Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: djrobbo on April 30, 2008, 07:12:04 pm
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>>:-( Well its official...........if you own a people carrier you officialy polute the air we breathe so much that the pillocks we call a government are going to put the road tax on people carriers up to 400 quid a year >>:-( >>:-(..........bloody idiots >>:-(.so that means that if you replace the seven seat people carrier with the two ordinary cars that would be needed to carry seven people , that would reduce the polution ..........i dont think so !!!!!!........plus now there are two cars instead of just one , so that cures the congestion problem then !!!!!..........What really zigs me off is that these idiots expect us to believe them......ggrrrrrrrrrrrrr >>:-(
gonna go and open a vein now !!!!!!
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Yes BUT isn't it true to say that this gvmnt is going to double the tax also on cars that are over 7 yrs old.
It is about time that this country REVOLTED against the government and say hold on bellow holes!!!!! and say NO NO NO as it will yet again hit the common man in his back pocket.It is the prats that own 4x4rs that should have to pay at least £500 for tax as 99% of them don't need a 4x4 they are for POSERS.Sorry if I upset any 4x4 owners out there but YOU don't need them for ordinary driving and I mean going to the pub etc.4x4 should only be allowed to be owned by bonafide users like Farmers,oh and yes if you have a caravan that needs a 4x4 well change it and get a smaller one.If we got rid of all the caravaner's who need 4x4 unnecessarily to tow a van well think of the poloution saving.And before this turns into a hate the caravaner I own a van and tow with a car.
This government should go
Stavros
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I am not upset by your comments >>:-(
Yes I do have a 4X4?
Yes I do tow a van and trailer's
but did you know that MY 4X4 is SMALLER THAN a Ford Mondeo! has a lower emission than that car is the safest in its class What would be fair would be to have the revenue collected on fuel! but OH NO lets all knock 4X4's inc the "smart car version 4 wheel drive" which by its construction IS A 4X4!
While I will TOTALLY agree that the likes of BMW, Porche, Merc,Ferrari are OTT and would never get to go "off road" I on the other hand do have and will need to drive what I drive!
My car spends severn months out of the year doing nowt! I cant drive it while I am at sea! nuff said I am calm nuff said I am calm nuff said I am calm {-)
Why can the media say GAS GUZZLERS !!! my car isnt one of them {-) {-)
R sorry rant over
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£300 for a 1.4N reg Astra obsurd!
The current govt is raping the working man for every penny he has and then demanding more, no wander the uk is looking towards a recession, a recession brouight on by TAX.
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That would be an Astra,nomical rip off ;D
Sorry just couldn't resist
R
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The actual charges are in the table near the foot of this document:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/2/5/bud08_chaptera.pdf
Best to check before commenting guys.....
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Of course they expect us to believe them, Robbo. Are we not the very pillocks who've voted them into office for the last 11 years? The choice is between Tories in suits and Tories in better suits. You pays your money and you takes your pick, but don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mud.
Please let's not allow this to descend into a tedious and ultimately inconclusive piddling contest about how many wheels on your car are connected to the gearbox or how many seats there are for you to have to take out to get your boat in. Been there; read it; yawned, and used the T shirt to wipe the dipstick.
Personally I tend towards Stavros' point of view but I'm damned if I could defend it except on the grounds of irrational prejudice but heck - prejudice can be FUN!! I reckon that the three funniest words in the English language at the moment are "Range Rover Sport" - who wants a 60 grand shed that'll do 12 mpg?! Are kids that fat these days that they need taking to school in 4WD trucks? As for "safe", just watch a Schoolrun Mum try to park a Land Cruiser Amazon in a slot any less than half a mile long - hilarious!
Mark - the Government should pay you to drive an N reg Astra, but you'd get no more than 40p a mile out of them before they taxed you on the payments! As an ex-taxman I hold that the rich and stupid are fair game; it's when the beggars start robbing the poor to pay the bankers' Christmas Bonuses that I get annoyed.
Ce n'est pas magnifique mais c'est le guerre..........
M. F Le Jacquet, Rue du Merde
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Mr angry here !!! .......seems to have gone off the rails here :D , i didn't mention 4x4 coz i dunno what the pecker necks in whitehall have got in mind for them ......just heard on the radio what they reckon their going to charge people carriers and try to convince us that it because they pollute more utter b.s. and as for elections dont be fooled into thinking you can vote out the pillocks when you want , i work in a school which is shut tommorow for voting.......er !....but there is no voting coz there are only two candidates contesting the seat and that means they give it to the person who already holds the seat......which means if you live in that ward you dont get the chance to vote for your prefered choice , tough s&\t you get who you dont want anyway.........so no change there then......
truly a fair system aint it...........not!!!
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I wonder if there is such a thing as a benign dictatorship ? Much cheaper to keep one person and maybe his close pals in unearned wealth and get rid of the thousands of voracious politicians & cronies feeding off us as we have today. Of course there is a risk the dictator may turn into a Bob Mugabe.........not such a good option then >:(
Mike
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Looked at Russia recently......?
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'Nuff said Colin ::)
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The real problem is still overpopulation as it is people that cause pollution.
Any couple with more than one child is making a statement that they don't care about the problem.
Any couple with three children is making the statement that they care so little that they are happy for the population to increase by 50% despite the disasterous consequences on the planet.
More than 3 - words cannot describe such selfishness.
Cars generate 45 to 55% of the pollution during manufacture, and last on average less than 8 years.
However LANDROVERS tend to go on for 20+ years resulting in a lower lifetime carbon footprint than a eurobox, and use less resources on plastic trim and friparies like aircon and electric windows too.
So we should all be driving "the best 4x4 by far".
