Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: DickyD on April 25, 2008, 10:19:01 am
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The world's largest cruise ship, Independence of the Seas, arrived in Southampton this morning,
Measuring 1,112ft long and weighing in at 160,000 tons, the latest addition to Royal Caribbean International's fleet of megaships will be at the centre of seven days of celebrations, including an exclusive performance by chart favourites Scouting for Girls.
The spectacular new ship - longer than three-and-a-half football pitches - is unlike any other to have operated in UK waters in both size and on-board facilities. If standing up on her bow she would dwarf Britain's tallest building, the 771ft One Canada Square at London's Canary Wharf.
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Featuring an ice rink, climbing wall and surfing simulator, the ship's Main Street - complete with bars, cafes, shops and restaurants - is longer than the pitch at the new Wembley Stadium.
Independence of the Seas can accommodate more than 4,300 guests and will undertake a summer-long programme of voyages to the Mediterranean, the Canary Islands and Ireland before leaving for the Caribbean in the winter.
Industry body the Passenger Shipping Association forecasts that 1.55million British passengers will take a cruise holiday in 2008, an increase of 14 per cent compared with last year.
Video http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/video/video/index.var.25481.0.0.php
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Are they paying you to do their advertising Richard ? :D
Don
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Are they paying you to do their advertising Richard ? :D
Don
No Don I dont even like the flaming things. Too big and not ships just floating hotels. Plus you get three of these things in on one day, disembarking and embarking you should see the flaming traffic. >>:-( Just happen to live not far from the docks and thought it might be of interest. ;)
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According to the Telegraph, passengers are 'encouraged' to take part in the many on board activities by constant tannoy broadcasts.
I'd pay a lot of money for that! (Hi de hi)
I wonder how she handles in rough weather?
Doug
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According to the Telegraph, passengers are 'encouraged' to take part in the many on board activities by constant tannoy broadcasts.
I'd pay a lot of money for that! (Hi de hi)
I wonder how she handles in rough weather?
Doug
Looks like she'll fall over in a cross wind Doug. Remains to be seen.
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If you mated an alien spaceship with an aircraft carrier and painted the result white, you would get something that resembles the monstrosity floating block of flats thats pictured above. UGH!!!! :o
bring back the old style design of cruise liner >>:-( O0
Jay
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According to the Telegraph, passengers are 'encouraged' to take part in the many on board activities by constant tannoy broadcasts.
I'd pay a lot of money for that! (Hi de hi)
I wonder how she handles in rough weather?
Doug
Looks like she'll fall over in a cross wind Doug. Remains to be seen.
Aren't the captains briefed to avoid all weather over a stiff breeze?
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The world's largest cruise ship, Independence of the Seas, arrived in Southampton this morning,
Measuring 1,112ft long and weighing in at 160,000 tons, the latest addition to Royal Caribbean International's fleet of megaships will be at the centre of seven days of celebrations, including an exclusive performance by chart favourites Scouting for Girls.
The spectacular new ship - longer than three-and-a-half football pitches - is unlike any other to have operated in UK waters in both size and on-board facilities. If standing up on her bow she would dwarf Britain's tallest building, the 771ft One Canada Square at London's Canary Wharf.
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Featuring an ice rink, climbing wall and surfing simulator, the ship's Main Street - complete with bars, cafes, shops and restaurants - is longer than the pitch at the new Wembley Stadium.
Independence of the Seas can accommodate more than 4,300 guests and will undertake a summer-long programme of voyages to the Mediterranean, the Canary Islands and Ireland before leaving for the Caribbean in the winter.
Industry body the Passenger Shipping Association forecasts that 1.55million British passengers will take a cruise holiday in 2008, an increase of 14 per cent compared with last year.
Video http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/video/video/index.var.25481.0.0.php
I presume the "tonnage" you quote is the "gross" tonnage which is in fact Not a "ton" but a measurement of volume (100cu.ft = 1"ton") and is therefore mainly empty space...and liners/cruise ships/ferries etc have a lot of that. Be more interesting if it was the "displacement" tonnage that was quoted.
