Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => DC Motors (Brushed) and Speed Controllers => Topic started by: whiskeyfrank on August 17, 2008, 01:39:53 AM

Title: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 17, 2008, 01:39:53 AM
Ive wired up my electrics as per the diagram so whats wrong??

There must be something wrong because ive gone through 2 ESCs without even getting 2 seconds on the motor.

Each time i switch it on i get 1/2  second movement from the motor then nothing else, the esc just wont move the motor, i am presuming im blowing the esc's but ive done 2 now. The esc is 110amp so should at least turn the motor.

Whats wrong with my wiring. Im not doing any more yet as its just too plain expensive to keep buying esc's.

Ans i thought nitro was expensive, if this is right then im going back to nitro!!!!!!!!!!

Any one want to buy some batteries chargers wiring and motor - never used????????????????
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Proteus on August 17, 2008, 01:48:24 AM
what ESCs is it , and is it a 12v one  and has it got a bec?  Oh and the size of use.


Proteus
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: geoff p on August 17, 2008, 02:24:20 AM
Does your rudder servo work?
That's a quick way to find if the receiver is powered properly.

I had similar problem because of my lack-of-knowledge: the BEC was fighting against the receiver's battery supply.  Big Whoops!  Occasional twitches from motor but that was all.
The shop told me to remove the separate receiver battery pack, the BEC would do the job. That ended that problem.

I'd also suggest trying with a single battery - 6V rather than 12V - and work things out without risk of blowing ESC or anything else.  120 Amps is ample capacity (at 6V x 120 Amps = (nearly) 1 horsepower.)

Geoff
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 17, 2008, 06:31:56 AM
Is there a smell of burning?
Can you take a photo of the setup?
Also, try it on one battery, 6volts first.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barryfoote on August 17, 2008, 09:05:57 AM
Contact FLJ at ACTion. He will sort it for you. Personally, I am not sure about the motor wiring, but then I never use two batteries...

Barry
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 17, 2008, 01:32:53 PM
the esc has a bec and im not using a seperate battery pack.

Ill try and get a picture.

Ive tried with one battery and the same happens.

There is no smell of burning.

who is FLJ and ACTion??

Thanks everyone
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barryfoote on August 17, 2008, 02:13:24 PM
the esc has a bec and im not using a seperate battery pack.

Ill try and get a picture.

Ive tried with one battery and the same happens.

There is no smell of burning.

who is FLJ and ACTion??

Thanks everyone

FLJ is only the most famous elctronics chappy on the forum (Well he thinks so but we all credit Wombat with the real brains ha ha). Do a search for members on the forum and send him a Pm or look at his website and send him an email.  Very approachable, friendly guy..

This is the web page.

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2008, 02:17:00 PM


FLJ is only the most famous elctronics chappy on the forum (Well he thinks so but we all credit Wombat with the real brains ha ha). Do a search for members on the forum and send him a Pm or look at his website and send him an email.  Very approachable, friendly guy..

This is the web page.

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/
OK Barry, give, what electronic goody are you after now ?  ;)
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2008, 02:20:55 PM
Definitely could do with photo of all wiring including Rx. O0
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 17, 2008, 02:44:05 PM
What size fuse is fitted and does the motor turn freely by hand?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 17, 2008, 02:45:38 PM
photo coming but ive taken all the wire out for now.

The motor turns fine its new and tested.

15 amp fuse - not blown tested
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barryfoote on August 17, 2008, 03:20:32 PM


FLJ is only the most famous elctronics chappy on the forum (Well he thinks so but we all credit Wombat with the real brains ha ha). Do a search for members on the forum and send him a Pm or look at his website and send him an email.  Very approachable, friendly guy..

This is the web page.

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/
OK Barry, give, what electronic goody are you after now ?  ;)

Dave,

What a suggestion.......I'm really hurt...Got all I need......FOR NOW!!!! O0 O0
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2008, 03:39:24 PM
Dave who, too much sun is it Barry ?  :-\
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 17, 2008, 04:07:36 PM
whiskeyfrank  hi there

May I enquire as to what make of speed controller you are using?

The other think I can only think of for the time being is; when you come to switch everything on, are you switching your transmitter on first?   Followed then by your receiver, and then, your main battery?   Or, if you are using BEC are you switching your main battery on.

The reason I am saying this is, a lot of speed controllers now use a PIC/or a processor and what this basically does is search for a signal - from the transmitter.   If it doesnt receive a signal, it may go into a 'shut down' mode.   

Dont know if that may help.

Aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 17, 2008, 04:52:16 PM
Good point John, check the sequence for turning things on in the speed controller
instructions, we've ALL been caught by that old chestnut! Also, have you tried the
motor direct onto the batteries?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barryfoote on August 17, 2008, 06:18:38 PM
Dave who, too much sun is it Barry ?  :-\

Richard or Dave or whatever you are called. O0......Don't know where that came from!!!!!Maybe FLJ as in dave Milbourn........Mind must be going......Boy it is warm here... 8)
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 17, 2008, 06:32:55 PM
Nice picture.... I think you've enough to blow a 15 A fuse in 2 secs.
Long term........
Your running a 700 motor on 12 volt ?? What sort of prop and what reduction gear ratio?
Do you know what shaft revs you'll get with your prop at full throttle?
Do you know what current drain,power output,efficiency that will give?

Checklist........
Is the prop in water and the fuse still intact?
What does ESC instructions say about protection mechanisms ? (thermal ,current limiter,torque control)
What does setup do with a bulb instead of a motor?
Is it one of these stupid ESC's that you have to switch on in sequence?
What do ESC indicator lights do ?
Manufacturer and model of esc ? Same goes for receiver?
How long will your switch last and does the esc not have a bec enable loop for switch disabling?
Is switch suppressed?

Eliminate being plugged into a third channel with a two channel Tx.....
What does servo in ESC channel do if you plug ESC to rudder channel ?

