Model Boat Mayhem

Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Tutorials & "How Tos" ... => Topic started by: Seaspray on January 18, 2009, 11:26:30 am

Title: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 18, 2009, 11:26:30 am
Hi
Anybody here done a tutorial on plasticard, or is there already one on the forum ?

Anybody who is good at working with plasticard I would appreciate it if they put one on it.

I am just coming around to start using plasticard and my jobs using it are terrible.


Seaspray
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 18, 2009, 11:29:44 am
Might be worth getting the late, lamented Richard Webb's book which is on special offer from Traplet: https://shop.traplet.com/product.aspx?c=300

Colin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 18, 2009, 11:37:03 am
Funny enough If got it and forgot I had  it, cheers Colin  :-))

But was looking to have a tutorial on the forum so I / we could ask questions when things go wrong, as they will do with me.


Seaspray
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 18, 2009, 01:20:40 pm


But was looking to have a tutorial on the forum so I / we could ask questions when things go wrong, as they will do with me.


Seaspray

I agree with Seaspray. I'm soon going to start using the stuff for the first time after many years of ply and Balsa. I'd like to hear how modelers have used the stuff to make various pieces etc. Also, how to cut round holes (small) for Portholes and the like including Tricks of the Trade so to speak.....and most of all - ASK QUESTIONS :-))

Martin doon under
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 18, 2009, 02:02:52 pm
Well, if you are after specific advice then just ask the questions on this topic. There's plenty of people who will be able to help out. Also If you do a bit of searching you may find some useful stuff. I seem to remember seeing posts on making cowl vents and using hot water to shape plasticard around moulds.

Colin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: westcoaster on January 18, 2009, 03:16:42 pm
Two references that might be of some help -  1) Go on to Model Slipways website and click on Hints and Tips
2) Have a look in Marine Modelling, December 2008 issue where there is an excellent article entitled Tiffys workshop. This deals with the subject in some detail with good pictures.
HTH
Douglas
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: TCC on January 18, 2009, 05:04:28 pm
From the bits I've read and my experience, you can scour p/card on one side and you're supposed to snap the cut clean away.

Then if you ever sand it, you can 'tidy' the piece up by painting it with 'solvent' (the type of glue that melts ABS) That melts the surface very slightly and cleans it up. I used to use the proper solvent adhesive when I had some (keep spilling bottles... anyone (else) ever glued a dust sheet to the table with CA? ) but now I use nail varnish remover (acetone) That seemed to have cleaned up some pieces the other week.

My last 'tip' is to use the emery boaards your partner uses to sandpaper their nails... I've taken that further and PVA'ed some 'wet & dry' type sandpaper to some thin ply. I then cut my own sanding boards that are flatter than the girly nail thingys.

Taking that further, you could glue emery paper to dowel and make 'round files'.

I found the black 'wet & dry' paper works better than sandpaper as it can be cleaned off and I'm still using pieces I made at the very start. Sandaper doesn't fare so well as the 'sand' falls off.

I'll tell you something else I've learned: ABS/solvent won't stand the test of time as well as CA does. A Lot of my parts have disintergrated/become VERY fragile with the slightest tap. e..g. the thin ABS  microstrips become brittle and snap before bending. It's not something you think about when contemplating building but it's not very nice when 10+ yrs down the line, your pride and joy starts to fall apart. It's then an impossible repair as finishes fade and you can't match old & new, plus you can't buy old fittings anymore and you break everything while trying to get in there to repair things.

So let me clarify: the superstructure areas are fine (in the main) as that's 1mm< ABS bonded to similar, it's the thin bits, plus those with little contact areas, that fail. For instance: ladders made with microstip = fail: superstructure and funnels made with 1mm+ plasticard = fine.

As I say, it's not something you think about.

Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 18, 2009, 05:17:46 pm
Cheers all the lads.

But still looking for a tutorial started on the forum as there is a lot of info some of us need to learn. I will continue building in wood but some day I'll have to use  plasticard and I wont to know to work with it.


