Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: bigford on November 08, 2008, 09:10:06 pm
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WOW the nerve of some people!!!
some mod on here felt they have to have total power
moderated by the above moderator
Bob
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Bigford,
You seem to have totally misunderstood the reference to President Kennedy. It was not that Obama should be killed but that he is demonstrating a similar sort of charisma to JFK. Your post on the other hand made a flippant reference to Kennedy's assassination and then you posted a PM on open Forum which is against Forum rules.
It's not about the Mods being on a power trip but about you making a rather distasteful comment and breaking Forum rules which was duly moderated.
Colin
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Posts: 44
Re: PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 08:23:45 AM »
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may i say it a black kennerdy hope so regiment
reading this the way its posted. sounds not like somebody wants him to have charisma like JFK
as to the mods wiping out post that they dont like it's been done before and this was proof of that
point made!!!!
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You might read it that way Bigford, but that's you. Others would see it differently. I see from your profile that you are too young to have experienced the Kennedy era. Those of us who remember it are not quite so likely to see it just in terms of his assassination, shocking although that was at the time. His election did bring about similar sentiments as we are now seeing with Barack Obama.
Colin
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His election did bring about similar sentiments as we are now seeing with Barack Obama.
Colin,
Sorry to take exception with you but that last statement simply proves what Bigford was saying. To comment on unexplained sentiments about an era and country you can have little experience of is at least conceited. For those of us who have not seen the original post, we can only be left feeling sympathy for a member who has had his views erased, whilst those of a moderator are allowed to stay. It may be that you have, uncharacteristically, explained yourself rather badly, but I for one do not find posts and comments like this helpful........End of rant....
Barry
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Barry,
there seems to be some confusion here. My comments related to Bigford's own comments on Regiment's post in the Obama thread which is still there. So yes, perhaps not as clear as it should have been!
The point I was making was that the "Buzz" we are now seeing with Obama was similar to the "Buzz" when JFK was elected and that is what I think Regiment meant. Bigford appeared to take Regiment's comment as hoping that Obama would suffer the same fate as JFK which I certainly do not think Regiment intended. He seems to associate JFK simply with the assassination rather than all the "Camelot" stuff that preceded it. I was only a kid at the time but I do remember some of it quite clearly, including the missile crisis. Maybe none of us are expressing ourselves too well here!
As for moderating Bigford's post, that included a PM sent to him without the permission of the originator. It is essential that people should be able to exchange PMs (which may include personal information) without fear of them appearing on open forum. There is a strict rule that PMs will not be posted without the consent of both parties and we will enforce that.
Colin
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To make it PERFECTLY CLEAR.
The post was NOT moderated about the comments or content by the poster.
It was moderated purely to delete the contents of a PRIVATE MESSAGE posted in the thread.
That is it,
Colin has previously stated the Forum Policy on publishing PM's and it will be enforced.
The other topic is secondary and the post would have stood if there wasnt a pm included. The only part removed was the pm and reference to it.
Bob
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<Yawn.... stretch.... burp..... fart..... scratch, scratch.........>
Ah, 'morning, all.
Good to see that the bitching and snitching still prevails in ye lands of jolly olde Mayhemville.
Where else on the planet would you find blokes bitching each other... and on the so-called Rememberance Day, to boot.
Dammit, I'm off to church for a pint.
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<Yawn.... stretch.... burp..... fart..... scratch, scratch.........>
Ah, 'morning, all.
Good to see that the bitching and snitching still prevails in ye lands of jolly olde Mayhemville.
Where else on the planet would you find blokes bitching each other... and on the so-called Rememberance Day, to boot.
Dammit, I'm off to church for a pint.
Bless you my son....hope you fill the hat when the vicar passes it round. ok2
Never discuss poliitics, religion or another man's wife with anybody.... ok2
Rich
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<Yawn.... stretch.... burp..... fart..... scratch, scratch.........>
Ah, 'morning, all.
Good to see that the bitching and snitching still prevails in ye lands of jolly olde Mayhemville.
Where else on the planet would you find blokes bitching each other... and on the so-called Rememberance Day, to boot.
Dammit, I'm off to church for a pint.
