Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: orby1 on April 13, 2006, 04:07:15 pm
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Hiya. Some of you may possibly remember the build-up thread I started on modelboats.co.uk, when I started building this Billings Slo Mo Shun. Well obviously the whole forum has disappeared and according to Martin from here, all the files have been lost! So here I am again. Over the months, I had posted 45 photos over 4 or 5 pages, had over 800 reads, and received a lot of very helpful advice - all of which has now gone!!! >:( Ah well. Here begins the start of a long job, re-posting all the pictures, and re-explaining what the heck I'm trying to do!
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I'll start with a shot of a few other boats my dad and I have built. My first 2 boats are on the right - the Billings Norden and Billings Phantom. Mine is the one with the blue painted seats. My dad and I built the same one so we could race them and see whose was the best. Mine ended up being a lot neater, but lost the contest due to engine failure on her maiden voyage! The other boats are my dad's - teh Clyde Pilots is (I think) a Calderdraft model, and I'm unsure about the other ones. Anyway he's just finished the Billings Smit Nederland, and begun a Model Slipway 'Maggie', so he's nice and busy.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum1_DSCF1590.jpg)
This is just another shot I like, taken on the same day.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum2_DSCF1596.jpg)
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Anyhoo - onto the Slo Mo.? Here's what we see when we open the box! I only have experience of Billings kits, so can't compare the quality of parts and fittings etc to other makes, but I've always been quite happy with the parts and quality of wood from them. :)
As you can see, the Slo Mo was a 1950's hydroplane.? Apparently the real thing did 180mph in the early 50's, and at full throttle only the prop was actually in the water.? That thing used to really go.? We'll see how my attempt fares in time....
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum3_DSCF2154.jpg)
Here we have the keel being attached to the, errr, 'bulkheads'. What would you call them?? All simple stuff so far anyway.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum4_DSCF2157.jpg)
This pic shows the side profile of the boat - see how the front curves up underneath.? You can see some longtitudinal struts have gone on too. A lot of care must be taken here to keep the keel dead-straight and true. It would be very easy to come out with a bent boat due to rushing this part.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum5_DSCF2161.jpg)
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Ah, I remember taking this one to show the 'shape' of the bow, how it curved upwards and was so flat.? I'd only seen photos of the boat up until the time I started to build it, and I hadn't really got a perfect idea how the thing looked until I could hold it in my hands, do you know what I mean?? You can see the keel acts as a sort of spine to hold these bulwark thingies in place while planking goes on.? At a later date the spine gets chopped off, you can see tiny dotted lines if you look closely at the front vertical piece, just under that strut.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum6_DSCF2162.jpg)
Right, problem number one!? As I trial fitted the planks on the top, I saw that the planks didn't actually touch the front piece of frame.? If I planked it like this, there'd be a concave dip on top of the bow, and I'm certain it shouldn't have one.? Well, I'm not CERTAIN certain, but I'm certain enough to do this:
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum7_DSCF2164.jpg)
I've just glued a bit of plank across the top of the frame piece.? Hey you can see the dotted line better here, too! ;D
OK, I started the planking here.? Some people hate planking, it's laborious, boring, etc, but I don't actually mind it.? I enjoy feeling the boat come together, like the feel of the wood, and working with it.? I don't mind taking my time to do it right, which I think is a very important mindset to have in boat building.? Rushing stuff to get it finished just bodges it up and you don't end up with something you can be really proud of.
Anyway, I waffle on.? I thought ahead and realised that planking the outer 'bulge' bits of the front half would be quite tricky, due to the angle as they curve round the the point of the bow. I kind of decided to 'pre-curve' inwards the planks on the top as they got towards the front.? I had no idea whether this was a good idea or not, but I figured I'd give it a go.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum8_DSCF2167.jpg)
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OK, here we have a shot of the top of the bow.? The tapering effect was meant to make these planks more parallel with the ones which will later go onto the bulgey side areas.? If I'd planked the whole thing lengthways there'd have been lots of planks with 'raw edges' along the front edge as it curved round towards the point of the bow.? In an ideal world I'd have had one plank running along the bottom edge all way to the point, but the wood wouldn't bend that much.? Anyway you'll see later how it went.? Oooo, the suspense.... ;D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum9_DSCF2188.jpg)
At this point I had to decide whether to plank those bulgey-outey side bits, OR the actual sides of the boat.? Both were looking just as hairy for different reasons, so it made no matter.? In the end I went for the sides.? Here's the problem I was looking at:
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum10_DSCF2187.jpg)
See how the sides curve underneath the boat as it goes towards the back end?? And widens out?? And twists?? All at the same time?? ?:o? I must admit to being a little daunted.? I just sat with the boat on my lap for a few nights as I watched telly, and occasionally looked at it and pondered the problem.
Eventually it came to me.? Here's how it ended up:
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum11_DSCF2203.jpg)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum12_DSCF2207.jpg)
Sorry the 2nd pic is slightly blurred, but you get the jist of what I did.? I don't want to blow my own trumpet here, but I'm really pleased with how this bit turned out.? There were no gaps, no anything.? I was surprised it worked this well as I had been so unsure about it for so long.
(Hey is there smiley with a swelling head?!!)
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Oh no, this has taken me over an hour to post just this far, I have about 30 more photos to do! ::)
Please be patient with me while I plough through and post them all, and then we can get up to date.
If anyone has any questions, or preferably advice for me, then please please speak up!
More in a couple of days -
Julian. ;)
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I'm enjoying your build up! Looking forward for further updates.
Voyager.
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Hi orby1
Having watched your progress, and been put off building one, I stumbled accross an old Vic Smeed plan for something similar called a Zing Ray. Looks much easier to build so I thought I would have a go at it. Also only a Fiver for lite ply if it all goes wrong. I may even work out how to post photo's as I understand from another posting it is easier on this forum.
Regards Bob
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Hi voyager,
Having watched your progress, and been put off building one, I stumbled accross an old Vic Smeed plan for something similar called a Zing Ray. Looks much easier to build so I thought I would have a go at it. Also only a Fiver for lite ply if it all goes wrong. I may even work out how to post photo's as I understand from another posting is is easier on this forum.
Regards Bob
Hi Bob, was this in reply to me, or to Voyager? I think I recall you saying something along the lines of being put off building one of these on the other forum, but I may be mixing you up with someone else!! :D Anyway I'd be very interested in anyone else building something similar to the Slo Mo, as there don't seem to be a heck of a lot of models like it around. if you need any advice about posting pictures, drop me a PM or something and I'll tell you how I do it, it's not hard. :)
Anyhoo, on with the build. Got to catch up somehow!!
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After spending a while getting the sides done, I was left looking at this - the following photo.? I was quite pleased with the planking, it was almost a shame I was going to have to cover it up later with the mahogany veneer!? ?I was showing people at work how the build was coming along, and got tired of explaining that although it would all be covered up, it still needed to be done well - I didn't want to leave big gaps or holes, if nothing else I was worried about the structural integrity suffering if half of it was made out of filler!?
(In fact what I got sick of telling people most was which way up it was meant to be... ::) !!!)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum13_DSCF2195.jpg)
You'll see later on I have problems concerning the strength of the structure as I hit another problem, but we aren't quite up to that point yet.? Luckily I had helpful advice and input from the fellas on modelboats forum, and they put me straight.
The following pic shows me trying very optimistically to 'fan' the planking on the sides of the hull.? I was hoping that I could in some way lessen the amount of bare edges of planks along that bottom edge (am I explaining this very well? ;D). I actually started with the second plank up, which I drilled and pinned on (0.5mm drill-bit with 0.6mm pins) as that would set the angle to start from - the next photo to come shows why this was so, as it's taken from the underneath.? I had to pin it as that was the only way to get the "xxxxx" to stay put!
Anyway, this whole process was done to try and add strength and ridgidity to the hull, and also because I've had a situation before where I've had to work with bare ends of planks, and I've struggled trying to sand them, and keep them stuck together.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum14_DSCF2201.jpg)
These planks coming apart along that edge has been a problem actually, due to the curvature of the boat, there isn't complete contact between the planks lying side by side (it's not like they're on a flat surface), so you have to sort of, fill the gap in with glue.? It's not perfect. The only way round that would have been to sand each plank along the edge to form a slight angle, and I couldn't be bothered to do that!! ;D
More later!? Julian. ;)
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Hi orby1,
Yep, it was a slip of the memory. The posting was aimed at you.
I've now changed the name on my other posting, to make it all the more confusing.
Regards Bob
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Evenin' all! ;)? All Easter Saturday I've been sat at work! how rubbish is that?? And to make it worse it's been quiet as a mouse and I could've been cracking on with this build-up thread. but for some reason the work computers won't find the Mayhem website!? Every other website on planet Earth works, but this one!? Ah well, I had a good book anyway!
Anyway, where were we?? Ah yes, these sidey, pokey-outey things (I'd be very grateful for any help with terminolgy, by the way).? This next shot shows the underneath of one side. You can see now why I started with the second plank in - I wanted to set it at an acute an angle as possible, so as to mean less fanning of planks further up, so I needed the bottom plank to have just a little contact with its two outer bulwarks.? I hope I'm explaining my confused thought processes in a way that makes sense....!
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum18_DSCF2217.jpg)
Here we have a shot of one side completed. From the birthday cards on show this can be dated to the end of February!?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum15_DSCF2216.jpg)
And here's one of the finished planking - both sides completed.? I gave the outer edge a rough sanding down just so we'd be able to get a better idea of the final shape of the beast.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum19_DSCF2218.jpg)
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I found some pictures of the real thing on the internet, and nicked them for inspiration. Here's one of her in the dock, justwaiting to unleash that insanely massive horsepower.
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And here are a few more I found of her on the water doing what she does best - which in one of them, according to legend, is 182 knots!!!! :o :o :o
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/boats_slomo1.jpeg)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/Slo-Mo-ShunIV.jpg)
And this is the record breaking one, from 1952 I think
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/boats_slomo4_1952_seattle_record.jpeg)
And here's someone else's model.? I have a feeling it's a slightly bigger scale than mine, but look at it go!!? Yipeee!
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/boats_slomodel_.jpeg)
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Moving along then, here's what we have when we flip her over.? It looks like a beetle on its back doesn't it?? Come on, it does a bit? !!? ? This was the point I'd really been looking forward to - chopping off the spine, and seeing what I had.? See how the instructions are laid out - there's no text, just a picture showing a hand saw and the boat!? It reminds me of the instructions you get with Lego - not that I play with Lego you understand, what I mean is, someone TOLD me it's like the instructions with Lego. Yes, that's it. :D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum20_DSCF2219.jpg)
Errr, it might be part of Billings' plan for this boat being in their 'Experienced Modeller' catagory, but the lack of text certainly makes things interesting.? On the other two Billings boats I did, there was only one side of A4 writing for the whole thing, which I found daunting enough as a beginner, but there being none at all really takes the biscuit in my opinion.? There are times I could use a little advice.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum21_DSCF2221.jpg)
It was at this point that I had my first major worry.? On one of my evenings sat looking at the boat I realised the keel was actually BENT. :o? I was pretty worried about it, as the whole thing has to be arrow straight for the bottom to fit on, and the fact that it isn't promised trouble.? I was pretty confused about how it had happened as well, as I had been so damned careful to avoid this very thing happening.? I'd started the planking of the hull in the middle and worked outwards evenly to try to keep it straight.? I think if I was going to advise anyone making this model after me, I'd tell them to put a plank along the outer edge of the top of the hull first, on each side, which would fix it straight.?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum22_DSCF2222.jpg)
Mind you, I thought that's what those longtitudinal struts were for....
Beats me ???
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I got on with chopping the keel off to see how bent things really were.? Here's where trusty Mr Leatherman came in very handy
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum23_DSCF2223.jpg)
The bottom of the Slo Mo is just a flat bit of wood. Were it made of seperate planks or sections, I'd have had less of a problem, but just one sheet of ply fits the entire bottom, side to side and front to back, and it has no tolerance for error.? I know this because the bits where it fits, fit very tightly and snugly indeed, just as they should do all over.
Ah well, I laid the bottom peice of ply onto the bottom of the boat, and this is what I saw - just as I feared, the bend in the boat means this peice just doesn't fit. Fortunately it's something I think I can do something with.?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum24_DSCF2224.jpg)
One option would have been to make a new bottom sheet, just go and buy some ply, make a template from cardboard, and cut a bent sheet of plywood, but I really REALLY didn't want a bent boat. Due to working shifts and having young family I have little spare time, so I'm going to spend at least 6 months building this boat, and I want the thing to be right.
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hi mate just a thought have you started on the top deck.? If not, and looking at your last photograph, it might be adviseable to coat the inside of the complete hull with a very thin layer of resin (just pure resin and hardener that is - no matting) and mix this resin so that it takes longer than 20 mins to go off in a warm climate.? This will allow the resin to soak into the timbers and fill any gaps in your planking and any mis-alignments in the joints of the frames.? Work the resin in well with a really stiff brush.
Aye
John E
Bluebird
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Hello John - you're saving me again!? Lovely to hear from you mate.? That would've been a very very good idea, I should have put some kind of sealer onto the insides of the boat.? Alas I didn't think of this, and the bottom went on with the inside of the boat just raw, untreated wood.? Hmmm, you've got me worried now!
I'm going to have to hope I can pull off a feat of veneer-application so neat and perfect that there are no leaks!? Also as you may recall I'm intending to treat this model to the sort of very shiney finish which needs lots of coats of varnish, so hopefully they will seal the boat very well.
Please keep these bits of advice coming, they're exactly the kind of help a rookie like me needs!? You live and learn, as they say, and in model boats I haven't done much living, so I haven't done a lot of learning either!!? Could you tell me a little more about this resin, what it is, how it works, what it's used for, etc. I'd be very grateful.
Here's how I got the bottom stuck on.? Obviously the top is planked over so you can't see in to check whether you're doing it right, you just have to sit and think about it for a while, plan the best way forward.? ?As you can see, I lack enough, grips, tools, and a workshop, however I make up for that with a plentiful supply of tinned tuna, tomatoes, vinegar Lloyd Grossman pasta sauce, and gaffer tape.? Ingenuity saved the day.? It was just a matter of finding anything about the right size, putting it on the boat, and then very tightly wrapping it round with gaffer.
I had to go outside for this part (into the snow!! :D), as the fumes from the glue tighten up my airways and I get very wheezy, and even have problems breathing at night!
I actually got to wrench the bottom into almost fitting, using gentle persuasion. The position that it set in isn't too bad at all.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum25_DSCF2226.jpg)
And after I'd finished I made a nice pasta bake for our tea!! ;D
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Hi ya again, its just standard lay-up resin - I purchase mine in small quantities from Halfords or any auto shop.? But, like me, I note you have breathing problems (Like me!) - so make sure you use it in a very well-ventilated area.
Also, if you have never used fibre glass resin before make sure you stick to the rules on the tin - meaning - make sure you get the resin-to-hardener mix correct.?
I know in my last post, I mentioned slowing the hardening process down, but, I took it for granted that you may have worked with resin before.
What you could do, where the outer curved piece of yourhull are you may be able to pour resin into that area and aggitate your boat, so that the resin swooches round inside - it will then creep into the gaps.? ?I didnt realise on this model that its actually veneered over the top.? ?Now then, after you have veneered it, and you want a high gloss, you can use an Epoxy Resin and this is totally different to the previously mentioned resin (which is a polyester based resin).? An Epoxy Resin, we will say, for the purpose of this thread and our use, is 100% - waterproof - Polyester Resin is not.? As I say, after you have finished veneering theoutside of your hull, two or three coats of Epoxy (just pure Epoxy Resin) and you can purchase this from any yacht chandlers shop and it comes in a variety of names? - I personally use a system called S.P.? Like I say, there are many others, but, TOUCH WOOD, I have had no problems with S.P Epoxy resins and it gives one very good finish.? Sealing Well.? ?To protect from UV deterioration of the Epoxy you could give it one coat of proper varnish over the top, which I doubt you would need.
Hope this is of some help.
Aye
John E
Bluebird.
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Many thanks John, let's hope this thread doesn't disappear like the last one and I lose all your advice a second time !! I am however now at a point where the boat is a totally sealed, hollow hull, with no way in or out. I just haven't got to that stage of catching up with my photo's yet! All will be revealed!
