Model Boat Mayhem

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Bungie 247 on September 22, 2008, 04:31:55 PM

Title: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 22, 2008, 04:31:55 PM
Hi peeps, I don't know if anyone cares but I have just started on the Caldercraft Imara after a break from modelling for several years. I have decided to share my experiences with anyone who cares to follow at - www.imarablog.org

Any tips, comments or constructive critisism are welcome, particularily if you have built the Imara yourself.

Regards, Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 22, 2008, 06:09:37 PM

Hi Martin..... (is there an echo in here?!)

Nice bloc ! (That still doesn't sound like polite language yet does it?!!!)
Please notify us of bloc updates by adding a post here too......

Martin - Admin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: a3nige on September 22, 2008, 07:12:38 PM
Looking forward to watching this one.   O0
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 22, 2008, 08:07:14 PM

Hi Bungie 247

I too, have purchased the Imara, but am waiting on new hull as it arrived fractured. I shall be following your build with interest. It does look a great model to build and there are several write ups on her, which I have collected.

Welcome to Modelboatmayhem. We would be interested in any pictures of your build, as you go along, if you could throw a few this way, to encourage visitors to your site.  8)

All the best

ken
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 22, 2008, 08:53:17 PM
Well what a welcome, I honestly thought that no one would be interested in the ramblings of an amateur model maker like me!!!! How wrong you can be   :D

Of course I shall keep this forum aware of my progress, mainly because I will probably be asking for lots of advice   {-)

@ Ken - Sorry to hear about your hull. Was it the twin or single screw? Where was the split and who did you get it from? I hope you can make a start soon.

@ Martin - I allready have a link to this site from my Blog and as I mentioned above I will post here often.

@ a3nige - Are you sure? Hehehe, you obviously have never seen me in action with a craft knife or paint brush, or maybe it is the comedy aspect you are looking forward to (cue the Benny Hill Show theme tune)  :D
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 22, 2008, 08:59:55 PM
By the way, who visited my blog using Windows 98 and IE5 ?     Ahhhhhhhhhhggghhhhhh please tell me that you don't order stuff with your credit card online from that machine, please :o
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 22, 2008, 09:11:50 PM


Hi Bungie

I have the twin screw version from Cornwall model boats ( Via Jotika).  It seems there aren't any new hulls in the UK and it has to come from Germany.

The damage was caused by the delivery man dropping it on it's end and splitting the Skeg section. You can see daylight up through the stern. I haven't opened any of the packets just in case they wanted the whole box back again.  :(

I won't be doing a build blog on this one as they are time consuming, and I already have the Waverley Blog to complete, so your build came at the right time. Best of luck with your build. I'm sure the guys on here will answer any queries you might have.

ken


Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 22, 2008, 09:24:16 PM
Hi Kenny, bloody delivery drivers. Yours is not the first tale of woe on that subject let me tell you. :(

I hope that when you do make a start that you will let me know so that we can swap ideas.

Are you going for electric (like me) or steam?

Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 22, 2008, 09:26:43 PM
Sorry to hear of the damage Ken. Jotika don't cast the hulls themselves as their premises are not suitable for GRP moulding work. Hopefully it will be replaced quickly.

Martin - I did the original review model of Imara for Model Boats magazine way back. if you want a copy of the review I'm happy to email it to you.

Colin
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 22, 2008, 09:57:32 PM
@ Colin - Wow, so many nice peeps in here. Yes,  please email anything that may be remotely relevant to my build. It will all be much appriciated :)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 22, 2008, 10:55:22 PM
Sent Martin, hope you find it useful and I wish you every success with your build. It makes a lovely model.

Colin
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bunkerbarge on September 23, 2008, 08:44:20 AM
Bungie,

Have a look through the builds we have going on the forum at the moment and you will see that we cover just about every level of skill and experience.  We can all learn from each other as regards specific models as well as techniques so feel free to ask away and share your own build.  This is a particularly popular model so I'm sure you will generate a lot of interest and get plently of input.

Maybe a steam plant would be a bit ambitious for  you but I would seriously consider having a cold water vapour generator to give you a smoke effect.  Very easy but very effective and that bit easier to incorporate in your thinking from the start.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: barryfoote on September 23, 2008, 09:05:54 AM
Trust Bunkerbarge to post a photo of a REAL boat. O0 O0

I just love that picture..
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 23, 2008, 01:03:11 PM
Hi Kenny, *horrible* delivery drivers. Yours is not the first tale of woe on that subject let me tell you. :(

I hope that when you do make a start that you will let me know so that we can swap ideas.

Are you going for electric (like me) or steam?

Martin.

Hi Martin/ Colin.