Seaspray
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 18, 2009, 05:27:22 pm
 I've used sheet and shaped styrene in many areas to great advantage and success over the years. Its easy to work with, can formed relatively easily and takes paint well after priming.
  To glue styrene to styrene I've used, for years (and I know there will be a lot of hollering here) MEK. Works fantastic and welds the pieces together. They never come apart, because they are welded together. Testors and Tamiya make a liquid styrene glue that works very well too. Does the same as MEK, but not as lethal.
  To fasten styrene to other materials: liquid styrene glue works well when attaching styrene to wood. The softened styrene absorbs into the wood and a good solid bond is made. Cyano can also be used for fastening styrene to other materials, however, roughen the styrene surface first for better adhesion.
  Don't forget people like Evergreen make styrene in a wide variety of shapes that is extremely helpful in model making. The also make sheets with different surface textures for, example, tongue and groove siding.
  As an example, I built the wheel house, below, using styrene sheet and strips. In the warf scene, the whare house and tanks were built from styrene

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 18, 2009, 05:35:37 pm
Quote
I will continue building in wood but some day I'll have to use  plasticard and I wont to know to work with it.

It's certainly difficult to avoid using plasticard and styrene sections these days but I far prefer working with traditional materials and always try to keep plastic to a minimum as it is unlikely to last in the long run. The very thin birch ply is a super material to work with. Don't feel pressured to work with plastic, it isn't essential as many top modellers will tell you. It is however undoubtedly quicker to work with in many situations. As in everything else, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Colin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: amdaylight on January 18, 2009, 05:38:49 pm
Greetings,

Depending on the thickness the best way to cut plastic is to scribe a line and then snap it over a sharp corner, it will break off just like glass. On the thinner plastic a rotary cutter like the one in the photo below works real well.

I use a thick ruler or square to guide the scribe or the cutter, the thicker the ruler the less chance of cutting one self.

For cutting windows out of the middle of a finished part, depending on how close the opening is to an edge I will sometimes cut them first and then the part of the sheet. For this I will build a jig so I can use my Dremel tool, I use the cutting set shown below to cut out the window and then use the corner chisel to clean the out the corners if I need them to be square.

For gluing I use "Tenax7R", this is a fast welding type of glue, for things that I want a little more time on I use Testors liquid glue, this may be the same as the Revell liquid but I have never tried the Revell product so I can' say for sure that it is the same.

I apply the Tenax with a glass pipette, or micro brushes.

I am sure you will have many more questions, so just ask away and I will try to answer them.

Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 18, 2009, 05:53:06 pm
Andre:

  Is that corner chisel a Dremel accessory too? Neat item to have in the toolbox.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 18, 2009, 05:55:58 pm
Quote
I will continue building in wood but some day I'll have to use  plasticard and I wont to know to work with it.

It's certainly difficult to avoid using plasticard and styrene sections these days but I far prefer working with traditional materials and always try to keep plastic to a minimum as it is unlikely to last in the long run. The very thin birch ply is a super material to work with. Don't feel pressured to work with plastic, it isn't essential as many top modellers will tell you. It is however undoubtedly quicker to work with in many situations. As in everything else, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Colin

  colin:

 I agree, it isn't essential to use plastic card, however, it sure does expand your range of materials to work with. Gives a great impression of a steel/metal finish when painted a lot easier than wood. Properly used, I feel plasticard is just as durable, in the long run, as wood.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: TCC on January 18, 2009, 06:19:54 pm
I agree with colin and amaday (didn't know you could get corner cutters for a dremel!) Another tip is to cut circles,or cut circular windows out, is with a compass with 2 points. The outer point scribes the circle and repeated scribing eventually cuts through or allows you to snap it out or take the cutting further.

One guy told me how to make big circles once: you place some sort of flat disc on a drill of some kind, place double-sided tape on the disc face and fix the styrene to that. Then start the drill and offer up a blade to it. I tried it the other day but I don't have a variable speed for this drill. Anyway, I got a circle off it, a bit rough but it gave me the start I needed. [I used a mini-craft drill and a buffing disc with the tape on the face of the wool buffer.]

I like to use styrene as it's an easy material to work with and there's no need to fill the grain before painting. I like plastic as it's very 'kitchen table' friendly in that it's easy to cut, drill and form.

