Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: polaris on December 02, 2008, 07:10:08 pm
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Dear All,
About this time last year I posted a similar Post. The replies were informative and the responses numerous - all such remain within the same confidentiality - but I I can help/assist I will do so.
If anyone wishes any help/guidance any comms. all comms. will be totally private. Confidentiality is guaranteed.
Regards, Bernard
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You are a great and noble man Bernard.
Martin - Model Boat Mayhem
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Dear Martin,
Thankyou for your very generous reply... indeed, one that needed some hours of thought as to how I was to reply. Over the years I have received quite a few words of thanks for things done 'on Boards' (from recipients of suggestions and Board operators), but none at such a level as you have just deemed to do.
It unnerves me that other more 'direct association' Boards have gone quiet this last few months at a time when I thought there would be more necessity, and I have a feeling that things are just simmering at the moment - we are all wondering what's in stall I suppose. However, I feel that things are not as bad as they might seem... as we all know the media will make the most out of it - therefore I take little notice of their antics.
Your Post to my Topic prompts me to enlarge for the benefit of new members and others who may not have noticed those of last year. I will do shortly.
Regards, Bernard
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This is another topic I have NO authority on as I' almost tea total, not of principle or anything high minded,
it's I just don't appreciate the subtiles of a fine wine, a single malt whiskey or the nuances of real ale.
I, like many other I guess, used to scoff at alcoholism, blaming it on lack of self control, but I changed my mind after
watching an episode of the American political TV drama ' West Wing'. One of the lead characters gives a long, loving
and detailed description of joy of pouring out "Johnnie Walker "Blue Label"" in to a lead cut crystal glass, the sound that
the ice makes in the glass as it cracks and melts, the aroma of the whiskey in the air, the infusion of the first sip....
The character, a recovering alcoholic, concludes the scene by saying,
"It's such a wonderful experience.... why would anyone want it to stop?"
.... for the first time in my life I sort of understood the true problem of the alcoholic.
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Dear Martin,
You have hit the nail on the head fair and square: and, what you describe in your last Post can actually be frightening to some. This is good, as it can be the first step in tackling the 'denial' aspect.
I am, as many know already, a recovering alcoholic of some six + years standing. It is still a fight sometimes: one does lapse occasionally, but, thanks to the realism of things one can quickly get things back on track, and the gaps between become that much longer each time. I have no qualms whatsoever in saying what I have said, as I am simply not bothered of who knows what... firstly, I am too long in the tooth to be concerned about it, and, secondly, I don't care who knows anyway!
Somehow or another I managed for many years to run businesses and companies successfully with the underlying reliance of alcohol. The frequency of intake varied of course, but it was there all the same. The 'obligatory' business lunches, dinners, and social 'meetings', covered what was a problem (& what was becoming morso), and this obviously helped to camouflage what was really going on. Coming from and being within a hard rock mining background, 'regular' drinking is quite normal, indeed, excess is not really very noticed in this field (a Topic on a mining Forum is running at the moment as it happens). It matters nought whether one is Mgt. or workforce in this field... indeed, it might even be presumed to be an historic occupational hazard. I can enlarge if pushed! (I fully acknowledge that the smelting industries, and other similarly concentrative occupations have just the same occupational difficulties. Maritime: well, I have heard all I need to know, and know that similar applies.)
You see, there are four distinct categories: the regular, the dependent, the alcoholic, and the drunk. The regular; many fit this category (whether they like to think it or not!), the dependent, much like the first but more regularly (say two pints per day - oh, this does get the attention of one or two doesn't it!), now we come to the next stage: the alcoholic: oh, how some like to despise same! BUT, if one consumes more than the last stage on a daily basis, sorry to say it is a dependency, and it would be wise to get back to the first stage asap.. Now we get firmly to the third stage - the alcoholic. This sounds nasty doesn't it, and indeed for those afflicted IT IS, and it needs attending to. The Drunk, well, this is someone who has gone so far down the line that it is virtually irrecoverable, they cannot manage a single hour of the day without alcohol, but I doubt there is anybody reading this on here who comes into this category - however... if there might be, PLEASE email me. In general there are three courses open to recovery: 1, stop (not many can do this single handidly and I do know of quite a few self help examples - though this is extremely commendable, I do NOT recommend this route. With this and all other problems relating to same please seek help and guidance, and the answer is extremely simple. SEE YOUR GP AND TELL THEM EVERTHING. As simple as that. Yes, as Martin quite correctly says, self discipline is involved, BUT, everybody is different, and we all need different 'triggers' to get things changed and back on line, and with alcohol, it is always best to tackle the problem with help.
