Model Boat Mayhem

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: Turbulent on December 19, 2008, 01:25:36 PM

Title: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 19, 2008, 01:25:36 PM
Well here we go, I've had a year off from building & am rearing to go!

I picked up the Hull  (OTW) & fittings last night - thanks Hugh, & have begun putting the WTC together.

Detailed info is hard to come by, but I'm building Vanguard as she is now, so if anyone has any info' I'd be grateful (Ramesh??!!).
Ballst system will be a water pump - tried & tested in the Sheerline boats & very reliable.
I'll post updates as I go on.
Heres a couple of pictures of the WTC in production - it's a larger version of the ones I made for the Revell Gato as featured in Paul Cook's article in MMI last year.
My Alpha had Perspex caps but I prefer resin as it's easier to machine & I find it's easier to get hold of.

Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Mankster on December 19, 2008, 02:06:23 PM
I don't have any specific info other than pictures available on the net as I have never investigated the class to build one. Andy might be the one to gleen Vanguard info, he has one on the go as well.

Do you cast the resin caps or start with cylindrical block of resin and then cut the grooves for the oring, and what type of resin do you use? You've either got a very big boom box or that WTC looks fairly short, whats the length?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 19, 2008, 05:27:37 PM
I cast a block then turn it down, that way I can custom fit them to the tube - it takes about 2 hours to cast & turn 4 caps.

Yeh, it's a big boom box, but that is the WTC from my Alpha, the Vanguard one is abot 550mm long, I've got capacity for 1.5ltrs water. I've weighed the top & the fittings, I need about 1kg to dive her, so, allowing for air storage, I should be ok.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 19, 2008, 06:49:35 PM
If your cylinder is below the waterline you should get away with about 700-800ml for full trim- this boat has a very high freeboard. GRP is about 1.5-1.8 times the density of water owing to the glass content. Therefore weight can be a bit misleading for calculating ballast tank sizes .

In my case, I'm using 110mm PVC pipe for the module, and it's about 40" long. The cylinder is about 10mm above the waterline so I need about 1600 ml to dive. The extra bouyancy should result in a more stable boat on the water, but your will probably dive a bit quicker, and be lighter to lug about!

I'm making two piston tanks of 1 litre each for diving controlled by proportional controllers. I laminated GRP onto a turned wax former to make 80mm internal diameter piston tanks. This worked well enough, but it was very time consuming.

I've got a lot of pictures of the Vanguard (although more are always welcome), also some nice pictures of the OTW Vanguard that Dave built for a client in the States.

The OTW sail is too tall.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: DavieTait on December 19, 2008, 08:20:24 PM
http://www.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/245252.jpg (http://www.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/245252.jpg)
http://www.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/247360.jpg (http://www.shipspotting.com/uploads/photos/247360.jpg)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXbbV0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXbbV0)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXbNk9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXbNk9)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXbXiJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXbXiJ)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXciL0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXciL0)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXro5r.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXro5r)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXectS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXectS)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXfSeS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXfSeS)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXgxEi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXgxEi)
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: DavieTait on December 19, 2008, 08:24:53 PM
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXgP6i.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXgP6i)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXhd2J.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXhd2J)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXhJtA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXhJtA)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXi7q0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXi7q0)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXijTJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXijTJ)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXj9gJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXj9gJ)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXk8Di.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXk8Di)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXksAr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXksAr)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXlzqr.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXlzqr)
(http://www.postimage.org/gxaXpumA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxaXpumA)
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: DavieTait on December 19, 2008, 08:27:55 PM
HMS Vengence showing the new flank sonar array
(http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/data/511/sub02.jpg)
(http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/data/511/sub01.jpg)
(http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/gallery/data/511/sub03.jpg)
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 19, 2008, 08:55:32 PM
Okay davie's beat me to it!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: DavieTait on December 19, 2008, 09:31:30 PM
Thats all of the ones I can find , most are ones linked to on Subpirates the others ones I've found online. If I find any more i'll put them up here
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 20, 2008, 10:49:49 PM
Cheers for the pictures, Are you intending to replicate the tiles? I'm tempted, but not sure where you'd start.

If i get any info - I have my sources! - I will likewise share, but possibly by pm.