But my talk of 'failures' may be a question of choosing the right materials for the job? But that doesn't take away from the fact that all my microstrip is now brittle when once you could bend it to a 'spring' form.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Bryan Young on January 18, 2009, 07:03:49 pm
Although I love working with Plasticard I will also agree with Colin. I use a compromise....I tend to use fairly thin card stuck to thinnish ply (double sided tape again). That way I get a good surface to paint on if needed and the strength of the ply to back it up. If the area to be covered (a bulkhead for example) has windows / ports or whatever I will cut them out of the ply before adding the plasticard...then cutting out the plastic is a doddle with a scalpel, finishing off with a smooth file. BY.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 18, 2009, 07:07:04 pm
There have been some other threads on here regarding the long term stability of styrene. I think that ultimately, being an artificial petrochemical material, it will break down of its own accord but that the stuff you buy today is more stable than when it first started to be used for modelmaking purposes 25 years or so ago. It is of course also susceptible to UV light so needs to be well protected. There is certainly no doubt that the various sections, angle, channel etc. are really useful and I do have a wide selection of these in my own workshop. For large areas I do prefer wood for the reasons already given and because it is far more thermally stable than styrene which can expand and contract alarmingly depending on the ambient temperature. I imagine this must result in "plastic fatigue" over a period.

Colin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 18, 2009, 07:12:33 pm
TFor large areas I do prefer wood for the reasons already given and because it is far more thermally stable than styrene which can expand and contract alarmingly depending on the ambient temperature. I imagine this must result in "plastic fatigue" over a period.

Colin

  Colin:

 I certainly agree on the thermally stable point. Leave a plastic anything on the inside of a car on a warm sunny day, with the windows rolled up, and you'll have a puddle on your hands.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: tigertiger on January 19, 2009, 01:55:34 am
I bought a couple of DVDs from Traplet.

Marine Modelling Workshop - Craftsmanship in wood and metal, part #DV508.
Marine Modelling Workshop - Craftsmanship in Plastic and Moden Materials   #DV509
you can save money if you get the twin pack.

The Craftsmanship in wood and metal DVD was disapointing.

The Craftsmanship in Plastic and Moden Materials was much better.
There is a very long segment on working with styreme. A great tutorial by Richard Webb. This covers cutting sheet, cutting holes, gluing, painting an much more. He also describes properties of the material, and how to get the best out of it.
Richard Webb gives a lot of explanation of what he is doing and why.
I had never considered working with plastic, but after watching the DVD I can see how simple it can be.

I would personally recommend  Craftsmanship in Plastic and Moden Materials to anybody who is new to plasticard.

Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 19, 2009, 08:34:04 am
Cheers lads for the replies.  :-))  :-))  :-))

Do feel at liberty to put  more of your experiences on this thread it would be most appreciated. Don't forget some pictures would be nice to see of your work.

I'll have a read at R.W. book and get the DVD.

First question. Is there a way to protect plasticard from becoming brittle, like a wash or coat of some liquid before painting?
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: 6705russell on January 19, 2009, 10:07:15 am
This thread reminds me of a thread i started a while ago about my models being outside in the garage, at this time of year it is freezing in there and always wondered if it would  have an effect on the styrene? Will it go brittle over time etc ?

Russ
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: tigertiger on January 19, 2009, 10:11:52 am
Hi Russel.

Did it?

I do know that UV kills lots of things. But not so much of a problem temperature variation.

But you may get cracking joints due to excessive temperature change as a result fo expansion and /or contraction.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: barriew on January 19, 2009, 10:17:25 am
First question. Is there a way to protect plasticard from becoming brittle, like a wash or coat of some liquid before painting?

As far as I know, just painting the external surfaces will help delay the effects of the UV. Obviously keeping them out of direct sunlight, or even away from windows, when not in use will help reduce exposure.

Barrie
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Proteus on January 19, 2009, 10:40:13 am
A hint on working with plasticard , . I use a small block plane to straighten the edges, it works great and you can get very nice straight square edges to glue .
it does not damage the blockplane at all but it will need sharpening. it also needs to be sharpish before you start. I have found it does not blunt it much more than working with some hardwoods, and a quick rub on the oil stone and it is ready for wood again.

Proteus
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: TCC on January 19, 2009, 10:51:03 am
First question. Is there a way to protect plasticard from becoming brittle, like a wash or coat of some liquid before painting?

As far as I know, just painting the external surfaces will help delay the effects of the UV. Obviously keeping them out of direct sunlight, or even away from windows, when not in use will help reduce exposure.