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So if you use your Landrover to mow down all those excess children you are doing the planet a favour.....? :o :o :o
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Take it youv'e got a landy then bee ?.....had a couple of range rovers only had one landrover........unless you count the one with the frost crane on the back.........wonderfull machine turning circle the width of wembley football pitch.......just right for london {-)
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last rover I had only had open windows when you smashed them!
had to get out of the car to pay tolls on the M6 toll road.
heating- didnt work
electric windows - ceased to function
electric sunroof - ceased to function.
actually it was the most fuel efficient car i ever had, spent most of its time on the road being pulled by the AA
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If this really was about cutting down transport pollution then much more needs to be done with....ships! The worst source of emissions etc...
As for the tax, don't forget that we have 2 illegal wars to fight and an Olympic games we are told we need by a government led by a man no one actually voted for. Its just crazy, as for the former PM who lept at the chance to attack those 2 middle east countries? He now calls himself "Peace envoy for the middle east" words fail me.
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want to cut pollution GO NUCLEAR and do away with coal and oil powered generating stations,
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I don't disagree Ghost, but how do you get rid of the waste in the longer term? They say that firing it into the Sun in rockets is not the answer at the moment as the things are too unreliable and could simply spread it over a large area if a launch goes belly up!
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Actually I think the solution is on the horizon. If they can successfully crack nuclear fusion and find a way of disposing of the waste by getting it off the planet then there will be unlimited energy available. This can then be used to produce hydrogen for use in fuel cells to power vehicles with zero emissions. Too bad I won't be around to see it.
Colin
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The radioactive waste remains HOT for a while after, not just in "rads", but in deg C, so why not use the heat from the decaying isotope in a Radio Thermal Generator and use the thermal energy given off by the nuclear waste.
A for blasting nukes into space, an incident like Challenger or Arianne 5 #1 would have chernobyl like concequences.
Hydro is also an option but though the use of water is clean, the back fill behind the dam usually means loss of habitats for man and animal kind, as well as trees as not every mountain is suitable for hollowing out and putting a llanberis-esqe power station in it.
Geo Thermal, yes viable if you live close to an active volcano or two, not so for the uk.
Solar yes if you are in the desert like nevada australia africa or middle east, when did you last see the sun in the uk?
Tidal, salt water corrosion isnt really an issue, so thats feasable, however a plan to barrarge morcame bay was blocked by the green movement!
So really in that respect nuclear is the best option, and reactors now are far more efficient than before, so can get more energy out of 1kg of uranium than older types.
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Ghostie - I always had you figured for a Rover driver. Have you any spare Betamax tapes, BTW?
Pointy - It's unquestionably true that the worse sauce of emissions is HP Brown. It's even got a picture of the Houses of Parliament on the label, and there's no denying that's where most of this country's worst emissions come from. My theory is that we should build cars from papier mache or balsa and fuel them with a politician in the boot, fed on HP Brown Sauce and blowing straight down the feed tube to a gas-powered engine. If we contrived to bury the exhaust pipe up the fundament of the said politician then we may even have solved the problem of perpetual motion - have you ever known one to shut up?
Bish - If we got the length of the string right we could tow a Black Hole behind the planet and chuck our radio-active waste into it. Job jobbed!
Bee - Like the majority of the population I've always lived and worked around a city and none of my Euroboxes has ever had more than two driven wheels. Frankly I doubt if I would notice the difference; we all go at the same speed in town. You stick to your 20mpg, hard seats, prehistoric heating/ventillation system and leaky windows and I'll feel nice and comfy and guilty in my 58mpg Corolla with all its fripperies.
Robbo - For goodness' sake stop reading the Daily Mail! There are far more worthy causes to get angry about. Some are even based on fact.
Boris for Mayor!!! (God help us.................. :o)
FLJ
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Can anyone in Hong Hong tell us what your road tax is, I'm told it's £2,000 a year.
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You guys reckon your government is stupid. Our new government, who's election promises were to bring down grocery and petrol prices and the cost of housing, has put the tax up on diesel and put up the cost of registration of heavy vehicles. Now that does not seem too problematic in regards to the groceries and housing but when you consider the vast distance these things have to travel by road to supermarkets and building sites allover Australia, transport costs must and are factored in to the final price and thus everything goes up. Not the best thing to put downward pressure on inflation which is over 4%, its highest in 16 years.
Oh well I did not vote for them.
Regards David
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Yes BUT isn't it true to say that this gvmnt is going to double the tax also on cars that are over 7 yrs old.
Stavros
No
Table A.8b: VED bands and rates for private and light goods vehicles
registered before 1 March 2001 (pre-graduated VED)
Engine size 2008-091 2009-10
1549cc and below £120 £120
Above 1549cc £185 £200
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Ghostie - I always had you figured for a Rover driver. Have you any spare Betamax tapes, BTW?
Pointy - It's unquestionably true that the worse sauce of emissions is HP Brown. It's even got a picture of the Houses of Parliament on the label, and there's no denying that's where most of this country's worst emissions come from. My theory is that we should build cars from papier mache or balsa and fuel them with a politician in the boot, fed on HP Brown Sauce and blowing straight down the feed tube to a gas-powered engine. If we contrived to bury the exhaust pipe up the fundament of the said politician then we may even have solved the problem of perpetual motion - have you ever known one to shut up?
Bish - If we got the length of the string right we could tow a Black Hole behind the planet and chuck our radio-active waste into it. Job jobbed!
Bee - Like the majority of the population I've always lived and worked around a city and none of my Euroboxes has ever had more than two driven wheels. Frankly I doubt if I would notice the difference; we all go at the same speed in town. You stick to your 20mpg, hard seats, prehistoric heating/ventillation system and leaky windows and I'll feel nice and comfy and guilty in my 58mpg Corolla with all its fripperies.
