Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Detail Work, Rigging, Fittings, Figures Etc. => Topic started by: John C on October 20, 2008, 05:43:00 PM

Title: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on October 20, 2008, 05:43:00 PM
Is there a correct way to connect the sail to the hoops?

I am just asking as the folks that supply these ready made seem to have an attachment ready fitted!.

Many thanks to Boatmadman who's S'glue option provided the stiffest hoop quickly (but I always get in such a mess with S'glue)

And to MCR.......I did make most of the hoops with PVA although I'm hoping these will be as stiff as the S'glue ones once they've gone off.

I also owe you an apology as It was your boat not Testers that I fell in love with a while ago (see Bawley colour scheme thread)

And just in case there are doubters about the power of this forum see attached photo.....asked question yesterday, made hoops today!!!

John C

Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: boatmadman on October 20, 2008, 06:24:01 PM
John,

They look great, well done. I attached mine using cotton thread, but it depends on the scale of the boat. I will take a pic of how I did it later (when I get home) and post it here.

Ian
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: MCR on October 20, 2008, 07:08:10 PM
Check this out
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: boatmadman on October 20, 2008, 08:09:18 PM
Instead of the eyelet in the sail, I sewed the thread behind the bolt rope. I f I remember correctly, I couldnt find eyelets small enough for the scale I built to.

Ian
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on October 21, 2008, 09:22:51 AM
I knew you'd come through for me, so cheers for that.

Scale is 1/12 by the way................suits my clumsy fingers and larger models sail better or so I'm told (must be the skipper in my case!!)

Regards

John
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: dreadnought72 on October 21, 2008, 09:53:18 AM
The hoops look great - and thanks for those who answered, as I'd wondered about this myself!

Mayhem - you gotta love it!  :-))

Andy #1963#
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: MCR on October 21, 2008, 04:47:29 PM
DONT FORGET TO LEAVE A COUPLE OF SPARES.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on October 22, 2008, 09:39:15 AM
I'm ahead of you there, made a spare set while I was on a roll.

Good advice all the same

John
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: MCR on October 22, 2008, 09:54:28 AM
Put a couple of spares on the bottom of the mast.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on October 23, 2008, 10:43:34 AM
Will do
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: farrow on January 11, 2009, 11:37:14 PM
With Thames barges, I was taught by an old experienced master the way to lash a topsail to a hoop, using marlene (a four stranded version of spunyarn and no unattainable). You cut a length about 6 feet long then, cow hitch the bight to the sail then put the ring in the middle of the two lengths and pass the ends over through the ring and the ends go back to the sail on the same side as they started. Pass the ends through the eyelet and repeat up and through the ring. Do this as much as possible then you wind the ends round the bight of the lashing and secure with a reef knot, This method provided you keep the ring at 90 degrees ti the sail, ensyures that the ring stays at 90 degrees always and does not allow the ring if the lashing slackens to become off angle and bind on the mast. Also as a note of interest old working masts using hoops on sails which were hoisted and lowered were never usually painted or varnished in working vessels as the mast coating made the rings bind on the mast, Thames barges always greased thier topmast because of this reason and were always bare wood.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on January 12, 2009, 01:59:38 AM
Sorry Rmasmaster, I cannot picture what you are saying.
Any cahnce of a sketch, please?
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on January 12, 2009, 08:44:51 AM
Morning Mark

Sorry about the rubbish sketch, I think this is what rmasmaster means if I've read it right.

John
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on January 12, 2009, 08:53:21 AM
OK I see.

So how big is the hole in the sail and what diameter is the rope. Coz 6 ft is a lot of rope to be threading.
Would the sail hole have a cringle, or would it be hoop stitched (I think that is the term) to hold the sail cloth around the edge of the hole together.

I am explaining/asking this badly.

What I am trying to get to is.
If I was to copy this at 1/10 scale could I used thread for the rope or would I need string, or something in between?
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on January 12, 2009, 10:51:42 AM
Mark
I'm definately not the best person to answer this. Despite being interested in anything to do with boats since I was a kid, I don't take my models that seriously I just go with what looks right to me  %%.
As MCR and rmasmaster both mentioned eyelets, I would guess thats what's needed rather than a cringle, the size of which you'd need to scale from your drawing.
I took the 6 foot of rope to be full size vessel, so at 1/10 = 7.5 inches for the model. I would have though anything thicker than a thin string would look overkill.
Personally I don't intend to use eyelets as I don't get on with them, I'll just put the thread/string through the sail behind the bolt rope.