Barrie

I was just going to say the same... it's UV or polution that damages it as I have un-used micro-stip still in their strip-packet and that is not so brittle but it has still deterioraited though. I made both inclined and upright ladders with it and used it for banding on funnels. All had a coat of paint. I used to be able to push the uprights of the ladders and make the spaces between the rungs trapeziod shaped. If I tried that now, I'd have a handful of small grey microstip inm my hand. I used it back then as they could take a knock...

But I'll sum 'my experience' up with saying 'the thicker it is, and the bigger the glueable area, the longer lasting... '. So let's keep it in perspective, a lo of my build is fine... no issues.

The stuff I detailed funnels with looked as fine as the day I fixed it, it's just that I had to remove this strip and THAT'S how I found that that had also gone brittle. And if you're glueing the strip against a wall as detail, you'll not likely knock it nor need to remove it, thus it will be fine. It's if you make railings or ladders with it, and then actually use them model  you may face issues. Static modellors who display behind glass 24/7/365 will have no issues, really.


I have no great experience with 'Plastruct' channels, angles, 'I' beams or the like, the microstrip I'm refering to comes in packets of 0.020" x 0.010" or 0.015" x 0.015" sizes. It's that type of size.

And if UV attacts it, could airbourne gasses do likewise? (like they do against inkjet dye inks)
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 19, 2009, 11:09:56 am
I'm afraid I haven't experienced the brittleness people are referring to. I've got boats that are over 15 years old and use plasticard extensively and they are as strong now as when I built them. I' have plastic models (Revell, Aurora etc) I built as a young teenager. They are older than dirt now, but can still be handled with no problem or fear of crumbling.
  I think the key is ultraviolet. That seems to break down any plastic over time. You're not going to have problems on your runs days, but if you displayed/stored your model in an area of direct sunlight constantly  over several years you're going to be looking for a problem.
  I think its all things in prespective.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Circlip on January 19, 2009, 01:42:42 pm
Although the posting is material specific ie. "Plasticard", users should be aware that "Generic" terms can be missleading. Not all vacs are "Hoovers" so ABS solvents wont glue pvc's sucessfully. It's very much horses for courses so you should make sure that the adhesive you're using is suitable for what yer sticking together. Ask Five Star how many types of cyano there are, one size doesn't fit all.
   Regards   Ian.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: amdaylight on January 19, 2009, 02:01:36 pm
Andre:

  Is that corner chisel a Dremel accessory too? Neat item to have in the toolbox.

John

John,

No it is not, I got it from "Woodcraft" ( http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=143717&FamilyID=4433 ), a store that caters to the home wood worker. It is designed to trim the corner of a depression that was routed out for a hinge or a lock set on a door and door jamb.

Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 19, 2009, 02:08:18 pm
Andre:

  Is that corner chisel a Dremel accessory too? Neat item to have in the toolbox.

John

John,

No it is not, I got it from "Woodcraft" ( http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=143717&FamilyID=4433 ), a store that caters to the home wood worker. It is designed to trim the corner of a depression that was routed out for a hinge or a lock set on a door and door jamb.

Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon


 Thanks Andre. Appreciated.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: barriew on January 19, 2009, 05:26:32 pm
For anyone in the UK the corner chisel is available here, amongst other places.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21407&src=froogle

Barrie
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Big Ada on January 19, 2009, 05:53:47 pm
Regarding the life of Styrene ( sounds like an old Radio programme ) you need to get things into perspective, how old are you and how much longer do you expect to be making and sailing model boats, in most cases Styrene will outlast you,makes you think doesn't it.

Len, nearly an old Fart.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 19, 2009, 06:22:39 pm
Very true Len. But in this month's Marine Modelling the editor points out that when the present generation go to the Great Workshop in the Sky, nobody will know how to build model boats anymore. Only our work will be left behind and if it disintegrates after 30 years there'll be nothing to remember us by. Not like the guys who made this:
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 19, 2009, 07:08:05 pm
Very true Len. But in this month's Marine Modelling the editor points out that when the present generation go to the Great Workshop in the Sky, nobody will know how to build model boats anymore. Only our work will be left behind and if it disintegrates after 30 years there'll be nothing to remember us by. Not like the guys who made this:

  Quite right Colin, however, thats true of many things in our society. My pet peeve has been photographs. Not many digital photos taken today are going to survive for the next century. On the other hand we can still make prints from the first negatives taken. All this technology change is not necessarily a good thing.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 19, 2009, 07:09:32 pm
Just got through on a "quote" response, but can't get back in on a "reply".