Andy,  how far on are you?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: TCC on December 21, 2008, 01:05:58 AM
I always thought this was a good image:

(http://www.postimage.org/aVUfe7S.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVUfe7S)

and crop:

(http://www.postimage.org/PqQItPA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqQItPA)

Happy modelling.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 21, 2008, 03:56:45 PM
Not very. Cylinder done, all the resin pieces cleaned up and ready to fit. One piston tank is 80% done, tech rack drawn out. I have to make a conical front section, otherwise my C.B will be out of whack with the C.G.

BTW the OTW tower/sail is about 8mm too tall. I recommend the Jecobin plans if you don't have them already.

Here's a picture of the Vanguard Dave worked up. You can make out the tile detail- he did this with an airbrush sprayed through some netting. looks nice and subtle.



Andy
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 21, 2008, 04:34:44 PM
Not got a resin set - only the control surfaces, I'll fabricate the rest, I like the idea for the tiles - I've done simliar on Tanks & planes, so I think it will be Charcoal base & Tamiya Nato block over sprayed, from the pictures they seem quite grey, but I''ll have a word with the boy when he gets home in March.

I think I'll have to get the Jecobin plans as well.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 21, 2008, 04:44:14 PM
That's all I've got too, but they're reworked. There are quite big differences between Dave's and the OTW versions. The rear dive vanes are quite a bit larger, chiefly the moveable part. The lower rudder is bigger (this boat needs all the help it can get), and the ends of the rudder are curvy like the original. It won't be that difficult to modify the existing parts to reflect the changes.

Andy
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 21, 2008, 04:58:44 PM
I remember Chris Cloke suggesting that Trafalgar owners fit the top Rudder on the keel to improve turning, but I found that if you keep the speed down & the Battery weight under the WTC, the problem is managable, I had an Ohio, turned like a super tanker on the surface, but on a penny under water, all nukes are the same I think - Prop behind the control surfaces doesn't help!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 21, 2008, 05:16:36 PM
Makes sense, you only have 50% or less of the rudder area in the water on the surface. I think the Vanguard is as good as it gets for a modern bomber boat in terms of agility, it's got to be better than an Ohio, which has smaller control surfaces, although no fixed shroud to fight the rudder.

With my boat, it's getting two piston tanks positioned about 16" apart either side of the C.G. In between these will sit the main battery pack, which will be either Ni-MH's or possibly Lithium, as they're getting a lot cheaper now and I like the easy maintenance of these batteries.

The boat will run a 24 volt system. I have two very nice 24v Pittman motors with compact planetary gearboxes for the piston tanks, and a Premotec (Phillips motor division) 24 volt motor for the main drive. This pulls the propulsor round effortlessly direct drive at about 1800RPM. Judging by the way it churned up the bucket of water I was testing it in, it should push the boat along well- finger crossed.

Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 27, 2008, 09:45:26 PM
Decided to start with my WTC, I'm sticking to my tried & tested water pump system as installed in nearly all the boats I've ever made.
This is the finished item in the Revell Gato, only real difference is that there is no facility to pinch the water tube - the pump runs off of an ESC.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 27, 2008, 09:48:05 PM
First job, make the End Caps, I cast 2 part Resin blanks & then turn them up on the Lathe,
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 27, 2008, 09:52:31 PM
The perspex is the Baffles for the Ballast Tank, turned down to 5mm smaller than the internal diameter of the tube.

I've gone for internal rods to hold it all together, like this I can access the internals at each end & avoid having to take it all apart - it's the only moan I've ever had about Chris's Sheerline System - Sorry Chris!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 28, 2008, 11:23:36 AM
Just run some nuts up either end of the ballast tank to stop the rods from pulling out.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: dan on December 28, 2008, 12:58:13 PM
hi subculture,
is that a metal turning lathe or wood. im guessing you could turn resin on a wood lathe?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 28, 2008, 01:54:13 PM
You should be asking Paul (Turbulent) his thread, not mine. However that is a metal working lathe.

Plastics will turn okay on a wood lathe, providing you can find a reasonable means of holding the piece.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: dan on December 28, 2008, 03:12:45 PM
You should be asking Paul (Turbulent) his thread, not mine


sorry i miss read it  :embarrassed:  but thanks for the info  :-))
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 30, 2008, 08:55:08 PM
Not much in the way of progress so far this holiday, the Ballast tank is now complete, baffles installed & Ends fitted etc, next will be Tech' trays to the Front & rear compartments.

I've decided to put the motor in a seperate WTC to free up space in the rear.

