Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: alan colson on October 31, 2008, 08:53:00 PM

Title: halloween horrors
Post by: alan colson on October 31, 2008, 08:53:00 PM
Have just returned home from helping my daughter and son in law to move. The front door of our house was covered in silly string, the side windows had been sprayed with paint and whilst I was outside the house with my daughter cleaning up a group of about seven all dressed up started throwing something at a neighbours house (she is in her 80's and lives on her own) and hit the windows.
THIS IS NOT TRICK OR TREAT it is plain vandalism, IT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. What is your opinion of this stupid American tradition?
Alan
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: The long Build on October 31, 2008, 09:05:22 PM
As an American and one who has been out on many a halloween trip , it is not the tradition that is at fault but the minority of Idiots who ruin it for others.. Much like Fireworks night A British Traddition !!
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: bigford on November 01, 2008, 12:16:51 AM
i just let the doberman out in the front yard on helloween <*< <*< >>:-(
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 01, 2008, 09:21:18 AM
It's a stupid American tradition and should stay there. We have Bonfire night.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: The long Build on November 01, 2008, 09:29:51 AM
It is not a stupid American Tradition, it is that just STUPID MINORITIES have made it appear that way , as I said before just the same as STUPID MINORITES have made Fireworks night (and nights well the event) a night of hell for a lot of people and animals more so than halloween.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 01, 2008, 09:37:53 AM
I certainly agree that minorities make things a whole lot worse for everyone whether Bonfire Night or Halloween but I do object to a constant stream of people knocking on the door when I'm in the middle of something else. It's just as bad as those phone call adverts from India which you don't seem to be able to stop despite signing up to the "No Cold Calling" registers.

I don't mind what people get up to for their own amusement (within limits!) but I don't think that should include disturbing others. Halloweeen in the UK is just something that the retail trade has imported and hyped to make money over here. There is no tradition of it in the UK.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: The long Build on November 01, 2008, 09:50:13 AM
fair comment..
Around here it is generally excepted by the sensible that you only go to houses that have Pumpkins lit up outside.  And some of those pumpkins have been carved like a piece of art , not like my triangles for ears, nose, eyes..

As regards the retail , surprised we don't have happy Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc cards available.  ummm I might market that.. :}

Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Roger in France on November 01, 2008, 09:51:06 AM
Haloween is very big in France. However, not "Trick or Treat" around here. But I did hear of a French town where the police escorted the kids doing "T or T" down the street to prevent abuse!!!!!

Shops, restaurants and public places are decorated with Haloween acoutrements and flowers.

The French mark "All Souls" and "All Saints" as a significant occassion to remember departed family and friends. There are many family gatherings; family meals and visits to graveyards to place chrysanthemums on memorials and graves.

Chrysanths. are the "funeral flower" here and the shops and supemarkets have a huge abundance of them at this time of year. By contrast arum lilies (associated with death and the church in the UK) is widely grown in gardens, both white and coloured varieties. I inherited some in my garden and they flower profusely after being turned to mush by winter frosts.

Roger in France
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 01, 2008, 09:52:31 AM
Quote
Around here it is generally excepted by the sensible that you only go to houses that have Pumpkins lit up outside.

I've no problem with that.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: das boot on November 01, 2008, 10:55:34 AM
Confucsious, he once say "it not gun that kill people, it the iriot that hold gun" .....



Rich
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: dougal99 on November 01, 2008, 11:08:41 AM
It's a stupid American tradition and should stay there. We have Bonfire night.

For the record it is a British tradition, more usually celebrated in Scotland, that was taken to the states by early settlers. The lamps were originally turnips. The settlers used pumpkins as they were more readily available than turnips.

The Trick or Treat originally meant that the child would ask the house holder a riddle or perform a song/dance/poem in return for a small gift, usually fruit.

As usual the roots and meanings of these traditions have become lost and in some cases corrupted and that goes for bonfire night. Weve had noisy fireworks here for the last two weeks  <*<

Everybody should stay at home these long winter nights and build model boats  :-) :-) :-)

Doug
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: meechingman on November 01, 2008, 11:26:18 AM
I was going to take the wireless doorbell push off, but I forgot. Anyway, there wasn't one group of trick or treaters around this year. Irrespective of where the 'tradition' started, trick or treat is one we could happily do without.