With the main piece of ply for the bottom now glued in place, I set about assembling the front of the bottom of this boat.? As you can see from this 1st picture, it's made up of panels, and as anyone who saw this thread the first time around may remember, the panels JUST DO NOT FIT! >:(
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum26_DSCF2241.jpg)
This picture shows how bad the fit actually is. The two pieces should align perfectly.? Look at it!?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum29_DSCF2248.jpg)
And worse, the two going sort of laterally across this picture should line up level with each other, with no step from one to the next.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum27_DSCF2242.jpg)
When I put the next panel on top, there should be no gap.? Now I'm no genius, but I think that if I made the boat like this, with a massive hole in the bottom, water might just get into the boat.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum28_DSCF2243.jpg)
To be honest at this point I was worrying that I'd done something drastically wrong. ?The rest of the boat, and the other two Billings boats I've done have fitted together very snugly, and very well, with barely any inaccuracies - so what's this all about? ?Have I done something wrong?
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Here's a handy hint-? if you don't already know this, a food steamer can work wonders for bending your bits of planking or panels.? You just have to remember to act all innocent if your family ask why the salmon fillets taste like wood glue...
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum30_DSCF2251.jpg)
Here I am building up that 'step' of mis-fitting wood using planks, tapered down at one end. Despite it looking like the grip is squashing them out of shape, they did make a nice smooth curve, and a good fit. :)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum31_DSCF2253.jpg)
Here's another anomaly with the (lack of) instructions... As you can see here they clearly show the front triangular piece going on first, with those wedge bits going on afterwards, somehow being fitted underneath the front triangular bit.? That looked daft to me, so I ignored it and put the wedge bits on first.? I also planked those long thin vertical bits too - in fact youi can see I'd already done them on the last set of pictures.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum32_DSCF2249.jpg)
Here you can clearly see how I built up those wedge shapes with the extra bits of planking.? See how it goes together now?? I can't see how Billings could make such a big error.
You can see I got the two side pieces on as well.? Again I used drilling and pinning to get them on and on for good.? Do you see the two little bits of ply just forward of them?? How it looks like those side bits carry on forwards with a little step down?? I had realised that the front triangualr piece had absolutely nothing to stick to on its outer edges, and Billings expected me to perform some sort of butt-join with the long side bits!! ????
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum33_DSCF2263.jpg)
Again, I thought that was daft - you'll see just how I got round it in the next thrilling installment...
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See?? This is what 5 minutes in the steamer can do to a bit of stiff plywood if you gaffer tape it up properly!? ;D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum35_DSCF2265.jpg)
And here we have that little extra bit I had to build on each side.? There should be a nice smooth line from the wedge bit going across, over the bit of vertical planking, and onto this little extra bit I made.? You can see there's a slight step, but I fixed that with a bit of filler.? It looks messy and rough and a bit of a bodge, but it did the job of providing somewhere for the triangular piece to glue its outer edge to, and as it would soon be hidden inside the boat, looking like a bodge didn't matter.
Besides, someone on the last forum told me a very important mantra to remember when doing a job like this - "IT'S NOT A BODGE - IT'S A PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO AN ENGINEERING PROBLEM!"
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum36_DSCF2266.jpg)
We still have quite a few pictures to go before we're up to date with where I actually am with the boat, but I've cracked on tonight and got further than I thought I would, so I reckon I could get up to date when I carry on tomorrow night!? Good news!? I have to go to bed now - up at 6:30 for work tomorrow! >:(
'Night all.
Julian.x
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Well, what a fun and joyous day I had at work, while the rest of you were sat scoffing Easter eggs all day! ;D
Let's press on.
I had a set-back.? All this faffing about with these panels had been quite fiddly and not especially easy to get right.? When I glued the triangular piece onto the bottom of the hull, I did so with the front apex of the triangle not touching the front apex of the boat, it just stuck out horizontally while the glue set.? Bad idea, Orby. :'( When I tried to move on and glue the rest of the triangle down, we got a massive bulge - and we all know how embarassing they can be...? Basically, it had been set in the wrong position.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum38_DSCF2313.jpg)
Look at this gap - it's about 2mm-3mm, full of nasty looking glue, and it looks crap.? It's not good enough, and the whole front triangular piece had to come off and be started again.? All that showing off about my technique with the steamer came to nothing!! ;D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum39_DSCF2314.jpg)
Luckily a very helpful fella called 'Leadfoot' on the other forum had suggested that I solve the problem of these ill-fitting panels by making templates from cardboard and then cutting my own from thin ply, so I'd already got a sheet of 2mm ply handy to make another triangular front piece.? It took 2 minutes, easy as pie.? Unfortunately, while pulling the old piece off, I also brought half the boat with it!! My little extra support-ey bits, my extra fill-in bits from on top of those wedges, all came off and had to be re-built.? All wasted time...
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Here's another technique I've learned through necessity - this damned boat has more curves than Angeline Jolie (I must name-check my dad for that similie), and no matter where you need to get a grip or some clamps on it, you can't.? I've found I've had to superglue some bits of scrap wood onto the hull for the clamps to get a purchase on, then when the glue has set, I remove the clamps, cut the scraps off, and hope they don't leave a mark.
It seems a bit severe but most of the boat at this point will be covered in veneer so marking the top won't matter, and as for the bottom - errrm, it might be painted yet, I'm not sure.? I'd like to varnish it and leave the wood showing, but it depends how much I "xxxxx" it up! :D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum40_DSCF2315.jpg)
By the way, you can see here the new bottom triangle going on, it's there on the left. The boat is tipped up on one side.
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At this point I'd stopped shilly-shallying around with this thing, and was determinded to show it who was boss.? My dad had bought me a model drill for xmas, and with that and a few 0.6mm pins, I stuck the new front trianglular piece down for good. This row of pins across the middle happened first actually, making very very sure it was in exactly the right place this time...
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum41_DSCF2336.jpg)
It was glued wherever it came into contact with anything else, and pinned as well. Across the middle, and across the back edge.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum42_DSCF2337.jpg)
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I like to try and keep models as neat as possible, less pins on show, no dried glue bulging out anywhere, etc.? I didn't want to do any pinning down, but I saw these pictures (below) and realised pins can be used as part of the design of the finish of the boat.? OK so this Ferarri thing is a beautiful piece of work and pretty much out of my league, but the pins do add something to it, and my adversity to them dropped.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum_ferrari.jpg)
Just look at this thing - it's a work of art!? It's from www.modelshipmaster.com
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum_Ferrari2.jpg)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum_%20Ferrari3.jpg)
I'm not suggesting for a minute that my pins on the Slo Mo look even a tenth as good as the ones on this model, but I just realised thanks to this boat, that they aren't a bad thing.
This model was also one I used on the other forum to illustrate the finish I want to get for my model.? I love that high gloss shine! :)
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Back to the build...
This is where Leadfoot's advice about cutting templates really came in handy. The supplied pieces really were a rubbish fit, and I'd been tempted even to try and plank the area where these pieces went!? It would've been an absolute frightmare, as this area bends round the boat, widens, twists and thins down to nothing at one end ( :o :o) but I was feeling confident with my planking, and willing to give it a go.? That was the plan until the template idea was given to me.? A 90p sheet of 2mm ply saved me hours of headache slogging my way through Planking Hell...!? Also thanks to Bluebird for the hint about scoring the back of the piece to be bent - cheers Cap'n!
This pic shows the side piece going on.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum43_DSCF2338.jpg)
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As a slight distraction (read 'relief'! ;D), I'll post a couple of pics of my last build, the Billings Phantom, which I took recently.? They are slightly dark as I had set the shutter to a fast speed to capture the water and 'freeze the action' !!
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum_phantom4_DSCF2411.jpg)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum_phantom5_DSCF2414.jpg)
Anyway, what do you think?? There's a Graupner Speed 400 motor in her now, as I had overheated two standard ones and fancied a little more speed? You can see from the angle she sits at in the water that I got what I wanted! :D? BTW the front seat is missing because I had to cut a hole in the bottom of the seating area to let cool air in and keep the motor cool, and if the seat is in place it gets in the way of the airflow! Remember - "It's not a bodge, it's a practical solution to an engineering problem!"
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This next pic shows the side piece fitted on one side - or almost fitted anyway.? You can see from this shot how ill-fitting that flat piece was.? I should've cut my own template for that one, as well.? I don't know why I didn't, maybe I was trusting myself to sort out any gaps with filler.? Grrrrrr! >:(
I cut the template for the side piece slightly big on the top edge so I could just sand it down.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum44_DSCF2342.jpg)
Sorry about the white-out in the upper half of this pic, the sun was glaring in. You can still see though the solution I came up with to solve a big problem I was having glueing these side pieces in place.? You can glue them to the bulwarks, but where there is no framework as such to stick them to, it seems that you just have to glue the raw edge of the side piece to the planking going over the top of the boat.? Quite a lot harder than it sounds, and quite unlikely to work very well, too.? Anyway I just decided to glue scraps of planking to the underside of that top planking, as something to stick the side piece to - something it could mate up to.? I show this as some future help to anyone else making this model and hitting the same snags I did! ;)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum45_DSCF2415.jpg)
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Right!! With these 2 pics, we're now up to date!! :)? 3 nights work, and I'm done!? Bluebird, now you can see why it was too late to pour some resin in and seal the inside of the boat!? It's completely sealed, a hollow hull with no holes anywhere!? Quite odd really when you think about it.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum46_DSCF2418.jpg)
The next stage appears to be cutting the hole in the top of the hull, then I start the application of the veneer.? Although I really ought to look at the instructions...? I'm sort of looking forward to this bit and dreading it at the same time. It's when I finally get to see how the boat will look when it's done, and the oppertunity I get to really make the most of how good this model could look if veneered and varnished well.? It's make or break time.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum47_DSCF2422.jpg)
I'm lucky I guess in that the Phantom had exactly the same sort of veneer on her hull, so I have had experience of it (see photo)....
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum16_DSCF1377.jpg)
.... But this hull is a bit more tricky than that one.? It has more curves, more ins, more outs.? I'm particularly (not) looking forward to seeing how the sides will turn out, where they start to bend underneath the hull at the back end. Wish me luck!!!!
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Ok, I decided to break with tradition and start looking properly at the instructions.? Apparently the next thing I had to do was cut a big hole in the top.? There were no dimensions given on the instructions as to where to cut the hole or how big to make it, so we had to resort to actually looking at the plans!? Blimey, they don't make it easy for you, do they? :D?
I worked out that the easiest way to mark out would be to have a starting point for all measurements, to I chose to draw a line across the hull from where the bulbous side bits come in, then find the centre of that line, and that would be my starting point.
Thing is....... Does this line look 'straight' to you?? Is it perpendicular to the planks? ???? I honestly can't tell if it's ok, or if there's some sort of optical illusion going on, or if, somehow, it's wonky!
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum49_DSCF2424.jpg)
For the life of me I can't work it out - how could it be wonky? The back edge of the sticky-outy bit is one of the frame pieces, one of the 'bulkheads', which would have been nigh-on impossible to put on wrong.? Please comment and tell me it looks fine to you and there's just something wrong with my eyes... ::)
I spent a long time very carefully measuring out on the plans, and marking out onto the top of the hull where I was supposed to cut.? Eventually I had this :
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum48_DSCF2423.jpg)
All I could think of to do was cut well inside the lines so I could just cut/sand the hole bigger when I knew exactly how big it was meant to be.
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NO GOING BACK NOW!!!
After getting busy with the leatherman again, we had this - as we say in God's Wonderful County of Yorkshire - "a whackin' gret 'oyle".? Now I see how big this hole is, I see I can get inside the boat easier than I thought I would be able to, so I'm going to get some of this here resin stuff that Bluebird was on about, and try and coat as much of the inside as possible.? I can also dob the odd bit of glue inside and feel a bit better that the bottom is well and truly stuck down.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum50_DSCF2425.jpg)
Cutting this hole was horrible!? I've spent 4 months so far on this thing and tried to hard to do it well and neatly - and here I was suddenly chopping big holes in it with a big rough saw on a penknife.? All I could think of was that I was doing it in the wrong place, or I was cutting it too big and ruining the whole thing... Eeek! :o
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Hi again orby1,
Bob here, southern boy gone north. Definately the best direction.(north that is)
Best model boat club is up here!!!
If you are going to epoxy resin the inside of the hull, then there is no need to glue as well. All my wooden models are held together with epoxy resin. I use cyno to hold planks to frames or side skins to frames, and then just resin everything in sight, both inside and out. I have IC powered craft as well as fast electric and sailing boats all constructed this way.
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Hi Bob,
Ok, I didn't know that the resin did a good job of gluing as well - as I said before, I haven't used this resin before.
I rang my model shop about "lay up resin" (as you called it) today and they didn't know what I was on about, I may go down to one of the boat builders' yards nearby and see if they have some. I notice though that you just mentioned using 'epoxy resin' on the inside of the hull. I thought that epoxy resin was the stuff which went on the outside of the boat and got polished up! You've got me all ??? now!! :D
I'm sorry mate, could you please explain again for this relative beginner, which resin I need for which job, & what each one is called exactly? I'd be grateful, then we could move on!
Thanks ever so much for your advice.
By the way, whereabouts are you in the North? I hear there's a very good club in Doncaster.
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Orby,
Go to your local Halfords - they will have resin in a yellow can in the body repair section, along with P38 filler , wet & dry paper and lots of other goodies! That is all you need for the inside.
Barrie
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Hi orby1,
I just typed you a long screed about epoxy resins, hit the wrong button and it's all gone.
I have to go out now, so do not have time to re do it.
If you've not had any other replys to your last queery by the time I get home, I'll do it again.
As I understand it the Halfords resin is polyester not epoxy resin, but they may have a new one I have not seen.
Regards Bob.
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Hi orby1,
Laying up resin is used when building a glass hull, to bond the layers of cloth together.
This can be polyester or epoxy, but epoxy is considered the best as it is more flexible.
The epoxy resins we use in our hobby, fall into three main catagories. quick med and slow setting.
5 minute for tacking jobs. is normally said to be not as strong or as water proof. 30 minute, which gives more time to get things where they should be before the resin hardens. Then there is the 12 hour version, which is used to get the best finish, also when using a light weight cloth to give strength to the hull.
I use zpoxy available from model shops. Other epoxy systems are available under different names. I have found that some others suffer from a problem called waxing, which stops further coats from sticking, and causes puddles to form in the finish. This can be sanded away, so could lead to a better finish as you have no option but to sand it well back. This can become really complex subject, but most of us get by with the minium.
I'm surprised that no one else came back while I was out, so I hope this will be of some help to you.
Regards Bob.
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Hi there Bob
I looked at your posting yesterday and came to the conclusion 'too many cooks spoil the resin' so thought it would be nice if you explained between the different resins which you have done well.?
The only thing I could add is where some people use matting on the inside of the hull as well as resin, some of us just use pure resin to coat the inside of the hull to seal the inside.
Aye
John E
Bluebird
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Fellas,
Thanks for your help and patience! I have to learn somehow, and you're really helping me out. I'm sure my dad knows all about this resin malarkey as he's done fibreglass hulls aplenty, but he's up in Yorkshire, so he can't help me. Had I known the resin was the stuff you glue fibreglass layers down with I think I may have felt more confident going and buying some. Anyway I just rang the model shop (Wycombe Models, High Wycombe) down the road and they have polyester and epoxy resins, so I'm off down there now.
I just got up after working nights last night though, so I may have a cuppa first and stare out of the window for 10 minutes!
Thanks again for your patience!
Julian. ;)
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Okey dokey.
Like Andy on the 'Hull Finish' thread, I have come home with some SP 113 resin, from Ripmax. I had no idea how much I would need so I bought a nice big jar! I'm sure I'll need it again sometime anyway so it won't go to waste. It's annoying though that the place I feel like I need to get this stuff most is right down inside the bow end of the boat where those ill-fitting panels made water-tightness less likely - and that's exactly the area I can hardly get to through the hole in the top!
Never mind, I'll have fun and try my best - we'll be fine.
