Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: alan colson on September 15, 2008, 04:38:30 pm
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This weekend there was a Rockers Revival of some sort along the South Coast, the A24 was like a racetrack the idiots showing no respect for other road users. At one stage having just overtaken another car I saw a large group of motorcycles coming up fast behind me. I was indicating left to pull back into the nearside lane and bikers doing what must have been 100 MPH passed me on both sides. My personal opinion of these people riding these big bikes is that they should be priced off the road. £1000 a year road tax and very high insurance premiums to pay for scraping them up off the road.
Alan
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I wonder why we are constantly enjoined to 'Think Bike' when the bikers themselves (or most of them I see) seem hell bent on doing their best to collide with other road users by dangerous overtaking snd exceeding the speed limit.
Funnily enough I've just returned from holiday in Colorado and Wyoming where I saw lots of motor cyclists mostly Harleys who rode very responsibly. I was followed for about 30 miles on a mountain road by a group of about 12 who maintained a realistic distance and did not try to pass until I turned off. Eminently sensible.
JMO
Doug
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Why price responsible bikers off the road for the sake of an irresponsible few?
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I agree, target the delinquents rather than spread the grief.
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Come on guys be fair, so every time I see a Subaru Imprezza driven by a teenage lunatic in a similar fashion I am entitled to think that all car drivers should be considered in the same manner?
Deal with the individuals irrespective of the vehicle they are driving not some ridiculous blanket approach because you have preconcieved predudices. I have driven motorcycles now for thirty years, am a member of Rospa and hold a Gold standard advanced motorcycle test certificate so I speak from a good deal of experience and probabaly more than the vast majority of car drivers.
There are idiots on bikes and there are idiots in cars, lets deal with them all appropriately.
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like all things in life, the minority give the MAJORITY a very bad name.
i agree with subculture that a motor cycle is a very safe and enjoyable form of transport, if ridden in a responsible manner, and the usual culprits are the "born again banker's" , oooops sorry, freudian slip there, i ment bikers. {-) who think that now they can afford such high powered machines they are immune from the usual laws of the road. :D >>:-(
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In nearly 30 years as a motorcyclist and having ridden everything from a moped to very fast superbikes I have had 5 "accidents". One was caused by an irresponsible idiot leaving diesel all over the road and the other four were all car/van drivers who weren't looking where they were going >>:-(
Tax for idiots who refuse to look before pulling away at a junction and chavs who drive cars with stereos more powerful than their engines should be £10,000 IMHO >>:-(
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Judging by the amount of idiot bikers on the road this Sunday, they certainly did not seem like the minority to me, there seemed to be hundreds of them.
Alan
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I tend to disagree with NHP on this one, most of the 'born again bikers are usually older blokes who survived the mad testoreroned youthful stage and so have regard for their own mortality. From my experience, being a biker, I find most of the irresponsible biking is down to youthful madness, young bucks trying to prove themselves and impress their mates... all young men appear to go through this stage. The problem is they have to do something dangerous to really earn themselves so called respect and if you give them a two wheeled missile or powerful car or indeed anything else that is life threatning, they will thrash it to within an inch of their lives and risk everyone elses just for the hell of it.
I spoke to one such rider recently who reckoned if you went past a speed camera at speeds of 150mph and the like, it couldn't get you as it is unable to take your pic at these speeds... could be bull.... but you never know. They even go to the lengths of wrapping the camera in clingfilm if they want to use a certain stretch of road so they can race all day whilst the camera flashes its head off with zero pics logged. These are not the actions of older blokes who have spent their hard eaned dosh on a dream bike, they are the actions of young hotheads.
If they really wanted to do something about it, they should police the roads better and maybe disqualify riders more readily for what is considered dangerous driving.... and crush the bikes! Anything you do on a bike which is not within the road safety act should be considered dangerous, if not to others then to yourself!
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HAVING AGO AT BIKE RIDERS.....I DON'T BELIEVE IT !!!! TAKE A LOOK ON THE ROADS TODAY IDIOTS EVERYWHERE IN CAR,LORRIES,VANS & BIKES,RACING AROUND AS IF THE OWN THE ROADS/CAR RAGE ON THE INCREASE...IT'S NOT WHAT THEIR DRIVING BUT WHO'S DRIVING...WHERE AS US PEADESTRIANS SET A MUCH MORE CIVILISED EXAMPLE.
