Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: nhp651 on January 15, 2009, 01:10:47 pm

Title: heathrow wins out
Post by: nhp651 on January 15, 2009, 01:10:47 pm
I see this government of ours has sold the people out yet again for moneterial gain.
thank god the other parties have said they'll scrap it when they get into power.
can't come quick enough for me. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
if this country gets any worse, gordon the gorgon will be selling his own grandmother and nationalising her. {-) {-) {-) {-)
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: catengineman on January 15, 2009, 01:14:25 pm
In this time of the so called credit crunch how is it that this sort of money can be spent on yet another project.

with all the people now out of work WHO is going to fly on holiday (who can afford to)

R,
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Stavros on January 15, 2009, 02:37:53 pm
Well at least look on hte bright side loads of jobs building etc that has got to be good news suerly.Yes I agree with what has been said BUT one has to think long term here



Stav
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: KenP on January 15, 2009, 02:58:26 pm
Three runways aren't enough for a major airport, not when many airports have 5 or 6.

Answwer would be to convert one of the existing ones, outside London, into a 'super' airport
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: alan colson on January 15, 2009, 03:24:40 pm
How about a big super airport near the southcoast, maybe Bournemouth, what do you think of that then KenP?
It does not matter where is suggested, it will always be wrong for someone.
Alan
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Rex Hunt on January 15, 2009, 04:48:39 pm
In this time of the so called credit crunch how is it that this sort of money can be spent on yet another project.

with all the people now out of work WHO is going to fly on holiday (who can afford to)

R,


Politicians.......and Bankers!


Rex
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: nhp651 on January 15, 2009, 07:44:46 pm
Stavros, would you be so keen to welcome new jobs if it was the village you lived in all your life that was being bulldozed...........don't think so, especially as the compulsory purchase order is made on a figure of the " AVERAGE" PRICE OF YOUR HOUSE FROM NOW UNTIL THE TIME OF STEELING FROM YOU....NOT THE HIGHEST FIGURE it ever attained.
as prices are now falling.....what price a new runway ???
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Bartapuss on January 15, 2009, 08:52:32 pm
Why do'nt we do it properly and build it on its own manmade island off the south coast somewhere with say 15 runways and a proper high speed rail and sea links to it then reduce the size of Heathrow and the rest to a small feeder type airports and view it as a national project and to hell with the expense.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Proteus on January 15, 2009, 08:54:34 pm
well I think we have sites for all the new nuclear power stations that are going to be built, plenty of jobs for people etc  O0  . WALES


Proteus
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Colin H on January 15, 2009, 09:23:48 pm
The big issue to me is not whether the runway is needed or not.

It is the pure hypocrisy of a government that says we should fly less to prevent global warming and therefore bangs extra tax's on flying and then allows airport expansion.

I also wonder how many low energy light bulbs will be required to make up for the extra pollution.

Sorry to our friends north of the boarder but the sooner we pack this lot back up there the better.

Colin H.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gingyer on January 15, 2009, 10:19:53 pm

Sorry to our friends north of the boarder but the sooner we pack this lot back up there the better.

Colin H.

it doesn't matter where they come from, what party they are in the bottom line is they are only interested in themself
not you or I...........................................
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: snowwolflair on January 15, 2009, 10:50:56 pm
Lucky escape for those people in the Hudson.

If Boris gets his way to build an airport in the Thames estuary - Britains biggest bird sanctuary -  we will have planes ditching in the Thames every other week from bird strikes.  Well what do you expect from a bird brain.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: RickF on January 15, 2009, 11:26:59 pm
Does anyone remember Maplin Sands?

Rick
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: snowwolflair on January 15, 2009, 11:29:25 pm
Wikipedia

The Maplin Sands are mudflats on the northern bank of the Thames estuary, off Foulness Island, near Southend-on-Sea in Essex, England. They are valuable as a wildlife reserve, with a large colony of dwarf eelgrass (Zostera noltei) and associated animal communities.