Regards

John

Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on January 12, 2009, 10:52:56 AM
Thanks John.

Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on January 21, 2009, 10:14:37 AM
Mark

Have been watching re-run of "getting afloat" on discovery which features 1:1 classic sail. With ref to above query full size sail have eyelets where sail attaches to mast as far as I can see from the programme.

Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on January 21, 2009, 10:16:47 AM
Thanks John.

What is 'Getting Afloat', educational like Discovery Channel, documentary, film?
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on January 21, 2009, 10:25:58 AM
It's a documentary series by a boat builder on the south coast in which he restores a 1920's sharpie racing dinghy. The programme is padded out with visits to other classic sail restorations, and pieces on navigation etc.
The guys name is Nick Gates, a google will bring up his web site. Also if you search for "seanicky" on youtube, there's video of his fully restored to sail Peterhead Zulu.
Interesting if you're into classic sail.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on January 21, 2009, 10:41:37 AM
Brilliant, thanks.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on January 21, 2009, 07:48:36 PM
You're welcome

I'm trying to deduce how the iron band the fore sail is attached to is rigged. I get the impression that is is attached to a pulley on the bow sprit, so that's why I watch all these old programmes on the box ( beats shivering in the shed anyway).

But then if anyone wants to enlighten me..........

John C
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: Tester on January 21, 2009, 08:29:00 PM
Hi John

Here's a drawing of a bowsprit with traveller.

If you look on Google books they have the first few chapters of Gaff Rig Handbook, these cover spars, rigging etc very usefull source without buying the book !!
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vunvLutTE7QC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=bowsprit+traveller&source=web&ots=uqV0X6A0b2&sig=gZbKb9XXQgSjqzixOruef1uRZQA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA22,M1 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vunvLutTE7QC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=bowsprit+traveller&source=web&ots=uqV0X6A0b2&sig=gZbKb9XXQgSjqzixOruef1uRZQA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA22,M1)

I've just been watching the rerun of dreamboats, they build a nice sailing beach boat on that one.

HTH
Richard
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on January 22, 2009, 01:18:03 AM


If you look on Google books they have the first few chapters of Gaff Rig Handbook, these cover spars, rigging etc very usefull source without buying the book !!
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vunvLutTE7QC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=bowsprit+traveller&source=web&ots=uqV0X6A0b2&sig=gZbKb9XXQgSjqzixOruef1uRZQA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA22,M1 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vunvLutTE7QC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=bowsprit+traveller&source=web&ots=uqV0X6A0b2&sig=gZbKb9XXQgSjqzixOruef1uRZQA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA22,M1)

Richard

What a truly excellent resource.
Thanks for posting Tester.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on January 22, 2009, 12:40:54 PM
I second TT's comments, looks like a book worth adding to my library at some point.

John C
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on February 01, 2009, 12:22:39 PM
For anyone following the thread so far, there's an article in February MMI magazine on a model of the winkle brig Emma Goody.

As far as I can see the rig is almost identical to a bawley, and from the photo's can pretty much work out what's needed on my own model.

John C  :-)
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: Tester on February 01, 2009, 12:37:47 PM
I have just borrowed the Ashley Book of Knots from the library, it has 600 pages of knots and rigging etc. A very interesting book to browse and very useful for scale sail I think.

This is an example of one of the pages on mast hoops.

Richard
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: tigertiger on February 01, 2009, 12:41:57 PM
For anyone following the thread so far, there's an article in February MMI magazine on a model of the winkle brig Emma Goody.

As far as I can see the rig is almost identical to a bawley, and from the photo's can pretty much work out what's needed on my own model.

John C  :-)

If only this was available on-line.
Problem I have is I may not want every copy and postage is so expensive for subs.
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: Tester on February 01, 2009, 12:50:07 PM
Hi TT

I will be having a look at the issue tomorrow if it's worth it I can buy and scan the article for you if you would like it.
Let me know as I'm going to newsagent tomorrow.

Richard
Title: Re: Mast hoops again....sorry
Post by: John C on February 01, 2009, 01:08:54 PM
Tester

We only get a mobile library out here in the sticks at the moment, but I'll be looking out for the book. It's joining a growing list at the moment.

I found the Seaforth book "Inshore Craft" useful, but it doesn't include the detail that the books you've mentioned have.

Regards

John C