Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: alan colson on February 04, 2008, 06:42:22 pm

Title: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 04, 2008, 06:42:22 pm: The Royal Mail have again lost some of my post >>:-( >>:-(, this time it was a birthday card with a £20-00 M&S voucher inside sent to me by my elderly pensioner parents who are not very happy :'( :'(. Now trying to get compensation the Post Office say they do not pay out if you have not got a certificate of posting. If you use an ordinary post box you cannot get this certificate. So you now have to go to a Post Office, but they are all being closed down. May I suggest that we all get a certificate of posting for every letter sent, this will highlight that they cannot keep closing Post Offices down and will cause Mayhem (Excuse the Pun) at the counters.
IS THIS THE ONLY WAY TO STOP ROYAL MAIL ROBBERY?
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: sheerline on February 04, 2008, 07:30:08 pm: I think a good idea is not to post birthday cards with vouchers or anything of value inside and post them in their own envelopes as they are identifyable as birthday cards. These are an easy target for the thieves. A good idea is to stick the whole thing in a brown buff official looking envelope and send it that way.. it's not foolfroof but the odds are better.
Having said that, I sent a tiny spare part out in a buff envelope and the component was in a small polythene bag inside it. The thieving postie could obviously feel a tiny lump and made a small incision in one corner, managed also to open the polythene bag within using the same technique and removed what he perhaps hoped would be a piece of expensive jewelry. What he got must have disapointed him as it turned out to be a tiny fairlead for my friends sub! I bet he didn't even know what it was or even cared for that matter but the cheeky ba-t-ard actually delivered the empty envelope!
Waste of space.. should have their hands chopped off!! >:(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 04, 2008, 07:39:13 pm: In sum ways I agree with you, but why should we pay for two letters, one with the card and one with the voucher. The cost of the stamps is already ROBBERY.
As you may have seen elsewhere I organise a Charity Model Boat Show and about three years ago I sent out about 50 letters with entry forms in to various club secretaries, things seemed to be very slow on the entries, so I phoned about a dozen of the secretaries only to find that about 50% of the forms ad not arrived. ROBBERY!!!
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 04, 2008, 08:04:40 pm: The Royal Mail is not safe, I have had several instances of credit cards being tampered with in transit and having to be replaced as a result. We seem to live in a thieving culture. I do have some sympathy for tha Arab practice of cutting off the hands of the b******ds responsible. On the BBC Breakfast programme this morning some quite "respectable" people were arguing that it's perfectly OK to buy clothes, wear them to a party and then take them back for a refund. Just like the MP Derek Conway genuinely thinks he has done nothing wrong in siphoning taxpayer's money off to benefit his idle offspring. >>:-( >>:-(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: sheerline on February 04, 2008, 08:25:49 pm: I heard that one too Colin. In the words of the gtreat Terry Thomas.."They're an absolute shaaare"! (shower)
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 04, 2008, 08:34:38 pm: Quite annoyed tonight. Received new credit cards this moring. Need to ring up the provider to confirm we have received them so they can be activated. Fair enough. Spent two hours on the phone but can't get through! >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: elmo on February 04, 2008, 08:47:44 pm: Quote from: Colin Bishop on February 04, 2008, 08:34:38 pm
Quite annoyed tonight. Received new credit cards this moring. Need to ring up the provider to confirm we have received them so they can be activated. Fair enough. Spent two hours on the phone but can't get through! >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Yep, I can sympathise with that - I nearly (but not quite) lost my cheap Travelodge rooms at Ashford to complement my Eurotunnel booking, thanks to that crazy procedure... the things the criminals have got us innocent lot doing now! >:(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: bigfella on February 04, 2008, 09:03:44 pm: I can not believe how bad it seams things are getting in the UK if you cant trust the Royal Mail. Just slightly off topic a bit but do you guys have as standard "smart cards" one with the chip in the card?? as we still have the magnetic strip cards which seam to be a bonus to those criminal types who have made a huge industry in skimmers and the like at ATM's. It is amazing what lengths these scum go to.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: elmo on February 04, 2008, 09:26:54 pm: Quote from: bigfella on February 04, 2008, 09:03:44 pm

I can not believe how bad it seams things are getting in the UK if you cant trust the Royal Mail. Just slightly off topic a bit but do you guys have as standard "smart cards" one with the chip in the card?? as we still have the magnetic strip cards which seam to be a bonus to those criminal types who have made a huge industry in skimmers and the like at ATM's. It is amazing what lengths these scum go to.

