This is a basic 2mm ply structure covered with 15 though plasticard. Do I really need to tell you how I stuck it on?
Bryan what is the superstructure made from ? Plasticard? If so how thick is the stuff you are using and what do you use to stick it together ?Shane, nice to hear from you. It is a normal "box" made from 2mm ply and covered with 20 or 30 thou. plasticard. All openings (including ports ) are cut out before attaching the plasticard...this makes final accurate cutting possible. The plasticard is cut well oversize and placed over the already prepared ply...which is still in bits...( i.e. double sided tape laid on the ply). Plasticard cut oversize so accurate placement not necessary 'cos if you get it wrong you are back to square 1. Trim the plasticard off leaving a bit at the top to act as an "upstand" and tape a length of black plasticard along the bottom edge to act as a don't know what it is called plate. Brace the inside with 1/4" square ramin top an bottom. Top to take the thickness of the top and the bottom one to give stability and a fastening surface. Same with the vertical corners.
Shane
If you decide to try this tape...comes in lengths of 10 metres plus and is about 2" wide at around £2 a roll, PLEASE experiment with it first! I sticks like the proverbial to the bedclothes only 100 times faster and stronger! 2 years ago I inadvertently stuck some to my "clean" melamine worktop and am still trying to get it off. Meths. does soften it, but not enough as it just hardens up again! No gassing, no bubbling in fact no nothing apart froma superfast "stick anything to anything " bond. Have'nt had ocassion to try it on rubber yet. Bryan.This is a basic 2mm ply structure covered with 15 though plasticard. Do I really need to tell you how I stuck it on?
Yes you do Bryan! :) The last ply/plasticard sandwich I glued together warped and bubbled to a somewhat horrifying degree. What are your favoured adhesives for this type of composite work?
-Rob
I do like the plating, how did you achieve it?See reply 7 Mark O0
Bryan, I may have missed it but what is the name of the tape and where can you get it? Sticking plasticard to traditional materials is frequently a problem for many of us and this looks like areal solution.
Colin
I do like the plating, how did you achieve it?
Would SOMEONE please tell me if they have used the d-s tape I have been advocating for so long. Sureley someone must have given it a go? Or am I just f....ing in the wind. If that is the case then that is the end of it. Whats the point if there is no feedback?We are still waitjng for you to give us the brand name of the tape Bryan. O0
Would SOMEONE please tell me if they have used the d-s tape I have been advocating for so long. Sureley someone must have given it a go? Or am I just f....ing in the wind. If that is the case then that is the end of it. Whats the point if there is no feedback?
At last! A reason for the tape being put on the market in the first place! Car trims. Now why did'nt I know that when building my little red one. Live and learn, I guess.
Must have a look in Halfords tomorrow then. Not hopeful though. I certainly like the idea as it offers the option of being more precise than glue which usually oozes where you don't want it.
Who put on that horrible red print? Yeuch.At last! A reason for the tape being put on the market in the first place! Car trims. Now why did'nt I know that when building my little red one. Live and learn, I guess.
Possibly because you didn't work in a car dealership/repair shop. ;)
I did! ;)Well take it off then! If I want stuff like that I can do it for myself. Cheers. BY.
Is the stuff used by the "auto-industry" thicker than the "domestic" version? The type I use seems to have no discernable thickness whatsoever.Would SOMEONE please tell me if they have used the d-s tape I have been advocating for so long. Sureley someone must have given it a go? Or am I just f....ing in the wind. If that is the case then that is the end of it. Whats the point if there is no feedback?
The point Brian is to get info out there, if people wish to use it then they can, why worry if they don't post, it doesn't effect you building your boats does it? ;) It's nice to watch other people build as I see new ways of doing things that I can use.
By the way I have used d/sided tape for years for sticking window frames/fittings on my lifeboats as it is easy to position them with silicone paper underneath them, then slide it out when happy with the position. Also I use the type the auto industry use for sticking trim parts in place, once on it sticks like the proverbial to a blanket!! Never lost a fitting yet! 8)
Mike
Some are, they are thin foam based, and some aren't. Depends upon what car fitting you are sticking on.In which case modellers should be careful what they choose. I have used the "car-trade" stuff before (to attach a bumper strake along the length of a car) and it is super...but too heavy (thick) for modelling. BY.
man you guys over sea's LOVE the big boats O0
Just a quicklySorry Shane, but what you show is far too thick.The stuff I use is too thin to measure...not that I would want to as it would stick to the micrometer..for ever.
