Model Boat Mayhem

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => The "Black Arts!" ( Electrics & Electronics ) => Topic started by: lenny on July 17, 2008, 05:43:31 AM

Title: Got a smoke mate
Post by: lenny on July 17, 2008, 05:43:31 AM
This Question has probably been asked heaps before but does anyone know how to build a smoke generater.
I do recall reading of one ages ago but carn't find the article.
Thanks Lenny
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: barryfoote on July 17, 2008, 07:02:50 AM
I think this is what you are after. Not mine but I asked the same question. I have not built it yet but I know some chaps have done with great success.

Barry
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: lenny on July 17, 2008, 09:59:04 AM
Hey Barry.
This is fantastic O0     
Just what I needed to sus out. Thank you very much.
I dont suppose one could use something like olive oil or sorts if you have difficulty finding fog machine fluid ?
I will build one as soon as I can and send you a photo Barry, Thank you again
Lenny 
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: barryfoote on July 17, 2008, 10:20:44 AM
A pleasure Lenny but it is not my idea. I got it off a very nice chap on the forum. As I said, others have used it and reports suggest it works very well..
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Stavros on July 17, 2008, 06:13:20 PM
is it really worth the hassle of building your own it seems a lot of hassle to me when there are perfectly good examples being sold by reputable companies lie Action
What i am getting at is this it will cost a lot more to source the bits than it would to buy one!!!!!!!!!!!



Stavros
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: offshore1987 on July 17, 2008, 07:05:22 PM
I was sat here the other day thinkin, why cant we use the water ones from the little water features that garden centers sell? ( like the mini ones )  :D

They do the same job as the jjc ones... might be worth stripin one to have alittle look

All the best
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Proteus on July 17, 2008, 07:57:58 PM
is it really worth the hassle of building your own it seems a lot of hassle to me when there are perfectly good examples being sold by reputable companies lie Action
What i am getting at is this it will cost a lot more to source the bits than it would to buy one!!!!!!!!!!!



Stavros

Why  bother building the boat ?  there are some good ready made ones.

I think it may be because you can.

Proteus

Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: RickF on July 17, 2008, 11:41:20 PM
I've just built something similar (6 volt) to go in my Nile gun-boat. Currrently under trial, I'm burning 3-in-1 oil, which is probably carcinogenic - especially with a splash of used Austin 7 sump oil to thicken up the smoke!

Does anyone know what makes up disco fog fluid? I'd rather mix my own than buy it.

Rick
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Reade Models on July 17, 2008, 11:58:57 PM


You can buy disco fog fluid from Maplin

Malc

Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: OMK on July 18, 2008, 01:41:35 AM
What i am getting at is this it will cost a lot more to source the bits than it would to buy one!!!!!!!!!!!
Stavros

Yeah, but Stavvy baby, if you BUY one is when you miss all the fun of making your own.
I'll bet the lawyers down at ACTion will have my guts for garters for saying this, but I'll also bet that Maplin's telephone lines have been red-hot since Malc Read's neat little snippet.
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 18, 2008, 04:29:33 AM
I was sat here the other day thinkin, why cant we use the water ones from the little water features that garden centers sell? ( like the mini ones )  :D

They do the same job as the jjc ones... might be worth stripin one to have alittle look

All the best

Not an issue really.

You just have to build yourself a circuit board with a coil that will Invert your model ship power to
24vac-54vac. Once that's done it's just a matter of building a water box and fan.

 8)
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Reade Models on July 18, 2008, 07:11:22 AM


I've got visions of a viking funerary longboat blazing merrily as it sails into the sunset taking its former master to Valhalla... {-) {-)

Malc



Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on July 18, 2008, 07:12:34 AM
I'll bet the lawyers down at ACTion will have my guts for garters for saying this, but I'll also bet that Maplin's telephone lines have been red-hot since Malc Read's neat little snippet.

Lawyers?? Eat my shorts! A good sneer works for me.
I'm still trying to get my delicate little gob round "disco fog fluid" - not easy to say after a couple of wine gums and a glass of tepid water.
As for Maplins, there are about twelve so-called assistants in the big Nottingham store, and I reckon the first thing they're taught is how to ignore the phone (followed after the fag break by "How to ignore customers").
FLJ
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Reade Models on July 18, 2008, 07:16:07 AM


You have to rise to the challenge.. {-) {-)

Malc

Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: barryfoote on July 18, 2008, 07:45:15 AM
This Question has probably been asked heaps before but does anyone know how to build a smoke generater.
I do recall reading of one ages ago but carn't find the article.
Thanks Lenny

Lenny,
Now you understand why it is called "Mayhem"....Ask a simple question and a wonderful debate starts.....Great fun..
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Reade Models on July 18, 2008, 08:21:54 AM

On a more serious note, and looking back at Umi's post,

Quote
You just have to build yourself a circuit board with a coil that will Invert your model ship power to
24vac-54vac.


The ubiquitous JJC smoke unit (actually water vapour) only came into being because Jim Casey managed to source a nebuliser from somewhere a long way east of Great Yarmouth than ran on 12V DC.

The use of an inverter to convert AC to DC is electrically very inefficient.  The commercial inverters that you plug into the cigarette lighter in your car that convert 12V DC to 230V AC (110V AC across the pond) rely on the fact that a car battery holds a relatively large charge.  Nonetheless, these inverters use a lot of that charge very quickly.