... Its certainly true - one of our posties had half of my Del Prado Napoleonic Cavalry figures stached away in his garden shed for ages before he got caught - plus he had all sorts of mail in there apparently too which he hadn't got around to opening - unbelievable! Now he's very probably living quite comfortably on the state while everyone else is busy working hard to pay his upkeep! >>:-(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 06, 2008, 04:09:30 pm: PLEASE READ THIS AND SAVE YOURSELF AND OTHERS MONEY
[/color]
IT'S ARRIVED!!! When I started this thread I complained about the post office robbing us blind and losing post. Well two and a half weeks after it was put in the post a card was put through my door saying that I had a letter that needed an extra 16p to be paid plus £1-00 handling charge. It was my birthday card, but it was to thick. (Think about this when you buy cards in future) I also had a second card left today telling me that I had post to collect with a £1-06 charge on it, 6p extra plus £1-00 handling charge, this letter was in an envelope slightly over C5 size, it was an entry for the Charity Model Boat Show that I organise, if the Post Office have their way I will not have anything left to give the charity.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: bigfella on February 06, 2008, 10:16:53 pm: So gone are the days when you put the Queens head on your mail and new it would get to its destination in a secure and timely manor. I can only talk from experience about Australia Post and I have found it to be very good. Obviously if you try and post something of value on the cheap you expect it to go missing. With these sort of items I always go registered as that comes with tracking and insurance. I suppose that mail goes through so many sets of hands that it only takes one in the chain to ruin it for the others. Is there no sort of accountability for the failing Royal Mail or has it just been accepted that this is just the standard over the years??

Regards David
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Peter Fitness on February 06, 2008, 10:34:33 pm: I agree with David about Australia Post, it really is very good. I have had no problems at all with theft in the mail, however, I did have a problem with our mail man leaving some magazines on top of the brick fence above our letter boxes (we live in 1 of a 3 unit block), instead of putting them in the receptacle provided. During the recent wet and wild weather, the magazines blew into the garden of the front unit where they became waterlogged and unreadable. I complained to Australia Post, and received a prompt reply telling me that appropriate action would be taken. So far, it has not happened again.
For the benefit of all the Brits, we don't have our mail dropped through a slot in our front door, (I watch quite a lot of British TV :) ) our mail boxes are usually built in to the front fences of houses, whilst units have their mail boxes together in a purpose built brick wall.
Peter.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 06, 2008, 10:43:36 pm: Come on Bigfella, it does not matter what the value of the item is, you pay for a service and expect to get it. I have found out in my correpondance with the Post Office that if you send something recorded delivery for which you pay extra they still cannot track the item until it gets signed for on delivery. If it gets signed for I don't give a s**t, it has arrived. It's if it goes missing on route that I worry.
Peter Fitness, I would not mind a secure mail box on the garden fence, only problem is we have open plan front gardens in many areas including mine, which means no fences around the front gardens.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: bigfella on February 06, 2008, 11:03:46 pm: Alan

Obviously you have a different system to ours. If you register an article here in Australia it is given a unique bar code which is tracked at every step of its journey. For instance I bought an item which was located at Sydney. The tracking, which you can look up on Australia Post web site, with dates and times
Was Logged in at collection centre,
Logged in at Parcal depot,
logged in at Sydney Airport depot,
logged in at Brisbane Airport depot,
Logged in at Brisbane distribution depot,
logged in at Gold Coast depot,
Logged in at local Post Office for delivery and last of all signed by recipient.