I am in the auto trade and we use a product called re-fix tape for reapplying mouldings and badges etc etc .
Its paper thin and very strong . Indeed the backing paper is thicker than the tape .Its available from Brown brothers and other motor factors as far as I am aware .
Heres a rather bad picture to show its thickness.
Shane ;)
Just a quicklySorry Shane, but what you show is far too thick.The stuff I use is too thin to measure...not that I would want to as it would stick to the micrometer..for ever.
I am in the auto trade and we use a product called re-fix tape for reapplying mouldings and badges etc etc .
Its paper thin and very strong . Indeed the backing paper is thicker than the tape .Its available from Brown brothers and other motor factors as far as I am aware .
Heres a rather bad picture to show its thickness.
Shane ;)
Just a quicklySorry Shane, but what you show is far too thick.The stuff I use is too thin to measure...not that I would want to as it would stick to the micrometer..for ever.
I am in the auto trade and we use a product called re-fix tape for reapplying mouldings and badges etc etc .
Its paper thin and very strong . Indeed the backing paper is thicker than the tape .Its available from Brown brothers and other motor factors as far as I am aware .
Heres a rather bad picture to show its thickness.
Shane ;)
That re-fix tape is about half the thickness of sellotape, as Shane says it's a bad picture. If you don't believe us then go buy some and see for yourself or tell us what super brand you use that is thinner than the motor trade one.
Would ships cranes have been much different from their land based equivalents? Steam was the usual power source in those days so it's likely that the designs were all quite similar.Yeah,Colin. "similar" is about as far as it goes. Also the whole darn thing "swivels" on its base. (Traverses being a better word). And the controls I do not really understand. Oh,woe! Thanks for answering though. BY.
Would ships cranes have been much different from their land based equivalents? Steam was the usual power source in those days so it's likely that the designs were all quite similar.I imagine that they were pretty much identical. Same job, same design. North Shields fish quay used to have some but I cannot find any useful photos of them. The railway systems used them as well, and I believe that there is (or was) at least one kit that would be just about perfect..at least for learning purposes if not scale. If there are any model railway fans "out there" perhaps they could respond. Thanks for the interest. BY.
Is this any good for you??Thanks for trying. I came up with that one as well...Bluebirds entry is getting closer to the real though. BY.http://www.alexdenouden.nl/08/steamcrane01.htm (http://www.alexdenouden.nl/08/steamcrane01.htm)
Interesting though isn't it?Living up here I know Beamish fairly well. The last time I was there I was told that most of the "maritime" collection was still held in a warehouse in Hebburn. Nice thought but no go as yet.
If the crane uses the ships supply how does the crane slew whilst remaining connected? A pipe must run up the middle and have some sort of swivel fitting at the top but a bit limited when you start to think of higher pressures. You can't have steam pipes swivelling around with 10 bar behind it!!
Bryan, not having access to my CV Waine books I wonder if any of them have any steam crane details in them? Anyone got copies to hand, maybe the "Steam Coasters and Short Sea Traders" would be worth a look. What about industrial museums such as Beamish, I suspect some of them would have steam cranes around.
The crane wouldn't necessarily have to be able to slew 360 degrees so a flexible connection would do the job. I wondered about the Waine book as well, bit expensive to buy these days though.I reckon 180 degrees would do the job. I have no idea what pressure it would work at but those Victorians were pretty ingenious with many things so I don't think a bit of steam would put them off much!
I reckon 180 degrees would do the job.
How about this:No way did I treat this as a joke! It just seemed inappropiate. It was really nice of you to spend a bit of time and effort to help. But looking at the pic you posted it is/was not really the sort of thing fitted to ships. I have also trolled Google and have come up with ziltch. I now start doing a re-run of museums. I cannot believe that this was the only ship to be so fitted! No offence meant. BY.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/On30-Operational-Steam-Crane-superb-craftsman-kit_W0QQitemZ290132042542QQihZ019QQcategoryZ485QQcmdZViewItem
Using my local knowledge you will I believe find a number of steam cranes being renovated at Tanfield Railway, although not on their web site you could try contacting them.As you seem to live in Hampshire, but have local knowledge of the Tanfield Railway.....do you originate from the Tanfield area? Surely we are not long lost brothers, or went to school together! BY.
http://tanfield-railway.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
Also if you look on the folowing web site there is a hazy video of ships unloading in Newcastle using steam cranes [the long video]
http://www.ringtonscentenary.co.uk/
:angel:
::)Nice one Bluebird....until I talked to "the Carpenter" I did not know that the circular bit that the wheels run around on is called a "Trod". (as in a trodden path I surmise). Interesting where odd paths can lead!.