Eliminate BEC cutout............
What is the allowable current load on the bec?
Can bec handle the (Vin - 5) x (load current) power ? i.e. is bec on a heatsink?
What is upper voltage limit?
What does servo in other channel do?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 17, 2008, 07:02:58 PM
ive took all the wiring out (hence ive mocked up what i had) so i can finish the hull.

wow so many questions. so little knowledge!!! (me that is)

yes the sequence is correct
fuse is intact
motor spins with battery direct
no idea about the esc, told it was suitable by mdel shop, came with little instructions, Model shop not helpful
futaba gear apart from esc
rudder servo works fine
checked the output using a meter and nothing from the esc (bulb check)
switch is rated much higher

i have attached a picture but only a mobile photo as the wife has taken the camera for the day!

sorry it looks adhoc but ive ripped it all out to do something useful to the hull (prob get it ready for an engine!!) and no my soldering is usually better and insulated its just for the picture.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 17, 2008, 09:24:20 PM
Hi Whiskyfrank,
 I have doubts that you damaged an ESC....... I think it is down to a cutout mechanism of a modelflight forward only esc.
Powered glider ones cut out throttle deliberately.
Some require waggling throttle to arm them.

Forget pics of receiver....instructions and ESC would help.
Can't even tell from pic if you've paralleled the batteries......5-cells would trigger a low-battery cutout in electric flight.
I trust your diagram is correct?

I see you mention a meter and you have 10 NiMh cells.....That's not 12 volts.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 17, 2008, 09:29:26 PM
Is esc in a purple ribbed anodised aluminium case?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 17, 2008, 10:22:26 PM
10 cells @ 1.2v = 12volts  O0
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: warspite on August 17, 2008, 10:57:51 PM
Is esc in a purple ribbed anodised aluminium case?

Looks blue to me, like an Xtra by ripmax
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Stavros on August 17, 2008, 11:00:37 PM
Hi Whiskyfrank,
 I have doubts that you damaged an ESC....... I think it is down to a cutout mechanism of a modelflight forward only esc.
Powered glider ones cut out throttle deliberately.
Some require waggling throttle to arm them.

Forget pics of receiver....instructions and ESC would help.
Can't even tell from pic if you've paralleled the batteries......5-cells would trigger a low-battery cutout in electric flight.
I trust your diagram is correct?

I see you mention a meter and you have 10 NiMh cells.....That's not 12 volts.

2x 1.2v equalls 6v so times 2 equals 12v got the same packs myself supplied if I am not mistaken from Component shop and when you connect them the way they are connected they give 12+ . When they are newly charged they show more or less 7v ish each


Stavros
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 17, 2008, 11:56:01 PM
What information in on the speed controller?
What model is it?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 18, 2008, 01:06:06 AM
OK dickyD........just try taking your electric flight model out for a spin after checking the pack is fully charged (6 volt) O0 

OK Stavros
Quote
2x 1.2v equalls 6v so times 2 equals 12v
.....I think not
Quote
When they are newly charged they show more or less 7v ish each
  slightly more than 14 (not 12).

You may find some speed controllers and servos will work with a 6 volt receiver supply but not a 5 cell Ni-mH pack or 4 new Duracell's......just an example where accuracy counts.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: andygh on August 18, 2008, 01:10:26 AM
Looks like one I got off ebay for about 20 from Hong Kong, mine works OK'ish but I'd try a different type before giving up
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on August 18, 2008, 08:34:55 AM
There are some cheap ex-Hong Kong speed controllers which have absolutely no dead-band at all i.e. unless your Tx is transmitting a neutral signal at exactly 1.5ms then the ESC will just sit and do nothing.
If you have a throttle stick with a ratchet then you're onto a hiding to nothing to try to find an exact neutral. If that is  the case then try using the rudder (steering) stick to test this thing instead, as it has a spring-centred action and is more likely to be near the 1.5ms mark at rest. Also make sure that the trim lever is set exactly in the centre. If you don't have access to an oscilloscope then you'd need some other means of detecting and displaying the transmitted pulse. I have further details if required.
If that doesn't work then take the offending items back to the model shop and see if they will replace them of refund your money. Good luck! Finally, buy a different make of ESC from a reputable UK manufacturer.
I'm afraid we don't yet make one suitable for a 700BB Turbo on 12 or 14.4 volts.............

BTW Barry Park, there's nothing "stupid" about a regime which requires you to switch on the Tx first and off last. If nothing else, a model with a live electric motor and a receiver which is open to any spurious signals is a dangerous thing to handle.

You can suit yourself, mate, but I value my fingers.

FLJ
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: RantandRave on August 18, 2008, 08:54:42 AM

I was fighting a speed controller with a similar problem a little while ago, turned out I had the speed controller plug
in the receiver the wrong way round (ie 180o). When all plugged up, does the rudder work? If so the
speed controller is working and providing the BEC voltage and ther is something wrong with the setup procedure
on the speed controller.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 18, 2008, 09:53:14 AM
Quote
BTW Barry Park, there's nothing "stupid" about a regime which requires you to switch on the Tx first and off last. If nothing else, a model with a live electric motor and a receiver which is open to any spurious signals is a dangerous thing to handle.

You can suit yourself, mate, but I value my fingers.

Such a regime is completely redundant. In the era of the microcontroller it is possible for a speed controller to.....
1 be completely immune to spurious output from receivers.
2 suppress the motor at switch on.
3 actually have a startup procedure option (disabled on default reset)
4 be used to reliably detect an R/C transmitter on YOUR receiver frequency.
WhiskyFrank's esc appears not to manage 2 .
 The remaining weakness where spurious immunity ESC can be operated by a second party transmitter on same frequency is shared by the one without that ability. It can also have feature 3.