A screw-pile lighthouse was built on the sands in 1838, which was possibly the world's first.

A plan to build a third airport for London on the sands was considered. The project would have included not just a major airport, but a deep-water harbour suitable for the container ships then coming into use, a high-speed rail link to London, and a new town for the accommodation of the thousands of workers who would be required. An attractive aspect of the plan was said to be that aircraft taking off against the prevailing wind would do so over the Thames Estuary, thus minimising noise nuisance on the ground. In 1973 a Special Development Order was made under the Town and Country Planning Acts granting planning permission for the project, and the Maplin Development Authority was constituted and began its work. The following year, however, the project became one of the many casualties of the 1973/74 oil crisis precipitated by the Yom Kippur War, and was abandoned in favour of a cheaper plan to enlarge Stansted Airport; the requirement for a container ship harbour was to be discharged by the development of Felixstowe.

The Maplin Sands were at that time, and remain, a military testing ground belonging to the Ministry of Defence - see Pig's Bay.

Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: BarryM on January 16, 2009, 08:48:39 am
Sorry to our friends north of the boarder but the sooner we pack this lot back up there the better.

Colin H.

You're assuming we want them?

Barry M
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: nhp651 on January 16, 2009, 09:01:42 am
NO ONE WANTS THEM.
The trouble is they are arrogant beligerent and so full of their own self importance they'll be ther till the next general election, sadly?? >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: malcolmfrary on January 16, 2009, 11:16:47 am
NO ONE WANTS THEM.
The trouble is they are arrogant beligerent and so full of their own self importance they'll be ther till the next general election, sadly?? >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
The trouble is, Neil, you have pretty much defined politicians.  Whoever replaces them will almost inevitably be even more arrogant and inflated with their own importance.  They will just as likely have backers with their own agenda to carry out, which will be carried out legally if not legitimately, even if it needs the law inverting somewhere to make it legal.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 16, 2009, 11:44:25 am
guys
as a bloke that works around the airport i welcome this news it could mean that my job at the airport is just that bit more secure.
you know it is not necessary for all the planes to come into heathrow they have the legs to keep going on into Europe then put that freight onto a thousand trucks which have no need to buy UK fuel and drive it back over the channel to us.
the pollution from all those aircraft that you want to keep going on into Europe is still in the atmosphere weather it comes to the UK or not.
all the councilors & MP's that are protesting are the ones that will lose there jobs if they take a positive stance,its just selfpreservation.
all those people that say there children cannot hear in the schools rubbish are we meant to believe that those schools do not have double glazing.
all those people that will lose there homes the government will compensate them they will make money,after all 90% of them moved to the villages after the airport was built.
and i reckon a good 60% of those very people work or have worked in or around the airport at some stage.
double standards Emma Thompson was in the US for an awards ceremony 2 days before she did not walk she went by plane then got in a chafferer driven limo Doh
and as to noise pollution have you lot heard an A380 land of or takeoff yes that's right you can't they are whisper quite as will all the aircraft that will use heathrow by the time No3 is open in 20 years time.
this is my opinion that i am allowed to have
cheers
gary r
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: snowwolflair on January 16, 2009, 12:44:05 pm
Gary

Couldnt agree more.  I live in Windsor, having returned here after 25 years and the aircraft noise is now a fraction of what it was then.  Even better the additional regulation required for the third runway is going to be applied to the first two runways so there are going to be even more improvements.

As for it being in the wrong place, an airport at the end of the M4, M40, M3, almost M1, and on the M25  and within an hours drive of 30 Million people seems to be the perfect place to have it.  Join it to the national rail network and its perfect.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: TCC on January 17, 2009, 11:20:18 pm

I also wonder how many low energy light bulbs will be required to make up for the extra pollution.

I just start modelling agin and I can't see a bleeping thing in the living room of a night as all we could buy was 40 watt bulbs... it's got better in the last few days with a 20 watt of the new type, it's slow to start but that's as bright as the old 100 watters we used to know.

