Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: gaznjant on May 28, 2008, 02:49:09 PM

Title: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 28, 2008, 02:49:09 PM
hello . im gaz. we live in Plymouth UK. Me and my boys are building our first boat. 4ft racing hull powered by a Zenoah G260 PUM . The engine is all installed and pretty well welded down. pitch ect all seem good. race tuned exhaust all bracketed and electric box all watertight. on the engine are 2 water entrances(one for exhaust) 1 for the head. i have got the water pick up in the rudder for the head and i would like to know if i need to add a 2nd water pick up for the exhaust? 2nd question is ,,, Are there any other enthusiasts in Plymouth as we cant seem to find other builders. I have been advised to get 40mhz radio gear is this correct ? .. best i stop asking questions now before you all get bored..... great forum and website . finding it all very cool indeed . hope to hear from you all soon gaz
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bradley on May 28, 2008, 02:58:14 PM
Hi Gaz,
I am not into racing but would suggest that you have a look at the Offshore Model Racing Association (OMRA).  I believe that they have a website and they do a write-up every month in Model Boats magazine.   O0
Happy modelling/racing.   :) ;)
Derek.   :police:
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 28, 2008, 03:00:58 PM
hello . im gaz. we live in Plymouth UK. Me and my boys are building our first boat. 4ft racing hull powered by a Zenoah G260 PUM . The engine is all installed and pretty well welded down. pitch ect all seem good. race tuned exhaust all bracketed and electric box all watertight. on the engine are 2 water entrances(one for exhaust) 1 for the head. i have got the water pick up in the rudder for the head and i would like to know if i need to add a 2nd water pick up for the exhaust? 2nd question is ,,, Are there any other enthusiasts in Plymouth as we cant seem to find other builders. I have been advised to get 40mhz radio gear is this correct ? .. best i stop asking questions now before you all get bored..... great forum and website . finding it all very cool indeed . hope to hear from you all soon gaz

I shall answer these in sequence, as I'm in that kind of mood O0

1.) The engine only needs one water pickup, the water goes a, to the head, b, from the other side of the head to the manifold/exhaust cooling, and c, from the other side of the manifold/exhaust out of the boat. Looking at my G260 I don't think standard silicone tubing will do, but any model shop should sell wider stuff, perhaps one of the makara boys coul help you with that.

2.) The Plymouth Model Boat Club meets on the Stone Quay, Millbrook Lake on a regular basis.

3.) 40 Mhz is what nearly everyone uses, or if you have deep pockets, you could get a 2.4Ghz set.

Hope this helps O0

Andy
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 28, 2008, 03:04:01 PM
Oh forgot to add:

Contact Ron Fry, club Chairman, if you’d like more details (phone 01752 703 685).

Andy
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 28, 2008, 03:06:48 PM
many thanks guys for your help . really good to use all your valued knowledge of this hobby that we just venturing into
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 28, 2008, 04:59:58 PM
One thing I would like to add, make sure you put Bellows on your control rods on the outside of the radio box (glue them in with epoxy) and MAKE SURE you have FULLY waterproofed all that you can in the box. The contents of that box as you know are very expensive, so need keeping dry. You could also put the silica gel packets you get with electrical equipment in there to soak up any moisture. When they get wet, simply shove them in the oven after you have used it, while it is still warm to dry them out again.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 28, 2008, 05:03:12 PM
many thanks andy. i have got the bellows and put expanding foam in the bow of the boat. its this water pick up i cant get my head around. surely the water from the head would be warm when it hits the exhaust manifold? if i made a seperate water intake from say near the prop would that improve performance ? i have been using 8mm brass piping for the outlet to take it away from the boat. looks nice to
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 28, 2008, 09:27:12 PM
If anything it'll slow the boat down putting more pickups on.

I got a new water cooled manifold for my Merco .61 last sunday, so I shall repeat to you what I was told when I asked that very same question:

If the water coming out of the cylinder head is absolutely boiling, even sticking it through the red hot manifold will cool the manifold down.