Robbo - For goodness' sake stop reading the Daily Mail! There are far more worthy causes to get angry about. Some are even based on fact.
Boris for Mayor!!! (God help us.................. :o)
FLJ
HURRAH !!!! at last - a sensible contribution to the thread :D
Don B.
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Ok, so young Mr Boyracer buys a stock 1000cc car capable of 50mpg when driven sensibly, he pays minimal road tax because it's new and small engined. But because he has just passed his test and wants to drive it all the time, he will clock up a fair mileage in a year. Couple that with the peer pressure to be like his boyracer mates, he goes out and bolts a load of uneccessary go faster junk onto the engine, turns his cap round the other way and drives the ruddy thing like an idiot. He will consume fuel like it's going out of fashion as well as proudly smoking out the tyres every week or so, along with replacing most of the stock parts like wheels, lights, seats, paint job etc only to write it off in a very short time and possibly writing off another vehicle in the process. This idiot is a carbon footprint nightmare and yet he will be paying less road tax than I???
As I stated once before, I am driving around in my fourteen year old petrol 2 litre Passat estate. Driven carefully, it generally averages around 43mpg (mixed traffic) and exceeds this on a long run. I had got to the stage of thinking I ought to replace it as it's begining to look it's age but am now becoming rather more proud to still own it after all this time and intend to run it till it drops. The main resons for this are the it still works perfectly, it gives good petrol consuption and is exceedingly reliable. It gets used daily but only when neccessary so annual mileage is below average.
As somone stated previously, most of the pollution caused by cars is in the actual production of the vehicle and that is a proven fact. Now as my car is fourteen years old, how does that stack up against the boyracer down the road who replaces his car every few months because he keeps smashing them up. How much extra fuel and carbon is this fellow chucking down his exhaust pipe compared to me? How much extra carbon and so called greenhouse gasses are produced just to fuel his motoring whims and fancies compared to mine?
Remember, this goon will incurr less road tax than I will and yet my vehicle is actually greener!
This stupid bunch of stark staring goons at Westminster need defeating or at best, lined up against the ruddy wall!
If they get voted in at the next election, The Brits deserve everything they get!!
Rope, Rope, someone fetch me my rope!!!
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Too bad I won't be around to see it.
Stick around just eight years and ITER (http://www.iter.org/index.htm) should be generating some power as a demo plant. Follow-on working fusion plants could be coming on line once the ITER programme runs down in the mid/late 2030's.
Handy for burning up fission waste - but the world really needs SSPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite) systems to go properly green.
In my opinion.
Andy
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Hi iv`e got a 2.9cc diesel people carrier that's eight years old looks like I`m going to get the double whammy then? maybe I will have to sell my caravan to pay for the road tax.
While were all moaning about being overtaxed the government(s) all seem to want to charge us environment taxes on when we fly and the amount of energy we use to heat our homes ect, what do they do with all the money they are collecting for the environment- are they planning to buy a great big Hoover and suck up all the pollution in the atmosphere, if it was possible that`s the only way they could use our money to good effect that would help the atmosphere other than that it`s a "nice little earner" for them .
Paul :(
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Fascinating to read all you old grumpies having a go at anything and everything.
I reckon it's about time this subject was moved s to the Humour section.
By the way, FLJ, now I know why you have that handle. It's probably years of taking the flak with the government you're now complaining about.
Just for the record I agree with most of the sentiments expressed...... I even voted today......how many of you bothered??
{-) {-) {-) O0
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YUP !!!!!!guilty............if you dont vote you can't complain , and where's the fun in that :D :D
just for the record i drive a 3 year old fiat doblo 1.9 jtd diesel m p v......its not four wheel drive and it hasn't got seven seats , but it qualifies for cheaper tax because of its lower emission levels..........wonder what they'll make of that ??????
wonder if an m.p.v. will be lumped in with people carriers ???????
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I have read about this government lastest half baked idea. Mmmm one big problem.
Drive round the UK and see how many foreign car are on our road, yes a lot. So go buy a foreign car bring it back to the UK and oops forget to tell the D.V.L.A. drive it a for a year then sell it back on main land Europe. Only the UK d.v.l.a tell foreign country our details the rest reffuse to tell the UK any details.
john
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flagging out, damn good idea!
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I blame the cows! Shove a cork up their deri aire and we all can breath easy ;D
Gary
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hey new zealand has a bovine fart tax!
now all you mayhemmers who are in he UK and Wales where May1st is election day,
VOTE IN THE MAYHEM ELECTION!!!!
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Hi iv`e got a 2.9cc diesel people carrier that's eight years old looks like I`m going to get the double whammy then?
And how many horsepower does a 2.9cc engine produce? If you can get that to run a people carrier that's a miracle! {-)
Andy
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more than my old rover 416!
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Why are 4x4s targeted all the time i have seen many large engined BMWs Daimlers RRs jags etc but it's always 4x4s but as i see it i holiday every year in this country i don't fly abroard i camp i tow my sail boat behind my 4x4 which is needed to recover my boat up wet slips i buy recycled cars (second hand) there fore my so called carbon footprint is vastly reduced for not being vain and having a new car i use significantly less rubber as my tyres are larger and wear less my engine revs alot less enabling it to wear parts less it will run on cooking oil.
but if we all change to so called eco cars tomorrow i suppose the government will just accept the huge loss of revenue and pat themselves on the back and say what a grand job they've done getting them nasty cars off the road will they BO***CKS!!!
They will be breathing the same quality of air pilling the revenue onto electricity or whatevers next!
So yes i could drive a more economical car but who's going to buy it for me i can't afford another car, and i'd have to sell my sail boat and as my new 1000cc car would be knackered driving long distances i may as well start flying to my holidays.
But hey the years i spent in forestry planting over 18000 trees a year means i obviously care nothing for the enviroment because of the car i drive!!
