Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Ramon on December 08, 2008, 12:12:01 pm
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Hi, I'm new to the forum and though not 'new' to model boats it is some thirty years since I built my last one. About 1970 I ventured from flying model aircraft into boats for a short period via encouragement from a new member to our club. (With no model boat club in the area 'Arthur' joined us aeromods). We soon became good friends and with his enthusiasm for the subject it was not long before he twisted my arm. Arthur worked for the local Ford agent and brought round this stunning poster of the (Ford) 1966 Round Great Britain Powerboat entries. We both got Aerokit Swordsman kits and we finished them as '707' (his) and '909'(mine). Both were powered by Merco 35s and ran extremely well. I later fitted a Merco 61 in mine but it was somewhat overpowered (!) and would roll over as the power and torque came on. An Aerokits PT boat followed with an OS 40 in and then interest turned to the Naviga 30 metre triangle timed event. Just before overseas work led to the (rapid) decline in activity I was running an OPS 60 in an ED produced glass hull which was far faster than my reactions would ever stay up with!
So here we are near forty years after that first foray and a recent chance encounter with an old aeromodelling friend led to me being asked if I could help to sell some marine engines for another, mutual, friend who had recently passed away.
It has to be said that when the engines arrived the (used) OPS 60 and HP61 among them re-kindled what I thought were long dormant interests so here I am second time round only this time with this wonderful medium by which to share and learn from.
I am about to start another Fairey boat, this time the Huntsman (which is actually the correct design for the '66 RGBPBR) from the Vic Smeed plan and again in conjunction with a good friend and though this is obviously a popular boat thought that it would be beneficial to some, yours included, if the build was shared.
Any thoughts or comments?
Regards - Ramon
PS This is the only pic I have of the original boats
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ST0N-TUQ3II/AAAAAAAAAgw/8f2wYgohhLw/s512/Model%20Boats%20at%20Gunton%20Hall.jpg)
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Our prototype Modav (later Precedent) 1/8 scale Huntsman 31 was powered with the revolutionary Schneurle-ported HP61F R/C. It was the most powerful 2-stroke 10cc glow motor on the market at the time; 1 BHP. Now check the spec of the latest 0.65cu in OPS or similar.....scary!
FLJ
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WELCOME BACK :-)) "another blast from the past" like me.
Love the tuned pipe :-) bet that was,nt below 80db.
Gary.
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hi Ramon,
I have a Huntsman 28 being refurbed, its 40 odd inches long, I thought it was a 1/12 scale, are you sure your project is 1/8th?
Its been a very long job, almost 2 years! between other projects. I have just finished the deck planking, so its coming along nicely now, really looking forward to getting it finished, its a superb looking boat.
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Huntsman 28 = 28 feet long (more or less), so a 1/12 scale model would be 28 inches (1/12 is 1"=1'). 28' x 12 = 336" full size; 1/8 x 336" = 42" for the model.
Your model just got bigger!
FLJ
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You say you have an HP61? Youll want to run it on straight castor oil fuel, because if you run it on a synthetic fuel, not even the throttle stick will stop it...
Welcome back to the hobby :-))
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And of course, a lovely Starlet as well.
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Hi everyone thanks for the response.
I’ve been busy today setting up the keel and dry fitting the bulkheads.
I’m pleased to hear the HP61 is so highly rated, the example I have is the first one in many, many engines (mainly aero) owned over the years. It is in reasonable condition but will have to have a manifold attached for the exhaust system. As received it had a ‘strap on’ type sealed with a pound of silicone but doesn’t look as if it’s had much running so I’m hoping that that will not have influenced wearing the bore too much. I’d certainly like to hear more from anyone with experience of this engine
FLJ is quite correct about the scale, I had always thought that the ’66 RGB PBR boats were all Swordsman but since researching it this time it soon came to light that only one (606) was and the other three (707, 808, 909) were Huntsman 28’s. I had always believed that the Huntsman was only built with an aft cabin but now know that this was an updated version on the basic design – I think that the Aerokits version was of this type which is probably the root of my confusion.
I’m hoping for a bit speedier build PMD but wish you luck in getting yours finished.
And yes that is a Starlet built by my work colleague Ken Akerman. Was that really thirty six years ago? Were db’s even invented?
Regards - Ramon
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ST2k1CrweyI/AAAAAAAAAhw/BERy-WV2row/s144/DSCN1131.JPG)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ST2k3yeNxcI/AAAAAAAAAiA/BHN3zr6fG3M/s576/DSCN1133.JPG)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ST2k4toKg8I/AAAAAAAAAiI/wMRYZcmZjPY/s576/DSCN1134.JPG)
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Hi Ramon
606 Seaspray in the 1969 Round Britain race was a Huntsman as were the other 3 you mention, the Swordsman was a larger boat at 33".
Lot of good info on the Fairey Owners Club site http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/default.asp (http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/default.asp)
HTH
Richard
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Ramon
That's the baby, except the carb doesn't look original Hirtenberg. We used the huge aero silencer simply as a manifold, and connected the outlet to a Ripmax Marine Silencer and thence to a transom-mounted outlet via a couple of miles of copper and silicon tube. Life was carefree when Ripmax were picking up the tab. ;)
FLJ
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Hi Guys,
Just popped in from the shed for a coffee and thought I'd check this.
I stand corrected Tester, you are of course quite right. I was quoting from memory (bad thing - quoting that is, but then the short term memory is not so bright either!) from an email I had received from the motor boat museum. Having just checked it I had completely misread it. Must be signs of my age! It stated that all four boats were indeed Huntsman and that the safety boat was the Swordsman. My apologies for a misleading statement. Thanks for the link too though have been there before.
FLJ. The carb I believe is a Perry or Kavan. I have no experience of them and the guys at the local water say they can be quite difficult to set up on the idle. As you see the engine it's as received except for removal of the manifold. The internals however appear to be in very good order but I intend to strip and rebuild it as it is a bit gummed and add a permanent manifold - more later. I'm assuming the marine silencer was not a pipe - any details on this, nitro used, prop etc would be appreciated. (I shall be making the silencer to fit the aft bay)
In the meantime its back to the boatshed.
Regards Ramon
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Nope - that carby isn't a Perry (because they had a black plastic body with a brass idle wheel at one end) nor a Kavan - they had a straight-through needle and spraybar. I think the old ED company had a stab at making RC carbs for a manufacturer called Red Shift, back in the 70's. This looks like one of those but I'm not certain. The Perry carbs were indeed a b1tch to set up and after a while the O-ring inside perished and was the very devil to get out and replace. The Kavan carb was a better-behaved beast, but I have no experience of the ED one (if that be what it is, my dear).
I can't find any reference to the Ripmax Marine Silencer in their present catalogue. This is not surprising, as it wasn't very quiet - certainly compared with a modern tuned pipe. The nearest one looks like the Irvine Marine Silencer, being a straight-through type but probably with a perforated tube and baffle plates inside. This only suits up to a .45 cu in engine, although these days even a modest "forty" will likely churn out more power and noise than the old HP61 did.
Ref fuel, we always used 80% methanol, 15% castor or synthetic oil, and 5% nitro. Went like stink and with a reliable idle, too - but the model got to smelling like a multi-storey car-park stairwell after a while............... :o
Ah, sweet memories!
FLJ
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Talking to Trevor at the club, I advise agaisnt using nitromethane at all, it just gets faster and faster and then sticks various parts through the crankcase that most definately shouldnt be through the crankcase.
Model Technics still do straight castor oil fuel, and on the plus side it's much cheaper than nitromethane fuels, £8.30 a gallon as opposed to £14 upwards
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Talking to Trevor at the club, I advise agaisnt using nitromethane at all, it just gets faster and faster and then sticks various parts through the crankcase that most definately shouldnt be through the crankcase.
Model Technics still do straight castor oil fuel, and on the plus side it's much cheaper than nitromethane fuels, £8.30 a gallon as opposed to £14 upwards
Maybe so, old dear, but this is a 40 year old engine we're discussing. They do things differently with the metallurgy, ports, timings and such stuff these days; that's why the new motors are so much more powerful than the old ones.
My fault I'm getting old, I suppose................
FLJ
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Indeed it is, I have two Merco .61's, one even older than this HP
A modern Novarossi or Picco .21 will probably chuck out the same power as a Merco, and a Picco or O.S .45 will chuck out about twice that of the HP
A HP will put out about 1 hp, the latest PIP A-45H is currently developing 3.5 hp. Same for rpm, about 20,000 for the HP, and 32,000+ for the PIP. I know which I would rather have in my Crusader...
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Hi guys, its very interesting to read your input on the carb, silencer and merits of the venerable IC motor.
Firstly the carb. When these engines came my way both the OPS and HP are fitted with them. I took the OPS over to the local water. No one was sure on my thoughts (guess) of Perry or Kavan but FLJ, one of them also thought it might have been made by ED. I vaguely remember the Red Shift engines - weren't these aimed mainly at the R/C aerobatics and or scale aeromodelling fraternity? Apart from my short foray into boats in the seventies virtually all the engines I have been involved with were non R/C standard carb and used mostly for control line aerobatics, an event where throttles are not required and something I have concentrated on over the years.
I shall check out the Irvine, my thoughts are of an expansion chamber underneath the well deck built from ally tubing and JB welded together.
Regarding nitro I was interested in as much as - did the 1 bhp get produced using lots of it? I've used 5% in my engines for many years and am well used to it's properties at that level so I'm glad (relieved!) to hear I won't have to change anything greater.
Anyway, regarding power I thought it would be a good use of this (old) engine in a fairly bulky but reasonably fast and hopefully stable boat for my first venture back on the water. I do have other engines I could use but felt this to be an ideal use for this old warhorse.
Thanks again, this really is a great medium for discussion. I've had a good session in the workshop today and got all the bulkheads lightened, glued in and the first stringers in place. Roll on tomorrow. :-) Ramon
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ST76PksugpI/AAAAAAAAAj0/HLeVWUx2TA4/s576/DSCN1139.JPG)
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Hi,
Ref to the carb, Yes it is an E.D. carb, I used the same carb fitted onto the rear of my old OPS 40. SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEMED.
I got mine from Weston models back in the 70s, Alan Greenfield is still there, there may be spares for them in
his shop, collecting dust.
Gary.
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Hi Gary, That's cleared that up then. What's your opinion on the throttle setting characteristics ie idling.
Haven't got far on the hull today due to distraction - spent most of the day catching up with three modelling mates who happened to turn up one after the other just as I was getting ready to lay in the next stringer lamination! Ah well we did have a good old rabbit though.
In what spare time I did find between visits and waiting for the glue to grab I turned my thoughts to stripping the engine. As i said before it's a bit gummed and the flywheel and cylinder head cooling jacket are quite solid. Before I get some heat on it to see if that will help and I'm sure it will can anyone remember how they actually fit? eg is the flywheel on a tapered collet? With the cylinder bolts out it appears that the head clamps the water jacket down on the cylinder and so into the crankcase. Any memories on this FLJ or others?
that's it for now - back to the stringers! - yours - Ramon
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Nope - I'm afraid I have trouble remembering what we just had for dinner, except for the occasional glimmer into the long past.
I do remember that Spray Gun Oil was the recommended stuff for keeping the motor working. It contains something that neutralises the nitro-methane and stops the corrosion caused by the resulting nitric acid. This was from a R/C car world champ called Dave Preston, who was a big mate of the guy who ran Pegasus Models in Nottingham in about 312BC........when I was 'Shop Assistant' there.
I never did strip down the HP61 - it belonged to Ripmax, and Len Hooley was very jealous of his engines!
FLJ
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Morning FLJ,
Looks like a step into the unknown then. I've stripped and rebuilt quite a few over the time but didn't want to dive in blind so to speak. I'm now off out to see an old ME friend but will get the heat gun out when I get back - will keep you posted - R
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My second Merco .61 was completely gummed, would not move at all.
I got a sturdy plastic box (butter pot is fine, but not ice cream tub - they melt. Put the engine in flywheel upwards, fill with glow fuel up to the top of the carb. Leave for a couple of days (mine needed a week), the glow fuel will evaporate a bit, and it should turn over nicely. Remove the head and if you want, the back plate and turn over for a while to get the crud out, if needed, use an old toothbrush. While youre at it all the gunk you may have on the side of the engine will come off nicely. VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT NOTE, Don't turn over the engine while its in the fuel, because as I learnt it squirts out the carb into your face. Glow fuel in the eyes is not at all good.
Please for your sake do this in the shed, on the floor, because it the pot does melt by the fuel SWMBO will kick you out and it's cold out there at the moment...
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Thanks for the tip Andy, especially about the kitchen floor, HI would be well impressed!
You know, I’ve stripped quite a few engines but have never given a thought to soaking them in fuel to loosen them off. Just never occurred!!! And you’re dead right about fuel in the eyes – very nasty indeed and something to be avoided at all costs.
I’ve normally found that heating with a hot air gun then a small drop of cellulose thinners through the port and intake will get things moving - it’s quick too but you mustn’t over do the thinners as this will soon take off the all the castor leaving a dry engine. Cellulose won’t shift the baked on crud though but I found tonight that a soak in acetone has done a half reasonable job on the HP’s cylinder head.
Yep - I managed to get it off okay with some help with said heat gun - very easily in fact - to find that the water jacket is a separate entity that surrounds the liner. The liner itself was a little more difficult but came out okay with a bit more heat but the flywheel was an absolute ‘bugga’ due to a previously damaged/deformed collet and suffered slightly as a result!
Still it’s all apart now and the insides are looking very good indeed. Despite the crud around the exhaust it looks as if this motor had very little running. No evidence of the effects of nitro either. Very beefy crankshaft and some very impressive porting on the cylinder.
The carb came apart okay too but the post has been damaged by over tightening the clamp. The previous owner had ‘whanged’ a 4mm cap head right through the intake to keep the carb on so that will need renovating but apart from that and the collet it should be a straightforward clean and rebuild.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SUGJr45Ge_I/AAAAAAAAAkw/w1osFHmFGtQ/s576/DSCN1140.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SUGJvQyiB2I/AAAAAAAAAlU/Bg6TzuqKNng/s576/DSCN1148.JPG)
Now I know it’s a bit early in my build but I need some advice on couplings. All those years ago the only coupling that appeared to tolerate the forces involved on my OPS60 was one produced by Rip-Max. It had two bossed discs facing each other with a flat nylon(?) disc about 3mm thick between supported on two posts from each disc. The discs were chromed and the whole thing looked good and worked extremely well.
I have two ‘Huco’ couplings that were with some other bits and pieces with these engines and appear to be a 'variation on a theme'
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SUGJxAqKaQI/AAAAAAAAAlk/HteZyPgfNoc/s576/DSCN1150.JPG)
Question is, are these couplings up to the HP 61 and if not what would others recommend. I’m using a standard straight 2BA shaft.