Bless you my son....hope you fill the hat when the vicar passes it round. ok2
Never discuss poliitics, religion or another man's wife with anybody.... ok2
there is only one person in this world allowed to discuss Politics, Religion and another man's wife and that is your wife {-) {-) {-) {-) O0 O0- after all this is a Model Boat forum with a general chit chat section for lighthearted discussion and moans :-))
for those who wish to involve themselves in Political discussions there are plenty of other Forums. aye .... but not Model Boat Mayhem forum :-)) :-))
back to the modelling lads and lasses....
aye
john e
bluebird
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Just by way of chucking my own cat in with your collective pigeons...
Whilst I fully appreciate that some moderation is needed at times on the Forum, I do have great concerns that there seems to be a whole plethora of moderators on board with widely differing opinions about what does, or does not, need moderating.
I get the distinct impression that there are one or two moderators who operate on the basis that "I don't like you, so I'm going to delete what you've said." (I think that Stavros may have been a victim of this approach)?
The Forum is internet based, and generally, in that context anything goes, and in my own humble opinion, rightly so, within the bounds of common decency. Let us not forget that the Forum is UK based, and here we pride ourselves on the tenets of free speech.
As Winston Churchill said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
Malc
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Malcolm....
Very well put Sir!!!!
and
PMK....
Puts life on the forum beautifully into perspective.
Chaps I apologise if I have caused any offence to anyone. Not my intention. Now lets get back to the important things....loke model boats...
Respect and regards to you all,
Barry
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MERRY CHRISTMAS :-))
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Malcolm, I take strong exception to what you have said, particularly about a former Member who asked to have his account deleted he was not removed by Moderators. I also object to your implication that we Moderators act in an arbitrary fashion. I assure you we spend hours and much effort attempting to steer a reasonable and consistent line. We do not seek to justify to the membership the decisions we take (normally after discussion but exceptionally individually because prompt action is essential). We are answerable to Martin alone, whose word is final and whose guidance is regularly given.
The fact that the Forum is Internet based is quite irrelevant. It was created by Martin, continues to be wholly owned by Martin and would not exist if it were not for his very significant personal and financial input. He sets down the Rules and standards only with the advice of moderators.
Moderators frequently receive complaints from Members by way of the "Report to Moderator" button. However, again we ponder and share thoughts (if possible) before acting.
I would like to take this opportunity to spell out our view of "free speech". We do not seek to moderate or censor members views but we do insist on those views being stated in a civilized and inoffensive manner as is consistent with the Mayhem Rules. Sadly some members seem to think that "free speech" means writing in whatever manner they think appropriate regardless of how offensive, insulting or careless that may be as far as anyone else is concerned. Usually it is the case that those very members who behave in this way are those who first complain when they too become the butt of so called "free speech".
There is not a "whole plethora of moderators" just 5 plus Martin. The work which is done behind the scenes to keep the Forum running and well organised is far greater than Members will realise when they see the occasional moderation. We all do this freely, willingly and, normally, with pleasure. We do it to stimulate the hobby we all enjoy and to assist Martin who has invited us to do this. We do not expect to be appreciated or understood and accept that we are viewed by some as censors.
To misquote WSC, "I do not agree with what you say, but when you say it I reserve the right to redress your misconceptions"!
Roger in France
Moderator.
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MERRY CHRISTMAS :-))
err...'scuse me? Did I miss something here.... {:-{
Rich
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Hmmm seem to have missed something here, never mind I expect there will be another one along shortly. >>:-(
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I have to agree with Roger on this as in is previous post. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=132240;topic=13817.0;num_replies=15;sesc=3713e6c1a5304f98cf741e6595385903#top (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=132240;topic=13817.0;num_replies=15;sesc=3713e6c1a5304f98cf741e6595385903#top) As a moderator on another board, it is more work and there are times that a decision. Can be very clear cut or the fact that it might be, murky and obscured by culture, or other factors due to the "world wide" nature of the medium. The internet forums sometimes remind me of high school here in the US. I don't know what the proper term in England and the EU is. You have the same mix of people types, the masses, nerds, the jocks, brains, science geeks and the geeks and bullies. And as the hall monitors of the forum, they do have a on going and thankless job. So I for one salute you.
Everybody should try to treat everybody else with respect, and if you think it might be the least bit offensive don't type it!
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As regards moderation I would only ask that the moderators themselves follow the rules as laid down, this is not the case in the opening post of this thread and has not always been the case on other posts.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5972.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5972.0)
"Moderators will indicate the reason for the moderation on the post if it has been modified."