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Im with you ALL the way bbdave
I tried to pull one of my tandem axle trailer's behing my brothers car but the ride hight could not be corrected and this made the towing very poor in that we gave up! and had to wait until my 4X4 was available.
R,
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bbdave
You could always put the sail from your sailboat onto your car then zero carbon emissions. {-) {-) {-) If you take the engine out of a car and run it on sail power is this a way to avoid paying the government tax, have we found a loop hole?
Regards David
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"But hey the years i spent in forestry planting over 18000 trees a year means i obviously care nothing for the enviroment because of the car i drive!!"
I'm enjoying this thread - to a point. And up 'til now I've kept out of it because because. But when I read that little snippet.....
Man, total repsect!
Dig this...
A couple years ago I hired a Renault Clio for a few days. Yeah, I know, I know - it's classed as a woman's car, blah, blah. But in all fairness, I was dead impressed with the thing. Excellent fuel consumption... nippy when it had to be... easy to park... etc.
You getting the picture so far?
I'm obviously biased towards smaller cars, right?
...Or am I just jealous because I don't have a 4x4 of my own?
Mate, in all honesty, I stand corrected. You've opened my eyes. Go right ahead and enjoy your 4x4. And if ever you find yourself around these parts, take a drive down to the local school and Puh-LEEEEEASE teach all them single Moms how to reverse the thing.
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I run a environment damaging, antique 4x4 petrol guzzler (in some peoples eyes!).
My Landrover (recycled when HMG had finished with it), is 28 years old,but no longer has 'historical vehicle status' thanks to GB*own and his buddies 2 jags etc, ;)
I wonder how many other vehicles will last that long and not need a high carbon footprint generating replacement within 30 years? :o
My motor does less that 5,000 miles a year, normally to and from displays, for which I have to pay full road fund (notice the name of that tax...ROAD fund, how much goes into the roads I wonder?), Insurance (justified), MOT (again justified.....only notice during last 10 years was a dodgy wiper blade (passengers side) and a vast amount of VAT etc on fuel (how much does it really cost? Did you notice Messrs Shell etc profits last week!), >:(
But who does the HMG call out to help in cases of flooding/snow/roads blocked through gales etc? :police:
The good old Landrover owner who is prepared to risk his cherished motor for other folks benefit, that's who! O0
LEAVE 4x4's alone...................look at 'Boy/Girl racers', 'Prestige Motor' owners (do they really need a RR, Bentley top range BMW, Audi etc for their trip up the Motorway (we don't have Motorways in Norfolk either... but we still pay the same ROAD Fund as those who do have the benefits of good transport infrastructure!). >>:-(
Ho Hum...............rant over sorry guys but I do feel better for that!
Long live 'Euroboxes and Japcr*p'...after all , they even help our balance of payments don't they?
Electric cars are the future............................................(how do you recharge them, how do you make their batteries without mining cadmium etc?)
Rex
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"Electric cars are the future............................................"
Possibly. But did you see 'Planet Mechanics' recently? The French are dabbling with air compression -- or more exact, cars that run on compressed air.
A major downside so far is that it takes around 3 hours to refill the tanks, and you only get around 70km (?) between refills.
Early days yet, but........
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I don't have a problem with 4x4 vehicles when they're used appropriately. Towing a sailboat or goods trailer, working off-road in the country or using one for mountain rescue IS appropriate. What is NOT appropriate or even acceptable, however, is a 4.8 litre V8 12mpg monster with a tiny woman sat behind the wheel, transporting one spoiled, fat little grub of an infant to school and back. You could do that in a Smart car, and yet there are thousands of these Chelsea Tractors ploughing the furrow between home and school in every town on every working day of the week.
This combination of vehicle and driver is NOT safe nor is it remotely appropriate to the task. They just seem to say "Hey, look at me, you peasant - I can afford to ignore the Road Traffic Acts; put aside any last vestige of common sense; wave two fingers at the environment and waste money on this ridiculous car because I'm SO much more important than you are".
Envy on my part? No, I don't think so; I could afford a 4x4 but I don't have the need for one so I don't run one. Inverted snobbery? No - I'm an ex-public school boy and we live in a posh area of town, so that won't work either. I guess I just dislike people who are ostentatious, selfish and ignorant............ and unfortunately a lot of them seem to drive Range Rover Sports, Land Cruiser Amazons, LWB Shoguns and Porsche Cayennes.
FLJ
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I don't have a problem with 4x4 vehicles when they're used appropriately. Towing a sailboat or goods trailer, working off-road in the country or using one for mountain rescue IS appropriate. What is NOT appropriate or even acceptable, however, is a 4.8 litre V8 12mpg monster with a tiny woman sat behind the wheel, transporting one spoiled, fat little grub of an infant to school and back. You could do that in a Smart car, and yet there are thousands of these Chelsea Tractors ploughing the furrow between home and school in every town on every working day of the week.
This combination of vehicle and driver is NOT safe nor is it remotely appropriate to the task. They just seem to say "Hey, look at me, you peasant - I can afford to ignore the Road Traffic Acts; put aside any last vestige of common sense; wave two fingers at the environment and waste money on this ridiculous car because I'm SO much more important than you are".
Envy on my part? No, I don't think so; I could afford a 4x4 but I don't have the need for one so I don't run one. Inverted snobbery? No - I'm an ex-public school boy and we live in a posh area of town, so that won't work either. I guess I just dislike people who are ostentatious, selfish and ignorant............ and unfortunately a lot of them seem to drive Range Rover Sports, Land Cruiser Amazons, LWB Shoguns and Porsche Cayennes.
FLJ
May I a so called 4X4 driver shake your hand sir,
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May I a so called 4X4 driver shake your hand sir,
I'd be pleased to do so, sir!