Looking for Pictures of the Towed array on the stern now, I'm intending to make a start on the boat & alternate between internals & externals.

Will post pictures of progress later in the week.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on December 31, 2008, 11:40:46 AM
Pictures of Progress so Far - Tank holds 1.5 lts water - so about a kilo of Ballast, if I need more I will vent the tank to an external holding cylinder in the bow.

Water Pump is standard Car washer pump with the large intake - this is essential to allow the tank to empty quickly under it's own pressure - it will run on a switch, so no reverse.

Tech trays will be mounted on Brass tube & fit over the threaded rods.

Haven't decided on what to do about the Bow planes, experience with other boats shows they have very limited practical effect so I may not connect them up, if I do the it may be easier to mount the Servo in it's own box in the upper hull.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on December 31, 2008, 02:01:11 PM
Dave said they worked well on the boat he built up.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on January 01, 2009, 08:39:17 PM
Bit more progress today, Fwd & Aft Tech trays made & Fwd section fitted out & Tested.
ESC to go in for the main Drive & Power in Sockets to be drilled into the End Cap.
After Section will hold the Rudder & Control surface Servos along with the Reciever & the Leveller & power output to the motor - Standard 540.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on January 02, 2009, 05:14:49 PM
The perspex is the Baffles for the Ballast Tank, turned down to 5mm smaller than the internal diameter of the tube.

I've gone for internal rods to hold it all together, like this I can access the internals at each end & avoid having to take it all apart - it's the only moan I've ever had about Chris's Sheerline System - Sorry Chris!

My choice is a personal one & in no way reflects badly on the sheerline / Eden design, which gives superb watertight capabilities, it just make taking the unit apart a little more fiddly, becausse by default both ends open together.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: The long Build on January 02, 2009, 05:51:30 PM
Hi
Where do yo get the clear perspex tubing from ?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on January 02, 2009, 06:01:31 PM
Ebay - loads on there mate.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on January 25, 2009, 02:41:58 PM
Still working on the Control surfaces, fitted the original ones, then spoke to Bob at OTW & ordered a new set!

Pictures of progress to follow.

Detail photos of these boats are rarer than hen's teeth!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on January 25, 2009, 03:22:05 PM
Did you order a new tower too?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on January 25, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
No, but I've been on Dave's site looking at his CABAL reports for the Vanguard, so I might be temted

I'm going to tile it with evergreen though, but dont know how far to take it, I'll have a better idea after my trip up to Glasgow at the end of the month.

Also decided to wire up the front planes.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on January 25, 2009, 06:57:27 PM
As I mentioned before, it's a bit too tall. It should be about 7-8mm lower, which doesn't sound a lot but the difference is noticeable. If you slice the top off, and cut it down abit then add a new top from GRP sheet , blend in and re-scribe, you'll be there near as damn it.


 
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Mankster on January 25, 2009, 11:52:25 PM
So do the new Vangaurd kits now come with new planes and tower as per Dave M?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on January 26, 2009, 10:04:17 AM
Bob would be the best person to answer that, but I'd be surprised if they're still supplying the old versions. The tower is a more sophisticated affair, being made of three pieces and pressure cast in PU resin. I wonder if Bob supplies it like that, or if it's a more conventional one piece affair.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on February 01, 2009, 01:38:17 PM
just got the new Control surfaces from Bob, superb mouldings on Stainless pins, the detail is far superior to the originals, the old one have been ripped off in prep' for these to be fitted.

Struggling with the Motor box at the moment, I've decided to fit it in it's own box / Tube but struggling with the stuffing box.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on February 01, 2009, 05:00:08 PM
Yeah Dave did a good job, the rear planes are quite a bit large in area than the originals too, which should help agility.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on February 02, 2009, 09:48:14 AM
just got the new Control surfaces from Bob, superb mouldings on Stainless pins, the detail is far superior to the originals, the old ones have been ripped off in prep' for these to be fitted.

Struggling with the Motor box at the moment, I've decided to fit it in it's own box / Tube but struggling with the stuffing box.


Propulsor has been fitted - this is a lovely moulding.

Next job is to fit the new planes, lower the conning tower & sort the Motor Box out.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Mankster on February 02, 2009, 11:15:26 PM
Nice, I am at almost the same stage with the motorbox. I am using a 4mm Simmering seal press fitted into an aluminium bracket that mounts the motor. I used the design fromthe Engel item that comes with the Lafayette and it worked really well in Akula.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Martin [Admin] on February 03, 2009, 10:52:18 AM
Quote
   Propulsor has been fitted - this is a lovely moulding.   