Andy
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Shipmate60 on November 01, 2008, 12:37:36 PM
My wife is Scottish (Bless her) and we have just had a discussion on this subject.
In Scotland it was was seen as a "big night", where householders would also participate with Ducking for Apples, cakes made with Salt, Pepper and of course sugar.
Was seen as good fun for the neighbourhood.
Now its just knock on the door and expect a gift.
We did put up a lighted mask and stocked up with lots of ready made bags of "goodies".
We do seem to have lost something though.
I have just been informed that it ISNT an American Tradition, but an Irish one.
The Legend is that The Devil banished a soul to walk the earth with no company and all he had was a little lantern and the only time he could aproach people to beg for food was on this night, hence a "punishment" for his food.

Bob
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: craftysod on November 01, 2008, 12:48:51 PM
I found out while seeing you Bob yesterday,as you know,while i was admiring his boats and collection of parts,and coffee,that some idiot threw an egg on the windscreen of my lorry'went to clear with washer and now cant see diddly squat.
At least part of breakfast for monday is sorted
Mark
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: barryfoote on November 01, 2008, 12:50:07 PM
Down here in Andalucia they celebrate "All Saints" night by family visits to the cemetary where they spend hours eating and drinking by the graves of departed loved ones.

No trick or treat here..
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: alan colson on November 01, 2008, 01:17:55 PM
I have just been reading with interest all the replies to this post that I started last night. I will now add to my original statement. I could cope with the odd young child knocking at the door for trick or treat and have in the past had sweets by the front door to give to kids. This year it was pure vadalism by older youths dressed up in costumes. After I made the original posting myself and the family sat down for a take away meal having been so busy with the move earlier. After this my daughter had to go out to pick up her 6 month old son from baby sitters, she called me outside to show me that the van we had hired (which by the way had a 500 excess on it), my car and a neighbours caravan had all been sprayed with something red, we could hear but not see these youngsters in the darkness of the recreation ground close by, they made a great noise whilst we cleared up the mess, the police were called, I think they spoke to the neighbours about their caravan and then went to speak to the young idiots causing the trouble and informed us that we had to call them again should we have any more trouble. This morning we found another area of the garden fence sprayed with the paint.
If I find out who did the actual damage they will wish they hadn't done it.
Alan
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: craftysod on November 01, 2008, 01:40:17 PM
This thread is going to another way of thinking,halloween horrors to the way people use a festivity,as a excuse to wreck/abuse someone elses property.
I feel sorry for you Alan,as you have suffered from the mentality retarted things that roam our streets.
I have been a victim myself (car done over 3 times,front garden stolen twice)
Mark





Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: sinjon on November 01, 2008, 02:13:12 PM
Before we were married my wife had a ground floor flat, Halloween she would go and stay with her parents.
I think the word was harassed, not Halloween.

Colin
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Guy Bagley on November 01, 2008, 02:25:06 PM
 well to top this our neighbour 2 doors down has ... or should i say  had..... a lovely 18 month old swift challenger caravan, the mindless morons last weeknd thought it was funny to throw fireworks in the street, they decided to  light a firework and trow it under his caravan parked on his driveway outside his house...it was 2.30 am

 he was woken  several minutes later to sounds of crackling..... he looked out the window and saw his caravan ablaze, the flames were 2 feet high,  by the time he got to his front door the flames were up to roof height on the van, within 3 minutes the only thing visible was the deformed alko chassic, the van was ash......it went up in 3 minutes.....be warned caravanners, the new 'composite vans'  with GRP panels and one peice roof and simailr burn very very fast.....not like the older aluminium skinned vans....