So, you see, I have simply 'been there and done it', and I can - if wished - be the stopgap between the 'absolutely nothing' feeling, and the start to get out of things situation.
Please IM if wanted, my email adds. is on my profile. Have no fear of constant emails (I don't do that), only continuing if the sender shows they want to continue.
Kind Regards, Bernard
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I stopped drinking and smoking in 1998. Never was an alcoholic but it is only a small step to it.
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Dear Jan,
Thankyou for your reply.
Good for you. You did well. I still smoke, BUT I know I must stop sooner or later, and speak with my GP on a regular basis on this. One thing at a time.
Regards, Bernard
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Hi Bernard
Thanks for raising this subject at this time of year when we think of ourselves within our families, immediate and beyond.
I believe I can add a fifth group: the binge drinker (before the modern use of that word - unexplained benders of days or weeks interspersed with long periods "dry" yet who find it relatively easy to renounce alcohol a) spontaneously and b) have little insight about starting again: "it's easy, I've stopped lots of times"
As a group, these individuals are much more difficult to help: they can stop when "motivated" - often with difficulty understanding the trigger or motivation. Thesreasons are often unclear and, as for another binge/bender even more so, especially to the individual involved.
That said, the real risk enumerated in today's society, are the chronic habitual over-drinkers for whom harm is not yet obvious .....yet.
Be honest with yourself - 2 pints a day and no "day-off" is risky to some (probably most): wine and beer is easy on the gut. And spirits - oh, so easy not to knock off a few before closing time! And what about those generous measures at home - the extra finger or so of your favourite spirit?
Cirrhosis, liver failure, oesophageal varices and, disaster, pancreatitis. Frequent diarrhoea or regular loose stool is often a warning sign.
Each of us needs to be honest with ourselves: Have I a problem? Who can I ask to help? Say out loud: "I am worth it"
It's our own choice! If you are honest with yourself and concerned = ask someone to help
Don't leave your family in tears when talking with the right person for you can offer so much.
Bobdoc
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Dear Bob,
I take the liberty of highlighting.
True, binge drinking is in fact an aspect solid aspect of alcolism. This fits fairly and squarly into Dependency - which in turn leads without any dount into alcolism.
Sorry to be so blunt.
Regards, Bernard
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Please: All. Contribute anything you consider applicable to this subject.
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It would have helped if I had spellchecked my last! :embarrassed:
True, binge drinking is in fact an aspect solid aspect of alcoholism. This fits fairly and squarely into Dependency - which in turn leads without any doubt into alcoholism.
Regards, Bernard.
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what was really going on. Coming from and being within a hardback mining background, 'regular' drinking is quite normal, indeed, excess is not really very noticed in this field (a Topic on a mining Forum is running at the moment as it happens). It matters nought whether one is Mgt. or workforce in this field... indeed, it might even be presumed to be an historic occupational hazard.
Hi Bernard
I didn't think I'd see such a topic on here. I'm surprised... but in a good way that the mods allow it.
I'm going to echo your coment that for 'working class', it's seen as normal for a man to stop off at a pub after work and get 'bevied' and then go home for his tea. Indeed, I've 'worked mates' with such a man (building trade) and he could do that as he never learnt to drive. When I worked with him, I'd accompny him now & then... keep him company as I was sorta single then. In fact, when I think about him, his older brother was a near full blown aclcoholic as well... he went to work in Germany and lost a brand new transit van due to 'not turning in for work' and someone took it off hm over owed money. (I think his wife would have ben picking that tab up?)
But after work drinking was normal behavior. I can take of leave it, myself, but we all have vices in one way or another.
Anyway, I wish you well. Keep up the good fight.#
p.s. around where I live now, they are closing the pubs down. There's about 6 or 7 that are within about a mile radius of me that have boarded up windows. It's an interesting social phenomenom and it's changed the face of Britain in the 21st C.
