Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: colin-stevens on June 07, 2008, 09:50:50 pm

Title: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 07, 2008, 09:50:50 pm
Well, went down to Westbourne models today, get a few bits for my Pibber, and more than likely collect the Thunder tiger sub. Argued with myself while sitting in one of the many revenue collection areas, about getting something that, to me, despite its obvious quality, still looked like a toy. walked in and asked if they had the Engel Lafayette. Unfortuantly they did. Now quite a bit poorer.
Any pointers? specifacly fiiting the baynet, crucial. the ends of the hull on mine are not particualy flat, reckon that this could end up with the fore/aft not being in line(bowed).
suggestions.
colin
Title: Re: have now joined the club
Post by: Mankster on June 07, 2008, 10:19:52 pm
Well you picked a good one, straight forward build and a sold performer. I built one a couple of years ago, and my hull was a perfect cut either but it lines up fine when you install the bayonet, the small gap is easily filled, and you have plenty of time to line everything up. Bond the fore end first and the the stern second, that way you can prop it on its nose whilst you line up the stern end and lit it dry. You should be ready for the Pool run with plenty of time to spare.
Title: Re: have now joined the club
Post by: colin-stevens on June 08, 2008, 09:38:03 am
being an early riser i have now got the teck rack assembled, lots of sanding to get the disks through the baynets, slow and sure. check and receck. thanks for the heads up on fixing forward baynet first, makes sense. was thinking of fixing aft first. but lots of dry fits before i get there. locked the resin glue away for now.
there was a nice catalogue in the rather large box. some models i havnt noticed before, IE U19. looks interesting.

Jeez, finish at least one model before i start casting my eye round.

colin
Title: Re: have now joined the club
Post by: das boot on June 08, 2008, 10:50:41 am
You'll not go far wrong with an Engel kit, my Patrick Henry was the best performing boat I've ever had.

Enjoy...


Cheers,

Rich
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Mankster on June 08, 2008, 05:04:03 pm
I found a sanding drum attachement on the Dremel was the way to go with the rack, about a minute for each circular pvc plate was all  it took me ( easier to do it this way after you have build the rack, as you may find the rack sags a little over its length after it is assembled and supported old by the rear bullkhead) I trust you've tracked down my Woodrow Wilson build on SP.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 08, 2008, 05:31:35 pm
if youre wheeler dealer, then yes, reading it at the moment. if not, then no(?)
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Mankster on June 08, 2008, 06:58:11 pm
Thant will be a yes then  :)
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on June 09, 2008, 02:23:26 pm
So I can put your name on the list for the Brockwell Lido pool runs then?

Andy
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 09, 2008, 04:06:00 pm
New there would be down side to posting. Yes of course, thats assuming i can get the thing to work. YES i know its a peice of cake. Just remind me when.
Cheers
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on June 10, 2008, 04:44:27 pm
Ha, ha! Twist your arm.

Have you got a leveller for this boat?
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 10, 2008, 04:49:40 pm
not yet, guess you are going to say get one. will do
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on June 10, 2008, 08:05:30 pm
Ramesh's Laff went really well with Norberts LTR5. Engel sell it too.

You can get by with just a pitch controller like the LR2, but I think the depth control makes it that bit easier to maintain periscope depth from what I've observed of this boat running.

Ramesh will confirm or deny this I'm sure.

Andy
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 10, 2008, 08:34:47 pm
got to recover from bying the Lafette first. just priced up batteries. easy £100 squids worth, but will shop aroud a bit. may also need to get another receiver, not sure i have a spare.
found that the alluminimum rod that acts as a spacer between the dive tank and the rack has not been finished, no thread bored in the end!! waiting to hear back from Westbourne.
i lied about locking up the resin, the two baynets are now fixed, gawd help. tried it when i got home, just filled her from the rear hatch, no water gushed out at least.
have made one mistake. got the first two bulheads round the wrong way, the holes for the 2 tubes are the wrong way round. soon fixed with rough reamer.
tried the rear rack and main bulhead in the rear hull. cool. havnt tightened down the motor as yet, but the shaft seems to rise up, closer to the top of the hull. with the bearing in i am only pulling .6A. so not to concerned. so much to get right, non of it refversable.
having fun
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Mankster on June 11, 2008, 05:19:58 pm
I've only ever run my Laf with the depth controller part swithed off (so just with pitch controller) haven't found a stretch of water clear enough or deep enough to eye ball my sub when it any more than a few inches below the surface. Without knowing what horrors like at the bottom of my regular lake, I wont take her any deeper than I can see. But a regular pitch controller works perfect. I get most of my NiMH packs from http://www.vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/High_Power_Model_Control_Batteries.html. A 6v pack is £13.25, you'll need 4 for sub.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 11, 2008, 06:21:24 pm
you lot are are wonderfull.
just glued in the main bulkhead. fingers crossed, resin every whwere.
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 15, 2008, 06:03:48 pm
crossing my fingers worked. dropped it in the bath today, not one bubble. phew.
wired up the ballast tank today. when filling, ok. reaches the end of the "spindle", then it automatically returns to the "80%" on the pilot shaft, sometimes. mostly it seems to overrun and then stop. if i just "empty" it runs back, but stops and starts. any ideas. the system is totaly open to atsmosphere. the pressure switch works, blew down it while holding it in fuuly submerged.
also it only stays fully submerged if i hold the stick in the fill. using a proportional stick as oposed to a 3 position switch.
does any of that make sense
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Mankster on June 15, 2008, 11:26:31 pm
Cant quite visualise  :( Try a 3 position switch, incase moving the slider slowly across the range is confusing the BTS.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 18, 2008, 08:58:38 pm
oh wise ones, silly question, are  Ni-HM ok as opposed to ni-cads ?
darnt even sign my name
so
regards
anom
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on June 18, 2008, 09:08:16 pm
Preferable- much higher capacity and better bang for buck.