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Thanks FLJ! Great news, my boat is bigger than I thought!
re couplings, are these any good? The plastic things commonly used are really struggling in my Fireboat with the torque, and thats only electric, I was thinking of these
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=retrieveTfg&binCount=7&Ne=4294957561&Ntt=Set+screw+style+jaw+coupling&Ntk=I18NAll&Nr=AND%28avl%3auk%2csearchDiscon_uk%3aN%29&Ntx=mode%2bmatchallpartial&N=4294954315&Nty=1
Its a big link I know, but just tried it and it does work :-)
Ramon, nice seeing the Hunts being built from scratch, mine was in a bit of a sorry state when I got it, its been taking ages,. the latest problem being this
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=14359.0
but very little info has come back, and its now a dead topic really :((
Here is a pic from the summer, and one more recent, its a lovely looking boat, keep us informed with progress. One regret, I took the cabin roof off, as the original had a big section that came off, and I didnt really like it. Whilst rebuilding, I decided to leave the removeable section, to access a sound unit and speaker in the future, sorry now I didnt just make a one piece roof :((
Sorry about grainy photos, they are from a phone
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/pmdevlin/SP_A0119.jpg)
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff100/pmdevlin/DSCF0494.jpg)
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Thanks for the link PMD. Couple of things from that - first they appear to be okay for the job in hand something FLJ confirms and very reasonably priced. Second was that I'd never given RS a thought since I finished work, we used them all the time then but I've been under the misapprehension that they were for trade only. That was the good bit the not so good was I then spent most of the morning looking through the online catalogue! Wonderful stuff!!
Good to see the pics of your boat. I’ve long been convinced that building a new one is near always easier than refurbing, renovating or major repairing so my hat is off to you, keep up the good work, you'll get there in the end. It’s interesting to see the different construction particularly in the cabin area, I’m not keen on that mid full bulkhead on the Smeed design and wished I’d given it a bit more thought. Still this is meant to be a standoff scale ‘get me back on the water’ build and once the cabin sides are on it will disappear.
FLJ Thanks for your PM's regarding the couplings. I've only just realised today that you run an electrics(tronics) business so your interest, input and offer of help on an IC matter is extremely appreciated.
Despite the lure of the RS catalogue I have had a good session today and managed to get the stringers all on along with the engine rails (dry fitted at the moment) etc. I don’t know if anyone else has tried it but I am using ‘Titebond lll’ PVA glue which, it is claimed, is waterproof. That remains to be seen but what is impressive is its extremely quick ‘grab’ time even on parts that are under stress eg on the stringer ‘pull’ in at the bows. I’ve used the standard Titebond before to good results but this is a definitely superior product and reasonably priced too.
Before I can get the bottom skins on I will need to get the engine rails drilled before I can fit them so that means turning to the engine and mount rails next. Here’s how it looks so far
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SULMZO7WZ_I/AAAAAAAAAm8/4-JHP8E0gZk/s576/DSCN1155.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SULMbAnWImI/AAAAAAAAAnM/DHKFVXD0_aM/s576/DSCN1157.JPG)
Back soon - Ramon
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looks really nice :-))
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Hi there,
I didn’t intend to post quite yet as not much progress has been made on the Huntsman but a friend called tonight and brought a couple of interesting items.
Firstly though, the HP 61 is rebuilt and I’m very pleased with it. Despite it’s very gummed up and knocked about appearance as received I don’t believe this has had very much running at all. The fits on the parts are some of the best I’ve seen and it has gone back together extremely well. I can’t wait to see it running. I have been working on the engine mounting so that I can get the rails drilled before putting the lower skins on but a good dose of the seasonal ‘man flu’ (oh yes indeedy!) has kept me out of the workshop for a few days. Heres how it looks so far.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVFO9nXx5lI/AAAAAAAAAs0/9rEK1Jdiap4/s576/DSCN1171.JPG)(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVFO86PX_bI/AAAAAAAAAss/p9iEhYHgWF0/s576/DSCN1169.JPG)
John, who had passed these engines to me in the first place had found the original box for the carb which confirms indeed that it was an ED product. (Not that that was in doubt GaryC).
Inside the box however yet another carb which is different again. I haven’t pulled it to bits yet but it appears to have two spray bars one inside the other, closing off the fuel outlet as it is closed. It also has some kind of valve arrangement at the base of the carb body which is closed (opened?) by a tapered faced extension to the throttle arm.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVFPBlYJoFI/AAAAAAAAAtc/c7feQyWGAV0/s576/DSCN1179.JPG)
The other end to this valve has a conventional fuel tube nipple screwed into the body. At the moment this appears blocked.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVFO_TwdceI/AAAAAAAAAtE/2u8EXk0CvIQ/s576/DSCN1175.JPG)
Despite the post having been ‘chewed’, probably to fit a smaller venturi apperture, the mechanical movement of this unit is exceptionally smooth – it certainly has a well made appearance about it. It's quite heavy though - over 2 1/2 ozs. - a bit on the heavy side for aircraft?
Any ideas anyone? Is it the original HP or OPS both of which have been retro fitted with ED types (I don’t remember this from the OPS I ran in the ‘70’s) Is it worth renovating?
Regards and Xmas wishes to you all - Ramon
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Oooh shiney....
I think, on balance, it would be best to use the first carb you had. If it doesn't work, I have a couple lying about the place you are welcome to.
You machine that manifold port? looks very nice.
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I think that this is a Kavan carby, chaps - although my memory isn't what it used to be. BTW that excellent fit was achieved because the manufacturers - Hirtenberg - were gun makers, too.
FLJ
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Hi Guys, thanks for the response.
Yes I did make the manifold Andy - skimmed the outside on the crankcase then machined the manifold to fit. It's 'glued' in position using 'JB Weld' with two 8ba screws through the ends. I've used JB Weld before to make silencers and it stood up extremely well but these were for motors that revved much lower ergo not so much heat. It will be interesting to see how it stands up in this situation. Excellent product though.
FLJ - Interesting to hear that this is a Kavan carb. I've taken a better look at it this morning and the valve at the lower corner is nothing more than a schrader type valve which vents as the throttle is closed. I can only assume that this would be connected to the fuel tank to allow the tank pressure to dissipate as the throttle closes. Thinking about it a bit more it would probably help on starting too - in not allowing pressure to force fuel through and flood the engine.
Only very rarely have I used pressure feed on my control line engines, never with any success or benefit and consequently have little kowledge about it. These engines, always hand started, were mainly set up on 'Uniflo' tanks which give a very consistent run but they of course had small venturi's with very good suction.
I shall have a go at renovating it but will stick to Andy's advice and keep to the ED carbs initially at least
I'm now feeling much better and was hoping to get in the workshop and get going on those mounting bars but SWMBO has just kindly reminded me that its Xmas Eve today and Xmas Day tomorrow! Is it? Really? Why do they always notice these things?
Regards - Ramon
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Its christmas??
News to me...
Having more bits on a carb means more bits to set up and ultimately more bits to go wrong... I think you are wise to take my advise, and another point is as it's already on there, which usually means it works...
Andy :-))
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Nuff said - if it ain't broke etc. springs to mind.
I shall press on regrundless
Have a good one - back soon ! - R
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Hi everyone, hope you all got what you wanted!!
Despite the Chrimble distractions have managed to escape here and there and make a bit of progress.
Got the engine mounted in it’s frame. This is the first time I‘ve installed an engine like this, last time it was a ‘paxolin’ plate bolted to two beech bearers P38’d into the hull! Wasn’t quite sure how to go about this at the outset – note the packing pieces! but the installation seems positive and in line. The prop tube is not finally installed as yet, that will be after the lower skins are on.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVfBEBrzQtI/AAAAAAAAAvg/ztWyNnA3Vkk/s576/DSCN1189.JPG)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVfA-gZcCKI/AAAAAAAAAu0/ekjwdMP2WT8/s576/DSCN1181.JPG)
Rough planed the chine stringers down to the bulkheads on the bottom surface and planed and faired them in on the sides ready for the 1.5mm ply side skins which got fitted today. It’s beginning to look a bit like a boat now.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVfBADMi7DI/AAAAAAAAAu8/9IDyD3vqCy0/s576/DSCN1182.JPG)(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVfBC3gaXiI/AAAAAAAAAvY/3kOEE71Kprk/s576/DSCN1187.JPG)
I intend to fit the bottom skins (also 1.5mm) as my early Swordsman and as shown to me at the time by my friend Arthur
This involves cutting the two panels as accurately as possible to the ‘run’ of the keel and stem line and then drilling small holes along the (keel) edge and loosely ‘stitching’ together using copper wire. The holes get progressively closer at the turn of the keel to the stem. When the panels are opened up like a book they form a natural and symmetrical shape into which the hull frame work is ‘pushed’. Held in place the insides are then coated with resin – poly or epoxy which is allowed to flow filling any gaps. The result should be two stressed skins uninfluenced by any bulkhead deviation.
Bear in mind this is a thirty year memory – I ‘remember’ it worked well on the Swordsman but it was along time ago. A couple of more days should see whether said memory is right!
Anyone any thoughts on this process? Any input would be valued.
Back later - Ramon
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http://www.mecoa.com/acc/carbs/index.htm
Just as a matter of pride, really. See? I can remember important things!! Thinking back, I'm sure that Kavan also made a "pressure" carb, which explains why there's a bleed valve on the lower corner. The R/C aerobatic boys used to use these carbys in the early 70's, with tank pressure from the engine crank-case to maintain an even mixture throughout the flight. This was in the days of the Webra 61, the OS 60 FRC, the HP61 and sundry indies like the Redshift. They also went like greased weasel pooh. Then someone invented the backplate-mounted fuel pump and the tuned exhaust and things were never quite the same again. I retired to 1/2A and Quarter Midget Pylon Racing for a quiet life.........
That model is looking pretty darned good from where I sit. I wish I had the time for building. <:(
FLJ
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Nice clean tidy construction. :-))
I like the engine mount which cuts down viberation and noise, with plenty of room for the starting belt. Good solid looking glow engine with waterjacket on the head and well grooved flywheel. Very strong coupling between engine and shaft. :-))
Seaspray
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You might find that the rear rail bolts on that engine mount are a right b****** to get undone once everything is all sealed up, make sure you leave plenty of room for access and make sure before you put the deck on that you can get all the bolts undone, and once again when you put the deck on.
Looking great so far, whereabouts in the country are you?
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Hi all - thanks for the input. According to the chart FLJ, the carb inlet meets the OPS 40 -60 listing though what engine the bottom end has been chewed to fit laud knows. Can't help thinking though that if it will be okay for the 40 that it would be a little restrictive on the 60.
Andy - Regarding the mounting I had been thinking of this but thanks anyway for the timely reminder, very good advice. Follows good engineering practice - don't make anything you can't take apart!! I intend to mill a slot in the outer plates which will hold the nuts and removal of the well deck will give plenty of access to bolt heads. I'm in Suffolk BTW - not a mllion miles away! Place called Beccles
A little bit more progress has been made as below.
The sides are on and have been faired to the chines on the lower hull
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVoqkSdv-3I/AAAAAAAAAxU/He3a_wAtfDo/s576/DSCN1194.JPG)
A couple of layers of stringer have been added to give a better glue surface at the bows and faired off
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVoqlHbolEI/AAAAAAAAAxc/44mOZDRX6pw/s576/DSCN1197.JPG)
Card template of the bottom skins made and checked for fit
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVoql3XAWeI/AAAAAAAAAxk/IT-IHt4riy4/s576/DSCN1199.JPG)
The transom as drawn had to have the chines moved upwards and the transom trimmed. I decided to build up the outer corners and fair these give an upward trim effect to counter the loss of 'vee'.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVqif5LC7_I/AAAAAAAAAyk/1YmmW6LARZg/s576/DSCN1202.JPG)
It's now back on it's jig and sides planed down to the chines. Decided to fit the decks and fit out the sides of the well deck from this point on which will allow waterproofing the underside of the decks before the bottom skins go on.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVqihee2sbI/AAAAAAAAAy0/5rfmZXYMcAY/s576/DSCN1205.JPG)
The transom having been faired off and some infil applied. This will be planed off to give the deck camber.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVqigihEWhI/AAAAAAAAAys/63S7Kz_buzQ/s576/DSCN1203.JPG)
Back soon - Ramon
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Looks great, a very simalar hull shape to my Hellcat but with a much deeper transom. If you fancied a trip up one sunday morning to see us you are most welcome however best leave it until the summer because the lake is frozen over at the moment... on the plus side it gives you plenty of time to finish it :-))
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Great build and great quality photos Ramon, I'm quite envious! :-)
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Keep the build picture coming very nice build.
Seaspray
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what a lovely job Ramon, I am very envious, my skills will not allow me to do that sort of job, Fine on refurbs, but not from a scratch build. One thing to think about, that is a real annoyance on my Hunts, If you need acess to that large cabin area, for your electrics, a sound unit etc etc, how do you plan to do that? I hate the access panel on mine (from the top) It ruins the nice cabin roof. You might want to consider an opening door or something as its a nice big area that once sealed up is lost. I was also thinking about access incase of accident damage to the hull? Just a thought, :-))
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Thank you for your kind comments guys, I've just spent some time on today's update but the computer has devoured it!! It's much too late to do it all again so happy New Year to you all
Back again in the New Year! - Ramon
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Hi again, I hope I can get this right tonight!
Again, thanks for your kind comments on the build. Whilst I haven’t made a boat for over thirty years the techniques used have been well honed on building model aircraft – it’s been fairly straightforward – just exchanged balsa for ply and the scalpel for the bandsaw! That’s not to be flippant, ‘building’ is one thing it’s the technical side where a steep learning curve should be readily apparent.
The photo’s? Well that’s definitely down to the camera – a 2 mega pixel ‘Nikon Coolpix 2000’ bought a few years back at what seemed an exorbitant price and now they virtually give that size away with the cornflakes! It does have an excellent macro facility though and is so easy to use.
As you can see there has been a bit more progress. I’m quite surprised at this myself but then it is all the ‘big bits’ getting stuck on at the moment. Things will slow down once the ‘fiddly bits’ begin.