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 09:11:08 pm
A question on storage,

I found a supplier in Oz that I can and have purchased large sheets of HIP (high Impact Styrene) very cheaply, I have several sheets of each size 0.5mm, 1.0mm, 1.5mm and 2.0mm
 Currently I have these sheets in my other shed vertically, against a wall between various sizes of marine ply. It's summer here and the temp can and has risen above 40 degrees C inside the shed. Although not in direct sunlight, will the heat in the shed effect the styrene sheet??

Also in my other shed where I work on my models, I have placed hooks beneath a shelf and attached the Evergreen strips to the wall in their various packets. I did this for ease in finding what I need. This shed also reaches high temps in extreme weather but due to location, can be a bit on the dark side. Is this a possible future problem? Can I leave them hanging or should I place all the packets in a steel cupboard..

Martin down under
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 22, 2009, 09:24:04 pm
Martin, who in Australia did you buy your styrene from? What's the price like, and how much freight - or did you pick it up yourself?

Peter.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 09:48:17 pm
Martin, who in Australia did you buy your styrene from? What's the price like, and how much freight - or did you pick it up yourself?

Peter.

G'Day Peter,

I will find the receipt and pm you the details. The company specialize in HIP. It's like walking into a supermarket of Plastic sheets. It's in the SE suburbs of Melbourne and takes me about 2 hours to get their. Thank god my car runs on gas. There sheet sizes range from about 900mm x 1350mm up to 1800mm x 3600mm. I have purchased the small sheets and some at 1200mm x 2400mm and surprised by how cheap they are. The Hobby shops are making a real killing if they buy their sheets from this company. I do believe they freight there product interstate.

Imagine how many stuff ups I can make and it will barely be a few dollars, if that. %)

Martin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: DickyD on January 22, 2009, 10:13:22 pm
Store the sheeting flat Martin. :-))
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 22, 2009, 11:20:25 pm
Store the sheeting flat Martin. :-))

So I should lay the sheets down and not vertical.... Hmmm, will have to find a new location out of the way.

I know..... make a shelf under one of the eight benches - that should do the trick :-))
Thanks Richard.

Martin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Peter Fitness on January 23, 2009, 12:10:23 am
eight benches

 :o :o :o :o

Peter
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 23, 2009, 06:50:10 am
posting is weird today...
 {:-{


I bought a 4' x 8' sheet of 0.030 thick styrene
for a project. I cut the sheet in half length wise,
and rolled and stored that half. There is no way that curl
 is coming out.

I used styrene on the ferry because I didn't want to have to
seal and sand the sides of the ship.
It seemed like it would be hard to support while sanding.

On the fireboat, and the springer , I didn't want to battle
battle with the grain of the wood being weak when crosscut
at the narrow window frames. Having to seal and sand the
facets had a little to do with the choice of styrene in these instances.
I still fill and sand at all the joints.





 :-)
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 23, 2009, 07:24:46 am
Also, for the scale, I wanted to minimize the thickness
of the materials.

The fire boat  and springer pilot houses.

Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 24, 2009, 10:25:42 am
Greetings,

Depending on the thickness the best way to cut plastic is to scribe a line and then snap it over a sharp corner, it will break off just like glass. On the thinner plastic a rotary cutter like the one in the photo below works real well.

I use a thick ruler or square to guide the scribe or the cutter, the thicker the ruler the less chance of cutting one self.

I am sure you will have many more questions, so just ask away and I will try to answer them.

Andre
over yonder in Portland Oregon

Andre,

Up to what thickness Plasticard have you been able to cut with the Rotary cutter. Swmbo has offered a lend of hers using a spare blade. Also, which diameter blade did you use, 12mm, 28mm or 40mm .

Martin down under
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 24, 2009, 10:41:15 am
When using Styrene, if your joint is not perfect, can P38 be used to fill any gaps or is their another product available.

Also, I need to make some ammo lockers and will be building from balsa block then sticking styrene over the top. Which adhesive is best in this case.