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BAN bad drivers Oh dear Oh dear
OK watch the tv and there is a program POLICE CAMERA ACTION and the drivers they find still driving with a ban !
Conviction, crush = deterant IMHO
Me I have a clean driving record Motor Cycle ADI HGV 'STGO' and PSV, though PSV & HGV are not in use (DVLA notified) due to a heart problem some years ago.
R,
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Hmm..it's an old cherry, this one. I hold several driving licences for various classes of vehicles as does catengineman, and during my years on the roads I reckon I've seen most things. There are dangerous drivers driving all classes of vehicles, not just motorcyclists, but car drivers, truckers, bus drivers..all sorts. I'd put money on the fact that all of us have at some time, probably a few years ago in several cases, have been as guilty of doing silly things on the roads as the bikers the original post was about. I have, I admit it...I've done the magic 'ton' across the A259 between Eastbourne and Bexhill many times, on a Norton Dominator SS, done it in a C type Jaguar (as a passenger that time) done it in my street rod many times...I've been guilty as hell of exceeding the speed limits whilst I was a trucker, we used to think nothing of putting the hammer down as soon as we hit a straight bit of road and keeping it there (what's a speed limiter?) and I guess we all have done likewise.
I've also seen some bl**dy outright dangerous driving by all classes of driver in all classes of vehicle...it's not just bikers, guys...we are all guilty of speeding and doing silly things at times.
I was stopped by a policeman last week in Heathfield ( a little village in Sussex) driving at 34mph in a 30 zone in a council van. I got a well deserved lecture from the man, was told I'd be receiving an official caution, and then told to leave...at a respectable speed.
Hit those that drive recklessly and hit them hard...not those who break the speed limits by a few miles an hour, but those who insist on driving with careless abandon and totally ignore other road users. Bikers, public service vehicle drivers, car drivers (young and old), truckers...whatever they may be, hit those who deserve to be hit, but don't tar every driver/biker with the same brush.
That's my two pennyworth....
Rich
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O0
I think thats what I meant to say
O0
R,
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Same as your goodself, my licences are as clean now as the day they were issued to me, but I have been lucky a couple of times. Since I took over driving a sweeper ( 4mph in sweep mode for 80% of my working day) I seem to drive a lot slower than I used to...the girlfriend is always calling me an silly old fool and tells me I should be buying a Volvo. :o
Rich
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Catch them and crush the bikes, now I like that, that would have taken a good few hundred off the road yesterday. What I did not say earlier is that the A23 London to Brigton road seems to have had the same problem yesterday according to people I work with. I just experianced the A24 myself. There where so many bikes involved that the police could never cope.
Alan
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Yep, we've all done daft things and the only reason we are having this conversation is because we survived... and learned something. I am not claiming we should just crush bikes.. I love bikes and own one but what do you do about a problem with maniac drivers/ riders. It's no good just fining them or taking their licences away, they just stump up the fine and drive/ride anyway. If each time they were caught they lost their very means of demonstrating their prowess the message must at some time start to get through. Mr nutter on his dream bike or in his stereo powered muscle mahine would really hate it if not only were he to lose his machine to the crusher but that if he were made to go along and forced to push the button himself.
If not this, then what is the answer... has anyone out there got one cos this is the only one I can come up with!
To be frank, it will never change, it has always been thus, and young bloods will always want to push the envelope no matter what the means available.
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Makes good sense that...back in the days of "naughty" radio, our local man had his own way of dishing out punishment if you were caught. Your radio and everything that went with it was confiscated and you had the choice...take your punishment the legal way or his way. His way involved all your (sometimes) expensive radio equipment being laid out in a line on the floor and they you would be invited to destroy it. With a rather large hammer...
Man, does it ever hurt when you have to smash up a Yauesu FT707 complete with amplifier, mike, 11metre beam aerial and rotator and everything else you had.
Perhaps if the 'young bloods' were invited to destroy their souped up Citroen Saxo/Mitsubishi/Subaru/Nova/whatever/ it may make them think twice before they give the thing the wellie again? Or would it? I guess in many examples the answer would be "NO"...in the right places (and from the right people) you can buy these things for a song nowadays, so maybe it wouldn't be a deterrent.