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here a nother point. WE ALL PAY environmental tax. it call fuel tax if you own a v12 8l 4x4 it drinks like a fish so you pay lot of tax. if you own a 600cc smart car you use naf all fuel and pay little tax. So why on why do the idiots need to rock the boat.
This is what i think. They know there on the way out come election so they don't care. + they can call any other party that says they will remove this in just tax anty environmental.
I used to own a ford cosworth. Some of this 2L now produce over 750BHP make carbon by the ton and pay only £200 O0
I can see a rise in old cars.
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You hit the nail squarely on the head, Mr. J.
But how did it ever get to that state, anyhow? No matter where you look, they're everywhere. I'm refering, of course, to that "tiny woman sat behind the wheel, transporting one spoiled, fat little grub of an infant" brigade. (Hehee!... neat choice of words!).
It's true what you say, though. You only have to see them, the same time, every day, clogging-up just about every major road within a mile of every school. The daft part is, the local infant school is but a spit away, but none of them would be seen dead walking. I mean, why walk their darling brats 100 yards to school when it's much more fun to burn a zillion gallons of liquid gold AND have the pleasure of staring down their hooters at lesser mortals, to boot.
I can't help wondering where they get the money to buy their cars in the first place. None of them work, none of them are married, I haven't boned ANY of 'em, yet they're breeding faster than rabbits and driving cars of the kind that Mr. average Joe could never afford.
I wanna 4x4. I wanna load of £££. I wanna................
(Sob!)
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Sorry PMK you are the wrong sex to jump up and down in that demanding way {-)
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I can't help wondering where they get the money to buy their cars in the first place.
It's all done on the credit which they found easy to obtain because the fatheads who run the banks would lend it to them. Now the plug has come out of the sump we can only watch while their houses - whose ridiculous price inflation was the bedrock of this craziness - are repossessed and their fragile little make-believe worlds come crashing down around them. I don't do sympathy very well.
Greed in the banking system and "Sub prime" is the cause of all of this, but don't ever believe it's just restricted to the Untidy States. Just watching the Local Election results coming in and feeling angry and betrayed. Brown and Cameron are two sides of the same coin. No wonder only 35% of the electorate turned up to vote.
FLJ (Off to the pub; it's Friday! Hooray!!)
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Just leaving cars aside for a moment there is all this banging on about building new homes which are apparently needed (due to rich buggers buying second homes and killing villages). it seems forgotten that for 1 ton of concrete=1 ton of carbon emmisions!! i recently saw a program about a new build i forget what it was but not a huge building but apparently the amount of concrete used and therefore emmisions was equal to all the flights in and out of the U.K. for 1 year!! so how do cars at less than 1% of all emmisions for the year constitute global warming?. which may i add has been happening since the end of the last ice age. 4 million years ago the North sea and Channel used to be above sea level, where do they think all that water came from?. Probably all the oxon pulling carts farting! caused the start of it i blame the cavemen!!
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Just been out to tax the ole Passat.... over a hundred squids for 6months!!! :'( Thieving B**ta*ds!! >>:-(
If only I could make it run on all that hot air coming out of Westminster, better still, just half the money Prescott spent filling his gut last year..... at our expense! In case you didn't catch it, he shoved through a £4000-00 expenses chit for pigging out, we payed for it and he chundered it down the plug hole as he claimed he had an eating disorder. C'mon you legal minded chaps out there, has he fraudulently claimed for this nosh as he KNEW he was ill , kept it a secret and knowingly did not want to not benefit from the nutrition it contained? I think he should pay it back!
I wonder what his annual fuel expense chits to keep the Jags runs into, those things use bout the same amount of fuel as a good 4X4 and I bet he doesn't chop them in for a Nissan Micra!
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Me being Me, grumpy moaning old F--t. I have grave doubts about anyone who calls thereself an `expert`.
Seeing how one group of `experts` predict `global warming` and the latest lot to stick their heads above the parapet predict `global` cooling. Just who the hell do we believe.
Still the politicians cab now tax us both both.
Bah humbug Colin H.
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Just leaving cars aside for a moment there is all this banging on about building new homes which are apparently needed (due to rich buggers buying second homes and killing villages). it seems forgotten that for 1 ton of concrete=1 ton of carbon emmisions!! i recently saw a program about a new build i forget what it was but not a huge building but apparently the amount of concrete used and therefore emmisions was equal to all the flights in and out of the U.K. for 1 year!! so how do cars at less than 1% of all emmisions for the year constitute global warming?. which may i add has been happening since the end of the last ice age. 4 million years ago the North sea and Channel used to be above sea level, where do they think all that water came from?. Probably all the oxon pulling carts farting! caused the start of it i blame the cavemen!!
Sorry, but all the water on this planet was created a long,long time ago. The quantity does not increase or decrease...although it does get moved around a bit. Forget about the ice-caps melting and so on. The pure volume of water on this planet will stay the same as it ever was (albeit in different forms).
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Sorry, but all the water on this planet was created a long,long time ago. The quantity does not increase or decrease...although it does get moved around a bit. Forget about the ice-caps melting and so on. The pure volume of water on this planet will stay the same as it ever was (albeit in different forms).
That was my point Bryan the ice caps will melt faster as there is less cooling effect as they decrease in size. Like when they found the hole in the ozone it took a few years but they then realised that because they'd only just invented the machine for looking at the ozone the hole may have always been there!! and we're supposed to trust these morons!
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Next they will tell us the world isnt flat! and we wont fall off if we sail our boats farther than we can see ::)
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speaking of Housing, the best solution to the housing crisis.
imagine this in the brocure,
2 bedroom with excellent views
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speaking of Housing, the best solution to the housing crisis.
imagine this in the brocure,
2 bedroom with excellent views
AND super TV reception O0 {-)
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its a shame some places have them and the lift smells pof pee! however that is the exception NOT the rule, and yes I'd put my money where my mouth is and live in one! more floors the better!