Martin down under
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Proteus on January 24, 2009, 10:46:44 am
Hi Umi, the plasticard work looks great, and I think I may have seen the later pictures on another site illuminated , if so have you got any pictures of the underside as the small lights are so crisp without any of the light bleeding out, also what is the modeling knife you have with the rubber grip it looks like it may help me be able to hold a knife better, have you a name /make for it

thanks again and very nice as usual

Proteus
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: barriew on January 24, 2009, 10:58:56 am
When using Styrene, if your joint is not perfect, can P38 be used to fill any gaps or is their another product available.
Martin down under

Martin, you can use P38, but I prefer to use Squadron White Putty (they also do a green one). This is finer than P38, and being white easier to paint over particularly on white superstructure :-))

Barrie
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 24, 2009, 11:15:00 am
When using Styrene, if your joint is not perfect, can P38 be used to fill any gaps or is their another product available.
Martin down under

Martin, you can use P38, but I prefer to use Squadron White Putty (they also do a green one). This is finer than P38, and being white easier to paint over particularly on white superstructure :-))

Barrie

Barrie,

Is that a fairly common product? Do you think I can find it in a hobby shop in OZ. Maybe buy it online from the UK - Which hobby shop do you think I can order it from.

Martin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Rex Hunt on January 24, 2009, 11:36:18 am
Can anyone advise me as to the best way to produce a truncated cone using plastic card?

Trying to make the foremast for HMS Hermes so far without success!

Rex
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: DickyD on January 24, 2009, 11:39:21 am
Styrene to balsa Martin, you need superglue.

You can use P38 filler or over here we have Humbrol filler or 2 part Lilliput filler which is like a putty and comes in white or brown.  :-))
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 24, 2009, 12:21:36 pm
Styrene to balsa Martin, you need superglue.

You can use P38 filler or over here we have Humbrol filler or 2 part Lilliput filler which is like a putty and comes in white or brown.  :-))

G'Day Richard,

Doesn't that Lilliput 2 part filler sets like concrete. 2 sticks, peel equal quantities of each, squash together till one consistant colour and apply - or am I thinking of something else {:-{

Martin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 24, 2009, 01:01:59 pm
I had Milliput go that way years ago and haven't used it since. A two stick mix to. I used P38 now but try and get a very flexi filler if there is one about . Possible Plastic Padding.

I noticed that White Ensign Models, Ludlow have putty on their site.

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Colin Bishop on January 24, 2009, 01:20:16 pm
Plastic Padding also do a gelcoat filler for full size boats. Similar to the standard product but white. Available at marine chandlers.

Colin
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: barriew on January 24, 2009, 05:56:39 pm
When using Styrene, if your joint is not perfect, can P38 be used to fill any gaps or is their another product available.
Martin down under

Martin, you can use P38, but I prefer to use Squadron White Putty (they also do a green one). This is finer than P38, and being white easier to paint over particularly on white superstructure :-))

Barrie

Barrie,

Is that a fairly common product? Do you think I can find it in a hobby shop in OZ. Maybe buy it online from the UK - Which hobby shop do you think I can order it from.

Martin

I got my last tube from Cornwall Model Boats, but its an American product I believe, used by the model aircraft brigade, so I would think the chances of finding it in Oz are quite good. Failing that I can offer a personal delivery service - I will be in Oz in just over 2 weeks {-)


Barrie
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: DickyD on January 24, 2009, 06:00:03 pm
Styrene to balsa Martin, you need superglue.

You can use P38 filler or over here we have Humbrol filler or 2 part Lilliput filler which is like a putty and comes in white or brown.  :-))

G'Day Richard,

Doesn't that Lilliput 2 part filler sets like concrete. 2 sticks, peel equal quantities of each, squash together till one consistant colour and apply - or am I thinking of something else {:-{

Martin
Thats the stuff, use it all the time Martin.

Also sticks to most things.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 24, 2009, 06:14:37 pm
  If I'm fastening, gluing, styrene to balsa, or any wood, I've found water based contact cement works excellent. Acts like regular contact cement, but doesn't warp plastic and stays under any circumstance. Cyano works well for small areas, if the styrene is roughened first. However, contact cement works perfect for larger areas.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: boatmadman on January 24, 2009, 06:15:40 pm
Can anyone advise me as to the best way to produce a truncated cone using plastic card?

Trying to make the foremast for HMS Hermes so far without success!

