Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Yachts and Sail => Topic started by: tigertiger on January 10, 2009, 09:55:28 am
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The Monsson is a not so cheap RTR yacht out of a small factory in China. There has been a lot of activity on the RCGroups website where the manufacturer has been plugging his boat.
What a I will do here is share my experience of building one of these.
Warts 'n all.
I have seen these on Ebay for $200-250.
I got mine cheap in a job lot from the factory.
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What's in the box.
A nice FG hull, a three channel radio, sail winch, rudder servos, a stand and some bits.
The first picture does not show the instructions book or the stickers sheet.
All of the stickers, including those already on the boat contain a spelling error. The boat is called the Monsoon 900. The stickers all say Mousooon.
The book of instructions is in very poor Chinglish.
Both of these issues could be easily sorted. But I have so say that this is typical of many small manufactureres here. They only look at cost, cosmetics are secondary. The fact that this tells us a lot more about the company selling the product is lost.
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Step one is as usual the stand.
If you do this first then you have a nice platform to support the boat for the rest of the build.
The timber for the stand is roughly cut. It does the job.
It is flimsy, but it does the job.
The straps are very thin, but they do the job.
And they also had a tendancy to slide off the tops of the stand side, so I had to glue as well as screw.
The keel weight is also longer than the stand so you need to twist the boat to get the keel bulb clear of the stand, but it does the job.
The screws are steel, not good near water, but they do the job.
Every cost is shaved back to the minimum, and fingers crossed, it does the job.
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Next step attach the keel bulb to the fin.
The keel bulb is made of iron but is well finished. The fin is also nicely made.
However the steel rod that passes through the fin, that the keel bulb is attached to is only 3mm.
This is very flimsy, but it does the job. I would be much happier if it were 4 mm.
When the keel bulb is fitted it extends beyond the thickness of the keel bulb and needs to be cut off. This could have been done in the factory. Dremel time.
I considered filling the hole in the base of the bulb with epoxy resin. I may yet do so.
What does come with the kit is this little plastic m3 socket to do up the nut. You can't torque it much, but it does the job. This is the only thing in the kit that is a nice bonus, and thoughtful on the part of the manufacturer.
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When I tried to insert the keel rod through the hull it would not go.
On inspection the keel tube was glued in place at the bottom with a nice gob of epoxy.
However the top was not attached.
I aligned the tube by inserting a bradawl through the locating hole in the deck. Then I could push the keel rod home.
Guess what. It is longer than it needs to be, so dremel time. This needs to be done as a cap/cover fits over the exposed nut.
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Now the hull the keel are together, what next.
I had heard tales of the jib turning inside out and the job boom getting caught in the decorative railings and near dragging the boat over.
I was advised to remove them so I did. I started by pulling but actually pulled a hole in the deck which I repaired with epoxy putty. It was grey, but I needed to fill the hole.
2 days later I found an epoxy putty that dries white (Murphy's Law).
The remainder of the rails I twiisted out leaving nicely pugged holes in the fore deck. The deck now has cleaner lines.
As an aside, I found there is probably no need to remove the rails. I think the problem mentioned above was due to incorrect rigging, in part a result of the poor instruction manual (I will post about this later).
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The rudder is not quiet as nice as the keel fin and the moulding needed trimming to get rid of a nasty curling at the edge.
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The rudder shaft has a flat side to make sure it fits securely.
The rudder arm is already fitted to the connector rod, which is also fited to the servo. So this bit is easy.
Note the way the hole cut to allow this has been well trimmed (not). But it does the job.
A plastic disc then fits over the hole for the rudder assembly. This is a different colour plastic, but as this is covered by a sticker (to secure it) it does the job.
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The mast, for all intents and purposes isn't bad. It is groovy baby.
And non ferrous metal.
But the two halves of the mast are joined by a piece of plastic and two screws.
The plastic inserts into the masts (not shown in photo) and two small (ferrous hence rust) screws make a a slightly wobbly joint. But it does the job.
Hopefully the shrouds will make it firm enough.
The masthead is plastic but fits well into the mast. Secure :-))
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The spreaders on the other hand are not nice at all. Made from what looks to be stamped steel.
The holes have been drilled leaving a sharp bur that should have been filed or ground smooth. I have seen Monsoon shrouds frayed badley after only a few outings.
Mine also came with an apparent twist in the shroud that could only have come from threading the wrong way.
Once again held on by ferrous screws. And these little chaps heads strip, and so don't over tighten them. But they do the job (once or twice).
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I decided to strip down the rigging and improve the spreaders.
Before begining I did a rough sketch of all the rigging, what goes where and what is attached where etc.
I always forget afterwards.
I then removed all the poor quality riging line. It looks like string and unravels easily and does not appear strong.
The spreaders were then removed and all the shap edges removed.
I decided that I would cover the spreaders in wood, this would add strength and make the spreaders look straight. The plan was also to drill larger diameter holes in the steel than in the wood, acting as friction reducing thingy.
I have heard of people using a plastic grommet to do this. But I have none at hand.
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The ideal wood already tapered for use and in my possession was chopsticks. not perfect, but they will do the job {-).
I first cut a flat plane side using my minitools circular saw.
I then cut off the ends at slightly different lengths to alter the profiles for upper and lower shrouds (not needed really).
I then glued the metal spreader to the wood.
Following this I then drilled, once all the way through for small diameter, and then just through the steel in a larger diameter. (see JPEG in last post).
The lower spreader has two sets of holes (for 2 shrouds), the upper shrouds one set of holes.
Finally the wood was trimmed to length.
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After this I was ready to reattach the spreaders and re rig. I used 40kg Dacron line (from Sails etc) for the rigging.
Some of the attachment points were tight so I had to slacken off the screw to allow the rigging lines to pass through, before tying off.
This tying off is a bit of a bodge, but is as the original and it does the job.
The attached the shrouds to the deck. There are only two deck mountings. With no other information in the instructions, I attached the top shrouds to the forward mount and the mid and lower shrouds (already on the same snap link) to the mounting slightly abaft.
I then erected the mast and adjusted the shrouds so that it was vertical. To help this I used a spirit level across the hull to check the hull was level and then I used the level again to check the vertical. I don't trust my eyes. :embarrassed:
I also attached the rear stay to the attaching point at the transom.
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Cor blimey Mark thats far to technical using a spirit level to check if the mast is straight ;)
Stavros
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Tiger,
Is this your first sailboat? And why did you pick this one? You picked a very very nice looking boat. :-)) Why not replace the screws that are steel with ones that are either stainless steel or brass?
Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
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Hey Stavros, my eyes are much worse than yours. :o {-)
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Hi Andre
This is my third boat.
I manged to get it dirt cheap, so I could not refuse it. A friend got a job lot from the factory.
It is difficult to find regular stuff like stainless or even brass screws in China, and I am also doing this as an exercise in how RTR this RTR boat really is.
If she sails well I will put my hand i my pocket and pay postage for screws.
Yes she looks nice, but like everything in China they look at something good. Copy the look, but have no real conception of who it works. Which is why some nuts and bolts here are still made of cheese ;D
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Cor blimey Mark thats far to technical using a spirit level to check if the mast is straight ;)
Stavros
BTW
I actually find using a level much quicker, and you don't have to keep standing 10 feet away to check.
I know its not critical, but it is easy.
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Very nice Mark..........................but did you remember to soak the cup of coffee first {-)
Regards
John
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Very nice Mark..........................but did you remember to soak the cup of coffee first {-)
Regards
John
Drat
I knew I had forgotten something.
This is a side project for me. My first love is historic sail. So I probably wasn't giving full attention to the caffeine quotient.
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Tiger,
If you need new screws let me know and I will get what you need and mail them to you, I work in a Hobby shop and some of these we have in stock other wise I can go to a good hard ware store and get you better ones. We also have here in Portland a company that all they do is sell screws, nuts and bolts in all sizes materials.
I also got a real good deal on my Fairwind III which is why I picked it over the others we have in the store. Some of the ones we have look more like ocean racers and this one looks ,ore like a cruising sailboat.
Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
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Tigertiger: Excellent build so far, will be watching this build progress anxiously to the finish, as it looks like to have great potential. O0 I especially am interested in the fiberglass hall and will be following your progress. Way to go! Possible buy for me, lots of luck.
ralph1937 :-))
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Yes she looks nice, but like everything in China they look at something good. Copy the look, but have no real conception of who it works. Which is why some nuts and bolts here are still made of cheese ;D
Where have I heard that said before?
(some thread somewhere about a Victor or a Hurricane ok2)
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Correct Martin
It was you. And you were bang on the money :-)). But you were not the first to say it and you won't be the last. ;)
My brother in law was saying exaclty the same thing about Chinese goods 20 years ago when talking about how they were copying machine tools but had no idea about metalurgy.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. {-)
But cloning product is in a slightly different league :o
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tigertiger,
Great write up supported by good photographs. Very informative to have the "warts and all".