 About time I made enquiries. It's been over two week now. I have two motors from another member on here called 'Bosun'. They look the size of Robbe 1000's and are very quiet, but powerful. Bollard pull test here I come.  ;D

I also have Colin's excellent write up. It's the original from the Model Boat magazine in 1989, and what swayed me into getting the Imara in the first place.   O0

ken


Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bunkerbarge on September 23, 2008, 01:05:36 PM
Trust Bunkerbarge to post a photo of a REAL boat. O0 O0

I just love that picture..

 O0
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 23, 2008, 01:07:15 PM
Quote
I also have Colin's excellent write up. It's the original from the Model Boat magazine in 1989

Seems like yesterday, where did the years go.....?!  :'(
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 23, 2008, 03:33:02 PM
Hi peeps, just an update but I have now added a "Resources" link and tab to my site. Please send any pics or documents that you may feel would assist me (or others) in building the Imara.     

See it at www.imarablog.org

A big thank you to Colin for getting the ball rolling.  ;D

@Ken - I have just this very morning received two Robbie 1000's. I hope they turn out to be as good as I was made to believe.

@Bunkerbarge - Cold Water Vapor generator, looks real nice (lovely pic btw). Do you have any details on how you made yours?

Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Martin [Admin] on September 23, 2008, 04:40:54 PM

    http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Gallery/Imara/index.htm (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Gallery/Imara/index.htm)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Marks Model Bits on September 23, 2008, 06:26:24 PM
Hi Martin, I have always loved the Imara it was never within my budget :'( :'( :'( :'(   Have a look at this for your smoke genny http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12767.msg123470#new  There is a link to youtube showing it running in my Steam Tug Canning.

Mark.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 23, 2008, 08:14:25 PM

Quote
@Ken - I have just this very morning received two Robbie 1000's. I hope they turn out to be as good as I was made to believe.

Martin.

Martin:   I have a Robbe 1000 in my 58" Boston Typhoon and it pulls like a 'good un'. Imagine what two will do to a shorter boat


Quote

Seems like yesterday, where did the years go.....?!   :'(

Colin:    Sorry to remind you.   ;)

ken


Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 23, 2008, 08:16:30 PM
I ws young and innocent then.... ::)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 23, 2008, 08:43:27 PM
@No mustang mark - I have been looking at the smoke generator, and I must say I am impressed. Are you still making them? If so I may get one, but I have an idea for my own that I may try out first.

@Ken - Two motors should push the world in the opposite direction then  {-)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bunkerbarge on September 23, 2008, 09:21:56 PM
Hi Bungie, The vapour generator in the tug above is a JJC unit which are unfortunately no longer manufactured.  Mark, now makes a similar unit, as linked to above, which should give the same effect and also has the major advantages over the heated oil types of using less power and not having a hot element heating up oil inside your precious boat!

The disadvantages are that the units are bigger and Marks does need an additional power supply for it but if you have the room, and in an Imara with a motor propulsion you have the room, then you can get some very realistic effects.  I recieved a unit from Mark only today, thanks Mark, and I will be having a play around with it on the bench tommorrow.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 23, 2008, 09:26:49 PM
@Bunkerbarge - I am glad you have got one. Could you give me a update on how it performs and installs when you get to know it. Open air on the water type video would be really cool to see.

I have also put links to Marks smoke generator on my site - http://www.imarablog.org/index.php?page_id=101

Also, if anyone can provide more information on the Robbe 1000 motors than I already have it would be greatly appriciated. http://www.imarablog.org/?p=125

Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: bosun on September 23, 2008, 09:55:49 PM
HY Bungie 247
I have one of Marks units, I must confess I do know him as he lives near to me, but none the less I have seen his units working close up and I am impressed by them.
I am putting the one I have into my finished Imara, hopefully this week ( I am in the process of building a new workshop so I cant really say when.)
I am also getting a couple more to put into some other tugs that I have.
They are a nice clean, no fuss job, that work straightaway, its a pity about the 24 volt system, but dont let that put you off.
Bosun
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 23, 2008, 10:02:16 PM
@Bosun - Excellent, do you have any pics or video I could view/post? Is there anyway to boost the smoke output? Does it require distilled water or is "furring" not a problem?

I hope your workshop is completed soon  :)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 23, 2008, 10:03:51 PM
You can get a couple of 12v 1.2ah or 2.2 ah sealed lead acid batteries for your 24 volts. They don't weigh all that much and will easily fit in a big tug hull although you may need to charge them separately if you are using standard SLA chargers which normally only go up to 12v.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Marks Model Bits on September 23, 2008, 10:13:09 PM
Hi Martin, furring could be a problem if you live in a hard water area but you can use distilled water. The membranes can be replaced easily though and only cost a fiver. there is instructions included on how to increase the airflow through the unit so you can play around with it.