Rex

Rex,

Scribe a circle onto the card so that the circumference is larger than that required for the base of the cone. calculate the circumference of the base of the cone and mark that length onto the circumference of the circle drawn first. This will be less than the whole circumference. Next, draw a line from each end of the shorter arc to the centre of the circle, mark the length required for the cone height on this line, then scribe another circle, using the origional centre so that this circle passes through the marks on the line, cut out, roll edges together and I think you should have what you want.
No doubt there is an easier way, but thats how I do it!
Good luck
Ian
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 24, 2009, 06:15:50 pm
pics of a deck done with contact cement:
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: John W E on January 24, 2009, 07:26:05 pm
hi there

just for interest  - all the hull plating which I put on the Frederique Spashett was put on using Superglue or Cyano as some call it.  I did try a product called Deep Bond - but it wasnt very successful - the plates peeled off.   Deep Bond is a form of a contact adhesive - even though I had roughed the surface of the hull and also the plates to be secured, when the bond had cured after 24 hours, the plates easily peeled off.

I found though with Superglue (if you made any mistakes positioning the plates and the glue had gone off) it destroyed the plate whilst trying to remove it to correct it.

aye
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 24, 2009, 07:48:11 pm

Martin, you can use P38, but I prefer to use Squadron White Putty (they also do a green one). This is finer than P38, and being white easier to paint over particularly on white superstructure :-))

Barrie

Martin

I got my last tube from Cornwall Model Boats, but its an American product I believe, used by the model aircraft brigade, so I would think the chances of finding it in Oz are quite good. Failing that I can offer a personal delivery service - I will be in Oz in just over 2 weeks {-)


Barrie

Barrie. Where in Oz will you be visiting.

Martin du
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 24, 2009, 09:23:55 pm
Styrene to balsa Martin, you need superglue.

You can use P38 filler or over here we have Humbrol filler or 2 part Lilliput filler which is like a putty and comes in white or brown.  :-))

Dicky,

May have mislead you on that Lilliput. The stuff I used with the two sticks was MILLIPUT. I used it on Brave Borderer Mk 1 and set so hard that I had a lot of problems sanding or even filing the filler. I will not use it anymore - too hard to work with.

Is the Lilliput filler different or the same as Milliput??

Also, some time ago I purchased some Stabilit Express but have not used it so far. Does this stuff set hard like the Milliput??

Martin du
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: DickyD on January 24, 2009, 09:32:53 pm
Sorry Martin, spelling mistake, should have read Milliput. Senility setting in.

Stabilit Express does set hard and also costs to much.

Humbrol filler is OK for plstics but takes a while to harden.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Shipmate60 on January 24, 2009, 11:36:17 pm
Dicky,
Milliput is 2 pack epoxy so can be harder than the plasticard.

Bob
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 25, 2009, 12:49:21 am
Hi Umi, the plasticard work looks great, and I think I may have seen the later pictures on another site illuminated , if so have you got any pictures of the underside as the small lights are so crisp without any of the light bleeding out, also what is the modeling knife you have with the rubber grip it looks like it may help me be able to hold a knife better, have you a name /make for it

thanks again and very nice as usual

Proteus

The original consoles were built up first in styrene on a renshape(polyurethane)  block.
The consoles were then molded and cast. The lighted pieces are solid clear polyurethane castings.

The modeling knife is from Xacto, #X3723?

.
.
.

For modeling cones, use this calculator...

http://www.realmcommunications.com/rblaske/shroudcalc/shroudcalc.htm
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Proteus on January 25, 2009, 01:16:48 am
thank you for that.

Proteus
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 25, 2009, 02:12:33 am
Heres a picture of all three stages...
and the 17" LED monitor... Which are also  originally
made out of styrene or the brown renshape.

 :-)
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Proteus on January 25, 2009, 02:22:46 am
very nice, the screens are magic , any chance of a bit more info on how you did the screens they are great.. I have orderd the knife on ebay from the USA,

Proteus
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Martin13 on January 25, 2009, 02:33:09 am
Heres a picture of all three stages...
and the 17" LED monitor... Which are also  originally
made out of styrene or the brown renshape.

 :-)

Now I know what I'm going to ask Santa  next Christmas - to be able to model like Umi - that's brilliant workmanship :-)) :-))

Martin down under
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 25, 2009, 10:19:43 am
Hi Umi    :-))

I've had an Xacto knife years ago. Found that the end (screws up holding the blade) which secured the blade kept undoing as you worked and used pliers to really tighten it up, also found it uncomfortable to use. I see you have something over the end on your knife.
Each to there own.