I have two worries:
1. How will you eat your dinner now you have sawn up your chopsticks?
2. Are we soon to loose you to a lucrative position re-writing instructions in good (but unamusing) English?
Roger in France.
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Just as a slight re-cap
Here is a picture of the shrouds connecting to the deck. The top shrouds connect to the forward of the two deck rings. The mid and bottom shrouds connect to the other deck ring, sharing the same snap link.
These are adjusted by bowsies
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The next two steps in the instructions are to fit the main sail and then attach the main boom. This is the order I did it in. Doing things the other way round may be better.
Fitting the main sail
Inserting the sail is easy. There is a bolt rope attached to the front of the sail, this slides down into the round groove in the rear of the groovy mast.
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Next attach the main boom to the mast with the bolt.
Then attach the kick strap. This is non adjustable and looks ok. It will add some tension to the system and strengthen the whole boom attachment. So it will do.
The boom was very resistant to swing, as I had slightly over tightened the nut. I slackened it off and the boom swings better now, however I am worried that the nut will come undone and that the bolt will fall out. I must get some ThreadLoc on it.
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After this you can fix the sail to the mast at bottom and top.
At the foot of the sail is a downhaul (maybe the wrong term). I could not see any deck ring or any other place to attach this to pull down. So I simply ran it round the connector for the kick strap then back up to the cleat.
I hate cleats on a model; they always make adjusting hard, as they can be a pig to tighten. But it will do.
At the top of the sail the mainsail up haul was threaded through the mast head and then tied around the cleat. You will notice I have not used a ‘figure of eight‘ around the cleat. I just use CA knots. Not correct form, but it will do.
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The mainsail outhaul
In the instruction manual it appears to show the outhaul sheet (rope) being looped around the finger like end of the boom and then returning to the cleat on the boom, sorry about the out of focus picture. But it’ll do .
I didn’t like this. It would make adjusting the camber of the sail difficult, like I said I hate cleats for adjusting. So I decided to replace this set up.
I cut of the line connected to end of the sail and replaced it with 25kg Dacron. The original line tends to come apart another bad pic sorry. And would be no good for threading through bowsies.
Then the outhaul was threaded through the hole in the end of the boom ‘finger’, I hope it is strong enough. Then through a bowsie and on to a snap link attached to the boom at the ring about ¼ length from the aft end of the boom. I also get to lose a cleat and one of the ferrous screws O0.
A tip
Sorry if I am teaching my granny how to suck eggs. When threading rigging (for those who do not already know it), is to run a drop of very thin CA glue (superglue) onto the cord, allow it to dry hard and then slash cut the end into a point. This makes threading very easy.
N.B.
Sail camber, is when the foot of the sail is allowed slack so that is can become rounded/bellied when it fills with wind. High winds means small camber, light winds and you want a belly in the sail.
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Attaching the jib sail.
The jib sail comes already fitted to the jib boom, and there is a snap link and swivel attached to the boom.
First connect the snap link to the deck ring on the foredeck. This snap link is not strong, the ones that I will be adding later are much stronger. But they will do.
The head of the sail comes fully rigged with a loop and an adjustment bowsie. I ran these through the ring at the front of the mast and then to the cleat. This may be wrong. I think I should have run it from this ring up to the hole in the mast head before returning to the cleat.
I the future I will run it up to the masthead and replace the cleat with an eye. I will then have a bowsie between the mast head and this new eye to make adjustment easy.
I need to buy more bowsies first.
The original bowsies on this are poorly made and one broke because the material used seems brittle you will also note that the holes are very sharp edged and feeding line through them difficult. This makes adjustment of the lines and sheets very difficult. They won’t quiet do.
At his point I also attached the antenna wire (very thick) to the mast using black electrical tape.
Addendum
The battens fell off the jib very easily. Although stuck on with double sided tape. I guess the sail was not cleaned prior to the battens being stuck on. One batten was lost.
For replacement batten I like to use the clear harder (but still flexible) plastic 'blister pack', that a lot of tools or electrical product comes in. You know the stuff where you have to open it with a pair of scissors. Strips of this stuck on with double sided sticky tape are good as battens.
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Attaching the jib sheet (rope controlling the jib)
There are no clear instructions in the instruction book on where to connect the jib sheet. In an earlier post I mentioned reports of the jib boom twisting inside out (so to speak), getting caught in the mock handrails and almost dragging the boat under. I believe this to be caused by incorrect rigging on the part of the builder, aided by the poor instruction manual.
The jib sheet should be run through the small plastic ring at the end of the jib boom and then run down to the ring about half way along the boom. Not the other way around. Or else the jib boom will turn out too far and cause problems.
The kit supplied only has the jib sheet, which can be tied off to the boom.
It’ll do for some but not for me. I also added a bowsie to allow for adjustment.
The jib and main sheets are made of a very low quality and rather thick line. I will replace them with Dacron line one day. But for now, they will do.
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On the jib outhaul there is no adjustment. It is merely tied off to the end of the boom. But it will do.
Well it might do for some, but not for me. Even my humble little Thunder Tiger Victoria has adjustment here.
I cut of the old jib outhaul and replaced it with 25kg Dacron. Then ran it through the eye at the end of the boom, before running to the eye halfway down the jib boom.
Then at the end I attached a bowsie and snap link. The bowsie will allow me to adjust the sail camber easily.
The snap link was used because the ring is almost filled by the jib sheet. In reality I should have put the snap link on the end of the jib sheet.
I will do this when I replace the running rigging (the rigging that runs to control the sails) at a later date.
But for now it will do.
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Attaching the main sheet (rope controlling the main sail)
The main boom comes with a snap link and swivel attached to a ring about ¼ the way from the aft end. The main sheet attaches here.
I like a bit of adjustment so also added a bowsie here. It is tricky as this is such a short length. But I don’t like it when the only control I have of where the boom stops is the trim on my radio. Otherwise if it over pulls it can rip the radio tray out, or the shrouds or even punch the mast through the deck.
You will also see in the pic I have not trimmed off any line yet. I have found that most knots come undone or shift at the first few outings. By leaving a bit of spare length I can easily undo and redo knots. Once it is all sorted I use CA knots.
Bowsies shown from sailsetc. No connection, just a happy customer. Must buy some more as I have run out now and all the bowsies need replacing really. But for now they will do.
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Electronics
All the electrics come supplied and fitted. And this is where the real value of a boat like this should really come to the fore. Both in terms of ‘bang for your buck’ and in simplicity of getting on the water.
It has a sail winch servo, rudder servo (connected to push rod), receiver (Rx) and battery box already installed.
The Radio transmitter/reciever (Tx/Rx)
The radio is a three channel 27Mhz radio, with crystals (Xtals) that can be changed.
Two channels are proportional (they have a stick, the more you move it the more the servo moves in the boat – in proportion).
The third on/off function channel which could be used for lights or auxiliary motor (on off only); if it was a 3 channel Rx, but it isn’t.
The Rx shows slots for 3 channels, but channel 3 is where the battery is connected.
First job is to install the Tx antenna. After several attempts I could not find where to locate the antenna in the Tx to screw the base home. So off came the back of the Tx.
Once I knew where to guide it, I fitted the antenna.
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Next I installed the batteries in both the Tx and the boat.
Then switched on the Tx: Nada, nicks, nowt, not even a glimmer of a red LED.
I don’t for a moment believe it was anything to do with me taking off the back of the set. And if it were that fragile it would soon let me down at the lakeside.
I contacted my friend whom I bought the boat with as part of a job lot to see if anybody else had a similar problem and if there was a fix. He said yes, and it was a poor wire connection to the battery pack. My mate also said he had binned his radio
I checked my battery pack, perfect. I also looked at other wires I could see immediately, all look OK.
Of the seven people I know who have had a Monsoon 900, at least three have had radio failure. I do not want this at lakeside, even if I could get mine to work.
The Tx is now in my ‘Projects’ bin.
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In the boat.
One of the things I forgot to mention earlier was the radio tray (the box that all the radio bits fit on/into).
One of the first things to check is that it is secure. I put my hand in and gave it a good twist and tug. It is in solid. Other owners have reported loose radio trays, and poured in extra epoxy resin to secure the tray. But mine seems OK.
I will say that the radio tray is very flimsy and it does flex when the servos are in operation. But it will do.
Another odd thing is that there is no on/off switch, even though the radio tray has a slot for it.
The picture clearly shows the slot for the switch. This leads me to speculate that either the radio tray is cloned, or there were cut backs on cost grounds.
So the on/off is by disconnecting the battery pack. A bit of a pain but it will do.
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So radio tray sound and secure.
Check.
Batteries fitted.
Check.