I have been told by a kit supplier (who bought a batch of hundreds esc's requiring startup routine each time they were switched on) that the esc's startup procedure was the cause most customer gripes to helpline. He decided against supplying it in his kits.....flogged them on Ebay.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 18, 2008, 10:15:14 AM
OK dickyD........just try taking your electric flight model out for a spin after checking the pack is fully charged (6 volt) O0 

OK Stavros
Quote
2x 1.2v equalls 6v so times 2 equals 12v
.....I think not
Quote
When they are newly charged they show more or less 7v ish each
  slightly more than 14 (not 12).

You may find some speed controllers and servos will work with a 6 volt receiver supply but not a 5 cell Ni-mH pack or 4 new Duracell's......just an example where accuracy counts.
OK barry park, first off my boats dont fly and secondly two of them run on 5 cell NimH packs very successfully thankyou.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 18, 2008, 11:22:15 AM
Hi there WhiskyFrank

I wonder if this is the speed controller with the following specifications; that you are using


Specifications 
Dimensions  54.8mm x 40mm x 14.7mm 
Working Voltage  6 - 12V 
BEC Current  5V/3A 
Internal Resistance  0.0076mΩ 
Continuous Output Current  110A (Forward)
40A (Backward) 
Cable Type  16 AWG (Battery & Motor) 
Cable Length  140mm (Battery & Motor)
450mm (Receiver) 
Input Battery Types  NiCd/ Nimh/ Li-po battery 
Recommend Model  Ship / Car 

- - - -

This looks similar to the speed controller which you have (to me anyway) -one thing which does spring to mind, are you using the Futaba Mini 3/4 channel receiver?   I cannot remember the model number of the receiver just now; however, not so long ago, we had a lot of problems which were mentioned by other members of this Forum, using this miniature receiver to drive Electronize 30 amp speed controllers.

I wonder if this could be a similar problem which you are experiencing?    I wonder if you have access to another RX?  preferably of a 6 channel model?    Or, a totally different radio set-up e.g. HiTec to test the speed controller out with that?

Let us know what is happening?  It may just be a simple solution - you may have your speed controller signal plug around the wrong way.  O0

aye
John e
bluebird



Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 18, 2008, 05:44:33 PM
thats the one i have in the last photo.

I dont have access to any other radio set other than th 2 channel futaba set up i have now.

Im using a 2 channel standrad futaba receiver. The plus is in the right way.

Im giving up on these esc's as it seems to be the problem, the instructions have not set up procedure just switch the tx on first.

Is there an esc that can be reccomended?? Ideally that would work with the set up i have.

Thanks

Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barriew on August 18, 2008, 07:10:20 PM

Is there an esc that can be reccomended?? Ideally that would work with the set up i have.


As FLJ has ruled himself out of this {-), then the other two to consider are Electronize and Mtroniks.

Barrie
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 18, 2008, 07:15:09 PM
hi there

Before we discuss speed controllers , we really need to know what model we are dealing with.   Basically, I think we are dealing with a speedboat here?   but, what size of boat etc., this would be helpful before we delve into what speed controllers.

Be careful with using Electronize - will discuss this further when we have a bit more detail.   Electronize are very expensive for it not to work with your radio set.

aye
john e

bluebirdy
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 18, 2008, 07:29:46 PM
I use Overlander 50amp speed controller Discharge: 50A forward/20A reverse. Plug in and go, no set up needed.

Its simplicity itself just plug it in.

I have four, no trouble at all.

Idiot proof, which is why I use them. ;)

A Model World normally do them at a good price.

http://www.amodelworld.co.uk/
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 18, 2008, 08:17:37 PM
 
Quote
This looks similar to the speed controller which you have (to me anyway) -one thing which does spring to mind, are you using the Futaba Mini 3/4 channel receiver?   I cannot remember the model number of the receiver just now; however, not so long ago, we had a lot of problems which were mentioned by other members of this Forum, using this miniature receiver to drive Electronize 30 amp speed controllers.

I wonder if this could be a similar problem which you are experiencing?    I wonder if you have access to another RX?  preferably of a 6 channel model?    Or, a totally different radio set-up e.g. HiTec to test the speed controller out with that? 


You are referring to this thread http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3622.0
BarrieW''s post in that thread diagnosed that the ESC was not compatible with TTL servo signals. (The 2.5 volt PWM pulses on white)
That was a huge clanger on behalf of the esc supplier.
The cure is to ensure the receiver supply is not too high i.e. use 5 volt BEC.  CMOS inputs will then recognise 2.5 volts as a "high"
WhiskyFrank cannot have that problem because he is using the esc 5 volt BEC
Quote
You may find some speed controllers and servos will work with a 6 volt receiver supply but not a 5 cell Ni-mH pack or 4 new Duracell's......just an example where accuracy counts. 
I refer to my bit on TTL /CMOS voltage threshold compatibility.


The same incompatibility problem occurs when you use Fleet and Acoms servos with Futaba receivers.
Nothing to do with PCM as Futaba PWM receivers have used 2.5 v signals for many years. Old Macgregor and Simprop receivers had TTL chips in them and only put out 2.1 volt pulses on white wire.



Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 18, 2008, 08:36:27 PM
Hi barry park I hope you are open to a bit of constructive critisism.
Whilst we can appreciate that you must have extensive electronic knowledge, probably some degree or other I feel I should point out that the majority of us haven't.
Whilst your postings are very impressive I think you will find that the majority of us have not got a clue what you are on about and if we had you would not have had to do the posting in the first place
Could you possibly remember in your future postings that the majority of us are laymen not experts.
Check out bluebird's and FLJ's posting and you will see what I mean, them we can understand. O0.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 18, 2008, 08:49:38 PM
Hi whiskeyfrank,

Does the rudder servo work?

Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 18, 2008, 10:17:21 PM
If you don't have access to an oscilloscope then you'd need some other means of detecting and displaying the transmitted pulse....