Thanks again everyone. :)
I was asking about motors while I was in the shop. I've decided to go for electric rather than IC as some places don't allow IC boats to run, plus they're expensive, and I've heard they're sometimes messy. On the other forum some kind gent advised I get a 'speed 700' motor, so I looked at those and they look fine (20,000 RPM looks fine enough for me!!! :o). However Richard, the helpful guy in the shop said I should ask you lot about brushless motors, as this set-up wouldn't have a very long run time.
I know I'm getting ahead of myself here as I still have a way to go before I need to fit the motor - but what can you tell me about brushless motors? Apparently they're a bit more expensive, but a lot smaller & lighter (which leaves more weight & room for batteries) and more efficient too. We briefly looked at one potential set-up which would have had the motor doing 35,000 RPM !!! That ought to do it! I was grinning like a Cheshire cat!
Mentioning this now will give me loads of time to hear everyone's advice and opinions before I go out shopping and ignore everyone, just buying the shiniest one.!!! ;D
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Hi orby1
One other tip I can tell you about, is the fact that it is almost impossible to remove all the resin from the brush after use, so they go hard.
The system I use, is to remove as much resin from the brush as soon as I finish, using old news paper, and do not wait to do this at a later time. (there won't be one) And then qive it a quick clean in meths. Dry again and then drop it in a jar with about an inch of meths in the bottom, and then fit back the screw lid. I have three different size brushes in my jar, which have been in use for the last four years. I avoid using cellulose thinners in the jar, as over time it attacks both the bristles and the paint on the handle.
Also in hard to get at areas, I just thin down the resin and slop it around inside the hull.
One other really good tip, is to have at least three wooden models on the go at the same time, so when you mix too much resin etc. you can use up the spare on another boat, so no waste. (that's my excuse any way)
Regards Bob
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Don't entirely agree with this. Best way I've found is to clean brushes really thoroughly in two or three lots of clean thinners, or preferably acetone. You're right that this attacks the bristle adhesive, but if you give the brush a really good acetone clean after use then let it dry out, I've not experienced any problems. All meths would do is keep the brush moist, it won't stop epoxy curing in the bristles, just slow down the process. Brushes sold for fibreglass work aren't attacked by acetone or thinners, but ordinary paint brushes are, they use a different adhesive.
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Orby 1, If I remember right hasn't a gent called Ernie Lazenby who writes articles in marine modelling. I am sure he has built this model and he does play with motor set ups. Go to Here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/edward.matthews/ddmbc.htm) Ernie has his model in the gallery and you may find a contact to send him an email. I have contacted Enrie in the past and found him to be very helpfull
Riggers
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Hi again,
Ernie did build a version of this boat, but it was the styrene hull version, unless he built two.
I can confirm it is fitted with a brushless motor and went very well. There again, most of his boats do.
Bob
P.S. I just had a look at the members list, and unless he has changed his forum name he is not on this forum YET
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Riggers,
Cheers, I just emailed Ernie, let's wait and see if he has anythihg to say about motors. I can confirm that his Slo Mo is the 1:8 scale version though, a little bigger than mine (in fact I think that's a photo of his version on page1 of this thread!), but he should still be a valuable source of info and help.
Splodger and Bob - thanks fellas, oh for the joys of a workshop where I could leave things like pots of meths and acetone around!! I live in a small flat and have to tidy everything out of a corner of the lounge to build my boat, then tidy it all away again afterwards to make room for 'everyday stuff'! And knowing me, my 2yr old would find the pot and throw it on the floor or drink it or something!! ::) Luckily I'm saved from brush-cleaning hassles by the model shop throwing in a set of cheap disposable epoxy brushes - 1.45 for 6.
And speaking of epoxy, it's time I got off my backside and got this thing done. More pics later if I get chance!
All the best, Julian.
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Hi,
Don't go to mad with high revs brushless or you will never swing a large
enough prop to push the boat.
You need something like a Hacker 50l-12 (2013revpervolt)and 12cells,
this will run a 2blade 40-42 and be quick.
Also this will keep the size ( amps) off e.s.c down, and be a reasonable cost.
Andy
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Orby,
The current (May) MMI has pics of Ernie's boats and one of the real thing. Full article on Water Sped Record attempts. Will be on sale next week I think - got my subscription copy yesterday.
Barrie
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Hi Orby1,
You could also try Astec (http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/) They sell brushless motors and I have used them in the past, I had a question which was answered straight away.
Riggers
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I have registered on the forum so ask away on anything to do with this type of boat.
Ernie Lazenby
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welcome aboard Ernie.
Marc
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Ayup fellas,
Seems like a while since I last posted (4 days! :D) - fortunately I've got away from the land of fizzy lager up to my parents' in Barnsley where many boat-related shenanegans are going on. My dad's there working on his Model Slipway 'Maggie', whilst I beaver away putting the veneer on the Slo Mo. I've got a full day tomorrow to get cracking on her so you can expect a report when I get home and upload my photos. There should have been some major progress. It's going on ok so far, but proving to be 'interesting' towards the stern where the sides of the boat fold underneath. You'll see in a few days.
Model Slipway is only 5 miles from my dad's house so we have to call round for a drool, plus my dad's Billings Smit Nederland has still never got her bottom wet 2 months after completion, so I'm demanding we go and take her for a spin. This may eat into precious building time, but it has to be done.
Ernie - I bought MMI today and am really chuffed to have you make yourself available to me to pick your brains - if anyone knows anything about this thing I'm trying to build, then it's you. You may find your knowledge is definately required in a while when I get onto motors. Thanks a lot for your time and attention! ;)
More later, peeps.
Julian.
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Ok then, here we go.? Here's how we were a few days ago, working away to trying to get the veneer onto the Slo Mo.? It's exactly the same stuff as was used on my Billings' Phantom, my last build, so at least I'm familiar with the stuff.? I used a mixture of wood glue, cyano and elbow grease to get it on straight.? As you can see here, we were just about to get to the tricky bit where it bends under the stern.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum51_DSCF2478.jpg)
What I found to be the hardest thing about it last time was trying to get it on flat.? When you put glue on of any kind, the strips begins to curve, so the edges of each strip bend upwards away from the boat.? A right pain!? ?My dad struggled badly with this on his Phantom and he now has ridges all along the sides of the boat - not good - and the last thing I wanted to happen here.? ?Anyway here's a pic of the beginning of the process with my dad's Model Slipway 'Maggie' just starting to take shape in the background.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum52_DSCF2477.jpg)
I threatened to take my dad out to get his Smit Nederland wet, and it had to be done.? Unfortunately the wind was up and the water was pretty choppy to say the least!? Our Phantoms were getting water over the decks, so we brought them back in sharpish.? The Smit was going to be fine though, it's a lot bigger, and made of sterner stuff.? Here she is taking to the water for her maiden voyage on the high seas of Manvers Pond, South Yorkshire.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum56_DSCF2485.jpg)
As you can see, it was quite choppy!? Funny how a big hefty metre-long boat can look so small when it's being rocked about on the waves.? Still she handled really well, especially considering the amount of water which was blown over her decks and into the bottom of the hull!!!! ;D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum57_DSCF2486.jpg)
I did get more done and have a few more pics to post, but I've run out of time today. I need to ask more advice too....
Julian.x
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Hi orby1
Don't try this on your model, as it is just a guess. Others may know better. If you were to try spraying a fine water mist on the outer surface of the veneer, this may stop the the curling up problem you mentioned. I know that when using tongue and groove timber, the rear surface should be sealed before it is attached to battens etc, as this prevents the boards curling afterwards. The theory as I understand it, is that the wood expands across the grain when it gets damp, (glue etc.) but as the outer surface is dry it does not. Hence the curl.
Regards Bob
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Thanks Bob, that's yet another little hint I can use to make my life easier.? I'll try the water spray trick and report back.? The theory of it makes sense, I'm sure it should work.
Here's a pic of the boat after I'd done both sides in veneer. Just for interest I put it in shot with my dad's Smit, and our Phantom river cruisers. You can also see a Calder Craft 'Clyde Pilots' as well, an old build of my dad's.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum58_DSCF2481.jpg)
A closer shot of the veneer once it's on. I hadn't let it set enough to properly sand the edges down at this point - hence the slightly unfinished look.? I was please with the end result of the area towards the stern where the sides fold underneath though - my dad's Dremel came in handy at just finely whizzing the unwanted veneer off.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum59_DSCF2483.jpg)
One problem I'd had was that on mistakenly lifting the boat by the hole in the top, the planking on the top of the deck was very bendy and I feared I might pull the planks apart very easily when working on the boat.? It was simply because there was a frame inside the boat just behind the front of the hole which had been cut through, so there was nothing supporting the planks on top until the next frame about 10cm further forwards.
My solution to this was to use a scrap peice of 4mm ply from the box and glue it to the underside of the top of the boat just forward of the hole, side to side.? I used a peice from where the frames had been cut out, so it had a curve almost exactly the same as that of the top of the boat.? Once this set, the top of the boat was a lot stronger and I felt a bit more confident about sticking veneer onto it.
I had to do exactly the same thing at the back of the hole inthe top as well.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum60_DSCF2491.jpg)
I can only hope that these supporting peices don't "xxxxx" something up further along in the build....
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Here we have the problem I mentioned asking advice about.? I'm not ready to solve it just yet but as I'm working on the veneer all over the hull, hopefully you lot can be taking a look and offering a helpful word or two...
Take a look at the photo below.? I've uploaded it to the site as a larger version so you can see it clearly - it shows the instructions for the next bit I have to do after this veneer.? There's no text in the instructions, just this drawing.? My questions are these:? Just what the heck is this thing I'm meant to stick on the boat, and where do I stick it?
It doesn't look like it goes actually INSIDE the hull, but you can see from pictures of the finished model, there's nothing like this on the outside either.? It definately ISN"T the engine cover, as that's a seperate and easily indentifyable vac-formed peice of plastic. HELP!!! :D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/forum61_DSCF2522.jpg)
After a long search I found this peice of vac-formed plastic which I believe I have to cut in half lengthways (there's a guide line on it), which forms the peice concerned.? Agreed?
It is about the right length to go from the front of the hole to that notch, so it's obviously meant to go there somehow.? Perhaps Ernie Lazenby can help!? Just what is it, and where does it go?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/forum62_DSCF2523.jpg)
Finally here's a shot of the top veneers going on.? The quality of veneer laying on the top of the boat has to be first rate as it will obviously be on show all the time. It's tricky as the slightest error in laying it down will leave a gap somewhere, even the smallest of which will be very visible.? That seam down the middle has to be bang on.? As you can see I've opted for sticking a plank down the middle to butt the veneers up against, this will hopefully ensure I get a straight line.? This plank can obviously come off later when I start the other side.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/forum63_DSCF2524.jpg)
Anyhow, this is what I'm going to be getting on with whilst I leave you with the problem of the 'funny white thing'. Come on fellas, don't let me down! ;D
More later - Julian.
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;D Well hello there
Not too sure about your 'plastic box' problem - however,
deck veneering - check if you can all photographs of the full life size vessel - because, normally down the centre of any deck there is a 'king plank' which you have represented with your white piece of wood. You could replace that white strip of wood with a strip of veneer, this would be left on. As you are doing, the other veneers would butt up to this at a 45 degree angle.
Hope this gives you some thought.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Hiya John, nice to hear from you again. ;)
About the deck veneering, I took your advice and had a good 'google around' for more pictures - I couldn't find any which showed a king plank.? Below is a pic of the Slo Mo Shun V (mine is the IV) which gives a good view of the deck planking, and below that is a shot of the finished Billings' model.? As you can see it also shows no king plank.? I think I'm safe in carrying on planking as I am doing
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum64_slomo1.jpg)
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum65_slomoshun.jpg)
On both these pics there's a nice smooth 90 degree 'V' shaped seam running down her top deck. Can anyone else shed any light on this 'king plank' idea? I don't want to say you're wrong John as pictures of the version of the real Slo Mo I have pictures of don't show the top too well. Thanks for the advice. AGAIN! ;D
Julian.
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Too late for any 'king planks' now John! :D? I hope I've not bogged it up - I don't think I have.
Here's the little bit I've done today - just a few more planks of veneer onto the bow.? I've had all day to myself to play with it but have had loads of other rubbish to do instead. ::)
Anyway as can be seen we have a nice straight line to butt the other peices up against.? Luckily for me my plan worked.? I'll tell you something too - John's trick with spraying the veneers worked brilliantly.? They curved up the other way so when they were put down against the boat, the edges were touching first - perfect.? An added bonus was that the water softened the strips and made them more pliable too. I'm very pleased with it as it's all gone on nice and flat, nice and even. No gaps.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum66_DSCF2533.jpg)
Right I'm off. No more boats for a few days - I have shifts to do at work, and families to play with!? Hopefully when I come back to the boat next week, we'll have some interesting ideas about what that white plastic thing is.? I've emailed Ernie Lazenby about it, I hope he has some clue!
Have fun, people.
Julian.
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Hi orby1,
Looking at the pictures above, it looks like the plastic pieces are the exhaust covers.
Bob
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Hi orby1,
Looking at the pictures above, it looks like the plastic pieces are the exhaust covers.
Bob
Rightio Bob, I think I see what you're getting at - the black tubes are obviously the exhaust 'pipes' - you can see them on the real thing too, but there's no sign of anything like these plastic bits on the real thing, and looking at the picture of the finished model above, could these covers be underneath the pipes? I just can't see them. You obviously can, mate - how do you see them fitting to my model?
It looks as though the upper outer edge of the plastic bit (where the '24' and the arrow point to on the drawing) is glued to the underside of the edge of the hole.... I think! ??? But does the sloped end face fore or aft? The persepctive on the drawing isn't very good.
Thanks though Bob, we may be onto something... ;)
Julian.
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Hi orby1,
Can't worry about spelling so here goes.
If you look at the full size photo of Slo Mo V the bow end of the manifolds or as I belive the Americans call them Headers slope down towards the stern, and the rear ends then slope back up again.
The red engine cover is narrower than the extreme? outside edges of the manifolds which would stick out and be on show.If you look at your picture of Slo Mo IV you can see that the rear of the exhaust pipe is sticking up, slopes down towards the bow and then goes up again, but changes shape. The engine cover is smaller than the hole in the deck, and there is a small black section that fills the gap. The pieces you are concerned about, at least to me, look like they sit against the side of the engine cover and the black piece of flat deck/engine cover.
Hope that makes sence.
With regard to the deck, and if it should have a king plank. I've had two full size hydros, which were the same shape as Slo Mo, although smaller outboard powered boats. The bow deck was formed with full sheets of ply which just butted together down the centre line.
I don't? remember techinical terms too well, but I'm not sure that the term king plank means that it has to be on show. So there fore, the sheets of ply were probably fixed to the king plank which was underneath.
The above are only my thoughts on the matter, and I am not saying that anyone else is wrong. (it's normally me)
Regards Bob
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Hi,
have a look at my Pen Duick pics in 'my builds' that shows the king plank concept clearly, in this case mahogony next to lime planks.
Ian
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Boatmadman - thanks for the tip - yes your Pen Duick is absolutely beautiful, the work you've done on that decking is gorgeous, I like how your king plank seems staggered by the lime planks being cut square at the end. Was the original like that? It's very interesting. Scratch building is something I'd like to do one day but I don't think I have the skills as yet.
Bob, yes, I can see what you're on about, how the exhaust pipes are bent and go up and down - the engine cover is narrower than the exhausts and also than the hole the engine sits in. I thiink where my problem lies is the black bits on the model between the engine cover and the wooden body. I'm positive these black areas must be the plastic mystery shapes I'm confused about - they must be. I just can't see how they'd actually go on. If they were to go like I said earlier, with the upper edge glued to the underside of the edge of the hole, that would be correct in that the exhaust pipes would have room to bend downwards, but I don't think that would be right, as any water coming over the boat would go straight into these holes and onto the engine. And they're big holes. Billings wouldn't have designed it like that, would they?
It looks from the model like the black areas are level with the top of the hull (so the engine cover sits on top) but somehow the exhaust pipes go down 'into' them and up and out again at the back.
I can see myself making my own solution to this in the end!!! ;D
Many thanks fellas, we'll get there in the end.
Julian.x
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Hi.