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I'll join the chorus of voices who don't like modern cruise ship designs. Impressive she most certainly is, but beautiful or stylish - I think not. Just have a look at the pix of the 3 Queens together. QE2 - that's style and class. QM2 is not my favourite by a long way but she's way better than QV, which is just another block of flats in Cunard livery.
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big but what about that new cruise ship there building in finland it 220 00 tones thats mad and to say ugly.
john
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big but what about that new cruise ship there building in finland it 220 00 tones thats mad and to say ugly.
john
The latest RCI generation of ships is indeed 220,000 tons displacement and so will be considerably bigger than the one above.
The Genesis class of ship is going to a whole new level with areas resembling a park and all sorts of new ideas.
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I was in Cobh ( queenstown ) Co. Cork on Wednesday, and the "Bountiful of the Seas" was tied up alongside the heritage centre which is home to the Titanic exhibition, and I thought that was a large vessel, but gawd almighty, I'd get lost on that one, never to be seen again!!
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Although I still cannot bring myself to like them, I am beginning to understand the reasons behind them. I think it is because they are floating hotels, but without seeing the same beach every day. No need to hire a car. Not being there long enough to get seriously miffed by "the yobs next door" sort of thing. I still have reservations about passenger reactions in the event of a "mishap".
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Bryan,
Obviously things move on and I think you might be pleasantly surprised with some of the changes in the cruise industry. I agree a lot of us, including me, have reservations as to how 2, 3 or even 4,000 passengers and crew would react in such an emergency but in the industries defence I have to say that the equipment has come a long way, such as much faster launching boats as well as fully enclosed units nowadays as well. Also I think crew training has come on a lot in the last few years and boat drills are taken far more seriously but how effective this would be in the event I wouldn't like to say.
Trained officers is one thing but youngsters on passenger evacuation duties with english as a second language and only a couple of years out of school remains to be seen. Also of course there have been advancements in ship construction with all passenger vessels now "Two Compartment" ships with cross flooding ducts to keep them upright as they go down.
Strangely enough though the last two recent sinkings of passenger ships both seem to have gone down with significant lists so whether there was something going on or whether any mistakes were made I couldn't say.
Take the plunge and do a cruise, you might like it!!
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Take the plunge
That's what I'd hope to avoid {-) {-)
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A ship the size of the Genesis class will effectively swamp any port she visits if everyone goes ashore which will completely spoil the experience.
Vessels of this size should be regarded as a resort in their own right with all facilities provided on board. Fine if you like that sort of thing but in my view, cruising it is not!
Colin
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these is what they reckon she will look like
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Bryan,
Obviously things move on and I think you might be pleasantly surprised with some of the changes in the cruise industry. I agree a lot of us, including me, have reservations as to how 2, 3 or even 4,000 passengers and crew would react in such an emergency but in the industries defence I have to say that the equipment has come a long way, such as much faster launching boats as well as fully enclosed units nowadays as well. Also I think crew training has come on a lot in the last few years and boat drills are taken far more seriously but how effective this would be in the event I wouldn't like to say.
Trained officers is one thing but youngsters on passenger evacuation duties with english as a second language and only a couple of years out of school remains to be seen. Also of course there have been advancements in ship construction with all passenger vessels now "Two Compartment" ships with cross flooding ducts to keep them upright as they go down.
Strangely enough though the last two recent sinkings of passenger ships both seem to have gone down with significant lists so whether there was something going on or whether any mistakes were made I couldn't say.
Take the plunge and do a cruise, you might like it!!
I'm sure I would love it....but on one of the "little ones" that only have 200 or 300 passengers. I like the smaller ports, I don't like the masses queing up for meals. If I want to gamble I will go (again) to Las Vegas because I loved the honesty of the phoneyness. Also, I want to be aboard a ship that looks and feels like a ship. Count me out as far as the big ones are concerned...unless you offer me a "freebie"! Bryan.