I'm not against change or green stuff (I recycle) I'm against living in a room with dim light in 2009 passing as 'Progress' and seemingly no options for brighter. As I say, we've ussed it now and got a new fangled bulb that's OK.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: TCC on January 17, 2009, 11:22:20 pm
I see this government of ours has sold the people out yet again for moneterial gain.
thank god the other parties have said they'll scrap it when they get into power.
can't come quick enough for me. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
if this country gets any worse, gordon the gorgon will be selling his own grandmother and nationalising her. {-) {-) {-) {-)

Other parties? Do you think they'll do any better? It's that old saying, 'no matter which party wins the election, the gov.t always gets in'.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 18, 2009, 12:36:46 am
Three runways aren't enough for a major airport, not when many airports have 5 or 6.

Ken, Hong Kong made do with one for years, at Kai Tak, until Chek Lap Kok was built  :-)

Peter.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: snowwolflair on January 18, 2009, 12:42:37 am
In the years I lived there I saw three planes fall off the end of the runway of the old airport.  Nose into the harbour tail up in the air.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 18, 2009, 12:56:17 am
In the years I lived there I saw three planes fall off the end of the runway of the old airport.  Nose into the harbour tail up in the air.
One was a brand new Chinese 747 - oops!  :o

Peter.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 18, 2009, 05:26:00 pm
guys
where did all the tree huggers go??
snowwolfflair lives in windsor (flight path) i live in feltham very much a flight path what about the rest of you lot above!
richmond  reading both way to high to be bothered by noise
staines ashford possibly slough no(used to live there should know)
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: malcolmfrary on January 18, 2009, 06:08:41 pm
Quote
where did all the tree huggers go??
Around here, there is a tendency to regard trees as potential raw material.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: MCAT on January 19, 2009, 01:38:08 pm
lots of good points for and against. I'm wondering if something goes wrong, on take off or landing were do they head for
as a lot of the green sites will either go or they will be to close to the end of the runways to be of use.

there is always my front garden which will now be just to the left of the new runway comming from the west  as for the comment the airport was there before people moved to the area yep true in around 1940 it was a field with a couple of red telephone box's
in it and most of the villages were already there .  before they are finished the perimeter will be the great west road .

 ;D
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 19, 2009, 02:09:29 pm
hi guys
i wrote
90% of them moved to the villages after the airport was built.
but you still moved there why because it was cheep & close to work.
just think that if we joined the EU proper there would be no consultation it would just be built thats what happend with the TGV lines this country is to busy trying to please everbody instead of doing whats needed.
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: MCAT on January 19, 2009, 04:12:06 pm
EU proper there would be no consultation it would just be built

WELL if you think that was consultation  >>:-(   
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 20, 2009, 10:59:53 am
hi
prime minister evil has said this government is in favour of it not that will will be built
gary <*
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Billyruffian on January 20, 2009, 12:14:36 pm
Why have an airport in the middle of a highly populated area anyway?

Build a Maglev style ink between Heathrow and Gatwick which would be a 15min journey rather than a 45min one and job done. 

Better yet build a proper airport on reclaimed land "out of town" with a proper logistics network.

Build on and improve provincial airports so that the guy living in Leeds doesn't have to spend longer getting to the airport than his flight takes.

But equally important, after gormless Gordon has bankrupt Great Britain PLC - just look at the pound today and think of the defecit that our kids and thier kids will have to pay in increased taxes, who will be wanting to come to UK and how many of us can afford to go away.

