become involved on your behalf or you could go straight to a small claims court. This will cost you to persue and may not prove to be cost effective.
You may well recieve your engine back (the most likely direction this will take), once again in the same condition, in which case you will then need to obtain a written report from a "Expert" third party. I would suggest an alternative steam engine manufacturer would be a good place to start. They will have to produce a written report of the condition of the engine, listing it's faults, and stating that it is not fit for the purpose for which it was sold. Pay by cheque or credit card for this report and keep the invoice and the reciept. Do not get one done by a friend or by someone who has no credibility to write the report.
All this is time consuming and most things are stacked against you but persevere and you might get a satisfactory conclusion.
There are also ways around any of the faults that you may find with a steam plant but you must also be aware that any steam plant is going to require a degree of input from the owner as regards maintenance and modifications.
Non of them will run perfectly from the box, you will have to run them in carefully first and make sure that any leaks are dealt with. There is a fault with some particular engines in so far as they leak badly at the control valve disc face which can be modified but you need access to the right machining facilities.
Let us know how you get on as we will be able to offer help and advice along the way.
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Thank you so much Bunkerbarge for your advice.
At the time of the problem (2006) I did write to the manufacturer twice (with recorded delivery)as recommended by my solicitor.
His reply I am afraid was not printable.
So I decided to pursue my problem through the small claims court as you suggest. Before I did this I ran a check to see if he would be likely to pay up. The form showed me, that would be highly unlikely!!
I am down £800.00 plus costs at the moment.
I would like to have MY engine plant back in any condition at least then I have something to show for my money.
I have since been able to buy alternative steam plants from another supplier and they are FANTASTIC and work 100% from day one.
I have had many steam plants in the past from different suppliers so I know how to solve faults,leaks etc. But I am not prepared to carry out rebuild works on a brand new plant that should be sold tested and fault free.
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It would appear you have no alternative than to chase this issue through a small claims court.
Very unfortunate and obviously dissapointing. Interestingly enough this manufacturer is actually a member here so he obviously reads posts such as yours and he might decide that rather than have you asking for advice on such an issue it may be in his best interest to offer a satisfactory conclusion.
I wish you well.
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That posting justifies staying with electric motors I think. ::) ::)
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Which bit Richard, the fact that steam plant operation would appear to be complicted or the fact that professionals in the business appear to be quite abusive with customers.
When I once had an altercation with a vendor of a steam engine who took the balance of payment from my credit card without even informing me he had done so my lengthy and extreemly annoyed tirade was met with a "I think you need to relax and have a Coffee Mr S"
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Steam plants can be a little fussy to get to run correctly at times, but this usually can be remedied by simple adjusting or performing simple maintenance. Most manufacturers are more than willing to spend the time helping their patrons. Cheddar Models was a great company for more than one reason. I've never heard anything negative said about their service nor their products!
Steam models can be a bit more complicated than electric models, but tend to be extremely rewarding to operate when set up and maintained properly. Looking on the positive side of things, as with any new endeavor, you will run across small road bumps, but these usually can help steam plant owners become more familiar with the way their models operate, thus winning them experience through perseverance that will help them trouble shoot or better yet avoid similar problems in the future.
Prospective steam model enthusiasts should not be disenchanted from exploring this rewarding hobby by reading some of the negative points mentioned in this thread but view these points as some modelers unfortunate experiences. The positives of live steam models far out weigh the negatives and for this reason the hobby has both been around for so long and remains to grow in interest.
This is a great model boat forum with a great community of members who are more than happy to lend a hand to anyone who needs it. We are lucky to have administrators/moderators who are willing to spend their personal time hosting this forum for all of us to enjoy. :)
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I've heard stories like the one that started this outburst so many times, lovely looking steam engine that just doesn't work, usually due to basic design faults, send it back, and it's returned no better, send it back again and xxxxx just keeps it and won't give a refund. I know of two case going through the small claims process at the moment, apart from this one. I've currently got six or seven steam plants, all either Cheddar or SVS. I started out knowing very little, but followed the advice that Cheddar and SVS gave me, which was mainly to keep everything well lubricated, and I've never had a single problem of any kind with any of them, probably because both Cheddar and SVS knew exactly what they were doing and didn't incorporate inappropriate materials or basic design faults in their engines. There isn't even a smidgeon of 'Rocket Science' to making and operating model steam plants, never has been, it's all just basic common sense engineering, though basic common sense after sales service is always a welcome bonus.