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In a nice kind of friendly way I would like to challenge Bunkers statement that the Genesis class is over 200,000 tons displacement. At first reading I was inclined to believe that...although horrified. A more recent post by Cos918 tells a different story. From the pics he has posted the "Freedom" class is physically not all that much smaller than the "Genesis"...although the "Genesis" has more decks and therefore "taller", i.e. more empty space and therefore more gross tonnage. That is apparent in the other pic that does state gross tonnage. The "Freedom" is only bigger than QM2 because of more internal space. 7,000gross tons of it which equals 700,000 more cubic feet of revenue (cargo) space. Sorry, Bunker, but I just cannot believe that 220,000 tons displacement is correct...willing to be horrified and wrong (again) though!. Bryan.
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A quick look at "Wickie" indicates that:
Queen Mary 2: Gross Tonnage 148,000; Displacement 76,000 tons
Freedom of the Seas: Gross Tonnage 154,000; Displacement 64,000 tons
Genesis Class: Gross Tonnage 220,000; Displacement 100,000 tons
Nimitz class aircraft carrier: Displacement 101,000 tons full load!
Looks like the US "Flat Top" trumps them all as far as displacement is concerned.
Colin
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Bryan,
Obviously things move on and I think you might be pleasantly surprised with some of the changes in the cruise industry. I agree a lot of us, including me, have reservations as to how 2, 3 or even 4,000 passengers and crew would react in such an emergency but in the industries defence I have to say that the equipment has come a long way, such as much faster launching boats as well as fully enclosed units nowadays as well. Also I think crew training has come on a lot in the last few years and boat drills are taken far more seriously but how effective this would be in the event I wouldn't like to say.
Trained officers is one thing but youngsters on passenger evacuation duties with english as a second language and only a couple of years out of school remains to be seen. Also of course there have been advancements in ship construction with all passenger vessels now "Two Compartment" ships with cross flooding ducts to keep them upright as they go down.
Strangely enough though the last two recent sinkings of passenger ships both seem to have gone down with significant lists so whether there was something going on or whether any mistakes were made I couldn't say.
Take the plunge and do a cruise, you might like it!!
It's the "plunge" bit that worries me!
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I agree with BY, cruising is not for me. I once went on one of those slab sided ferries which ply from Holyhead to Ireland and did not like looking down a vertical wall to the sea.
By contrast I crossed the Atlantic in 1968 on the QE. Wonderful and when everyone was being seasick I went to the swimming pool and enjoyed the water sloshing out at each end as the ship rolled. The lifeguard was bored sensless and willingly taught me to dive. So that's my claim to fame, learnt to dive on the QE in mid-Atlantic!
Roger in France.
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Once again on this forum we appear to have hit on a subject that is (at the least) confusing to the layman. Tonnage. The Newspapers always go for the biggest number 'cos it looks better. But they never,ever say what tonnage they are talking about.
So. Starting at the top end of the scale:- DISPLACEMENT TONNAGE is the quantity (in real tons) of water displaced by a ship when she is floating at her Load Draught. DEADWEIGHT TONNAGE is the tonnage of cargo,stores etc. that she is capable of carrying at her loaded draught. GROSS TONNAGE is a measure of space (100 c/ft per ton). NET TONNAGE is an oddball one in that it is Gross tonnage minus allowances for the engine room, crew spaces and navigational spaces. Making sense yet? It therefore follows that a "cruise liner" will have a huge "Gross Tonnage" as that space is classified as a "cargo space" (and passengers are classified as cargo..like it or not). Naval ships (the RN, anyway) are measured in Net tons as basically their draught does'nt change all that much..and they don't pay insurance either. Hope that clears things up a bit! BY.