So if it does not arrive they have a starting point as to where it went astray. It seams that Australia Post is a little more efficient than the Royal Mail. Then again I don't know what the standard of recruitment of Post workers in the UK is but obviously it is not as stringent as it should be as there appears to be a lot of light fingers in the Royal Mail.

Regards David
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Peter Fitness on February 07, 2008, 01:16:01 am: Alan, if the property has no front fence, then a free standing mail box has to be erected on the property front boundary, or you can hire a secure mail box at most Post Offices, accessible from the outside, with a key. It just means you have to go to the Post Office to collect your mail.
David, what you say about recorded delivery is spot on - a very efficient system that really works. O0
Peter.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Roger in France on February 07, 2008, 07:09:08 am: The French postal system "La Poste" appears to be good. I will not say "efficient" because it seems to be rather profligate with lots of little vans running around as well as delivery folk on bicycles. I frequently have a van delivering quite small parcels and the bicycle delivery of letters, on the same day.....not complaining mind you!

We have to put a locked box on the perimeter of our property. They have a range of standard locks to which the delivery folk have a key such that items which will not go through the slot can be placed inside. These boxes are found in amazing situations....under a large stone; in a tree; on a post leaning drunkenly to one side; buried in a hedge...as well as being bricked in to a wall or gateway. Many boxes have a door at the rear as well as at the front to allow access without leaving your property.

In remote areas boxes may be a couple of kilometers from the house and is often accompanied by a box or length of drain pipe into which bread is delivered!

A feature of French delivery is "publicite", the weekly bundle of free newspapers; brochures from local shops; flyer's etc. This can be quite a large bundle and frequently folk refuse such deliveries by placing a sign next to the postbox, "Pas de publicite" (No junk mail). I find some of the publicity quite useful as each local supermarket publishes a weekly, illustrated brochure of the current weeks special offers. There is a very "seasonal" approach to the publicity with the shops appearing to promote the same things. For example, at the moment, as well as clothing and food - which is always promoted - we are being offered smoke detectors; gas detectors; fire alarms; fire extinguishers and entry phones. Shortly they will all switch to "spring" promotions with garden tools etc.

I presume the shops are "in sync" to demonstrate how well they can compete.

Roger in France,
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on February 07, 2008, 09:03:41 am: We've used Royal Mail First Class since we took over the business about nine months ago. There have been hiccups, like the receivers that took seven days to go 40 miles and the speed controllers that took nearly three weeks to find their way back from Southampton, but both occasions were during or just after the postal strikes. Nearly all of the goods we send out get to where they should be on the following day, which is more than I can say for letter-post! They've never lost one parcel (in over 500) and the price is stupidly cheap compared with the alternatives. We sent a fairly heavy package by air to Australia which got there in seven days at a cost of £9, and that's fully insured. In contrast, DHL won't touch anything - even UK to UK - for less than about £14 a throw. To compare Royal Mail with other countries' national carriers, I recently received a similar-size package sent by Canadian Post Special Express which took seven days and cost $53CA. That's £25.50 in real money (sorry, David!).
Our only beef with the Post Office is that they are closing our nearest sub-office, which makes a profit, and forcing us to use one further away which is already over-patronised. Queuing outside in the rain with a bag full of parcels is not a cheerful prospect.
Like I always say, suit yourselves.
FLJ
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: barriew on February 07, 2008, 10:16:13 am: I agree with FLJ, no problems with our postmen, and they continued to work during the strikes. It is possible to track Registered or Recorded items with the UK post office, not to quite such detail as Australia Post, but you can see if it has been delivered and who signed for it.