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I think [ says he] that its great that things like this can be aired.... I like a drink and would not know which group others would allocate me but I am a very lucky person
1/ I had the miss fortune of seeing Some one very dear to me slide down the self denial incline and after having tried all the group therapy units in trying to help her realise what was happening and her" losing it" when it was inferred that she was an alcoholic........well I was not prepared to watch her killing herself ....so we parted after 18 years together.
2/ whilst I can enjoy what some would regard as the occasional bender ....I don't get drunk or hungover ..... despite a few attempts.......
I enjoy a drink like most but I am sensible about it and have no wish to end up like my ex partner....
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In response, and in public, I can only say to those who have replied, how do you percieve your problem? I do not expect you to enlarge upon same in public, but if you wish to in private please feel obliged to do so. Regards, Bernard
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TCC,
With Martins direct and personal involvement in this Topic believe me no Mods. will have any influence whatsoever.
I have no fight in the matter, just my own, it's just my health that is of concern. As to others, well, it it's up to them.
Regards, Bernard.
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Please: All. Contribute anything you consider applicable to this subject.
This is not really a valid contribution - more of a request for your advice.
There is a chap called Mike who lives just spitting distance from me. He's in his late fifties by now, a clever bloke, ex Navy man, into RC planes, and an ex alcoholic. Nice bloke and all, but he's a total pain in the neck because all he talks about is how much better he is than everyone else because he's managed to kick the booze. In fact, he's such a pest that I and several others have stopped going to the field because none of us want to be near the dude. My take is that he's lying to us and himself, else why on earth does he keep on and on and on about booze? In your opinion, do you think that he really has kicked his habit?
My request is, how would you suggest telling an ex-alcoholic (in the politest way possible) to keep his big mouth shut?
He is obviously still dying for a drink, so would it be wise to buy him a bottle of his favourite tipple in order that he might leave us alone to enjoy ours?
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to keep his big mouth shut?
Sounds like you don't get along together. You can just stop talking to him, you know, say Hello and Good Bye, and just respons with Yes and Sure to everything he says. Pretend you don't hear him and ignore him in a polite way.
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Sounds like many of you think that a person can drink alcohol responsibly. It's what alcohol manufacturers want you to believe, but it's not true. If alcohol was discovered today by a pharmaceutical company as a drug, it would never be approved by the FDA because it has so many harmful side effects. So in essence, alcohol should be banned by the FDA if the same medical standards were applied.
All the best,
Jeff
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a clever bloke, ex Navy man, into RC planes, and an ex alcoholic.
I think that Polaris, (who is extremely knowlegeable on this subject) may well confirm, there is no such thing as an 'ex-alcoholic'? If you are one, it's for life? This is why the guys who attend Alcoholics Anonymous always refer to themselves as 'recovering'. Apparently, you never can never quite fully recover? Believing that you have recovered is often the first step towards the next drink.
Stopping drinking is a big deal for those who do it, and not without just cause, a bit like ex-smokers who tend to become totally anti-smoking. Your ex-Navy man is probably quite proud of the fact that he's saved his own life, and with some justification?
Malc
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Although I don't indulge in drinking alcohol, never really liked the taste, Most of my family partake and about 20 years ago my brother used to drink non stop. His excuse was that it was the stress of his job. It got to one stage that he drove home from a night of boozing, left the car running in the street and got up 3 hours later and drove to work. He has since seen the light and now falls asleep after one glass of wine at dinner. I suppose I am unique as when I was playing in the pubs with my band at the end of the night I was the only sober one. They used to think it quite strange a musician that did not drink or smoke. Is it a sign of the times where the norm is going out and getting blind drunk, yet if you don't drink you are considered a freak. One thing I could never understand was why tie in Music with the sale of alcohol. Some clubs when advertising a big act that is coming to the venue they state that the "Band Starts at 8:30" every one packs in and the band never starts until 11:00. By that time everyone, bar me, has had a skin full. Not a good practice.
Regards David
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You yourself also sound pretty knowledgeable on the subject. No doubt the ex-Navy man does feel proud of his achievement, ergo he should deserve a pat on the back. But do you know the really sad thing? He's a very bad ambassador for anyone who wants to quit their habit. Put it this way, I've never been much of a drinker. I like a pint as much as the next man, and that's it. I've also been known to enjoy the odd spliff or three. But my biggest vice is cigarettes. Now just for arguement's sake, let's assume I'm wanting to quit smoking. Let's say I'm at the stage where I'm ready and, above all, willing to give it a whirl. But how can I? I look at Mr. ex-Navy and what I see scares me witless. I'm not so stupid that I can't see that the man is suffering. And that is what terrifies me. I mean, what is the point of trying to quit when all you get in exchange is a life of doom and gloom?