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Tour of the ship. BBC - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7373987.stm
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Bryan, one thing we never had to do on QE2 was queue up for food. We ate in the Mauretania restaurant, one of 5 restaurants on board, (the others are Caronia, Britannia, Queens Grill and the Princess Grill) and the lowest category (you are assigned a restaurant according to the level of your accommodation, and as we were in the "cheap seats" so to speak, we were assigned the Mauretania). The food was excellent, the service fantastic, and all table service. The Lido and the Pavilion are two additional bistro type eateries where anyone can go, but we only did so twice. We felt we would rather be served by a waiter (or waitress) than join a queue, besides, the Lido was always quite noisy. All food, wherever it was eaten, was included in the price of your ticket, and that goes for cabin service too. I don't think I would like to be on one of the new super cruise ships, with over 4000 passengers, I saw a documentary about one of them, and it looked wall to wall people. QE2 had just over 1700 passengers, with around 1000 crew, a good ratio.
Peter
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Bryan, one thing we never had to do on QE2 was queue up for food. We ate in the Mauretania restaurant, one of 5 restaurants on board, (the others are Caronia, Britannia, Queens Grill and the Princess Grill) and the lowest category (you are assigned a restaurant according to the level of your accommodation, and as we were in the "cheap seats" so to speak, we were assigned the Mauretania). The food was excellent, the service fantastic, and all table service. The Lido and the Pavilion are two additional bistro type eateries where anyone can go, but we only did so twice. We felt we would rather be served by a waiter (or waitress) than join a queue, besides, the Lido was always quite noisy. All food, wherever it was eaten, was included in the price of your ticket, and that goes for cabin service too. I don't think I would like to be on one of the new super cruise ships, with over 4000 passengers, I saw a documentary about one of them, and it looked wall to wall people. QE2 had just over 1700 passengers, with around 1000 crew, a good ratio.
Peter
I did mean it as rather "tongue in cheek"...but point made. BY.
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hi all. These ships are all small compared to this if they ever build it.
john
http://www.freedomship.com/freedomship/gallery/gallery.shtml
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See pics and specs of the 2 ships in question.
Independence of the Seas
General characteristics
Class and type: Freedom Class
Tonnage: 154,407 GT (gross tonnage)[2]
Length: 338.92 m (1,111.9 ft)[3]
Beam: 38.6 m (127 ft) hull
56 m (180 ft) extreme width of superstructure
Draught: 8.8 m (29 ft)[3]
Decks: 15 (passenger); 3 (crew)
Propulsion: Diesel-electric (kW)/4 pods
Speed: 21.6 knots (40 km/h)
Capacity: 4,370 passengers
Crew: 1,360 crew
Queen Mary 2
General characteristics
Tonnage: 148,528 GT[2]
Displacement: 76,000 tonnes (approx)
Length: 345 m (1,132 ft)
Beam: 41 m (135 ft) waterline,
45 m (147.6 ft) extreme (bridge wings)
Height: 72 m (236.2 ft) keel to funnel
Draft: 10 m (32.8 ft)
Decks: 13 passenger decks[3]
Installed power: 117 MW (157,000 horsepower) CODAG
Propulsion: Four 21.5 MW electric propulsor pods:
2 fixed and 2 azimuthing
Speed: 29.62 knots (54.86 km/h/34.09 mph)[4]
Capacity: 2,620 passengers
Crew: 1,253 officers and crew
Specs were taken from wikipedia
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So all in all she is shorter, thinner, heavier, taller, slower and most inportantly UGLIER then the Queen Mary 2.
Yet the Independence has twice the guests to the same amount of staff as the QM 2 ???