...such as one of Action's P59 Servo Tester units (the 21-digit LED display will show you the exact servo pulse from the Rx -- no need for a 'scope).
However, I'd put my money on the fact that most of today's ESCs rely on a lower signal pulse voltage - especially the microcontroller-based ESCs (re: that TTL/CMOS thing which has already been mentioned).
In the good old days, when the ZN409 chip was King, just about every R/C receiver would deliver a signal pulse which was pretty much on par to the voltage of the Rx battery (i.e: 4.8 volts or 6.0 volts). But these days (especially now that 2.4GHz is upon us), a lot of receivers are only pumping out something in the order of a 2 or 3-volt signal.... which makes any ancillary units pretty much redundant.
But there is an easy work-around to this problem.

WhiskeyFrank, I know absolutely nothing at all about your particular ESC - I'm not familiar with that one at all. But would you mind helping me out with a little experiment here?....
Grab yourself a grok of the attached image. What this circuit does is to take the signal from your Rx, then boost the pulse to that which the ancillary units can hear. This is about as simple as it gets.
Are you okay with a soldering iron? Would you be up to putting one of these units together?
Failing that, I could bung one together for you. At least we would all then know if my theory is good - or if your ESC has indeed gone blooie.

A tad more info at the top of this page....... http://www.pm.keirle.com/RCGlowplug/glowplug.htm
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 19, 2008, 11:30:19 AM
Hi all

PMK cheers for this circuit, I am going to build it right now - to see if it will rectify the problem between a miniature Futaba RX and the Electronize 30 amp speed controller - will let you know how I get on with it.

Richard - wor Dicky....what some people on the Forum want to understand is that 90% of model boaters - the most sophisticated electrical appliance they have for modelling; is a cheap handheld multi-meter - either digital or analogue and all they may use it for is to make sure that the batteries they have - have some life in them.

That is all they wish to know about electronics - hey that is no bad thing.

They wish to spend more time sailing their models - than they do worrying about electronics and how the electronics work.   (I am excluding meself in this) cos I dont spend that much time sailing now - do I Dicky.....

aye
john
bluebird
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 19, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Bluebird,
While you are trying esc and the miniature Futaba RX on the bench ,do me a favour too.
Does it work without the adapter with 4 alkaline batteries ?
Does it work without the adapter with 4 flattish 1.2 nicads at ~ 4.8 to 5.2 volts ?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 19, 2008, 02:49:10 PM
Hi once again, Bluebird. I just logged in and see that you posted your reply about 3 hrs ago. Not sure if that would have given you enough time to build and test that circuit yet, but just for the record, I can tell you that you should have no problem with it running from a Futaba Tx.
Although, whether it will work with you Electronize ESC is another matter, because you might run into another problem regarding the unit being compatible with the polarity of the pulse signal (whether it be high shift or low shift). If this is the case, then this too is easily rectified. All you need is a single transistor and a couple resistors to reverse the pulse polarity. If you have no luck with the booster circuit, then don't junk your ESC until you've tried shifting the signal polarity.

Waiting to see how you got on..................
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 19, 2008, 03:42:37 PM
yikes.......things are not turning out right YET.....

BE BACK
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 19, 2008, 03:45:01 PM
Pulse repetition rates ..................look away DickyD {-)

1960's 1 channel 27AM Macgregor RC set for yacht rudders ( 4 wires on servo plug)
servo pulse period 11 millisecond ,pulse height 2.2 volts

1970's 4 channel 27AM Futaba M-series RC set for yacht rudders
servo pulse period 13 millisecond ,pulse height 2.2 volts

1980's RC set
pulse height 2.5 volts
servo pulse period 20 millisecond

1990's 8 channel Futaba
servo pulse frequency ~50 Hz for PWM
pulse height 2.5 volts

1990's 16 Channel PCM
some sets up to 100 (according to my buddy)
pulse height 2.5 volts




Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 19, 2008, 04:52:32 PM
hI THERE one and all and PMK

finished the little project and had a trial with it ...  ;)

it sort of does what it says on the tin, the only problem I am having at the moment is - it repositions the neutrals on the TX stick - will have to sort this out when we can get use of an oscilloscope to set up the signal properly.

Yes, it definitely does drive an Electronize 30 ampers -  I have included a few pics....I did a quick trial with the batteries, 4.8 would not (without the signal booster) work - 6 volt was exactly the same.  More trials will be done in the near future.

Nippy little thing to build for anyone who does want to built it - one thing I have found out mind you...me eyes aint what they used to be  :D :D :D 8)

aye
john
bluebird
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 19, 2008, 05:32:20 PM
Thanks Bluebird !

PMK, Can you elaborate on this?
Quote
compatible with the polarity of the pulse signal (whether it be high shift or low shift).

I don't know what you mean. I've never encountered anything other than 0.9 - 2 millisec positive servo pulses.

I have,however, seen than term applied to servo signals meaning 1.5 +/-  0.5 millisecond and changing servo rotation by inverting the signal length around the 1.50 milisecond neutral.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 19, 2008, 09:15:19 PM
Thanks guys but im really lost now on this as im mechanically minded not electrinically.

And yes the rudder servo works fine.

How about a seasprint or jeti 600?? as an option
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 19, 2008, 09:27:51 PM
Bluebird,

First of all, nice photos. Nice work.
Secondly, I'm not sure why that circuit should be repositioning your stick neutrals. All it should do is boost the amplitude of the pulse signal - nothing else. So I'm taking a wild guess that maybe the pots on your gimbals are slightly out of alignment. The obvious way to tell if that's happening is by hooking up your Tx to the oscilloscope. I would offer to loan you my 'scope but I reckon 'twould cost and arm and a leg to get it to you.
Although, there is an alternative solution.......
I'm sending you my P59 servo tester (check the ACTion website for the low-down). With it you'll be able to see exactly where your gimblals are in relation to the servo signal. The LED display will tell you when your pots are precisely aligned. (Don't thank me - send a bottle of grape juice to FLJ instead).
On the other hand, you're more than welcome to send your Tx this way. I have my 'scope here now - no problem to check it over for you. But in all honesty it's much more fun to dabble with the P59. That way you get to align the pots yourself.... you'll wonder how you ever managed without.

http://www.pm.keirle.com/P59/P59.htm
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 19, 2008, 09:40:15 PM
Whiskeyfrank:

Apologies for hijacking your thread here - I've been wandering slightly off topic to your original post.
For what it's worth, please feel free to send your ESC this way for a quick once-over on the bench. I won't cost you a penny more than the return postage.
Likewise, if you feel that you want to take the route of buying a new one, then may I suggest that you point your browser here...

http://www.dawnmist.demon.co.uk/rcm.htm

Good luck.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 19, 2008, 10:36:41 PM
PMK, Can you elaborate on this?