I really don't know what goes on in those rehab/AA places, so I'm really in no position to be speaking of things which I know very little of. But, from an average Joe's perspective/call it ignorance, would it not be better for the ex-Navy man, and all those in similar situations, would it not be better to teach them about moderation, rather than having them quit their habit altogether? Like I said, he is a clever bloke, but you cannot escape the fact that he's also a pain in the bum. It's understandable WHY he's like he is, so would he be a happier bloke if if wasn't denying himself every day? Because if not, I am terrified at the thought of quitting smoking if it means I'm gonna end up being miserable all the time.
I reckon more folk would kick smoking/booze/drugs if they could live without fear of society turning on them for having the odd drink once in a while. Surely moderation has to be better than starvation?
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Only a slight side track but I hope helpfull to PMK.
Laid with half a dozen wires connected to a big scope after a "slight" MI this rather attractive Sarth Afrikaan lady docteress said "OK, you can stop smoking now and have a 50% less chance of having another heart attack, or you can carry on smoking and DIE"
Bit of a no brainer really, from 40 to 0 in one day with NO artificial aids. I always used to say that I would give up smoking (After 45 years)when "I" wanted to, but secretly hoped no-one would put me to it. The deciding influence was that that wicked b3tch didn't give me a time limit, but that was 6 years ago and yes, there are times I could kill a cig, after Sunday lunch etc.but I won't "Just have the one" cos it WOULD go back to 40 a day.
The secret is you've got to WANT to stop, forget patches and substitutes, and no, I'm NOT an anti-smoking pain, I have no problem with anyone else wishing to smoke like most "Converts".
I think the same rules MUST apply to alcoholism, there's no "Just the One"
It is worth the effort PMK
Regards Ian.
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I think the biggest difference is enjoying a drink and needing a drink.
I would go as far as saying that I do not drink, but that would be a lie. Beer in my house has a habit of going over the sell by date before I get to drink it,
The few times when I have felt that I REALLY need a drink, I go for the tea pot.
As a cure for the common cold, its great, As a social enhancer?
I to see a huge amount of double morals in alcohol and tobacco. We all know that Hash and Heroin are totally out of order, and in 99% of the world illegal. How many are aware that drinkind and smoking are responsible for thousands more deaths each year than all the illegal drugs combined?
I read that for every person that dies as a direct result of drugs, 1000 dies of tobacco or alcohol DIRECTLY, add to that figure, the passive smokers and the victims of drunk drivers.
There was that campaign aimed at drug missuse- "Just say no" maybe this should be redirected at all users of addictive substances.
I said to my doctor once that I had a dependency problem and they where all ears and sympathy. Untile they found out I was talking about tobacco.
If I was a drunk, I could go here or go there and get help every where.
If I was a drug addict I could get the same amount of help and even "soft" drugs to get me down.
The reaction to being a smoker; Buy some chewing gum and get over it!
Sorry for going away from the subject a bit.
Ian
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I would like to point out that the Alchoholics Anonymous (AA) view of the problem is not shared by all organisations that help alchoholics. The AA paradigm (life long disease) is helpful to many but not all.
Another view is that excessive drinking is a learned behaviour. For example, many of us in out younger days learned to drink a lot with our mates. And out bodies learned to cope (adapt, or become dependant as the case may be). And many of us now drink less than we used to, so we unlearned.
The AA world view would not have helped me with my problem and my 'mindset', as falling off the wagon would mean I have failed, therefore I might as well drink the whole bottle.
But unlearning allowed me to go out and drink, and even get drunk occasionally, without being racked with guilt and failure. I just considered that the event was 'last night' and I should lay off for a while to make up for it.
I would avoid the wines and spirits section of supermarkets unless I actually wanted to buy alcohol, so no impulse buying.
If I wanted a drink started to buy wine and beer, instead of liquor. And I would not finish off bottles of open beer or wine. I stopped worrying about the 'sinful' waste.