The words "whats the point" spring to mind ::)
Jay
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The picture below makes an interesting comparison. The bigger ship is Costa Mediterranea, the second one Thomson Celebration (ex Holland America Noordam of 1984)
Dimensions:
Costa Mediterranea: Length: 292.5m, Beam: 32.2m, Draught: 7.8m, Gross tonnage: 85,700, Passengers: 2,680, Crew: 902
Thomson Celebration: Length: 214.66m, Beam: 27.26m, Draught: 7.5m, Gross Tonnage: 33,930, Passengers: 1,250, Crew: 520
Note that the draught of the two ships is almost the same. The old Queen Mary which has a slightly less gross tonnage than Costa Mediterranea has a draught of almost 12m. It does make you wonder about the stability of these new giant cruise ships which seem to sit on the water rather than in it.
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Colin, They are designed this way by distribution of weight, i.e. all heavy machinery at the bottom and all upper structures made as light as possible by use of such materials as fibre glass. Even funnels nowadays are made of fibre glass.
This is all to enable the ships to get along side as many ports as possible of course but the main down side is that they have relatively little resistance to wind on the beam.
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A couple more of "Independence" and one of the interior of "Genesis". Note that the tonnages quoted are "Gross".
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Bunkerbarge, yes I appreciate what you say. I just wonder if there is any analogy with the "form stability" issue with modern yachts. These are built wide and shallow to give good accommodation and are initially very "stiff" due to the hull form factor but they do not make such good seaboats as more traditional designs and can be quite vulnerable in extreme weather conditions. There have been a number of instances of capsizes when the initial resistance to heeling has been overcome.
But of course modern cruise ships will "dodge" bad weather wherever possible whereas traditional liners on fixed routse and schedules had no option but to cope with whatever conditions they encountered.
Colin
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I have been reading the comments about cruise ships with interest. My only experience was in crossing Southampton to New York in 1968 on the "Queen Elizabeth". If it was not for the food and the booze I would have been bored silly. The highlight was going on a tour of the engine spaces and standing at the "Emergency Steering Station" (the photo never came out!). Only two passengers signed up for the tour!
Now you show a picture of a garden and lawns on a cruise ship, great Scot! Why do folk go on cruises?
Roger in France.
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Good question Roger. There are a number of reasons I think. The very large cruise ships are really destinations in their own right (and designed to separate you from your money!). I think the ports of call are secondary attractions in many cases. A lot depends on the nature of the ship and the itinerary. My recent trip round the Baltic took in six ports in six countries and was a very good way of getting just a taste of a number of very different places in a way that would be difficult and prohibitively expensive to do by any other method. For example, we spent a day in Tallinn in Estonia which was enough to see the town which is an architectural gem. The palaces in St Petersburg were mindblowing, in Stockholm we visited the Vasa while in Copenhagen the highlight was a boat trip around the canal system. Taking a cruise like that means that you can pack a heck of a lot into a short period of time. Likewise, if you go to Norway, a cruise ship is the best vantage point to appreciate the incredible scenery.
Then there are river cruises. We have been up the Rhine which was very good but the classic Nile cruise is sopmething you can never forget, another world altogether.
On the other hand I would be doubtful about some of the Carribean cruises which stop at a "different" island every day - along with several other ships which swamp the ports with passengers.
As always, the best thing is to do your homework and decide which ship and itinerary is most likely to meet what you want. Horses for courses really.
Colin
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. Most of these new monsters can only get in to a few of the port on the carribean islands. So in the itinerary/broacher you get they might say they are calling at island x and y but the stay 1 out of shore. Now try and get 4000+ passengers in to an island via tender ,ant going to happen. So a cruise from Florida to the carribean calling at 3 islands might mean the only shore you touch is the us coast. Also when these monster dock they can cause havoc in towns because suddenly there is 4000+ people come in from the dock.