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I agree with you totally ANMO. It is such a shame that people spend their well earned money on something that does not work correctly. It is good for me to hear I have the backing of others and that I am not the only person with this problem. It is as you say the small claims court is not designed for dishonest people.
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How long do these issues take to get sorted out in the SC Court these days?
Cliff
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They are dealt with in good time but only if the person with the judgment against them ever pays up. Which is the problem as they cannot be forced to.
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This may help and it might give anyone with a genuine grievance a few ideas. Many years ago I was working part time as a self employed photographer, and a film processing company destroyed one of my films, wouldn't you know it, something really important and irreplaceable. The film processor tried to rely on the small print in his terms and conditions, 'no liability accepted beyond the cost of the materials'. I won't go into details, but because the utter ineptitude he'd exercised in destroying my film, I took him to the local Small Claims Court. I live in Dorset, and film man was in Burton on Trent, but because I'd made a contract when I mailed the film to him, the case was heard in Poole. The MD of the film company turned up on the appointed day, all cocky smiles accompanied by his secretary, telling me I hadn't a hope in hell, and he was going to claim for all his expenses. The case was heard by a Registrar, which I think is somewhere between a magistrate and a County Court judge. It was all very informal, I told the Registrar what had happened, the Film MD tried to bluster it out, but the Registrar told him it was one of the worst cases of negligence he'd ever heard, and gave me judgement for the full amount claimed which was about £800, and this was around 15 years ago. This wiped the grin of the film man's face, but he told me that he wasn't going to cough up. The film processors used to advertise in a professional photographers' magazine. After writing the usual letters giving him 14 days to pay etc, I didn't bother with bailiffs but phoned the magazine's editor. He was very sympathetic and told me he'd do what he could. About a week later, a cheque arrived for the full amount, accompanied by a compliments slip, apparently editor had told them that unless they paid up, they'd have to find somewhere new to advertise, so maybe a similar approach might work in your case boatman126.
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It sounds as though they can be long drawn out affairs with no guarantee of a good end result. I can't figure out why they have the process of taking someone to
the SC Court then after all the stress and delay, one wins the judgement only for them to grin away and not pay anything! Its a typical farce that only solicitors etc win
I think.
There must be another way around the situation surely? there has to be as it involves quite a lot of hard earned money and again it is something one may only
purchase either once for a project or twice to add to one's collection.
We will have to put on thinking caps chaps and try to solve the problem, it may just happen to one of us one day and I for one would like to know I could get some
advice and help in the community. O0
If I come across any information I will off course post it for viewing ok.
Cliff
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It sounds as though they can be long drawn out affairs with no guarantee of a good end result. I can't figure out why they have the process of taking someone to the SC Court then after all the stress and delay, one wins the judgement only for them to grin away and not pay anything! Its a typical farce that only solicitors etc win
There's not much that I can add to my earlier post. The whole point of the Small Claims system is that essentially it's DIY, you have to do a lot of the work yourself, but a judgement in your favour puts a powerful weapon in your hands. In the case I described, I had to fill out all the forms from an info booklet that they gave me, but I found the SC office staff very helpful in telling me how to word my claim etc. And today of course, you have Google and the internet to help you do and say the right things. As far as I can remember, my costs apart from a few hours of my time were something under £50, this was about 15 years ago of course, but I don't think the amounts involved have increased all that much. Given the circumstances outlined, I know exactly what I'd to, read the last two or three lines of my previous post again. Also, no solicitors are involved unless you want to pay them to do something you can easily do yourself, and normally the other side can't claim costs from you.
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One of the procedural rules of the Small Claims Court is that neither party can be represented by a lawyer, you must appear on your own behalf.