How about being 'invited' to join the Army for a few months every time you got caught doing very silly things on the road? Now that may make a few of them think...an old RSM with the bristling walrus type moustache under their nose would be enough to put the sh*ts up an awful lot of the 'young bloods'. Worth a thought?
Rich
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Catch them and crush the bikes
Nah, crushing cars is a much better idea, more room for bikes {-)
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A few months in the ARMY ! why not the NAVY that way when their time is up the should be in a different country {-) see if they can make their own way back.
Mind the attitude from some of late would be "apathy" am I bovered state will pay me for a new gizmo anyhow cos I m disadvantaged or suffer ADHAD yada yada yada
R, no win no win comes to mind. but I could have fun crushing a few lumps of crud
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sorry, and yes, sheerline, I agree with you about born again bikers. I was doing, what I was saying we shouldn't..tarring all with the same brush, and I worded it badly
What I ment to say was those who could never afford a bike in their young and reckless days, now taking to the road with a motorcycle far too powerfull for them to handle.
In my day, many moons ago when my BSA RGS was but a couple of years old, the traffic was nowhere near what it is today, and the bikes weren't half as powerfull. you could get away with recklessness, and nothing has really changed with the motorcycle fraternity just yearning for a little speed and exitement.
If we think back.......we were just the same.
sadly though, now there is just too much traffic on the road to be reckless with, and the problem is much more noticable.
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BAN, BAN, BAN. Thats all I seem to hear these days, Ban bikes because of bad rider's Ban hand guns because of one total nutter. Ban knives because people get stabbed.
I carry a lock knife on my belt whilst at work PSO spots it and tries to give me grief. I ignore him and carry on into the house I am working in. 10 mins later PLOD arrives to back up PSO, threatened with arrest for having a bladed weapon in public. I take both to the back off my van and remove two 24" handsaws, two claw hammers, one club hammer and ask the question when is a knife not a knife? WHEN ITS A TOOL. Both walk away muttering as if demented.
What ever happened to being responsible for ones own actions. I would personally ban nothing just severely punish people who misuse everyday articles and perpetrate crime.
Rant over. Birthday today wife has bought me a selection of good bottled ales so will pop off and open one or maybe two.
Colin H.
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Happy birthday O0
dont want to ban
just crush the egos and the stuff to teach lessons
R,
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Crush their cycle's a very big yes, same with untaxed and uninsured cars, no excuse straight to the crusher.
When you ban something its like society has a collective responsibility rather than making the offender responsable for their actions.
Colin H.
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Colin H
sounds familiar, working as a maintenance techie airside at the airport I am happily allowed to carry knives, hammers, chisels, drills, saws etc. through security but I am not allowed to take a fork through to eat my lunch with, apparently it could be used as a weapon ??? :-\
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BAN, BAN, BAN. Thats all I seem to hear these days, Ban bikes because of bad rider's Ban hand guns because of one total nutter. Ban knives because people get stabbed.
I carry a lock knife on my belt whilst at work PSO spots it and tries to give me grief. I ignore him and carry on into the house I am working in. 10 mins later PLOD arrives to back up PSO, threatened with arrest for having a bladed weapon in public. I take both to the back off my van and remove two 24" handsaws, two claw hammers, one club hammer and ask the question when is a knife not a knife? WHEN ITS A TOOL. Both walk away muttering as if demented.
What ever happened to being responsible for ones own actions. I would personally ban nothing just severely punish people who misuse everyday articles and perpetrate crime.
Rant over. Birthday today wife has bought me a selection of good bottled ales so will pop off and open one or maybe two.
Colin H.
A friend is a 747 pilot and afew years back had his toenail scissors removed at security. He said he wasnt asking for special priviledges, but he does have a large axe in the cockpit with him so it seems a bit pointless removing his scissors.
In the event of a fire or smoke coming through the bulkheads they use the axe to find out WTF is going on.
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BAN, BAN, BAN. Thats all I seem to hear these days, Ban bikes because of bad rider's Ban hand guns because of one total nutter. Ban knives because people get stabbed.
