Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 09:18:08 pm

Title: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 09:18:08 pm: Does anyone know or can reccomend a good hardwood supplier in the UK ?
I am looking for Walnut boards probably 1" thick and 2'X1' (maybe larger )
I though with the wealth of knowledge on here and some full size boat builders you might be able to point me in the right direction ;) O0

Cheers guys

Shane
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: gribeauval on February 29, 2008, 09:29:36 pm: Check out John Boddys at Boroughbridge.

http://www.john-boddy-timber.ltd.uk/ (http://www.john-boddy-timber.ltd.uk/)

Mike
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 09:45:09 pm: Thanks Mike I will give them a call as my requirements dont seem to be met on their site .
I know you cant match wood but all their walnut seems too dark to me :-\
This DOES look like walnut doesnt it or am I losing the plot somwhere along the lines :P
(http://shutter05.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/13/007/77/FE/44/75/Prt0MJHZiuB66kbpzM54lpzaGINf9-u10280.jpg)

Shane
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: DickyD on February 29, 2008, 09:48:07 pm: Looks more like oak to me Shane from what I can see on your photo. O0

What is the dashboard from. ?
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 10:01:35 pm: Maybe this picture shows the wood better
(http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/22/003/36/FE/60/F5/fiTjgPUsxnTE+1ybd4-pXVxrbJO7K7Y-022E.jpg)
As for what its from I will tell later ;)
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: DickyD on February 29, 2008, 10:07:46 pm: I would say Oak, possibly American Southern white oak. Was hoping for a clue from what it was and when and where it was made. ;)
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 10:17:15 pm: OK fair point I suppose .
I was not going to mention that this was for a model plane build as sometimes people take some sort of offence because this IS a boat forum :'( Shame really as we are ALL modellers and sometimes we can all benefit form each other but that show it is I guess.
Anyway to answer your question . this is for a 120" 1/4 scale Stinson reliant that I am currently building .
It will be based (possibly) on the one below
(http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/23/004/73/CB/40/2C/Okeq-M8Zj5CFUm54zivkS4VIGQ7NasUr0280.jpg)

The dash i have shown is the one in that plane and I fully intend upon reproducing it with as much scale detail as i can get into it .
I have only just started on the wing construction and below is a picture of one outer wing panel . Yes that is a 12" rule in the picture .
This is going to be powered with an 80cc petrol engine which has just cost me a bleeding fortune :'( :'(
(http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/22/006/7D/BB/29/6A/EqrbcH3xAbncvxhnjS2DAbIM5lWGrVxq0280.jpg)

well now you know what its for . I still dont think its oak though , the grain looks wrong for oak . It reminds me of some jag dashboards which are Walnut ;)

Shane
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: gribeauval on February 29, 2008, 10:21:58 pm: Stinson is American I think? That looks like one of the maple variants.
If you download the timber pdf on the Boddy site (nearly 100 mb !!) it has pictures of most of the world timbers in it. ;)
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: andygh on February 29, 2008, 10:24:27 pm: 'taint walnut, could be either oak or maple, reminds me of olive a bit
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 10:34:39 pm: I have found this in amongst my data collection for this build so it IS Walnut .
Coincidentally Wylam (who has credit for the following pic ) is one of those people who search this sort of thing out . He also has many many many scale plans of this aircraft . hes now no longer with us but his memory lives on O
(http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/00A/55/FE/40/D8/6z8uAHU-G6BN9TXBvbdtLkdoj8csnoLr0280.jpg)
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: DickyD on February 29, 2008, 10:36:52 pm: Walnut is a lot darker Shane and it doesn't have the light flecks in it.
Most of the oak you have seen in furniture etc will also have been stained from natural light colour to dark.
Just looking at it again are you sure this is natural wood grain or is it timber that has been expertly grained to look like oak.
If you look at the bottom front edge of the dash that is a mighty funny shaped piece of wood if it was done in one piece and if it was done in two how come the grain matches ? Also the grain on the steering columns does not look natural. You will notice that the 4 lumps on the dash also has the grain matching. To do that in natural wood you would have to have planed the entire dash down to leave the 4 lumps sticking up. I reckon its definitely been grained.
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on February 29, 2008, 11:01:46 pm: Quote
Just looking at it again are you sure this is natural wood grain or is it timber that has been expertly grained to look like oak
I have no idea to be honest but the age of the plane (late 30's early 40's) would they be able to do this ?
I am still of the opinion that it is Walnut . so if you or anyone can send me to a supplier please feel free O0
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: boatmadman on March 01, 2008, 12:00:26 am: Have to admit it looks like Oak to me as well.