Xtals installed into my trusty and cheap, and old, Futaba 2ER Tx.
Check.
Tx on. Check.
Rx switched on, well connect batteries at least.
Check.
We have ......
...a glitch.
In fact the rudder is glitching (twitching) badly. Although, the sail winch is fine.
At this stage I am considering binning the Rx as well.
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I then test the system with my spare Futaba Rx.
Look at the picture and compare the Futaba Rx with the one supplied. I know size isn’t everything, however...
And when changing over the Rx I notice the rudder servo leads. This would explain the glitches. The sail servo in contrast looks to be of better quality. I think they are from different manufactureres because the leads are colored differently.
On examining the servo plug I decide I don’t have the tools to fix it at home. I may not even have the tools in the other place.
Standard servos are not expensive, and so in goes a spare Futaba standard servo, in the place of the old servo.
The supplied servo in now in the projects bin.
And on further consideration
The supplied Rx is in the projects bin too.
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When replacing the servo I also replaced the servo arm/star (see NB below).
To do this I had to remove the rod end of the rudder actuator arm.
This is made of a plastic that is perhaps too soft for the job. Removing it was easily achieved by removing the screw.
However, when replacing the screw the jaws just wanted to open and the screw not to take, there is a risk of splitting.
But I managed to get the screw back through the rod end, and so it will do.
NB
Something I learned a while back is that the servo arms/stars are not interchangeable between servos. Not only is it possible for the splines to be different, but there is also the possibility of materials incompatibility. I found this one when I replaced a Futaba standard servo with a Futaba sail arm servo. The star from the standard servo was a perfect fit, but it stripped under the extra load, but not completely, so diagnosing the problem was, well, a problem.
Addendum
Be careful that you have not crossed the main sheet when you reattach the rod end to the servo. If the main sheet crosses the rod, then when sailing the sheet will pull against the rod forcing the rudder in one direction. You will be unable to turn effectively.
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So now I have fitted in my boat:-
- Futaba Rx
- Futaba servo
And so I might as well replace the battery pack and add the on/off switch.
I also decided to use the Futaba Xtals. I read somewhere that cheap xtals are unpredicatable.
The supplied Xtals are now in the parts bin.
In my radio tray
The Rx fits nicely next to the sail servo, and partly covered by the batteries.
Although not fixed down they are secure enough, and even in a complete inversion, where the battery pack may fall, it is all still going to be connected.
I have never inverted a sail boat, I don’t think it is even possible.
NB
All the replacement electrical items I used were spares I had in the parts bin.
They were surplus after I destroyed a TX in a tropical storm in Shanghai’s Century Park with two friends Chuck(Herrmill) and Guido. I tried to clean the Tx with gin and dry it out but it never recovered.
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Final touches.
The ships wheels may or may not have fouled the main sheet. On one of my other boats I removed the wheels due to fouling.
Should they stay or should they go?
But then the decision was made for me. One of the wheels broke. Almost bizarrely the wheels are not moulded in one piece. But the spokes rim and hub are all separate pieces glued together.
Then this leaves two holes in the deck where the wheel base would have slotted in.
I could have filled these with epoxy, but I decided to use electrical tape.
Because, in keeping with the spirit of things, it’ll do.
The deck hatch is made of a different type of plastic.
There is a hook and rubber bands to hold the hatch down, which is a standard OK practice.
However the foam used to seal around the hatch is open cell foam.
I don't have any closed cell foam draft excluder.
So I decided to remove the elastics and I will fit the hatch down with white electrical insulating tape when at the pond side.
The elastics could quite easily go back in as well.
Addendum
On trying to stick down the hatch cover with electrical tape I found it does not sit very well and is not easy to tape.
I ripped off all the open cell foam and it sat much better in the hatch.
I noticed that the hatch cover is made from two pieces, an upper and lower. The upper piece was badly trimmed, and it was an irregular shape. I was able to trim between 1mm and 3mm off the sides, following the lines of the lower piece. I also found the lower piece was not well fixed to the upper all the way round, so a touch of glue was required.
Now it is trimmed and free of foam the hatch cover now sits very nicely in the hatch well. A very easy job to seal it with tape now.
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Well here it is the finished (will it ever be finished) article.
I am not sure if I will stick the sticker onto the sail.
Unfortunately I cannot get her bottom wet at the moment as the canals are frozen. Hopefully we will get enough weather above zero for me to have a play.
And then I will have to learn to sail again as in the past I have only had boats with sail arm servos. I have only played with winches twice, and not done well.
Sail winches and sail arms do behave very differently.
A picture of mine (top) and a picture from the manufacturer.
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My personal judgements on the boat
It looks good.
Sure it looks good, but looks are not everything.
What about build quality?
The hull seems good. But I am no expert.
Small Chinese manufacturers are too cost focused. The rationale seems to be how much can we reduce cost and 'Will it do?’
But generally they ‘spoil the ship for a hape’th of tar’. This is the case here.
If the manufacturer of this boat spent a bit more money on decent screws, nuts, rigging line, sheets, and bowsies it would be a lot better boat. Probably only $2 extra is required.
For another $10 he could probably procure decent radio gear and servos.
This might add $20 to the price, but then the product would be more ‘fit for purpose’.
Is it RTR?
No.
Is it ARTR?
No. Well mine wasn't.
Am I the only person who has had problems with this boat?
No. I know at least 3 other people who have had problems.
Not bad considering I only know of 7 people with a Monsoon, and I am one of them. I have read on another site of lots of small irritating faults.
But at $200+ this should not happen this often.
Is it worth $200-250?
If the radio gear had worked then probably yes. It is a nice hull and the rig can be changed, although it will not be competitive and probably the boat will not be classable for competition anyway.
But I got mine cheap in a job lot, and so IT'LL DO
THE BIG QUESTION
Would I recommend you buy one?
No. Especially not as a first boat. Which is where the market for this boat will probably be, I say this because it is marketed as a budget RTR.
No. Not even as a base for some quality rigging. Good rigging is expensive and should be put on competitive, classable hulls. Other wise it may be a bit of a waste of money.
No. Not when for the same money you can buy a boat of known parentage.
Yes. if you only pay $100, and you are not worried about performance.
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Note
I have made an addendum to posts/replies #30, 39, and 41.
I have also had a general tidy up and removed a lot of typographical errors.
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Maiden Voyage.
The ice cleared up a bit today and I still hit some ice flows :embarrassed: (last pic)
There is still a lot of ice, you can see it in the background in the first pic.
Darned cold too. I wish I had packed Margret's Magic Mitt.
I cannot tell yet if she has weather helm or lea helm as the wind was very changeable in the patch of clear water I found.
She did seem very twitchy at first and tends to oversteer. The connection of the push rod to the servo arm needs to be adjusted to reduce the amount of throw.
She sailed nicely in what were light airs. I am glad I made the sail camber easily adjustable.
It is taking a wee while, but I getting the hang of using a sail winch (as opposed to a sail arm servo).
I think I am going to enjoy sailing this boat.
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I've been thinking about getting myself one of these Monsoons, so I'm following this build with great interest. And very easy and enjoyable to read it is too.
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(I realised after I posted the above that I had only read one of the two pages of this build. Now I feel stoopid). :embarrassed:
I should have said, having now read the whole thing, that I have read this build with great interest. I should also add that I developed some reservations about buying the Monsoon, when I read about all the little odds and ends in the kit that were a bit 'rough-and-ready'. Then again, under Mark's guidance it sounds as though you could turn out a reasonable yacht with only a few minor tweaks, and with minimal extra cost.
And it does look like fun!
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Thanks for the excellent build review. :-)) I'd not visited for some time & passed by thinking it was the older post.
A couple suggestions:
* I'd suggest following the earlier recommendations towards replacing the hatch with some styrene along with waterproof double face tape from B&Q. I haven't seen water in my boat since doing this after trying to modify the old hatch as well as trying the CD case mod.
* Regarding the foredeck rails, I'd still leave them off since we've experienced problems on boats that were rigged per the instructions. Granted, its only happened a few times while running downwind but after watching several out-of-control boats sail away towards the marsh on Maojiabu, the rails came off. Same with the wheels on the rear to prevent the main getting snagged.
Chuck
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This is a good thread. I am trying to determine what features affect stability of modells and how users rate the stability of their model. Subjectively I have 3 stability classifications, Excellent, adequate and poor stability. So the next question is: how do you rate the stability of this boat? The next questions are: 2) what is the length of the fin? 3)what is the weight of the ballast bulb? 4) What is the total weight of the model ready to sail? and finally 5) What is the total area of the sails?
Thanks
George Steele
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George, although the factors you've listed do have some bearing on stability and are the most readily available, probably the biggest factor is only available from the lines of the hull, i.e. the waterline section at the various angles of heel. However, it is a subject for a separate thread and should probably not be included in one in a build log of a model.