This shows fitting a couple of supports for the deck at the bows. Incidentally does anyone know of a source of these small clamps? they came three in a pack for a pound and I'd dearly love to get some more.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwFw14_LcI/AAAAAAAAA0o/i3l1dgp2qEo/s576/DSCN1209.JPG) (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGKRHx4PI/AAAAAAAAA0w/zKJA0DDbVsE/s144/DSCN1210.JPG)
Water proofing the bows and underneath the deck using two pack Tufcote fuel proofer. The benefit of using this as opposed to other resins is that it dries very quickly on the workpiece but remains very fluid in the mixing cup for several hours.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGLX1K_5I/AAAAAAAAA04/P-_IaFTjHlU/s576/DSCN1212.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGNC3_P3I/AAAAAAAAA1A/QnMfatY5tE4/s576/DSCN1214.JPG)
I’ve decided to leave the hull skins to the last minute so that it will still fit in it’s building jig for working on the top side.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGN6Qhq5I/AAAAAAAAA1I/QJODf8RQw5I/s576/DSCN1215.JPG)
Regarding the cabin PMD I’m hoping to make the whole roof removable from just in front of the windscreen. If memory serves me right I think that’s how the original Aerokits Swordsman was done. Looking at the drawings of the Huntsman though I’m certain the roof has much more camber than the Swordsman (kit) so this may make the forming of ply to the compound curves involved very awkward if not impossible though it may be possible to ‘flatten out the curve on the bulkheads a little to improve matters a little. I’m not that far off – next session will be to fit the well deck sides and then dry fit the cabin sides.
Thanks for the invitation Andy I’ll bear it in mind and as I’m definitely a fair weather person these days the ‘Summer’ it will have to be .
Once again a Happy New Year to you all, back soon - Ramon
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very intresting, and its looking good mate, keep the pics coming :-))
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I agree Ramon, I wanted a one piece roof section, removeable, when I stripped the roof off. If you have a look at my pics from much earlier in this thread, the roof does have a difficult camber, and I was restricted with the frame work that was already in place. I just could not do it! :(( so resorted to the central section as pictured. I am going to try and hide the section, by taking it to the windshield, and to the roof grab rail, so in theory only the front of the removeable section will be visible, it I manage to get it neat enough, then that will do. I really fancy a sound unit when I can find one that sounds right, and the pocket permits! , so want the acess to the cabin.
Just finished the planking today, windshiled next :-))
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They're loads of G clamps on ebay pricey thou, but I would trawl the local flea market thats where I get mine. Also Squires Catalogue 2008-2009 has them on Page 228. i find they tend to turn as you just do the last tighten up and the job goes with it. I still have a set or two of the G clamps but use the bar clamps or spring clips/ clamps now. I use to use Tufcote to as it went on easy over Humbrol paints on my I.C. cabin cruiser and gave a beautiful smooth fuelproof finish. Nice job there
Seaspray
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Hi all,
Things are steadily moving, and the transom is now finished and a start was made today on the cabin sides / cockpit coaming and the well deck sides. I’ve left these about 3mm above the deck level as a support and extra gluing surface for the coaming. Also fitted a couple of strips against the deck between the bulkheads for the same effect on the cabin area. (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SV-_D4MvIRI/AAAAAAAAA4I/DK_OI4OozAo/s576/DSCN1225.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SV-_C8aTmvI/AAAAAAAAA4A/EUED-_jtiBg/s576/DSCN1224.JPG)
I’ve had a good look at the cabin top PMD and think it very unlikely that it can be done with one piece of ply stressed to the curve involved, not that is without severely influencing the frame work it will be attached to and subsequently trying to flatten itself out . I think it will have to be done in two layers using ply planks to reduce the stresses then possibly moulding and laminating a piece of 1/32 or even 1/64 ply over it for uniformity. Glad to hear you’ve made some progress too, is that the deck or cabin roof planking ? How about some pics?
Regarding planking the decks I checked out the pics on the Fairey powerboat site of the original Ford sponsored Huntsman and it appears that the decks were painted white with anti skid strips on the fo’c’sle. (Am I allowed to copy a picture of that here Martin?)
Thanks for the info on the clamps, I think mine are from one of those ‘job lots’ that appear from time to time – when they’re gone they’re gone! Squires it is for now.
Back soon - Ramon
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Dont want to hijack your thread Ramon, it will spoil it, but I have copied the dark with white caulking interior, and the paler weathered exterior, it was a very difficult job getting the planks to follow the contour of the deck, particularly at the bow, it was my first planking project. If I did it all over again, I would probably not do it!! :}, didnt know the racing boats had a painted, with anti slip, decks, :((
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Righty then, lets talk radio boxes, as you're going to need one, unless your pockets are as shallow and you are as insane as Phil ;) ;D.
I and many others have found that the plastic ones you buy aren't that good and most end up letting water in.
The best we've come across is to get yourself an aluminium camping sandwich tin, Stick a layer of 5mm thick self adhesive neoprene tape right around the lip on the inside, then strips around the inside of the lid around the edge. When you squash the lid down and do the clips up, the two pieces of neoprene form a watertight seal. You can drill bolt holes etc through the box to mount it in the boat and to mount servos etc as long as you stick plenty of epoxy around the bolts when you do.
Andy :-))
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/AluBoxBlackBoxed.jpg)
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Hi PMD
All credit to you - getting flat planks to lay flat in the curve of this bow cannot be easy. What did you use for the white caulking?
Having taken a second look at '909' this may be a trick of the light - they certainly don't appear to be planked - any one know different? See what you think here
http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/default.asp?content=archive&photo=8&max=8&min=5
http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/content/windows/showimage.asp?id=1
There are some super pics of more up to date Fairey boats on this site that may prove interesting too.
Thanks for this really great tip Andy, this side of things are not so far off so will look into it. Do they come in different sizes as the amount of space under the well deck is a bit restricted. I could of course put it in the cabin area but this will make a long run to the tiller. This sort of thing is the technical side of matters that I need some up to date thinking on but more on this a bit later.
Do you have any particular line of camping shops in mind?
Thanks guys :-))
Regards - Ramon
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Great build Ramon,
My tuppences worth, as regards the double curvature on the cabin roof - I've heard /read somewhere in the past that if you were to paint one side of a piece of thinnish ply with cascamite and leave it to dry, it curls up in like an autumn leaf, you then glue it to your frame work to flatten it with the 'hint' of double curvature.
If the roof needs to be thicker then repeat with more laminations.
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Why not plank it e.g. with pre-bent hard balsa? It's not difficult to obtain a gentle compound curve like that one, and the job you've done so far shows it well within your capabilities. You might need to add a couple of frames between the two cabin sides across the top, to hold the curve, but again that's not beyond you.
Check out Bluebird's build of my little Swordsman to see how he does it.
FLJ
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Hi all,
Great build. Not sure if the time is availiable to me but.
Over xmas I watched a bit of sky (told misses been busy in garage as she was at work),
They were rebuilding a landrover/Range rover thing and he cleaned the engine parts by
washing them in a dishwasher (overnight so his misses didnt see)
The parts looked as new. I would think that it would also work for other part cleaning.
Has any tried this
ro88o0
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The best thing to use is the wifes ultrasonic jewelery cleaner, just make sure shes away somewhere.
You can put a biit of washing up fluid in there with it.
I think Bill got his radio box from countryside or millets, but they are available on fleabay and if you take that picture into a camping shop they should be able to get you one. Height is approx. 3 inches, legnth 7 inches and width is 5 inches. They are great for fitting in between rails in boats.
Best of luck with it
Andy :-))
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Thanks guys for your interest and input which as always is appreciated.
Despite seemingly unable to shed this cold (man flu according to SWMBO) I forced myself once more to the brink and ventured into the workshop to dry fit the cabin sides. These are cut from 2.5 mm ply which I got from SLEC. Unlike the 1.5 and 3mm from the same source this is of better quality being five ply and considerably stiffer. The ‘pull in’ force at the front of the cabin was significant though at this stage I had not removed the cutouts for the glazing (notice I didn’t call them windows!) – I didn’t want to risk the ply cracking. I then thought that if I could induce a curve in them this potential should disappear. I have often used a heated surface to induce a curve into stringers on model aircraft and wondered if this would work over an area on this ply. Surprisingly it does!
SWMBO kindly donated her redundant flour shaker (well it is now!) to the cause and with the help of a tea light a polished heated surface did the trick. I can now cut out the openings without fear of cracking the thin edges around the glazing.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWEiEXzNG0I/AAAAAAAAA5Y/blyCqnhfZps/s576/DSCN1229.JPG)(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWEiDMoAPGI/AAAAAAAAA5Q/zp5zJTAIzsQ/s576/DSCN1228.JPG)
With this stage now dry fitted it’s time for fitting the bottom skins . Here they are stitched and ready to apply.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SV04QdzIiHI/AAAAAAAAA2g/KspTlQDRFRo/s576/DSCN1221.JPG)(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SV04RpHHMOI/AAAAAAAAA2o/EtJL3KmWLL4/s576/DSCN1222.JPG)
I had to take them apart and bevel the edges as with square edges one side kept slipping under the other but once done and re- wired here's the result just hope it goes on the frame work ok.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWEiGAu3nrI/AAAAAAAAA5s/PeLCr6LejDg/s576/DSCN1231.JPG)
Despite this success with the heat this isn’t going to work on that cabin roof so thanks for your ideas. The Cascamite idea is novel but I can’t see that you would have any real control over it but thanks for your thoughts. I checked out the Bluebird build FLJ and though I may tackle it slightly differently this looks like the best possible way to resolve this without later distortion.
Thanks again chaps
Back later - Ramon
PS Thanks for the tips on cleaning but SWMBO's dishwasher wouldn't be suitable - it's me!
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Ramon the white caulking is done with white plastic strips, bought in packets from most model shops, just make sure you get them long enough so no joins ok2. I have searched for some old bags bearing the manufacturers name, but can't find any, its Green...something or other, anyway, loads of places have it. I used 1.5mm square
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Evergreen Scale Models make plastic similar to above reply.
They are from Woodinville, WA but their packs are in most good model shops in the U.K. In packs of about ten. 12 inches long and itemised.
Alternatively in most model shops there is alway a big rack that I make for as they come in metre lenghts and various shapes and are colour coded. Thou I think the Evergreen are a better quality.
pmdevlin the plastic really makes the planking stand out good idea.
Seaspray
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Good Morning all,
Just surfaced feeling a thousand percent better than the last couple of days so I'm hoping to get back on the boat later.
PMD this looks really good, a lovely piece of work. If 'copying is the best form' etc. I'm sure you won't mind if I do likewise and thanks Seaspray, I am familiar with Evergreen strip though have never used it in conjunction with wood. My local shop has a good selection so no problem there.
What glue did you use PMD?
I'm still not certain what to do with the main deck, bearing in mind that this will be a I/C powered 'get me back on the water gad about' I would still like it to look good (and right) but having said that don't want to go down the highly detailed route. Looking at pics of the more modern full size Swords' and Hunts' the decks are clearly planked with a teak like timber that has faded to it's usual pale grey colour which at low photgraphic angles can appear almost white. I'm not convinced the pics of the Ford boats give this illusion but niether am I convinced they would have just been painted as they appear. Whatever thats a way off at the moment so a bit more reasearch is needed.
If things go right today I may get the bottom skins in place - fingers crossed
Thanks as always - Ramon
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Thanks Seaspray, it is evergreen for the white strips. The sizes are perfect pack to pack, so well worth that little bit extra. I glued the planks, and plastic, with alphitic (correct spelling?) glue, then sanding sealed 3 times with 1000 grit between coats, then same process with Ronseal clear gloss varnish. Whilst this isnt the most accurate finish (very slippy if wet!) I wanted the contrast to the matt finish on the exterior planks, Luxurious "gym palace" in the boat!
Ramon, I did extensive research on the exterior finish, as seen on the earlier photo of the real thing, it (the planks) almost have an off white finish. I achieved the finish, and was delighted with it, but the grey caulking also turned off white, so the planking was lost, and after a long battle doing them I decided to strip it all off so the planks could be seen, and used sanding sealer to gently warm the original colour highlighting the grey caulking.
Started the screen last night, thats going to be a hard job :}
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Hi again,
With the able assistance of SWMBO (now that could cost somthing!) I managed to get the bottom skins on last night which though taking near a whole roll of masking tape turned out to be a relatively pain free operation.For some reason the pics would not load on Picasa but tonight seems okay.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWYvUr7t6QI/AAAAAAAAA7M/pxT-Xlz0yFI/s640/DSCN1234.JPG)
The pull in at the stem was much to tight for the tape to handle so the crude supports were made and I finally found a use for the piece of 2BA studding that has laid in a drawer for the best part of twenty years!
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWYvVcmFqRI/AAAAAAAAA7U/ng6IVZ5nCVY/s640/DSCN1235.JPG)
Clamped to a ply 'extension', itself clamped to the bench, they gave all the force neccessary to hold the parts in tight. I used standard Araldite to glue this area up on to where the keel staightens and at the aft end behind the prop shaft exit. I left the remainder of the keel dry and glued all around the chines and the bulkheads with Titebond pulling down with masking tape allowing the natural curve of the skins to find its own level on the bulkheads ie I didn't try to push these points deliberately into contact.
Today I turned it over to find that they are tighly glued to all except the front two bulkheads. These gaps will be carefully filled with epoxy to keep the natural 'flow' of the ply skin.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWZ8l1R6R9I/AAAAAAAAA9E/lVRQrCYNbkM/s640/DSCN1240.JPG)
The hull was laid on each side and Araldite laid in the join between keel and skin then gently heated with a hot air gun. Doing this serves two purposes firstly making it thin and fluid so it runs into all the crevices and wire holes and secondly to kick activation off much quicker. This dosn't show it too well but it needs doing a bay/bays at a time so that the glue stays level until activation.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWZ8izpCm4I/AAAAAAAAA8s/KwInCoHNpf4/s640/DSCN1237.JPG)
My friend Peter came round today and took the jig away to start his own build - it will be nice to see both on the water but that's a while off yet. Once this messy stage is done then the fitting out can begin.
Good luck with the windscreen PMD, How about sharing how you deal with it?
Regards - Ramon
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Hi chaps,
I finally have a hull and it's now begining to look like a boat. Nothing done today though - birthday and all that but have managed to fair the edges and give it a good sanding all over since Friday.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWpo0j-KI-I/AAAAAAAAA-M/sLSXCZjyoEo/s576/DSCN1243.JPG)
The next stage is to get the propshaft in then the more time consuming 'fitting out' can begin.
Unfortunately though something else that simply can't be put off any longer needs attention so it will be a week or so before work can resume but in the meantime heres how she looks now.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SWpoy6BGV1I/AAAAAAAAA98/Lb2pEsnaQTE/s576/DSCN1241.JPG)
Back soon then
Regards - Ramon
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Happy birthday to you...
Happy birthday to you...
Happy birthday yeah you get the idea...
Nice looking stand youve got yourself there, should be fine for starting on that so long as your back lets you, I know mine wouldn't...