So from a habit of 1 bottle of liquor a night, before going to the pub. I now drink about 1 bottle of wine a month in the winter and about 10 bottles of beer a week in the heat of summer.
So I do consider my self an ex-alchoholic.
BTW I gave up smoking the same way. Occasionally I would buy a pack of cigs when I went out. In the morning I gave them to a guy at work or threw them in the bin. And said to myself, last night I was with mates in a pub so I had a smoke, so what. Today I am off cigs again.
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Dear All,
Thankyou very much to all those who have replied to this Topic. It is good to see such things being discussed openly - I didn't expect to see such interesting and numerous replies.
Being full of a wretched cold thing and feeling very fuzzy and very fed up for the last few days, I did get some alcohol yesterday (a good sweet liqueur), to ease head/chest/throat/aches. These rare lapses always leave me very cross with myself for being stupid enough to do it! - knowing that I of all people should know better! So, the first step today was to give away the remaining half of the bottle to an elderly cold sufferer elsewhere - who was very greatful for the contribution! So, an alcohol free zone again!
I have read all your Posts throughly, but, still being full of this wretched cold, will reply properly in a day or so.
Regards, Bernard
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I would like to point out that the Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) view of the problem is not shared by all organisations that help alchoholics. The AA paradigm (life long disease) is helpful to many but not all.
I didn't know that TT! What other organisations are out there?
Martin
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First I love a glass of malt, real ale and German wine and I smoke.
TT having read your post you remind me of a friend who can do what most cannot. An Ex navy man he was an ardent smoker into his forties, wakes up one morning and decides he will stop. No hassle, nothing, just stopped.
In his late fifties to prove a point I saw him smoke a cigarette big deep breaths, really enjoyed it. Finished the fag and I have never seen him smoke a another.
He is now 74 and every other Sunday lunch we meet for a quite beer and put the world to rights. He will smoke one King Edward whilst having his pint and again thats it until the next time we meet.
My point is that there are not many that can do this and for most `just one` means they are re-addicted. I have great admiration for those who can pack up the weed or after being a alcoholic can stop drinking.
Colin H.
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I am in the unfortunate position at the moment,my so called stepson is staying with us at the moment,he came down here from where he was living to get clean.
He is a heroin user and a raving alcholic,so far he has craved the drugs,as any kind of drug (apart from prescribed) is not welcome in this flat.
But he has not gone elsewhere to obtain them,with the drink,we provide a bottle of sherry a day to keep him stable,as the doctors down here are not interested/or not capapable of helping him out.
Because he is homeless,the authorities are a waste of time because he has a drug/drink addiction.
Yes i agree with what your thinking,drunk/druggie,i feel the same,i would blame them for what they are and still do.
But when i see my partner(his mum) crying/shaking with worry and under the doc for stress,i have no alternative but to try and help him.
I would personally chuck him out,get on with what he wants to do,but i know as a taxpayer,that it will cost me.
And i cant see his mum crying anymore as i love her so much,it hurts me to see her in pain.
Sorry to go on
Mark
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Mark
I'm not one for platitudes, but can't you get some professional help for his problem? It's not a burden that you should have to carry alone.
Malc
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Hi Bernard
Sorry, just back home after a very long day. Back to the "old fashioned" binge drinker ("bender man"), I'm sorry my point was not clear. Is a real variant of true alcoholism but very difficult to help, unless the victim can obtain real insight.
This is a fantastic discussion with much helpful debate. Forum "lurkers" (like myself, much of the time) may be observing these thoughts. Can they ask: Does this apply to me? Can I see "they" are describing me? Who can I seek out to help me?
AA is one organisation but lots of other sources of help exist. Family members (a word in your ear) can find it difficult to broach the problem. If they do, listen and don't dismiss .. but do seek the help that is there for you.
When individuals present seeking help, the norm is to be taken seriously and options for help and guidance openly discussed .. if you see form this debate that you might have "a problem", speak to someone. Please.
Bobdoc
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Malc
Nowhere down here seems to want to help,ring this number,get past onto ring this, after £200 phone bill back to square one
Wil persavere to keep my my other half sane,and me,fed up with paying for him to live
Mark
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Try this
http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/helpline.html (http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/helpline.html)
Malc
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Thanks Malc :-))
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I would like to point out that the Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) view of the problem is not shared by all organisations that help alchoholics. The AA paradigm (life long disease) is helpful to many but not all.