Not been able to do very much to the boat for a while, although I have had a few more sugestions about what the white things are.? I've been lucky enough to have Ernie Lazenby reply to my emails, and amongst other things he helped me with, he thought the white bits could be to house the batteries.? I'm not convinced, as they'd be too flimsy to hold them once they're cut out of the sheet, and only 'L' section in profile anyway so the batts would fall out.
We've been briefly discussing motors and propulsion systems.? Apparently the best way to get this thing really moving would be to use a method called 'Surface Drive', which I admit I hadn't heard of before yesterday.? It would involve dropping the Billings-supplied prop and prop-shaft, which I really have no problem with, and using a brushless motor.? He's certainly full of interesting information, like that the real Slo Mo Shun was not planked at all but covered with strips of marine grade ply.? Hey I was right about the king planks too! ;D
Anyway - I did a little reasearch on surface drive - take a look here:? http://powerandmotoryacht.com/features/0604surfacedrives/
and here:? ? http://www.nava.ca/power.htm
Here's a little but I cut from one of the links to give you a quick idea if you don't fancy getting right into it....
At first glance, a surface-drive system doesn?t look like any propulsion technology you?ve seen. It has a short shaft off the transom and most closely resembles a stern drive. But unlike the stern drive, it doesn?t hang down, the shaft shoots straight back. In fact, when a boat is underway, almost the entire drive unit is out of the water. In addition, the propeller on a surface-drive unit is different (see ?Piercing Props,? this story). It has to be designed?unlike a completely submerged straight-inboard or stern-drive system?to work in both air and water. When running at high speed, only about 40 to 50 percent of a surface prop is in the water.
If anyone knows of any links explaining surface drive in terms mere land-lubbers like me can understand, let me know... ;D
I have had a little time to put some more veneers on.? Here's where we're up to.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum67_DSCF2544.jpg)
I'm getting there slowly but surely. :)
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It's hard for me to get very long to build my boat, but I'm gradually getting there.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/forum68_DSCF2545.jpg)
Slowly coming along now. ;)
Julian.
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Finally got a day to myself!
I've got problems though.? All along I've known that one the most important things about this build was to get the mahogany veneer right, as it was going to be a really nice feature of it.? If it ended up looking crap, it would ruin the whole thing.? Well, it would for me, anyway.
Anyway, what I discovered a couple of weeks ago was that the veneer I put on the front of the boat had dried and left a tiny gap between each strip.? I was very very careful not to leave one when I was sticking it on, so the only thing I can think to explain it is this:
Do you recall the problem of the strips curling away from the boat at the edges due to being wet on one side and expanding? To cure that I sprayed the other side with water mist to make the strip lay flat, as it expanded the same rate on either side.? Now what I think happened is that as the strip dried, it shrunk again, leaving the gaps.? They're not even 1mm across, but they're there, and they look RUBBISH.?
But that isn't the main problem I have, the gaps can be filled with dark filler as a last resort and hopefully they won't be too noticable.
The problem is that each strip down the port side of the boat has to line up with the one that it touches on that central seam which I've already stuck down on the starboard side.? The edges of the strips should make a nice even line of 'V's up the middle of the boat.? So now if I want to make these strips line up to make the 'V's, I have to leave the same crappy looking gaps between them. The alternative is to have the port side strips meeting each other properly side by side but not lining up at all with the ones on the starboard side - thus throwing the 'V's right out.?
Which would look worse?? ?>:(
And I still don't know what those bloody white things are supposed to be.? ???
I need a beer.? That's it - I'm off to the pub later to cry into my pint. :'(
Here's a picture of what I discovered as I worked my way forwards again with the veneer up the other side.? It didn't line up at all!? To make the proper 'V' shape I had to leave this gap between two strips of about 4-5mm!
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum69_DSCF2630.jpg)
"xxxxx".
.
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Right, I think I've averted the disaster I thought this was going to be, by a mixture of luck, wiggling things about, and desperation, I've got the strips to line up to make the 'V's up the front, AND not have a big gap.? The answer was staring me in the face all the time, but you know how it is - sometime you just have to look at things another way.
Take a look...
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum70_DSCF2642.jpg)
I've angled the strip (the 3rd one forward of the cockpit hole) backwards at a sharper angle, so as to simply widen the end (the face which meets the middle).? Of course this has meant chopping it towards to bottom to make it more a triangle than a rectangle, but I'm banking on there being too much going on with go-faster stripes and decals for it to be very noticable on the finished model.? See how at the bottom it's only about 15mm wide?? It'll have to do.
(Ha ha ha! I can't use the word? c o c k p i t? without it being censored!!! ;D)
So now I have just a few more strips to apply and then (thank God) I"ll be onto the next bit!
It's not been going so well today really. You know when you have those days when you should really just stop work, because nothing quite goes right?? You're all fingers and thumbs?? Even the strips I've put on now have got slight gaps between them in places despite me trying desperately to avoid them, and despite not being sprayed with water first.? Some of the planks I used were slightly wonky somehow, they may have been damaged in transit or something, and I didn't notice until I was holding them down for the glue to set and wondering why there was a gap for a couple of cm here or there.
It's very disappointing, but I just hope I'll be able to find some dark filler to fill the gaps, and maybe they won't look so bad in the end.
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Hi,
Its maybe too late now,but did you consider planing a v slight angle on the edge of each plank so you had a full butt join to glue on planks that follow the curve of the hull?,
I did this on a scratch built riva - see pics on this forum, and it hasnt caused a problem. I didnt spray the planks either - didnt know about that!
Ian
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just remembered another answer to the 'space between planks' problem.
Get a piece of plank, plane it into a wedge shape and glue it into the gap between planks,this seals the planking and is all but invisible, as you have used the same wood. I did this on my riva, and only I can see where it is.
ian
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Hi, Boatmadman,
Thanks for the tips!? At the moment, the hull is finally finished, veneer-wise, so thank the lord all that faffing about is over with!! ;D? ?I suppose it's something that anyone who's done diagonal planking onto a hull will be familiar with, but I didn't expect to have to shape a curve into a plank every now and then to avoid gaps.? Bluebird on here has shown me how to do that properly in the 'hints & tips' section.? Thanks again, John!! ;)
Anyway as I said, the veneering is now done.? What gaps there are are very thin - so much so that the only way to sort them out was to stain some filler and use that.? I considered putting a strip of veneer on its side and slotting that into the gaps, but some of them are only a couple of cm long at most, and very narrow - not even 1mm.? In fact they only show up at all because the wood beneath them is so light and the mahogany is dark. It would've looked messy too.
Right, moving on!? Next job is to sand the veneers all nice and smooth ready for a little painting.
(Actually, the next jobs are to do a mega-tidy on our flat ready for potential buyers to view it, then cook dinner, then cut out a new piece of carpet for our caravan, then drive to the caravan and fit the damn thing, then go off and do 4 nightshifts!? Oh joy!)
Here's a shot of where I'm gonna have to leave it for a few days.?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum71_DSCF2643.jpg)
I've part-sanded just that upper small area down to see how the filler looks. Apologies about how small the picture is, you can't really see with an image this size but it looks absolutely fine close up.? It should tidy up very nicely (he says, crossing fingers).
.
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Hi,
I find that wiping down with white spirit after a sanding gives you a good indication of how it will finally look, and often brings out any imperfections that need dealing with
Ian
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Nice one Ian, thanks very much. I had just used a damp rag on the pic above.
Honestly - where would I be without you lot??? ;D
Julian.x
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you need to avoid water on bare wood, it swells the grain!
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you need to avoid water on bare wood, it swells the grain!
You're telling me!!!!? ;D
I wish you'd told me this when reply 52 came in!! :D
Julian.
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I had a bit of a Eureka moment today! It's about time I was happy with how this thing was going for a change - lately I've felt like I've been dragging the build along, not really enjoying it like I should.? Anyway, I finally worked out how these bl***y white things go!!!! YIPEEE!
They aren't exhaust covers, manifold covers, or anything in fact that the real boat should have - they're purely for the model, and just a way of holding the big red engine cover on.? ::) ::) ::)
Have a look - I got busy with the Dremel this morning and worked the hole in the top outwards so it was the right size, not just a rough cut. To find out exactly how big it should be, I made the wooden bottom of the engine cover in the hope that it might somehow help me get an exact measurement for the hole.? Then I cut out the bluddy white things (very carefully, I hate working with plastic!), and this is what I came up with.......
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum72_DSCF2666.jpg)
Here's what she looks like with both bluddy white things (BWT's from now on) in place and the bottom bit of the engine cover.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum73_DSCF2665.jpg)
I kept the hole too small, and gradually sanded outwards until I got a nice tight fit for what I suppose will be a 'lid' over the motor. The edges of the BWT's are straight and don't want to bend to follow the curve of the hull, but we'll have to work on that as we go along. It's not clear whether the BWT's stick to the bottom of the engine cover and lift out with it, or whether they stick to the hull and the engine cover lifts away from them when you take it off. Any ideas? Access would obviously be easier if they came off.
Anyway, next job is getting the rear section of the hole cut neatly and correctly to size, and then painting a few odds and ends ready to bung them on. I've ogt a mammoth stint at work coming up though I might be away for a while. :( Tell you what though, there are some brilliant builds on here, I'll be looking every day even if I have nothing to post. Have a good week everyone!
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I've been thinking about how I'm building up this thread, and how it seems miles bigger than all the others on here - I have 73 photographs now, for instance (!!! ;D!!!). Most people just put a few here and there. I don't worry about taking up room on the Mayhem server, as I host the pictures elsewhere and therefore use no room on Mayhem's server at all, but I'm worried I host too many, and that I explain too much about what I'm doing when 99% of people on here will already know.
The only guide I use is just to imagine I'm trying to explain how to build this boat to someone who's about my level of ability (small!!) with about my level of knowledge (small again!!). This can be seen by how much help I'm getting from other builders! ;D
I seem to be getting a lot of reads so I must be doing something right, but I'd be grateful for any advice about hosting less/more photos, doing less/more waffling on, etc.
Thanks guys,
Julian.
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Julian....
I think you'll not get any detractors on this board. The problems you have overcome and explanations how you did it have been very informative. Myself, I look forward to seeing your progress and smile at the solutions you find.
All in all a great build log.
Thanks for doing it.
doug in Victoria, BC.
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Hi there,
Never do yourself down, in your capabilities! & never think your abilities are inferior to anyone elses!
There are several type of people in this world - those that stand and think - and do nowt
and those that think they know little - but are very good!! :D and are doing something useful with
their hands!
Always remember - every one of us on this planet has one thing in common - we never stop learning!!
I, for one, really enjoy watching your build - and its inspiring - even when I am going through a
mundane part of a model build, & sick to me back teeth of the model - I have a look through the Forum
and see what everyone else is building and what they are doing - and it gives ya inspiration - so keep on
posting!!!!!
Always remember - Once struggle is grasped, miracles are possible!!!
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Alright fellas? :D Long time - no see.
I've been very busy lately - I've had no time for messing about with boats, and to be honest I can only see this situation continuing for a while, I have work, and a holiday coimng up. Ah well...
However - I need advice. I've been painting bits of the Slo Mo up, spraying things silver and bunging them on, prepping the engine cover, getting bits ready etc. I got to painting the panels that swoop along the side from the bow - you know, the ones I had to make my own from templates. Well on the instructions, you can clearly see that all of this panel is to be painted silver, as though on the real boat this panel was made of metal. However on other models I have seen (Ernie Lazenby's, for example) it seems to be made of wood, with just a square metal panel at the rear end.
So, is there a right and wrong way to do it? Obviously the Slo Mo went though 5 different versions, and I'm sure each of those was tweaked and altered here and there along the way, so maybe neither method of painting my model would be wrong. I just need someone to confirm this for me or correct me. Which is the correct version for this model? I would prefer to do it in the 'wooden panel with metal hatch' version as I think it would look nicer, but I have a few areas of filler showing which might look rubbish if I put wood-stain and varnish on top. Probably the 'all metal' version is correct as that's what the instructions say after all, but... I don't really like it. I'll have to use all my genius and cunning to find a solution... ;D
Also while I'm at it - how was the bottom finished? I want to leave it in plain wood and just cover it in resin, but I have more areas of filler and parts where I've sanded through layers of plywood which don't look particularly nice. Any ideas, anyone? I don't really want to paint it.
As for the resin, I'm mentally preparing myself for days on end of fine sanding, followed by painting on more coats and then more days on end of fine sanding, but does anyone have any tips on sanding into tight corners? There are going to be quite a few on this thing, and it would be a shame to 'fall at the last hurdle' and have areas like along the bottom of the tail fin for example, where I couldn't get in properly with the wet&dry, which would look unfinished.
Right, unless anyone knows anything about how to get freeview boxes working, I've finally run out of questions! More later!
Julian. ;)
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sanding into corners - cut a template block out of hardwood, wrap the wet&dry around it and use patience!
Take your time it will be worth it!
Ian
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I've been thinking about how I'm building up this thread, and how it seems miles bigger than all the others on here - I have 73 photographs now, for instance (!!! ;D!!!).? Most people just put a few here and there.? I don't worry about taking up room on the Mayhem server, as I host the pictures elsewhere and therefore use no room on Mayhem's server at all, but I'm worried I host too many, and that I explain too much about what I'm doing when 99% of people on here will already know.
The only guide I use is just to imagine I'm trying to explain how to build this boat to someone who's about my level of ability (small!!) with about my level of knowledge (small again!!). This can be seen by how much help I'm getting from other builders! ;D
I seem to be getting a lot of reads so I must be doing something right, but I'd be grateful for any advice about hosting less/more photos, doing less/more waffling on, etc.
Thanks guys,
Julian.
Never be afraid to post Julian - All these forums suffer from the same problem, hundreds of registered users, but only a few dozen that ever post anything!
I'm sure the great majority thoroughly enjoy watching a detailed account of a build, and it's a superb way for newbies and old hands alike to learn new things, as well as a way of you being able to ask for help and advice as you go...
I haven't commented on your build in the past (at least I don't think I have?), but I have followed it with great interest, so keep up the good work!
Regards
Eddy
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Hi Eddy - thanks for your friendly words! And also to Bluesy and Bluebird too for letting me know how some of the people on the other end of this build perceive it. It's nice to know it seems to be going down well and I'm not boring people's pants off after all...! ;D
To be honest, I'm really enjoying making this thread. Ok, I'm getting lots of very valuable help and advice through doing it which was my main reason for starting it, but in the process I've discovered that I also just enjoy making some sort of record of how the model's coming together, and I enjoy documenting the problems I've come up against and what I did to get around them. I'd like to print it out when I'm done, to keep with the model.
It's something that my folks can have a look at too, despite being 200 miles away, and I've a good mate in Berlin (ayup Dusty!) who takes a look and follows my progress.
So, I'll carry on as I am, posting pictures where I think I need to to explain properly what I'm doing, and imagining I'm writing for someone at about my level on the other end.
Thanks again for your replies, people. ;)
Have a good day.
Julian.
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Hello again - long time no see!
I had a nasty shock when I saw the forum had gone down over the last couple of days - blimey!? This is already my 2nd attempt at making this thread, after the forums on modelboats.co.uk closed down on me after I'd got to about 30-odd posts !!!? Argh!? Anyway, well done Martin for rescuing us all.? I had to laugh about how much damage the hackers will have caused on Western capitalism, by closing down the forums of model boat builders... ::)
Anyway, after weeks away, I finally got to have a go on the boat yesterday. I stuck the silver 'metal' strips along the sides, a few other little metallic bits and bobs, and painted the BWT's in metallic silver.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum74_DSCF2756.jpg)
Next was assembling the tail fin. The destructions weren't very helpful and I nearly made the whole thing completely wrong, but I eventually discovered it's meant to be hollow - with two sides made of thin ply, and the rest made up of 4mm ply.? Typically for the model there was a big gap between the side and the top and bottom 'edges' - you can see the small 'filler' bits of thin ply I cut and sanded down tapering away to nothing, towards the back end.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum75_DSCF2757.jpg)
Here's what I had after a couple of coats of gloss red.? The 'aileron', moving part of the tail fin is made of two sheets of balsa stuck together, so it didn't take very well to paint. No matter how much I've put on the wood just soaked it up and left a nasty matt finish.? I have sanded it down with fine wet&dry hoping a 2nd coat will fare better, but it hasn't done.? I'm toying with the idea of making another one from harder wood and painting that instead.? Depends how patient I'm feeling as I go along...