I'll try. But first off, I don't think we've had the pleasure. In which case, hello there.

Signal shift:
Imagine that you're looking at a standard 20mS PPM frame rate on an oscilloscope. When the signal is at zero volts is when the trace on the screen corresponds with one of the horizontal lines on the graticule (usually center of the screen). When the pulse signal comes along, the trace will either deflect UP from the zero reference point (positive shift) or down (negative shift).
It's no biggie. It's just a poncy way of stating how the signal is referenced from zero V.
My understanding is that Futaba have always employed a negative-going shift on all their encoders - they still are. Whereas some manufactures use a positive-going shift.... which would explain why some receivers do not work with some transmitters.

Regarding your penultimate post, it's interesting to see that even those early encoders from the '60s and '70 all had a frame rate of anything other than the usual 20mS. I had one just the other day that weighed in @ 17mS... then another at 26mS... and another @ some other frame rate that I can't even remember. Each one different.
But let's assume for a moment that the actual frame rate is not the issue. Instead, let's concentrate on the amplitude of the signal. I see you've recorded some signals as low as 2.2 volts. That's a new one me. Just about every transmitter that I've tested from that era, they all employed PPM encoders - each and every one chucking out a signal amplitude equating to the DC input.

Your turn to elaborate.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Stavros on August 19, 2008, 10:43:06 PM
Whiskey frank just go out and buy a Mtronics 40 amp speed controller it will handle the power of your Graupener 700bb turbos


Stavros
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 19, 2008, 10:56:44 PM
Thanks for all your help, im going to get a new esc and see what happens.

By the way took the esc back to the model shop and they told me to "go away" but no so nicely, so thats good service, NOT, feel like naming and shaming.

Maybe ill get it working eventually and arrive on lake Llanberis one day!!!!

Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Stavros on August 19, 2008, 11:18:30 PM
Where you from come on name and shame the model shop


Stavros
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: wombat on August 19, 2008, 11:37:23 PM
WhiskeyFrank

Can't see anything wrong with the setup you showed in the photo - so without getting probes onto the circuit, all I can suggest is that the ESC is playing games. One possibility is that it cannot cope with the inrush of the motor. Seen this with one ESC - edge the throttle up slowly and it ran fine, bang it onto full and the current surge trying to make the motor spin causes the ESC to trip. Were there any instructions with it?

PMK/Bluebird

Looking at the booster circuit - I suspect it will shift the neutrals - the rise and fall times will be fairly leisurely - this will effectively change the pulse width  - especially if (as I suspect) the rise and fall times are different. It will pull down easier than it pulls up so will tend to narrow the effective pulse width. YOu might get some improvement if you reduce the resistor values a factor of 10 or possible 100.

I hate to suggest it, but has anyone tried a simple pull-up resistor - say 1K ?

Pulse width is the information carrier so it doesn't surprise me the frame rates differ for different sets. Depends on the deadband between pulses and the size of the framing pulse. Again 2.2V doesn't surprise me too much. TTL specs give a minimum voltage for a high output as 2V. CMOS will pull to the rail if it is unloaded but the output will droop with load.  

Wom




Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 20, 2008, 12:37:04 AM
"I hate to suggest it, but has anyone tried a simple pull-up resistor - say 1K ?"

Hello, Wom.
No - I hadn't thought to stick a pull-up res' there. (You're talking of a pull-up across the output, right?).
I thought it a bit iffy to have those specified resistors less values than shown because, dig this, the original trannys on the breadboard were a couple of Darlingtons I found in the junquebox. Loads of HFE on those, hence........
I found that it worked just the same when I swapped out the trannys for a couple of bog-standards, even with those res' values shown.
One point of interest...
The Rx I used for testing the booster was one of those Futaba FASST jobbies. I'm reading approx' 2.8v on the pulse. The two transistors - as you know - are robbing that extra V from the Rx battery itself, now with enough zip to run the inputs of a '4013 MOS.

Re neutrals:
I can't say I noticed any difference regarding rise/fall times. Leastways, none that I could detect on my battered old 'scope.

You've likely also noticed that, regarding frame rates, it's nigh impossible to tell any difference in servo speed if the rate is, say, 25mS or even 15mS.
Talking of similar........ Some of the fly boys, with their new-fangled 'latency' buzzword would swear that they can tell a difference, but I reckon they're not from this planet.



Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 20, 2008, 03:11:02 AM
Whisky, I'll swap your esc's for two surplus esc's I have here if you can wait till you get a packet next Wednesday.They've run 700BB turbo motors (PM me with your addy if you want to take me up on it)

Wom, I asked Whisky to use a bulb in case current trip was below 700 stall.....no joy.

PMK,Bluebird
   Wom is spot on but try 2k2 to save a couple of milliamps.
As with all high gain inputs there needs to be an RF block so there is about 1 nF shunted from collector to ground within the esc.
It's the risetime that's too slow,transistor gain makes no difference. PMK's adapter should really put 1nf at input.
 
Thanks PMK for the description of pos neg shift but I see now that you your confusing it with polarity of the servo pulse train.I wasn't sure what you were getting at.
 
