Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Other Technical Questions... => Topic started by: Colin Bishop on January 13, 2009, 05:55:00 pm
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I am in the process of trying to complete my Deans SY Medea but the arrangements for stowing the anchor aren't at all clear. It's an old fashioned setup whereby the anchors are stowed on deck and handled using two anchor davits each side. What I cannot work out is exactly how to rig them. The stock fisherman type anchors themselves stow flat on the deck as shown in the photo. The locations of the two davits are indicated by the position of their bases.
I want to run the anchor chain from the hawesholes back up over the bulwarks where it would presumably connect directly to the anchor. There must however be some additional rigging to both anchor davits to allow the anchor to be hoisted over the side and subsequently recovered and I can't find any illustrations on the Net or in my books which show this. I have found some pictures of naval vessels but these show the anchor being stowed outboard of the bulwarks on a cathead which is not the same arrangement as on Medea. In any case I don't want fittings hanging over the side of the model where they are likely to be easily knocked off.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
Colin
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Colin,
On our vessels that had that type of anchor.
The chain came out of the hawse pipes and over the bulwarks.
The anchor was attached to the davit with a small strop which allowed it to be lifted.
Recovery was the same but reversed.
The anchor was recovered to the hawse pipe and a strop fitted round it.
The anchor winch could be used to dragthe anchor up to the gunwhales where the davit strop could be attached and anchor recovered.
At sea the chain would be stopped off on the foredeck and not connected.
Bob
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Thanks Bob that's pretty helpful. When you say the chain was stopped off on the foredeck, do you mean it was simply disconnected from the anchor on deck and secured with a loop hanging over the bulwarks back to the hawsehole?
I still need to find out where the smaller davits come into it. The plan indicates them as being swung outboard. maybe they simply help take the weight when deploying and recovering the anchor.
Colin
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When shipmate60 says that the chain is stopped off I would say it is removed from the anchor stock and fastened to the fore deck (to stop it running back into the chain locker)
I would say the small davit would lift the anchor clear of the bullworks and then the swinging davit would be connected to bring the anchor inboard before stowage.
R,
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Colin,
The chain wasnt stowed over the bulwarks, it had to be fed out with the anchor winch and a rope or small wire.
The only time the chain was led over the gunwhales was when the anchor might be needed quickly, it would then be rigged but layed on the deck.
Bob
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Thanks guys, getting clearer now. I have seen photos where the chain is led back to the anchor which is stored outboard on a cathead but this is a slightly different setup. So it seems that while at sea:
1. No chain should appear at the hawsehole
2. The anchors should be secured flat to the deck.
3. Both davits should be rigged with blocks and line with the ends secured to a deckbolt.
Maybe I should show a light line rigged from the hawsehole back over the bulwarks which would be used to bring the chain back to the davit for rigging the anchor?
Colin
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You could do if you had a lazy crew.
Simple operation with rope and a boathook to rig.
Bob
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Colin, I suspect the second smaller davit would be to enable the anchor to be lifted over the bulwark horizontally rather than have a very tall single davit, which you would need to recover it vertically.
Just a thought.
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Yes Bunkerbarge, I think you are right there.
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Hi Guys, sorry to ask but could someone put up a picture or a draw(ing) :-) for us newbes, don't think i quite got the hang of it, %% Sonic.
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I hope to finish the anchor bit in the next day or so - will put up a picture then.
Colin
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Collin,
No problems, no davits, you have the wrong type of anchor, see the photo.
Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
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Andre, the kit depicts the ship at an earlier stage in her career. The anchor arrangements have since been modernised. Having said that, the kit does have a lot of other errors which is why I am now building it as a generic steam yacht.
Colin
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In the top pic is that NESSIE ?
R,
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Looks like it! :-)
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Aee thar wee beastie get aroond laddie
Sorry could not resist that, by the by the build is coming on
From the picture it would look like the anchor is laid just inside the bulwork with the stock bar still rigged? but this would make some very awkward walkway on the bow.
R,
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I've had another very close look at the painting and the anchor is sat ontop of the bulwork rail
One point is out-board and the other is pointing inboard, it then looks like the tall davit's handy billy is connected to the base of the anchor. not much help to you as to the position of the smaller davit sorry.