Seaspray
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: TCC on January 25, 2009, 10:36:53 am
Styrene to balsa Martin, you need superglue.

You can use P38 filler or over here we have Humbrol filler or 2 part Lilliput filler which is like a putty and comes in white or brown.  :-))

Does that come in small tubes? :-)
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: TCC on January 25, 2009, 11:02:15 am
Heres a picture of all three stages...
and the 17" LED monitor... Which are also  originally
made out of styrene or the brown renshape.

 :-)

Umi can I ask?

I think I know what you've done. You've made your finished items in translucent resin in which you place a white LED, right? Well how did you light the thin LCD?

If it's an LED (which I think it is) is that moulded in while the resin is wet or do you drill a hole in the final piece and have it replacable?

Another thing is that 17 LCD doesn't look thick enough to take a 3mm LED.

I'm just curious what you've done.

Another question that springs to mind is how you stopped light 'bleed' through the painted walls? Is it just many copats of paint?

Cheers mate, loved the workmanship.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Umi_Ryuzuki on January 25, 2009, 06:41:52 pm
Thanks all,

RE, the LED monitors.

The LED is cast into the piece while the resin is still  liquid.
Silly me, I sand the sides of the LED down to make a thin profile.
I am trying to find a source for square LED, that are only 1.2mm thick.

The most difficult part of producing the monitors is getting the air bubbles out.
I would guess I am only having a 60 percent success rate at making these.

Stopping bleed through was two coats of white paint, and two coats of black plus
some touch up at the corners. Colored buttons were created by adding a dash of
translucent paint to the surface after the glowing area was scrapped clean.
I picked up some "airbrush" media  to try to reduce the paint build up.
I felt that this first set of panels got a bit muddied.

Here is a 1/48 scale z drive control panel built up in styrene.
I hope to cast these clear, and then people can build up their
own cabinet out of wood or styrene and place the Lamp or LED
inside. The back side is set so that the panel can be left squared, or
the corner can be cut off to fit a Damen style pilot house.

Most of the cementing on the styrene was done with thin CA or
some version of MEK

Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: oldiron on January 26, 2009, 09:19:38 pm
Adding to the list of fillers that are available to the modeler I offer up the "Body Icing". Its used by automotive body shops to smooth over an auto body before final priming and painting. The material goes on extremely smoothly and sands equally well. It is excellent for hulls and wood finished surfaces, but works equally well on plasticard, and fiberglass and , of course, metal surfaces.
  Its a two part material. That is to say you have to mix a small amount of hardener with the Icing to make it go off. The result is durable and very paintable. Although Squadron Green and other similar body putties are good, this stuff comes in BIG volumes, so is much better and more cost effective for larger surfaces.

John
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: TCC on January 27, 2009, 01:26:04 pm

I sand the sides of the LED down to make a thin profile.

I was going to suggest that to you, looks like you're ahead of me on that one.  :-)

Thanks for getting back to me.
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Seaspray on January 27, 2009, 05:15:20 pm
Just finished reading Richard Webb's book for the second time.

Very interesting, informative and will have a go at some small projects for practice in working with plasticard.

Having jogged my memory, back in 1980 I used plasticard to make a shape of a light bulb and remember it was awful brittle plastic to work with. It was heated in the oven and I used the hoover to suck all the air out of the mould to give me the shape. It worked but haven't touched it since then because of the brittleness. Looking at the new plasticard I've got now. I think it has changed  to be more better to work with

Seaspray
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: nemesis on October 17, 2009, 12:35:02 pm
Hi, I was once told by an experienced modeller that styrene / plasticard had a life of about 20 years,
he was also a chemist (industrial). I also know of models that are older than that, I think the secret is to paint the inside as well, to cover the joints to stop the air getting in, oxygen is a distroyer along
with UV. How many glass cased models have bits dropping off for no apparent reason?
                                               Nemesis
Title: Re: Working with Plasticard
Post by: Bryan Young on October 20, 2009, 08:07:37 pm
If you are still not convinced about the effectiveness of double-sided tapethen may I suggest you buy a (good quality) roll and clag a bit of plasticard of any thickness to it, wait a couple of minutes and then try to seperate the 2 bits. You will be a bit surprised. BY.