Don't think you'll be able to purchase Ni-cads for much longer, they're being phased out as Ni-MH and Li-po battery technology takes over. Also, cadmium is highly toxic, another reason for them being phased out.

Andy
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on June 28, 2008, 12:02:13 pm
made a fair amount of progress. just waiting for my batteries, then a real test. gulp.
made a few changes to the internal layout. first off the plastic yoke for the rudders didnt fit, or rather it did but needed filleting, didnt think that would leave enough meat on the yoke to be safe. made a new one out of laminated glass resin sheet. that sorted it apart from the fact i can only pinch the securing screw. hope it holds.
moved the BTS to the upper compartment behind the pressure switch. the receiver goes in the compartment under the BTS. reckon i will move the speed controller to the compartment the other side to where the leveller goes. hate have things where i cant get at them easilly. using a Mtronics 15A controller, no need for receiver batteries. changed the rudder and planes push rod for a snake, moves much more easily.
going to mask of all the missile hatches and the other markings, some of them are pretty vague, and then spray with a high filll primer. hopefully that will make them more pronounced. well see.
having fun
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 12, 2008, 08:56:21 am
what is the best "grease" to use for the main seal? ages ago i read something about not using vaseline as it is'nt good for the type of "O" ring used, and something else was reckomended. damned if i can find it now.
Layffte is coming along a treat, just messing with weight at the moment.
Unfortuntly i rubbed away the detail on the rear of the hull when getting the two halves to match. Also the detail is somewhat vague and inconsitent around the silos and the "wiggley" bits. (towed array rails?) so these willl want sorting. thinking about filling them with resin and re-scribing. will not be fun, keep putting it off.
cheers
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on July 12, 2008, 10:51:27 am
Silicone grease. I use the servisol brand, which you can get from Maplins.

You could also try the plumbers merchants. Plumbers use silicone grease for rubber seals.

Andy
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 12, 2008, 06:41:05 pm
ta, was in Maplins today and forgot to get some, me and my brain cell.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on July 12, 2008, 08:56:56 pm
Don't think I can help any further there! :D
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 12, 2008, 09:26:37 pm
and theres me thinking you had the answer to everything O0
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 20, 2008, 07:58:31 pm
camera now back so here are some piccies under way. still got problems with BTS, so took a bit of weight out so she wouldnt totally submerge. great fun. though reckon to hell with red and black, shes going to be dayglo orange, take some of the staring at an empty pond of the equation.
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 25, 2008, 09:38:34 pm
BTS sorted. now the speed controller has given up!! me and electronics. running a 15A mtroniks. will get the next size up.
still great fun.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Mankster on July 26, 2008, 11:51:33 pm
Looks nicely trimed there Colin, finished well in time for the Pool runs  O0
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 27, 2008, 09:01:39 pm
actualy the water is desceptive. she is a bit too nose up. rather that than nose down, though.
I did have a brand new Mtroniks 15A, but that kept cutting out then packed up all together. it was kind of hot so figure it was build up of heat. hoping a 40A sorts it. it was fun though. looking forward to pool run.
incidently, made a start on putting the hull right on my Seehund, see how it goes.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: sheerline on July 28, 2008, 09:41:28 am
Hi Colin,good to hear your enjoying yourself with that sub.
On the point of your M/Troniks s/c, check that the small B.E.C chip has not fallen off the side of the heatsink and hanging loose. They were only stuck on and have tendancy to drop off, they are then no longer able to loose their heat and cut out when the temp reaches about 100deg C. You will probably find that it cuts in again when it cools off. If this is the case, don't stick it back on... it will fall off again, so get a small piece of aluminium around inch and a half square, drill a hole in it and bolt the chip on to it, this will aid heat dissapation and solve the problem.