I'm having a hell of a job, what's the dfference between JPG and JPEG for posting pictures?Hi. Nice to hear from you again...how is the LSL? Unfortunately your pics show "self-contained" units. As Colin(Bishop) said, this type gets its steam from the ships supply and not from its own boiler. I still think that it is basically a normal steam cargo winch (of its era) but turned on to its back! Ta for the effort though. Cheers. BY.
Anyway........... Hello Bryan,
I have been having a ferret through Google and have come up with these pictures of a steam grab dredge working on one of the canals.
I can well imagine a docker wreathed in gland steam on the fore deck years ago on a crane setup like this. A bit bigger yes but looking much like this.
You may gets some ideas from them.
I had a look through WAINE's STEAM COASTERs & SHORT SEA TRADERS, all swinging derricks or union purchase no steam cranes so far as I can see.
Cheers, Bob Ferguson
Looking good Bryan. Can I ask which brand/type of white paint you have been using? Also is it matt, gloss or satin?Evening, Colin. Depends which bit you are talking about. If it is the rails, then it is a coat of Humbrol Matt followed by a coat of satin. If it is the larger aluminium bits ( only a couple of which I have shown) then I like Halfords radiator paint...primer followed by the top coat (aerosols). The black is generally Humbrol "Satin Coal Black". Lovely deep black. Helpful? Cheers. BY.
Lovely job Bryan, the woodwork looks beautifull and the taff rails are superb.Actually, the pictures are a load of crud and I feel quite embarassed about them. In the "old days" of film photography I could aim the flash to give a reflected and thus softer light. Can't do that now without spending mega-bucks. I think I shall have to go the old traditional way and put various layers of toilet paper over the flash unit to soften it a bit. 2 steps forward and 1 step back it seems!
Actually, the pictures are a load of crud and I feel quite embarassed about them. In the "old days" of film photography I could aim the flash to give a reflected and thus softer light. Can't do that now without spending mega-bucks. I think I shall have to go the old traditional way and put various layers of toilet paper over the flash unit to soften it a bit. 2 steps forward and 1 step back it seems!
Perhaps you can suggest a better "mute" than toilet paper? Cheers. BY.
Actually, the pictures are a load of crud and I feel quite embarassed about them. In the "old days" of film photography I could aim the flash to give a reflected and thus softer light. Can't do that now without spending mega-bucks. I think I shall have to go the old traditional way and put various layers of toilet paper over the flash unit to soften it a bit. 2 steps forward and 1 step back it seems!
And you aren't the only one. I've been a photographer, sometimes semi-professional, all my life, and I thought that when I finally went digital, I'd find the changeover fairly easy, especially since almost all my film work was with transparencies where the exposure tolerance is virtually zero. Wrong, wrong, wrong, it's like starting all over again, there's so much new stuff to learn, white balance for example. I'm doing fairly well with digital photography now, but it hasn't been easy, and I was almost back to being a beginner at first, 'acceptable pics' are easy, but 'good pics' of difficult subjects, especially in bad light, certainly aren't. The good thing about digital though, is that you can take lots and lots of pics, see instant results, and progress through learning from your mistakes.
I'm having a hell of a job, what's the dfference between JPG and JPEG for posting pictures?As far as I can tell JPG and JPEG are much of a muchness. But stick with JPG for general use. You should be able to programme your camera to take all shots in this format. The problem of format change (in my experience) only happens when you duplicate the original for editing purposes and then save the duplicate. Trial and error I'm afraid! BY.
Anyway........... Hello Bryan,
I have been having a ferret through Google and have come up with these pictures of a steam grab dredge working on one of the canals.
I can well imagine a docker wreathed in gland steam on the fore deck years ago on a crane setup like this. A bit bigger yes but looking much like this.
You may gets some ideas from them.
I had a look through WAINE's STEAM COASTERs & SHORT SEA TRADERS, all swinging derricks or union purchase no steam cranes so far as I can see.
Cheers, Bob Ferguson
Mike,
Shooting in RAW can be a bit of a palaver when you come to process the images. .