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Hi All
Here is something I have been pondering. In regards to carbon emissions and footprints and trading and all that poo. In the refining of oil to make petrol is their much carbon emissions. If so this will be the next stop for governments to hit the small bloke. Putting a Carbon tax on oil refining, the cost of which will be passed down to you and I the consummers. What a con.
On the subject of 4x4's we have our share of the nervous mother brigade taking little Johnny to school in a tank. Hubby thinks he must protect his Mrs and the fruit of his loin, while he is off making deals at the office, so he buys a tank so that the cargo is safe. What gets me is the small 4x4's, you know the ones Not much bigger than a small hatch but the shape of a Land Cruiser. If they went on to any other surface but the road they would just disappear. Total useless as an off road vehicle but still have the 4x4 badge/status symbol.
Not that we have it as bad as you guys in regards to the cost of petrol. Here in Australia the current average per litre is $1.40 which would roughly be about 80pence per liter give or take. But we still grumble at the price. As we should, we have about 90% of our own oil supply and yet we have to play along with the Middle East cartells who set the price for our own oil. If anybody tried to do that with any other commodity like wheat it would be against international law. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Regards David
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I have just read a report that said the earth is cooling down and will be for the next ten years. So all this tax for Global Warming is just rubbish. I would say that I think 4x4's should be used for their intended purpose not as some sort of status symbol.
Brian
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I never understood why we NEEDED air con fitted in to cars in Britain, it seems a bit over the top when a simple sun roof would suffice. Air conditioning saps about 3bhp from an engine and that represents a fair amount of fuel and subsequent carbon emission over the life span of the vehicle. This never gets a mention in the emissions stakes yet I regard it as somewhat superfluous in the same way as a 4x4 bratmobile at schooltime. Why don't they just stick the road tax on the fuel so you simply pay for what you burn ie, big car... big fuel bill, uneconomic car ... big fuel bill, boyracer.....well, his bills are already high but why not stick it to him a bit more as he is an emissions nightmare!
I suppose my logic is all a bit over simplified but no-one has ever truly explained why road tax isn't simply put on fuel so you pay for what you drive based on it's fuel economy.
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I never understood why we NEEDED air con fitted in to cars in Britain, it seems a bit over the top when a simple sun roof would suffice. Air conditioning saps about 3bhp from an engine and that represents a fair amount of fuel and subsequent carbon emission over the life span of the vehicle. This never gets a mention in the emissions stakes yet I regard it as somewhat superfluous in the same way as a 4x4 bratmobile at schooltime. Why don't they just stick the road tax on the fuel so you simply pay for what you burn ie, big car... big fuel bill, uneconomic car ... big fuel bill, boyracer.....well, his bills are already high but why not stick it to him a bit more as he is an emissions nightmare!
I suppose my logic is all a bit over simplified but no-one has ever truly explained why road tax isn't simply put on fuel so you pay for what you drive based on it's fuel economy.
I can't speak for anyone else but I only use aircon either when it's stinking hot or I need to clear a misty screen. It's certainly not on all the time. As regards 3 bhp, you can waste more than that by running with your tyres under-inflated.
Ref tax on fuel, I guess it's the former taxman in me which screams "Don't be so damn stupid! THAT might mean some people will pay LESS!!!!"
The first thing you must know about tax law and tax policy is that neither logic nor fairness are involved. Witness the debacle over the aboliition of the 10% tax band.... by a so-called Socialist government.
I have yet to be convinced that by stuffing his grubby paws even deeper into my pockets our esteemed Chancellor will save even one polar bear. What was that wonderful Mark Knopfler line? Ah yes!
"Let's hear it for the dolphins; let's hear it for the trees; ain't runnin' outta nothin' in my deep freeze...."
Plus ca change.......etc
FLJ
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I think a lot of the blame can be laid a the foot of the car industry and consumer. The former will cater to the latter, and wouldn't change it's policies unless encouraged to do so.
Taxation is a blunt instrument, but if you ask people nicely to change their habits, they tend to respond by completely ignoring you. It was only on the insistance of fitting catalytic convertors 17 years ago, that necessitated the improvement of fueling systems in our vehicles, and it is only with pressure that the car industry is now seriously looking into building small, lightweight cars that can run on little fuel. Volkswagen has recently relaunched it's 1L (litre) project, a 21st century bubble car that can do over 200mpg. BMW is seriously looking into making a 21st century Isetta.
IMO, there shouldn't be a new car on the forecourts that can do less than 50mpg.
On the flip side, I think the government should give a decent tax break to new cars that are very efficient e.g. remove the VAT on these vehicles. This would encourage consumers to purchase these types of vehicles, and manufacturers to build them.
Andy
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My 32 year old Landy has air conditioning and it costs nowt extra to use the aircon!
I can just open the two flaps under the windscreen for low speed aircon.................
or roll up the sides for medium aircon.
The entire roof comes off when it is HOT and not likely to rain (twice in the last Globally Warmed three years!)
But sorry......in matt Nato green (brush/yardbroom painted) it is hardly a status symbol...AND I have no kids!.......must go to Tesco's and buy one like everyone else...........and then HMG will give me all sorts of allowances too!!!!
Yippee!
Anyone notice that they are not planning to do anything about this 10p tax rate for low paid married couples with NO rugrats?
Breeders ok with anklebiters....pensioners have a little recognition at last but what about folks like us..............just above the minimum wage, well below the average wage, responsible enoough to realise that WE can't support any kids, (not without payouts) and struggling to keep our own house, that we HAD to buy as ex-servicemen no longer qualify for accelerated 'Council Housing' and we could have been homeless for at least 10 years waiting for one!