Hows the cabin being held on?
Andy :-))
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It is a good looking stand, I'll adopt that style next time
Seaspray
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Hi Ramon, due to the curvature of the cabin roof that the screen will sit on, its quite a complicated shape, and also the sides have an unusual shape. Ages ago I bought from Anglia Models a template that was for the aft cabin version of a Huntsman. It was disappointing quality, just a piece of perspex with the shape rather crudely etched on, however I used it as the first version template, and have fashioned a shape out of paper. Thanks to another forum member, as he came up with the idea of using a template of the screen curvature, as from birds eye view, attach this to the roof with a couple of small nuts and bolts (2mm). THe perspex can now butt up to this, and if damaged, the bolts removed and all comes off in one piece :-))
(http://)
You can see the nasty fitting centre section (this must go!). I will use thicker card to get the final shape, then have a go in perspex, making a couple of spares. Not yet decided how to fabricate the frame,probably out of plasticard like I did the window frames.
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I'm throwing my Swordsman in the bin,after seeing your fine woodwork skills :}
Mark
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Hi all, thanks as always for your interest.
Firstly PMD what a lovely job you are making - I'm most envious of those decks. :-)) :-)) I was giving the cabin sides and coaming some thought for when I get back on it and have more or less decided that I shall plank the main deck whether the original 'Ford' boats were or not . This will help seal the cabin/deck join and give some support to the coaming sides which after all does not have a particularly strong joint against a side swipe!
I really like the idea of using plasticard for the glazing surround too. I was going to do what I did on the original Swordsman model that I made and that was to use model railway line, set on edge with the groove between base and rail running around the cutout, the base on the outside. It was effective, gave a very scale 'satin chrome' finish and the glazing could be snapped in place on the inner groove. However with the 'silver' paints now available a very realistic metallic finish can be put on Plasticard - have you heard of the 'Alclad 2' paints? - so this is something I will investigate further.
Regarding the windscreen it's going to be a big piece of 'Perspex' which is going to need heating to get round those bends on the outsides without cracking. I don't know if it's still available but at one time you could get 60 thou thick (acetate) sheet from the average model shop which may be a suitable alternative. Though a moderate amount of heat will assist matters greatly this will take a cold bending to a certain degree without shattering like acrylic but even better would be if you could get an off cut of 2mm 'Makrolon' This is very strong but will cold bend with a bit of effort and is virtually shatter proof. I think the big problem with this part is going to be in the fixing but I can see quite some virtue in the method you describe for the front of the screen but the sides?
Can't believe the stand made an impression??!!! Means to an end was the thinking behind it. I remembered the last one, just having foam strips on the 'vees' for proection gradually wore the finish off the hull. Hopefully this will prove a little better
The back should hold out Andy but the knees??? now they're something else!!!
Regards - Ramon
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Alclad 2 are good, but in my opinion Testor Metallisers are better, you have to get them from the states though as I've only ever seen them in the Aviation Hobby shop and thats a long drive. Not for you though I think, but you may want to call ahead to make sure. Very much worth a visit, it's absolute untidyness heaven in there and youre hard pressed to find a section of wall not covered it kits and even more difficult to find a place to stand. I could live in there ok2
I think it will be best to leave the windows out actually. The engine needs to breath, and you would not believe the amount of air it takes in, gallons a minuit. That entire hole in the crab of air is mixed with the tiniest squirt of fuel, hundreds of times a second.
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Ramon and andyn
I had trouble with my i.c. cabin cruiser regards the engine exhaust (hindsight) Two things were wrong. Firstly i had the O.S. silencer on and a marine silencer As well. which was causing too much backpresure in the system. Also no matter what I tried i could not get the O.S. silencer to seal gas tight. Tried everything, making gaskets,using instant gasket, gluing up pressure holes in the silencer. i was about nuts with it. It would start o.k. then run like as if it was on a very rich mixture. one day a was tuning the engine and set the boat off down the loch with the cabin roof of and it went like the clappers. Straight back in to shore ripped the clear plastic windows out, cabin on and had great success. in those days i used thin clear pastic from tie boxes that had windows made of the plastic. I think I tried to order Tester from America and they said the couldn't export it. I had no problem with the top cabin window on my Huntsman but it was the one with the rear cabin. I will be using clear plasticard for the windows on the model I am building. Weather is will be a success ,we'll see.
Seaspray
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'Morning Andy and Seaspray,
I should have said but at least one piece of glazing, probably the rear on both sides, will be left out for 'breathing' and cooling airflow. The rectangular hole in the central bulkhead was cut with this in mind. Previous experience with cowling model aircraft engines has also shown that the 'outlet' area is just a important as well and ideally needs to be as large if not slightly more than the inlet.
I would hazard a guess that if the exhaust was as leaky as you imply Seaspray, then your boat would have quickly filled with exhaust fumes which would very quickly have an effect on the oxygen content!
I intend to make a silencer/collector similar to an OS and then couple that to an inline muffler under the well deck. Hopefully that won't provide too much back pressure for the HP and even more hopefully won't be too noisy!
Testor's are indeed very difficult if not impossible to obtain though I heard recently that someone was going to start importing them.
There are a few myth's about using Alclad but I have used it a fair bit in other modelling projects with total success. I'm not sure what the durability of it would be on an 'outdoor' working model but with a good coating of sealer I'm sure it would be substantial enough for the glazing frames. BTW wheres the Aviation Hobby shop?
Well - duty calls - appears we have a blocked drain - just the thing for a cold wet day see you later - Ramon
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The Aviation Hobby Shop is just down the road from Heathrow airport. While you're at it you could also go have a look in West London Models. Some nice gear in there.
http://www.tahs.com/ (http://www.tahs.com/)
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Hi Andy, That is just a little bit far to go to get a bottle of paint especially when I'm about six miles from Hannants wharehouse - now theres tempation in a box if ever there was!
Nothing done but domestic duties - you could say I feel drained (ooooh) but the job is done thank goodness :-)
Should be back on the boat in a week or so until then keep having fun- Ramon
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The boat is looking great any updates ?
Proteus
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Now that is topical!
After more time than anticipated on the dreaded domestic duties and a much more pleasurable modelling distraction (perhaps more later on that!) I finally got back onto this yesterday.
The prop shaft is now in though a bit 'close angled' for my liking - I can just get an X50 prop to clear. Any one any ideas on what prop would suit this HP61 best? When I did his before I don't remember anything more exotic than the Graupner range of props. I can't be certain but memory recalls using nothing larger than an X45 on the Merco 61 and the OPS. Am I right or would this have been too small? I intend to kick off with an X50 and experiment from there
I started to glue on the spray rails today, a bit slow due to the awkwardness of holding them in contact with the hull but so far so good. Once these and the chine strakes are on then I can concentrate on the topsides.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SaMjFMOB8iI/AAAAAAAABho/1ty4w7Yqo4Q/s640/DSCN1323.JPG)
How is yours coming on PMD? Are you ready for the water yet?
Regards to all - Ramon
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I cant remember what my merco had on it, but the first one had lost so much compression it could only turn a brass 35 prop. The second one turned a X50, but very slowly with one hell of a lot of torque, and it never stopped...
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Ramon
The original plan specifies a Graupner X50, so I guess that's what we used on our HP 61. Then again, I don't remember trying anything else so maybe there's room for experiment!
FLJ
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Thanks Andy, FLJ and Norman for the PM. Looks like an X50 it is. Howeverrrr!
I can get an X50 in with about 3mm to spare. I know it's a bit late to do anything about it now but would you cast a wary eye over these couple of pics and tell me if this closeness to the hull is likely to have a detrimental effect.
X50 - appx 2mm clear
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SaR1hnovrAI/AAAAAAAABoc/kU5oN-AucuE/s640/DSCN1332.JPG)
X45 - appx 5mm clear
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SaR1ih9EzsI/AAAAAAAABoo/f7QhOyuGzyU/s640/DSCN1334.JPG)
I managed the rest of the spray rails and the chine strakes today. I used the Titebond 3 waterproof glue because of its amazingly quick grab time. They were not an easy thing to hold in position other than a couple of weights and loads of masking tape. I have bought some new P38, a product which I haven't used for years. Any one know how good this is bonding to wood - I intend to fill and smooth the edges of the spray rails with it.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SaR1g-K3wQI/AAAAAAAABoU/PAb5DGuigTQ/s640/DSCN1330.JPG)
Soon be working on the topsides now
Regards - Ramon
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Hi Ramon, well I am no nearer the water, been working (well watching!!) a good friend and skilled modeller sorting out another boat project for me! :embarrassed:
I have been working on the huntsman windscreen, its been very difficult, I didnt realize what a complex shape it is. The radius of the top of the screen, and bottom, are different, and the sides drop away, so lots of different angles going on >:-o
Started out with 2mm plastic sheet, tried heating it with a hairdryer, heater, gas ring and in the oven! all failed. Then tried Lexan. This bends far better, and treated myself to a heat gun yesterday. Pics attached are 2nd attempt. THe difference between soft, floppy, and too hot and bistered are very close. Its almost there, the dilemma now is what to do with the opening on the roof. I really dont want to lose such a big area by closing it off, but trying to come up with an idea to make it nice and tidy are elluding me. If I cant figure it out then its a new one piece roof and I lose the storage space, which would have been ideal for a sound unit
(http://)
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It's looking very good PMD - nice finish on the decks and the sides - what paint did you use?
The screen is looking good despite your missgivings, are those extension inside the welldeck temporary or is that your intended method of fixing.
This is quite a 'nightmare' part to fix as per the full size.
I have finished the bottom rails off today and given it (the bottom) a couple of very thin coats of sanding sealer. While the hull is still upside down I have decided to prime, fill, etc this area ready to paint before tackling the top which will make this task easier than when the coamings etc are on.
I tested the P38 on a scrap of wood. Sticks like sticky stuff to the proverbial. Hopefully it will stay that way under the paint once the vibrations begin!
See what you mean about the cabin top. I'm hoping to make the whole area removeable from just in front of the screen - don't have anything concrete in mind how to do it just an idea
Anyone out there have any opinions on the closeness of the prop? (last posting)
Bye for now - Ramon
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Hi all,
The bottom is now finished and the rails have come up well but 'oh deah' I'm afraid I have made a real boo boo on the positioning of them. With the plan at my friend Peter's I put these on from memory but, looking through an old model boats plans book yesterday, and after the last coat of primer went on, there is the pic of the full size bursting through the spray showing very clearly that they all run parallel to the keel and not pulled in as you see. :embarrassed: :embarrassed: The phrase 'Golly Gosh' sprang immediately to mind (or something very similar). I did consider removing them but have decided that they will have to remain as is - after all this is not meant to be anything but a scale like 'runabout'.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sam7K49VegI/AAAAAAAABqw/4fk1-3Yh_vI/s640/DSCN1350.JPG)
Before priming I spent some time getting the cabin sides fitted and the glazing holes cut out as well as mocking up the cabin top edging.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sam7FPdHhMI/AAAAAAAABqA/Rz1ShZX4mDA/s640/DSCN1342.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sam7HA-vjWI/AAAAAAAABqQ/URrbd16CIR0/s640/DSCN1344.JPG)
The insides have a had a couple of coats of thin epoxy which has gone on better than I'd thought so now it really is time to get the topsides built.
Back soon - Ramon
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I'm afaid it's never going to be scale anyway, I've never seen a huntsman before that went eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and left a nice pool of Nitromethane in it's wake...
And personally I prefer drawn in, like it was on the Spearfish. Just claim its a scale model of a Cut'n'Shut job ;)
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Hi all - I'd like a bit of advice please.
Having looked at working on the topsides I think it would be best to get the radio and fuel tank installed before installing the cabin sides and coaming. This will allow me a little bit easier access and will prevent me from probably ripping the coaming off accidently while working on it.
Looking at layout I think it would be best from a CG point of view to install the radio gear (batt, rx and throttle servo) in the forward cabin bay (the fuel tank is in the aft cabin bay just in front of the engine)
As this will create a long (mechanical) connection to the rudder I am looking at installing the rudder servo in a separate box closer to the rudder in the aft bay. This will mean a long servo connecting lead running past the engine.
Is this likely to create radio signal problems being so close to all that metal to metal whirring round?
What do you normally do with the aerial wire?
In the past I have installed a 'snake' outer running around the bows and 'push' threaded the aerial through this but that was on 27mhz and on a much smaller expanse of water. Would this be good enough for much further 'outings', say 500 - 1000 mtrs?
As always your advice would be appreciated
Regards - Ramon
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Best to put all the radio gear in one box, see about 2 pages back my posting with a metal tin in it. Get yourself one of those. The fuel tank should be on the centre of gravity, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, putting it off centre will change the CoG as it runs along, and will create some very strange handling...
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Hi Ramon, nice work, coming along :-))
Mine is electric, so c.o.g and weight are different, using a 700bb graupner motor. I intend to use 2 nimh packs, either side of the motor, and will be using a turborix (look on the electric section, recent posts) 2.4 set eliminating the aerial wire, however, I did run the model prior to refurb briefly on 40mhz., and ran the aerial wire from centre section to stern, then up the inside of a hollow flag mast.
I would suggest not too much weight in forward cabin, you will want it to "plane", its quite a heavy old girl when completed, so the bow needs to be light.
Now, I have taken a big step backwards, the cabin roof was really annoying me, so its been removed, to be replaced with a new one, and no "hole" in the centre. I intend to gain access by having a removeable panel on the inside bulkhead, which will pull out like a shelf, this will have access then to esc, etc. The paint is plasticote aerolsol. I painted it almost a year ago (its taken that long :(() but I have noticed that there is signs of minor cracking on cabin sides, so I have decided to rub it back to wood, and apply glass cloth and light resin, I would hate to finish the boat then the cracking reappears, so its a bit frustrating to say the least!.
As for the screen, I intend to use some of that extra inside the cabin sides to secure it, so if it gets damaged, or for any other maintenance, it can be removed easily, and not a permanent fixing. Have not yet worked out how to secure the front of the screen!
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Hi guys thanks for the response.
Andy, I had not forgotten your tip on these boxes but as I remarked at the time there is not really enough room in the aft area to fit one.
I have considered the CG question in my thinking. I'm not sure if it shows it on the plan (still with Peter) but I would hazard a good guess that it will be in the area of that main cabin bulkhead possibly just ahead of it. With the engine sitting just aft of this the fuel tank (600cc) will be on the forward side of it running lengthways between the two bulkheads. I can see that a diminishing tank will have some influence on trim but with it's closeness to the assumed CG I would think that the effect will not be too noticeable.