Heres a quick question what the difference between an ocean liner and a cruise ship.
john
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John, my understanding of the difference between an ocean liner and a cruise ship is an ocean liner is designed to sail between two ports in the shortest possible time, whereas a cruise ship does just that - it cruises, in a much more leisurely fashion. The classic ocean liners were used on the trans Atlantic run, and competition between rival companies to see who could cross in the shortest time was quite intense. The ship holding the fastest crossing time was awarded the Blue Riband. The first Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth were such liners, and faced competition from ships such as SS France, and SS United States. I think the SS United States was the last ship to hold the Blue Riband, but I am open to correction on that. The QE2 is generally regarded as the last of the true ocean liners, but even she was built with cruising in mind, a fact that stood her in good stead when jet aircraft became the principal form of fast travel.
A curious piece of trivia concerns the number of funnels some of the early liners had. Apparently the widely held belief at the time was the more funnels a ship had, the safer and more powerful it was, so some vessels, for example Mauretania, had 4 funnels, one of which was a dummy. Even the SS United States while having only 1 funnel, this was made disproportionately large, to give the appearance of great power.
Peter.
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The things you learn on Mayhem!
Thanks for the replies to my question, which was largely rhetorical.
I know what you mean, Colin, about swamping an island with tourists. our second son lives on the tiny island of Dominica (not the Dom. Rep.). The island has incredibly deep water right beside the jetty which is also one of the main streets of the capital, Roseau. The cruise ships, tower over the largely single story buildings and the tourists flock down the gangplanks almost taking over the city. It has it's plus side for the locals, they now where to stand to sell their ganja!
Roger in France.
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Peter, You are quite correct with your funnel and power comparissons, even the Titanic had one funnel that was purely for ventilation and not for propulsion exhaust.
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Bunkerbarge, the info regarding funnels etc came from an author and maritime historian called William H. (Bill) Miller Jr, who has written a number of very informative books on liners. He gave several lectures on the history of trans Atlantic liners on board QE2 during our recent trip on her and was a very interesting speaker, having had a lifetime interest in the big ships. Apparently he grew up just across the river from the docks in New York, and recalls the hey days of the passenger liners during his childhood. His lectures were accompanied by numerous slides of many of the great ships, and I found them to be fascinating. I bought one of his books whilst on board, called "The QE2, A Picture History", published this year, and it is excellent.
Peter.
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Peter, I have just bought a book called "QE2 Fourty Years Famous" by Carol Thatcher, which is very much a warts and all history of the ship. It brings back all the memories of the bomb threat, initial turbine problems, details of refits etc..etc.. An excellent book and well worth it if you can get a copy.
It also makes you realise just how close we were to not getting her at all.
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Yes, I bought the Thatcher book too - it's a good read.
Just to put the record straight, the United States had two funnels. But they were both big and they both worked as the ship was fitted with the same propulsion plant used in the US Navy's giant post war aircraft carriers. This is what gave her a speed approaching 40 knots, some say even more.
The picture below is a selection of "real" liners from my 1:1250th scale collection. The case hangs on my wall like a picture and I never tire of comparing the different ships.
Colin
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i have that book to . top read but you wont find one like mine. It got all the top crew and at lot of the rest of the of the crew of the QE2 in it, 4 pages worth. There was a copy of that book on Ebay went for £20 with carol thatcher signature in. Bargin as the books rrp is £25
john
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Colin, I stand corrected re the number of funnels United States had, of course it was 2.
Bunkerbarge, Carol Thatcher was actually on the QE2 as a guest speaker during our cruise, and I got to talk to her in a lift going down to the cabins. She was promoting and signing her book about the QE2 that you mentioned, which I regret to say I didn't buy, mainly because we were concerned about weight as we had to fly home from England. There were some marvellous books on ships for sale in the on board book shop, but I had to resist temptation and only bought the one by Bill Miller, which he signed for me. It is an A4 size paperback, so not too heavy. I have a book by Janette McCutcheon also about the QE2, which I got through Amazon before we went on the cruise.
Peter.
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With reference to trained staff for lifeboat stations, when I updated my own last, we had stewardess's from the pass boats on the course. It was interesting as we had to whisper to them how to drive the boat in the practical exam. Apparently when one of the girls was promoted to bar manager she had to do the course to keep the job as she was in charge of loading and launching 4 x 50 man life rafts. As now the term for taking charge of lifeboats etc is no longer qualified seaman but a qualified person. The course is about 6 days.