On the voltages...the Futaba servo standard has always been TTL (2.2 on 5volt rail with light load) and receivers only increased to 2.5 because Futaba,using new 4000 series CMOS (rail-rail) in their receivers with a low drop 2.5 low drop reg. supply and then through a 270 ohm resistor.Some receivers did put out higher Rail-Rail pulses(Fleet,Acoms,bec) but that was incidental and never a standard.
 That is where Bluebird's ESC designer c****d and up and nearly caved in under the deluge. Only just worked on 5 volt BEC and no more.
It's nowt to do with PCM sets....... it's down to CMOS threshold within the decoder that was assigned as an input pin (minimum 2.5 volt input at 5 supply)
Their first esc's used,an old servo chip, ZN409 could handle TTL levels but when the big changeover happened....oops.

Incidentally the early 10 and 15 amp models had two serious "issues" when operated on anything other than 5 volt BEC. Their ZN409 had an inbuilt voltage dependency to stretch throttle which compensated for low battery in early servos and maintained arm movement speed.
 When used in ESC's ,Futaba,Fleet,Hunter neutralised that tendency,as per the ZN409 data application recommendation. Early ZN409 E********ze and A****n ESC's didn't which meant that when the receiver pack went low the ESC noticeably went full out at only midrange throttle. Throttle setting had to be changed if batteries switched between NI-Cd and alkaline and E********ze could barely reach full throttle with four new alkaline batteries  and the ESC throttle trim maxed out.

 Another "small issue" in the last two types was the FET transistors were not fully switched on at low battery values.Consequently drive transistor resistance crept up and overheated,usually melting the two pole relay until the contacts shorted out the supply battery. :o
Fleet,Hunter designed out that possibility by charge pumping the FET gate voltage and Futaba used bipolar drive.Other manufacturers used low-threshold gate drive FET transistors.

Bluebird confirmed to me.(thanks O0) that ihis esc was yet another voltage design "issue" because I almost half believed the PCM story. If the supply voltage to the ESC is lowered to 5.0 it should work because that lowers the ESC CMOS input to just accept 2.5 volt servo pulses from mini receiver. Same reason why Acoms and Fleet servos will work with Futaba using re chargeargable (1.35 volt ) and not four 1.6 volt alkaline batteries.
Is receiver putting out 2.5 Bluebird? Did I read you had access to a scope?  If receiver pulses are lower the 5.0 bec fix wont work for that Rx.
I initially thought the problem was down to the increased frame rates some PCM users told me. Some PWM receivers grab that reading to enable PCM like error correction. 
DickD,did you read all of that ;) I just skip over long posts.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 20, 2008, 07:56:23 AM
Hi Wombat,

Looking at the booster circuit - I suspect it will shift the neutrals - the rise and fall times will be fairly leisurely - this will effectively change the pulse width  - especially if (as I suspect) the rise and fall times are different. It will pull down easier than it pulls up so will tend to narrow the effective pulse width. You might get some improvement if you reduce the resistor values a factor of 10 or possible 100.
Spot on there.  I said 2.2k to spare 2 mA.
Quote
I hate to suggest it, but has anyone tried a simple pull-up resistor - say 1K ?
A simple "open-collector" type pull up instead of booster will only add a fraction of a volt due to intrinsic diode in the output (shift reg.) chip
Quote
Pulse width is the information carrier so it doesn't surprise me the frame rates differ for different sets. Depends on the deadband between pulses and the size of the framing pulse.  

I agree there. I was offering unsolicited raw data to PMK and Bluebird because some after market designers are taking liberties and assuming a generous frame time......I speculated Bluebird's esc designer could have wrongly assumed a ~20 msec frame and designed in the so called "incompatibility with some PCM receivers" .....logical enough! (IPD PPM receiver"grabs" the frame period to help generate PCM quality failsafe. 8))

Since PCM sets don't have to output each channel sequentially like a PPM set they are not tied to the longer frame periods.
Bluebird's soldering job appears to provide proof the problem was the ESC voltage threshold was too high to recognise receiver "1's".
By the same token ,dropping the ESC voltage to 5 volts should have then allowed the ESC to pick up pulses as they'd just be within CMOS range.
Bluebird tried four flat rechargeables (~5 volt) and it didn't work so I wonder if the ESC input is a schmitt trigger set too high.There's definitely a capacitor on the input which is shortening pulses.

I think I'm adding to the myth that electrics is a black art :embarrassed:....enough said by me.
 
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on August 20, 2008, 08:22:31 AM
...enough said by me.

Shame.............just when it was getting interesting, too.
FLJ
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 20, 2008, 09:37:00 AM
Do I detect a touch of sarcasm there Dave ?
Still now we all know everything about whatever they were on about, whatever it was. :-\
Very educational, they that knows all about it explaining it to those that know all about it in a language that no one else can understand, I think. :-\

Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: grasshopper on August 20, 2008, 10:58:14 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon


otherwise known as double-dutch or 'it's all chinese to me'
I was impressed though, now I understand why it's in the 'all things Black Art'
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 20, 2008, 11:02:41 AM
And all we want to do is sail a model boat.... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) O0 :angel:
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on August 20, 2008, 11:04:49 AM
Do I detect a touch of sarcasm there Dave ?

Sarcasm? Moi?? Perish the thought, dear boy!   ::)
FLJ
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 20, 2008, 11:39:43 AM
And all we want to do is sail a model boat.... {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) O0 :angel:
You need to put it on a pond for that John.  ::)
Where's that avatar I sent you ?  :-\
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: malcolmfrary on August 20, 2008, 11:50:24 AM
When talking of a circuit with two transistors stretching pulse length, unless they are really horrible transistors, there should be nothing noticeable.  The pulse length is in the order of 1.5 thousands of a second - transistor switching time is a few nanoseconds, a factor of about a millionth - the only bits adding a capacitive element tat would extend this are the junctions of the transistors themselves and the stripboard tracks, and they should be totally insignificant in this application.
That said, it is a pity that there is no actual standard laid down for signals between RX and whatever gets plugged into them apart from whatever arises from what the component industry chooses to offer.  This results in the situation that any compatibility between old and new is accidental rather than intentional.  In the quest to cut costs, this often results in some items not working in the "core area" but in the "safety zone".  This is OK as long as the "safety zones" match.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin13 on August 20, 2008, 11:52:55 AM

Still now we all know everything about whatever they were on about, whatever it was. :-\
Very educational, they that knows all about it explaining it to those that know all about it in a language that no one else can understand, I think. :-\



Having an Electronics background myself, I also found the discussion interesting to read. But to those being the majority on this forum, its all double-dutch.