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hello i also both one of this, but i have a small problem , how can i put, or what is the correct way to put the cord in the sail winch servo,sorry for my English i`m Portuguese
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I think that you have unwound it. Is this correct?
It should work that when you pull the stick on the remote controller back wards, the line is pulled in. That is the direction.
Be careful that when the line is pulled all the way in there is still a little loose line. If it pulls tight it may damage the boat.
Sorry I did not reply sooner, I have been on a trip.
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I think that you have unwound it. Is this correct?
It should work that when you pull the stick on the remote controller back wards, the line is pulled in. That is the direction.
Be careful that when the line is pulled all the way in there is still a little loose line. If it pulls tight it may damage the boat.
Sorry I did not reply sooner, I have been on a trip.
hello again please see the photo, black or red, what is the correct, and the stick on the remote must be how, this is my big problem since this is my first RC yacht, and this part i don´t
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/paulofigueira/mousoon900_3.jpg)
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Hi
I am still not sure what you mean. The red line and black lines do not help me understand.
If you do not have the lines unwound, but when you pull the stick back it lets line out, then look for a channed reverse button. This will make the servo go the other way.
If you have unwound the lines completely.
The lines should be wound around the outside of the drum, but inside the white cover. More like your black line.
If you have the radio on, and the stick pulled back the line should wind in.
With the line wound in there should be enough left to tie the line to the booms.
The trim control on the radio should also be pulled back when you do this.
I hope this helps.
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If you have unwound the lines completely.
The lines should be wound around the outside of the drum, but inside the white cover. More like your black line.
If you have the radio on, and the stick pulled back the line should wind in.
With the line wound in there should be enough left to tie the line to the booms.
The trim control on the radio should also be pulled back when you do this.
I hope this helps.
hello yes i have the lines unwound completely, i now that when i pull back the stick, the line should wind in and then i should tie the line to the booms ,---------the booms should be how ???
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...the booms should be how ???
Hope this helps
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tank you very much , you are the best O0
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I have been sailing my monsoon consistently now some months and can give you some feedback.
The long term road test if you like to call it.
Sailability/performance
She is very responsive, perhaps over responsive, to any joystick movement or wind changes. In other words twitchy.
You cannot take your eye off her for a second.
OK in the hands of an experienced sailor but will not be 'fun' for a beginner.
She is for light airs only. With a light breeze she does sail fairly well and looks good on the water. But this window of wind speed is very small. She has little heeling stability, so as the breeze picks up she will start to heel and get even more twitchy.
If you sail on waters that have consistent wind speeds she will be OK. Where I sail the wind can change in less than a minute or two. This is a problem.
Reliability
There have been too many annoying, sometimes heart stopping, problem that has almost left the boat stranded. I have nearly lost it on a number of occasions.
Lines got caught in deck furniture. This made the boat un-steerable, even wearing the boat (turning in the opposite direction to tacking) the lines did not always run free, and so evenmore deck furniture was removed.
The jib boom jamming itself on the deck, my fault for over extending the sheets, when the jib reversed itself. But is basically a design fault with the rigging. The result was that the boat was stranded and would not steer as the jib was now acting like a weather vain. She drifted off and luckily the collision with a bridge unjammed the jib boom.
Healing to far and taking on water. Last time out my Monsoon took on a some water and now I don't have a functioning RX. The wind picked up while I was out. The boat was just going around and around in the water and drifting down the canal, not getting closer to either bank. In the end I had to go over to the boat club. Lluckily somebody was there that afternoon, and somebody rescued her for me.
What I like about this boat
For me it was cheap, I paid much less than 200 dollars.
It looks good on the water when it sails in light airs.
The hull is fibreglass.
What I don't like
You need to make too many changes just to make the boat seaworthy (see build log above).
You may have to change most of the RC gear like I did.
The window of sailable airs is too small.
Too many problems on the water.
Overall impression
I think it is safe to say I have given the monsoon a fair go, and I don't think I am criticizing out of hand.
Not really a pleasant feeling from this boat on most occasions. I have had too many problems, even on the water, for me to enjoy ownership. Unlike my other boats (Thunder Tiger Victoria and Victor Models Mary J Ward) which have been fun and much more reliable (every boat breaks BTW).
It really is light airs only, and even then not problem free.
Having said that, I now have a better idea on how not to design a boat and So when I work from plans in the future I will know which side of things to ere on.
So what will I do with the boat?
I may put in a new RX and keep it as a third boat in case I have guests who want to sail. At least until I build another boat.
After that I may be giving it away, or cannibalising anything I can (not much).
As I do not race there is little point in completely re-rigging the hull, and I have not idea if the hull would comply with the rules.
I am not sure if adding more weight to the keel would fix the heeling problems as at some point she will be too low in the water.
Would I recommend the boat?
What do you think? %)
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Final Chapter
Today I did a couple of small repairs.
Then I gave her away.
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Awe, looks like you threw out the baby with the bath water too soon. :((
Ian in Shanghai has modified his extensively with continuous loop sheeting, PJ fittings, carbon fiber mast & jib boom (a cheap telescoping fishing rod from Decathlon) & proper mylar panel sails (home made). He routinely beats our IOMs on the course in the light wind we typically see here but still gets blown over once the breeze picks up over 10mph. A heavier bulb is certainly needed but I'm not sure if anyone plans to be casting lead bulls in their kitchen to do this last improvement. Mine is undergoing the same mods & will be kept as a club boat for those who don't own their own equipment.
All-in-all, Shunbo makes a decent hull for what we paid. Modified, as Ian has shown, they will sail rings around a stock TT ENTZ & can compete with IOMs under the right conditions.
Chuck
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I agree a good hull for what WE paid. But we did buy in bulk ex-factory. This is not open to other chaps.
To be honest, I just grew tired. :(( :-X
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:-)) i have ordered the new Monsoon 900 hope the finish of the boat kit will be better than in the older version of monsoon that in those pictures
Good job :-)
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would any one have a wiring diagram for the electronics, my boat ( monsoon 1 ) filled up with water, got swamped and it all rusted.
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You will most probably need all new.
At the very least you will need a receiver. I don't know where you can source one to replace the original. You may need to buy a new transmitter/receiver set.
The transmitter and receiver need to be the same type and brand really.
You possibly will need two new servos as well.
With the sail servo, check the dimensions on the casing, and buy one with the same dimensions. The rudder servo is a standard servo.
Any brand will work, but you may need to modify the plugs to fit the receiver. With Futaba this is just a matter of filing of a plastic lug.
See figure for suggest wiring. It is really just plug and play.
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If you do end up having to replace your servos, I wanted to let you know that I was able to order replacement servos for my Monsoon from Hobbyking.com. They were very inexpensive. ** Do not discard the white cap that covers the servo hub, as they do not supply one with the the new sail servo. It took patients, tenacity, and more time than it should to get your goods. Their staff are pretty much order processors and have little if any product knowledge. I had to send them photos showing exactly the items I wanted. Since they were spares and not critical, the time it took to get them was not really a factor, just aggravating.
These are the prices for the items I ordered: 1 X ballast pod @ $10USD, 1 X rudder servo @ $2.20USD and 1 X sail servo @ $20USD. I am sure you can do the conversations.
I ordered two sail servos and one rudder and a ballast pod and the shipping charge was $14.00 USD to Southern Ca. from Hong Kong. They are charging me $7.59 USD for the cap and shipping to me.
Just and FYI - I ordered an extra ballast pod so I could make it heavier than the original pod to improve the boats stability in heavier winds. When I got mine boat, like most of us, I read their suggested weight to add to the pod but it struck me that it would not be enough, so I added a bit more to it. The boat sailed very well with the little extra lead shot I put in. The 2nd pod even heavier. Works like magic!
The wiring for sailboats is very basic and logical, and even I understand it. So any normal person should have no problems.
Hang in there.
Windchaser
Windchaser
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I have just read this with fascination i have recently in the past 14 days got hold of the brother the surmount 800 and had piratically every issues the same. i have made numerous modifications to getting it just right and pleased to say once i had done them she sailed like a dream! if only i had seen your post a few weeks earlier i would have spent less time in getting it right!!
just a question did you swap the lines from the kit to braided? and did you alter the lines entrances into the hull for the jib and boom?
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Hi Prophet.
Sorry for not relying sooner. I have been away, still am.
In answer to your question. I did not need to change the sheeting cord, or where it enters the hull.
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thanks for your reply although late, on the cord inlets for the boom and job i have altered mine if case your intrested, i have widened the holes on the plastic parts and slipped in a 2mm hollow tube thats bent on one edge to allow a smooth curve on the line and not let it rub on the hard plastic edge, this will reduce wear a lot, on the top of the exit i have rounded the tube to a smooth extruded bulge this will also help wear the line on the surface, i have found that it also helps the sails move more freely in conjunction with the movement of the winch.
if thats any help to you feel free to use the idea :-))
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Superb tread.