How good / efficient are these multi multi props on models? they look like good bubble bath machines?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on February 03, 2009, 12:13:47 PM
Surprisingly they are quite effecient & running well, they do Cavitate quite badly if you sit to high on the surface but the one on the Trafalgar (Sheerline) was very efficient & smooth when dived.

They look the nuts as well!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on February 03, 2009, 12:17:05 PM
Nice, I am at almost the same stage with the motorbox. I am using a 4mm Simmering seal press fitted into an aluminium bracket that mounts the motor. I used the design fromthe Engel item that comes with the Lafayette and it worked really well in Akula.

I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, 540 motor house in PVC tube with 2 cast end caps, a Simple Stuffing box made from Alli' tube thread each end to compress O rings down onto the shaft. The only tricky bit is securing the motor to the end cap. Pic's top follow.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on February 23, 2009, 09:36:37 AM
Finally got the motor housing finished - not as Tary as Mankster's but still the same sort of concept.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 05, 2009, 08:34:06 PM
After messing with my Gato to increase the ballast tank capacity & fit a pinch valve to the pump, I've finally got a bit of Progress on the V.

Aft Planes are now fitted & Motor box has been fixed in place.
After the experiences with my Alpha, I've decided to cut the aft section from the top Hull & fix to the lower half & after speaking to Bob @ OTW, I will also cut the bow section away just aft of the dive planes - I've decided to connect them up.

After having a look at the real thing, I've decided against putting the tile detail on, instead I will pick out the hull scribings by dry brushing & adding a scum line, this was very noticable at 1/1 scale - approx 1 foot of off white - Sorry no picks on account of I might have been shot!

Finally back on track to have her in the water for early May.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 08, 2009, 01:30:58 PM
Bit more done over the weekend.

1. Once I'd cut the Bow & stern away from the top hull & fitted a lip to the stern, I had to infill at the bow to make up for the saw cuts, I'm following a principle I saw someone use to improve the hull join on a U47 a couple of years ago. I've fitted Plasticard to lift out section & then slid an additional piece into the gap & tacked that with Cyno to the bow section. The resulting gap will the be fill & hopefuly result in a clean join  Total time spent, about an hour - this is made easy by probably the best hull I've ever worked on, my Metcalf P Boat took days of rubbing & filling to achieve anything like as good a job.

Next job in this area is to fit a locking bolt - probably a counter sunk machine bolt in the keel.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 08, 2009, 01:38:25 PM
I've also managed to rig the Batteries & WTC mounts today.

Batteries are 2000MAH Nicads rigged to 12 volts (10 Cells), sealed in shrink tube & Mastic at each end.
This is the same system I retro fitted into my Trafalgar & posted on here, it is also similar to Sheerlines fit in the Type II & Trafalgar & as I've said before was an inspired bit of thinking by Mr Cloke as you have all your weight as low as possible & all your bouyancy as high as possible making for a very stable boat, the difference before & after on my T Boat was sinply unbelievable & I would go for this set up when I can squeze it in.

2000mah may be a little low, but charging takes about 30 minutes & if I'm still not happy then upgrading the batteries is relatively simple.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 18, 2009, 10:23:41 PM
Got a bit more done tonight, time to start on the exterior.

I've opened up the vents on the casing, I wanted to get a nice clean finish to the edges so here's what i;ve Done

1. Open up the hole slightly oversize & fix Gauze to the back.
2. Form frames from plasticard on a simple Jig on my Router
3. Insert the frames over the Gauze & Fill out with P38.

Once they've had another rub down & final got of model filler they will blend in quite well.

I've also begun opening up the flooding ports in the keel & will get all this dirty work done over the weekend, so hopefully start painting next week.

Also hoping for a new ESC to arrive so the WTC can be finally put together & secured above the batteries.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 22, 2009, 07:53:26 PM
After a good few hours today she's starting to come together.
Today I've fitted 4mm Locating pins in the lower hull to locate to the upper section, to be honest the quality of the join is already superb but this should help in the long term & avoid any significant warp.

The WTC was finally centred up & locating plates fitted each end - 4mm Lexan -  & the Velcro strap installed. I've used this method on all of my subs & it never lets me down - the straps are made from ties bought from B&Q - about a fiver for 6.