I carry a lock knife on my belt whilst at work PSO spots it and tries to give me grief. I ignore him and carry on into the house I am working in. 10 mins later PLOD arrives to back up PSO, threatened with arrest for having a bladed weapon in public. I take both to the back off my van and remove two 24" handsaws, two claw hammers, one club hammer and ask the question when is a knife not a knife? WHEN ITS A TOOL. Both walk away muttering as if demented.
What ever happened to being responsible for ones own actions. I would personally ban nothing just severely punish people who misuse everyday articles and perpetrate crime.
Rant over. Birthday today wife has bought me a selection of good bottled ales so will pop off and open one or maybe two.
Colin H.
A friend is a 747 pilot and afew years back had his toenail scissors removed at security. He said he wasnt asking for special priviledges, but he does have a large axe in the cockpit with him so it seems a bit pointless removing his scissors.
In the event of a fire or smoke coming through the bulkheads they use the axe to find out WTF is going on.
Ye Gods...if I saw smoke or fire in the cockpit I'd be first out the door. I wouldn't have an axe under the seat, I'd have a parachute....
Gone in sixty seconds...that'd be me. O0
Rich
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hi guys, as some people know i go on the back of my dads moterbike and its great... i have been around bikes all my life and i have been going on a moterbike since i was 18months old i was sat on the tank and my dad was riding up and down the coldasack behind our house and i was taken to nursery on the back of the moterbike and i have been on the back ever since i think i might get a moterbike when i turn 17 and pass my test...
hannah :) :)
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Go for it Hannah O0
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I am both a car driver and a born again biker. I have just got back from a six mile trip thru town to B&Q and back, not in the car, but on a rather large bike (in fact a massive, unmissable bike). On my little jaunt there must have been at least a half a dozen people in cars who came out of side roads, pulling out in front of me, and forcing me to drop anchor very quickly. I have lost count of the number of car drivers that don't indicate at all, going left or right, it seems they expect everyone to be clairvoyant with regards to their actions.
I think you will find that bike riders and ex bike riders are some of the best drivers on the road, mainly because they have to have the reactions of a s**thouse rat to avoid the idiots driving cars, and we keep an eye on the road much further ahead than normal car drivers (it seems their length of vision is the end of their bonnet) because if we didn't, the idiots would certainly have us off our transport.
I am not a speed freak, but can be if needed, and I only use the throttle excessively to get away from idiot car drivers. I just leave them behind in their own little cocoon of loud music and 'I'm the greatest driver in the world', a typical brain in neutral and finger up their a**e model.
I am not making excuses for bad bikers letting of steam and ripping up other motorists, but car drivers should also look at how they drive and treat us two wheeled riders. So next time one comes past you at a fair rate of knots, don't think 'what a speed freak', instead think, 'am I doing something wrong to make him want to get away from my presence so fast'.
It works both ways, treat one with respect, the opposite will follow suit. I will hold up traffic to let motorists out of side roads, do you? Or are you one of the 'I'm on this bit of road, and it's mine, and no one gets in front of me'? If you are, whats the bet you have a lot of bikes speeding past you, trying to get as much distance between you and themselves.
John
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As I said in my first post those biker idiots on the road that weekend had not a care for themselves or any other road user, when I was signalling to pull back over to the nearside lane and they undertook me I had a small trailer on at the time so they had double the signals to see, that of the car which has high level lights and that of the trailer which had a lighting board on it that had only been purchased new that very morning so was working perfectly.
I would have had no sympathy with any of them had they come a cropper.
Alan
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My biking happened a long time ago, when there was nothing like the same traffic, but I was always aware that other road users were basically uncaring about either themselves or anybody else, however many wheels were involved. This was about the time that a publicity hound call Killroy-Silk tried to ban motor bikes altogether.
If a biker wants to survive, he or she has to be aware that they are vulnerable, standard road furniture is not as user friendly as that around a race track, and that there are other road users about, and drive accordingly. Most do, but there are some who think that they can accelerate out of trouble, that they can maneuver better and stop in a more nimble manner, so that makes it OK to ignore petty restrictions like speed limits. Since for the most part they only have normal human reaction times, they are proactive Darwin Award candidates. Unfortunately, the people they injure were probably expecting approaching vehicles to approach in a law abiding manner. Sadly, there are also plenty of car drivers (and truck, and bus, and taxi) who assume that the rest of the world is looking out for their best interests, and will get out of the way.