Like wise with the R/C gear. If I put it in the aft end bay not only will it be near the intended position of the silencer but all the weight of the 'hardware' other than the fuel tank will be on the aft side of the CG. This could then mean having to put ballast in to get the trim right. However if it does turnout a bit bow down with the gear in the front
then I'm certain a much smaller amount of ballast will be required.
I'm still concerned about signal noise being picked up by a long servo lead going past the engine so does anyone have any thoughts on this - FLJ? et al (I'm okay with sticking bits of wood together and getting the paint on but when it comes to radio ???????????{:-{ {:-{)
Your resilience in face of adversity never fails to impress PMD.
What a shame about the paint. As a matter of interest what did you use as a substrate. The reason I ask is that some time ago I had a similar disaster on three model aircraft all painted at the same time with the same brand of paint. I had used normal cellulose sanding sealer followed by a cellulose dope and talcum powder mixture - a long time tried and tested combination of filling the grain - with the substrate smooth the top coats (car 'cellulose' aerosol) went on without a hitch. I was really pleased with the smooth, glossy finish until about three weeks later when I noticed some crazing under the fuel proofer had taken place. Further investigation showed all three were identical -every surface covered with micro cracks, crazed just like a Chinese vase. It was some time later that I read in a model magazine of the incompatibility of acrylic based paints over a cellulose base. I checked the aerosols and they were indeed acrylic based. It appears that cellulose is flexible even after quite some time (weeks) but acrylic isn't - something has to give and it's the acrylic! I have never mixed the two since and never had the problem re-occur and I have had need to put some time in on finishing on some of those aircraft! Of course cellulose products are not so available now but I do have a good stock - certainly enough for a couple of boats. It'll be a whole new learning curve with the new stuff if I ever get round to needing to use it.
Nothing done today - have to get this gear in first - back some time later - Ramon
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Oh yes, so you did...
Would it not fit in widthways? And you dont have to have just one tank, via a plumbers van assortment of pipes, you can have 2 or 3 in there, probably best with a float chamber for 2.
Andy (the forgetful one...) :-))
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Hi Ramon, I think I used Halfords primer, and later found out that this product, and Plasticote, are not compatable. On another boat, the glass cloth and light resin seems to have eliminated any crazing and cracking problems, so hopefully this will cure it :-))
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Morning guys,
I'm afraid it wont Andy, not enough depth at the aft end and would sit far too high in the hull at the bow to get reasonable pushrod runs plus of course i would be back to that long run to the rudder arm. No, a purpose built ply box(es) has to be the way to go. I shall seal them with a perspex plate which should keep them dry but the question still remains :
Is the long servo lead running past the engine likely to pick up any signals from the movement - I really would like to be sure before I go down this route - failing that its going to have to be 'suck it and see'.
Compatibility is certainly the key word PMD, at one time I would go down the route of the least expensive ie use cheaper, non reccommended thinners for instance. After some pretty disappointing finishing disasters on finishes that were 'important' the thinking changed somewhat and now I'm a firm believer in keeping finishing materials uniform throughout. I have spent an awful lot of time on 'finishes' in the past and all that work can so easiliy be lost by one wrong coat. When that happens its a real pit of the stomach feeling!
With regard to glass cloth I have used very successfully on several models the very lightweight cloth (.6oz sq mtr) applied using Ripmax 'Tufcote' fuel proofer. This two pack resin is rather thick for the task intended but is perfect for this application. Once cured it lives up to it's name and is extremely durable. I have never experienced any cracking using it in this form. The real benefit of using this is that it cures to 'handlability' within twenty to thirty minutes but the unused resin in the jar, unlike epoxy or polyester will remain fluid and useable for 2-3 hours if not longer and even more if kept in the fridge!. I lay the cloth, which is very fine indeed, over the area and gently paint the Tufcote on spreading it outwards from a central point. A second coat can be applied within 45 mins and left overnight is easily cut back with wet and dry (wet). Left any longer you soon realise it lives up to its name as sanding is much harder. It takes cellulose well if left to cure a few days. I have never had and subsequent finishing problems over this substrate.
I believe this was originally a floor finishing product which probably explains its non cracking properties and its durability.
I don't want to commit heresy but I do have one or two pics of the finished items but an aircaft on MBM? HMMM! I'm not so sure!
All the best - Ramon
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I would think that running the lead should create some electronic interference, and would probably stuff the electronics in the servo up. Way around this is to put the servo in the radio box, and to use Sullivan Snakes to connect to the the throttle. These need to be connected to something (ie the bottom or sides) of the hull to sop them from bending around everywhere. I once had a plane that lasted 2 flights, because the metal pushrod going into the carb was vibrating in the silghtly larger hole in the throttle lever. It smashed in nose first at well over 100mph, and there wasn't an awful lot left...
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Though you might like to see the current state of play. It's been a bit slow of late - I can't say that fitting the radio gear was particularly absorbing - infact a bit of a mental conflict - but now it's done it's back on with the build.
I took the hull over to the guy's at the local water - unanimous opinion was that the CG would be around 30/33% from the transom. (Now that is a bit alien to an aeromodeller!! %%.) so as you see Andy, the gear is now in the aft bay with the throttle servo remote. No one thought the servo lead would pick up any interference so it's very much a case of suck it and see.
Because of the central engine the drive position will have to entail some artistic licence. I'm going to cut out the bulk of the main bulkhead and then cover it with 1/16th ply - this will provide a 'hold down' for the engine cover and get rid of some un-neccessary weight.
Hopefully the cabin sides will be on by the end of the week.
Regards - Ramon
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ScgIZ7GLl_I/AAAAAAAABwg/dZladQveg10/s640/DSCN1353.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ScgIb1782_I/AAAAAAAABww/1xUuAcPTa8E/s640/DSCN1359.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SclbBE-P2KI/AAAAAAAABy4/GE8wZDW0n2w/s640/DSCN1366.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/ScgIz3JMNhI/AAAAAAAABxU/HjQBi0Wf2f4/s640/DSCN1358.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Scla-mQhFbI/AAAAAAAAByg/m_ReVD6yT3g/s640/DSCN1362.JPG)
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Hi, I am David Alderton - congratulations on building a Fairey Huntsman. I also built a scale model 72" and put a 35cc petrol engine in it. I raced it at Torquay and won the Challenge Shield of Great Britain back in the 80s. This was a long time ago, I now build radio controlled sailing ships - Pilot cutters etc. If you have any questions re making, just get in touch. Regards David
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Hullo David, Thanks for your interest and kind offer. Can I assume that was a 72" Huntsman? If so that must have been quite a beast. Do you have any photo's of it you can post? as I'm sure there would be quite a few of us who would be interested.
Well finally the sides are on and it now looks like a boat :-)
I've had a good week on it and there is just that cabin top to do then the finishing / fitting out can begin.
PMD - How is yours coming along? Any joy with that cabin roof? I have decided to cut slots down into the top of the cabin middle former and then laminate the edges of the removable top frame against the inside of the existing edges. With formers at each end and mid way I intend to plank the top surface diagonally with two layers of 1/32 x 1/2in. ply strips. By doing it diagonally it should present an equally rigid edge all round. Hopefully if the masking is adequate it will not stick itself too firmly in situ and prove a total embarrasment!!!
Whatever, we shall see, in the meantime here's the latest progress
Laminating the outer edges of the cabin
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sc1SSGxuqUI/AAAAAAAAB0k/Lcu4UqSGX1M/s640/DSCN1368.JPG)
Finished result - very strong
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sc1SS_KAf6I/AAAAAAAAB0s/DR8IWUDwP5o/s640/DSCN1369.JPG)
At last the second side is on
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sc1SUvk4ypI/AAAAAAAAB08/8LBxlxKj0E8/s640/DSCN1374.JPG)
The fixed area for the windscreen to sit and the 'break' of the removable top
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sc1SVSRgl8I/AAAAAAAAB1E/dkOSWADOLrU/s640/DSCN1375.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sc1SW8lAz2I/AAAAAAAAB1U/bKhfZmg-Vsk/s640/DSCN1379.JPG)
Have to take a break from it for a week or so but back soon with the cabin top and planking the well deck.
Bye for now - Ramon
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Hello!
Just to say I really enjoyed reading this thread. Can I say that the standard of work that you are doing is just great and very pleasing to see. It's a lovely boat and brings back memories of 30 years ago when I was running a Sea Commander.
Keep up the great work & best of luck with it
Cheers
Mark
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Hello all,
Despite intending to take a break from this I couldn’t stop thinking about tackling that cabin top so everything else that ‘interferes’ has been given the back seat. It has gone much better than anticipated so I hope it will prove of interest
Firstly though, thank you for your kind words Mark, I’m glad you are enjoying the thread. They come as I was beginning to wonder if there was any interest. Lots of viewers I see so I guess if you are that ‘ten percent of ten percent’ there must be at least another hundred of you ;).
Perhaps I should reiterate what I said at the start - this is my first power boat for thirty odd years and this was to share the build with others. Hopefully to have any errant ways picked up by those far more experienced and also to give encouragement to those who may be considering tackling something similar.
Onto that cabin roof then. Some time back when wondering about how to mould a piece of ply over the compound curves involved FLJ remarked about planking. I felt this would be the best option but immediately thought ‘as an aeromodeller’ and visualized longitudinal planks most of which would have to be tapered.
I was still on this line of thought last week when I was laminating the cabin side rails when I laid a strip of wood over to check the ‘fairing’. Laying it diagonally, the penny dropped and as mentioned it was obious that unlike longitudinal planking it would give the edges equal strength all round.
Though aware of the technique I have never used this method before but any concerns were soon dismissed - I have to say how impressed I am with it and am really pleased with the result :-)).The adoption of the curves involved, the apparent immense strength and the lack of ‘spring’ as the clamps were removed. Little wonder it was (is?) used in full size construction.
I laminated the support rails inside the cabin top rails with 1/64 ply shims in between, fitted two central formers and two stringers. Once this was set it was faired to the cabin sides then removed. The cabin sides, front and rear edges were then masked using selotape and the frame then replaced using the shims again to keep it in the correct position. Clamped at the rear and forward bulkheads the top was planked with two laminations of 1/2" wide 1/32 ply. It was time consuming but by the same token relatively quick. I used the Titebond 3 glue which gives an incredibly quick grab time for a PVA glue but the limitation was the available clamps!!
Here are a few pics which should explain all.
Laminating the support rails. The ply shim was pushed down before planing fair
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SdU7UekSzsI/AAAAAAAAB5s/7zNGCejN9eo/s640/DSCN1380.JPG)
Setting the rear frame former
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SdU7VTLypJI/AAAAAAAAB54/n0CGGoghFHc/s640/DSCN1381.JPG)
Frame faired and stringers fitted
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SdU7W5j9SyI/AAAAAAAAB6I/f9D7XEdOprU/s640/DSCN1388.JPG)
First layer of planking. Incidentally that coloured clamp - 'Soft' pegs - 2 quid for ten - Tesco's - brilliant!
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SdU7Xu460uI/AAAAAAAAB6Q/kIxFik1oKtE/s640/DSCN1391.JPG)
Faired off all round.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SdU7ZJ4_YWI/AAAAAAAAB6g/r7F0jxFg4O8/s640/DSCN1397.JPG)
A start has been made on finish planking the well deck - more on that later so back soon when thats finished
Regards - Ramon
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Dont worry Ramon.
I am still watching this thread with interest,and admiring your woodworking skills
Mark
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Hi All,
I'm pleased to say that apart from gluing on the fixed part of the cabin roof (I need to sort out the roof catches before I can do that) the major construction is complete :-).
The next stage is the 'fiddly bits' and some basic 'tarting it up' to make it look a bit scale like - handrails, edging strips, cabin door etc then its on to the finishing. I'm hoping to have it in the water by the end of May at the latest but you know the score -- best laid plans and all that.
The well deck planking went very well - I used 9mm wide .8 thick mahogany interspersed with 1mm thick lime strips (these were cut from 5mm wide stock to apx 2.5 wide with a scalpel). Using Zap very thin cyano I glued the centre plank down first then, holding the 1mm strip tight against it with the next plank along, cyano was run down the outer edge allowing capilliary action to take it under the plank to 'grab' the lime strip. No 'pullouts' occurred when planing or sanding the strips down which must mean this worked! I did have an awfully cyanoed thumb and forefinger by the time it was done though :D
As can be seen the aft deck slips under the inner transom plate.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sdu8fjOaOSI/AAAAAAAAB8w/ssN1SlFEh_E/s640/DSCN1414.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sdu8gQ0wiqI/AAAAAAAAB84/6nJww-hihDY/s640/DSCN1415.JPG)
The forward half of the well deck is another hatch which covers the engine bay. Again the forward edge of this slips under the 1/16 overlay glued to the main bulkhead, the rear edge laying just over the forward edge of the aft deck
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sdu8dOLGjfI/AAAAAAAAB8Y/jpevYf9m6kc/s640/DSCN1410.JPG)
The central cover immediately over the engine is also removable but because this pushes tight against the main bulkhead the hatch cannot lift and is firmly held down. How this will work with the ever present vibration remains to be seen!
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sdu8d1W0e_I/AAAAAAAAB8g/-lsgBIKhnKg/s640/DSCN1411.JPG)
The whole hatch is removable to allow access for starting.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sdu8e_alaSI/AAAAAAAAB8o/l10JNO_tPX0/s640/DSCN1412.JPG)
I have to say that none of this was carefully planned, it just evolved as it went along but it did involve a fair degree of cut and try. I hope it will stand up to the rigours of I/C power.
That's it for a while as a holiday is looming so I think a break is called for before the final fitting out and painting
Back soon - Ramon
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Hi all, holiday soon over, SWIMBO's 'canya' list caught up with, a bit (too much) of gardening catch up and I finally managed to get back onto the boat ;).
I felt that before I could move on the problem of the windscreen attachment needed resolving. First thought was to do this in one piece but having obtained a piece of 2mm acrylic sheet large enough it was obvious that this would be much too thick and difficult to work. Taking a good look at some pics of the full size it appears that the screen was possibly made from four parts - left and right front screen and two side screens. I decided to go for a two piece combining the side screens with each front half joining them behind the short mast. This would mean that readilly available, albeit in A4 size, clear plastic sheet could be used. Searching though the 'Squires' catalogue revealed they do a crystal clear PETG sheet in four thicknesses. I choose 1mm which should be flexible enough for the bending involved but rigid enough for the job in hand. I haven't cut it yet so can't at this stage confirm its suitability but it is cyrstal clear and quite flexible.
To get the shape a cardboard approximation was cut out and trimmed until satisified. This was then transferred to .8mm (1/32) ply with the grain vertical which was then fine trimmed to fit. The central housing was made from ally (though this could easilly be made from three layers of ply) and fitted to the mast previously glued in postion. (This was also bolted from underneath with a 4BA bolt running up into the mast).