I hope Whiskeyfrank takes up PMK's offer of sending his esc to PMK - I'm very interested in the outcome not to mention that a forum member has offered to look at the item for just the cost of postage - Well done PMK O0

Martin doon under - looking on with interest :) :)
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Circlip on August 20, 2008, 12:50:52 PM
Very interesting and enlightening discourse barry park, welcome to  the gang.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 20, 2008, 02:30:23 PM
When talking of a circuit with two transistors stretching pulse length, unless they are really horrible transistors, there should be nothing noticeable.  The pulse length is in the order of 1.5 thousands of a second - transistor switching time is a few nanoseconds, a factor of about a millionth - the only bits adding a capacitive element tat would extend this are the junctions of the transistors themselves and the stripboard tracks, and they should be totally insignificant in this application.
......... and the load it was driving i.e. inside the ESC
Bluenird ,change R4 to a lower value as Wom says.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 20, 2008, 02:42:10 PM
When talking of a circuit with two transistors stretching pulse length, unless they are really horrible transistors, there should be nothing noticeable.  The pulse length is in the order of 1.5 thousands of a second - transistor switching time is a few nanoseconds, a factor of about a millionth - the only bits adding a capacitive element tat would extend this are the junctions of the transistors themselves and the stripboard tracks, and they should be totally insignificant in this application.
......... and the load it was driving i.e. inside the ESC
Bluenird ,change R4 to a lower value as Wom says.

Calling John "bluenird" aint doing you no favours old chap >>:-(
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 20, 2008, 05:15:19 PM
Bluebird,

It wasn't until I took another butcher's at the schematic that I noticed what all the hoo-ha is about.
Wom / barry park are right; I stand corrected.
See where R4 is shown as 47K? Ignore it - it's a typo. I should have a stuck a decimal point between the 4 and the 7 - 4.7K (or 4K7, or 4700 Ohms - not 47,000 Ohms).
Although, it does work with a 47K there, but........ Well, as we all now know, the rest is history.

My error -- sorry.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 20, 2008, 05:24:28 PM
Hi PMK
Whats a point berween friends  {-) {-)
I will Sort that problem later ,by the way thank you for the offer of the p59
FLJ boyo kindly furnished me with one a while ago  O0

aye
john e
BLUEBIRD
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 20, 2008, 05:35:44 PM
John,
I remember reading a piece where a NASA engineer had inadvertantly stuck a decimal in the wrong place and ended up sending a rocket into the sea. Just one iddly-diddly decimal point cost him his job - not to mention his reputation.

Welcome to the P59 club!
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 21, 2008, 08:22:38 PM
ok so now im really confused!! More so than before if thats possible.

I just thought i would try one last thing and hooked up a single battery and it works!!!

Its a bit slow but it works. So my question now is why wont it work with 2 batteries as per my original diagram.

Sorry i didnt try this at the start, but at least it gets us talking. And ys i think somone suggested 1 battery so im sorry..
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 21, 2008, 09:39:13 PM
Hi there Whiskyfrank

Have you checked the voltage of each individual pack - to see if they are of even voltage?  e.g. 6volts dead on each pack.   Have you checked the voltage in the combined battery packs in the way you wire them up?   to see if it is giving a 12 volts output or slightly more.

Your speed controller should be able to handle 18 volts - although it says it is max 12 volts, but, just to be on the safeside - do not put 18 volts through your speed controller!!!!

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 21, 2008, 09:44:28 PM
How about a dodgy battery connection ?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 21, 2008, 09:52:39 PM
10 out of 10 to you Ricard if it is a dry solder joint in the wiring  O0


john
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 21, 2008, 09:54:55 PM
battery connections are fine just tried some new ones

but, ive just metered the batteries and one is 6.23v and the other is 6.31v, not sure if this difference is significant enough but would this combined voltage is too much for the esc which is rated at 12v
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 21, 2008, 09:56:30 PM
Dont know if I am right but there is an awful lot of joins, plus it doesn't look as if the motor is suppressed John. O0
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 21, 2008, 09:57:59 PM
Have you tried both batteries seperately ?
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 21, 2008, 10:07:14 PM
just tried each battery and they both work fine. The motor was suppressed but i took them off while i was moving the motor, both to the body of the motor and across. tried with them back on and no difference.

There are a lot of joins as ive been trying lots of things, ive metered them all and they are all fine.

just wont work with 12v.

Is there  wiring diagram anywhere for 2 batteries and 1 esc, i looked all over the forum? just in case im wrong.

im going to take the batteries to less than 12v combined and see what happens
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 21, 2008, 10:09:12 PM
Hi what is the combined output voltage when both batteries are wired up ,using the meter to test

john
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 21, 2008, 10:19:23 PM
Try here, it might help.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fast.electrics/articles.htm
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: malcolmfrary on August 21, 2008, 10:22:52 PM
Hi what is the combined output voltage when both batteries are wired up ,using the meter to test

john
Quite importantly, wired up and under load.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 21, 2008, 10:37:09 PM
Frank,
A silly question, but you don't suppose you've got a dodgy cell in one of your batteries, do you? If that is the case it is possible that your voltmeter would show a healthy reading of the (unloaded) battery voltage, but it's also possible that the voltage may be dropping waaaay more than it should when you connect the load (the motor). Just out of curiosity, have you tried omitting the ESC and connecting the motor directly to the batteries? Connect your voltmeter across the motor terminals (with the two batteries connected at the same time) and see what sort of reading you're getting.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 21, 2008, 10:50:56 PM
they show 12.5v together, and ive tried the motor without the esc and it spins much after (of course).

ill have a look at the articles on that link and keep trying
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: whiskeyfrank on August 21, 2008, 10:54:25 PM
Thanks for the help guys, im off out and away for a couple of days and will try again when i get back.