Come the revolution!
Rex
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I think a lot of the blame can be laid a the foot of the car industry and consumer. The former will cater to the latter, and wouldn't change it's policies unless encouraged to do so.
Taxation is a blunt instrument, but if you ask people nicely to change their habits, they tend to respond by completely ignoring you. It was only on the insistence of fitting catalytic convertors 17 years ago, that necessitated the improvement of fueling systems in our vehicles, and it is only with pressure that the car industry is now seriously looking into building small, lightweight cars that can run on little fuel. Volkswagen has recently relaunched it's 1L (litre) project, a 21st century bubble car that can do over 200mpg. BMW is seriously looking into making a 21st century Isetta.
IMO, there shouldn't be a new car on the forecourts that can do less than 50mpg.
On the flip side, I think the government should give a decent tax break to new cars that are very efficient e.g. remove the VAT on these vehicles. This would encourage consumers to purchase these types of vehicles, and manufacturers to build them.
it all very well saying that. But what got a lot of people back up is the back dating it back to 2001. You buy a nice car that you can AFORD to run then the government remove your stander ed of living with out giving you a choice thats not on. What would be a beater way is to say all new car brought on the 58 plate on ward will be subject to this tax. This would still have the same effect on the motor industry, as more people would concider buyind a new small car.Thus they have a choice.
As for saying all new car should do + 50mpg . Have you thought about this. I mean farmers and people living in remote parts IE the Scottish highlands may need a power full 4x4/ Theres no way that one of these can do 50mpg. My company car a 2LTD ford mondao 05 plate does about 48mpg thats because of the work stuff in the back, so what happens there. What then national grid going to use in stead of there long wheel based land rovers to get to the pylons a Nissan micro ? can you see prescot in a micro ner ant got the same wring to it as 2 jags.
Andy
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I agree with you that the backdating is unfair, and I don't agree with this policy. However I think higher tax on newer cars which are guzzlers is fair.
I also believe a 50mpg 4x4 is acheiveable with modern engine technology.The curb weight of a series one landrover is about the same as a BMW 1-series. The latest one series diesel can achieve over 60mpg.
Andy
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well perhaps we should all move over to HYDROGEN
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Subculture,
They made us over here put catalytic converters on cars quite a few years ago,
then brought out a machine to test and show how much that this would reduce
emissions, these machines have been scrapped, main reason being that 90 % of
the older cars running on the OLD SUPER petrol were on average 30% cleaner
than the unleaded cars, great system we have to suffer using now isn't it.........
Roy
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subculture
Why do we need these cars you suggest the world is now cooling so a little warming up might just help.
Colin H.
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What gets me is the small 4x4's, you know the ones Not much bigger than a small hatch but the shape of a Land Cruiser. If they went on to any other surface but the road they would just disappear. Total useless as an off road vehicle but still have the 4x4 badge/status symbol.
Regards David
You say that the small 4X4 is no use off road? My son has a Suzuki 4X4 and it is only a Vitara (not the stupid *fat Boy*) and the off road capabilities of that car would astound you! I pulled a 110 landy out of the mud (his clutch went) with it no problems other than I had to reserve the use of four big lads for a touch of weight, and I got £50.00 of the landy owner who bet me I could not do it!
as for mpg his is very good
R, Ps sorry this post is replying to a very early one but I have been busy
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subculture
Why do we need these cars you suggest the world is now cooling so a little warming up might just help.
Colin H.
Dwindling oil reserves. Roads chock-a-block.
Makes sense to me to use the minimal amount of resources to achieve your aim i.e. getting about.
Cars have got increasignly heavier over the years. case in point- the original mini weighed about 1400 pounds give a or take a few. The new one weighs well over a ton, almost double the weight, and it isn't double the size. The Smart Fortwo, essentially a modern day micro-car, weighs about 1600 pounds, and it's only a two seater.
Modern cars need a trip to weight watchers, corresponding smaller capacity engines, then you'll see real gains.
Andy
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subculture
Why do we need these cars you suggest the world is now cooling so a little warming up might just help.
Colin H.
Dwindling oil reserves. Roads chock-a-block.
Makes sense to me to use the minimal amount of resources to achieve your aim i.e. getting about.
Cars have got increasignly heavier over the years. case in point- the original mini weighed about 1400 pounds give a or take a few. The new one weighs well over a ton, almost double the weight, and it isn't double the size. The Smart Fortwo, essentially a modern day micro-car, weighs about 1600 pounds, and it's only a two seater.
Modern cars need a trip to weight watchers, corresponding smaller capacity engines, then you'll see real gains.
Andy
the reason Morten car are getting heavier is to do with safety .You will find that most new car with a 4 or 5 star N cap rating are heavy. The ford foces is triple skinned this adds weight and safety . So Europa want safer cars this means more weight the makes high MPG hard.
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Whilst we're on the subject of safety, can anyone tell me why there is a move to ever higher bonnet lines, eg the Auris and corolla to name but two. Surely this alone creates visibility problems. I've seen no end of people peering through the wheel instead of over. Could this explain why so many people drive right on the centre line, having no idea where the front corners are. I saw a massive 4 by 4 Audi yesterday which was almost a mini Kenwood tractor unit. Do we really have to follow the American styling on our ever more cramped roads?
When I was a kid many moons ago, I was told that you needed to see where your corners were at all times.....one eye on the left margin and one on the centre line. Perhaps any car designers on here could enlighten me a little.
My next door neighbour runs a driving school using Corsa's, which are about as small as you can get. I wonder why it is that she can't get the car nearer than 18 ins off the kerb. I wonder also how many passes she obtains.
Signed....confused..