I didn't know that TT! What other organisations are out there?
Martin
The organisation I was involved in helped students with counselling services. Alchohol was one of the issues we dealt with. The leaders of which recieved advice an training form other organisations. There are also people connected to hospital counselling services and others who deal with general counselling, all of whom will have had training in giving advice on alchohol abuse.
It was through working with this organisation that I started to understand my own alchohol abuse and how I had actually learned to manage it. I no longer say myself as a lapsed (failed) alchoholic, but as someone who had got the problem under some control (partial success), and this led to me getting my problem under control.
Most of us who know of an alcholic only see the visible alcholics. That is the ragind drunk, or the AA member who (forgive me for saying this) wear the condition like a badge.
There are many who have just quietly re-learned to use alchohol and they don't want to publicise it. All would see they have a problem with alchohol, but many would not admit to being an alcholic.
Having to accept the fact that you are an alcholic is hard, and having to openly admit it is stigmatising. IMHO they are not always necessary steps and not helpful for many people.
AA is a good orgainstaion that works for many, but not for all.
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Dear All,
Well, thankfully this flu thing seems to be very much better today. What with normal unavoidable business/office commitments that must be done, aged parents who have needed the Dr. out twice this last couple of days (& need my attention), and together with a few other things that have to be done whatever be the case during a normal week, this has been a week (starting from last Sat.), that I will be very pleased indeed to see the back of! Anyway, health of all seems to be returning, it has stopped raining, and the sun is out!!!
The only way I can respond properly and efficiently to all who have taken interest in and the trouble to respond to this Topic, is to print everything out and work through them one at a time offline and do a general Post to cover all. Some of the subjects raised need careful thought, and I never do this via a 'live' reply. Firstly though, and you will please forgive me, I must first look through Posts on a couple of 'Alcohol Boards' that I am responsible for, since I have not been able to check them for the last twenty hours, and there are two 'situations' I am concerned about and must catch up on.
Regards, Bernard
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Th s came up on BBC today.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7765767.stm
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Dear Martin,
I spoke too soon... seemingly my week has not ended yet. There will be a short delay as an hour after printing everything out I was called to see my Mother who's breathing was suddenly very bad, so Dr. called and ambulance arrived. I am not going to tempt providence by saying anything, but after 'attendance' she did not have to go into hospital, and things are 'balanced'.
My promised reply will be done shortly - was half way through.
Regards, Bernard
p.s. I always like to see such things as shown in your Link. You might be very surprised at how many celebrities (very well know and known), are affected. Larry Hagman is one of my main examples I use... admirable example, and a very nice man indeed.
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(Sorry for delay, soonest could do).
Dear All,
Well, there is a pile of printout on my desk, and I worked through it and replied one page at a time! I will keep this as short as I can, but it does need a little explanation.
MARTIN. Your post of the 3rd.. You mentioned people scoffing at alcoholism in the past. Perfectly understandable, and there is indeed an element of lack of self control... however, for someone even on the verges of 'an alcohol problem', the main problem is the lack of recognition - even of a growing problem. The frequent prominence of alc. in TV & Film, and advertising, are not good, and I am surprised that whilst tobacco advertising has been banned, that stricter controls have not been applied to it's prominence in featuring in those media fields. There is no doubt that excess consumption is on the increase, and it follows obviously that 'miss use' (for want of better words), will increase in parallel. As I mentioned before, there are distinct stages in problematic drinking: the occasional normal drinker (no problem here), social drinker (no real problem but more occasional than the last), the regular drinker (this is where things start to go 'wrong' - or can go wrong), the dependent (must have every day), the alcoholic (must have regularly at various times of the day), and the drunk. Now, this latter category covers someone who simply cannot survive a day without alc. nearly continuously. They can be helped, but they are the most difficult cases. To be brief in this, all the categories can be successfully once the sufferer accepts there is a problem, and want's to do something about it. Luckily this is quite often, but some take much more time/work than others (and can be very hard work for those helping), as to the 'drunk', well, at this stage hospitalisation is the only real way to get things moving. There was a short TV series this last year, tucked away about 11am that I discovered purely by chance, and it was one that should be shown again with more prominence I feel - did anyone see it?