Must get some rest from my soldering iron burns!!
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 21, 2008, 11:01:00 PM
In that case, I'll be the first to stick my hands in the air and admit.... I just don't know the solution.
It's weird that it (the ESC) should run on 6v but not 12.

Like someone else already said - maybe there's some sort of failsafe kicking in.
Or maybe the damn thing is shot to bits after all.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 22, 2008, 06:47:28 AM
Hi Whiskey,
Look here because you have two similar in your esc and they are blocking your motor.....http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/33634.pdf

Which protection mechanism in the list below tells me your test bulb was 230 volt or came out the trash bin?    :D
I'll bet if you tried a 12 volt headlamp bulb the result would have been different ...it would have proved your esc was  O0
I was on the case from the beginning but you gave a bum steer with the result of the bulb test.
Here's the list from that link if you have an aversion to 16 pages of jargon.

 Overload protection
 Current limitation
 Short circuit protection   ;) When you drop to a 6 volt pack your stall current is halved and falls below the trip point
 Overtemperature protection
 Overvoltage protection (including load dump)
 Clamp of negative voltage at output
 Fast deenergizing of inductive loads
 Low ohmic inverse current operation
 Diagnostic feedback with load current sense
 Open load detection via current sense       ;)  ESC saw your bulb as open circuit as it was not enough load.

.... I think you've enough to blow a 15 A fuse in 2 secs.
Long term........
You're running a 700bb motor on 12 volt ?? What sort of prop and what reduction gear ratio?
Do you know what shaft revs you'll get with your prop at full throttle?
Do you know what current drain,power output,efficiency that will give?

Look here and you'll see what I'm hinting at with the above quote .... http://www.johnsonmotor.com/Performance-Charts.266.0.html

Horizontal torque axis equates to prop size.
 Click on the Typical Applications and you'll find what Martin ,the forum admin,thinks are bad motors.
They are for cordless drills with a 100:1 reduction gearbox ....absolutely no use for direct driving a boat prop through water because they have a low torque/amp ratio. They need gears to drive any sort of load at all.
Stick them in a boat and the prop whines like a banshee in air.   Sink the prop under water and and it slows to a crawl.

The 700 motor is not that low a torque but you'll have to watch your prop size or you'll be on the stall half of the motor which is to the right of max power.
A rule illustrated on the graph , is if full throttle revs in water fall to less than half free running shaft speed ,the prop is too big.
You can see that point in black and white if you navigate to an actual motor page.....
 http://www.johnsonmotor.com/mediando/index.php?IdTreeGroup=49&IdProduct=459
.....and scroll to the foot of the page.
I'm thinking you have a turbo and not a torque version of the 700.
I also bet the 700 will blow a fuse the first long  burstin the water.You'll need to change the rating....that's OK cause your esc protection will actually react faster to your prop snagging on something.
Good luck anyway and I'm glad you got back on track. :)
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: OMK on August 22, 2008, 08:10:04 AM
Mercy sakes alive! :o
They teach 'em to talk to the talk, but they don't teach 'em how to listen.  {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-) ;D {-)

(And I normally never ever use smileys).
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 22, 2008, 08:36:30 AM
What is he on about PMK, no dont bother trying to explain it I didnt get a degree inelectrothingamejigs.

Does the man not speak English ? :-\
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin13 on August 22, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
Huh ??? :embarrassed: :-X :-\ :o you lost me

Martin du
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: John W E on August 22, 2008, 12:32:16 PM
Richard - Martin

from what I can make out through me garbage filter  ::)  what the man from rubbish heap is trying to say is

that the speed controller has built in safety; and, the motor that it is trying to drive with it is a super dooper one...

so, when it does kick off, the initial serge generated trips the speed controller in milliseconds...  :P me thinks

What we really need on this Forum, instead of a spell checker is a smell checker that sniffs out any garbage junk that is going to be typed and kicks it out..... :angel:

bluenird - time for revenge
 ;D
aye so it is.....  O0
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: Martin13 on August 22, 2008, 01:11:21 PM
Richard - Martin

from what I can make out through me garbage filter  ::)

What we really need on this Forum, instead of a spell checker is a smell checker that sniffs out any garbage junk that is going to be typed and kicks it out..... :angel:

bluenird - time for revenge
 ;D
aye so it is.....  O0


Hey John,

Can I have a copy of your garbage filter/translator {-) {-) {-) O0

Martin du :angel:
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: DickyD on August 22, 2008, 01:45:10 PM
Me too John  O0
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: barry park on August 25, 2008, 12:23:32 AM
...........................................................................This link has expired
.                                              http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/33634.pdf
But the same info is here           http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/siemens/BTS555.pdf
The bulleted list includes feature of the ESC that doesn't like a 700BB Turbo.
Longer (or smaller gauge) motor leads is a simple cure.
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: wombat on August 25, 2008, 08:19:07 AM
Didn't I say this a page or so ago?

Still nobody listens to me  >>:-( :'(
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on August 25, 2008, 09:27:58 AM
Didn't I say this a page or so ago?

Still nobody listens to me  >>:-( :'(

Wom
I listen to you, sweetheart............it's just that sometimes you don't seem to write enough.......... :o :o
Title: Re: OK so what am i doing wrong???
Post by: sweeper on August 25, 2008, 05:06:48 PM
Quote
What we really need on this Forum, instead of a spell checker is a smell checker that sniffs out any garbage junk that is going to be typed and kicks it out....

I would have thought that you would have come across these devices some time ago Bluebird.
We were issued with them at work (prior to having to listen to a lecture from management), went by the name of an "OXOMETER". ;)