When dealing with problems it is also worth remembering that the Consumer Credit Act which controls ( among other things) credit cards, imposes "equal liability" on the credit card company when you buy a faulty product or service using the card. So, it is worth contacting you credit card company as they will usually refund you and then persue the other party.
Roger in France.
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Thanks anmo & Roger, I was never aware of that. No Sols/Lawyers involved. One learns something new everyday. Having never been through the
procedures it is good to know others have and can pass on there information and help, so Thank you for that, both of you.
Cliff
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Dont worry BBDave, there are some subjects guarranteed to generate some enthusiastic debates and you just happened to have hit on one of them.
I'm glad your plant is working OK and you are pleased with it all you need to do now is get it into a boat and get it on the water!!
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One of the procedural rules of the Small Claims Court is that neither party can be represented by a lawyer, you must appear on your own behalf.
Roger in France.
You're right of course, but for the benefit of anyone reading this thread who hasn't experienced the Small Claims system for themselves, what I meant when I referred to legal advice, was in preparing for the hearing and advice about the claim generally, not during it. As Roger says, you aren't allowed to have legal representation at the hearing. I found the information booklet they gave me at the outset perfectly adequate, and a very much firmer line on customer credit has meant that I haven't troubled the Small Claims system recently, but I doubt if things have changed much. I found everything quite easy, fairly informal, and every allowance was made for inexperience of the system. We all sat round a large table, I told the Registrar what had happened, and presented documentary evidence. The 'other side' stated his case, the Registrar asked a few questions, and made his decision there and then, and since he found in my favour, I have to say that I think the system is an excellent one. It isn't altogether surprising to me that this thread has developed into one on fairly elementary legal advice, but I hope some are finding this helpful.
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Having got a ruling in your favour, just what are the enforcement options available to you and to what extent will you have the support of the law in doing so?
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I was told by the CAB that there are very few ways to force payment, the ones which are available just incur further costs with no garrantee of getting your money back. You could have a situation which allows him to make very small monthly payments, but that would take a lifetime.
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Worth looking here to see the possible options:
http://www.small-claims-court-support.co.uk/enforcing-judgments.htm
http://www.small-claims.co.uk/enforcement.htm
http://www.lawpack.co.uk/small_claims_faq.asp#5004
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FYI...... Topic resuscitated - :-\
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Oh it is good to see that what the Britz do best, they do well over and over again. Why is it that British mentality pushes things right to the edge and become obsessed with
sending certain folks to the gallows before all sides of the arguments are noted!!
The thread I believed was closed due to 'legal reasons', so why has it been resurected with the names deleted which relate to the person concerned only for the link to be still
in place refering to that thread in the first place!!!!!DOH.
I would hope that the community would also like to see an end to this farce and ask the very knowledgable moderators to finally kill this link and any relation to it by other forum
members once and for all please.
It is not the place to do the dirty washing in and should remain private with the moderators ensuring that any future bombastic threads relating to manufacturers are kept of the
public place forthwith.
I would say you folks do a fantastic job of bringing the modeller together and the transfer of information which gives help is simply the best around so why spoil it with this very
unsavoury topic, keep it private please.
Thank you for reading and I hope to continue to read and add threads as and when time allows in this awesome hobby.
Cliff
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I must say I disagree with Rosyth. I have found reading this thread useful on two levels, one is the info about the claims system and the other is the info about the after sales service that someone says they have received, even if I don't know who from.
If I'd spent £800 on shoddy goods, and then been refused rectification/refund, I'd be making a noise about it.
On the other hand, if I had supplied a working system and the customer was in error I'd want to politely, but accurately, set the record straight
I am hoping to build my first steam plant soon and this has certainly led me to think more carefully about what to buy and what questions to ask prospective suppliers.
Regards,
Grant.
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Well well what a surprise!
All these NEGATIVE thoughts man, not good for soul.
So tell me, would one, after reading through all the replies etc take a positive step and go to the very person who
has been targeted in the posting or would one go somewhere else?
Lets wait and see what way this goes shall we...............
Please be honest in whatever reply you post otherwise it is pointless contributing on it ok.