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum76_DSCF2758.jpg)
At the moment the boat is covered in masking tape and paper, getting ready to paint the red stripe across the top.? As usual I really hope I get this bit right, as messing up something is big and obvious as this would really spoil things.? I hope I've got it symetrical.
More later, as I get along.
Well done again Martin for having a back up of everything on the forum!!!
Julian.
.
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Hi ya there mate,
One trick you can try to stop paint from sinking into bare balsa wood is to give it a couple of coats of model sanding sealer.
It costs about ?2.50 for 125 mls tin.
Once you have given the balsa wood a couple of coatings of sanding sealer, you can rub the sanding sealer back to a very smooth finish and then paint straight over the top. This prevents the paint being absorbed into the Balsa wood.
Hope this helps
Aye and Well done Martin, I thought ....................... here we go another Forum gone doon the drain... but hey presto....back again
Aye bluebird
john E
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Thanks again for the tip, John. I've got a couple of coats of red on the tail fin now and it's not soaking into the wood anymore, so I think we're ok.
It's my turn to give out a tip now, instead of receiving them: When spray-painting models when you have nowhere inside to use as a spray room, don't take it down to the grassy bit of rough ground round the corner under the big tree. Especially if there's even just a tiny breeze!! ;D It's likely you'll get results like mine - a nice even coat, containing 3 small flies, lots of blown up dust, and even a caterpillar!!! And if you're REALLY unlucky like I was, you'll plonk the boat down near an ants' nest and they'll all come out to see what's going on and say hello, a fair few of them getting stuck in your paint too.
In the end I just had to laugh about it. I have absolutely nowhere inside I can use as a spraying room as our flat is so small, so I had no choice - I had to go outside. I've learned my lesson now though, I've found somewhere lots better.
As you were!
Julian. ;)
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a tough lesson learnt!
Why not make a box out of mdf to spray inside? Might work.
Ian
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Hi Boatmadman,
Yeah, I thought of making a spray-booth from some big cardboard boxes I have in the loft, but I thought at the time I'd be ok as I was.? This is quite a learning curve for me and I'm realising day by day that I'm still quite near the bottom! I don't mind making mistakes as ong as they're not big ones, and as long as I learn from them.
Anyway, here's the result of the spray job.? Despite the attack of the mutant ants, it looks ok.? I've got a bit of overspray here and there which I'm very annoyed about as it just shows how rubbish my masking was. I'm not sure how to get it off either.? Any ideas, anyone? I'm going to try white spirit at first, and if that doesn't work, very fine wet & dry paper.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum77_DSCF2762.jpg)
I've just sat the tailfin on the boat for the photo, it's not glued on yet or anything.? In fact I'm toying with the idea of leaving the tailfin off whilst treating the body and tailfin with resin seperately right at the end, and then glueing the tail on - that way it'll be one less nasty corner to try and flat back with the fine wet&dry.? What do you lot think? Honest, I don't know where I'd be without you lot! ;)
Anyway, we're getting there, aren't we? ;D
Julian.
.
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Long time no see, fellas!
Here's the latest update with the Slo Mo. I wish I could get more of this done and quicker, but I get so little time to myself, I'm afraid this is just as fast as I can go.? Thanks for sticking with me!! I'm seven months and counting with this thing!
I got the little bits of over-spray wiped off with a rag dipped in white spirit, and I can honestly say that she really looks something like it now the paint job is so much neater.? I'm actually proud of her again!? And as for the tailfin, I've decided to stick it on and then put the resin on, as I just want the whole thing to be done and 'working' before I put the resin on, as it is kind of the finishing touch isn't it?
As always though, any suggestions or advice are very welcome!!
I've spent an entire afternoon last week just tidying bits of the model up, doing things like painting little bits, carefully shaping the plastic engine cover so it follows the contour of the curve on top of the hull (that took ages!) I didn't make a post detailing all that stuff, it's not very interesting.
Anyway, here we are.? The destructions say to get on with? a.s.s.e.mbling the back end next - the mechanism for operating the rudder and tailfin, etc; but I wanted to have the 'top' of the boat completely finished before I got onto mechanical things, so I'm building this engine cover and exhausts now.
Here's how you do the exhausts - there are no dimensions or anything given of course, it's just up to you!? Start with a bit of 10mm dowel......
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum78_DSCF2818.jpg)
.......attack it randomly with leatherman tool and bung little bits of? ?b.r.a.s.s? ?rod onto it until you get......
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum79_DSCF2819.jpg)
......And and as it's 36 degrees round here today, don't forget liberal application of the boat-builder's friend, ice cold beer.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum80_DSCF2820.jpg)
I can't see how to attach these exhausts to the actual boat, but I'll find a way.? I'm happy now with how this boat is meant to go together - lots of it is just left to the builder to invent as he goes along.? I was nervous at first as I was expecting to be told what to do all the time - now if I can't see any instruction I just plough ahead and make something up!! ;D
By the way - any word I type which contins the letters 'a', 's' and another 's' are coming out saying "bottom" so I'm sorry about having to put full stops in words like a.s.s.embling, but it's the only way to write the word!
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I'm having a pig of a day with this thing today. I've been at it all day and the only thing I have to show for it is my blood-pressure is about 1,000,000 points higher. The boat looks pretty much the same as it did at 9:00am this morning.
I get as far as I can with one little fiddly bit and then have to stop to paint something - then I think I may as well get on with something else while it dries, but 5 minutes into that bit I discover I have to do something else first, or I've made a tiny mistake weeks ago which I have to pull apart before I can go on, or something. I've had two whole days now just trying to progress with this top bit - the engine cover and exhausts. Two days! And it's not even finished! I can't work out how to attach the exhausts to the BWT's, and there's no clue in the instructions. It's not even structurally or mechanically important for the boat, it's just a bit which needs to look neat. You have to paint bits before gluing on, which means using epoxy, as wood glue won't stick paint, and superglue is rubbish. But whilst the epoxy sets, something moves slightly and buggers up 4 hours' worth of sanding, cutting, shaping, filling, and finally painting....
And my wife wonders why I'm in a bad mood when she gets in from work when I've had a day of to do what I like!!!
Why do we do this to ourselves?
Anyway, moving on. I've only just noticed something very unusual about this model. The rudder is not in the middle of the stern. It's off to one side, quite a long way.
Can anyone confirm this is how the real boat was made? It seems very odd to me. I'll post a pic in a minute.
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.
Here are a couple of pics of the plans. You can see the rudder way off centre here, this one shows how the rod from the servo is meant to come out of the back end attaching straight to it.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum81_DSCF2839.jpg)
This is the actual plans. You can see obviously the big red tailfin is central, but also how the rudder isn't. I'm ok building the boat in this way, I've just never seen a boat like this before, and I'm a little confused as to how well it will perform on the water. Can anyone throw any light on this for me?
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum82_DSCF2840.jpg)
By the way, I can't see how the tail fin is controlled either, I'm afraid it might be meant to be fixed in place. Boring!!!! I'm not having that, I want it to move with the rudder. I might have to get my thinking cap on.....
;D
Right, I'm off out on my bike, before this boat goes out of the window!
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Are you aware that MMI for August has a detailed article on building the Billings kit!
Barrie
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Hi Barrie,
No, I wasn't aware of this! I wish I'd known, there may be interesting titbits or hints I could use. I'll go down the model shop tomorrow and pick one up. Thanks for the info.
Any ideas about the rudder being off centre?
Thanks'
Julian. :)
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Sorry Julian, passed my copy onto a friend so can't check. I didn't read the article fully as there is no way I am ever going to buy any Billings kit ever again!!!
Barrie
PS I will have the mag back soon, so if you cant get a copy let me know.
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Hi Barrie, don't worry mate, it gave me a good excuse to go down the model shop and pick up a copy. The write up is very interesting - and I wish to God I'd had it a few months ago!! ;D You've got to laugh really, haven't you?!!!! There are definately a few little ideas in there I could've done with knowing before - my version deviates from Michael Bloss' one in a few little ways here and there and I think Michael's way is better. The way he put the mahogany down using epoxy, so that any leaks are hidden when he puts the epoxy on the outside, or the way he's painted the red stripe on AFTER the resin, for example. He's obviously been doing this a lot longer than I have though.
Ah well - que sera. :)
BTW, the off-centre rudder is correct.
Despite having a rough day with the Slo Mo yesterday I did persevere last night and put the 1st coat of epoxy resin on the outside. The fella in MMI thins his down with acetone, but 1. I didn't know to do that, and 2. I haven't got any anyway, so there you go. Surprisingly, despite following the instructions very carefully, I'd only been going about 10 minutes when the stuff started to harden on the brush and get extremely hot. I'd only done half the hull! So much for slow curing! Also, take a look at what has happened:
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum83_DSCF2841.jpg)
It looks like there's been some sort of reaction somewhere, between the epoxy and 'something unknown' on the hull - perhaps the glue. I hope you can see properly on this picture, I tried as well as I could to show the problem reflecting in the light. It looks 'mottled' - I think that's just about the best way to describe it. Some areas are misty grey too, sort of smokey, and there are areas which look like they have repelled the epoxy leaving bumps and 'dry' areas. I just asked the guys in the model shop and their suggestion was that it is the residue from the glue I used to stick the mahogany down with (wood glue and cyano). Also there's a line along the edge of the red stripe where the masking tape was, which has accepted the epoxy better than other bits, so obviously the adhesive from the masking tape soaked into the wood.
I have no idea what to do about this. All I can think of is that I'll try to flat it all back as smooth as I can, and put another coat on - hopefully it'll be ok. I need to totally sand away the smokey areas though, I'm not leaving it like that.
It's quite demoralising, really. After all this work, this blo.ody boat is fighting me all the way. I know I can't expect to get this thing to a professional finish - I'm not a professional for one thing - I have no workshop, just a corner of a tiny lounge I can use when no-one's in, I have to paint outside getting attacked by ants and dust, cut things with a big whopping leatherman due to having no proper tools, etc etc. And all the time I'm reminded how little I actually know about boats!! ;D This is only my 3rd model, and although I knew I was possibly biting off more than I could chew with it and I didn't particularly want an 'easy build', I've found this thing damned frustrating at times!
I'm having a little break in a few days - going away with my family, I'll see a good friend from Germany too, and relax away from work. I'm going to try and put this beast out of my mind and hopefully I'll come back to it in a couple of weeks with more enthusiasm for it.
Meanwhile - any and all advice about the resin problem will be very gratefully accepted! ;)
Thanks everyone,
Julian.
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Meanwhile - any and all advice about the resin problem will be very gratefully accepted! ;)
Thanks everyone,
Julian.
Bad luck indeed. Best way I've found of removing all traces of a disaster like that, is by scraping with an old fashioned razor blade, the heavy duty ones sold for small planes and balsa strippers are best, and Westbourne sell them, doubtless other model shops too. Hold the blade at an angle of about 60 degrees to the surface and scrape towards you, only trying to remove a thin shaving at a time, and the epoxy must be fully cured. Make some kind of holder if the blade is double edged, otherwise you'll spoil the model by bleeding all over it.You can get a pretty good finish like this with practice, but whatever you do, don't go through to the wood. Then you can finish lightly with 600 wet & dry. After that, try applying a second coat of epoxy, and better luck next time. I don't like to wet & dry too much on a model at this stage of completion, some water always seems to get inside the model somewhere to find and swell exposed wood. Let us know how you get on.
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Orby,
I'm no expert, particularly with resin, but the results could be due to it curing too fast and thus not having time to let surface tension do its thing. Is there any way you can slow it down? Don't know about the clouding though :(
Cheers
Doug
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Hi Doug,
You may be right, the mottling may be due to it curing too fast. I know when I put resin on the inside it took ages to cure, but the 1st batch I made to put on the outside the other night went hard in about 10 minutes - way too fast. I did however follow the mixing instructions perfectly - 1 part hardener to 3 parts resin. The next batch I did took longer as I made it runnier - about 4 parts resin.
After I get it all off and start again with it, I'll do it nice and runny, and hope for the best!!! ;D Wish me luck!
Thanks for the advice,
Julian.
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.
Hiya.
Well I've been away and had my rest. I kept thinking about my boat however, so I didn't really get a break from that! I took it up to show my dad the other day, and he recommended a particularly unusual method of 'repair'. Apparently when he was building anything in the past and needed to scrape something away when he had no plane or similar bladed impliment to hand, he often used a - wait for it - piece of broken glass!!!!!!!!! ;D I had to laugh. It's typical of my dad, that is.
Anyway, while I was in the other room, he sneaked out to get some from the greenhouse (everyone has supplies of broken glass, don't they? ;D) and set to my boat!!!! Imagine my surprise when I saw that it was actually working. He had a good scrape, and I had a little go, until we got done by my stepmum for getting epoxy scrapings all over the carpet.
Anyway, he gave me a few spare shards of glass (from his collection) and I've sat out on the balcony this morning getting stuck into it. I've tried to get down to just the thinnest of layers of epoxy, so I can sand the rest away. In places it's gone through the paint, but that's ok as I intend to repaint the red stripe on top of the resin like the fella in the MMI magazine.
There was nothing for it but to be rough - sanding this epoxy away would have taken days. Hopefully now I can just sand a while until I'm back to wood, then start again.
Judging by how careful I've been trying to build this thing, the boat now looks an absolute mess, like someone's gone at it with - well - a shard of broken glass or something.
The following picture may shock some viewers....
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum84_DSCF2904.jpg)
As yet I obviously have no idea whether or not I've done the right thing. As usual, time will tell. Is there an award or something for people who have no idea what they're doing but blindly carry on anyway??? ;D
Julian.
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Yes, there is Julian, but it has got my name on it for the foreseeable future! :P
Tim the Wombat
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Maybe we can share it, Wombat!
Moving along now. Still a bloody great mess though!
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum85_DSCF2907.jpg)
I think I MAY have rescued this thing. Half the front is already done, and it looks good (considering). ;D
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum86_DSCF2908.jpg)
I can forget about getting all the red off, as I'll repaint it after I've done the resin again anyway - all I have to do is get the wood back to bare clean wood again, and I should be ok. I'll crack on today and try and get it stained, then I'll have a go at the epoxy resin again ASAP. I want to try and do it quickly so nothing has time to go wrong again! Ever the optomist....
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Well, we got to 100 posts! Sometimes I think the thread I'm building is doing better than the boat!
Anyway, after a fine sanding and a coat of woodstain, we have this:
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum87_DSCF2912.jpg)
Right I'm off to buy some acetone - the guy in MMI thinned his epoxy down with it before putting it on, which might help me.
However, I just read post 36 on this thread and BobF says this:
"Other epoxy systems are available under different names. I have found that some others suffer from a problem called waxing, which stops further coats from sticking, and causes puddles to form in the finish. This can be sanded away, so could lead to a better finish as you have no option but to sand it well back".
Is this the problem I had? If I do another coat of resin, will it stick? Bl**dy hell, here I go again, blundering on and just seeing what happens...
At least it looks like I may have rescued the problem I did have, and the boat looks a damn-sight better that it did before I started this morning.
.
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We have all been there....ok..maybe not to this degree, but it's nice to see your a fighter! If it was me i might have given up, but you have proved persistance pays.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!!!
Regards:Voyager.
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Thanks Voyager! ;D
I don't know about being a fighter, I think it's just that I've spent most of my spare days (which are very few due to work and family) building this thing, and it's taken me 8 months so far! I carry on because I just can't face seeing 8 months' work go down the drain!
So I plough on!!
Anyway, I did manage to get a coat of resin on last night. You'll be pleased to know that it went on perfectly well - no blemishes, misty areas, no anything, just nice smooth resin. I have no idea what I did differently to the last attempt, but whatever it was, worked. I did manage to get some dust settle on the resin and stick, but I'm hoping it will sand off with fine wet&dry.
What grade paper do people recommend I need for flatting this resin back? I'm a stranger to wet and dry. The finest I have at the mo, is 320.
Anyway, thanks for the crossed fingers Voyager, I think it worked! ;D
I'll post some more pics when I get some more coats on and there's something to show.