Mark.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 25, 2008, 11:21:51 PM
Ok, my first small problem. I don't have any propellers in the kit. Not a problem really because I was going to fit brass ones anyway. What concerns me more is that a bag they should be in may be missing. Has anyone any ideas as to what was in the bag with the props (if anything) otherwise I shall get on to Caldercraft.

Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 26, 2008, 11:24:52 AM
Hi peeps, I contacted Caldercraft and was informed that the props are no longer supplied, so panic over  {-)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 26, 2008, 07:24:36 PM
Ok, my first small problem. I don't have any propellers in the kit. Not a problem really because I was going to fit brass ones anyway. What concerns me more is that a bag they should be in may be missing. Has anyone any ideas as to what was in the bag with the props (if anything) otherwise I shall get on to Caldercraft.

Martin.


Hi Martin

There are 29 sealed bags in my Imara kit. You are correct, as I do not have any Props either. At least you've cleared this up for me as well.

Cheers

ken
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 26, 2008, 07:40:22 PM
You are not missing anything, they ware quite unsuitable for a working model. Same goes for the clunky rudder too in my view!
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 26, 2008, 07:49:48 PM
@Ken - Glad to be of service ;) I spoke to Caldercraft, they no longer put the props in the kit because people use different props for Electric & Steam but if you want to build a "Static" Imara they will send the props to you.

Any news on your hull yet?  :-\

@Colin - What don't you like about the rudder Colin?

Regards, Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 26, 2008, 07:57:41 PM
@Ken - Glad to be of service ;)

Any news on your hull yet?  :-\

Regards, Martin.

I have heard from Germany and they have OK'd the replacement. We have yet to arrange delivery dates.

ken
 
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on September 26, 2008, 07:59:15 PM
You are not missing anything, they ware quite unsuitable for a working model. Same goes for the clunky rudder too in my view!

Hi Colin

I thought that too when I saw it. No doubt I shall be enquiring a better way of doing it when I get around to starting her.  ;)

ken
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on September 26, 2008, 08:20:10 PM
Quote
What don't you like about the rudder Colin.

On a model of this size the rudder servo is going to have quite a bit of work to do and a rudder consisting of a chunk of white metal melted around a bit of metal rod weighing around 5 oz or about 130grams doesn't make things any easier. I used the kit version as a pattern and made a replacement made of wood fitted to brass tube using tangs for stiffening. (You could use aluminium alloy sheet instead. I also made up a custom lower support bracket with bearing which bolted directly to the keel so that it would be possible to dismantle the rudder assembly for regreasing the tube etc.

The rudder supplied in the kit will work but I found it too crude for my taste.

Colin
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on September 27, 2008, 01:09:36 PM
@Colin - I had not realised that. I assumed (assumption being the mother of all foul up's) that the rudder shaft at the point at which the rudder is moulded would have at least have been "keyed" in some way. Thanks for the tip.  :)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on October 01, 2008, 04:49:33 AM
Hi peeps, been a little while but I am here to tax your brains again.  ;D  I wonder if anyone can tell me if the propshafts on the Imara are supposed to be parallel with each other or not. It is not important really, just a healthy thirst for knowledge  :D

Also I also need some suitable props. Preferably four bladed (three bladed would do) with a 2ba fitting. What size do I require and from where would I purchase such a beast?

Anyhow, my latest exploits are at www.imarablog.org as usual.

Regards,  Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Tug-Kenny on October 10, 2008, 10:10:15 PM

Hi Martin

Been away on holiday, so have only just caught up with your Blog.

I too, have purchased the four bladed props from Westbourne's, and quite chunky they are as well. A nice bit of kit, as they say.

With regards to your 'lining' the stand, a lot of modellers go for a cut up mouse mat. I did this with one of my stands, but have gone over to Felt from a piano as it's softer and more resilient for heavy models. Nothing worse than scratching a freshly painted hull.

Ken
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on October 14, 2008, 12:45:09 PM
@Kenny - I hope you enjoyed your holiday and have returned well rested. Using a mouse mat for padding is a cool idea. I will try that if my pipe lagging experiment is a failure.

Well my props have now arrived from Westbourne models (thanks peeps) and I now have a question. Does anyone have a suggestion for the prop rotation? I assumed that the props would rotate as follows.

(When viewed from astern of the hull - props running in the ahead direction)

Port prop - Clockwise

Starboard Prop - Anti Clockwise

(http://www.imarablog.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/propellers.jpg)

I have read some articles that suggest that this is correct as well as the wrong way, however this is the method suggested by the plans. What are your thoughts? Does anyone know a definitive answer for the Imara?