As the pics show, using the flexible plywood was a good way of getting the correct shape without having to use the windsreen sheeting. It also allowed the fitting of a beading which the screen pushes against - maybe not quite 'scale' but reasonably asthetic.
Fitting of the initial ply templates
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SgfnoN97ygI/AAAAAAAAB-Q/Ww5bf0OEG8I/s640/DSCN1465.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SgfnpWjhj4I/AAAAAAAAB-Y/Ne0eVeQLYts/s640/DSCN1467.JPG)
The final templates and the screen material
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SgfnuBmyiAI/AAAAAAAAB-0/Y3-8Ml6j0Xo/s640/DSCN1477.JPG)
Finished and ready to fit the screen proper
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sgfnqhyrd7I/AAAAAAAAB-g/sj_zaP0mass/s640/DSCN1470.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SgfnreoRq7I/AAAAAAAAB-k/t9SCSVJMJHc/s640/DSCN1471.JPG)
Beading and fitting on Stbd side
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SgfnsoCrNMI/AAAAAAAAB-s/qIdcfErFxso/s640/DSCN1474.JPG)
I feel the two worst 'worrying' parts are now over (cabin roof and screen) so the remaining 'fiddly' bits should progress fairly quickly.
Incidentally, I ordered the PETG sheet from Squires around 10-ish one day and it arrived by first post the following day. If the order is over a tenner then it's post free - now that's what I call a good service - no connection, just very satisfied :-)
Bye for now - Ramon
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I was wondering where you had got to, nice to have you back :-))
I was rather shocked the other week to find that HP are still trading, under the barnd name of Mecoa, and from what I can see are still producing the old engines.
http://www.mecoa.com/hp/index.htm (http://www.mecoa.com/hp/index.htm)
Can't wait to see it on our lake ;)
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Hi Andy, Yep still about just been a bit distracted from the task in hand.
Checked the site out but can't seem to open the 'detail' pages. When I click on any thing specific just takes me back to the top of the page.
Just as well I suppose probaly cost an arm as the pound now is.
Thanks for the subtle reminder of that invitation - haven't forgot, it's a fair trek though so may have to fit in with something else.
Regards - Ramon
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Hmm it does that to me too. Mind you if you look at the top of the page it says under construction, they probably just havent finished it yet.
If found Mecoa to be reasonably cheap actually, they're far cheaper than CMB for a start.
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***Topic split****
Mr Fid's fast boat now has its own thread
In the Race Leisure and Sports Boats section
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Hello Ramon
I tried my best to wind you up by posting pictures of my very nearly finshed Miss CC but it has failed as it has been moved to it's own post!
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17305.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17305.0)
Hopefully it should all be ready for the top secret test run next Wed night!
Regards Martin
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Ha ha don't look now but you are being watched Mr Fid.
Nice try Martin however I'm now back on the Huntsman this time hopefully without further distraction so it won't be long now.
Currently work is on the incidentals so I'm just waiting until all these 'tarting up' bits are done then I'll post a couple of pics before the painting starts.
Regards - Ramon
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Hi everyone
Well at last I can say it's finished :-) well apart from the paint that is.
I have finished off the exhaust system and used an aerosol canister for the expansion chamber - should keep everything smelling nice if nothing else. I shall cable tie the silicone on final fitting out
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv34qSrY3I/AAAAAAAACHY/1TTyOxJ767k/s512/DSCN1521.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv34LKtHCI/AAAAAAAACHU/18s9HRbhCCI/s512/DSCN1520.JPG)
I finished the screen today. Despite the ply templates I still needed another card one from it and still had to fine trim the final plastic ones. It's epoxied on but held in position by the beading at the front and those four 8ba screws down the sides. They screw into tight holes in the sides and were cut off flush after.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv3xW_7-vI/AAAAAAAACGo/7KsrXrCFscQ/s512/DSCN1507.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv3yISnPlI/AAAAAAAACGs/8L8JzNQ12GI/s512/DSCN1509.JPG)
The screen material as mentioned was PETG which, I believe, is the same material they make the large pop bottles with. This was 1mm thick and was just a tad to rigid - I felt I had to use a bit of heat on the portside after it was fixed and just overdid it despite being really careful. Today the stbd side went on with no problems but just after the glue set and I removed the masking there appeared some very fine stress marks running vertically on the bend.
You can just see them here
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv32PmfDLI/AAAAAAAACHE/9ffi8gPeQ_I/s512/DSCN1516.JPG)
Not particularly noticeable at the moment but once the vibration starts it may be a different matter. Just can't face taking it all off again at this point in time just so much else I want to get on with. If I was to do it again I would definitely use bolts around the front beading and make the whole thing removeable.
Its going to be finished as one of the FORD sponsored boats - '707' - in the 1969 Round Gt Britain power boat race. White overall except the cabin sides, lower hull and transom which is dark blue. I'm busy this weekend but painting starts with a coat or three of sealer first thing Monday, in the meantime here's how she looks now
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv3yy4t17I/AAAAAAAACGw/5ChMuuSVKHs/s512/DSCN1510.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv30MsxQ0I/AAAAAAAACG4/KEKV1jhUtps/s512/DSCN1512.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv31fpgGZI/AAAAAAAACHA/TUhhR3loWg0/s512/DSCN1515.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv3069RP7I/AAAAAAAACG8/d22f0vGrrKw/s512/DSCN1514.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sjv34LKtHCI/AAAAAAAACHU/18s9HRbhCCI/s512/DSCN1520.JPG)
Hope you like it. I'm very pleased despite the slight problems with the screen. I confess I got a bit carried away with the fiddly bits especially as it's supposed to be a gad about but you know how it is I'm sure. Can't wait to get it on the water - if nothing else but to stop the ribbing I'm getting. "Where is it then!" a constantly heard phrase 'down the water'.
Regards for now - Ramon
BTW I haven't cheated on the pulpit the handrail is as per the original 707
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Now how did that get in there!!!!!!!!!!
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I cant say an aerosol is going to do much in the great scheme of things, probably just create more noise.
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I have to say that is the best looking Huntsman I have seen, a great piece of woodwork, congratulations.
I'm with Andy regarding the exhust, I would stuff a load of wire wool in there, that would help a lot :-))
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Only problem is that wire wool will create one hell of a lot of backpressure and would blow that silicon straight off.
I *think* there's a suitable silencer can in our boat shed, I'll get back to you tomorow.
I agree with Phil, I don't think I've seen a cleaner made Huntsman so far :-))
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I cant say an aerosol is going to do much in the great scheme of things, probably just create more noise.
I think all the old ripmax units where made the same and they worked .
and the wall thickness is about the same as some of the tuned pipes and the volume is prob greater
Proteus
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Hi All, Just took time out from domestic duties - visitors tonight and Swmbo's 'jus do' list is only halfway done!!! You know how it is {:-{ Still I am getting a day out at Duxford tomorrow. :-)
Thank you all for your very kind comments about the boat they are appreciated.
As regards the silencer this is a leap of faith really. What it consists of is a central 1/2" OD thinwall tube right through. There is a plug about 2/3rds toward the back end and each side of this are a number of holes. My thought was that this would act as an expansion chamber - gas in through the front end holes - expand and and then out the rear ones. I used an aerosol as this is a good source of very thin walled 'tubing' the end cap being sealed on, as is the tube, with JB weld something that has shown to handle the heat very well indeed.
'Breathing' through it shows very little restriction, something I have used as an indicator on aircraft silencers I have made. Those were bolted straight onto the exhaust and would get inside the 82dB requirement but of course at a much lower rev band. I'm fairly confident it won't restrict the engine but what the noise levels will be remains to be seen. If it's too much then a re-think is obviously in order. I can only 'suck it and see'
Thanks again, back soon - Ramon
Hmmm, Now where did I put that duster
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Hi Ramon,
Now that is nice...
The Huntsman kit in my old 1979 (ish) Ripmax catalogue was definitely a well thumbed page.
I got as far as buying the plans about 5 years ago. I think they're in my garage somewhere. Still waiting for that "round tuit".
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Hi Guys, thought you all might like to see my 1/8 scale Huntsman 31. Running 2x Irvine 61's Rear Exhausts with a sync system to lock both engines together from tick over. She looks just like the real thing when under way but you do need a large stretch of water for max speed and you have to throttle back from high speed to make the turns. Boat is not a kit but is scratch built off the oringinal Modav plans using marine ply and skinned in aircraft ply at 1.2mm.
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7480/41439771.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6374/17903889.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2281/78663810.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3756/77185910.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1CEh90)
(http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8118/90905610.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6551/96724151.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4232/62725113.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
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Veerrry Nice CHW, :-)) I bet it does eat up the water. They look like ordinary huco couplings you have there. How do you find they stand up to I/C power?
I'm struggling with the painting at the moment. It's been so humid the masking tape wouldn't stick - yes really! and to cap that off went down to get some aerosols yesterday only to find the local car shop closed - as in finished - stripped bare and looking very sorry. Sign of the times I suppose but another local supplier of handy bits and pieces gone to the wall.
On that note been looking around for pool noodles. Tried the local sports shop - six quid a piece! needless to say he's got quite a few on the shelf along with one he 'nearly' sold!!. Local toy shop was next, £2.99 - half the price for a twenty yard walk!
Regarding paint, anyone have any reccomendations particularly on the 'fuelproof' side.
I still have plenty of cellulose left from the aircraft days but wonder if there is anything that is quick and easy to get a result with - brush or spray
Regards for now - Ramon
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Hi Ramon,
Yes you are right they are Huco couplings, doubles as engines are rubber mounted. Boat was built in Australia when I lived there and the couplings were all I could get at the time, have to say through yet to break one!! Boat has been repainted three times over the years and the last time I used Plastic Kote won't be doing so again much prefer cellulose.
Must admit "pool noodles" hadn't a clue what that was, had to look it up!
Ramon I have under constrution 54inch 28, hull is together with some cabin structure, will post a pic if you like.
Best Regards - Chris
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Well it's been quite a while since I could get any progress but at last today I have managed to get the topcoats on. :} Trying to spray dependent on weather conditions can be frustrating to say the least.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SoCLwjHYTQI/AAAAAAAACXQ/3--xLg0-sEM/s640/DSCN1598.JPG)
I decided to go with using 'Brodak' fuelproof butyrate dope left over from 'aircraft days'. This is very good paint but really needs a butyrate 'substrate' to be at it's best. It will go over ordinary nitrate dopes providing they are left for some time to 'gas off' otherwise the butyrate reacts. (hence some of the time delay) I went for three thin coats of cellulose sanding sealer followed by an aerosol grey primer under the blue and white primer elsewhere. The white primer has much more 'body' than the grey and were I to do it again then I would use white all over followed by a thin coat of grey where the blue would go. However in hindsight I wished I had used thin epoxy straight on the wood - something I intend to do on the Hydro - but we all know how good hindsight is!
I will leave it a day or so to really harden then get the masking off. I feel it's on the home run now, just the 'logos', union flag and numbers to do then the clear coats.
Chris - sorry for not responding - just got carried away with the other project. Yes, please do - I'm assuming that's a 54" 28ft Huntsman.
Regards for now Ramon
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Hi again,
Well, got all that masking tape off without the dreaded 'pull up' so am well pleased. It's beginning to look like a Huntsman at last.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SoMIoMXFcrI/AAAAAAAACXw/bNjpNkEGQZA/s640/DSCN1607.JPG)
Rubbed it all down with 1200 grit wet and dry ready for the 'markings'. I will leave it a few days to really harden before the clear goes on but at this rate it could be finished by the end of the month......???? Hmmm! I won't tempt fate by saying 'Test run on Bank Holiday Sunday' but the thought is there!
Regards for now - Ramon
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Well you could say today has been a bit of a roller coaster O0
Perfect conditions for getting that clear coat on so set to and masked off the top surfaces so that the bottom and sides could be done first.
The product used was 'Woodminder' floor finish, no longer available regretably as it is such a good product though there is at least one other alternative just as good.
Totally fuel proof to 10% if not more, it thins with cellulose thinners and sprays superbly. Touch dry and handleable in 20 mins or so which today proved a real bonus ......
Mixed up 150cc thinned with 50cc and sprayed about 120cc on the boat - looking good so far. Stopped for a coffee then turned the boat up and remasked to do the topsides. Again it went on well but the remaider wasn't quite enough so quickly mixed up some more and carried on .
Everything was still going well when, feeling that I had now put enough on the top I decided to quickly remove the masking and use the remainder in the gun along the sides. Two good passes on each side and there it was - the biggest bl--dy run ever produced by a spray gun. Near the full length of the side and heavy - really heavy - like grapes infact %% Oh dear oh bl---y dear. Golly gosh I said or something very similar. PANIC No don't - YES - DO Against all the advice on runs offered to others in do not touch it it was just so bad I had to try and wipe it. Result - total bl--dy mess - well at least I thought so - but the 'grapes' were gone.
After 'regaining ones composure' (SWMBO, enjoying the sun in the garden - "Is something the matter dear?" <*< ) I set it in the sun to warm and cure. This was about 10.30. By 1.30 I thought it was hard enough to try to sand out so stuck some 400 grit wet and dry to a small flat piece of wood about 1-1/2 long and gently scrubbed at it. I was somewhat amazed to find that it was indeed hard enough to sand and by 2.00 all trace of this near disaster was gone - PPHHEWWWWWWWW. :D ;D %%
Unfortunately there are no pics to show of this epic but believe me I really did think this was going to be a strip back and start again situation.
Looking back I think I may have overdone the thinner on the second mix - that, and being over confident by how well the preceding coats had gone, I certainly wasn't paying attention to the build up while actually laying it on the sides.
Spent the rest of the day cutting back all the other surfaces - I think I need to give the bottom another layer as I have gone through in a couple of places but it's looking good for a test run in the very near future ;)
I shall sleep well tonight!
Regards - Ramon
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tough luck Ramon, I feel your pain! :((
I am at testing point with mine now, after a couple of reasonable tests with Brushed motors, it was good, but not quite the grin factor, so whilst trawling fleabay recently I stumbled upon a real gem of a brushless motor. Ran it this week, and its very good, with lots of potential, as I can change the gear ratio (2:1) now, and can go for a bigger prop, as the motor was stone cold, and can also up the volts, so a bit to do yet, but its going the right way, justy want a wee bit more speed!
I dont have your problems with fuel resistant paint, but......your run time will be all day, mine will be 15mins then a "charging" break :D
I did have a big set back, after the paint had been on a while, its started to get very fine cracks, so I had to strip all the paint back off, then using very light glass cloth, and resin, coated all the boat, and started again, hopefully that will cure the problem, seems fine up to now.