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The reason for the high bonnet line is to provide a space between the underside of the bonnet and the hard bits at the top of the engine. This acts as a "crumple zone" designed to protect pedestrians who may be thrown onto the bonnet if hit. Apparently many injuries are caused by pedestrians landing on a bonnet which has no "give" in it because of the engine components underneath.
Bull bars, as fitted to many 4X4s are of course intended to prevent the pedestrian being thrown onto the bonnet in the first place and damaging the paintwork.
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My next door neighbour runs a driving school using Corsa's, which are about as small as you can get. I wonder why it is that she can't get the car nearer than 18 ins off the kerb. I wonder also how many passes she obtains.
Old saying. Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
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"Electric cars are the future............................................"
Possibly. But did you see 'Planet Mechanics' recently? The French are dabbling with air compression -- or more exact, cars that run on compressed air.
A major downside so far is that it takes around 3 hours to refill the tanks, and you only get around 70km (?) between refills.
Early days yet, but........
And what compresses the air? Inefficient air compressors driven electrically!
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Well, I went to do my bit last Thursday! Not because I wanted to vote for any particular party, but because I didn't want an inappropriate party taking over my council.
I am disgusted that there is still no option on the polling sheet for "None of the above"!
It seems we are not allowed to protest peacefully nowadays, let alone in public. And they wonder why there is such apathy towards the voting system.
Give us the options we want, not what the government wants and maybe things can change. Or is that what they fear?
Mr disgruntled.
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Whilst we're on the subject of safety, can anyone tell me why there is a move to ever higher bonnet lines, eg the Auris and corolla to name but two.
I have a new Yaris, the idea is inside the car you sit a little higher,the bonnet is shorter so you see all the road instead of a long bonnet, the safty thing is when hit at the front the engine goes down wards at an angle and under the car and not into the cabin.
Our old Yaris was hit head on at 50 mph , the airbag went off, we both got out with out a scratch on us, the cabin was completly intack, so it does work. O0 O0
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The simple truth here is that no-one is going to force us off the roads. The "Govverment" knows this. The fuel companies know this. And we as drivers and car buyers also know this. The car driver is in a no-win situation and we will have to live with it. Lip service to new roads? Forget it. They will just fill up again. Clean, reliable public transport...forget it. Now that all the shops you need to go to are either miles away or are off a "no-stop" bus route, what choice has one have? Use the car. I think that the only time politicians ever come to terms with the results of their imbecile decisions is when they are chucked out of office and have to re-join the real world. Too late then, though.
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Spyderman_uk
You do have an option to use a protest vote, just vote for more than 1 or all, it is counted as a spoiled paper.
Bob
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There is a win win situation.
Buy a pre 1973 car, convert it to run on lpg. Zero car tax, very low rate of fuel tax.
Andy
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Ah! Public transport!
Cost of bus ride recently from Nice to Cannes (15 miles; approx 2 hours) is 1 Euro, or about 80p. Cost of bus ride from end of our road to centre of Nottingham (2 miles; approx 10 minutes) is £1.40. If the French can offer such a reasonable service then why can't we get the same over here? The fuel costs are about the same, surprisingly enough. In terms of pence per mile, a seat on a BA Concorde flight to New York was cheaper than a stand-up journey on Nottingham City Transport.
As for the rail fares in the UK..........HOW MUCH from London to Manchester, Sir Richard??!! How can a business that shafts so many people still be called Virgin?
FLJ (Unreconstructed and unrepentant car-owner)
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is it me or the government missed the point. A 2L 2008 car will produce less pollution than a 2001 2L car. So why have they made a cut off date were car be for 2001? are exempt from the sliding carbon tax.
It seams to me the government want us to drive around in older cars as these have lower tax.
All so do they real think the rich care? I mean if you can drive around in a range rover sport and afford to run that what an extra £220 over a year it just over £4 a week extra. Thats nothing to some one on +£50/60k a year apart from a small inconvenience.
john
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There is a win win situation.
Buy a pre 1973 car, convert it to run on lpg. Zero car tax, very low rate of fuel tax.
Andy
go 1 stage further, make it a hybrid as well and ya dont pay the London congestion charge!
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Bit more tricky that one. Lot of caveats in dodging the congestion charge.
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/congestioncharging/6733.aspx#alternative
Speaking as a Londoner, I think anyone who drives into London on a weekday by choice needs their head examining.
Andy
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Someone mentioned public transport, well you can't use it whilst wearing decent clothes! My wife talked me into using the park and ride recently and I watched with interest the the number of cretins who use the empty seats opposite as a footrest and they were'nt just the 'younger generation' either. This was a nice new clean bus and the seats were very nicely finished and reasonably comfortable. I was sitting there seething with anger but had I said anything and a fracas had ensued I would have found myself down the nick for assault! Where do these pigs come from? Would I use public transport?....NO, not whilst I have a hole in my AR.E I wouldn't!! >:(
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I remember a accident which involved a little old lady driving one of those huge Pajero 4x4's, she had pulled out in front of oncoming traffic. She could not see over the wheel and the copper asked why she was driving a vehicle that was totally unsuitable for her, she must have been a bit dotty because her reply was "the salesman recommended it because it would keep her nice and safe". Thing is you see more and more pensioners in these things, they are obviously getting too much pension money.
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I remember a accident which involved a little old lady driving one of those huge Pajero 4x4's, she had pulled out in front of oncoming traffic. She could not see over the wheel and the copper asked why she was driving a vehicle that was totally unsuitable for her, she must have been a bit dotty because her reply was "the salesman recommended it because it would keep her nice and safe". Thing is you see more and more pensioners in these things, they are obviously getting too much pension money.
Be very careful here George, we pensioners are watching your advancing years with some sort of anticipation. A bit like an "oldie" riding a motor-bike? Can't tell his age until he takes the helmet off.