Julian.
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Glad it went ok the second time! My local model shop ''Hannants'' sell Micromesh polishing cloths for polishing clear plastic kit canopy's, as you often get a injection moulding line. I purchased some a while back and it's worth every penny, it comes in a set of 5 assorted grade wet and dry polishing cloths, the grades are: 12000, 8000, 6000, 4000, 3600 + foam rubber polishing pad £8.99. This would be ideal for sanding the hull back to a super smooth glass like finish!
If this is any help, let me know and i can pass the shop details to you via this thread.
Regards:Voyager.
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Voyager,
Mate, that sounds brilliant - thanks very much. If you can give me the details for the shop, I'll give them a bell - they may do mail order or something.
Thanks again,
Julian.
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Just have to pop to my doctors, will give the details when i get back, and yes the mail order service is available.
Be in touch in 30/45min!
Voyager.
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Ok..i'm back! Right...the shop is called ''Hannants'' which is in Hendon North London and the number is: 02082056697
You should ask for a Micropolishing set for polishing Aircraft canopy's, the price i have on my packet is £8.99.
Let me know how you get on.
Regards:Voyager.
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Thanks for the info, Cap'n! ;)
I rang, but they only do a postal service from their other branch (did he say Folkstone?). I'm at work at the moment though and my boss is prowling so using the phone is tricky, and when I got chance to ring the right place they were shut. I'll have to ring tomorrow in my lunch break.
I just spoke to my dad though - he said he knew the sort of stuff you're on about and said I was onto a good thing. He's used it for polishing marks out of perspex apparently. I've also got something similar for polishing marks out of acrylic watch crystals.
Many many thanks again for the help!
I'll post pics of my results when I have some.
Julian.
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I've ordered some Micromesh, it should be with me soon. Thanks Voyager.
I had a look at the Slo Mo again last night. The top is fine apart from a little dust, but the resin is so viscous it has dripped slowly down and formed rivulets of resin on the sides, and stalagtites dripping down off the bottom!
AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH! >:( I couldn't believe it! It was fine when I went to bed the other night, it must have very very slowly dripped down overnight and hardened!
I can't do the broken glass trick either, I'm going to get the Dremel out and grind the little bumps away one by one.
The problem is that SP113 is the consistency of golden syrup, and if it's going to drip, it'll do it so slowly you won't see it until it's too late, unless you're prepared to sit there watching it for hours. I need to get some acetone like the bloke in MMI magazine, thin the resin down so it's runnier, so any drips or runs can be spotted a lot quicker. Also I need to put a lot less on in each coat, so there's less there to run.
Sometimes I feel this boat just doesn't want to be built - it fights me every step recently. Other times though I'm more logical, and I just remind myself that I'm using tools, materials and building methods I've never used before (sometimes all at the same time!) and I'm having to learn from my mistakes what the hell I'm doing. I could do with someone more experienced looking over my shoulder, but the nearest I have to that is my dad 200 miles away, and you lot on here helping me out.
Hey just think how much worse it would be if I didn't have you lot!! ;D
More pics as and when.
Julian.x
ps. Voyager, I noticed on another thread you mentioned Black Park club. Are you local to it? I'm only in Beaconsfield. Maybe if you're a member I'll bring the boat down when it's done!
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Hi, no i'm not a member of Black Park, but it's an open park so all is welcome. I live 30/40min's away, so it would be great to see you and the boat there sometime! We are having a big gathering at Black Park (aprox 300/400 boats on show) on the 3rd of September, so if your free why not come along and bring your boat.
Regards:Voyager.
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Hello!
I think I'm around on Sept 3rd, I may be able to make it down to Black Park - I'd love to come along and chat to a few people. I'll bring my Phantom along for a buzz about too. It would be nice to meet a few bods from on here - put a few faces to names, you know?
I went to Wycombe Models today to ask about Acetone - they don't stock it, as apparently it's just nail polish remover! I had no idea!
The nail polish remover we have in the cupboard is made of water, glycerin, acetone, bitrex, and colouring, so I don't think it would be suitable. Where can I get acetone on its own from? Does anyone on here know? Or can anyone recommend something else to thin down the resin?
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Hi Julian,
Just an idea of where you could find it ....
Our local Homebase and B & Q Diy sheds, sell it.. its not cheap about £8 a litre I think..
I saw it near the wood stains, treatment, waxes and similar stuff section
Would definately be cheaper in a model shop, if you could find one that stocks it.
Good luck
Steve
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Fantastic stuff, hope to see you there! I will PM you my number so as you can ring me when you get there, look forward to having a chat with you.
Regards:voyager
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If thinning resin you can use methyanol and it is not that expensive, we used to thin our resin for covering foam wings on aircraft..
Roy
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Wow, thanks everyone for your help!
Voyager - thanks for the PM, I'll see you there! :D
I'll get shopping around for some acetone somewhere cheaper or methanol (isn't methanol a fuel? Should be easier to find some somewhere like model shops maybe). Meanwhile I await the micromesh stuff, and have bought some fine-ish wet & dry 600 grade. With those two I should be able to get the results I want. So thank you again for the info everyone.
Unfortunately for progress on the Slo Mo, I have a long stint of work coming up, followed by a short break away in our caravan - meaning there won't be a lot of time for messing about with boats for a couple of weeks! I'll get back on here the moment I have anything to show you (or ask you, more like!).
Have fun, fellas.
;)
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Just a quick post to thank Andy on here for PM-ing me with a link to these guys: http://www.fibretechgb.co.uk
I've had no luck at Homebase, model shops, or anywhere like that getting acetone or methanol, until I rang 'Fibretech' and they have 500ml of pure acetone, or 'epoxy resin thinners', whatever that can be, both for £3.00. Bargain. I need to send a cheque as they have a £10 limit on credit card transactions, but I'm in no rush, that's fine.
I bought the 'epoxy thinnners' instead of acetone because as I want to thin-down epoxy, epoxy thinners sounded like the best option! ;D
Andy also mentioned he'll be going to Black Park and I'd be able to pick his brains about brushless motors. See you there matey!
Julian.
ps. BTW, I did ask the guy at Fibretech if he could throw any light on the mottled crappy result I got with the SP113, as I thought he may know a thing or two about resins, but he had no idea - it remains a mystery. ???
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I'm there most Sunday Julian so pop down whenever you like.
Andy
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I now need to thin epoxy for the first time, can anyone indicate roughly how much to thin by just to make the epoxy a little less thick?
Thanks
Ian
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Hi All,
I have hesitated before posting again as Orby 1 had problems after using my last one. (In my defence, I did say a light misting of water may help stop the strips from curling.)
I use epoxy regularly and thin it with various types of thinners. De natured alcohol if you can get it, but this is only meths withought the smell and colour added. Also cellulose thinners is OK. When I am sealing a hull, I use finishing resin thinned 50/50 with a light sanding between coats on external surfaces.
Please feel free to ignore this posting Orby.
Regards BobF
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Hello fellas.
I've been away quite a while - on holiday, at work, being busy at home trying to move house, etc. So apologies from me, I've only just seen the last 2 posts. :-[
1. BobF, don't worry mate I wouldn't ignore your posts, I didn't mean to imply your advice about wetting the mahogany strips was wrong, I think I may have made them too wet and literally swelled the whole thing instead of just one side. One of the reasons I started this thread was to ask advice from people like yourself who know more than me, so please continue to advise!
2. Boatmadman, on returning from my holiday last night I found a parcel of resin thinnners from Fibretech. As for how much thinner to use, I only had a quick look at the instructions, but I think it said 1 part thinner to 5 parts resin. I will need to double check this tonight when I get home though, so give me 24hrs to confirm!!
3. Andy and Voyager, I was really sorry to miss the Black Park Regatta. I was looking forward to meeting you and others, and chatting, asking about motors (in fact asking about pretty much everything! ;D) etc. Unfortunately we got chance to go away on holiday a few days early, and we took it. I had to miss the regatta. I do plan to go down there on a Sunday morning soon though and make an effort to chat to the gang.
I haven't touched the Slo Mo in what seems like ages - I get so little 'free' time. I now have the polishing cloths from Hannants though so along with the resin thinnners I can really crack on with it all the 1st chance I get. It's obvious from looking at the cloths though, they are extremely, amazingly, incredibly fine. Even the roughest one just feels like a normal peice of cloth! The finest is going to be like rubbing the boat down with a strip of leather!!!
I need to start with quite smooth-ish wet and dry paper first, then the smoothest I can find, then the cloths. Whatever happens, my results will be posted for your information and entertainment on here!!
Have a good day, people.
Julian.
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No problem, there is always another day! To be honest with you, you should find added enthusiasm and fresh ideas after a spell away from your boat, it often works for me! Glad your happy with the polishing cloths, expensive but well worth it. I have also noticed a variety of rivet heads in plastic ranging in different sizes from Hannants, should you wish to add detail to the engine these would be great. They also do photo etched seat buckles, not sure if you want to super detail your boat to this degree, but they do look fantastic and would add a nice touch to your model.
Look forward to seeing more posts!
Regards:Voyager
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I now need to thin epoxy for the first time, can anyone indicate roughly how much to thin by just to make the epoxy a little less thick?
Thanks
Ian
Hi Ian,
I can confirm the instructions in my thinners say to mix epoxy and thinners in a ratio of 5 parts to 1 as I previously guessed.
Julian.
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Great, thanks for that.
Ian
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Hello - just thought I'd break cover from my usual lurking on the forum to say how much I've enjoyed your build thread (here and on the modelboats forum). I've been following the build for a while and I was really choked about the problem you had with the epoxy.
I look forward to you coming back and giving us a happy ending ;).
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Hello - just thought I'd break cover from my usual lurking on the forum to say how much I've enjoyed your build thread (here and on the modelboats forum). I've been following the build for a while and I was really choked about the problem you had with the epoxy.
I look forward to you coming back and giving us a happy ending ;).
Hi Kikkari,
Thanks for the kind words! I haven't been on here for a good while now - mainly due to not having done any major work on the model and having nothing to show! :(
I did have a free morning earlier this week and had a go at the bumpy epoxy, but it was pretty soul-destroying to be honest. I got stuck into smoothing down the back end, and after going at it with wet and dry, it just looked like a bl00dy horrible mess. Fortunately I then spent an hour rubbing it down with the micromesh stuff (I still can't feel my arm) and I brought it back to a level I'd describe as just "a mess". Due to how fine the cloths are, there are no visible scratches, but the whole surface just has a 'smoked' effect, if you know what I mean.
Perhaps another hour or two with the finer cloths can bring it back to shiny smooth CLEAR epoxy... Hopefully. However what I can't bear is the fact that even if I can rescue it, I then have to build up this epoxy with more coats, and do it all over again. And again. And again. And I spent the good part of a whole morning just on the top of the rear of the boat - how long can I expect to spend rubbing this stuff down? With how scarce my free time is, I'm looking at months of rubbing. Months.
I have to admit I've been near to admitting it might be beyond rescue, and packing it in.
However, I'm about to move house, I'll be very busy over the next few weeks, and I intend to put the boat to one side and try not to think about it for a bit. Then when I can come back to it I'll have had 'a while off', and I'll be ready to go at it again. That's the plan, anyway. :)
On the bright side - our new house is going to have a hobby room!!! Whooppeee! No more building boats on a fold-out table in the lounge!!
Thanks again for the encouragement, Kikkari - as soon as I have something to show you, I'LL BE BACK!!
Orb.
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If you want some acetone,,,pilfer the wifes nail varnish remover, fill the bottle up with water, and when she moans tell her to take it back and complain, when they give her another bottle, do the same and you have plenty and your wife gets banned from boots chemist, so you have more money to spend on your boats!!
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Thanks mate, but I have some epoxy resin thinner now. My wife's nail polish remover had other things in it - colouring, etc. :(
Ok, I've got a whole two days to myself!!! Yipee!
I heartily enjoyed sitting about in my underpants drinking tea most of this morning, I've just been for a nice big thrash round in the woods on my bike, and now here I am.
I've had a good go at the back end of the Slo Mo with finer micromesh stuff. Slowly, very slowly, the misty effect is disappearing. Be aware there's no light reflecting on the boat on this pic - the lighter areas are just where sanding the resin away has left it looking like this. I told you it was a mess!
The dark spots are areas where the surface rejected the resin when I put it on, there's a dip, and the wet&dry hasn't gone into the hole.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum88_DSCF2994.jpg)
This is going to take forever. I could be fitting motors by now, maybe even adapting the boat for surface drive like Ernie Lazenby's, or just finishing off the last little bits. Instead I'm going to be rubbing, rubbing, rubbing.
By the way - is anyone from here going down to Black Park tomorrow? They have a regular meeting up there on Thursday afternoons I think. I have a day off.
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Yep from midday - 1ish, for 2-3hours, depends on the weather
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Andy - I'll see you there mate! It'll be good to meet you. ;)
I took another couple of progress shots (mainly to give my arm a rest, it'll be like Schwartzenegger's before I'm done!). Here's what I noticed as I walked into the room - it shows how bumpy the surface really is :(
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum89_DSCF2995.jpg)
And here's the back end after a good rubbing down. It's not finished but it's on the way. The camera has reflected in the resin but hopefully you'll be able to see it's a lot lot better than it was an hour ago. I can't get rid of the tiny white dots - maybe the surface is slightly pitted and there's resin dust in there. I don't know what it is but it won't rub off.
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum90_DSCF2996.jpg)
The misty effect on the red stripes can stay - I'm not wasting time rubbing that down when I'm only going to paint red over it anyway.
Right I'm off to put some batts on charge for tomorrow - I'll take the Phantom down to Black Park! ;D
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bring the Slo Mo along
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Hope you have a good days sailing, great to see the build back on the go!
If I could venture one criticism, I didn't need to know about the underpants thing :D
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If I could venture one criticism, I didn't need to know about the underpants thing :D
I agree.... and also thrashing around in the woods on your bike in your underpants too...? :o What? In this weather...? Brrrrrr... ;D
Seriously, hope you get this surface sorted soon - sad to say, it always seems the way when you've put so much effort into it too! :(
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I spoke to a chap at the Swansea show a few years ago who had a very nice runabout and the way he did it was to put it on, then use a credit card to scrape most of it of andthen flat it off in between, he said he would put on about 10 coats .. his looked like glass. Peter
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That method may well be of help, Peter, thanks. I do think though that at this stage of 'being a complete mess', all I want to do with this resin is get the mess that's on now, as smooth as possible. If I can do that, anything will be possible!!
And I feel I must defend myself about the underpants thing. You must admit, it's one of life's little pleasures! I find it very underrated. I'd go as far as to say it's the right of every British male to occasionally find a quiet peaceful moment, and sit about in his pants dunking biscuits into his tea. Just a man, some tea, a packet of hobnobs, and some underpants. It's a moment of solace - undisturbed and unmolested by the rest of the world whizzing past outside. It's like 'zen'. I have some of my best ideas whilst doing this!
Perhaps I'll try it wearing trousers later on and get back to you. ;D
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I went to Black Park even though it was raining pretty hard. Everyone was just leaving. :(
Anyway. After sanding myself to paralysis of the arm, I looked at the rest of the boat, saw it was 10 times more bumpy and knackered than the bit I've already been working on, and decided drastic action was necessary. There was no way on Earth I could do it by hand. Readers of a sensitive disposition should look away now.....
(http://www.myimagehub.com/files/961/Boat%20pictures/forum91_DSCF2999.jpg)
As you were!!
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Nice to see you have your trouser on !! did you get my PM
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Hiya Andy,
Yes mate I didn't want to find myself on a charge of indecency so I dressed for the picture. ;D
Don't worry about not being at the park, I almost didn't go either, as it was raining - I just decided last minute to go for it. I work a weird shift pattern and don't always have weekends off and can't make this Sunday, but I'll try to get down there some time soon.
As for the Slo Mo, the plan is just to keep going, and try and stay patient. Rough wet & dry, then finer, then finer, then finer again. It'll be finished one of these days...
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Hi.
Good and bad news, as usual! Good news is I'm very gradually getting the bumpy crappy epoxy off this thing and smoothing it down.. The whole top of the boat looks fine now, which is the good news. The bad news is that when you look up close at it, you can see scratches from when I had to bet serious with the thing and use big nasty sandpaper(Don't worry I didn't use the electric sander on the top, by the way!). No amount of me rubbing and rubbing seems to get through to them. In fact in some areas I'm afraid of actually sanding through the resin back to wood.