scary to see the van go up so damm quick, the black smoke was unreal, and the ferocity of the fire was so intense his  mitsubushi shogan also parked on the drive literally melted,- its a write off too-  every window on the front of his house cracked due to the heat... the guttering,the UPVC front door  the fascias and soffits are also history, the fire has done over 100k of damage, and this is due to kids thinking fireworks and holleween is fun  and inflicting misery is also fun,

now i am not a  total kill joy and my  kids carved a pumkin, stuck it in the window so other know we are happy to participate in trick or treat,- we dished out the sweets to those who called on us.... but  scaring the elderly and  'egging' houses  because no one comes to the door is just unecessary.....

 its just a damm shame a few morons spoil it for the masses....... fireworks should be used in organised dispalys only and not sold to any tom dick or harry, - the retailers are to blame here too.....

and i hear on the radio some stores banned the selling of eggs and flour prior to halloween.....

how sad is it that a few spoil it for everyone else ...

Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Colin Bishop on November 01, 2008, 02:31:11 PM
That's a pretty awful story Guy.

Shops around here banned sales of flour and eggs to kids as well.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: wbeedie on November 01, 2008, 02:31:41 PM
Up here on Skye the kids were great always had a joke readyfor the occupants that I know because before they got there treat they had to tell a joke or something and all the kids had something prepared whether a joke or something silly ,one older idiot did say he would egg the house then he noticed the air rifle by the door and changed his mind lol but for the most part it was young kiddies of primary age that appeared about 60 or so and the thought that went into some of the costumes was great
Its a tradition up here that is well liked both by kids and adults alike and most houses  participate  but not so keen on the "trick or Treating" that has arrrived on our shores but  prefered the Penny for the Guy of when I was younger a few years back and not that far back I may hasten to add.
 Dont let the minority spoil a fun night out for all as we had participated in years gone by
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: bigford on November 01, 2008, 05:16:56 PM
wow you guys on the other side of the pond are grumpy
when do you celabrate old farts day  ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/bigfordf550/Drunk_pumpkin.jpg)
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: gribeauval on November 01, 2008, 05:36:22 PM
Quote
wow you guys on the other side of the pond are grumpy
when do you celabrate old farts day

Every Morning!! 8)

Mike
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: The long Build on November 01, 2008, 05:43:15 PM
brilliant  :-))
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: alan colson on November 01, 2008, 07:59:56 PM
It would seem that bigford has not been a victim of problems like mine or Guy Bagleys neighbour, I also have a caravan parked on the front of the house so when that goes up in flames he will be the first member of mayhem to put his hand in his pocket to help me out
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: bigford on November 01, 2008, 10:17:28 PM
my point was about trick or treating not vandalism :police:
nobodys properity should be messed with. guy i missed your post about the camper
burning  <:( i was talking about the grumpy guys bitching about kids trick or treating
you see we in the states LOVE holloween
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Peter Fitness on November 01, 2008, 10:37:51 PM
I agree with Colin Bishop, Halloween is a stupid American practice which has no relevance to many of us, particularly here in Australia  >>:-(. My understanding is it is a tradition to celebrate the end of Summer, and the start of the dark days of winter, and as us Antipodeans are just entering Summer, it is all a bit pointless. As was mentioned in other posts, it has been seized upon by retailers, rather like Valentine's day, which is also another excuse to boost sales. Fortunately, we have not had any acts of vandalism associated with Halloween in our area, but I believe they have occurred elsewhere. If the Americans love Halloween, then that's fine, let them enjoy it, but I refuse to be any part of it. If that makes me a grumpy old fart, then so be it, but I have plenty of company, at least, in this country.

Peter.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: bigfella on November 01, 2008, 11:02:28 PM
I'll second that Peter. My niece and nephew when they were little were so influenced by US TV that they kept on at their mother for all the Halloween stuff. The compromise was to hold a Halloween party with costumes but no going door to door. I really think that although it may be fun for the kids as they may get some sweets, it is no fun for households being almost threatened if you don't give them something, Extortion some might say. Another thing to consider in this day and age are perverts and loonies who might lace sweets with something.

Regards David
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: bigford on November 01, 2008, 11:53:36 PM
a bit of a good read about halloween
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: toesupwa on November 02, 2008, 04:43:43 AM
... Halloween is a stupid American practice ...