Cliff
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Yes, negative thoughts, I'd like to find a lovely heart warming post on here soon about it all being a misunderstanding, and all resolved, and everyone exchanging Christmas cards. Really, I'm not being sarcastic, I would like that. The situation as described wouldn't appear to do anyone any good.
A merry Christmas to you all.
Grant.
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So several members who have been steam users for a long time have had or have friends who have had problems with a Particular manufacturer, and who comment about it are wrong, or is it wrong for someone who openly admits to links with the manufacturer asks for it to be removed.
Peter
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Please lets keep this FRIENDLY with no snide remarks thank you
Stavros
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The thing is HS93 that it seems to me that your post moves from the substantive issue of an individual saying 'I have had a problem, it hasn't been resolved in consultation with the seller, and I'm considering the small claims court' to a much more generalised 'loads of people have problems with this manufacturer' which is much harder to justify because it's not these people making the statement, it's second hand. I'd personally to hear about these problems directly from these mebers and their friends.
As far as people having links to the manufacturer goes, that's pretty vague as well. If the link is being a satisfied customer then surely that's fine, they are entitled to express their good opinion. If its more than that then it probably isn't. But just saying 'links to the manufacturer'is a bit meaningless and, I hope you will forgive me for saying this, greatly weakens your statement.
Best wishes to all.
Grant.
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This thread was originally pulled and heavily moderated due to the fact that it was getting unfair and unsubstantiated. The reason it was reinstated in it's present form was no more than to allow the useful advice posted by a couple of contributors to be available to all members for use should they ever get into difficulties with any vendor in the future.
Let's not drag it back down the same path as it originally went with more accusations and insinuations and simply leave it as it is, which is a usefull reference.
If people have specific concerns and challenges with a particular manufacturer then the obvious course of action is to take it up with that manufacturer rather than try to use this forum to progress personal issues.
As grantl rightly says this thread is to offer advice for such situations and maybe make people think carefully before committing large amounts of money to a project which has to be basic common sense anyway.
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Looks like we got there in the end then! I knew it wouldn't be to long before common sense overcame the attacks in individuals so well done to all and a lesson learnt.
Take it to them direct and not on here.
Merry Christmas........
Cliff
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I beg to differ on Roger of France's earlier post that solicitors are not alowed to represent in a small claims court.I have sued a number of companies in the small claims court over the past 10 years and all brought solicitors, whom I beat at their own game on my own terms.
In june 2002 I won a land mark case in the small claims court at Blackpool which made the Law society journal, when I sued _____ ______, the ambulance chaser accident line for my money back after I was awarded £1500.00p in an accident and Claims Direct took £1497.30p out of my award for their expences leaving me with a cheque for £2.70 . they turned up to court with both a solicitor AND a Barrister, but the judge saw sense and awarded me judgement. At this very moment I am taking _____ ___ to court under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act with regards a matter about my credit card, and ______ have already assigned a solicitor.
The point about the Small claims court is that you pay a fixed price for the proceedings, (in my case £150.00 flat rate) and no matter how many lawers they employ, YOU CAN'T GET STUNG FOR THEIR COSTS, unless it is a malscious claim! If you win, and they don't pay up you can employ bailiffs to collect, or make a petition to have the award taken at source, even from pension funds these days. Take it from me, you have the right of the law on your side and as long as they have assets in their name, you can get your money back.
Believe me, been there, done that and had the web site once upon a time called www.sue4pleasure.info.uk
I learned a long while ago that I no longer turn over lay on my back and give up!!
Names removed - Moderator
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Good to see somebody using the Courts effectively. There are too many companies out there who think an individual consumer will never act in this way.
Not knowing the details of the cases mentioned I cannot comment. However, the Small Claims Procedure certainly did prohibit legal representation. Do remember that the Court can apply whatever process it deems appropriate and so these cases may not have been heard under the small claims procedure. Certainly action under the Consumer Credit Act is most unlikely to be handled in that way. The Act is a highly complex statute which even has appendices to explain what parts of it mean! A former Lord Chief justice once said it was the most abstruse statute he had ever been asked to construe. There are several Sections of the Act very, very useful to consumers, for example the Act makes each Card Company "equally liable" with the seller for defects in the goods.