FLJ, if you need to use a courier again, look at Parcel2go.com, they use DHL and others for a lot less than that price - also cheap to the USA - ask Stavros :)

Barrie
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 07, 2008, 03:49:50 pm: Barriew
I am sorry to argue with you but this is a "Quote from Royal Mail, email to me dated 04/02/2008"Unfortunately we cannot track 1st, 2nd Class post or Standard Parcels at any stage of its journey, therefore we cannot search for your item. This also applies to Recorded items, as they are only tracked once they have been delivered and signed for.
SO WHAT THE HELL DO YOU PAY EXTRA FOR ON A RECORDED ITEM IF YOU CAN ONLY BE TOLD IT HAS OR HAS NOT ARRIVED AT ITS DESTINATION?

AS I SAID IT IS ROYAL MAIL ROBBERY

Alan
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 07, 2008, 04:16:38 pm: Quote
SO WHAT THE HELL DO YOU PAY EXTRA FOR ON A RECORDED ITEM IF YOU CAN ONLY BE TOLD IT HAS OR HAS NOT ARRIVED AT ITS DESTINATION?

Well, I suppose some people might find it useful to know that the divorce papers they've sent have been received at the other end.... ;)
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 07, 2008, 04:34:27 pm: Yes Colin, but your still up sh*t creek without a paddle if it does not arrive and you have paid extra for the privilage of it not arriving.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Colin Bishop on February 07, 2008, 05:08:23 pm: Yes Alan, I agree, same thing happened to me last year with a registered post item, a spare camera battery. The registered it into the system and then it disappeared into the ether. The sender couldn't claim off the Post Office for the cost of a replacement for 15 working days so I had to wait for it. >:(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: funtimefrankie on February 07, 2008, 07:08:47 pm: Maybe some of these "lost in the post" had the wrong address...
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8596.0
>>:-(
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on February 07, 2008, 08:22:57 pm: funtimefrankie
If you read the 3rd answer on this thread (one I wrote) about 50% of the mail I sent in one posting did not arrive. I have had so much trouble with post over the years you would not believe it.
THIS IS WHY I AM SO INSISTANT ON GETTING MY POINT ACROSS.

I STILL INSISTTHAT THIS IS ROYAL MAIL ROBBERY
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: PMK on March 20, 2010, 05:37:15 pm: When I were a nipper, I one day found myself taking a butcher's around the RM's sorting office in Swindon. A big place, giving you a behind-the-scenes snoop of what happens after you post your letters/parcles, blah. Meaning, it's quite complex, quite clever how it all works. Meaning, if I were to deliver any letter myself, to any location in Britain, and promise to have it delivered the next day, then how the heck would I be able to drive from Somerset to, say, Glasgow, for the same price as that of of a stamp? I ain't none too hot on directions, either. I reckon I would waste half an age just trying to find the place, wasting more fuel, time, ££, etc..... So I leave all that malarkey for the Royal Mail to take care of.
Touch wood, I've never had as much as one single issue with the RM. In fact, I appreciate how it all works. I even make sure to bung a few shillings to our Postie man/woman every Christmas, bless their little street-bound feet. Besides, what about the times when the RM do get it right, but it's the customer who gets it wrong? Nobody whinges then, do they? I personally know of at least one particular bozo who stuck a 2nd-class stamp where a 1st-class stamp should have been, then, when it arrived (late), the poor bloke at the other end had to stump-up the remainder before RM would release it.

...isn't that right, Monsuir Jaquette?
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: DickyD on March 20, 2010, 05:49:41 pm: Similar thing happened to me PMK.

I live in Southampton, a member of this Forum who lives in Fareham, 15 minute down the M27 sent me a letter in February with a few spade connectors and small nuts and bolts in it.

I had to go down to the local sorting office yesterday to collect the envelope because the postage was 8p short.

I had to pay the 8p and a handling charge of £1 to get the letter.

When I got the letter it had an Isle of Wight post mark on it.