It will save you some dosh and I think your 15A controller is probably ok sizewise for that boat. Personally, I use the M/Troniks 40A Viper SSR as it has an uprated BEC (1 1/2A) and it is contained within the unit and this eliminates the bec problem.   
Out of interest, how many functions are running off your RX and have you any idea what the total current drain is at full throttle ?
Regards.... Chris
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Mankster on July 28, 2008, 11:12:00 am
I am a convert to switching BEC's over the linear ones in most esc's. Rather more efficient with battery power and no more overheating ESC. I just snip the red wire off the esc to rx cable to disable the onbaord bec. A good quality 3A bec is about £5-10.
Most linear BEC rated at say 1.5amps are only good for that with a 6v supply, hook up 12v and try to draw 1.5amps and you start to oerload it. My Emgel Laff runs of a 15 amp ESC just fine by the way.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 28, 2008, 06:31:36 pm
Chris, mtoniks havnt done an external BEC for a while now, i cant remember seeing one.
the motor is pulling .5A out of water.!
just tried my new useless 15A, with the esc enabled, the rest of the functuions work, but not the motor.(no LEDS)

my old 15A Mtronic worked for a bit, then kept cutting out. cant use it though as there is a noticable time lag between stop and forward, and i can not program it out. the old  one also cuts out after 20 mins or so, but not failed totaly, wheras the new one has stoped workin the motor.
i hate speed controllers, they always fail on me, eventualy.

i am running 4 x 6v packs. 2 in series to give me 2 packs of 12v. one feeds the motor, the other the dive unit. the radio is fed from the dive battery of a receiver fly lead at 6v. the Mtronics has the red wire disconected.
fed up
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on July 28, 2008, 07:37:48 pm
Should be under warranty if it's new. I've heard of these going bad, so worth seeing if they'll offer a replacement.

The best ESC's I ever encountered for marine use were made by Mike Stothers. He rated them for 20-25A, but they would take a lot more than that.
Sold quite a few of those to fellow club members who'd had problems with other makes, never got a single return. Unfortunately I haven't heard from Mike in a long time, and they no longer seem to be available.

Andy
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 28, 2008, 09:01:42 pm
yes there is a limited warranty on mtroniks. but not if you replace the connections like i did. will not be doing that on my very expensive replacement. i have got througgh a few of these, think i had a bad run.
will sort it
colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on July 29, 2008, 10:26:20 am
That's a nuisance. Although I believe it's possible for the manufacturer to diagnose if the failure was due to the controller being connected up with reverse polarity.

I've heard very good things about Robbe's Rocraft ESC's, although they are rather expensive.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Sub driver on July 29, 2008, 11:05:31 am
colin.

Are you using the VIPER mtroniks SC ??
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: sheerline on July 29, 2008, 02:33:58 pm
Colin, we always used the M/Troniks 'Sub10' but as mentioned before, moved over to the Viper SSR.  We have always run 12volt and simply utilised the BEC to drive the RX and apart from the odd bec dropping off (bad idea) they have been great. Given the number of these I've sent out over the years, I have only ever had a handful back so I reckon you have been darned unlucky.
It is worth phoning M/Troniks and explaining your situation and the fact they are installed in a submarine, they are always helpful and accomodating.
As a point of interest, I just took delivery of a 'Sub 10' Viper and it has the BEC attached externally so they do still make them. It states clearly that this unit has 'immediate reaction high power reverse' so I think your slow reaction type was not intended for sub use.
Worth a phone call, give em a try?
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: colin-stevens on July 29, 2008, 04:06:03 pm
chris, sorry, didnt see the "sub 10" bit. thats a new one on me. just looked on their page for "SSR"m, no joy. take it you flog it? can you send me details. ordered there marine 40, hoping that will sort it. no agro with replacing connectors, you solder on youre own.
any more advice, greatly appreciated. this thing is costing a fortune, and i ain'nt bought any "gimmiks" as yet.

getting broke fast, girlfreind is actualy cheaper than this particular bit of my hobby

colin
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: sheerline on July 29, 2008, 09:39:44 pm
Hi Colin, simply type in 'mtroniks sub 10 viper' in your search box and click on the website, the whole thing will open for you.
I would attach some kind of link for you but my brain is fried after today and I can't remember how to do it.
If you do decide to go after such a unit, I do have one so let me know if you're interested.
Incidently, when I supply these items to my customers, I chop off the mtroniks plugs and fit my own as well as chopping off the  'on off' switch and permanently connecting the switch wires... I don't use the swiches as I simply connect the battery for power 'on' and disconnect for 'off'. If clients prefer them in original condition I simply supply them as they come.
Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: Subculture on July 30, 2008, 12:30:49 pm
Here you go.

http://www.mtroniks.net/details1.asp/ProductID/190/sid/10/Viper-sub10.htm

Title: Re: I have now joined the club - Engel Lafayette
Post by: steve*mac on December 20, 2008, 08:47:48 pm
I agree with the mtronics, have one in my Lafayette and despite some over-enthusiastic useage never had any dramas... talking of which, anyone want to buy a lafayette, having a clearout.. too many subs and too little a shed.. :D