It wont be that hot but you do get the idea...

Putting warm water through will still cool the manifold, because the water will never be hotter than the manifold will be.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 28, 2008, 09:47:57 PM
good point . thanks again andy
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: GaryM on May 28, 2008, 10:51:54 PM
From one "Gaz" to another - have you any photo's - I'm a noob but very interested. O0

regards
Gary
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 29, 2008, 09:17:38 AM
yes i will take some and put them on the forum when i get home from work gary. we have enjoyed the build so far. now its getting technical
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 12:27:35 PM
yes i will take some and put them on the forum when i get home from work gary. we have enjoyed the build so far. now its getting technical

Looking forward to seeing the photos O0

What hull is it?

If you have any questions don't be in the least bit embarresed to ask, everyone on here is very helpful :)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 29, 2008, 01:26:22 PM
hope these pictures help with any help you guys can give us
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 03:36:35 PM
Looks nice  O0 Pics a bit small... You going to paint it?

You will also need a handle front and back (OMRA rules), and if it's over 50'' long it'll need a lanyard for towing it (also an OMRA rule)

You a member of OMRA? you'll need the insurance if you want to sail it

Looking good  :)

Andy
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 29, 2008, 04:00:16 PM
not a mamber of OMRA just yet and carrying handles will be the next bit of the build. we are spraying it black with fire fron the sides and over the back. (12 yr old twin boys colours) as for insurance i havent even looked into that yet as its nowhere near ready for the water. (mrs bank manger...ie THE WIFE) says no... to radio gear until she is over the shock of me bieng caught on what we spent already.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 04:10:11 PM
There is 4 prices of a boat:

1.) The price you actually paid.
2.) The price you tell her you paid.
3.) The price she thinks you paid.
4.) The price you pay when she finds out what you actually paid.

OMRA is £22 for the first year for adults, £6 for children, then £12 for adults and £6 for children thereafter.
This will go to the end of this year, so pay when you can. As for radio sets, I can advise you on the best cheap ones there are, and I also know where you can get them cheaper than the rrp's

Andy
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 29, 2008, 04:28:30 PM
advice on anything is good advice andy . as earlier you say best is 40mhz. the servos are fitted but need to put in battery pack/reciever and what about a dead switch if something goes wrong (so i can hit the button on the control box) ?
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
What do you mean by a dead switch?

Most Tx's have a engine shutdown feature, activated by either a button (new Futaba Tx's) or by flicking the trainer switch twice (old Futaba Tx's and most other brands). You will need a failsafe, which is £9.99, that goes between Rx and throttle servo and shuts the engine down in the event of Transmitter or crystal failure
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 07:04:47 PM
as earlier you say best is 40mhz.
The best on paper is 2.4Ghz, unfortunately these sets are very expensive, my Spektrum DX-6i cost £110 just for Tx and Rx, no battery packs or servos or anything else included. I also have a DX-3 that came with Rx, nicads, two servos and a switch for £130.

To give you an idea of 40Mhz gear cost, Howes Models in Oxford will sell you a Futaba Skysport 4 for £100 with gear, £40 without, or a Futaba 4EX computer radio for £115 with gear, £45 without, or a Futaba 2ER for £38 with gear, £8.99 without (this one only needs duracells too).

I dont have shares in Futaba or anything, as it may seem, but Futaba gear is by far the best (watch the rows start...). Ask anyone at my glider club at Ivinghoe Beacon and they will tell you this is true. So I suspect will people at Stevenage boat club.

I would advise 2.4 gig stuff, as I love it (despite what everyone else says) , but it is quite expensive.

Andy
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 29, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
thats what i meant the failsafe. dont want it sailing off to far to sea without me . ive now just soldered and bent the water out pipe. going to fit that next and then fit the electric box down to see about the wire movements to rudder and throttle.  :-\

now hows my diplomatic....yes dear of course we can go shopping just for you dear..... to see if i get my radio gear soon ...
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 07:11:48 PM
now hows my diplomatic....yes dear of course we can go shopping just for you dear..... to see if i get my radio gear soon ...