I honestly don't know what to do!
I'm trying to look on the bright side though - all way through this build I've been coming up against problems I had no idea how to get around - and I'm still here building the thing, so I'm hoping some solution is going to present itself again somehow.
Maybe someone can help me with this one though:
To put more coats of epoxy on, do I have to sand each one right back to glass-like finish before putting the next one on?
I'm thinking that the coats I put on next will be thinner and runnier, with less actual epoxy going onto the boat, so they'll be less bumpy. Why would I have to sand each one back?
Honestly I'm getting sick to death of all this sanding. Those micromesh cloths are only little and so incredibly fine it's like rubbing the boat down with a piece of leather. It's soul-destroying rubbing something back for 20 minutes then looking at it and seeing no discernable difference whatsoever to the surface.
Still I'll keep at it. I may have a right arm like a weightlifter by the time I've done, but I'll keep you informed... ;D
Have a good day. ;)
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Try thinning the epoxy about half and applying, then sand lightly to remove any bumpy bits and apply another coat the same way and you should end up with a smooth surface, but you will have to keep sanding it now till all the bumps are gone mate, it is a pain but the finished item will be worth it....
Roy
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Keep going, I'm sure it will be worth it 8)
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Been following progress for a while now and your perseverance is staggering.
My only advice:
Make like a budgie my good modelling buddy : Suck seed.
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You can do it!!!!
Show me someone who's never been at the hair ripping stage of a build at sometime in their life and I'll show you a fibber! On my last build there were times when I thought I was going nuts- even dreamed about it but I got there in the end and in no small part thanks to the support and helpfullness of many on this forum.
Good luck dude!
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Hi everyone,
Just thought I'd let you know I was still alive!! ;D I've not posted in weeks and weeks, due to lack of spare time, illness, moving house, and also because all I ever seem to do with the boat is sand the damn thing down anyway, so there's really nothing to report.
As soon as I have anything to show you, I will. Just don't hold your breath - I'm tucked up in bed with tonsilitis now!!
Seeing what everyone else is up to on here is good fun though.
All the best, Julian.
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Hey Julian,
I have enjoyed looking over your build, I have been building the same kit; started it in August. It would appear that it has been a challenge for sure. I am confused about something. Why the epoxy on the deck? When building a kit that is based on the actual boat I try to think as the original builder thought. You have included several great pics of the original Slomo, so I would think that you have done at least some research on the Slomo designed by Ted Jones and built be Anchor Marine in Seattle WA (my home town). The Billing kit has done a good job duplicating the original construction. With instructions as vague as these we need to think with the same mind of the builder. The decks on the original Slomo were nothing but mahogany and varnish (lots of it) and paint. I have owned a classic Chris Craft for the last seven years and can vouch for the beauty and protection that a good quality varnish can deliver.
I have experienced many of the same challenges that you describe here, which is a relief as I was feeling that my issues were due to operator error.
I will begin my own build post soon.
Hang in there!
Ripp
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Hi Ripp,
Nice to hear from you! It's good to know that the problems I came up against have been shared by another builder - like you I now know that they weren't down to operator error! How did you find the fit of the panels under the front?
Yes I did do a little research into the original SloMo, but perhaps I didn't do enough as I had no idea what finish was used on her.
To answer your main question as to why I used epoxy on the deck - the main reasons are explained earlier on in this thread, somewhere around page 2. I saw a few other models where epoxy had been used and the finish was absolutely superb, it looked like glass, and when I asked people what I should use to get a finish like that, I was told epoxy. Now that the epoxy is getting sanded back to a good finish on most of the boat I can definately state that it looks beautiful, and if I hadn't had the problem I did have with it 'reacting' and going wrong, I'd use it again. It's rock hard, smooth as glass, and just as transparent. Take a look at the Ferrari hydroplane I put on here earlier on, and you'll see the finish I'm after.
This is only my 3rd model and by far the most 'involved', and I'm learning like mad as I go along. This has been a very steep learning curve for me, and there are many instances where my lack of experience shows. I have no idea where i'd be if it wasn't for the kind people on here!
To back up the 'epoxy' way of building, the chap in Marine Modelling International magazine who built this model recently also used epoxy. I just assumed it was a standard kind of method to use.
I was recommended that I put a few coats of epoxy on, sanding down well each and every one, but to be honest I just can't face it. After this one I'm going to apply the decals and paint, and use varnish. Well, I will if I ever get chance to do any more work on it anyway. Illness, my 3yr old, odd shift patterns, and house moves all conspire to keep me away from modelling lately!
Yes please do host your own build-up thread - I'd really love to see what/how someone else does with the model.
All the best, Julian.
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Hey Julian,
I have you to thank for figuring out how those DA@# plastic pieces work. You know you’re stumped when you begin dreaming (nightmares really) about the kit you are building. I knew were they went, and from carefully looking at the picture on the box I could see that the lip of them came over the cockpit, I just couldn't seem to see how the cutout on them would work, you must have just left about 1/8 around the edges?
I also have you to thank for a lighter wallet by about a grand, and another great kit to my collection. The Ferrari kit that you mentioned earlier in this post caught my eye, I am truly attracted to the flowing lines of the earlier hydro’s. If you read the description on this kit you will see that they have listed eleven coats of varnish and paint, as well as being sealed with epoxy. I have spent countless days applying varnish to a life size model (40 ft Chris Craft Challenger) and after about eight coats with sanding in-between you get a hard glass like finish. Rub on it some more, and apply a few more coats and you have the wet look that every yacht owner longs for. The same is true for the smaller versions. I cannot be sure, but the finish on the Ferrari looks to me to be just the eleven coats of varnish that is listed. As for the epoxy waterproofing, I have applied epoxy to my Slomo, from the inside. I attached only a few deck planks to provide stability to the frames (bulkheads) but leaving access to the bilges. Look for my post soon. I sure don’t mean to sound critical here, you have proven that you have what it takes to be a successful builder; PATIENCE! You have helped many people with you post, myself included.
RIPP
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Hi Ripp,
Yes I left about 1/8 around the edges of those white plastic things. It's funny to look back at how stumped I was with them, because as soon as I worked it out it all seemed so simple. Always the way, I suppose.
That Ferrari model truly is beautiful, it took my breath away when I saw it on that website (modelshipmaster.com?) I think if I'd had more confidence I would've loved to build it, but as I've said many times I'm quite new to modelling and I'm certain I need a few more models under my belt before I tackle something like that. Is it really about a grand? Blimey! :o
Thanks for the advice about varnish - I'm seriously losing the will to live with this epoxy. If it had gone on correctly all would be well and I bet I'd be nearly finished with the model by now, but it slowed me down and I admit to being completely put-off working on it. I've even taken it out to start building, had a good look at how knackered it is, and put it straight back in the cupboard! Even the 2nd coat I put on, the one that went on perfectly, ran down under the boat and made rock hard 'stalagtites' about 5mm long underneath - how the hell am I meant to get those flat? :'(
Had I known about varnish I'd have just put epoxy on the inside like you.
Thank you for your kind words, I will keep my eyes open for your post - if you get further ahead than me with the SloMo (which is more than likely!) you'll be returning the favour and helping me to finish!
All the best, Julian.
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Hi orby1,
You should not have trouble with the drips under the hull. Drips sand away easily, as they don't have much width. It's the larger flat areas that take the sanding. Course wet and dry used with soapy water should solve the problem. If you want a really quick fix for the drips, just run a hot soldering iron over them, and they will just about drop off.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO IGNORE THIS INFO, or try it first with some purpose made drips on a piece of scrap wood. It also sounds as if you were a bit to generous with the resin. I always use as little as possible to just get a coverage.
Regards Bob
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Hi orby1,
I have been pointed in your direction by other members of the forum. I have just started Slo Mo & like you opened the box and found no explicit written instructions, which to a guy with only 3 models under his belt was a real downer.
I e-mailed Billings and got no practical help only a referral to their general modeling tips booklet which of course is useless.
I am at a very early stage and have found your diary invaluable so don't you dare stop posting.
Keep up the good work, keep posting and I might just get there.
Many Thanks Colin H.
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Hi Orby,
Long time since we heard from you, hope all is well.
With your help I have progressed quite well and was today looking in advance of what I am doing at what comes next, the cockpit. I am not sure were to go with this as there does not appear to be any dedicated materials (maybe I have missed something).
Would you or any one else have any info on the build of the cockpit.
Thanks Colin H.
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Hi Colin and Orby!
Been following your build for sometime. My build is pretty much at the same stage, just finished the veneer...quite enjoying the build so far but as its my first ever I'm learning as I go!
To get the keel dead straight I used small right angle blocks screwed onto a thick ply board then clamped the keel down with steel plates...bit overboard but worked very well.
Agree about lack of info and poor fit of parts, had to use lot of filler on the bow which looked terrible originally, planking was quite quick I just used straight planks and sanded the ends where needed, the veneer at the stern just needed light steaming, I have used "super glue" for most of the assembly, used evostick for the veneer to give a bit of adjustment time (did try using normal woodglue bust it really warped the thin sheet)
Now really looking forward to sanding a varnishing, I'm using normal clear gloss varnish on the top deck....I reckon 8-9 coats sanding down between should be OK, bottom hull will be sanding sealer then enamel paint, I'm building it for static display.
Colin you are right about no info on the drivers area...so I'm using the spare planking and "boxing" around the drivers seat so you cant see the inside hull.
I have attached a few pics showing planked hull and my method of holding things together...push pins and elastic bands are OK, the small holes fill easily after, I applied the glue after assembly and let it run into the joints.
My recently single again status lets me work on it most nights...too long sometimes...isn't TV boring at 2.00 AM!!!
Will post more soon, actually I think I will start own thread as I don't want to hijack yours Orby!
Great thread BTW Orby, hope you had a good Xmas!
Regards
Mark
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Hi mark,
Yes I have been thinking of making my own cockpit, it might just make life a liitle easier as I could tailor the cockpit and rear part of the large hole to fit. This would be better for me as mine is intended to being a runner fast I hope.
Look forward to your thread.
Yours Colin H.
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Long time no see, everyone!!
Crikey I've not been doing much to the SloMo in a long time. I have taken it in to work on nightshifts to sit and sand down when it's quiet, but I have to admit the size of the job facing me and sheer amount of bumpy rotten epoxy I have to clear up is putting me off. Sometimes it's easier to just pick up a book and read, you know? :-\
Still, I've been having a good go at it today (and it's really brilliant to see a couple more people building the same model - if you get in front of me I can ask you for help!!), and things are looking..... Well, not 'good' exactly, but 'ok'. I've been getting the wood nice and shiny and smooth with a golden mahogany shining through, but it's covered in little dings and hollows that I can't sand out. Here. take a look:
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/julianroberts/forum92_DSCF3101.jpg)
This shows the sort of finish I've got - it looks like a smooth bit of aluminium that someone's taken a pointy little toffee hammer to and hammered little hollows all over. I'm so disappointed I can't tell you. It's seeing it like this after so much effort that saps my enthusiasm for it. And it makes it even harder to make yourself work on it when you're sanding down with something that feels about as abrasive as a cotton duster and after half an hour it looks like nothing's happened! Mate, you just lose the will to live, I'm telling you.
And look at the bottom of the hull - this is how it looks after a good sanding:
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q77/julianroberts/forum93_DSCF3102.jpg)
Talk about a mess. I'm resigned to the fact that it won't ever be smooth and all I can hope to do is sort of iron out the worst of the bumps. If I sand too hard it goes through to the wood, as I've already done once or twice on the top, and I've even gone through a layer of ply in places as you can see here. :o
So, I keep sanding!
To ColinH and Marksaab, I can't tell you a lot about the cockpit, I haven't done it yet and was just intending to do as Mark mentioned, just boxing off the sides with planking wood and putting the seat in. Like you Colin this is only my 3rd model and I struggled with the poor instructions.
That idea with the pins and rubber bands looks useful - nice one! I think if I did this again, I'd put a few planks on the top first to keep the keel straight and then get all the bottom on while there was still access from the top like that Masterripp fella a few posts back - that would be 100 times easier than the way we have done it.
Keep at it fellas, and Mark I'll be looking out for your thread. I'll try to stick at my model, I just have so much sanding to do and it's so BORING!!!! ;D Hopefully one day I'll have a finished model to show you (I'm already a year into this model, and have no idea how much longer I'll need!).
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Orby1, I had the same sort of problem when scratch buillding a crabber. The best way of filling in the little pitted bits is to use P38 car filler available from Halfords. It dries hard, can be sanded, and takes the paint easily. hth, Pete M
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Hi Orby1,
Good to have you back.
Just a thought, looking at the bottom of the boat would it not be easier to remove the sheet ply and cut fresh from some lite ply sheet.
I know you cannot do this on the veneered uppper section but just to get rid of some of the boring sanding might ease the load.
One thing for sure after your problems I certainly will not be using epoxy.
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Bad luck indeed. Best way I've found of removing all traces of a disaster like that, is by scraping with an old fashioned razor blade, the heavy duty ones sold for small planes and balsa strippers are best, and Westbourne sell them, doubtless other model shops too. Hold the blade at an angle of about 60 degrees to the surface and scrape towards you, only trying to remove a thin shaving at a time, and the epoxy must be fully cured. Make some kind of holder if the blade is double edged, otherwise you'll spoil the model by bleeding all over it.You can get a pretty good finish like this with practice, but whatever you do, don't go through to the wood. Then you can finish lightly with 600 wet & dry. After that, try applying a second coat of epoxy, and better luck next time. I don't like to wet & dry too much on a model at this stage of completion, some water always seems to get inside the model somewhere to find and swell exposed wood. Let us know how you get on.
Forgive me for repeating this advice, but I hate to see a modeller suffer, and I really think you're going about this the wrong way. Take a tip from a professional model maker, scraping is a much better way than endless sanding of correcting a disaster like this. I'd still use heavy duty razor blades rather than glass though, it's much more controllable as well as being safer.
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Hi,
If all your sanding is getting down to the wood in places, it may be worth while putting another layer of epoxy on it. I know this sounds daft, but it means that the dings and hollows get a fill of epoxy, and then you can sand back the good areas to the level of the epoxy in the dings.
Does this make sense?
I had a similar problem with varnish on my riva, I got around it with several coats of varnish and sanding. here is a pic of the results
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I'd say madboatman is right, you're never going to recover from this disaster without filling the low spots, you can't achieve a smooth surface just by sanding, you have to alternately fill and sand. I think I'd have given up altogether some time ago, but how about sanding with a much coarser grade of paper than you seem to be using at the moment, and then adding a new layer of wood over the top of that? It's much easier to plank on top of planking than to plank over formers, and you'd only need to use a thin veneer.
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Blimey! So much advice!
I had a good afternoon yesterday and actually made some headway. I did loads of sanding (Anmo I started with quite rough paper!) and have put a coat of epoxy on the part of the bottom of the hull which was still bare wood (it worked perfectly, adding to the mystery of why the upper hull went so wrong), and also on top of the bumpy stuff, intending, as has been advised here to make it easier to sand (or maybe scrape) flat. I'm not hoping to get it all perfect, but it will be ok when I've done.
As for the advice that scraping would be better, yes I know! I did a lot of scraping on the top, but went thought the veneer in a couple of spots, as it's such an 'aggressive' method. I feel safer sanding - starting off with very rough paper and gradually getting smoother. Actually I did scrape the bottom of the bow, that really bumpy bit. The photo I took was after scarping and sanding down to about 600 grit (I think)
Isn't P38 opaque? despite driving a shabby 1967 beetle around for 6 years I never used it. If I was going to fill the little dings on the upper body I'd need something as transparent as the epoxy.
I'm really grateful for everyone's advice, by the way - thank you to you all.
The plan now is to bung another coat of epoxy on the bottom, get it smooth, then use layers of varnish. I could carry on with layers of epoxy but I may lose the will to live!!! ;D But then to be honest, I think can carry on with actually building the model. The tail fin needs sorting, etc, the cockpit, engine cover etc...