Anyway, this website has a variety of timbers, and if you look at the veneers section, they have walnut there, but only as a veneer - might be just the job for a model?

http://www.robbins.co.uk/mar_veneers.htm

Ian

PS, I have used these people for full sized boat building materials and they gave me good service.
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: John W E on March 01, 2008, 09:05:36 am: Hi ya there, I am sure that is American White Oak timber - but it could be a wood called Iroco ;D mmmmmm possible. Shane, sometimes when varnished, especially Oaks, & teaks, the natural oil in them comes through and effects the varnishing and polishing. ::) Consequently, it does effect the appearance.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: Proteus on March 01, 2008, 09:55:38 am: Look at this site, The origanal would proberley have been a veneer steam presed to keep it light, I dont think they would have put a 25mm board of that size in a plane, the thing you have to think about is scale of grain. a lot of modelers use Pear as the grain is very fine, if you got a piece of timber ofcut from the original dashboard and machined it to the correct size it woul look nothing like the original because of the grain patern. have a word with a profecinal french polisher, they can tint and bleach most timbers to match.
Fredy

http://www.valeveneers.co.uk/dv.html
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: Proteus on March 01, 2008, 10:15:44 am: Also , they may give you an idea . I think to colour you want is called toffee
Fredy

http://www.britishwoodfloors.co.uk/samples.html
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: Proteus on March 01, 2008, 10:25:28 am: I think this chap may be a member of this site, he may be able to help you.

http://modeltugforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=b8abfd176d43deaf5387f719c383d825&topic=166.0

Fredy

now a full member I hope ::)
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: DickyD on March 01, 2008, 10:46:53 am: Quote from: Shane on February 29, 2008, 11:01:46 pm
Quote
Just looking at it again are you sure this is natural wood grain or is it timber that has been expertly grained to look like oak
I have no idea to be honest but the age of the plane (late 30's early 40's) would they be able to do this ?
I am still of the opinion that it is Walnut . so if you or anyone can send me to a supplier please feel free O0
Shane Graining was done alot in years gone by to a lot of timber i.e.doors skirtings architraves and furniture where the cost of the actual hardwood was prohibitive or it was just unobtainable. You see it quite a lot in stately homes as well as 20s and 30s semis. It is a version of the finish on boatmadmans drifter. If done properly it is very difficult to tell from the real thing.
Sorry to disagree with John but it is definitely not Iroko which is a form of teak.
I do know a little about this as my family have been builders and decorators since the 1850s and I have been a carpenter and joiner for 44 years.
Proteus does have a point though, as he said in the model you are going to need something the same colour but with a smaller grain to allow for the difference in scale.
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: cbr900 on March 01, 2008, 12:45:29 pm: I have in my shed five types of walnut and none are anything like shown, all are darker, but I also have three types of oak and any of the three could be made to look like what is shown.........

Roy
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: tigertiger on March 01, 2008, 01:00:18 pm: Looking at the diagram in Reply #9, it says Light Walnut.

It could be that this is not light coloured Walnut but 'Light Walnut', which might be an American cultivar, which may have very different properties to European Walnut.

Perhaps our American cousins could shed some light on this.

But back to the modelling point that was made earlier. You should scale down the grain, so a different timber would be appropriate if stained the right colour.
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on March 01, 2008, 02:06:04 pm: Thanks for all the replies chaps O0
I take on board what is being said about the grain looking wrong when I reduce the dash size . i didnt think about that before and you are correct .
I have a BIG book of wood here before me and have been looking at a couple that have a much smaller grain ,namely beech and Idigbo .I am thinking of Beech as Its nice and light anyway , has a small grain and takes a good finish . Idigbo I think I was more torn by the very thin grain which does tend to resemble Walnut .
I think a trip to a wood yard is in order to see them in the flesh as it were O0

Shane
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: Bollard on March 01, 2008, 11:49:38 pm: Hi Everyone

Had to put my oar in on this subject. :)

I believe the panel is aluminium with a very tasty pant finish (Shane Graining as in dickyD’s input) this was used frequently for quality aircraft to resemble quality hardwood which of course is very heavy and suffers from extremes of moisture which planes tend to suffer from.

Couple of give-aways in the picture are the 4 pressed bumps on the centre panel, the centre panel appears to have the instruments mounted on a sub frame to allow the period rolled edges, the centre panel appears to have all essential instruments that are standard on all aircraft.

If you look closely at the surface mounted instruments outside the centre panel they are mounted from the rear of the panel showing the panel is only around 1.5mm (1/16) thick, these would probably be instruments custom fitted for the customer hence the flat face fixing with no rolled edge, look around the bottom edge of the artificial horizon instrument (just to the right of the wheel) note the slots for the spindles on the adjustment trimmers.

There are a couple of other items probably the Pan Head screws and also the edge trim is as would be used on the edge of a metal panel.

The shroud over the wheel column looks to be a pressing, again the pan head screws fixing the shroud and also the roll over at the top end.

Hope I'm right or I've got egg on my face :)

In this instance for the model I would look for a veneer with a similar finish scale grain and either bleach or stain to get the right shade.

Hope this helps

Regards
Bollard
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: Proteus on March 02, 2008, 12:33:01 am: Still think it may be a veneer, if you look at car dashboards that are veneered there is no problem doing that sort of Finnish,

Fredy
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: Proteus on March 02, 2008, 02:45:48 am: You are prob aware of this site but I found these pictures that show a wallnut dash in the colour we know as walnut and it looks like it was a paint finnish, :-X ( or fablon :D)

Fredy

http://www.stinsonreliant.com/
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: DickyD on March 02, 2008, 11:42:40 am: Like I said its graining on aluminium or similar. O0
Title: Re: hardwood suppliers ?
Post by: slewis on March 02, 2008, 09:12:55 pm: AWWWWWW Thats peed me off now >:( :'(
I was quite looking forward to carving that out and shining it up :(
You are correct though when looking at that first picture it clearly shows the finish removed or rubbed off .
I had sort of hoped it was veneered at the least ,but it seems not to be .

Thanks for the assistance chaps I am much wiser for it O0

Shane