Colin
Perhaps you can suggest a better "mute" than toilet paper? Cheers. BY.
Mike,I am considering......Nope. What you suggest is probably pretty good for the exterior. Or have I read you wrong? I like "open boats" so the planking shows on both sides. I think I need more info. on your method before I make up my mind. Good brain training though! BY.
Shooting in RAW can be a bit of a palaver when you come to process the images. You can still edit JPEG files in photoshop to make worthwhile improvements. At the ME Exhibition I was helping Dave Abbot with the "studio" shots. He got excellent results using HQ JPEGS with a CANON 20D. I suppose it's a question as to how far you want to take the search for perfection, especially bearing in mind that if the final result is published in a magazine or similar then a lot of the definition will be lost anyway.
Bryan,
Have you considered using gummed paper strip over a plasticard shell? It's very easy to simulate clinker planking and because the gummed paper shrinks slightly on drying you get a nice tight result. Finish off with sanding sealer of shellac and it will take a superb finish. You can fit out the interior the same way. It's very easy to do and dries overnight.
Colin
Completely agree Bryan, a superb model and a pleasure to see it coming together. The woodwork is starting to look just right and the bridge area so typical of the period.What scale is the model in the pics? Gratings are a real pain in the tripes to get anywhere near right. As most gratings I have ever seen have a 1" "hole" and 1" timbers. The ready made things I have seen in model shops always seem to have a grating large enough to lose your foot in. At 1:48 the size will lie somewhere between 1/32" and 1/64". I have done it in the past but never again...life is too short!...the gangway gratings on Havelock were made many years ago for another model, came in useful eventually. The copper mesh notion seems to look "OK"(ish) but as it is only one detail out of many I will leave it "as is"...pics later when the compass is fitted. A pity that your reply came just that little bit too late otherwise I would have tried it! Sounds a better idea than mine...if the grating has the 1" holes! Cheers. Bryan.
As for your gratings, when I tried to make white metal gratings appear as natural wood I painted them first with a Humbrol matt buff and then a Ronseal stained varnish over the top. You can of course play around with the colour of the stained varnish to get the shade you are after and the matt buff gives a good key for it and shows through the varnish a litle to give some shading. Have a play, it might be what you are looking for.
I did the wheel and the gratings here with this technique.
Bryan, I have been thinking about making masts for my coaster now for some time, greatly complicated by the fact that I want to run a couple of wires up them for the mast head light. I have thought about and will be trying the following.There is always a grey-line somewhere! However, instead of drilling up the masts, have you considered using 2 lines of conductive paint, then you can just "paint" over them and still have the wiring?...
I am going to cut the dowel up into short lengths of about 3-4 inches long then drill a hole down the centre. I am then going to thread the pieces down a brass tube that will form the cable conduit and glue them together onto the tube. As I get to the reduction in diameter I am going to turn the dowel down slightly piece by piece until the top section which should be slightly over sized for the end. I will then have a piece of stepped section dowel with a brass tube up the middle.
I will then simply sand it down until the stepped sections become smooth, which, If I have got the reduction in diameter right should form the correct taper. I have the advantage of a small lathe for drilling the centre holes true but I am sure that this could also be done with a drill press or even a pistol drill and a clamping arrangement.
Now let me get this right, you are scratch building but your are going to farm out the mast tapering, whereas I am making a kit but I am going to do it myself..........from scratch!!! O0
Sorry, I couldn't help it. It doesn't change the fact that I have the greatest respect for you as a ship model builder but it made me smile to see the grey line between kit and scratch building blurred yet again.
For us less informed, how are you maintaining the tension on the assembly? I notice in the photo that you have usedThis is purely a "mock-up" to show the run of the falls. In "real" life (and on a model) the upper block is shackled to an eye on the davit.
a rigid 'Jig' to string them up, have you soaked the 'ropes' in glue or something to maintain the shape for fitting?
Was thinking about the springback? ?
She's looking really good Bryan.Thanks Colin. But sometimes....sometimes...sitting looking at the thing for days on end, there is a feeling of "why?". This is the downside. Other times you can look at what you have done and think "did I do that?" How? I don't know, it all just sems to come together and happen. And all because you told me yonks ago not to be "coy" about my building methods! I don't really have any "methods" as such. I look at earlier models and wonder if I could do things differently (better, preferably) and so have a go. I guess this is what can be termed "experience"....but I do find that some modellers tend to get stuck into an outdated routine and so produce models that may have been "good" 20 years ago, but are now no more than average (or less). I was castigated many months ago for stating that the "Forum" could be a useful jumping-off point for "improving the breed". My attitude has not changed.