Bogstandard mentions his epic trip to B&Q - the same would probably happen if he was driving a car, it has for me doing similar trips in my car, which is a sit up and beg Renault and red, really quite visible.
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Crotch rocket riders = Organ Donors O0
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there seem to be a lot of very angry young men on here today....................
grow up,
dont blame somone else for your own prejudices
live and let live.
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If there is room to pass on the left hand side (your nearside, not mine) then you are hogging the white line and this leads to agressive driving by others, not only Bikers, [5 clear feet is not the left hand side],
The reason biking is regaining in popularity is the sense of freedom especially from traffic queues in peak hours, of course this annoys vehicle drivers and so many pull over to the right to prevent such freedoms of others, a regular occurance on motorways.
A little more consideration for others would mean shorter queues for the car drivers [cause there would't be bikes in the queue,]
But majority of drivers still don't accept this, Reginald Molehusband fraternity.
Tug
Volvo Driver, HGV, PSV, Road Roller, Dozer, and a Biker since serving an aprenticeship with the last of the true British motorcycle manufacturers days, and still alive to show that speed alone don't kill, But the buzz you get when pulling away from smar* ar** jonny in his supped up BM is just a GOOD feelin!
if you do it right!
(dropped it whilst stationary twice, Run into three times, two were female drivers, never hit anything bigger than a rabbit, had a few near misses though, there again had a bump or two in the Bus¿
And the Volvo tops 140 MPH, (someone told me officer)
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It would seem that a lot of the arguments on this forum are caused because people do not read all of the previous post, or if they do they do not read them fully and correctly. I was signalling and pulling back to the nearside having overtaken another car, this does not mean I am hogging the white line and leaving room on the left hand side (nearside) but I am driving in a sensable manner made dangerous only by the IDIOTS on the bikes.
Alan
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OK chaps, putting the moderators cap on for a minute, can we please try to keep the discussion open and friendly and perhaps we can all gain a bit of insight into the others point of view?
I think going back to the original post the motorcyclists in question werre undoubtedly idiots who will unfortunately one day end not only thier own lives but possibly some one elses as well. I have unfortunately lived all my live with predudices against motorcyclists yet I hold a driving licence of a standard higher than most car drivers. I've got broad shoulders but I do object to being tarred with the same brush ::)
All I ask is that you do not consider all motorcyclists to be of the same attitude, for myself, I hold back so as not to intimidate, then accelerate briskly past a vehicle I am overtaking when I see the appropriate opportunity that does not require me to break the speed limit to complete. A quick life saver before pulling in well in front, without using brakes, once again to avoid upsetting the driver of the vehicle being overtaken.
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I agree, I have always found that if I see a biker coming up behind and I indicate to the left on the straight, he will ALWAYS wave thanks as he zipps past...gratefull that I've seen him and heped him pass safely.
It doesn't hurt me to do this and I wave back. But also, I've one one or two occasions been scared out of my wits as a biker comes at me round a tight bend too fast with his biike on his side of the road and his head on mine!
Just like car drivers, there are good bike riders (most of them) and there are total nutters!(minority)
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I hold back so as not to intimidate, then accelerate briskly past a vehicle I am overtaking when I see the appropriate opportunity that does not require me to break the speed limit to complete. A quick life saver before pulling in well in front, without using brakes, once again to avoid upsetting the driver of the vehicle being overtaken.
if I see a biker coming up behind and I indicate to the left on the straight, he will wave thanks as he zipps past...gratefull that I've seen him and heped him pass safely.
It doesn't hurt me to do this and I wave back.
I agree with these comments, but the motorcyclists I was talking about on this occasion had been 200 - 300 yards behind me when I started the manouvere and undertaking me before I had time to complete it, had they been doing the national speed limit of 70mph it would not have caused a problem as I was doing 60mph myself, the problem arose because of the exsesive speeds of 100mph at least that these riders had been doing.
Alan
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Alan, I don't think anyone can defend the actions of the idiots you encounterd on that day, it's very scary stuff when it happens and I have even had these actions perpetrated upon me even when I have been riding my own motorcycle, let alone my car. It's just a shame the police weren't there to see it but unfortunately 99 times out of a 100 they never will be.