Purchased a Monsoon 900 last week here in Sydney Australia. Online retailer had an option to "make an offer". I offered AU$176 and they accepted. It came complete RTR. Nothing at all to be added other than batteries. I will be using all the tips and improvements in this thread to build my boat. As it's a Christmas present from my family it will not hit the water till December 25th.........theoretically... ok2
Edit colour change.
Blue is reserved for the moderating team.
Hope you like brown.
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Hey Guys,
I've been using all the tips in this thread to rig my Monsoon 900. Can anyone give me some clues on why the mast on my Monsoon seems to be raked back. Just cannot seem to get it to sit straight up and that's with no tension on the back stay at all. Doesn't even appear to be close to straight. What am I doing wrong.
Also the sheet through the front of the jib seems to be way too short. All I can do with it is go straight to the cleat on the mast, which to me seems wrong. Should it not go through the loop on the mast , then back down to the cleat. Do I need to rethread it with a longer sheet and if so what's the easiest way to get it through.
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Hi there.
With the first problem, has the base of the mast been cut off square?
Ref the second problem.
Hard to tell what you mean.
Any chance of a photo?
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Hey Tiger,
Mate thanks for replying. My mast comes with a fitting already installed, to fit the recess in the deck. I'm assuming this would to on straight...looks OK. Still the mast looks too raked for my untrained eye. I'll check it with a spirit level and maybe take some photos to post here for your assessment!
This is the section in your build to which I was referring..........
" The head of the sail comes fully rigged with a loop and an adjustment bowsie. I ran these through the ring at the front of the mast and then to the cleat. This may be wrong. I think I should have run it from this ring up to the hole in the mast head before returning to the cleat." Mine was just way too short to go anywhere!!!!!
I did manage to cut the old line out of the jib and re-thread a new, longer heavier line. All is good now.
Thanks for your superb build thread. I used every tip you suggested. This is my 1st effort in RC Yachts, after racing RC cars for 30 years.
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Hi Bob
I am not sure what part of my build you refer to. But if you look for the 'reply #' at the head of the post, and use that for reference, it will help a lot.
Have you looked to see if I have a photo. Then you can compare the apparent lengths of the sheets, as well as the routing.
If it is running rigging, it is also possible that unwinding one turn of sheet from the winch drum may fix your problem.
Hope this helps.
Happy New Year BTW.
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Thanks for all the useful information about the Monsoon 900 build, just wish I had seen it before I purchased one in the UK end of last year from Howes Models. Started the build but had to stop as too cold in the garage which I use over the past couple of months. Hopefully will finish in a couple of months once I have in-corporated the modifications shown. then be interested to see how she sails.
Old tube.
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Hi Old tube.
I believe that the Monsoon may have been modified. I am thinking in particular of the keel bulb.
Can you confirm if this is the case?
If so, is there any chance of an update and perhaps pictures?
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Apologises for the delay in coming back, major bathroom and ensuite refits to fit in and the garage completlely out of bounds for a further couple of months. Now back in and restarting the build.
The bulb has been modified, now being a two part moulding with weight material bedded in so unable to say what it is. The two parts are top and bottom whch are supposed to clip together. Alas the resulting bulb had (in my case anyway) a nice gap down the edge all the way round about 2-3mm wide at the worst parts and the about 2 mm deep.
Filled that with two part resin mix and sanded back to shape, which then takes off the nice polished moulded finish so then had to spray paint. This in some areas had an adverse reaction to the base material so it has had to be fair off lightly again and resprayed.
End result is much the same as the photos shown but now a nice red finish and several hours of work over a couple of weeks. Now on to the next part of the build based on the excellent material above. Will let you know how it goes.
Old Tube :
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I thought that I should get back on here and thank TT for all the upgrades that he suggested. The only problem I encountered after a few sails was that a chain plate broke while the boat was sitting in my family room....must have been a strong breeze blowing through.... ok2... anyway went to my workshop..I'm a jeweller by trade and made 4 replacement 'plates. All fixed now.
Thanks again TT.
For a guy that is used to racing 1/4 scale dirt sprintcars .......these RC yachts are just so relaxing....until a 2nd boat appears on the pond... :} ...HAHAHAHA
BTW.. I've discovered that a large RC yacht, gracefully sailing across a pond, will attract more ladies than loud, dirty, smelly racecars...can someone explain why???? %%
Edit colour change
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You're welcome Bob :-))
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Just wanted to add a thank you to TigerTiger for his thread here. I recently bought a "lightly" used Monsoon on Ebay for a dirt cheap price. It had all the usual problems, tangled mess for lines, busted servo tray, busted main keel tube, no receiver or transmitter... but i payed considerably less than $100 for it, and have 30 some odd years experience building boats... but never a sailboat, so i had some concerns.
TigerTiger's thread here gave me all i needed to know to get the boat in the water in about 6 hours work, with zero leaks, and a correctly functioning jib and main sail that didn't catch on anything, with proper rigging and lines. It was an enjoyable error free 20 minute maiden voyage.
my apologies, but i didn't get any photos taken... but then, the boat looks just like all the rest on the thread here anyways... :)
again, thanks for all your assistance on this.
ps, for informational purposes...
I am using an Assan 7 channel receiver, a 1200mah lipo w/BEC set at 6 volts, and a futaba 9c radio with the stock rudder servo and sailwinch servo. the sailwinch servo end point has been electronically adjusted (at the transmitter) to feed just the right amount of line out...
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Hi to everyone. I must admit, I've always planned to have RC sailboat, but as I could not afford on Stockmaritime inventions, I have bought Monsoon from Hobbyking for just as low as 125$ including postage. I got the old TX from some of the earlier crushed helis, so there was no need to buy any. When boat came, I started to make necessary adjustments and replacements.
1. All fixed rigging was replaced with 0.5mm 61kg Mikado X-Plode fishing rope. I was amazed by its strenght - it was extremely difficult to cut it with razor sharp scisssors! I also made the garden swing for my wife using just four pieces of that rope! Shocking... half of milimeter of diameter...
2. Stays and backstay were rigged to the hull via stainless eyebolts and brass turnbuckles. backstay was partially divided into two dependend lines.
3. The keel bulb was filled with lead pellets of a diameter 2mm to the 1.7kg (3.8lbs)
4. All what could be loose, was fixed by epoxy - keel bulb to the keel, keel to the hull, keel rod to the top socket on the deck. You can see on one of the pix, what I have done to replace original top cap of the keel rod...
5. I have replaced original deck lid with the sheet of PMMA plastic lacquered downside. It has seals around, but it is also taped to the deck for sailing. Works well.
6. I plan to replace original mast strainers to the forged alu parts (I have such possibility), but so far originals keeps well.
Today I have sailed on the pond, where all around the lot of trees were holding the wind, so the wind was not stable, gusting from 0 to even 15 knots, from many directions. Difficult area to learn for the first time. I did not sunk, I could return, no single drop of a water under the deck ok2 and I have to admit, that's the piece of a quite good boat for a really small money. Just to say, how much the modifications cost looke like in my case, the fishing line, eyebolts and turnbuckles were only 60$ expense. I plan to make a bowsprit and frontstay to have a possiblity to bend a mast better - bending it on jib ropes is useless.
Here are some photos of mods. Sorry for my poor english - greetings from Poland, Gdansk :-))
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Hi :-) I know I am boring you having fun with my boat as a small child... But I have found, that at Monsoon on weak winds the mainsail leech has a collision with backstay when changing the tack. I have decided to make a new top for the mast. Here is the project - will be cut off with laser using aircraft aluminum of 2mm thickness. Extends point of fixing for a backstay of about 30mm back. That will avoid the collision and a new top will be much firmer than original plastic.
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Sir Gorg
Nicely done! If you haven't yet strengthened the mast at the joint - be sure to do so. I posted a photo of how I reinforcement the mast on my Monsoon - simple and effective.
Boomer
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Boomer - I saw your great advices, not to tell I have used most of them :D but I did not make any strenghtening of the joint - in my mast the joint is strongly placed and has completely no any clearance. When I made new rigging, the mast is stiff at that place as rock.
Here is my today laserwork, pure version in aircraft alu and the same part after painting. Project was perfectly measured and it fits perfect inside the mast. After placing it, I will fix it with epoxy filling the empty space between mast walls and the top foot plate.
I also got the carbon rod today, so soon I will start to make the bowsprit with frontstay adjusted with the turnbuckle.
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Tadam! :} Mast top fixed. Who wants a piece? I have one alu (8g of weight), painted black, with holes for rigging and two pcs of Hardox 700 (20g of weight), no holes, no painting - will need maybe some grinding to fix to the mast. This is how it looks like.