Does anyone know how the varnish will take to going on top of epoxy? Should I be ok? Or should I grit my teeth and carry on with epoxy?
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Just trying to help, but a further thought, are you using sanding blocks? That pic of the dimples in the mahogany veneer suggests you might not be, and at that stage you should be using something like #240 wet & dry, certainly nothing finer, and don't rub too hard or you'll go through at the edges. You're wasting your time using anything finer until you've done the bulk of the filling/rubbing down work. Make up small shaped sanding blocks from balsa to suit the job, you can work much more delicately with them, and never, ever, ever use paper just held in your fingers. That's the fastest way to ruin most rubbing-down jobs, it's known in some trades as 'finger-f*cking'.
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Has anyone tried this product, it looks very promising for fairly flat surfaces
http://www.clarke-coatings.co.uk/mainframe.html
Also don't aeromodellers use a stretch over latex sheet to get fantastic finishes on epoxy coated wings, that is they apply the epoxy coat then while still wet they stretch a rubberised sheet over it until it is cured, supposedly this levels it out and gives a high gloss finish when the latex is stripped off.
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Hiya, I don't know about the product aeromodellers use. The last time stretch latex products started coming through the post it ended up with severe friction burns, an accident with a marrow, a trip to casualty and a near divorce... ;D
As for sanding blocks - yes of course I use one. I have a 'standard' cork one, and a smaller one made from some sort of rubber which has a bit more 'give' then the cork and I guess it more gentle. It came with the micromesh. I've never sanded anything with just my fingers.
Kayem, the dimples on the fine mahogany are just from where the epoxy seemed to repel against the wood and just made hollows where it wouldn't sit. As I sanded back the rest of the epoxy nice and smooth, these are just the holes left behind.
Last night I had a good look at the epoxy I put on the other day, and it has gone on really well flattening out quite a bit of the nasty bumpy stuff underneath, sort of sitting in the hole and filling them in. I'm quite pleased with it. I'm going to give it a little sanding and flatting back then put another coat on. Seeing how well it has worked there made me think it might be worth putting a coat on the top to fill in the little holes left there on the mahogany (but I still don't know if I could bare it! :D) I'll reserve judgement and a decision until I see the finished result of the bottom of the hull. However I'm guessing that a second coat will go on a LOT smoother and will therefore require less sanding anyway. Maybe..... ;D
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Hi orby1 and all,
I also use several other items as sanding blocks. Foam rubber kneeling pads cut down into various size pieces work well. I either use double sided tape to stick the paper or just fold it up the sides as with normal rubbing blocks. I also use polystyrene foam. Both these items are better at following curves withought sanding off a hard edge.
One other suggestion, which I hesitate to recommend, but it can work. (IT REALLY DEPENDS HOW BRAVE YOU ARE.) If you heat the surface with a hot air blower, you may be able to remove the complete layer and start again. (BET YOU DON'T TRY THIS METHOD THOUGH)
On a completely different subject, I also use sections of the above mentioned foam rubber for boat stands. I cut out a section that fits the underside of the hull where it will contact the varnish finish. I then sandwhich them between two light ply pieces which are glued to the base of the boat stand with about a quarter inch protruding for the hull to rest on. I really must learn how to post pictures. A photo saves a thousand words.
Bob
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It's 2:45am, and I'm sat here at work sanding a little, thinking a little...
I was thinking about how quite a few people have said things like how they'd have given up on this model if it had been theirs, and I thought how I didn't really think it was so bad - then I looked back over the thread, and I realised that there was hardly any stage of building this thing where I knew what the heck I was doing and didn't make a mistake somewhere, or where something didn't go wrong! ;D You've got to laugh....
I've been sat out on my balcony in the snow to escape poisoning myself, I've had to employ tins of pasta sauce to help glue the bottom on because I don't have the right tools, I discovered after months of building and planking that the keel was bent, I put the veneer on the sides the wrong way round, I put the veneer on the top wrong and put water on it which swelled it and sent it all wonky, I painted the red stripe on and the masking tape reacted to the resin..... Shall I go on....?
I don't care, to be honest I find it quite funny! I build models like this because I enjoy the process, the actual building of it, I don't do it for what i get out of it at the end. The longer this goes on and the more I learn, the more laughs us lot on here have along the way, then the better.
I've just sanded down the bottom of the boat using wet and dry, going gradually down to 600 grit, and I'll leave it at that, it's fine. I put two thick coats on with no sanding in between to see what would happen, and it's gone on fine, sanding back very nicely. ;) Even that crappy horrible bit at the bow is very smooth now - just a few little bumps and ripples. I'll post a picture when I can.
Now I'm sanding resin that has actually gone on properly, at last I see what a good method it is. It sands down so quickly and easily I'm tempted to go all over the top side of the boat with it again. Putting it on top of already sanded resin should be fine as it will have nothing to react badly with, it should go on nice and smooth and sand down nice and easy like the bottom did tonight. Another reason for this is that the top's only had one coat, which I have sanded very thin in places, and I want the boat to be safe on the water, able to take the odd knock.
More when I have anything to tell you.
;)
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Orby1,
You have the sense of humour that is vital to this hobby! It took me a while to develop it, I used to launch various troublesome boat bits across the garage which usually meant starting again from scratch, now I just laugh (or cry!) open a beer and get on with it!
Keep up the good work
Ian
PS, dont tell every one about a job that allows hobby work on nights - I have one like that too, trouble is - everyone will want one! ;D
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Thanks Ian! ;) I have got to the 'throwing things about' stage occasionally, but when I get to that point it just means I need to take a break from it and I'm not enjoying it anymore - I just put it back in the cupboard for a few weeks (that's why I'm over a year into this build!) and start again when I get the itch to mess with it again.
As for what I wrote last night...
I've just sanded down the bottom of the boat using 600 grit, and I'll leave it at that, it's fine. Even that crappy horrible bit at the bow is very smooth now - just a few little bumps and ripples.
I'm revising this quote - my suite at work is quite dark and in the half-light of 2:30 am last night I couldn't see that well. When I got the boat home and looked at her in the cold light of day I saw a few more little ripples and that I need to go quite a bit finer with the wet&dry if I want the resin shiny again. At the moment it looks a bit matt where I'd been sanding with 600 grit.
It does look about 100 times better than it did, though - comparing the bottom triangle of ply under the bow (that photo a few posts above), it was a complete mess before, and now you have to actually hold it up to the light to see a few ripples of uneven resin. Things are looking up!! ;)
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you wear a SUIT on nights??????????? ;D
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I have caught the epoxy pox! I put first coat on my drifter hull and its pooled and rippled like a severe case of cellulite! Just goes to show, it doesnt care whose boat it attacks!
Ian
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Hi Orby 1 i have read with interest your report on the build up of Slo Mo Shun as i have just purchased one myself, but i do not get any of the photos posted wich is a shame as i need all the help i can get .I am a relative newcomer to model boat building and thought i would try something in wood but it seems i may have bitten off more than i can chew,any help you can give whith photos would be greatly appreciated.
Regards
David L
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Hi Orby
You have great perseverance
My mate has done lots of epoxy and it comes up good, but he does several coats. Sands and coats again.
What he does do is apply it with old credit cards, or those very thick plasticy/waxy business cards. This way he fills the hollows before sanding back again.
There is another thread on here on a turtle back build. The finish is great and he says how he did it.
Check it out. it sounds simple
I quote
...The finish was achieved by rubbing down the planking with firstly 80 grit Dry, then 120 grit dry and then 180 grit dry. Then 3 coats of epoxy resin was applied and allowed to harden for 7 days each coat. Each coat was rubbed down dry with 180 grit. The last coat was rubbed with 400 dry. Then 2 coats of automotive 2 pack clear were applied and that's it. The gloss is straight from the gun & has not been polished at all. It is very important to allow the epoxy resin to harden fully and it's easy to do in Australia when the temperatures are so high. I'm also in the fortunate position of having access to 2 pack automotive paints which do not deteriorate or lose their gloss like the Acrylics.
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Hi All.
David L, you can see pics if you register, its very simple to do just follow the link at the top of the page.
My own Slo-Mo build is going in fits and starts, but I have a deadline of 2 weeks to finish it now!
Have a look at my thread "Another Slo-Mo-Shun" I used photobucket for my picture upload so they will show even if you don't register.
Everyone here has loads of really good advice so its worth picking a few brains BEFORE you start building.
Orby is a top man and very patient.. ;) Learn from him....may the force be with etc etc!! ;D
Good luck. its a great build subject.
Mark
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I have caught the epoxy pox! I put first coat on my drifter hull and its pooled and rippled like a severe case of cellulite! Just goes to show, it doesnt care whose boat it attacks!
Ian
It happened with me on a 1970s Freya 36 I am do up. First coat went on fine. Left it for a week, rubbed it down with wet and dry. Applied 2nd coat and it rippled and pooled.
The only thing I can put it down to is that it was a very damp day and I think that the boat may still have been slightly damp.
Richard ;)
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I have found out that warming the hull and epoxy to over 20deg c sorted my problem out. It went on fine.
Ian
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Hi everyone,
This is just a quickie to say I'm still alive and well! I FINALLY moved house in mid February after about 18 months' messing about, and now we're in I have an absolute mountain of work to do. An entire garden (untouched for years) needed chopping down so we can start again, the house needs new bathroom, new kitchen, decorating entirely, new carpets all way through, damp in the lounge sorting, a flat roof to be re-done, etc etc.....! Blimey we really have our work cut out.
Suffice it to say, this is why I haven't been on here for months! Sadly the Slo Mo has been put on the back boiler in favour of other boring crap. Believe me even the thought of sorting out bumpy epoxy appeals more than some of the jobs I have coming up over the next few months, but they need doing more.
Anyway, I'll be back. This is just a temporary lull!
All the best, Julian. ;)
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Hi Julian
Nice to hear from you mate! Good to hear your move went ok in the end...sounds like you have the list of things I did on my old place...good excuse to buy all those new power tools though...if you need advice on bathrooms, kitchens etc let me know! :)
My Slo-mo was on hold...now finally onto the last knockings...paintwork done...sprayed the red after spendin a long time masking up etc, next project will not involve painting, I hate it!!
I now have a pile of plastic kits to make...a variety of MTB's, MASB's and an E boat.....after building I'm arranging a mock battle after in my bathtub...sure it will all end in tears :D
Well good luck with the DIY....only bit of free advice I can really offer is "one room at a time"!!.
Regards
Mark
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Crikey!
Hi there Mayhemers, it's been a while! Just to let you know I'm still alive. I've been watching you all and lurking around in the background, following peoples' builds etc, but over a year's passed since I was last able to post on my boat thread!!!! :'( It's just unfair!!!!! I'm surprised the thread's still even here to be honest. :-\
Well, things are looking a lot more shipshape with our house and I'm starting to see a time coming up when I might actually have some free time to do what I like instead of what I have to do. You never know, that funny boat-shaped thing that's covered in dust on the shelf in the spare room might just see water one day after all.
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All the best things in life are worth waiting for.
Your posts have been great. I have learned a lot from following your posts, your trials and tribulations and the advice you have been given from others.
I look forward to the next instalments.
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welcome back orby. O0
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It's good to let the wood season gently..... ;)
Martin
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Yes a very big welcome back Orbster.
I like yourself am stuck with things I need to do rather than like to.
Roll on retirement I say !!!
Mogs
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Nice build one tip when using epoxy allways spread it on using an old credit card or similar ,never ever use a brush or it will go on too thick and dimple :o.Im currently building a gas version of a classic thunderboat (roundnose) its a zippkits rocket powered by a fully modded zenoah 260 pum petrol engine.heres a cpl of pics of mine and of what the finnished model will look like apart from the colours of course.
Mart
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Sorry for dragging this up from the bowls of the celler, but I an dying to know what happend.
After reading the first 10 pages of this challenge, I am felling a bit lost that it just stopped :'(
The builder has overcome all forms of obstacles thus far, it would be nice to know if he did not let it get the better of him and that he finnished the build.
Not expecting the build to resume as it has been thus far. Just an explanation and prehaps a photo?
As i said, sorry for draging this up again, but as a new commer to the forum (and boat building) I have been using a few days to go through some of the more "in detail" subjects.
Some of which are a bit long in the tooth as it turns out.
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Any reason I cannot see pictures.. Can only view one of real boat in dock. In properties this is jpeg, all other photo properties type are unknown. Regards
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no idea as all my pics are jpeg?
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Sorry for dragging this up from the bowls of the celler, but I an dying to know what happend.
After reading the first 10 pages of this challenge, I am felling a bit lost that it just stopped :'(
The builder has overcome all forms of obstacles thus far, it would be nice to know if he did not let it get the better of him and that he finnished the build.
Not expecting the build to resume as it has been thus far. Just an explanation and prehaps a photo?
As i said, sorry for draging this up again, but as a new commer to the forum (and boat building) I have been using a few days to go through some of the more "in detail" subjects.
Some of which are a bit long in the tooth as it turns out.
Hello all!
I just thought I'd have another look at Mayhem and at my old thread, for old time's sake!
I feel pretty down about it, to be honest, quite sad. <:( I really enjoyed building the boat and building up the thread, and when I moved house I just got swamped with work - heavy DIY and gardening. We really did move into a wreck of a place and we're still sorting it out. I've had literally zero time for boat building.
I took the old Slo Mo down from the top shelf a couple of weeks ago and slowly, sadly stroked that dimpled hull, wiping off a thick layer of dust. She was calling to me to finish her! It'll take a MAJOR injection of enthusiasm to take up the build and finish her as that epoxy really wrecked things, but I do fully intend to carry it on.
As for the pictures apparently disappearing, I'm not sure about that. Maybe as I haven't used my photobucket account in so long they have deleted some of the pictures in it, I honestly don't know.
I'm sorry for leaving you all hanging on, I just don't have any time at the moment for boats. I've been rebuilding an entire staircase...
One day I'll be back. ;)
Orb.x
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Dont you will have me in tears next {-)
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Dont you will have me in tears next {-)
I know! {-)
I'm serious though - I'd love to get the old Slo Mo out and carry on with it, I really do come over all gloomy when I see it covered in dust and neglected!
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Thanks for your postings. I started my build last winter but because of a busy summer I didn't get back to it until now. Your posts help me with a question I had about the engine compartment.
I understand the problem you had with epoxy. I suggest the you remove it using straight edge or scraper rather than a sander. It will go very quickly, with less damage to the wood and with less mess. I use a utility knife blade but you can get larger scrapers from a woodworking store.
I was talking to Doug Campbell, the manufacturer of the classic shovel nose hydro. He told me that the Billings Slo-mo-shon IV won't get up on a plane because the angle of the sponsons is wrong. I attached a photo to show how I changed the angle using Bondo. I would really like it to do more than plow around in the water like the videos I have seen on the net.
Attached is a photo of my progress. I stained the wood to make it darker, applied a 2 oz fiberglass cloth, gave it three or four coats of epoxy (sanding between coats) and gave it the first coat of several coats of polyurethane, finishing with 600 grit wet sand paper, rubbing compound and polish. The red color will be the last to go on.
If you are trying to make your model to look like the original boat, there's a site that I found that has great pictures of the restores Slo-mo-shun IV: http://thunderboats.smugmug.com/gallery/1963590_iDwTb#99836036_Ufhu9.
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Hello Orby:
I'm in the process of building the Billing "So-Mo-Shun 4" & am finding it quite a challenge. I'm an experienced modeller but the instructions are rather sparse. As a new member to the forum I was looking at your "build-up photos" last week & went back to them yesterday & today & only found blank spaces. I was looking forward to the details regarding the cutting out of the top of hull & how the driver compartment/engine cowling all fit together. I think your photos could have been helpful.
Is there any chance that they will be posted again?
Tom
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Looks like there's a problem with Orby's pictures on MyImageHub... the links are still there in the post but I guess not
on MyImageHub for some reason.
I use Photobucket, they seem very reliable up till now....
Taking of pictures, J found these of Slo-Mo and thought was a fantastic model.
After about 4 photos I realised it's the real thing! :embarrassed:
http://thunderboats.smugmug.com/gallery/1963590_iDwTb#99836036_Ufhu9
(http://thunderboats.smugmug.com/photos/99836194_DuReG-M.jpg)