So nearly two months to get the letter which somehow crossed the Solent twice on its journey to me. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

Thanks for the letter Mark. :-))
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on March 20, 2010, 06:17:21 pm: Quote from: PMK on March 20, 2010, 05:37:15 pm
I personally know of at least one particular bozo who stuck a 2nd-class stamp where a 1st-class stamp should have been, then, when it arrived (late), the poor bloke at the other end had to stump-up the remainder before RM would release it.
...isn't that right, Monsieur Jaquette?

Vous avez raison, o great agrarian bozo dude - but you missed out the bit about being told by the PO delivery geezer that a second-class stamp would do the job, and that the fee payable includes a quid penalty on top of the cost of the additional stamp. The swine was obviously on commission >>:-(
FLJ
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: justboatonic on March 20, 2010, 08:29:10 pm: Er, am I missing something in this thread!? Recorded Delivery is what it says, the delivery is recorded when you sign for it. It isnt and never has been a postage tracking system.

I paid for an RC helicopter, a Morley Hughes 300C in fact which I had dismantled and packaged in a box, to be collected by courier and delivered to Wakefiled IIRC. The guy who bought it complained when delivered it was badly damaged and sent photos. In turn, I claimed on the insurance but they gave some lame excuse about not paying out the £240 I sold it fo.

Eventually, after a lot of argument, they 'kindly' refunded the cost of the insurance. Twunts! So, it aint just the PO who cock up.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: PMK on March 20, 2010, 08:34:29 pm: "The swine was obviously on commission"

No, I don't think it was him; I think it must have been the girl in the queue - the one who'd sold me the stamp. Don't forget, the queue was like three days long at that point and my turn for the counter was like two days away. I wanted out, couldn't be doing with all that malarkey, but figgered that since I'd come all that way already... Besides, the delivery man was just leaving, on his way back to the sorting office with the day's bags. I wanted my letter to go on that day (read didn't fancy coming back the next day for yet another loooooong wait), asked the delivery man if he'd mind waiting until I'd been served. He was kind enough to wait but you could tell he was itching to go (he WAS busy, after all). Some chick standing just two customers behind, laden with tons of HUGE jiffy bags, spotted the size of my tiny one (jiffy bag) tapped me on the shoulder and said: "If that's all you're posting, I have some 1st-class stamps you can use.". The answer to my dilemma. So while she's shufti'ing her handbag, I'm talking with the chap standing between her and I, in deep conversation about longitude/latitude, blah. Leastways, I *think* she said first class. For all I know I it may indeed have been a 2nd-class one. I took it from her hand, like a berk, let it fall to the floor - sticky-side up, picked it up, stuck it to the jiffy bag, handed it to the fed-up looking delivery man, and that was it -- 1x jiffy winging its way to Notts County. And all in the blink of an eye, so I didn't get a proper grok of how much postage I'd just bought. She took a quid from a pile of coins in my hand, so I just assumed I'd had a 1-class on there. The delivery man mast have thought the same because he weighed it up in his hand and agreed that my £1 was pretty much guaranteed a next-day delivery on a letter of that size/weight. He couldn't have been working a scam - was too honest.
So blame HER. It was HER that creamed my palm. The robbing trollop.

In all fairness to the RM, those incurred charges , when you compare to how much the proper postage would have been in the first place, equals out at pretty much the same. The only main penalty is that the bloke at the receiving end suddenly gets whacked with a fee that he didn't even incur, AND the agro of taking time out to go collect.