Roger in France.
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Blimey, had to look up abstruse :o
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Further to my post last night I feel that I have to tell you all of a little known clause in the Consumer Credit Act in this country which protects the individual purchaser against rogue traiders.
If you have bought a product (From ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD) using your CREDIT CARD then you are covered under the Consumer Credit Act under section 75.
That means that if someone sells you goods or does a service (Plumbing, building etc or a washing mashine, steam engine etc) that is faulty, not working or just plain no good and that you do not receive those goods either from the seller or from them after repair, and you have paid for those goods by credit card, then the bank that issued your credit card to you HAS JOINT LIABILITY FOR THAT PAYMENT that you are out of pocket by, and also reasonable expenses that you might have suffered as a loss to chasing up this matter with the original vendor.
This clause was to safeguard purchasers from rogue and cowboy traders and against companies who had been given the facilities by the banks to operate a credit card payment sceme by going bust or into voluntary liquidation to avoid paying out on their roguish dealings.
I am at present suing the parent bank of my credit card because I had a motor car worked on by a company which then blew up within 5 miles of picking it up.I had an indipendant test done on the car which proved negligence and then issued proceedings in court naming the garage as number 1 defendant and my bank as number 2 defendant, and the case is proceeding.
So don't be shy, write to the vendor and your bank issuer of the credit card giving them both the option to pay up on FULL REFUND of your goods plus any reasonable expenses such as postage ,phone calls etc, quoting that you will sue them for joint liability for your losses under SECTION 75 ,Consumer Credit Act, give them 21 days to respond and send payment in full, and send it by GUARANTEED NEXT DAY DELIVERY so that they can't deny having received it, and if(as the banks will do) they deny responsibility for this, issue a claim on line ( it's cheeper) through HMCS Money claim on line.
Best of luck to you all and if you feel that you need a little help from an old pro, give me a pm. only glad to help rid this world of those that can't trade in a decent and honest manner!
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As a footnote to the above, you should appreciate that what is said relates only to CREDIT cards and not DEBIT cards which are essentially just a substitute for a cheque. Therefore it is always best to pay by CREDIT card if you can't take the goods/services away with you there and then.
The trouble now is that many companies are applying a surcharge if you use a CREDIT card to recoup the charge that the credit card operator makes to them. On a large purchase this can be quite substantial. On a recent holiday I booked it would have meant an extra £70 to pay by credit card. As the holiday was covered by ATOL I used my debit card instead but you need to exercise some judgement about this. At the moment most smaller purchases bought over the Internet don't seem to be attracting this extra charge but I suspect we may see an increase in this in the future as the credit card operators seek to recover some of the money they have lost by being prevented from charging excessive penalties for late payment etc. by upping the charges they make to the supplier.
Colin
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There is a rule that most people dont know. This is the Distance Selling Act of 2000, which states that if the goods are not delivered within 30 days then the contract is cancelled by law and if the money has already been taken eg debit card then legally you can have it back. The bank will refund it if there is no pin and chip or delivery can not be proved. How do I know this well I recently ordered a steam plant from a well known steam engineer which he never delivered despite written promises of delivery and taking my money the same day as the order was placed with a two week delivery promise. Ten weeks later one month after I applied for the money to be returned it was back in my bank although the vendor refused to cancel the order or send the goods. You do have to write to the vendor to tell him that you are using the act if you need to get the money back directly from him eg a cheque. All this distance selling is to cover telephone orders or similar.
If you have the same troubles as I did then take all actions that you can I have spoken to the office of fair trading, the bank, and soon the police because I dont want this to happen to any one else.
E Mail me for more details of how i dealt with this company if you want more details. >>:-(
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In reply to NHP615. The problem I have with this is that I paid by cheque and not credit card. This manufacturer told me that this is what he preferred ( I wonder why?)
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Hi Boatman if the problem is with this same steam engineer then do as I did and contact the police, office of fair trading as they are already looking into this company, the more the merrier. You are covered under the distance selling act (read my post above). It is about time this company was put out of business before more people find themselves on the losing end. >>:-(
E Mail me if I can help
Mook
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Just a reminder.....