This information allows the decision to be transparent to all members.
I would also ask that moderated posts remain in the thread and are not removed. Total removal of an earlier moderated post (as happened on the Obama thread) is to me like hiding evidence of one's deeds, make a decision, post the decision and stand by it, don't remove it because it makes you uncomfortable (that is how it appears).
Removal of moderated posts that I know have been on the forum makes me wonder what else is removed that I may not have seen, an uncomfortable feeling.
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w3bby ,
"Moderators will indicate the reason for the moderation on the post if it has been modified."
This is always carried out, but only to the poster in the form of a pm.
I am finding this thread very illuminating, posters only seem to read the last post then answer.
If you read up a bit you will find a full explanation.
The post was moderated for the inclusion of a pm, a PERSONAL MESSAGE, which is against Forum Rules and Policy.
I had no problem with the content, just the inclusion of a pm.
I would not support a general comment on the post as it COULD lead to embarrassment to the original poster.
You would also be surprised how many requests we get from posters to remove posts, who after thinking about it want it removed.
Bob
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Well, since it's noon, I've already started on me liquid lunch.
So while the lovely warm glow is surging through me bones, I *think* I'm starting to get what Malcolm Reade is trying to say.
I think what's trying to be said is....
Moderated
<Burp!>
Pardon ME!
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It is a good thing for an uneducated man to read books of quotations.
Sir Winston Churchill, My Early Life, 1930
Roger - I had a long discussion with Dave Jones subsequent to his leaving the Forum. I only have his side of the story, but you were "mentioned".
I do stand by what I said in my earlier post - and I am sure PMK would too - if only people could now read what he actually did say....
Malc
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As Winston Churchill said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
Malc
Perhaps Rousseau or maybe Voltaire - you can start a whole new argument over the attribution of this quote or something very like it - but definitely not WC. He was never that liberal or Liberal.
Just muddying the waters.
Barry M
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posters only seem to read the last post then answer.
Bob
Or just the original question then answer!
Yes thanks for mentioning this, at it seems to happen with a lot of the threads on this and other forums. And this also seems to start a lot of the sling and arrow shooting on the forums! :-))
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It's a pity that the PM function can't be locked so that they can't be reproduced on open forum, It's caused sooooooooooooooo many flamers in the past due to "Red Mist" posters.
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Top respect, Malc Reade. For what it's worth, at least one bloke here could see what you were saying. It's just a shame it fell on mosty deaf ears, eh?
Ah well, so much for MY Sabbath. It's only mid-day and already another of my missives has had the blue-out treatment.
I'm off back down the church, gonna grass-up them dodgy mods' to the vicar.
Y'all have a zippity-doo-dah day.
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As regards moderation I would only ask that the moderators themselves follow the rules as laid down, this is not the case in the opening post of this thread and has not always been the case on other posts.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5972.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5972.0)
"Moderators will indicate the reason for the moderation on the post if it has been modified."
This information allows the decision to be transparent to all members.
I would also ask that moderated posts remain in the thread and are not removed. Total removal of an earlier moderated post (as happened on the Obama thread) is to me like hiding evidence of one's deeds, make a decision, post the decision and stand by it, don't remove it because it makes you uncomfortable (that is how it appears).
Removal of moderated posts that I know have been on the forum makes me wonder what else is removed that I may not have seen, an uncomfortable feeling.
Hear, hear! As one who has had posts removed I couldn't agree more...
Simon
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As someone who has more posts moderated than most I cant really see what you lot are going on about.
The post was moderated because it included a PM which is not allowed on the forum.
This forum is actually Martins forum and he spends a lot of time and money on it, therefore he makes the rules,
If you dont like the rules feel free to find another forum. Try Model Boats, it seems to be dying on its feet.
For a load of grown men this topic makes for very sad reading.
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Nice one Richard :-)) :-))
Colin H.
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Thank you Colin, did I really write that ?
I havent been well lately. :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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But your obviously getting better now :}
Colin H.
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thank you colin for understanding what i was trying to say in a few words as possible i was in the raf for 22 years during the cuba trouble i think he stopped a 3rd war he had a vision a free world thats all regiment
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You're a star Dick :-))
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Apologies, that should have read you're a star, Dick :-))
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(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/thinking1.gif)
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As someone who has more posts moderated than most I cant really see what you lot are going on about.