For a functional holiday complex they are not bad, I mean if you are on her you cannot see outboard in ! an I expect she can go in the same weather as the QE2 or else she would not get a loadline certificate.
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well here a few photo/pitchers of the worlds largest cruise ship.
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a few more
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It looks more like a shopping centre than a ship. ;D
Peter.
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yer it like a mobile shopping centre . Bet they put up a sign NO BALL GAMES OR SKATE BOARDS. mm that last photo would be wrong then.
john
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As a bit of an afterthought on this thread, I was re reading Philip Dawson's book on cruise ships and was interested to see that modern vessels are measured on a different basis to the method previously used and this inflates the gross tonnage figures. Had the old Queen
Mary been measured on the current basis she would probably compare quite well to the latest 100,000 tonners.
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Colin, with all the various ways of expressing the size of a ship in tonnage, a more meaningful way would be the dimensions of the particular vessel, i.e., overall length, beam, and height above the waterline. This method allows us to visualise the sheer size of some of the modern ships.
Peter.
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Very true Peter, and that is why I never tire of looking at my 1:1250 scale waterline models - the comparisons are fascinating. I'm afraid I can't bring myself to buy one of the modern cruise ships though, at £100 a pop, although I might indulge in a Queen Mary 2 as I have the three earlier Cunard Queens. Unfortuntately, of the two currently on the market one is not really up to standard and the other is very good but costs around £200!
When comparing dimensions it's also worth remembering that modern ships rarely draw more than 8 metres while older liners have much deeper draughts so the correct comparison would probably be height above keel. I suppose you could also work out a rough block coefficient based on the hull dimensions but the older ships were more fine lined which would distort things a bit.
The funny thing is that having seen the old Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and also some of the new ships of similar nominal tonnage, there is no question at all in my mind as to which look the most majestic and impressive!
Colin
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Very true Peter, and that is why I never tire of looking at my 1:1250 scale waterline models - the comparisons are fascinating. I'm afraid I can't bring myself to buy one of the modern cruise ships though, at £100 a pop, although I might indulge in a Queen Mary 2 as I have the three earlier Cunard Queens. Unfortuntately, of the two currently on the market one is not really up to standard and the other is very good but costs around £200!
When comparing dimensions it's also worth remembering that modern ships rarely draw more than 8 metres while older liners have much deeper draughts so the correct comparison would probably be height above keel. I suppose you could also work out a rough block coefficient based on the hull dimensions but the older ships were more fine lined which would distort things a bit.
The funny thing is that having seen the old Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and also some of the new ships of similar nominal tonnage, there is no question at all in my mind as to which look the most majestic and impressive!
Colin
Colin, although I have to agree with you, surely it is now "horses for courses". Perhaps with the recent imposition of "rip-off" air fares the liner could make a come-back. Nice, but I won't hold my breath. Bryan.
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Yes Bryan, it is. But I think there may future in the future be a more clear divergence between the resort ship concept where the ship is an end in itself and the ports of call merely incidental (if you can get off the thing!) and the smaller ships which hold to the more traditional concept of cruising. As Philip Dawson points out in his book the 20/20 ships have never really gone away. By that he means 20,000 tons and 20 knots. Cruising is a big market and there is room for different varieties of the product. When we called at Tallinn a few weeks back we had the whole day ashore, nearly 8 hours off the ship and felt we'd seen the place including lunch in an open air cafe and a tram ride out to a park on the environs. By contrast a 90,000 ton Costa ship came in at lunchtime and departed at the same time we did. Her passengers had maybe 4 hours ashore at most and we saw their "walking parties" being chivvied round from one "must see" sight to the next at a great rate of knots. Not my idea of a holiday!