If any modeller or consumer for that matter has cause for complaint with a retailer or manufacture, you are reminded
that in the first case, the consumer is obliged to make every effort to seek a resolution with said retailer or manufacture.
( There has been much advice and guidance on this topic alone.) Therefore, please make sure that all complaints have
been fully aired with the retailer or manufacture concerned outside of this Forum first.
After much discussion between the moderators, we will be allowing this topic to run (after extensive moderation) due
to it's relevance and importance. Therefore, when posting here, please only state your own personal experiences when
dealings with any trader - without exaggeration or omission. ( Traders names or identification may have to be removed for
legal reasons. )
If and when your problems are resolved it would be appropriate and a courtesy to everyone to record that fact on the
Forum just as you raised the original issue. See: Good Customer Service. - http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=710.0
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Hi MOOK,
May I ask what it was you ordered in the way of kit and to clarify did the vendor actually deliver the goods to your door either on time or late.
What was the problem with the goods in question if any and have you reached a conclusion yet.
Cheers
Cliff
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Hi, i have been reading this section of the forum with some degree of shock and disgust
I can't believe the totally negative comments regarding this manufacturer.
Personally i have had no problems with J.H and have been buying and using his products for many years now, and i might add with no problems regarding payment,delivery and most importantly quality.
From what i have read there seems to be a bit of a witch hunt going on here , and if you seriously have a problem then deal with the vendor and don't vent your anger/frustrations here until you have resolved the problem.
I have been to see J.H on many occasions and he is a very friendly one man business working in a small workshop, designing/manufacturing and assembling items to order.
I would have thought that as we are all modelmakers we of all people should know that good things take time and sometimes unforeseen issues crop up and interfere with our hobbies and work like family commitments/work and illness.
SO please stop this pointless negative griping, We need people like this so we can enjoy our leisure time.
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Quite possibly Mr. Kennedy you have been really lucky throughout your modelling endeavours, whereas others seem not to have been, and I beleive that they are only commenting on bitter experiences which is, under our constitution of free speach for all, in this country, what they are all entitled to do.
Perhaps, from the guist of this thread you have not had problems that others have suffered, but had you had, perhaps your own feelings might be different!
I have my own thoughts on this matter which WILL remain private from this forum, but take it to say, Mr Kennedy, you don't know the half of it, really you don't >>:-(
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I am sorry if i touched some raw nerves here but as i have said in my earlier post personally speaking i have not found any of the problems mentioned.
Whether it was luck or judgement who knows?
what were your specific problems as i am curious? and do you have them resolved now?
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I'm sorry, Mr Kennedy, but the information you are asking is privvy to myself, and WILL NOT be discussed over open forum or even through private message or emails I am sorry.
I will not be personally, and shall not allow this site/forum, be subjected to anyone mis-construing my thoughts or past personal experiences for legal scrutiny for simple gossip.
thankyou though for your concern. O0
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OK, I'm going to lock the topic here.
Everyone has had their chance to have their say and the moderators have been doing
a huge amount of work behind the scenes to keep this as balanced as possible. Mayhem
should not to be used as a vehicle for airing ongoing disputes between traders and
customers which should be resolved directly between the parties concerned.
No matter which trader, retailer, manufacturer you are dealing with, especially smaller or
"cottage" type companies, make sure you have in writing what you are both agreeing
to before making a purchase. Your own "expectations" may not be part of the agreement!
Take the information here for what it is - personal opinions.
Caveat emptor - "Let the buyer beware".
If you have anything further to add to this discussion, please click the
'report to moderator' link below for it's consideration.
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Comment below added on request.
I wish it to be known that the comments I made on this thread concerning the business ethics of john Hemmens were caused by a misunderstanding on my part, my comments were unfounded and were without justification I unreservedly apologise to John for causing him so much trouble. I joined others on the bandwagon whether their comments were justified or not.
I support fully the moderators recommendation that where there is a dispute between a customer and the supplier, the matter should be resolved between the parties and if necessary go to a third party such as The trading Standards Office to resolve such problems and not use the site for such matters
Mook