Just got to fit the seats, and a bit more small detail, wire up the lights, and spend a load of money on batteries at the upcomong Warrington shows!
As it is almost finished, I was thinking of posting my refurb build, but here is what I am up to, a short video of the brushless test, keep us posted with yours :-))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD9dnbj8bJA&feature=channel_page
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Hi PMD, nice to hear from you.
I had a good look first thing this morning and yes it really did come out - it's hard to believe it happened. For a couple of hours there though I had that real gut wrenching 'why the hell did I do that' feeling. All smiles today though however I notice that there are some tiny areas elsewhere where the water from the rubbing down has crept through and caused the wood to swell. I really do wish I had done as you and glassed and epoxied it first. Bit late now - just have to see how it goes.
Good to hear yours is well in to the testing stage, I hope it proves well with the new motor. I hope to get mine wet next weekend though whether it will be ready to actually run remains to be seen - certainly going to try. I was asked if will it need ballast - haven't a clue really - I don't remember the Swordsman having any. Don't have a bath anymore and dug the pond out this year so can't try it at home first. I thought I'd leave any further pics until it's completely finished and on the water.
You should put your refurb up - I think I said before bringing something back to life again can be more satisfying than building something new.
Thanks for the link - unfortunately for some reason my computer doesn't seem able to open Youtube but I intend putting in to the 'sick bay' when I'm on holiday in a few weeks time.
Best regards - Ramon
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Hi Guys,
CHWk7 and PMD can I echo Ramons sentiments - please put up your Huntsman build/refurb pics and details etc, the more Fairey the better !
Paul what motor did you eventually use? can we have details and who's gearing, prop etc you are using, the more info about what is a relatively new
subject in the fast scale model boat world (brushless tech) the better !
Your boat is looking very pretty, certainly no slouch and you still have the extra cells etc to play with ! Here in downtown Leicester we are slowly moving
over to lipo cells with great success, extended run times and around half the weight of Nimhs, well worth the pain of investigating, seem to be the norm
with the flyboys, early teething (explosive) problems appear to be ironed out, and prices are really coming down.
Ramon you have my sympathies, I know how gutting finishing problems can be, my Swordsmans painstaking planked deck expoxy finish went cloudy and
ruined after wrongly applying the second coat of SP resin (another story), had to be sanded back to bare wood and started again from scratch.
All readers please note: I write this from costly painful experience, watch out for signs of elbow pain or swelling when doing lots of flatting down or polishing etc,
my Tennis Elbow costs amounted to over £1000 in physio bills and long term enforced layoff/rest periods unable to do anything, especially modelling !
After the above talk of high tech electrics, this week in a moment of weakness, Ive plundered the dreaded Fleabay for a couple of classic marine IC engines,
now whats the best way to smuggle them past SWMBO.
Regards Paul
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Hi Guys, - Yes , quite agree "Let's be havin' you" this is one helluva way to share and learn and I'm very near to the finish so we definitely need some new input :-)) :-))
Which brings me to a last(?) question.
I have a steel standard 3/16 shaft running in sintered 'oilite' bearings top and bottom. What do I use to lubricate it?
Memory {-) seems to tell me I filled the tube with grease but as the cells are diminishing I really cant be sure.
Just to remind you the power is an HP61 running on 5% max and a standard exhaust.
Answers before Sunday please as that should be it's 'big day' ;)
Regards - Ramon
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Thin viscosity oil :-)) After run oil probably works, but it's a bit expensive for the application...
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Thanks Andy, I have some thin hydraulic oil which I will try.
Does this mean that a hole will need to be drilled through the tube wall at the top end to get the oil in and how often do you need to oil eg - every run - every outing or what? Are there any environmental issues with a total loss thin oil lubrication system to be aware of?
It should be fine for the bearings but what stops the water coming up the prop tube into the hull? Is this not a problem?
Thanks again - Ramon
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Shouldn't take in water with oil in.
What most people do is drill a hole (at a forward angle) in the tube, only on one side, and solder a short legnth of tube to it, with a silicon tube to fill it with. Block off the tube while in use.
You can see one in the bottom of this pic.
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3765.jpg)
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Thanks Andy - I will sort that out today.
Just to be certain what you are saying though, the prop shaft/tube I've fitted is quite basic and has no seals. Are you suggesting that the whole tube is filled with oil? I can't see this one holding any in as the shaft is not exactly a precision fit in the lower bearing. I'm just a bit concerned that I will have oil leaking out everywhere.
Ramon
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Should be ok, most people use an oil resevoir, the best I've come across is two humbrol tins soldered together, top lid still comes off and the bottom one has a pipe soldered to the bottom. This will keep it oiled as you go along. Needs a pin sized hole in the top to stop vacuums etc.
Don't worry about the environmental impact of it, it'll be about 1 part oil in 1 quadzillon parts water %)
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Grease the shaft regular. this will keep it in good order.
How it is done: Remove the drive shaft, push the grease in at the prop end. Some use a small sringe which also dose the job. I just work it in the end useing my fingers . It takes a little time but it saves the shaft.
If you oil the shaft as per what Andy has said your right the oil dose indeed end up in the lake, and all over the place where the boat stands. I have tryed this way some years ago useing gearbox oil NOT thin oil. However I still go back to the grease up the end of the shaft way.
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Just for a change - both Andy and Bill are right!!
If you just use grease, it will stop water coming up the tube initially, but the rotation of the shaft will eventually form a "tube" in the grease losing both lubrication and sealing.
Oil will lubricate, but you will have to have an almost constant feed (hence the Humbrol cans) to keep the shaft lubed as it does drain out of the end.
The solution is a combination of both - ie a thinned down grease. The MPBA world champs use a combination of waterproof grease "thinned down" with oil.
You should be looking for a similar consistency to custard (not the lumpy 'school' variety :} ). Inject this into the shaft, preferrably using a tube as described by Andy. This should last an outing, after which you would, of course, be stripping the shaft down to clean and check ... %)
Others have also sworn by
50% hydraulic oil + 50% thin lithium grease
SAE 30 motor oil
50% 3-in-1 + 50% steering box oil
The main thing is that the shaft is regularly checked to make sure that it is not corroding and that there are no untoward signs of 'polishing' in the bearing area.
Cheers
Danny
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Hi guys, once again my thanks for your interest and response.
I did what you suggested Andy and epoxied a small tube in a hole drilled through the keel and into the shaft just behind the top oilite bearing. I checked my small store of oils and used some Tellus 38 - nice and thin (Ex-works ok2, lathe gearbox I think) and injected some with a small syringe.......... and guess what Bill - a nice oil puddle on the bench within ten minutes :}
So based on the law of averages I think that Danny has the right idea - a good compromise - I will have to get some grease tomorrow.
I will certainly strip the shaft out regularly so I don't think corrosion should raise a problem. I was a bit concerned over the 'oil on water' bit as we share the water with anglers and do not want to cause an 'issue' but certainly now have a better idea about the likely potential of that and agree it is likely to be on the minor side of things.
The boat? well it really is nearly done - paintwork all cut back, engine and tank in and plumbed, radio fitted, and just finishing off the 'twiddly' bits. I do still have the 'window'(?) frames to fit and these may have to be done after Sunday. I had hoped to spend tomorrow on them but a couple of mates have offered to come over and help me move a shed - an offer not to be refused.
But it's definitely, most definitely going to get wet on Sunday :-))
Thanks again guys - Ramon
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Must be quite a loose shaft then...
Remember, we need pics O0
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Shaft is fine, its the bearings that are the problem {-)
Pics are coming - well maybe - SWMBO's just commented "that it could be quite a public humiliation if it don't work then" She may have a point!
We will see - roll on Sunday............
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Hi Zippy, next week I hope to have final testing, although probably wont have any new packs, so it will be with a number of props, that I will be picking up from the warrington shows tomorrow, and courtesy of HS93's advice we are changing the prop from 4mm to 5mm, utilising the original 8mm tube, so its not a big job, but having to wait for the bearings, Ramon, after your initial test you might want to consider changing the 2 bearings, only cost pennies, I use ones that are lubricated by water (bottom bearing), and oil top bearing, getting them from SHG.
I originally had grease in the shaft, but it caused drag, annd after a number of runs started to bake, and as mentioned earlier, just formed a horrible gungy funnel around the shaft. I then went to Andys idea of the oiler tube, and just use a cheap 3:1 type oil applied with a syringe, dont need to fill the tube, if the bearings are good you will lose only a very negigible amount into the lake.
I will wait to post the full refurb and test results till next week, as I want to have a final play with gear ratios, THe video is 2:1, going to try 1.5:1, and smaller prop might just let the motor rev a bit more. Mr Zippy, I too tried a steamer 3 blade prop, ( thanks HS93!)it was really good, but a larger plastic 2 blade "x" was almost the same, I was happier with, incase it fell off! :embarrassed: not such a loss!
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Hi All,
Well I'm pleased to say it didn't sink. :-)) Not quite :o
Couldn't get on it at all on Saturday so the frames got fitted on Sunday morning the last one about an hour before it got wet! And if it was going to get wet then the glazing and the front frame would have to wait. As it turned out that impatience was not a good idea and really could have proved disasterous ... but glad to say it didn't :D
Anyway heres how she looks - had to take some of these tonight as those done last night were a bit blurred.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2H1p9pyI/AAAAAAAACeI/Q3G-16NXBjM/s640/DSCN1631.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2KPtmhGI/AAAAAAAACeY/ryQeA69a3Mk/s640/DSCN1653.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2Mht3pjI/AAAAAAAACes/Hkx33tWSErc/s640/DSCN1657.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2N74qOZI/AAAAAAAACe0/79BzWc7Hr1E/s640/DSCN1659.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2OWZ9ilI/AAAAAAAACe4/IARroacHAFU/s640/DSCN1660.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2PDKmqvI/AAAAAAAACe8/5zSepRvNnyQ/s640/DSCN1662.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2W24rsUI/AAAAAAAACfM/Q5__HMtwYRM/s640/DSCN1666.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2ZsqKe3I/AAAAAAAACfc/vygsDYj0_Bc/s640/DSCN1672.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2aA8bz-I/AAAAAAAACfg/_pnGogmR9Ds/s640/DSCN1673.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2a30RMtI/AAAAAAAACfk/dvG6KehmFLw/s640/DSCN1675.JPG)
At the club the obligatory picture 'on the water' - it's looking a bit light but rocking it from side to side it seemed (operative word here, seemed!) to be stable enough %)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Spw2Goa-imI/AAAAAAAACeA/ZF4ujJeJG04/s640/DSCN1628.JPG)
After a tentative attempt to start the engine with a cord that was too thin I had to fit a belt and one whizz with a starter and the engine burst into life. It idles superbly and picks up very quickly and ... pleased to tell that silencer worked well :-)) (but it is early days yet so no 'crowing' from this direction)
Into the water and away - Oh DEAR - not enough rudder but what there was was sufficient to put the boat virtually on it's side with water scooping up and aiming straight for the open glazing.
I did manage a couple of straight runs, the pick up of the engine obvious, but on the second run the torque of the prop suddenly rolled her over on her side . Rapidly closing the throttle she now had little steerage and ended up ignominiously but unscathed in the branches of a waterside tree.
The top hamper with the engine running is alarming - ballast is definitely needed as well as a smaller prop - Graupner X50 used so X45 possibly X40 next.
So there we are - she's been wet at last, scared me to say the least but as the saying goes "We will be back"
I hope yours PMD is nowhere near as heartstopping - good luck with your testing
Regards for now - Ramon
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I was sincerely hoping that wouldn't happen, it happened with my Huntsman, so much so that it couldn't turn right. This made it interesting when everyone else at the lake was doing right circuits and I was having to go the opposite direction...
Some ballasting should help it, I'd also go with the X40.
Ps it does look absolutely fantastic.
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Ramon
For what it may be worth, the prototype Modav/Precedent Huntsman 46" had an identical HP61F R/C engine. We fitted a Graupner X50 prop and screwed a whole load of lead to the frame just ahead of the transom. This kept the back-end well wet and she behaved impeccably.
Your model looks absolutely fantastic, mate.
FLJ
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looks really nice Ramon, congratulations! :-))
Pity you need to add ballast, extra weight, mine weighs just short of 6kgs with batteries, I wonder how heavy yours is, as I have no problems turning, and I have quite a large rudder. Get some video next time, would love to hear it running. Just waiting for some bearings to arrive, then its testing time again! ;)
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I cant say an aerosol is going to do much in the great scheme of things, probably just create more noise.
Andy ive tried a silencer on my zenoah pipe made from energy drink cans and it workled fantasticlly well,no need for wire wool or anything its a two part silencer with a tube for the exit hole works very very well.Heres a cpl of pics of the orriginal i copied from a friend in Sweden.Ramon the Huntsman looks awesome mate well done,im sure once the ballast is sorted she will run very well.
Mart
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Hi guys, it's good to hear you have some confidence that it will get better O0
Lead is on it's way courtesy a couple of friends and I shall ballast it down as you suggest. I also intend to cut the rudder length down by about 1/2" and fit that smaller prop.
It will be a week or so before I can get round to that as a holiday looms so it's going to be about a fortnight before I can get it on the water again.
In the meantime 'fill in the blanks' PMD and keep us posted of your progress.
I intend to get this computer sorted too during the break so hopefully I will be able to open those links you have sent and watch that vid of your boat Mart
Thanks for all your kind remarks too, glad you like it.
Back soon then, Regards - Ramon
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Don't cut the rudder, I did on my Hellcat and very quickly regretted it the first time I sailed it. Cutting it down adds to the instability issues etc.
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Hi Ramon, in my opinion, and comparing your boat and mine, I dont think you have too much of a ballast issue. THe two boats sit pretty much the same in the water, this hull will always do that due to the shape. I think the big problem with stability is the placement of the rudder, it could be too far back, as the trailing edge is past the transom, so when turning, it is almost using the transom as the axis, rather than further up the hull, if you know what I mean!
If you have a couple of cheap rudders, I would try narrowing the blade quite a bit, and see what diffence it makes, if no good the rudders are only cheap. Extra ballast seems a shame, as you are adding weight, and slowing the boat down, if you run at a slower speed, and it still handles/turns bad, then that eliminates ballast. Sadly, you might have to move the prop back a bit, and the rudder. Here is a copy of mine pre final paint and set up. its copied from the original plans, but the angle has now been changed, but it gives you an idea where it is in relation to yours. Dont yet have a good photo of it sitting in the water unfortunately, but it is almost identical to yours, at 6kgs all up weight
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Usually rolling over can be too high a cog so make sure everything is as low in the hull as it will go,also reducing the size of the prop might help,i dont think its a rudder issue to be honest more a ballance problem.Also try and get her to ballance arround 30% from the transom like we do on our fast vees that might help too.You could test the ballast by installing some water bottles in the keel area and see if that does help stability,that way you can find out how much weight is needed before installing any lead.