Regards, Martin.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Martin [Admin] on October 14, 2008, 01:13:46 PM
Prop rotation, one of the great Mayhem debates.....

The convention I think is:-
Slow / displacement / scale boats:
Port clockwise  - Starboard Anticlockwise.
(The wash meets in a downward direction giving better rudder control. )

Fast / planing / surface drive:
Port Anticlockwise - Starboard Clockwise.
(The wash meets in a upward direction giving better speed. )

....... I now stand back to be proved wrong a thosand time!  :-)
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: nhp651 on October 14, 2008, 02:35:05 PM
According to Nicholson's guide to seamanship, on a twin screw ship, the majority conform to starboard prop....right handed, ie clockwise, and port prop left handed..ie anticlockwise.
hope this helps. neil.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on October 14, 2008, 02:58:53 PM
Shhhh, can you hear the sound of a can opener removing the top on a can of worms somewhere?     ok2

Too late now I guess. The blue touchpaper has been lit.... (Bungie stands back to enjoy the show)       :-)

Seriously, thanks peeps. I think that Martin may have the modelmakers solution and nhp651 the real world one. Now as my Imara is going to be a working and heavily used model, I will try the props in both modes and give you my opinions when tested.
 
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: nhp651 on October 14, 2008, 03:06:38 PM
hi bungie,
I've tried mine in both modes, before......usually when I've made a "mistake" and not fitted them as in the "real world", and to tell you the truth, I don't think it makes a hapeth of difference...well as far as my untrained eye could tell.
I didn't see any different handling charactoristics either way that they were fitted.
I think I just fix them that way for authenticity and to stop some smug ol' b****r in the club telling me that "you've got it all wrong".......you know where I'm coming from. {-) %% :-))
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bungie 247 on October 14, 2008, 03:14:16 PM
@nhp651 - Yup, I know that feeling very well. I always hear Harry Enfields "I don't think you really wanted to do that did you?" character in my head on those occasions.  %%
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 14, 2008, 04:30:19 PM
My original review model of Imara took a lordly disregard of the rudder altogether. I had to steer her on the props - not the white metal originals of course but nice brass ones. I'd be pragmatic and try them both ways. If one works better than the other stick with that. If there's no difference then fit them in the officially approved way. If somebody complains you've still got it wrong then get them to take a real good close up look with their nose under the stern and give her full throttle. The bottom of the boat should be painted red anyway so you won't notice the mess.  ok2

Colin
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Bryan Young on October 14, 2008, 06:46:04 PM
Not wishing to re-start the "discussion" on L or R handed props. I would only offer this as a consideration. Which side of the ship/boat etc. do you normally berth to the landing stage? If it is "port-side" to the quay then having the props turn outwards makes life easier...transverse thrust does most of the work. Reverse all that if you normally go the other way round. BY.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: Colin Bishop on October 14, 2008, 06:48:58 PM
The version of Imara being discussed here has twin props Bryan. I assume your comments relate to single screw vessels.
Title: Re: Building the Caldercraft Imara
Post by: John W E on October 14, 2008, 07:15:34 PM
Hi there All

Here's some food for thought;

HMS Ajax - 4 props - all turning outboard - with electronic mixer and she spins on a sixpence without a mixer - turns, but in about 3 ships lengths using rudder only.

HMS Ajax - same ship as above - inboard turning props -  makes an ideal straight runner and she refuses to turn - even with Mixer

MTB - triple prop - two outermost props turning outboard; inner prop turning ante-clockwise - no electronic mixer - but with scale rudders - turns in about 20 boat lengths - not very manouvreable

MTB - same boat as above - but reversing the outermost props to turn inboard and it is the most un-manouvreable boat - but, there is a slight increase in speed.

VOSPER 73ft RAF Rescue Launch - twin prop - outboard turning - scale rudders - dont think there is  a lake big enough for her to turn in - with or without mixer or reversing the props to inboard - it makes no difference - she just persists in running in a straight line.

SEAFORTH CLANSMAN - no props and still she goes like stink    hahahha    seriously, two props outboard turning in fixed court nozzles; with an electronic mixer and a bow thruster, obviously when we use the bow thruster and the mixer you can get the model to do anything you like - even the Swan Lake Ballet ??? without using the electronic mixers or the bow thruster she still has a pretty turning circle

I have been told by the 'tuggies' at the Boat club - if you want manouvreability - have outboard turning props - independently controlled.    If you want sheer pulling power, have them inboard but you do lose out on manouvreability.

Last but not least, RAF Whaleback - 3 props turning the same way - with electronic mixer and can control each motor independently - *horrible* useless..................lorra lorra watta arl owa the place and plenty stern shift to one side  :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :P

Aye
John e
Bluebird