Bryan, she is looking superb and I can't wat to see her on the water.Being an Engineer, I presume you polished the brass plate? In "the good old days" I reckon you could eat a dinner off the bottom plates. (We "deckies" used to just polish the stuff).
I must admit though I do all my propulsion layout in an empty hull before building the model up simply because although I want to be able to remove it all it is still easier to fit it all into an empty hull. I then prefer to keep openings to the minimum to allow easy access for future removal. In fact my coaster has flat steel plate as ballast, covered in resin and then finished with a brass plate to mount all the plant to which wouldn't fit through my openings!
It is still interesting to see alternative methods of construction though and we can all learn something from other methods of construction.
Nearly finished Bryan? Just needs a rudder by the look of it - and a bow thruster of course....For this vessel, Colin, the bow thruster is more commonly known as a finger.
Amazing Bryan, I put that crane on here yesterday and you haven't had a go at me yet. ;)Dicky, I have never had a real go at you...differences of opinion, yes. To be really truthful, I had forgotten about the Q&A page. Sorry, slapped wrist and all that. I shall remember in future. The pic is excellent and very useful. It was the idea of having a model with steam cranes mounted that inspired the entire build...little did I realise that the same cranes would be the biggest bugbear and create the most hassle, as well as giving me a few laughs. If I can get the cranes (and 2 more boats done she should be finished by the time Ellesmere comes around again. As it is, she will probably be at Harrogate as "a model under construction". This under a mild form of duress from other TMBC members that included amputation of body parts that are underused. Ta again. Now all I have to do is scale the pic. Bryan.
Yeah, you are correct in that they look like measuring spoons...but can you imagine going into a chemists (or whoever sells these things) and asking for a one that fits your scale? Having said that, I think you may have a point as I imagine that they do come in different sizes. I do hope that I haven't spent ages re-inventing the wheel! Nice thought. BY.
Hi Brian
Reminds me of the measuring spoons that mothers use to make baby's feed in milk. They have a semi circular bowl on the end almost exactly like your production. Just a thought to see if they might do the job.
Ken
Not sure how to answer that one. If you are going to build "Waverley" then you must have plans etc. for it. On those plans there will be at the very least a profile of the vents. As the vent "bowl" as you call it is a diameter then the vertical size will be the same as the horizontal. I would imagine from looking at pics of Waverley that the "open" end of the vents are in the region of 5 feet dia. cheers. BY.
What would be the required diameter of the 'bowl' end, Brian. I'm in the throe's of grandchildren and will make enquiries.
I also need to make these for my proposed Waverley build in the summer. (scale 1/32)
Cheers
Ken
Probably a bit less than that I think.Yep, you're right again....but knowing absolutely nothing about the Waverley that is printable my comment was just an uninformed guess. I keep forgetting that she was built relatively recently (1947? ish). BY.
Colin
I am pretty sure now that I have made mine too large. But as no-one else has a clue...nor a set of plans...being a ship built in 1895...who is going to quibble? (Me for one). I still like the idea of modifying measuring spoons, really could have saved me a fortune in rumination whilst consuming the McEwans Export.
Thanks Brian.
I was referring to 'your' construction, and wondered if the bowl's size could be matched to 'baby powdered milk' spoons
I have yet to receive the plans and kit for mine, but judging by the pictures, they look the sort of size you could 'Stow away' on ;D
Cheers...Ken
By the way, can someone tell me what the difference is between a heater motor and a "Barracuda"? They look the same.
Bryan
Whoops! Posted originally on your build thread - sorry :embarrassed:Many thanks Gary.
The best boat construction I've seen so far on any site - Fact. O0 and there are lots of fantastic boats on this site.
Gives me butterflies in the belly and turns me green with envy, yet something to aspire to.
Beautiful boat Bryan.
regards
Gary :)
Quote from: Bryan Young.By the way, can someone tell me what the difference is between a heater motor and a "Barracuda"? They look the same.
Bryan
The heater motor is an electrical gubbins and the "Barracuda" is a fish. Sorry. :embarrassed:
[/quote
Still waiting for a more tunaful answer.
This may have been asked and i may have missed it. why do you build a wooden hull to lay a fibreglass one why not just stick with a wooden hull?1. Long life for the hull.