Mart
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Rudder on ours was 48mm wide at top, tapering to 32mm, x 65mm tall (just measured the plans - thanks again, Pommybill). It was a Ripmax item - Extra Large size, I think.
Hope this is of some use.
FLJ
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Morning All
One last look and post before this computer goes off to the sick bay.
Weighed the boat this morning - just over 5-1/2 kilos - The rudder overhangs the edge of the transom by about 20% of it's area. Cutting down is not a such an issue as it is home made in the first place so another could be made if it doesn't improve anything.
My thinking on cutting down the length is that it's aspect ratio now appears quite high - it was a 'this looks about right' design but given the roll it induces I think that as the turn goes on and the boat heels over the rudder begins to act as a hydrovane and pushes the transom up and out of the turn. Also it appears not to have enough throw - currently about 30 degrees.
Its position is dictated by the propshaft (and it's actually a few mm further forward than shown on the plan) The propshaft is very definitely 'fixed' so I don't think that any mods are really viable. Just thinking though that I could 'extend' the length of the hull by adding some 'anti cavitation' type plates across the transom - just a thought, but another possibility.
Ballast? Well I guess PMD its a trial job. I understand your view on the weight issue but the boat appears so light on the water I really think it can handle quite a few pounds before it would get sluggish.
When I (slowly) 'opened her up' on the straight it literally leapt forward on to the plane with the throttle just about half open and the engine running on the rich side. My thought is to load it down then gradually reduce the weight until it hits the happy medium.
Balance wise Mart it's CG is just a bit more forward than you and the local lads have suggested so any ballast will be used to correct this and bring it further back.
This is all going to be trial and error I guess, can't wait to get back onto it again but that will be a few days away.
Just seen your post FLJ. This is quite a bit wider than that fitted ......... just been and measured it ............ 40 at the top tapering to 28 but 75 tall so I guess it could lose 10 or 12 mms off the bottom without too much effect.
Again guys, thanks as always for your input, please keep in mind I won't be able to respond for a few days.
Back soon
Best regards - Ramon
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As things like prop and rudder are fixed, angles can't be changed - but shapes of the two items also make a difference.
I read an article sometime ago regarding prop design in one of the boat magazines. The X design of props create a lot of lift as well as thrust, I think that those fancy cleaver props as used by the racing fraternity produce a little less lift and could be an option even for submerged use. There was a way of modifying X blades by trimming the trailing edge of the blade to reduce lift.
The same was also mentioned regarding rudder shape and angle affecting the turning and heeling of race hulls - the heeling angle can be reduced a little but deep-vee hulls like the huntsman are renowned for it.
Adding weight should really be a last resort - if you can avoid it that would be best.
Absolutely stunning finish though....
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""""Just thinking though that I could 'extend' the length of the hull by adding some 'anti cavitation' type plates across the transom - just a thought, but another possibility."
you would not be doing anything that has not been done on the fullsize boat.
Proteus
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Hi Ramon,
I would try cutting down your rudder length first and adding a little ballast as the transom looks to be too high in the water for my liking. I had to cut down both my rudders as she would turn to port great but try to turn to starboard and the transom would lift then she would roll and the nose would then dig in before she would respond to the starboard turn. Problem was of cause that you are slipping sidewards for a while before the boat responds to the starboard turn command, not good!!
My thoughts on this is that the wash from the prop/props "in my case" cause a lifting force over the rudders "and hence lifting the transom" caused by the fact that they both rotating anti clockwise. I have made up and fitted trim tabs too but that is to help correct the heeling over I get "even in a straight line" been that both my props rotate in the same direction.
Chris
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Any more news Ramon, how is the Huntsman doing, I had some MAJOR setbacks with mine, now cant get out to test due to days off work always seems to be really bad weather :((
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Hi All,
Just read this thread in its entirety, BRILL.
I have a very small V hull which was having turning problems the same as yours. The rudder is the same shape as yours. Whilst working on it at home, I refitted the rudder the wrong way round but did not notice. The next time I ran it, it was perfect. Then someone commented about my back to front rudder, so I turned it through 180 dgrs. and had another run, guess what, the boat was up to its bad old tricks again, so I now run it with the rudder back to front. So shape is very important. It could be that a much smaller rudder would go a long way to solving your problem, and as you said, they are home made so not too many pennies. We do have an over powered Huntsman at our club, and it spends most of its time chine riding.
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What a fantastic boat. I've just had a look through this thread after re-joining the forum.
Does anyone remember the Ford film "Ride The White Horses" about the first round Britain race? The BBC used to show it as a trade test film during the day for TV engineers setting-up colour TVs for customers.
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Hi Folks, fantastic to see so many people have such a love of the Fairey brand of boats. My uncle had a Super Swordsman that he used to race in the Early 70's. I've loved them ever since.
Anyway, Ride the white horses is on YouTube in 3 parts:
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwQpHrCRpgI
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG5RYuyVxRA
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6iChCEZhYA
In my opinion, some FANTASTIC footage of the Fairey's doing what they do best, Go fast in ANY conditions.
I'm currently looking for a Fairey model Huntsman, Swordsman or Spearfish. Ideally unless I get a Spearfish, or an older Veron Huntsman(28) then I'd like to find either an unstarted or unfinished model. Then if it's the aft cabin type, I can convert it to aft cockpit. The lines of the Huntsman with aft cockpit are gorgeous. Please don't think I'm being insulting to anyone with the aft cabin versions, I love those to, I just prefer the look of the aft cockpit.
Will
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this was a fantastic build, but Ramon seems to have disappeared without completeing the boat, does anybody know what happened? :((
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His profile says hes not be active since June,hope things are ok he seems like a nice fella.
Mart
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hi will just watch the white horses wow ........wow where can i get a copy as this would look good playing next to my swordsman when i go to boat shows
bat44
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hi will just remembered fratton model center in portsmouth has a large scale huntsman for sale needs some work, i believe they were asking £150? if you are still looking
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its still for sale , along with a 1/12 th scale spearfish !
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Hi again, I hope I can get this right tonight!
Again, thanks for your kind comments on the build. Whilst I haven’t made a boat for over thirty years the techniques used have been well honed on building model aircraft – it’s been fairly straightforward – just exchanged balsa for ply and the scalpel for the bandsaw! That’s not to be flippant, ‘building’ is one thing it’s the technical side where a steep learning curve should be readily apparent.
The photo’s? Well that’s definitely down to the camera – a 2 mega pixel ‘Nikon Coolpix 2000’ bought a few years back at what seemed an exorbitant price and now they virtually give that size away with the cornflakes! It does have an excellent macro facility though and is so easy to use.
As you can see there has been a bit more progress. I’m quite surprised at this myself but then it is all the ‘big bits’ getting stuck on at the moment. Things will slow down once the ‘fiddly bits’ begin.
This shows fitting a couple of supports for the deck at the bows. Incidentally does anyone know of a source of these small clamps? they came three in a pack for a pound and I'd dearly love to get some more.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwFw14_LcI/AAAAAAAAA0o/i3l1dgp2qEo/s576/DSCN1209.JPG) (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGKRHx4PI/AAAAAAAAA0w/zKJA0DDbVsE/s144/DSCN1210.JPG)
Water proofing the bows and underneath the deck using two pack Tufcote fuel proofer. The benefit of using this as opposed to other resins is that it dries very quickly on the workpiece but remains very fluid in the mixing cup for several hours.
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGLX1K_5I/AAAAAAAAA04/P-_IaFTjHlU/s576/DSCN1212.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGNC3_P3I/AAAAAAAAA1A/QnMfatY5tE4/s576/DSCN1214.JPG)
I’ve decided to leave the hull skins to the last minute so that it will still fit in it’s building jig for working on the top side.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/SVwGN6Qhq5I/AAAAAAAAA1I/QJODf8RQw5I/s576/DSCN1215.JPG)
Regarding the cabin PMD I’m hoping to make the whole roof removable from just in front of the windscreen. If memory serves me right I think that’s how the original Aerokits Swordsman was done. Looking at the drawings of the Huntsman though I’m certain the roof has much more camber than the Swordsman (kit) so this may make the forming of ply to the compound curves involved very awkward if not impossible though it may be possible to ‘flatten out the curve on the bulkheads a little to improve matters a little. I’m not that far off – next session will be to fit the well deck sides and then dry fit the cabin sides.
Thanks for the invitation Andy I’ll bear it in mind and as I’m definitely a fair weather person these days the ‘Summer’ it will have to be .
Once again a Happy New Year to you all, back soon - Ramon
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Hello from Larkfield Kent,
I have just purchased a copy of the Vic Smeed drawing but it does not cover the complete build, I have discussed it with the suppliers and they were no help. Is there another drawing in the set or an article from model boats please?
I half built a Presedent kit in the early 1970's and now retired and starting again.
Regards
Riyadh69
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PM me for some plans.
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Hello Riyadh69 and welcome to the forum.
ken
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just wondering, why have you posted on such an old thread? would might have been better on a new thread
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That was my first post, there probably was a better place to put it, but it worked
Regards
Riyadh69
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I must admit I was quite surprised to see this back on the top page after such a long time. It looks like Riyadh69 may now have both drawings and if so I wish him well with his build. If this thread proves useful to him in any way it will have been worth the input.
I guess I should explain why the post faded - the boat has never been on the water since that described as just around that time a friend coaxed me into building an I/C engine from scratch. That came at a time when I was beginning to feel a bit jaded and proved so successful that the desire to do more took over and the boats (the Hydro plane too) were rather neglected. Another eleven engines followed so with no progress there seemed little point in posting. Hope no one was offended after all your input
I still have the boats - and about two years ago took up sailing RC yachts with my wife at the Norwich Club. I decided to refit the Huntsman with electrics - mainly for the reverse (it's a built up walled pond) and was able to fit a brushless inrunner which upon turning on on the bench was obviously far too powerful. I now have an 850 to fit but still have not got round to it as the yachts have taken over but I do intend to get it on the water someday - perhaps this will galvanise my butt into action though it has to be said there's a lot that gets in the way and not least the dreaded age thing - however I've resurrected an intention to build a steam launch that began in 1972 - I finally got round to making the hull last Autumn and have just rebuilt the boiler.
My thanks to all who supported the thread when it was up and running - as said I'm sorry if I seemed disinterested, it was certainly not my intention to offend - the longer it went on the more it seemed appropriate to let it die naturally.
Regards - Ramon
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Hi,
Terrific job, well done.
I am refurbishing a rear cabin huntsman at the moment, what did you use for the aluminium surround on the windscreen?
Cheers
Ian
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Hi Ian -
If I remember correctly it was a builders product - self adhesive aluminium foil that I think is used for sealing insulation.
Without looking at it - it's stored at the moment - I'm not sure exactly how I went about it either. I have a vague recollection of applying masking tape to the inner face of the screen to act as a guide. A strip of ali tape was cut slightly wider and applied following the masking tape. This was trimmed back to the screen then the outside face was done using the applied ali tape as a guide, trimming and folding as before. Something like that anyway
Hope that helps some - good luck with your refurbishment
Regards - Ramon
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Yup, That helps, thanks.
Ian
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Well it's been a long time coming but finally the model has seen some water time :o :o
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Z8tH9oLm200/Vn2e0FTAIHI/AAAAAAAANuM/EPap4I1FnWc/s800-Ic42/DSCF7871.JPG)
Having been a member of the Norwich MBC for some years now but purely sailing yachts the Huntsman has sat quietly on the shelf for far too long.
Recently however another yachting member had bought a longer version of the Huntsman and brought it along to try so that was the catalyst for getting a certain backside into gear %) A few small refinements at the bow were carried out including blanking off the front screen. An aerial and the life raft will hopefully get fitted eventually along with the controls, steering wheel and seats, not forgetting those unique side air intakes but hey let's not rush things eh ok2
Some time back I had intended to fit a brushless motor but having bought something I know so little about frightened myself with it's revs and that was on the bench!! Prudence being the better part of valour an MFA Torpedo 850 was bought along with the relevant ESC but again prevarication set in and it too has sat here waiting for the right moment.
Well that's arrived and pleased to tell it's now had three good outings - it isn't quite as fast as I'd like but at 71 probably fast enough. It has a 12 volt 3700 NiCad battery and running on a standard 50mm Graupner prop. I've tried all the range 35 thu 50 both standard and X type but this gives the best speed with a reasonable duration. The prop cavitates considerable on turning - particularly to the right - due no doubt to it's closeness to the stern and that offset rudder so some anti cavitation plates are next on the cards.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gk9EemBCj8E/Vn2e2-NAMhI/AAAAAAAANuc/aSBOulDn2O4/s800-Ic42/DSCF7887.JPG)
These pics was taken on the first outing when there was a fair bit of lead in the stern. This has gradually been removed and she now sits very well and just about comes up on the plane
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ssd1IKbJMis/Vn2e15JCQqI/AAAAAAAANuY/I1SKf8kIhzc/s800-Ic42/DSCF7875.JPG)
After the first trial I considered fitting the brushless motor to get a better speed but having got the motor out and the new one mounted on new brackets discovered the ESC doesn't have a reverse facility - with a walled pond definitely a desirable asset so back went the 850 - I guess I'll stick with that now ok2
Well, it's been really nice to see it on the water at last but despite having enjoyed the outings it's had so far I'm afraid I have to confess I do prefer sailing my Marblehead :-)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b8K5UNLikxk/Vn2ezmFDT7I/AAAAAAAANuE/73pOQ7W0sRo/s800-Ic42/DSCF7864.JPG)
But there you go then - all's well that ends well even if it does take so long to get there. So to all who have followed this over time looking at it on so many occasions and no doubt given up all hope of ever seeing it in the water thanks for sharing the journey with it.
A Happy modelling New Year to you all - may you have many happy pond side days of boating pleasure
Regards - Ramon (Tug)
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Hi there
I know that this is a number of years after the last post.
I was just wondering if you had any pictures of the Electric motor setup ?
Andy
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Hello Andy - I thought this was well forgotten :o
I have checked but don't have any pictures of the installation. The boat is stored at the moment and difficult to get to to see exactly how it was done but from memory the Torpedo 850 was bolted end on to an ally plate that attaches to two movable angle pieces bolted to the original plywood engine mounting side plates. The angle pieces allow angular, vertical and fore and aft movement for alignment of the motor plate - slots in the motor plate allowing sideways lateral movement.
That's about the best I can do at the moment so hope that helps you some
Regards - Ramon