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Nice to see craftsmanship is still alive and well. Nicely done! My fix for the mast required only four new fasteners and a drilling a few holes. The plastic insert the factory provides was not able to keep the mast form bending at that junction. Thus the through bolting. Your set up looks terrific and should provide all the support you need.
Thanks for sharing the pictures!
Boomer
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Hi All
I am a newbie to Mayhem and, being on old Aussie yachtie well and truly grounded, have recently bought a Monsoon 900 to play with in my retirement.
I have read some of Tigertiger,s posts re strengthening etc. and have just about got the boat ready for the water as it comes in the box but I would like to upgrade the rigging - backstay, shrouds etc. Could someone please recommend suitable cord and its source for this .
Obviously this boats faults and their fixes have been well documented in this forum and I would be thankful for any assistance .
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Strathie from Aussie again
Just further to the main in the backstay problem ,I have the same issue but plan on simply trimming some off the leech of the sail. I trust the fabric will not fray and the slight trim should not affect performance.
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Hi!
In my first post here (a little higher) I have made a few comments on the cord I have used - it is Mikado X-Plode 0.50mm 61,4kg fishing rope. I name it rope instead of cord, as it is two times stronger than Spectra :-) As Mikado fishing equipment is quite popular all over the world, I think you should have no problem to buy it. But if you will not find it, I can cut off a few metres from my roll and send to you by post... I have bought 150m, such quantity is enough to rig ten Monsoon's {-) I can send you also a new top for the mast - you will move the backstay back...
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Thanks for that Sir _Gorg
Very kind of you and very prompt -I'm surprised
I am sure if I can't find Mikado I will find something similar but I might take you up on your offer of the masthead fitting.
My email is brian.strathmore@gmail.com to arrange delivery and any costs
Thanks Again
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I might take you up on your offer of the masthead fitting.
That's good choice - better than cutting the sail - it can start shred on the cut edge. Please drop me the shipping address on radek.cholewinski(at)wp.pl. Do not worry about the cost - masthead fitting is free of charge ok2 and the letter to Australia will also be cheap - the fitting weight is only 8 grams.
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Finally got the time to sail a while. My wife took some shitty SD camera to make some shitty movie {-) The quality is... well, bad? Hahaha... But seems boat was worth some tuning. The speed on the best tack was around 5 knots (!), the boat also survived 30 knots wind gust. The area I sail is surrounded by trees, so wind is unstable, has many reflections from the trees walls. But the fun is great.
Here is nice pix of sailing
and the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtSaueWvmA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtSaueWvmA)
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The photos and video were fine! Sorry we didn't see any of the 20 to 30 mph wind conditions - that might have made for a more exciting video! O0 Looks like you have nice location to sail in - Just need a few friends to sail with you now!
Looks like the boat sailed well, so congratulations are in order. :-))
Boomer
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Sorry we didn't see any of the 20 to 30 mph wind conditions
You will not see such conditions on that water surface, as pond is small, surrounded by trees and waves do not create. Today the wind gusts were sometimes appearing along the axis of the pond and as I have anemometer, strongest measured was 58 km/h, what gives 36 mph or 31 knots. That gust collapsed our picnic table, so it was strong O0 I saw that pond during heavy storm (120km/h of wind) and waves height was just about maybe 20cm...
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@Sir_Gorg:
Thank you for sharing - many of us sail in ponds with shifting and swirling winds, it can be tricky. I also have a Monsoon and they sail quite well.
You may be able to improve the performance a bit by adjusting the sails and booms. Both sails look quite flat, letting a bit of tension off would allow a bit of twist in the sails and provide more power.
Also the angle of the booms needs adjustment - see if you can get the jib boom a bit further out from the centreline relative to the main boom. This can be hard to get right, as the jib sheet tends to catch in the winch a bit especially in light winds.
Have a look at this video - this one is for tuning an IOM that has lots of adjustments, but you can get the same effects using the adjustments you have on the Monsoon, it is just a bit more difficult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JaeKpDvMl8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JaeKpDvMl8)
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I had a lot of fun sailing in a small lake between tall buildings, with canyon effects between buildings, and shifting winds. You actually get a lot of practice reading the wind and adjusting sails and tack to compensate. It really is a skills builder. :-))
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@mrpenguin
Thank you very much for your priceless comments. You are fully right, sails are not trimmed well, what I have noticed already. The movie with IOM helped me much to understand, what to do. Well - that's right - on Monsoon those corrections are not easy to do, but I think, that I applied the corrections in the best possible way. I also decided to add one extra batten on the mainsail - in the middle between the boom and first original batten, looks, that it well corrects leech work.
@tigertiger:
Well, that pond has exactly the canyon effect and wind gusts from almost all directions. I have a lot of experience from normal yachts, but in that scale it seems more difficult as:
- I do not see the angles of sails well
- The model cannot sail so sharp to the wind as the normal boat
- Getting the proper sails trim needs critically small corrections on the radio stick, a milimeter of stick move more or less and I lose good wind
But - learn, learn, learn - that was the task for Monsoon. When I will fill myself more confident, new boat will appear for sure :-)
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Your stick work will get much more refined with practice, never fear.
I tend no to look at sail angles, as much as I do the amount of wind in the sails, and being on the point of luffing.
With a bit of tuning I sail very close to the wind. Sort out a bit of extra ballast and staying more upright may help with this.
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Thanks again for all your advices, folks. The ballast weight in my boat is max possible - I have put in the keel bulb 1700 grams of the lead pellets, no space for more. Anyway, after sails adjustments and booms adjustments, today the performance was - of course in my humble opinion - much better. Not to mention about freaky winds on the pond I sail, which casues some frustration, when after a good tack the boat gets stuck in calm. I also found out, why Monsoon loses the tack on deep heel - the keel fin is too soft and wobbles to the sides too much... Here are some of today made tacks... I did not expect, Monsoon will be so... fast. I did not speed up the movie %%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flJM6ZbBtKk&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flJM6ZbBtKk&feature=youtu.be)
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@ Sir_Gorg:
Thank you for sharing the video. I agree the boat is going better than before with some adjustments.
A couple of things I will mention:
1) I mentioned the relative angles of the jib boom and main boom in an earlier post. In the early part of your video, the angles were good and the performance also. However after five or ten minutes of sailing, it is noticeable that the jib boom gets closer to the centreline than the main boom. This is typical of these Shunbo boats - the jib sheet tends to build up a bit in the winch compared to the main sheet, making the jib sheet up to 10-15 mm shorter. This is particularly a problem in light winds. You can fix this easily while sailing - turn the boat downwind (one boom each side is good) and let the sheets right out, then haul them tight again. This will tighten the jib sheet line on the winch drum and put your adjustments back to about where they were.
The only real cure for this problem is to move to a continuous loop winch with sheets on the deck. I rebuilt the winch setup on my Surmount (it has exactly the same winch setup) - you can see the alterations here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWhI3F_MY74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWhI3F_MY74)
2) The flexible keel fin does not seem to be a problem in my opinion.
3) Regarding your comment that small movements of the sail control stick results in large movement of the boom - I agree, this is particularly noticeable with the mainsail boom when sheeted right in. Raising the mainsail fairlead about 50mm will help this quite a bit. This picture shows a method I have tried that works well. The "horse" (yellow circle) I have made is a bit too wide and does not look very good; I need to make it narrower. I have also lowered the jib boom pivot point as well (other yellow circle), this helps with pointing closer to the wind and reduces heeling.
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Sometimes, especially in gusts, you cannot tack.
You can usually wear, but you need to think a bit ahead as wearing takes more time and space. The moment it looks like you won't be able to tack, wear. I learned this as the far side of the pond I sailed in was overhanging shrub, a magnet for shrouds.
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@mrpenguin
I understand, that "horse" you made under mainsail boom, has the hole at the top, and the winch rope goes through it? Is the hole in the "horse" exactly over the original hole in the deck? I see also, that you gave an additional support for the back end of jib boom. Is it attached to the same eye on the mast, as the sail itself?
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3) Regarding your comment that small movements of the sail control stick results in large movement of the boom
If they are still using the same radio set as when I bought mine, then the stick only moved from centre to top. Yes this creates a problem of little stick movement equals large throw. I forgot about this.
My solution, switch radio set. Luckily I have spares, with a full range of movement on the sticks.
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I have bought the radio separately - and it has full stick movement, so that is not a problem. I rather think that winch servo on the Monsoon has too many rotations from closed tu full open position. When full open, both booms points 120 degrees from the boat axis, when IMHO just about 80 degrees angle is quite enough.
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I have bought the radio separately - and it has full stick movement, so that is not a problem. I rather think that winch servo on the Monsoon has too many rotations from closed tu full open position. When full open, both booms points 120 degrees from the boat axis, when IMHO just about 80 degrees angle is quite enough.