Colin
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Very true Peter, and that is why I never tire of looking at my 1:1250 scale waterline models - the comparisons are fascinating. I'm afraid I can't bring myself to buy one of the modern cruise ships though, at £100 a pop, although I might indulge in a Queen Mary 2 as I have the three earlier Cunard Queens. Unfortuntately, of the two currently on the market one is not really up to standard and the other is very good but costs around £200!
When comparing dimensions it's also worth remembering that modern ships rarely draw more than 8 metres while older liners have much deeper draughts so the correct comparison would probably be height above keel. I suppose you could also work out a rough block coefficient based on the hull dimensions but the older ships were more fine lined which would distort things a bit.
The funny thing is that having seen the old Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth and also some of the new ships of similar nominal tonnage, there is no question at all in my mind as to which look the most majestic and impressive!
Colin
Colin, although I have to agree with you, surely it is now "horses for courses". Perhaps with the recent imposition of "rip-off" air fares the liner could make a come-back. Nice, but I won't hold my breath. Bryan.
hi Bryan you say it would be nice to see the liners come back. I believe they will come back in some form. As this current fuel situation get worse as fuel runs out. A jet plane has to get up to 200+ mph to take off. to do this they need gas guzzling jet engines. On the other hand a ship can be power by oil fuel coal or nuclear or wind. So when the fuel runs out man will have to turn back to the sea , and hence the return of the great ocean liner.
john
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When comparing dimensions it's also worth remembering that modern ships rarely draw more than 8 metres while older liners have much deeper draughts so the correct comparison would probably be height above keel. I suppose you could also work out a rough block coefficient based on the hull dimensions but the older ships were more fine lined which would distort things a bit.
Good point Colin. The QE2 draws 32 feet, so we had to anchor off shore in 3 ports during our Sydney - Southampton cruise, Vung Tau, (Vietnam), Acapulco and Lahaina, (Maui). The photo I took from a tender as we were going ashore off Maui, shows the depth markings at the bow, and while it may not be visible in the small size photo, the water is right on the 32 foot mark.
Peter.
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When comparing dimensions it's also worth remembering that modern ships rarely draw more than 8 metres while older liners have much deeper draughts so the correct comparison would probably be height above keel. I suppose you could also work out a rough block coefficient based on the hull dimensions but the older ships were more fine lined which would distort things a bit.
Good point Colin. The QE2 draws 32 feet, so we had to anchor off shore in 3 ports during our Sydney - Southampton cruise, Vung Tau, (Vietnam), Acapulco and Lahaina, (Maui). The photo I took from a tender as we were going ashore off Maui, shows the depth markings at the bow, and while it may not be visible in the small size photo, the water is right on the 32 foot mark.
Peter.
Looking at your pic and at the white line....what was the aft draught? Another 5' or so (maybe more). Say mean draught of about 36'...which is about right for her. Cheers. BY.
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Bryan, I think the draught is the same, bow to stern, (the ship's data sheet shows the draught as 32'), and I seem to recall noticing the same depth at the stern, however I am open to correction. One of the attached photos shows the white line sweeping upwards at the bow, as does the hull colour, emphasising the sheer of the deck. Other threads have discussed the sheer, or lack of it in the newer ships, but it is quite noticeable when looking along passageways on QE2.
Peter.
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Don't get it.
Want to be excited by what an amazing techincal creation these cruise ships are but just can't get excited by them. You grumpy old gits are not alone- you are right it looks just like an unimaginative Spannish Hotel stuck on top of a hull with some streamlining stuck on its sides.
Imagine living on one of those Pacific Islands- you rely on the trade of these ships but how your heart must sink when you see one waddling over the horizon full of overfed demanding people swamping your island.....
How much Diesel does one of those things pump out? What are the emission figures? If the goverment are hitting me with "green tax" on my little car all the time at the petrol pump what do these monsters pay out and to who?
WoW I'm becoming a grumpy old git!!!