1/ As previously mentioned, 'Halloween' is an Irish / Scottish tradition

2/ Having moved from Great Britain to the USA, I have experienced both sides of the coin.
The children (from 5 to 15 years of age) that knocked on the door here last night were courteous and polite.. and said "thank you" when they were given sweets AND wished me a "Good evening" as they dissapeared in to the night.

The bad behaviour appears (yet again) to be a British tradition.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: wideawake on November 02, 2008, 09:13:51 AM
Actually AFAIK Hallowe'en (note apostrophe) is an abbreviation for All Hallows Even(ing) ie the evening before All Hallows Day.  The two days, otherwise often known as All Souls day and All Saints day are a Christian tradition, overlaid, as many other Christian celebration days are, on a pre-Christian celebration, in this case Samhain.   What has been imported from the US is, as Colin says, the excessive commercialisation and sometimes near thuggish behaviour now associated with the 31st October.

When I was a lad we celebrated Hallowe'en but with home-generated entertainment.   Sometimes other children joined us and AFAIR we might have dressed up in sheets and run around the village but mainly we made swede lanterns (note NOT pumpkins as we'd barely heard of such a vegetable!) and played duck-apple, with water splashing all over the place and causing chaos in the kitchen!

Ah the good old days  :-)

Guy



Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: alan colson on November 02, 2008, 09:16:17 AM
bigfella
My original point was that I would give sweets or accept a trick, but the problems started whilst I was out of the house. The family couldn't offer the treat because we were not at home but the idiots still left us with the s**t which included spray paint which is totally unreasonable in any circumstances.
Alan
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: The long Build on November 02, 2008, 09:21:07 AM
What has been imported from the US is, as Colin says, the excessive commercialisation and sometimes near thuggish behaviour now associated with the 31st October.



Commercialisation yes , Thuggish behaviour NO
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: bigfella on November 02, 2008, 09:24:51 AM
bigfella
My original point was that I would give sweets or accept a trick, but the problems started whilst I was out of the house. The family couldn't offer the treat because we were not at home but the idiots still left us with the s**t which included spray paint which is totally unreasonable in any circumstances.
Alan

And being spray painted is your "Trick" for not being there for a "Treat". Who knows they could have thought you were trying to avoid them.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: Reade Models on November 02, 2008, 10:02:38 AM
What I'd like to know is where and how this 'trick or treat' thing originated, and why has it suddenly migrated to the UK?  It's certainly not welcome here as far as I'm concerned.

Don't get me wrong, I like kids, but I don't think I could eat a whole one. %) %)

We've have unsupervised four and five year olds knocking on doors all over the neighbourhood.  Pretty safe here where I live as far as I can tell, but could have tragic outcomes if they happened to knock on the door of some unregistered paedophile...

Malc


Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: wideawake on November 02, 2008, 10:12:01 AM
What has been imported from the US is, as Colin says, the excessive commercialisation and sometimes near thuggish behaviour now associated with the 31st October.



Commercialisation yes , Thuggish behaviour NO

In  fairness to me - I did say NEAR thuggish!  I think part of the problem is that what might have started as supervised groups of small children having a bit of fun with people they knew - neighbours, friends of the family etc. - has now become an excuse for older children to indulge in what many of us see as unacceptable forms of behaviour akin to bullying.

Guy

Guy
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: PT Sideshow on November 02, 2008, 03:10:18 PM
Well in the Detroit area, they have finally gotten the the devil's night tradition of arson in Detroit down to only 65 fires of suspicious origin this year. In years past it was above 150. Now this doesn't include the normal fires in a large city. For years there were travel agencies that would book trips for the week from England, Europe and Japan which was by far the largest group coming over here to participate if what was called a Fire Buffs Heavenly nights in Hell, with action round the clock non stop for days.
They had buses, vans and radio scanners for the people use. Some even where chartering airplanes for night flights over the city. Some said it looked like footage of the aftermath of the night bombing raids on London in WWII. They would have the adverts in the Fire Buff magazines and one national general magazine called firehouse. They had the fire companies, staged and would take fresh crews to rotate if they couldn't get back for a break. There is a book written on the subject  I used to have the scanners and shortwave radios pre computer and listened to them there were times that the dispatch would have  so many waiting fires that they stared to send out crews in the refuse tricks filled with water type fire extinguishers and any other city vehicle that would roll to put out trash fires,dumpster fires.