@Sir_Gorg
Your radio setup sounds to be correct - the sails only need to go out to about 80 degrees from centreline - you can stop the winch travelling further by either adjusting endpoints in the radio if it is capable of adjustment, or if not, you can add a manual endpoint limiter (see picture below). While this looks a bit odd it actually works very well!!
The sail control stick should not be spring centring, it should stay where you leave it
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@mrpenguin
I understand, that "horse" you made under mainsail boom, has the hole at the top, and the winch rope goes through it? Is the hole in the "horse" exactly over the original hole in the deck? I see also, that you gave an additional support for the back end of jib boom. Is it attached to the same eye on the mast, as the sail itself?
Yes the "horse" has a hole in the top centre, above the original fairlead.
The line running up from the clew of the jib boom is called a "topping lift" - it allows fine adjustment of the curve in the jib sail, useful in light winds. The lower end connects to the jib boom at the clew, the upper end connects to the mast crane where the top of the jib attaches. I also have a loose loop of line around the sail about level with the spreaders to stop the topping lift catching in the spreaders. Tension the backstay first, then adjust the topping lift for the amount of curve in the jib leach that you want.
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This has been such a well-documented build - thanks for the effort!
One question ... on these HK boats its suggested that we use a longer reinforcement piece connecting the upper and lower mast halves. Makes sense to me - but I can't seem to extract the installed hard plastic insert. Any advice?
Thanks...
ok2
PJ
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This has been such a well-documented build - thanks for the effort!
One question ... on these HK boats its suggested that we use a longer reinforcement piece connecting the upper and lower mast halves. Makes sense to me - but I can't seem to extract the installed hard plastic insert. Any advice?
Thanks...
ok2
PJ
The newer joiners have a metal insert, they are a bit more robust. Replace it if/when it bends/breaks
Pictures below show a similar before/after for a Hurricane joiner. Damage happened during handling onshore - a gust of wind at the wrong moment..
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Thanks, Mr. P ... so should I assume that nothing more than friction is holding the existing plastic joiner in the mast, and with some effort I can extract it without doing any damage?
:-)
PJ
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Thanks, Mr. P ... so should I assume that nothing more than friction is holding the existing plastic joiner in the mast, and with some effort I can extract it without doing any damage?
:-)
PJ
@PJ:
All the Shunbo mast joiners I have seen are friction only. However, some I have dealt with have been VERY tight. I respectfully suggest you save yourself the trouble of replacing the joiner until you need to do so.
Nots sure if this is mentioned elsewhere - replacement of the original standing rigging (particularly the shrouds) with some heavier, non stretching stuff will stiffen the rig up significantly. I have used 100lb Dyneema (cheap on eBay, expensive in fishing shops) - it does the job nicely. I also recommend replacing the bowsies (the little plastic tensioners) with something a little more substantial - if you don't do the rest, at least do the backstay one, it WILL break with a good gust from astern and either let go or slip; the rig then goes all saggy or may even collapse forwards (I can tell you this from experience!!) Servo arms are a good source of material for bowsies.....
As mentioned, most damage will happen while the boat is being handled, during the trip from the car to the water. You will find it easier if you handle the boat with the sails sheeted well out so they can swing around and keep the bow pointed to the wind.
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Here is how I reinforced the mast joint on my Monsoon (years ago) Using the factory plastic piece and using the hole already provided - with the plastic piece in place put the mast in a vice to insure proper fit and alignment is set - then drill through the original hole and drill three more holes - see the photos for placement. Only cost is the the 4 same fasteners/bolts.
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Beware of adding weight high up.
All the Victoria mods on the mast and rigging are to reduce
top weight.
Spreaders are not needed.
Ned
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Beware of adding weight high up.
All the Victoria mods on the mast and rigging are to reduce
top weight.
Spreaders are not needed.
Ned
Ned
Keep in mind this is a $100 boat that comes with a steel mast and steel booms %% The few grams the 4 tiny fasteners add are insignificant. I sailed my Monsoon with out the "bendy" mast fix and after I fixed the mast and sail it for 2.5 years - could not discern any difference except the mast wasn't like a wet noodle any more. Your point is well taken, but on this boat to me it is a non-issue. O0
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It has to be told, that currently bought Monsoons (as new) have aluminium mast and booms, not steel... Not to mention, that if rigging is changed as I done that, mast if stiff enough without changing the mast parts joint. I also have found last time, that if rigging should be more effective, the lower spreader on the mast is... too high of a 160mm. I have checked it in quite fine program called Sailcut CAD...
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Thanks, guys - I have a spool of Dyneema for the standing rigging, and bought Pekabe bowsies to replace the originals. I plan to use a small piece of hard nylon tubing where the shrouds pass through the spreaders. Those things have edges like an old tin can! That'll get us in the water ... and we'll see where things go from there!
:-))
PJ
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Sir George
I got my Monsoon many years ago, back in '08 maybe '09, if memory serves me correctly. The mast on mine was painted thin gauge steel - all the screws on the boat were painted pot steel and would rust in heart beat. I actually have an extra mast for that boat in my shop - that one is steel too. Wonder when they changed?? Or was my boat unusual? Sold it years ago, doesn't matter. Hey, for the price, I can't complain! :-)) Monsoon and a Nirvana got me started on RC sailing. Still have a Nirvana ll in my collection but sold the Monsoon to buddy that loved the way it looked. :}
Enjoy!
Boomer
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Checked, confirmed for 100% - my Monsoon has aluminum mast and boom. What can that hobby do with a man... :} Because of a poor movies quality I just bought HD cam... But this week possibilities of sailing at Gdansk are close to zero - tropic madness... +40 Celsius and no wind, completely no wind. BTW - other question - what 1 meter boat (or even bigger) can you advise as the next step? Something close to RTR, not the project to be made from zero...?
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.....what 1 meter boat (or even bigger) can you advise as the next step? Something close to RTR, not the project to be made from zero...?
At the budget end of town - HobbyKing Ocean Racer (also known as the "Sailor)
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8360__RC_Ocean_Going_Racing_Yacht_2_2m.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8360__RC_Ocean_Going_Racing_Yacht_2_2m.html)
A considerably bigger boat than your Monsoon, higher and deeper, 1 metre long
A little further up the market, the Joysway Focus, comes in three colour schemes I think. Just recently released, good reports thus far. Needs a good bit of water to sail in. This link is in Australia but will give you the idea...
http://www.hobbywarehouse.com.au/joysway-9902-red-focus-rc-yacht.html (http://www.hobbywarehouse.com.au/joysway-9902-red-focus-rc-yacht.html)
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BTW - other question - what 1 meter boat (or even bigger) can you advise as the next step? Something close to RTR, not the project to be made from zero...?
Sir_Gorg (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13386)
The Joysway Focus Mr.P suggests looks like a decent choice. There is a thread on this forum that discusses this boat in depth. It includes the "pros and cons" and the fixes for the issues thus far discovered - Worth while read should you be interested. Joysway seems to be improving their boats quality on several of their recent releases - the Focus and their new Dragon Force RG 65.
Since you are becoming familiar with the Hobby King Monsoon, you might consider their Phantom and/or the Ocean Racer that Mr.P mentioned. They are all very similar in construction materials, rigging and furnished electronics, at least you'd know what you would be getting into. With a few tweaks their boats are not bad for the money!
The Focus has a higher price but comes as an RTR. I don't think the radio they provide is going to be much, but the boats look nice and seem to be getting some attention.
Your location may limited your choices, not sure.
Boomer
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These guys offer the Joysway Focus for $271US, free shipping.
http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Joysway-9902-2_4Ghz-4-Ch-Focus-Sailboat-RTR-p-50065.html (http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Joysway-9902-2_4Ghz-4-Ch-Focus-Sailboat-RTR-p-50065.html)
May be a similar deal for our Polish friend?
:}
PJ
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Thanks folks for the advices. Decision made, Focus choosen and ordered - I have found it here in Poland... I need to wait, as the store has no stock of Focuses, but they will get it within 2-3 weeks...
Looking just on the photos it seems, that Focus, even being ready kit, looks much better made than Monsoon.
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HI Gorg,
To late to look at SURMOUNT.great boat great price £99 Howes models uk complete with radio.
sails well , better still with a few mods cheers Larry..
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As I see, Surmount is smaller than Monsoon... I have searched for yacht bigger than Monsoon :-))
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Hi have look at J CLASS
cheers Larry...
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Hi :)
Long time no word about Monsoon... so I will show some winter work. I had not much time but I am finally approaching the end of a new sails making. Using SailCut CAD I have designed radial cut sails. All are made of mylar heat-adhesive foil of 24 microns thickness. First I have made blanks of foil, joining it with laminating machine, secured between two sheets of paper. Then printed in 1:1 scale templates of panels were used to hand cut panels from foil. All panels were joined with 6mm double side super strong adhesive tape. Edges were finished with adhesive straps of Skytex material. Here you can see nearly finished foresail. Looks flat on the photo, but it is not - it has all the necessary curvature.