Good luck with that!  O0

What type of pushrod/ snake are you using, it would probably be very difficult to bent piano wire up to the angle needed from radio box to carb on a Zen, as i moves into a very strange angle. Most people use a Sullivan Flexi-snake for this as it can bend to any angle.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 29, 2008, 07:20:04 PM
well a tip i learned from a website was ...wait for it ... bike spokes. strong and bend nice and easy ant they fit so snug in the plastic push fixers
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 29, 2008, 07:24:42 PM
bike spokes. strong and bend nice and easy
That sounds a bit iff.. never seen that done before, perhaps for a reason...

Sullivan Snakes are £1.69 from all good model shops, these are best for the throttle, and piano wire or bike spokes for the rudder
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: GaryM on May 29, 2008, 11:36:59 PM
Looks like a serious, wicked bit of kit guys! :)
Bigger photo's please?  Any video's?

regards
Gary :)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 30, 2008, 09:04:11 AM
hi i hope you can see this picture . i havent resizes it to small . thankyou andy about the snakes. will use them for the power but using spokes as the rudders for there strength

gary, yes we are hoping for lots of fun on the water. looks pretty fast and from videos we have watched of these engines in use . it looks pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 30, 2008, 03:45:18 PM
Looking good O0

Using the spokes for the rudder will be fine, as they are quite strong.

Can't see whether you are using stringers to put all the gear on, but some of the snake will need to be fixed to them to keep them tight, as they are very flexible (you can tie them in knots and they still move), just fix them in until a couple of inches away from the carb, and a couple away from the radio box to stop them flexing. Once secured, they are almost bulletproof connections.

Attached is a very accurate child like drawing of what to do with the connectors (clevises), You need to get about half a centemeter of silicone fuel tubing (shaded), and put it on some needle nose pliers, slip it over the clevis, then take the pliers away. this will hold the clevis firmly shut, and will not let it open while the boat os moving (at the stevenage race this happened, so the person driving had no throttle control and had to crash the boat). To reopen the clevis, simply slip it towards the back of the clevis.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/Scan0001.jpg)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 30, 2008, 04:34:13 PM
now that is a quality idea. as i was advised to just use spokes and put a little s bend in them at the rudder part as the strain theough the rudder would open them clevises. like that idea andy thanks once again !

the 4 rules of buying parts has got to be the funniest thing i have heard for a long time to . brilliant
wonder if wife will fall for "radio gear is only a tenner " ?? worth a punt
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 30, 2008, 05:02:20 PM
wonder if wife will fall for "radio gear is only a tenner " ?? worth a punt

For all the white lies, that isn't actually far off, seeing as you can get a perfectly adequate tranny for £8.99 (plus crystals plus batteries...)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 30, 2008, 06:39:58 PM
ok . im still thinking about this water pick up for the exhaust as a seperate in and out and just having the rudder pick up as the engine water cooler. i dont think the loss in speed would be that great but wonder if anyone has ever tried this idea ? should i be the guinea pig for it ? i have done the water out for engine in brass pipe (all bent to streamline it away from the boat and can do the same for the exhaust out. just a thought guys  ::) i understand the water from the rudder would cool both but thinking a bit more on the cooling side
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 30, 2008, 07:05:21 PM
Nah it should be fine without, have a look at this picture:

The engine feed goes straight to the engine, then to manifold, then out. That engine is 16cc smaller than yours but runs a lot hotter as it is on 5% nitromethane fuel with quite a hot plug in it
If you want, send a PM to Bill D203, he races his Makara in the OMRA races, with a single rudder and pickup, I think his twin rudder enforcer (up for sale, just a little advert ;) ) still only has one pickup.