Oh do you notice the crew are looking away from Nessie but the dog isnt
R,
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Yes, I didn't want to rig the anchor like that as it would be too vulnerable on a working model. The plan with the kit shows the anchors stowed on deck which is what I am doing. I glued everything on tonight and now just have to rig up some convincing blocks and lines to simulate the stowage being in the "at sea" state. That way there is nothing sticking out over the side although I do quite like the impression given by the anchor chain being led back the way it is shown in the paintings.
Colin
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The tall davits and handy billys would be in line with the bulwarks (in my opinion) you could have the lower block still connected to the base of the anchor, but good seamen would stow and make fast to cleats, well you never know when you may use a davit for other duties. and if the davits are like I think then they to would be removed and stowed inside the bulwarks (as was on an old tug I worked on) we never did get the davit away from its stow clamps :embarrassed:
As suggested in an earlier post would it be better to have a "rope" messenger from the hawspipe to a cleat on the bulwarks
R,
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As suggested in an earlier post would it be better to have a "rope" messenger from the hawspipe to a cleat on the bulwarks
Yes, I shall do that. Also, as you, and others have said, the davit would be unlikely to be rigged to the anchor unless it was expected to be used. Might come in handy for lifting Edwardian picnic hampers over the side! I shall make off the lower blocks to ring bolts on deck. There was a problem with the small davits as they were not tall enough to reach over the bulwarks(!) so I have had to mount them on plinths. The whole setup will be a bit rough and ready but it isn't a super scale model so as long as it looks in keeping with the rest of the build it will have to do.
Colin
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these may give an idea.no not my boat I wish
Proteus
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...why did the shipyards make anchor stowage so complicated?!?! :((
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It was to do with the anchor design Martin. Most ship anchors of the period were of the "fisherman" type as shown in Proteus' helpful pictures above. As you can see, the flukes and the stock are set at right angles to each other to ensure that the anchor would dig in when dropped. But this made it impossible to draw up into a hawsehole or to stow flat on deck. In the days of the sailing navy the anchors would be lashed to a cathead projecting over the side of the ship (as on HMS Victory). Early steamships continued this practice but later the anchor design evolved to that shown by Proteus above. As you will notice, one of the arms of the stock has a right angled bend at the end with a ball on it. The centre of the stock was secured to the shank of the anchor with a pin. When the pin was withdrawn, the stock could be slid through an eye at the top of the shank and turned so that it would lie parallel with the shank which enabled the anchor to be stowed flat on deck. It still wouldn't fit up the hawsehole though so you had to have a davit to hoist it on board.
Anchor design is quite a scientific business as different types are best for different sea bottom conditions, sand, rock, mud etc. Generally, the fisherman type is considered to be rather inefficient these days and all large vessels are fitted with a stockless type where the shank can be drawn up into the hawsepipe. Smaller vessels like yachts may have a variety of types but most are either based on the Danforth or the Plough designs.
Colin
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Not able to rig the davits at the moment as there aren't enough blocks in the kit to do these and the lifeboats so I've ordered some more from Mobile Marine Models. Meanwhile, the story so far...
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:-))
Now that looks great Colin
:-))
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Colin,
Is the deck the printed overlay from the kit?
Bob
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Yes it is Bob but I added the joints between the ends of the planks in pencil. The printed positions of many of the hatches, fittings, mast etc. were off centre which were just some of many errors in the kit I have had to compensate for. The deck overlay is sticky back vinyl but I replaced the styrene deck itself with ply which weighs about half as much.
Colin
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Hello, Since I'm also planning to add an achor to my steam tug, what would be the most appropriate type?
Think about a small steam tug from before WW2, even earlier. This is the one I mean:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11688.50
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Collin,
I just received a set of plans from the San Diego Maritime Museum and the plans include both the as built drawings and how she is configured today. In regards to the anchor it looks like she had a set of removable cat heads just a little behind the windlass and then the davits for the anchors even with the middle of the forward companion way. The cat heads overhung the rail by about 2'. The drawing shows the fisherman's style of anchor siting on the rail, but this cant be right, too much chance of the anchor coming adrift in a storm. It would have made it convenient to deploy the anchor from there though. Also it does not seem right to just have the anchor chain coming back over the rail so maybe they did sit on the rail. If you want I can scan the relevant parts of the drawing and e-mail them to you.
Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
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Andre, Thanks very much for that information, it's always interesting to get further detail like that. If the anchor chain was brought back then it's almost certain that the anchor would be mounted at rail level, probably on a cathead as you say or reinforced mounting as was naval practice in the late 19th C. The problem I have is that the kit isn't all that accurate anyway and what there is isn't all that well executed so I took the decision to modify it to my own requirements so that, while based on the Medea, I will treat it as being a generic steam yacht of the period and give it another name.
As far as the anchors are concerned I will just leave it as per my last illustration except that I will rig some block and tackle in a logical way. That way there will be nothing hanging over the side to snag on anything the model hits!
The plans you have sound very interesting and I would imagine would make a great basis for a 100% scale model of this very attractive ship. I did visit San Diego in September 2001(!) but never got to see the Medea as our travel arrangements were completely disrupted due to the World Trade Centre tragedy. We were due to fly to Las Vegas but all flights were grounded and we had to drive there instead. The phone system more or less crashed and it took two days to get approval from the car hire company in San Francisco to drop the vehicle off at Las Vegas airport. We did have an enjoyable three days in Vegas though with a chopper trip over the Grand Canyon and another along the Strip at night. Not something to be forgotten!
Colin
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Hello, Since I'm also planning to add an achor to my steam tug, what would be the most appropriate type?
Think about a small steam tug from before WW2, even earlier. This is the one I mean:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=11688.50
there are some nice pictures in the middle of the latest model boats mag showing just that , its the steam tug portwey www.stportwey.co.uk/
Proteus
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Collin,
Looking good :-))
And yes that is why I ordered them, as you said the Dean's kit was not that accurate. You missed seeing the Star of India and the rest of the nice ships that they have at the San Diego Maritime Museum, oh wait they have changed their name to Maritime Museum of San Diego . . .
I remember being out past Point Loma when they had the Star out for a sail, what a sight that was. They try and take her out at least once a year for a sail, it would really be nice if they took her out for a week or so instead of just for the day.
Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
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Andre, we did see the Star of India and I took a couple of pics from the quayside. Beautiful ship, as was the Balaclutha in San Francisco. Seems like we have to rely on the USA to preserve our ships! We stayed on the old Queen Mary at Long beach on our drive from san Francisco to San Diego. A real experience as the last time I'd seen her was in 1967 at Southampton.
Colin
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I've been doing some other work on the model and left this for a bit. From previous comments and some more googling I think I have now got the principles sussed. The smaller thicker "davits" are in fact catheads used to take the weight of the anchor between the deck and the water surface. Thus, when raising the anchor the windlass would be used to bring it to the surface. It would then be shackled to the cathead which would be used to bring it up to bulwark level. The thinner conventional davits (fish davits) would then be used to bring the dangling flukes up so that the anchor was horizontal and could be lifted over the bulwarks and lowered onto its bed on deck. The reverse procedure would have been used when lowering the anchor.
Of course the kit instructions and plan explain none of this so deciding what rigging to show is a bit problematical. At the moment I have rigged the fish davits with two blocks and brought the line down and aft to a staghorn bollard near the foot of the davit and will coil the end of the line and hang it on the inside of the bulwark. That looks reasonably convincing. However, the catheads have single sheaves built into their outer ends so you can't obviously rig a conventional double block system. On the actual vessel there would probably have been a substantial multiple sheave block tackle fitted from the cathead to take the weight of the anchor which would have been rigged when required and this would have been led back in some way to the drums on the windlass. As it is by no means clear how this would have been done I'm tempted to leave the catheads unrigged and stowed inboard. As previously suggested, it seems quite likely that the fish davits would have been used for general hoisting purposes.
Thanks to all for comments to date, I'll post some more pics when Iv'e finished sorting out the fish davits.
Colin
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I happened to be up at the London Science Museum yesterday and took the opportunity to take pictures of the anchor handling arrangements of over 40 of the older type models for future reference - hardly any two appeared to be the same! The one that came closest to my current model is shown below.
Colin