JAN. Again, I must stop smoking I know. Horrible stuff. I am looking at/researching another method of achieving this... but this for another time.
BOBDOC. Binge drinking is indeed a growing problem, and one that will continue until the authorities reduce the opening hours of clubs etc..
TCC. The Mods. do a very good job on this Board, and, whilst this subject is indeed not within anything modelling, it is however generally socially pertinent. During the early 1970's I spent a lot of time in the mining area of Weardale (fluorspar mining). Alcohol featured prominently in the miners social scene, and six or seven pints a night was not uncommon - and more over weekends. I stayed in a nice small pub in those days not far from Alson,, and the place used to be busy every night with locals in the village who worked in foundry at Alston: again five to seven pints a night was quite normal - indeed, no-one really took any notice of it. Anyway, the mines in Weardale are finished, and Alston foundry is long gone. In the good pay days (1972 - 85), it was quite common for 40% of wages to go to the bookies, 30% for home use, and the rest to the pubs. There were four in one village alone, but there is only one now.
PMK. An interesting Post, and I have been thinking about this. Try not to think to badly about this person. Something might no be quite right somewhere. He may indeed be highly pleased with himself for getting off alc.: we have alI come across those who have given up smoking and tell us every minute of the day about there success, even though we have heard it about thirty time before! Just for thought: to give up alcohol can be about ten times harder or more. It is just possible that this person is very pleased with themselves - justifiably - or, is hanging on by his fingernails to keep off it, and to talk about it helps keep his resolve going. I would like to make a suggestion. When you see him next, ask him what it was like to be an alcoholic. Ask him how he came off it and how difficult was it to do. The ask him if he still drinks. If he says no, then gently say, look, we are happy to help you along from time to time, but could you give us a rest from it every now and again. He will most likely apologise, but say, no need, it's just that we come here for a rest - but would be happy to talk just before we go if he wants. However, if he says he does still drink, then you will know where the problem is. You can't do anything about this yourself obviously, but suggest that he sees his Dr. as it's a shame to go so far down the line and not achieve what he wants - say this bit in private and not in front of others. Let me know what happens.
MALC. Thankyou. I made it my business to learn as much about the process as poss. at the same time (this just my nature anyway), but I have 'studied' the matter since. AA can indeed work for many, but others are not suited - me being one. I will still however say that it is an excellent facility run by excellent people, and does a great deal of first class work.
JEFF. What you say re alc. is actually right. It's addiction level is surprisingly close to Class A drugs. It's side affects are bad, not just mentally (depression/anxiety initiator), but also very physiologically debilitating - sometimes it does not need much consumption to achieve these affects. About two months ago I was invited to half day Seminar for alcohol councillors (top up course), and some of the new info. is very interesting - I am still working my way through the Papers!
DAVID. Just the culture these days I'm afraid, and it difficult to know how to handle it. I always advise of the good old solid excuses: 1), Driving, 2), on Meds., 3). It make you ill. People in the main find these easy excuses to give out, and if pushed ('you said that last time'), well, sorry, still the same.
PMK. Your second Post. Let's see what happens with what I mentioned previously. Ok, there are irritating people out there, but I think there might be something else in this case. As to what you said about moderation in consumption, sorry, doesn't work in 99% of cases. As to giving up smoking, well, we all know it's miserable for a while, but it does wear off faster than alc. addiction, though, I must admit, I am not looking forward to giving up smoking... but it's something that I MUST do... I know it is not doing me any good.
IAN. Most GP's will take a plea for help to give up smoking seriously. Far better to get something done about it 'now', rather than have it possibly develop into something nasty later on. You hit the nail on the head about WANTING to stop addictive things, this is absolutely true. This comes a bit into the denial category, but it is too long a subject to launch into here.
TIGER TIGER. True what you say re AA. It does suit many, but it is not for some. If, however, someone is cut out for it, it is first class, and I have seen a great many successes. I have helped 'all sorts', high and low, and have had one or two surprises with people who I thought would not get on with it. There are of course all sorts of other things than can be attended/arranged via gnrl. counselling, that are not on the lines of AA (so, please, anyone reading this, there are all sorts of routes open).
MARK. If you want numbers and suggestion please IM.
BOBDOC. Re you last Post. This is half the problem... people will not talk about it. Obviously there is denial, and this must be overcome first. It is surprising how quickly positive results can be achieved once this hurdle is overcome.