(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN2982.jpg)


Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 30, 2008, 07:21:16 PM
take a look at this . hope its big enough

note . bottom left is where i am looking at putting the intake for exhaust if i cut it
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on May 30, 2008, 07:32:37 PM
That boat is actually glowing... I have no idea what to do, you seem to be fixed on dual pickups  O0

Ask Bill D203, he''l know what to do.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 30, 2008, 07:47:06 PM
no no nooooo i aint fixed on it. its just a thought as a cooler engine on a car or my actual speed boat is a good thing. asking why it would be different for a model , i appreciate all your advice andy its all good
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on May 30, 2008, 09:42:03 PM
now you may see the engine block and why
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on June 01, 2008, 11:38:11 PM
ok . sundays boat building . stuck with the 1 water pick up. did the fuel lines (in and return) did the breather pipe. bent all the rods for the rudder and seem to get good turn with no restrictions. mounted the electrics.....(yes futaba 40 mhz box and servos in my possesion) boy did that take some creeping.... mounted the radio box and battery pack ect.

sat down and stressed some.... bending them wires really had my patience in a flap. and i remembered the rubber sleeves !!!

drank some beer.... de stressed.

question ...... do i use cable ties for security on the fuel and water lines or is there a better way ???

then soldered the new ariel and mounted that......

cooked a bbq and said morning to the family...around 6pm .... long day at the shed

found an electric blackspur paint sprayer ....any good for doing the hull ???
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on June 02, 2008, 09:30:50 PM
Hello Gaz
I have just fitted a twin pipe water cooling set up on my Makara, It over heated on a race last sunday. Not good NeWS.
Both the outlets need to be on the port side. If you are going to race your boat OMRA run right hand turn course's When you are driving down the pit lane you then get a chance to check the water is flowing as it passes you.
Have a look at OMRA web site. We do have some race's down your part of the world.
Cheers for now
Bill
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on June 02, 2008, 10:15:09 PM
thanks bill. i have stuck with the one water pick up . and sent it round the head then the exhaust manifold then out the boat. dont think we are ready for racing ...(this is our first motor boat) but hoping to get plenty of experience and build more and get into the racing side when we know what we are doing properly.

im looking at joining the omra looks well worth it.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 06, 2008, 01:04:15 PM
Well. how infuriating can a boatbuild be .... had to get a new fuel tank. the one i had didnt work as the pick up wasnt at the bottom. had to rebuild the block that it sits on and rebolt it. got all the engine back and refitted everything, had the engine purring in the garden and really sounds nice, now as you guys know ...put it near water and it stalls. (even bought the boat a deep paddling pool) !! when i start it and put it in and hold it to do the mixtures under load..it stops and stops again and guess what stops again !!! what am i doing wrong ?? hope someone out there knows about these zenoah G260 PUM and a rough guess where the 2 pins have to be for running under load.. ::)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on July 06, 2008, 03:39:16 PM
According to the internet it should be roughly 1 1/2 turns out on the high end needle and 1 1/4 on the low end.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 06, 2008, 03:47:41 PM
how are you andy . good to see you. thatnks for the needle settings . going to put it back in the pool when it stops raining. one other thing i have noticed. when she is floating around, the back end seems very very low in the water. i know this will sit up under full throttle but do i need to balance it
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 06, 2008, 03:56:40 PM
Hi looks like a nice boat you have mate,while i agree only one water piccup is needed i actually prefer two.You can either make a flush one and if you do a search you will find a thread on this type,or you can do what i did on my hydro which is to epoxy a piece of brass tubing to the trailing edge of the rudder ,it only hangs 1/8" bellow it so causes no extra drag as such and it works really well.Good luck with it and above all have fun.
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 06, 2008, 04:03:03 PM
just added some extra pics to show what i mean about sitting in the water and to show the 2 needles that i cant get right
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: w3bby on July 07, 2008, 08:42:01 AM
Needles, 1 1/2 turns out on both is a good start and tune from there. Screw them in lightly until they close then out again. You cannot tune the motor without running the boat on the water. Run the boat and check the colour of the spark plug. Rich is good, not maximum power but the engine life expectancy is better.

Remove the idle screw and throw it away, set the idle with the radio. This allows you to kill the engine with the radio(full brake).