Every summer we notice a 'new' biker racing through our 30mph village, they obviously live locally and have bought a new bike and spend their time tearing through here at breakneck speed around all the tight blind bends. They are usually young blokes donned in all the racing leathers designed to match the bike colour scheme and see the whole road as a challenge with complete disregard to their own safety and that of pedestriains and other road users.
Each year it's the same and each year, my neighbour and I see them roar past and we say "there goes another idiot who won't see the summer out" and sometimes we're right. The last maniac to die here was truly a nutcase and ended up running smack bang headlong into the iron counterweights of a tractor negotiating the tight bend at the top of the hill. It could so easily have been a family car full of people instead of a tractor. These are the very bikers who should have their bikes crushed and sent off on a week long training course (at their own expense) before they can kill themselves or anyone else.
The first key to survival on the roads is ride/drive defensively chaps and just like fighter pilots...live in your mirror!
I might add that this should apply to the numerous car drivers who behave in exactly the same way and indeed they are more numerous than the bikers and have an even greater potential for destruction.
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Ooh Alan;
I did not alledge that you were driving on the white line,
But!
The speed limit when towing a trailer not on the motorway is 50 not 60
had they been doing the national speed limit of 70mph it would not have caused a problem as I was doing 60mph myself, the problem arose
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The speed limit when towing a trailer not on the motorway is 50 not 60
Not true...
60 MPH is permissible when driving towing a trailer on a dual carriageway unless a lower speed limit is in force. (and the gross weight of vehicle and trailer is less than 7.5 tonnes).
Regards, Malc
(A caravan owner and Member of the IAM in two countries)
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Anybody approaching another vehicle from behind has control of their own destiny. The would-be overtaker has a vastly better view of the prospective overtakee than the overtakee has of him, and the overtakee should be spending most of his timme looking through the window at the front.
To attempt to pass on the nearside, unless traffic filtering is happening, especially a vehicle signalling the intention to move left, puts you in contravention of the laws of nature. Mother nature is a very stern judge, believes in non-custodial maiming or death instead of fines or warnings, and does not allow appeals, first offence notwithstanding.
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Been sitting back and following this thread with interest. I'm a biker here in Canada. I ride , what is commomly called here, a "bagger" or cruiser"....some say an old fart's bike. Our licencing requires a seperate licence for motorcycles with the appropriate testing . It is also strongly recommend that a motorcycle safety and training cource be taken at one of the numerous, offered at local colleges. Successful completeion of the beginner's and advanced course results in signifcantly reduced insurance rates.
My question is, does Britain, or Europe for that matter, have the same or similar requirement?
We do have a few nutteres on crotch rockets, but the irresponsible driving style is very limited. Far more are sane riders. The "cruisers" are more usually older folk who want to live another day and aren't trying to prove anything. Consequently they tend to be better riders and more aware of whats around them than most car drivers.
John
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We do indeed have separate testing for any two wheelers that are more than a moped, but the big problem is that a great many people have the idea that having passed the test, what they have learnt has no relevance, and behave accordingly. Two wheels or more. Not the majority, but enough to start generalisations.
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I must be one sad so and so?
Not only do I build model boats, but have a campervan, car, and motorcycle.
I just think that as a matter of fact you do get the "I know it all, get out of my way" people in any sector of interest (including model boats) shame really, society as we know it I think!!
John C
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We do indeed have separate testing for any two wheelers that are more than a moped, but the big problem is that a great many people have the idea that having passed the test, what they have learnt has no relevance, and behave accordingly. Two wheels or more. Not the majority, but enough to start generalisations.
I understand what you say. Its too bad we can't legislate out stupidity, only the results of it.
John
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Well Malcolm,
I stand corrected :embarrassed:
When towing a trailer you are restricted to 60mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 50mph on other roads provided, of course, that lower limits are not in operation.
Vehicle / trailer combinations over 7500kg combined MAM are further restricted to 50mph on dual carriageways.
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John C, your not sad mate but one of many O0
I drive a car (yes a 4X4) I tow various trailor and on occasion I get to tow a caravan I also ride motorcycles (when my bro lets me) (Spanner wont) so the motor cycle is a Goldwing I love it.
R,