Dammit, Mon Ami Pro Jaquette, if ever I should meet that palm-tickling strumpet again...........
At least Dicky's one got to see the sea TWICE.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on March 21, 2010, 04:35:34 pm: I had a modeller phone me at home last week asking me if I had returned all the information to him for the Alfold Charity Model Boat Show. I asked him for his name and address to which I replied I do not remember an entry in that name and asked if he could hold whilst I checked the last few entries I had yet to process. He told me that he had put a Postal Order in with the entry. I have not received an entry this year with a Postal Order in it.
Oh! he replied, that's gone missing in the post then.
ROYAL MAIL ROBBERY AGAIN!!
How many more times am I going to loose mail either sent to me or from me?
Still they insist that it is a good service (I DISAGREE)
Alan
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: justboatonic on March 21, 2010, 05:29:26 pm: Quote from: alan colson on March 21, 2010, 04:35:34 pm
I had a modeller phone me at home last week asking me if I had returned all the information to him for the Alfold Charity Model Boat Show. I asked him for his name and address to which I replied I do not remember an entry in that name and asked if he could hold whilst I checked the last few entries I had yet to process. He told me that he had put a Postal Order in with the entry. I have not received an entry this year with a Postal Order in it.
Oh! he replied, that's gone missing in the post then.
ROYAL MAIL ROBBERY AGAIN!!
How many more times am I going to loose mail either sent to me or from me?
Still they insist that it is a good service (I DISAGREE)
Alan

Im certain the mail have a section that does special investigations if you regularly have items of value posted to you or by you going astray.

Maybe an idea to contact RM and ask about this as Im certain if there is a thief in your nearest sorting office, it wont just be your post that's affected and they'll want to investigate.

Just an observation.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on March 22, 2010, 04:25:35 pm: Quote from: justboatonic on March 21, 2010, 05:29:26 pm
Im certain the mail have a section that does special investigations if you regularly have items of value posted to you or by you going astray.

Maybe an idea to contact RM and ask about this as Im certain if there is a thief in your nearest sorting office, it wont just be your post that's affected and they'll want to investigate.

Just an observation.
I have in the past spent time at the local sorting office with a manager trying to sort out the problems, I just seem to be banging my head against a brick wall, the service is rubbish >:-o (this is my own personal opinion), some of you may think differently.
Alan
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Bryan Young on March 22, 2010, 06:33:12 pm: Disregarding "genuine" mistakes of procedure/mismanagement and so on.
What happens to a "postie" who is found to be dishonest? I seem to recall such a situation a few years ago when it was obvious that the guy was as guilty as hell, but the "Union" stood by him and threatened a strike if he was sacked. "Management" caved in again, and so a precedent was set. No matter what problems the RM has, it does, always, return to the way an organisation is managed from the top downwards, and not from the masses underneath. BY.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: funtimefrankie on March 22, 2010, 06:45:40 pm: Well, they get sacked for not wearing their bike helmets round here <*<
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: Circlip on March 22, 2010, 07:00:22 pm: There is/was an internal police investigation department in the post office as the ex son in law worked in it. I also remember seeing "Auction" lists of items that had been lost/found in the mail.

Regards Ian.
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: modelbob63 on March 23, 2010, 01:56:24 am: I sent a parcel to Wigan on the 17th feb 1st class Recorded/signed for still has not arrived filled out a p58 claim form and sent wigan a refund again 1st class Recorded/signed for last thursday 5 days later their track & trace still shows it in their system,the same message as the original parcel. >:-o >:-o >:-o >:-o ;D
bob
Title: Re: Royal Mail Robbery
Post by: alan colson on March 24, 2010, 04:32:11 pm: Quote from: alan colson on March 21, 2010, 04:35:34 pm
I had a modeller phone me at home last week asking me if I had returned all the information to him for the Alfold Charity Model Boat Show. I asked him for his name and address to which I replied I do not remember an entry in that name and asked if he could hold whilst I checked the last few entries I had yet to process. He told me that he had put a Postal Order in with the entry. I have not received an entry this year with a Postal Order in it.
Oh! he replied, that's gone missing in the post then.
ROYAL MAIL ROBBERY AGAIN!!
How many more times am I going to loose mail either sent to me or from me?
Still they insist that it is a good service (I DISAGREE)
Alan

I have received the 2nd entry from this gentleman today, he sent it special delivery, with this postage, 2 postal orders, return sae's etc. it has at present cost him about £50-00 to enter the show, I hope he gets good compensation from the PO (BETTER THAN THE INSULT OF 6 FIRST CLASS STAMPS)

Alan