You should have checked the balance of the boat as you built it and moved stuff around so you do not need to add any weight. It should balance at around 30% of the length from the transom, some do it with a full tank, some half full and some empty. The tank should sit as near to your balance point as possible, in this way it doesn't change move as you use fuel.

To get the boat to run you need a high idle and then preferably throw the boat in with slight forward motion. I'm afraid the paddling pool is not going to help you....

You are going to need a silencer with that pipe, it will be far too loud. you need to get to around 80dB.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 13, 2008, 08:00:26 PM
well..... after an eyeopener at the weymouth race i do believe we are a long long way off !!! was a fantastic weekend and we have learned alot. have bought lots of bits n bobs to get our boat to something like racing. water pic up i put in is a total waste of time because of the drag ect. also realise we need to weight the front down as ours is a feather compared to some boats there. gotta say a big thanks to the 3 guys from manchester who we camped next to . they showed us so much with the boats i cant thank you enough !!!!!!!!! ah well back to the boat and rebuild what i screwed !!!!
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 13, 2008, 09:16:31 PM
If you need to add weight to a hull to make it stay on the water then its not balanced right and thats the truth.A balanced boat will be faster and will still stay on the water dont add weght believe me ive done it and its not the way to do it ,you can also use trim tabs to help when its rough or even as i do use some negative in the prop angle to keep her running a tad wet when its windy.No one should need to add weight to a boat to keep her upright.Balance it ,trim it and all will be fine.
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 13, 2008, 10:17:09 PM
Hi Glad you had a nice time! Took me 4 1/2 hour to drive home to Stevenage tonight. Whats more i didn't even get ONE lap in.
Due to a collusion with John Smith's boat and then emptying the water out off my boat all over my Transmitter.
NOT ONE OF MY BEST DAYS OUT I THINK.
Thats racing????
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 14, 2008, 06:02:06 PM
ahh i saw you on the end of the pontoon shaking the wet stuff outta your radio gear.. i had the davy jones polo shirt on and sat on the pier wall all day !! was brilliant. just emailed to get into omra so we can play. i have trashed my boat to rebuild it so i can get the balance right and see if i can get a good box for the electrics and change the water pick ups so the flush with the hull ect
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 14, 2008, 08:14:52 PM
Yes It was me. Have now got the boat washed out & oiled up ready for next Sunday.
Glad to here you stuck with it all day. Apart from mine and a few other's it was a good days racing.
Must of the boats went home in one bit.
Try having a look at the "Mad Makara" section. There is Loads of stuff on there which may/ may not help. Welcome to OMRA as well. We are a good bunch of like mined boaters.
Martin the radio box held up real well to the sea yesterday.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 15, 2008, 06:56:06 PM
Good to hear mate ill keep it in mind when i start building hulls  ;D,might have a few like my orange one but with a new designed top if anyones interested.Just need to finnish the plug and make the moulds first  O0.In the future i also hope to have a brand new vee of my own design made from glass,working on the plug now.A friend of mine in the states builds and sells this one he redesigned the woody plans i had and came up with this which is what got me thinking .
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 15, 2008, 08:09:34 PM
bill. i got your collision on video m8 !!! between turn 2 and 3 ... and martin that hull looks the monkeys nuts !!! like the shape.. have you had that in the water yet ???
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 15, 2008, 10:26:20 PM
Hello.
I would love to see just what I did wrong. It all happend so fast I'm not 100% sure what I did. Can you e mail it to me? Or would it be possible to send me a copy?
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 15, 2008, 10:29:59 PM
i will email it you bill.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 15, 2008, 10:36:23 PM
I can't wait to see were it all went wrong. Been making  12volt TX &RX charger unit tonight so I charge them up over night on a weekend run. O0
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 15, 2008, 11:46:20 PM
...  martin that hull looks the monkeys nuts !!! like the shape.. have you had that in the water yet ???
Hi mate its not mine thats one a mate made from some free woody plans, he made it into a plug and made a glass version hes sold a handfull and reckons they run great.Having built a wooden version myself i can confirm the design is good,he has made a number of changes but the ride surface it still the same.Very fast hulls with a zen 50+ ,this is his first attempt at a boat from glass although he has experience with it .As you can see its absoluteley flawless.Hes making me one just as soon as funds allow but my money is tied up on my new venture  ;) ,shipping is the stumbling block but ill let you know when i find out how much.
Mart
ps ill post a vid of it when he gets one made  ;)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: OMK on July 16, 2008, 12:43:43 AM
Mart,

Nice photos, man.
Check the backdrop antenna/mast in photo 'hemi vee 2'.