Heaters in smoke generators that vapourise (apologies to Umi for the English spelling) fluids are resistive loads connected across the battery in the model and again, dissipate a lot of power (as heat).  The struggle to design an efficient smoke generator goes on...

Malc



Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 18, 2008, 05:36:51 PM

I did some analysis on a JJC smoker that had become "sick".
Turned out to be a burned out fan, which probably incurred some water damage.

The output voltage read by my multimeter was 1-54 volts AC to the "mist" generator, and
5 volts DC to the fan. I believe the coil on the circuit board was doing the inverting.
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Tug-Kenny on July 18, 2008, 07:47:45 PM

HI Umi

This is exactly what happened to mine. The fan stopped turning so I bought a new one at a cost of 12 Pounds !!
Also the thing is very sensitive to starting up. Seems the sensor would work if you touched it with your finger ??  so I cut back the tape around it, to make a better water connection.

With regards the Maplin versions, they are absolutley superb when dunked in the pool. Water vapour everywhere. Unfortunately, as it has been said, they do run on 28 volts A-C .

The A-C is indeed manufactured on JJC's board, but if a way of making them was cheap enough then I have two Maplin misters ready for production.  8)

Ken
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: lenny on July 19, 2008, 01:36:15 PM
Lenny,
Now you understand why it is called "Mayhem"....Ask a simple question and a wonderful debate starts.....Great fun..
[/quote]


Hey Footski
Your right Barry.
Nothing like opening a can of worms.
Lenny.
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: barryfoote on July 19, 2008, 03:05:11 PM
It usually does 8) 8)
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: OMK on July 19, 2008, 03:29:09 PM
"Nothing like opening a can of worms."

Nah, not a can of worms - merely lots of good ideas being bandied around, is all. For instance, Malc Reade set my wheels in motion as soon as he mentioned that Maplin sell the disco fog fluid.  FLJ was also bang-on because trying to explain disco fog fluid to some faceless, spotty oik on the end of the Maplin hot-line is a no-brainer from the start. Try it for yourselves... The next time you find yourself over Bournemouth way, pop into the local Maplin store and ask for a ORP12 light-dependant resistor. And promise not to laugh when you see what they bring you.

I took the liberty of taking Footski's sketch down to our local chemist... along with a mention of nebulisers, etc. The chap behind the counter takes one look at it and sez, "Sure, leave it with me."
In the meantime, while he's working on the oil/chemistry side of things, I'm working on the ac/dc converter.... preferably one that doesn't sap all the juice from a gel-cell in three minutes flat.

Thanks for the neat tip, amigo Footski. Watch this space...........
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 19, 2008, 03:35:18 PM
Quote
Watch this space...........

And for a small mushroom cloud where your chemist's used to be.... ;)
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: OMK on July 19, 2008, 03:38:01 PM
Heheheheheheheheheheheheheeeeeeeee!!
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: barryfoote on July 19, 2008, 04:17:28 PM
Quote
Watch this space...........

And for a small mushroom cloud where your chemist's used to be.... ;)

Now I am getting all nervous........NOT MY ORIGINAL IDEA.......

I am sure ( I think ) all wll be well...
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Colin Bishop on July 19, 2008, 04:37:11 PM
Quote
I am sure ( I think ) all wll be well...

Well, it would have to be pretty spectacular to have an impact where you are. Still....... ???
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: offshore1987 on July 19, 2008, 05:22:04 PM
Umi your jjc thing is diffrent to mine? Did mr jjc make lots of diffrent ones?


All the best
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 20, 2008, 02:42:51 AM
Umi your jjc thing is diffrent to mine? Did mr jjc make lots of diffrent ones?


All the best

The thing, or the thingy? :D

That unit was sent to me as "Broken, if you can fix it you can keep it."
It was different than the one I installed in Billy's Tito Neri also.
It has three different jumpers, rather than three pins and jumper setting one or jumper setting two.

And I was a bit confused trying to get a DC voltage reading off of the power leads to the mist unit.
Then it occured to me, try the AC settings... Bingo... the unit cycles between 1 and 54 volts AC.
The fan pulses for "puff", and runs constant for desiel.  However, this one seems to puff at Idle, and
I can't get it to change.  ???

New fan was 11.50 plus shipping AND stock fee... 15 total... :(
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Bunkerbarge on July 20, 2008, 10:17:22 AM

As fact as I know Jim produced two versions of his "Old Smokey", the Mark 1 and the Mark2.

The Mark 1 came in two versions, one with a diesel control board that gave a boost on start up, and one with a steam control board that didn't.

The Mark 2 combined the two boards and incorporated a mode switch for changing over between the two and also incorporated a "show" mode which allowed the unit to operate without input from the motor, for instance when on display at shows.  I think the plug arrangement changed as well but without mine in front of me I can't remember the differences.
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on July 22, 2008, 06:38:22 PM
Somone, your side of the pond, just posted that they have leads to a 12vdc mist generator.
Hopefully he pops up with more info. I messaged for more info.

 8)
Title: Re: Got a smoke mate
Post by: number-1 on July 23, 2008, 08:55:47 PM
just read this thread for making smoke fluid http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8609.0 have not tried it myself but maybe worth having a look
cheers Les