3rd runway, no way
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 20, 2009, 03:22:25 pm
hi
new railway system to gatwick  will only be a single use system garwick/heathrow not in my back yard they will say it spoils the view they will say.
where do you find enough brown land to build a new airport!
build/expand other airports all that does is change the protest target from heathrow to where ever.
as to using other airports yes i think that should be looked at manstan in kent they have that huge antanov225 in a few times a week so that's already plenty big enough to take 380/747's northolt should be expanded for regional flights all they both need is a new terminal each and the odd new road all done and dusted.
net result nowhere near 20 billion for A new runway.
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: MCAT on January 20, 2009, 04:39:16 pm
i think that should be looked at manstan in kent

GOOD new terminal sorted there the plenty of wood on the way to Kent
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Bryan Young on January 20, 2009, 07:19:28 pm
A few years ago there was a TV series about the building of a new airport for Tokyo. Started off with similar problems to those being experienced at/by Heathrow. British, Japanese and other Nations got together, designed and built a new airport on a man-made island within Tokyo Bay. Not too dissimilar to the problems and solutions for London. The engineering skills exist. The location is pretty well OK, so what are the objections to buildind a new airport in the Thames Estuary?
Well, the Unions for a start. Always looking backwards and maintaining a false "status-quo" (new Luddites). Political reality. Wow! This bunch cannot even see that the decision to build the new runway is going to cost them very dearly in terms of lost seats.
But being serious for a moment. Surely Heathrow has outgrown and outlived its purpose from its humble beginnings. It has grown to its present size by accident, and was never really envisaged as a "world-hub" airport. OK, thousands of people work there. Thousands of people used to build ships, or railway engines or whatever. Times change, and to listen to the latest Gov't mantra the "social mobility" is the new Nirvana. Except it isn't. BY.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Bee on January 20, 2009, 08:35:26 pm
Isn't the new requirement to make sure the airport is near a big river (without too many bridges) :)

I think one of the problems with all road/ airprot plans is they are always so stingy about compensation. If they just offered a sensible package then the displaced could get on with a new life.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 21, 2009, 11:37:26 am
guys
so not in your back yard or anybody else's then?so how about an alternative!!!!!!
yes heathrow should have been built in the east side of town then the west side would be the slum!
the island airport is sinking it has about another 15/20 years but is not anywhere near a bird sanctuary unlike the proposed  thames estuary airport.
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: malcolmfrary on January 21, 2009, 12:07:18 pm
The best idea is a high speed surface, probably rail, infrastructure linking all of our existing airports.  In WW2 it was recognised that dispersal was a good idea.  If it was arranged that the airports around London were reachable in about the same time as a walk between terminals, then much better use could be made of the existing facilities.  Many of the provincial airports are capable of extension, and the increase in national capacity would be much greater than super overcrowding an already overcrowded bit of airspace approaching and leaving London.
Recently, I flew back from Cyprus on a late flight to Manchester.  The matching flight to Gatwick was cancelled for "technical reasons", probably technically under-populated, the lucky folks going to Manchester and getting bussed to Gatwick.  With a fast infrastructure, they would have been much less unhappy.
With birdlife around, airports on estuaries are never going to be a safe proposition.  If, say, an Airbus finds a flock of geese shortly after take-off, most of the flock will get away with it.  The Airbus, lacking engines, will not.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: nhp651 on January 21, 2009, 12:17:47 pm
Iwas told recently by someone in the "know" that almost all long haul regular flights leave Heathrow these days only half to two thirds full anyway. {:-{
If this is true, then why do we need extra flights and therefore another runway to cope with them. O0
just fill the empty seats >>:-(
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 21, 2009, 01:21:27 pm
guys
the problem with any new high speed surface is NOT IN MY BACK YARD.
dispersal was a good idea as people were dropping bombs on them.
it would have to be airport to airport to work that means new lines not exiting ones.
and all flights to Australia are over booked not just at Christmas
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: malcolmfrary on January 21, 2009, 03:40:42 pm
The NIMBY problem will be there whatever decisions are made.
Back in the '60s the decision was made to destroy half the main line mileage of the UK by a minister who derived much of his income from a company involved in building among other things, motorways.  We threw away most of the track that could have been updated for todays needs, even moreso when you consider that trains are amenable to being powered by electricity.
The only people throwing bombs out of aeroplanes today are the US, and we are not currently a target of them, but there are plenty who are planting the things.  Putting all your traffic into one area is not a good idea.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 21, 2009, 09:48:48 pm
and all flights to Australia are over booked not just at Christmas

What does that tell us?  :o {-) {-)

Peter.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Proteus on January 21, 2009, 10:30:53 pm
and all flights to Australia are over booked not just at Christmas

What does that tell us?  :o {-) {-)

Peter.