You got some nice views from your back garden -- wherever you are.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 16, 2008, 01:01:09 AM
Lol not my back garden im in not so sunny blackpool  :(.id swap that weather and the mast for the crappy weather we are having here any day  ;).
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 18, 2008, 06:08:35 PM
hd the spray cans out ! still got a way to go but looking like a speedy boat now
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: tmbc on July 18, 2008, 07:46:37 PM
loookin good !
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: GaryM on July 19, 2008, 12:39:01 AM
She looks lovely, fast and mean! O0

regards
Gary :)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 19, 2008, 09:19:49 AM
not sure on the lid yet. havent sprayed that yet as we dont really want to do it black. thinking that flame red eith fire may look better and it would be more visible. thanks for the comments guys . we are going to start putting it back together later today when i get home from work
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 20, 2008, 08:18:02 PM
hit a bit of a snag guys... throttle lever is working fine on the spring but how do i then get that to the servo to push n pull it ? if you look on the engine pic i put in earlier the bar that comes down from the accelerator sticks so ive had to take it off. is there something i can get that works better so it wont stick ?
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 20, 2008, 09:46:51 PM
Hi
I have allways used Plastic type boden cable. I use a linkage arm fitted to the crab on the output side of the engine.
I wish my old laptop was able to take the pics from my Camara so II could show you.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 20, 2008, 09:50:17 PM
thanks bill really at a loss at the moment to know what to do with it
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 20, 2008, 10:36:51 PM
You either need to rig a bellcrank system up on the other side of the carb as Bill says or use a bowden cable or steel cable,remove those rods and attach a  cable but the cable needs to be fixed to a bracket so it will push and pull,or you can use a combination of a bellcrank and a cable  ;).I know one guy who uses braid the type they use for fishing and he swears by it it only needs to pull as the spring on the carb should close the throttle on its own when pressure is taken off ,i personally would use a bowden cable or steel cable its quick and simple and cheap.A bike brake cable is all it is ,dave sells them.you can use the linkages you allready have on the carb to attach it same as with the rods,dubro make those and dave also has them to save on soldering  ;D.
Mart
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THROTTLE-CABLE-LINKAGE-rc-model-boat-carb_W0QQitemZ360070637586QQihZ023QQcategoryZ2564QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THROTTLE-CABLE-LINKAGE-rc-model-boat-carb_W0QQitemZ360070637586QQihZ023QQcategoryZ2564QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262)