MALC. There is indeed help. The fast track route is for the sufferer to see a GP and simply say they can't cope with it. Many GP's I come in contact with are only too happy to help such cases... again, far better to treat the problem sooner rather than later - saves having to put the pieces back together later on (much harder to do obviously).
CRAFTYSOD. Please PM me if you wish as this is not a matter I would like to address on the Board.
Regards to All, Bernard
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For anyone reading all this who thinks they might have a problem with alcohol, the all the Posts on this Topic is a good rough guide as to what everything is all about. However, there is more too it, and I would be pleased to help/suggest routes if wished. Please ONLY IM, and my email adds. is on my profile.
Regards, Bernard
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Mr. Polaris, first let me get this out the way......
I've been following this thread from since you started it going. In that short time it's already ran to two pages. Also in that short time I couldn't help but notice all the honesty from everyone. I think maybe you deserve a bit of recognition for what you've done here. I kind of admire the way you had the balls to admit your battle with the booze -- the openness, the honesty. What I'm saying is, I admire the way you broached this subject. You did it all nice and mellow, without being directly in anyone's face.
Nice move, dude, because from where I'm sitting, I'm still sitting, whereas ordinarily I would have left this thread at the first whiff of 'patronising' and 'git'.
But you didn't do any of that caper. So that deserves a bit of respect.
To answer your question...
Michael the ex-Navy man has not touched a drop since the day he went into a room and announced to a bunch of strangers he was an alcoholic. That was eight years, three months, fourteen days, nine hours and thirty-five minutes ago, is what he told me. You see, Michael is still counting every second since his last drop. EVERY second. Now do you see what I'm saying? Michael is a tortured man. He is also a liar. He's lying to himself, just won't admit that he's not yet done with the sherry. And because of that, it's making him the most miserable sod on the planet.
I disagree when some say that 'just one' would be fatal. It doesn't have to be like that at all. In Mike's case all he has to do is go to the pub and have a real good blow-out. Like I said, he's not stupid. He's knows all there is to know about navigation, sextons, longitude, stars, ships, latitude, the sea, John Harrison... He really is a clever a bloke. He's already been up Alkie Street so judging from the way he's suffering it's obvious he don't want to go back there. And then he'll be able to go to the pub again and enjoy a drink without getting sloshed.
You mind if I bung you a question?
You're toying with the idea of quitting smoking, right?
How do you fancy making a little pact/deal/attempt at giving it a whirl?
I don't know how many I smoke each day, I've never counted. But on average I can do a 50g pack of baccy in 7, maybe 8 days. I don't know how many you smoke each 7 or 8 days, but what say you in we make a joint venture? What if you cut your weekly amount to, say, 25% for the same given time, and I'll do ditto.
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This is a useful and thought provoking topic but it might be as well to remind all concerned that we should keep it at a general level of discussion and not get too much into specifics. Polaris has made it clear in his initial post that he is happy to respond to PMs and would prefer personal information to be treated confidentially. I think he is absolutely right to do this. Otherwise there is a danger that the topic will become something of a "confessional" which is something to be avoided on a public forum.
Colin
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That good advice, I go along with that.
Martin.
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Dear Martin and Colin and All.
Colin is absolutely right in what he says, and Martin likewise in endorsing it. I fully agree, and think there is now quite enough general background info. for general thought on this Topic. I am grateful to all those who have troubled to make such a valuable contribution to it - I did not expect such a response.
PMK I will PM you if I may and continue down that avenue please. If you would give me a day or so I would be grateful, whilst my cold/flu has gone, others are not very well and 'things need to be done'. It is a pity I started this Topic when I did really, as I didn't expect everything healthwise at home to unexpectedly explode in my face! It has left the thread of things a bit disjointed... irritating, but however I think it's come together in the end. I was determined to reply to everybody, so apologies for the long Post - far better than about ten + separate Posts!
I will be pleased to comm. off-Board with anyone who wants to talk about things connected with this matter (or any addictive problems)... and indeed at any time in the future. So I think it's time to conclude this Topic, but, please, if anyone has any questions, please PM or email me... you will always get a reply.
Thankyou once again to all who have participated. All your comms. have been important.
Kind Regards to All, Bernard