They need empty planes in AUS to bring more of you lot over  O0

Proteus
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: omra85 on January 21, 2009, 10:48:06 pm
Ssshhh!  Proteus  -  or they may realise that we're STILL sending out convicts   {-) {-) {-)

Danny
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 22, 2009, 01:22:53 am
Ssshhh!  Proteus  -  or they may realise that we're STILL sending out convicts   {-) {-) {-)

Is THAT what they are?  :o  %% I thought they were all refugees from Gordon Brown  ;)

Peter.
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Proteus on January 22, 2009, 01:39:27 am
You mean him







Proteus
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 25, 2009, 11:07:11 am
hi guys
lets bring this post back down to a sensible level
how many of you tree huggers went to last weeks meeting at the Beck theatre you know the meeting about the 3rd runway the meeting attended by Bozo the clown this fool is behind the idea that we build a new airport in the thames estuary cost 20 BILLION at todays prices so that would be about 60 BILLION at completion if the Olympics is anything to go by 4 BILLION at the start now running at 9 BILLION completion i guess about 20 BILLION 3rd runway 9 BILLION at least somebody is going to use the 3rd runway just look at the greek Olympic site.
runway in the thames just think of the cost erosion
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: lasatalayas on January 25, 2009, 11:13:43 am
An airport in the estuary could be a great opportunity for looking at new and innovative transport links to and from it. For example to save disruption to existing infrastructure something suspended above the river?
A real opportunity to think outside the box.
Money well spent.
See these
http://www.kansai-airport.or.jp/en/map/swf/index.html
http://www.airport-technology.com/proje ... new21.html

Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: gary r uk on January 25, 2009, 02:45:55 pm
hello
just think about the large camps that will need to be build both kent and essex sides of the estuary both for workman housing and construction.
plus all the new housing for the workers that will eventually work there perhaps this could be on a green field site.
the new roads that will have to be built for the same.
where is all the rock going to come from to build this new island the rock alone cannot be enviomentaly friendly all the transporting of the same.
whole new roads and rail links will have to be built that means more not in my back yard protests.
only 1 new rail link needs to be built and a few service roads for heathrow 3.
and what does something suspended above the river mean?
gary
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Hagar on January 25, 2009, 06:38:34 pm
Extend the Euro tunnle link and builld the ruddy air port in France!!!
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: BarryM on January 25, 2009, 08:24:38 pm
Ssshhh!  Proteus  -  or they may realise that we're STILL sending out convicts   {-) {-) {-)

Danny


Not funny. I have just been told that six Antipodean relatives are going to descend on us from July to August.  :o  :o  :o. I don't mind the fact that they will sniff out and consume all my beer in the first day but last time I caught one of them diluting my 25 year old malt whisky with Coca Cola. Think Toesupwa will lend me his blunderbus?  >:-o  >>:-(

Barry M
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: omra85 on January 25, 2009, 10:39:51 pm
I caught one of them diluting my 25 year old malt whisky with Coca Cola.

Barry you have my sympathy - and apparently 6 of my countrypersons!  Please keep them, as 'people' who are that cruel to their taste buds should not be allowed within 1000 miles of Scotland. O0 {-)

Danny
(brandy drinker - but cannot bear to see cruelty to other beverages)
Title: Re: heathrow wins out
Post by: Hagar on January 27, 2009, 06:05:07 pm
Not funny. I have just been told that six Antipodean relatives are going to descend on us from July to August.  :o  :o  :o. I don't mind the fact that they will sniff out and consume all my beer in the first day but last time I caught one of them diluting my 25 year old malt whisky with Coca Cola. Think Toesupwa will lend me his blunderbus?  >:-o  >>:-(

Barry M


Good God man! Cola in your whisky! No wonder they were sent to the colonies!