rl1

http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/hdwraccs.htm (http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/hdwraccs.htm)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 20, 2008, 11:25:13 PM
cheers mart. if you have a pic anywhere of the set up . that would help loads... or know of a link where they show pics of how to set it up. i been trawling the net tonight to no avail.........
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 21, 2008, 05:59:29 PM
Heres a cpl with the belcrank you can use pushrods or cables to pull end push them.you can also use nylon snakes off planes to do the same job as Bill said,i dont use a bellcrank just a cable direct to the carb arm or even to the butterfly as on yours.The third pic is mine i made the arm from a plug pin ,i drilled it to fit on the carb the set screw was allready on the pin  ;) just attach a pushrod connector through the pin after drilling a small hole,i needed to file the pin a tad thinner but its brass so its easy to do.Then slide the cable into the connector, then i fixed the cable sheath to the mounts and thats it just run it to your servo and it works great.
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 21, 2008, 07:56:03 PM
mart. many thanks for your time and effort with the pics !!! its very much appretiated. it looks alot clearer now i can see the set up instead of trying to imagine it and work out where to drill and set the rods. i have been talking nicely to the engine and i have posted a pic of what i have come up with. it seems to work and its pretty much what you have in the last pic. as you can see i have used the push rods i found in my shed that i bought months ago
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 21, 2008, 08:50:52 PM
Hi Gaz
Here's another tip for you. Move the gray HT coil up to the top. Use one off the bolt holes on the Second red coil to fix it down. if you leave it where it is it get covered in fuel, water, and just about all the things that is not good for it.
I have posted your video clip today on Youtube. If you look up "D203 Weymouth"
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 21, 2008, 09:11:13 PM
something like this bill ??? do i need to do anything to the top screw hole ?? ie earth it or anything ?
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 21, 2008, 09:48:45 PM
Yes thats what I ment, Well done. Yes run a wire with a crimp on each end one the the coil end and the other to the other bolt.
Just trying to track down a camp site for the Modelmayhem weekend in Wales
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 21, 2008, 10:03:23 PM
understanding the bolt end but not yhe coil ??? you mean run a wire from that top bolt and other end to the engine mounting ?
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 21, 2008, 10:09:55 PM
OK Top of the gery coil to earth sould do the trick
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 21, 2008, 10:11:04 PM
got that ...thanks bill .. i will clamp it to the engine mounts when i put it back in tmrw ! nice one  ( or can i put the wire to one of the screw holes i took that grey coil from and secure it there >?
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 21, 2008, 10:18:14 PM
Many an Zen has come to a hault because coil has sat it the water, fuel, etc
This way it is all keep't up as high as it can. Have a look at the Gray coil, they sometime have a small vent hole in them. 1mm hole. If it has then plug it up with a bit of sealant. Agian this will save the coil when it gose under water if you roll it.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 21, 2008, 10:30:48 PM
Just make a bracket for the coil and mount it to the motor so you dont need a ground wire  O0,my mounts have a relocation bracket built in but it wouldnt be hard to make one.Where you have it now is fine but rather than make a ground wire id make a bracket so you can mount it across the two bolts in that pic rather than just the one.
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 22, 2008, 06:50:50 PM
ok . i think i have everything in order. all mounted and i have a spark !! (good sign) everything fits and from the pics i hope it shows its well balanced (with no extra weight). can anyone see what else i need apart from the electrics put in which i will be doing tmrw... ::) :-\
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 22, 2008, 07:01:45 PM
Looks very nice mate,get some floatation in there mate right way up front and down sides,i use pool noodles the long tubular floats £1 from poundshop  O0,dont forget to grease your flex shaft,mix 16/1 ratio synthetic oil for the motor and have fun  ;).Are your water lines silicone? they look plastic or pvc if so they will melt in 5 mins also one thing i see is your antenna wire reroute it as its very close to the pipe which could be a problem if it touches when been bounced arround at 40 mph.Dont forget to run the motor in if its new,i run a full tank through at mid throttle with short bursts now and again,after 5 mins running bring her in let her cool down fully then restart and run for a few more mins then do same again.Once thats done just run her but dont go full throttle till second or even 3rd tank,this is my method for running in others may differ but i like my motors to last  ;).
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 22, 2008, 07:03:57 PM
ive filled the front of the boat with expanding foam . its all right behind the fuel tank. when ive got the electrics in im gonna then fix the floaty dont do a titanic plz stuff O0
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 22, 2008, 07:11:04 PM
ive filled the front of the boat with expanding foam . its all right behind the fuel tank. when ive got the electrics in im gonna then fix the floaty dont do a titanic plz stuff O0
That could have been a problem as that stuff has a habit of keeping expanding and can blow boats apart  :o,you will need floatation down sides or the boat will bob like a top if it flips which makes it hard to recover if like me you use a tennis ball on the end of your fishing line ;).
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 22, 2008, 07:18:45 PM
i havent set the wires yet so they just there. the water pipes from b n q  :-\ ??? this not the right stuff to get ?? i do have some black pipe i picked up from our local motoerbike shop ....that be better ? yes its a shiny new engine and the expanding foam i made sure didnt quite reach the sides. lids all got foam epoxied inside and that floats a treat. will show the finished deal before i even dream of taking it near the sea just to make sure its all in order
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 22, 2008, 10:23:54 PM
You need to ditch that tubing and buy some high temp silicone tubing it needs to be big bore tubing its bigger than the silicone fuel line internally,Dave has it in stock,The black tube you mention if its radiator hose may work but im not 100% ,either way best to use silicone as pvc from b&q will melt and your motor will cook and then you can kiss it goodbye most likeley  :o.
Mart
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WATERCOOLING-silicone-tube-rc-model-boat-2-mtrs-tubing_W0QQitemZ180267805240QQihZ008QQcategoryZ2564QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WATERCOOLING-silicone-tube-rc-model-boat-2-mtrs-tubing_W0QQitemZ180267805240QQihZ008QQcategoryZ2564QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: gaznjant on July 22, 2008, 10:36:39 PM
jeez i just ordered trim tabs n everythin from dave ...gonna mail him now
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 23, 2008, 01:08:35 AM
No need for trim tabs just turn fins  ;).
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 23, 2008, 08:39:58 AM
Hi Gaz
If you take your self off to Pluming center You can buy silecon tubing which is uesed for  U tubes gas testing. It is about £5.50 for 2 meters. I use it all the time for all my water cooling pipes.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: martno1fan on July 23, 2008, 09:40:27 AM
Bill hows it hold up mate had any issues with it at all?,some silicone is not as good as the stuff Dave sells apparently,i have some used for aquariums it is silicone and its held up ok but it does get soft with heat so i do use small zip ties on the ends over the nipples,might get some from Dave as he reckons it doesnt get affected at all.Better safe than sorry i guess  ;),mind you i have over 180 mtrs of this stuff  {-).
Mart
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on July 23, 2008, 09:55:09 AM
This is what happens if you use expanding foam...