Last job inside was to give it the obligortary coat of black.

The outer hull has had it's final "trash" coat of grey primer & painting will follow the final rub down this week.

I struggled with a method of hold down the Fwd section untill I saw an OTW Upholder build thread on the Sub Pirate Forum & have simply copied his method. When everything is complete, the Tag end will be reduced &  hopefully become very discreet - a little artistic licence may call for a small dome of some sorts!

Just waiting for the arrival of an ESC - I've blown my Last Ripmax one up! - also looking for a leveller but will probably sail her initially without.
Painting is next
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Mankster on March 23, 2009, 09:43:07 AM
Coming along nicely, I really have to get my but into get now grt mine ready for the summer...
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 23, 2009, 12:44:32 PM
Got some time off work now, So the end is in sight.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on March 28, 2009, 05:02:45 PM
Finally got her all put together & a base coat of Matt Black Paint onto her -  then after trimming tomorrow at the pond on sunday - she's to big for the bath -  it will be oversprayed with Charcoal to tone down the finish, add the scum line & a bit of weathering.

Final Job will be to add a couple of masts - Diesel Snort + 1
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 03, 2009, 06:32:06 PM
Finished, weathered & sailing well.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 03, 2009, 06:33:01 PM
more..
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Mankster on May 03, 2009, 09:25:26 PM
Nice one :-)) Can you show some close up of the scum line/weathering?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 04, 2009, 12:02:15 PM
There you go

Although it doesnt look much dry, in the water it really has come out well, I'll put some better pic's on next time I sail her.

Not sure if I've posted it before but here's my method for achieving the water  / scum line.

Float her in the bath, leave to steady & add Talcum powder to the water, surface tension will pull it to the boat's hull.

CAREFULLY lift the boat from the water & you're left with a perfect waterline, simply mark with a pencil & wipe off the excess talc'
Mask up when dry, & to avoid any paint bleeding overspary with your hull colour, then add light coats of greys, greens, browns untill you're happy, I try to feather the paint out to loose any sharp lines going down the hull to the keel.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Mankster on May 17, 2009, 09:23:22 PM
Short video of HMS Vanguard....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D3zdtZoiVY
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on May 18, 2009, 08:35:45 PM
Looks good, but it won't win any steering competitions will it! What was the throttle setting there, looks like it was just creeping along.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 18, 2009, 09:56:04 PM
Cranked it right down so it can really creep, this run was without a leveller & she hovers!!
Run slow like this she handles really well & should be better now that a leveller's been fitted.
You're right about the turning circle though, shocking on the surface but much better submerged, same old story though, if you knock off the power in the turn things get better, interestingly, very little lift in the bow when turning submerged.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Albion on May 19, 2009, 06:23:57 AM
Float her in the bath, leave to steady & add Talcum powder to the water, surface tension will pull it to the boat's hull.

CAREFULLY lift the boat from the water & you're left with a perfect waterline, simply mark with a pencil & wipe off the excess talc'
Mask up when dry, & to avoid any paint bleeding overspary with your hull colour, then add light coats of greys, greens, browns untill you're happy, I try to feather the paint out to loose any sharp lines going down the hull to the keel.
so is that talc oversprayed with a clear cote?
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 19, 2009, 10:53:32 AM
The Talc is purely to "mark the waterline" once this is permanantly marked with a pencil you need to wipe the talc off & build up the scum line with Paint
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: sheerline on May 19, 2009, 08:51:53 PM
Hi Turb, I just had a quick thought, might be rubbish but let me run it past you. I never did the talc thing before, but I imagine it looks quite good before you mark off and wipe the stuff off the hull. Would a light dusting of satin or matt varnish actually seal the talc to the hull when it dries, thereby eliminating the marking and painting  process or does it simply look like what it is... a talcum powder line?
Don't all laugh at once please, the sound will be deafening!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 19, 2009, 09:30:51 PM
I nearly voiced the same theory in my last reply!
However, I think it would maybe be a bit "To White" & maybe it would be a bit bumpy - although on larger boats  it may work,  but i may test it out on an old hull - got a spare hull I can experiment on??!!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: sheerline on May 19, 2009, 09:54:11 PM
No spare hulls I'm afraid Turb, haven't made a 'bandsaw' hull for quite a while now. They only ever occurred when my gelcoat went off and i was having nightmares till I found out what the the problem was. Got rid of a couple of Traf tops at noth weald last year though, sold them off as defective to a couple of blokes who wanted waterline models.
Anyway, great minds think alike and I wasn't on my own in thinking this might be a waterline option. This has got the cogs going round here a bit and I am thinking of options to talc, perhaps using coloured powders in the test tank..... hmmmmm.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on May 19, 2009, 10:09:52 PM
At least you have the luxury of a decent sized test tank,