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Voila! My new set of sails nearly ready, fixed temporary to make a photo. Sails are now hanging totally loose, not fixed to the mast and booms at all. As mast is not bent, camber of mainsail looks much too big now. I also need to fix some issues due to a improper measuring of the triangles :} I need to extend forward front sail boom of about 3cm and move top fixing point for front sail a little higher (maybe 2-3cm). Possibly I will also have to decrease front leech curvature of main sail, as camber seems too big even with mast properly bent back... When done, I have only some decorations to be made and I can wait for the spring :-)) Total sail area increased of about 250 square cm, so it was good idea to put 2kg of lead to the keel bulb.
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Wanted to edit previous post... Too late. So I would like to add a newest photo of a ready sails set. I have made new booms moving back also the fixing point of the mainsail servo thread - to the position just over the "horse" on the deck. For now I had to cancel decorations make - special (very thin - just 25 microns) adhesive ploter foil with cutting of the pattern will cost nearly 60$ - so making it is just a... whim :} Anyway - somewhen I will have to do it, because such sails on the water will be... not visible - I am afraid about observation of the sails position... If that cheap chinese boat will not start to fly with those sails, I will cut myself with a plastic single use knife {-) Only thing I have to do is to move the keel weight back as boat is now quite oversailed and can dig the bow on stronger winds. I will make CNC machined stainless wings, which will be attached to the aft of a bulb. Extra weight of 300g hopefully will help.
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I would like to change the internal rigging for fishing line. How do I access the thru-deck fairleads to pass the wire through? There is any guide tube or I must pull off all the servos mounting?
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@kurakensama:
Assuming your Monsoon is standard, you would need to replace the sheets (winch lines) with something that is a similar diameter. If you use finer line, it will not stay in the sheaves of the winch drum, leading to horrible tangles. Also be very careful removing the white cover from the sail winch, it is quite fragile and breaks easily.
There is no guide tube to the jib fairlead.
Regarding getting the line through the jib fairlead - if you still have the existing line through the fairlead you may be able to use the existing one to pull the new one through. An alternative is to use some fine thread as a draw line. If you already have the line removed from the fairlead, push a loop of fine line or thread down the fairlead and fish it out with a wire with a hook on the end. Use this to pull the new line through.
Use a similar method for the main fairlead, that is much easier to access as it is closer to the hatch.
The servo tray can be removed if you need to get more room to work. Disconnect the rudder link before you start and move it back out of the way. Next, tilt the port (left) side of the servo tray up first, this will get you started. The tray is held in a sort of forked arrangement on the two mounts. Some of the trays are very tight. If the mounting foot breaks away from the hull, it can be easily reattached with epoxy. Many of these were broken away during shipping.
I suggest you do not throw away the original sheeting lines until you have something else that clearly works better.
A number of Monsoon owners have replace the standard winch arrangement with a continuous loop setup that has the sheeting all above deck. Here is an example of a continuous loop setup on my Surmount, very similar boat but a little smaller. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWhI3F_MY74&feature=player_detailpage
Hope this helps....
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Thank you! I'm new to RC yachts, I'm sailed my Moonsoon just 4 times and we are just recently undestanding how everything works. I really like the alternative rigging, but is not a project for this year. Yesterday I just trimmed better the sails, adapted the angles of the sails, added a jib boom topping lift rope, a slider arrangement on the jib boom for changing the jib shape and a sliding arrangement and hold for a little weight on the aft of the jib boom. I bought some turnbuckles on ebay for connecting the stays easier, I hope this works fine. The guys on the pond I sail had been very informative and helpful.
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Some interesting and informative reading, having just read cover to cover as it were. At first, I was thinking, perhaps we'd made a mistake with this choice, (wife and I just ordered 2) but as I read on it seems that all of the tricks I had planned have been validated. I also have another trick or two left and as ours take shape, I'll share. We expect delivery in a few days.
Sir_Gorg, do you still make, or have a pair of the masthead cranes? That is some very nice work indeed, we would gladly purchase a pair from you.
Very good write up by the OP and great conversation all along.
As someone said, weight aloft is bad, or words to that effect, and I also agree, I've been looking for a suitable replacement for the mast and have considered carbon fiber golf shafts and fishing pole blanks. We'll also be using carbon/foam sandwich batten stock for the booms, lighter and easier to rig the sail controls.
My wife is very competitive and a very good model yacht sailor so our boats will be built as if we are fleet racing. I'm sure we'll show up to a nearby venue that has invited us to sail in the novice class.
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Hi Farquward
This thread was about the original Monsoon, and it may have changed a bit by now.
It would be really useful if you could add to this thread, or start your own, with your modifications. I am sure that it would be well received. :-))
TT
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Sir_Gorg, do you still make, or have a pair of the masthead cranes? That is some very nice work indeed, we would gladly purchase a pair from you.
Hi :-) I still have 2 pcs. of the cranes, but only made off Hardox (20g weight each) and without the small holes for fixing the ropes. You will have to drill them on your own. But as Hardox is a really hard material, really good drill for metal has to be used. They look like on the pix. To balance them you will have to fill the keel bulb with lead pellets in full (nearly 1,8kg of lead per bulb). The smaller pellets, the better fill will be achieved.
I do not sell - I can just send them to you for free. Too small item and too small demand to make any earnings ok2 Send me your postal address on private message.
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Awesome! :-)) PM sent. Have you done any more with your sails?
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Hi Farquward
This thread was about the original Monsoon, and it may have changed a bit by now.
It would be really useful if you could add to this thread, or start your own, with your modifications. I am sure that it would be well received. :-))
TT
Hi TT,
I'd be glad to add to this wonderful tread and share what ideas I have to (hopefully) improve the performance of this hull. It will be interesting indeed to note the factories efforts to address known issues and compare early hulls to what is available today. Our tracking number indicates we should receive our kits today. :} Needless to say, we're both excited and eager to get back on the water!
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Our kits arrived today! The shipping container was a mess, but both boats were quite safe. However, the same can't be said about the 2 receiver batteries that should have been sent with this order, they're both AWOL. I've filed a claim with the vendor, hopefully replacements will be forthcoming. Notice the different graphics on the packages.
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Claim filed, a somewhat "run in circles" affair, but satisfaction rewards those with patience. We've decided to rig one of the boats as it came, well mostly, to establish a baseline of performance. All standing rigging will be replaced with stainless wire, used for control line aircraft. It's light and strong, much better suited to the task at hand. For now the standard running rigging (sheets) will be OEM. I'll also use some bowsies I have on hand. My hull will be a two tone affair, blue metallic and white, while the wife's boat will retain the fancy factory colors. She has reserved the right to change her mind. (She is, after all, a woman) Meanwhile, I'm trying to source a pair of carbon fiber rods for the masts and some carbon/foam/carbon batten stock to use for jib and main booms. I'm also looking for ring bowsies, to use on the booms for sail shape and sheeting adjustments. I'm going to eliminate one of the spreaders and stays, and relocate the remaining spreader. Speaking of which, the newer boats now have an insert on the outer end (of the spreaders) to prevent chaffing the stays.
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Hi all you Monsoon fans.
Before beginning my schooner build, I bought myself a Shunbo Monsoon just to see if I even enjoyed R/C sailing. I did, for sure!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed_7XEsBHPs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed_7XEsBHPs)
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/10/01/Stowaway.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed_7XEsBHPs)
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The first (unintentional) modification made to my Monsoon happened during its maiden voyage.
The mainsail sheet must have snagged on the helm wheels because, when I brought the boat back to land, there they were. Gone!
The helm wheels had disappeared overboard sometime during the first voyage.
On later sailings I noticed the sheet also snags on the other deck fittings, those little bollards that are meant to look like deck winches. The sheet winch servo has enough torque that, when the sheet snagged like that, it broke the glue joint on the fairlead which feeds the sheet through the deck. That opening then allowed to water to get through the deck.
I have since cut off any of the deck fittings that might snag the sheets. The Monsoon now has smooth decks. No more worries. :-))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W__2EsEbVjs
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/10/01/TangledSheet.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W__2EsEbVjs)
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This is how I sealed the hatch on mine.
Got rid of the open-cell foam that was under there originally and replaced it with some closed-cell foam.
Then epoxied a brass bolt at each corner.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/10/01/HatchSeal-1.jpg)
The hatch then screws down tight using some knurled nuts. I also added a waterproof toggle switch, so the radio can be turned on/off without needing to open the hatch every time.
(https://www.modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/images/2019/10/01/HatchSeal-2.jpg)