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN2983.jpg)
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 23, 2008, 10:15:53 AM
Hi Andy
Where was you on Sunday?
Martin. I have not had one prob with the silcon tube. Found the company  try  www.regin.co.uk Type in REGU68 for the product code number
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: ids987 on July 23, 2008, 01:01:28 PM
Hello.
I would love to see just what I did wrong. It all happend so fast I'm not 100% sure what I did. Can you e mail it to me? Or would it be possible to send me a copy?
Alright Mate,

I know videos can be deceptive, but it doesn't look (to me at least) like you did anything much wrong. I doubt you even saw his boat before it appeared in front of you.
Looks like the other fella overtook you - then went wide round and past the buoy. You kept in the "racing lane" - fairly tight to the buoy, so you almost caught him up again going round the buoy. I'd guess he tried to come back in - thinking he was miles in front of you, but ended up coming right across/into your line. Did the other boat spin as well before you hit it ? - hard to tell on the video.
Again - only my impressions from seeing the video. I guess I shouldn't comment having not seen it first hand......
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: Bill D203 on July 23, 2008, 02:33:40 PM
Hi Ian
The boat belonged to MR J Smith.  He didn't leave me any room to go anyware.  That stoped my boat, when i got it back in the pits it had taken a fair bit of water onboard. This is what killed it. I put the TX down behind me, tiped the boat over my head to empty it as fast as i could and guess what all over the TX. That did put a stop to my racing.  It is all washed and dryed out now. The new pipe & engine is working fine.  I was out Sunday with it. It has inproved the top end speed.
Title: Re: Our First Build
Post by: andyn on July 23, 2008, 03:29:02 PM
I was at Farnborough, said I would be going but didn't know which day. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6679.40 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6679.40)

Today I got the ACTion Micro Diesel sound unit I was talking about, on the back of the parcel there was a sticker for the international boat show, November 7th- 9th. Fancy a trip up there?

You up tomorrow? shall bring the hellcat with newly-epoxied tube and sound system  O0