The old fella's Ukula is up for a respray so I might twist his arm & give it a go on that!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: sheerline on May 19, 2009, 10:29:27 PM
Akula eh, thats going to leave a very interesting scum line on the bath then!  {-)
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on July 28, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
The boats been on / off the water for a couple of months now, & after a full evaluation I've made a couple of changes, upped the batteries to 4amh D cells, beefed up the ESC after blowing the MTroniks one with a natty little 75amp job from the land of the rising sun. Oh & fitted one of Mike's little levellers.

She sails well & looks the part on & under the water, After speaking to the Oracle (number 1 son) I have upped the weathering a bit, although he reckons I could up it again by about 50%, especially below the waterline.
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Voyager on August 01, 2009, 11:56:16 PM
Nice work and looks the bizz  :-))

What did you use for the green on the water line as it looks pretty darn good!

Voyager
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on August 02, 2009, 06:17:10 PM
Green ink Acrylic paint  (Warhammer) airbrushed on as a final coat
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Voyager on August 03, 2009, 05:43:43 PM
Many thanks for that info, will keep an eye out for one of those shops.

Voyager
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on August 12, 2009, 09:13:58 PM
Poxy Boat! >>:-(

ESC failed again this weekend, even with a new Motor, but all was not lost, I was in the presence of the Great & the good at the NMBC Sub Regatta at Norwich & it was suggested that the problem was likely to be the BEC getting overloaded.

To cure this I've now installed a seperate BEC  - thanks Andy / Ramesh for the advice - & touch wood it looks to have cured the issues. We shall see...

Any more problems and........ <*< <*<
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: sheerline on August 12, 2009, 10:37:15 PM
Now now Turb, retain the cranium, you will get there in the end. There were a few esc failures this weekend, the smell of death hung over the pondside when the wtc's were opened up. At least only your BEC which failed, I have a dive unit on my bench which looks like it is still full of smoke... it's resin staining!
Hats off and bowed heads for that poor chaps esc! <:(
 Going to open the unit up tomorrow... outside in the yard!!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on August 13, 2009, 07:10:24 PM
Now now Turb, retain the cranium, you will get there in the end. There were a few esc failures this weekend, the smell of death hung over the pondside when the wtc's were opened up. At least only your BEC which failed, I have a dive unit on my bench which looks like it is still full of smoke... it's resin staining!
Hats off and bowed heads for that poor chaps esc! <:(
 Going to open the unit up tomorrow... outside in the yard!!

Yes, it could have been worse, I just think I've built myself a Friday boat!

Anyone from Action etc want to come up with a new sound unit for a large Alpha?

"Fire Fire Fire, Fire in the fwd compartment, close all watertight doors, prepare to surface & vent the boat"!!
Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Subculture on August 13, 2009, 07:54:24 PM
I didn't see the ESC you had in your Vanguard. I recall you mentioning it was a Ripmax model, was it this one-

(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1240/71903064.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://www.ripmax.com/item.asp?itemid=P-XTRA-NOLIMIT&selectedtab=060&Category=060-050

Only has a 1A BEC, and that just isn't enough for a boat running four servos, you need a 2A BEC for subs ideally. Can get away with 1.5A if your servos move freely with little binding.

Anyway, you should be fine now you have that little 3A switch mode BEC.

Title: Re: HMS Vanguard Build
Post by: Turbulent on August 22, 2009, 05:02:52 PM
Poxy Boat! >>:-(

ESC failed again this weekend, even with a new Motor, but all was not lost, I was in the presence of the Great & the good at the NMBC Sub Regatta at Norwich & it was suggested that the problem was likely to be the BEC getting overloaded.

To cure this I've now installed a seperate BEC  - thanks Andy / Ramesh for the advice - & touch wood it looks to have cured the issues. We shall see...

Any more problems and........ <*< <*<

Here it is installed in the aft compartment.
The final pic shows the red "live wire on the ESC reciever plug cut through to disable the built in BEC