Then they figured they could adjust the number of fires by calling all but the major fires trash dumpster fires. When they were called on it one answer was well the vacant trash filled house is just like a dumpster!

The last couple of years the number of kids coming around and through my neighbor in an small out lying town has been almost zero. With the food and candy tampering, they recommend taking the candy to your local area that run metal detectors over it looking for razor blades and straight pins.

I can't forget the bad acting parents walking around with the little kids, asking for a beer for him and a couple were stumbling drunk. I called the police one year because the child wasn't over 5 trying to deal with daddy.

They had over 3,500 volunteers out this years from the Thursday before to the Sunday night after. dawn to dusk.

I quit years ago giving candy and decorating the house, I use to do FX and build props, we now put the car and truck in behind the 6 foot stockade fence and its lite up like a floating Chinese restaurant.

I will say that we have had more vandalism done on just any night during the year.

Not being a stick and ball sports person, I could never understand the fights in your matches or Europe's . Or for that matter the need for people to destroy anything in the area if the team wins. You probably remember the picture of the brain dead guy standing on the police car after some team won something years ago in Detroit.

It goes to the whole culture of bad acting people and attitude the TV movies and internet foster on us.
From the US's remakes of bad British reality shows, to the Americanizing of such classics, as life on mars, and so many others.
Then you add the with out a clue people bring kids into the word that think they can look out for them selves.

And I speak from 34 years in the Detroit school system as non instructional personal, as I was a Stationary Engineer/facilities manger. And have seen it all and then some. 

They followed Alice down the rabbit hole! You wait, we have some regional holidays that the confectioners thought up years ago.  Like sweetest day in September since there was no day to push candy This is in addition to the dreaded day in Feb:D

In the US Halloween is now a multi billion dollar sales time, but mostly for adults, parties and trying to outdo the neighbors in decorating the house and yard. And not for the kids.

So lets all move on and prepare for the next sales extravaganza! %% Christmas which they have started pushing in September around Here  :'(

Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: OMK on November 07, 2008, 03:16:02 PM
My heart goes out to the poor dear mentioned in Alan Colson's post, in her eighties, being bombarded with all that abuse from a bunch of loonies.
If she were my neighbour she would no longer have to live in fear because I'd whack the living daylights out of any twonk giving her a hard time.... then she could invite me in for a slice o' cake and a nice cuppa rosy-lee and we'd have a dilly of a discussion on why loads of folk still insist on omitting the apostrophe in Hallowe'en.

But it's okay for you lot - all that trick-or-treating malarkey has gone away for another year. Try living round these parts when the carnival is here. A typical Saturday night carnival fiasco makes treat or treat look positively angelic.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: wideawake on November 07, 2008, 05:15:37 PM
But it's okay for you lot - all that trick-or-treating malarkey has gone away for another year. Try living round these parts when the carnival is here. A typical Saturday night carnival fiasco makes treat or treat look positively angelic.

How was Bridgwater this year?

Guy
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: sweeper on November 07, 2008, 05:17:02 PM
You've hit the target with that one PMK.
Particularly after the murder of the elderly lady a few years back.
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: das boot on November 07, 2008, 05:31:10 PM
Hey sweeper...what do you sweep? (nosey git, ain't I?)

Rich
Title: Re: halloween horrors
Post by: OMK on November 07, 2008, 07:41:51 PM
Bridgwater, you might know, is still pretty much as how the BMA describe the place. Luckily for I, I was conceived a few miles out of town. That's why I don't look like my neighbours.

In a similiar vein, the carnival has turned into a money-spinning two-and-a-half hours of utter ennui -- especially if you ever find yourself not wanting to see it for the umpteenth time and you're standing there with some floozie who's not seen it before, and loads and loads of collection tins being shoved in your face, freezing yer wedding tackle off.... Whereas, Thanksgiving, you'll no doubt be chuffed to hear, is still alive and well.

That's pretty much how Bridgwater was next year and all.