The post was moderated because it included a PM which is not allowed on the forum.
This forum is actually Martins forum and he spends a lot of time and money on it, therefore he makes the rules,
If you dont like the rules feel free to find another forum. Try Model Boats, it seems to be dying on its feet.
For a load of grown men this topic makes for very sad reading.
All very well, but what about the posts that aren't personal messages that are deleted? If the opinions and ideas of members stretch beyond the boundaries of model boating, some of which may be controversial then don't include a section for "Chit Chat". It is an open invitation for free speech. "Grown men" actually do have strong opinions and will express them Richard. I've never seen a post on this forum that I would regard as deliberately abusive, personal and beyond the realms of what is reasonable and therefore in need of moderation. I think everyone on the forum are generally very well behaved and moderate. What is "sad" is when adults are treated like naughty children.
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w3bby ,
"Moderators will indicate the reason for the moderation on the post if it has been modified."
This is always carried out, but only to the poster in the form of a pm.
I am finding this thread very illuminating, posters only seem to read the last post then answer.
If you read up a bit you will find a full explanation.
The post was moderated for the inclusion of a pm, a PERSONAL MESSAGE, which is against Forum Rules and Policy.
I had no problem with the content, just the inclusion of a pm.
I would not support a general comment on the post as it COULD lead to embarrassment to the original poster.
Bob
I did read the whole thread, my definition of "on the post" is on the post, not in a PM to the member and not a few posts further down. This would also allow forum members to see the reasoning behind decisions and maybe avoid certain pitfalls themselves. Whilst we all have read %) the rules when we joined, gentle reminders help keep everyone on track.
If the first post had stated "Moderated to remove the inclusion of a PM which is against forum rules" then we would not be having our storm in a teacup. Whilst I understand your position as regards a general comment on the post there are ways and means of expression that do not need to cause embarrassment.
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All very well, but what about the posts that aren't personal messages that are deleted? If the opinions and ideas of members stretch beyond the boundaries of model boating, some of which may be controversial then don't include a section for "Chit Chat". It is an open invitation for free speech. "Grown men" actually do have strong opinions and will express them Richard. I've never seen a post on this forum that I would regard as deliberately abusive, personal and beyond the realms of what is reasonable and therefore in need of moderation. I think everyone on the forum are generally very well behaved and moderate. What is "sad" is when adults are treated like naughty children.
Sorry Polobeer I've had my say and will not be drawn into this very drawn out thread though I will just reiterate, if you dont like it on this forum stop moaning and find another.
Now I'm back to my boat building.
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%)
Its verbal ping pong you are all playing.... each trying to score a point..
You can see the match developing....
Then in comes the Moderator and steps on the ball!
:}
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Just to put things in perspective, the actual amount of moderation on the Forum compared with the number of posts made is very, very small indeed. I think some people get things way out of proportion and prefer to believe what they would like to think is happening rather than look at what is actually happening. Or, in other words "I've made up my mind. Don't confuse me with the facts!"
Colin :police: :police: :police:
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All very well, but what about the posts that aren't personal messages that are deleted? If the opinions and ideas of members stretch beyond the boundaries of model boating, some of which may be controversial then don't include a section for "Chit Chat". It is an open invitation for free speech. "Grown men" actually do have strong opinions and will express them Richard. I've never seen a post on this forum that I would regard as deliberately abusive, personal and beyond the realms of what is reasonable and therefore in need of moderation. I think everyone on the forum are generally very well behaved and moderate. What is "sad" is when adults are treated like naughty children.
Sorry Polobeer I've had my say and will not be drawn into this very drawn out thread though I will just reiterate, if you dont like it on this forum stop moaning and find another.
Now I'm back to my boat building.
Now, I might just do that with people like you around. If you were a tad observant you might notice that I am not the only person referring to over zealous moderation. Forums are places where people discuss things - good and bad. If you find the bad to be too disagreeable then perhaps you should consider looking elsewhere at the same time as me?
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Thats the only thing that i don't like about this forum... the stupid moderator-bashing >>:-(
Read the rules, obey them, let the mods do their job and stop whining about every little mod decision >:-o
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Martin,
I believe we have reached a point where no good can come from further discussion and we could end up losing some valuable members. Please guys lets put this to bed now and have this topic locked........
Barry
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Sounds sensible Barry.
Topic Locked
Bob