Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: John W E on January 25, 2009, 06:46:42 pm
-
Hi there All
Here are few pics of my current build from Jecobin plans - HMS York :-))
This is plank on frame build; using Sirmar (PSships fittings) first couple of pics show the set up of the frames on the building board; also, the planking.
aye
john
-
..... couple of shots of the planking in progress too
you will notice I use a section of 1/16 ply where the rear deck cut-outs are; underneath the helicopter platform deck
aye
john e
bluebird
-
and some shots showing - when I sanded down the fibre glass tissue matt on the exterior of the hull - I then sprayed the hull with a grey primer (well my son, Andrew did).
I then rubbed the hull back using wet 'n dry and a sanding block; and this revealed, as you can see, 'low parts' in the resin which I had to fill with P38 car body filler.
Once these were then sanded smooth the hull was then resprayed with Plasticoat primer and also a shot of internal of the hull - this shows where I have sealed the inside with fibre glass resin - :-))
-
Looking really good John, its surprising what you can achieve between tea breaks. ok2
-
... these shots show the installation the running gear - the running gear was self-made from brass tubing and brass bushes with stainless steel prop shafts. You can also see the jig which I made for holding and soldering the legs on the 'a' frames.
The next shot you will see the rudder installation; with what we call a closed circuit - using 2 push rods.
Finally, a pic of the motor/motor mounts - this is for Martin 13. (Doon Under) :-)) Some idea here to mount your motors in your King George battleship.
Just as a side note; when I built HMS Norfolk; I had the same problem as Martin 13 has encountered, motors very close to the hull, so, I literally hung the motors 'off a platform' so that the motors were actually mounted upside down.
aye
-
Who's plans are you using John?
-
John,
How does the weight of your hull compare to a GRP hull?
Bob
-
and.... next set of pics cutting holes in the hull which I have just spent ages sealing :o the first shots are of the anchor recess - this is where I have had to cut right through the hull into the first frame and then back it off with a 1/16 piece of plywood. I then edged it and on the inside I sealed it all with Epoxy resin and also P38 car body filler.
You can see pics of openings being cut underneath the flight deck; if you note I leave the frames in place until I have cut and sanded all of the openings. This makes sure there is enough strength in the stern; and once the openings are all finished I then cut and remove the frames.
aye
john
-
Hi Martin - Jecobin plans. ;) ;)
Bob, I didnt weigh the hull when I took her from the building board; but, I know she is extremely lightweight. :-))
aye
john
-
Hi ya, just weighed the hull now on the bathroom scales - she is 5 lb - and that is with 2 motors/ all the running gear plus the servo and that.
:-)) :-)) :-))
-
That has to be lighter than a GRP hull then.
She looks strong too.
Bob
-
couple of pics here of actual fitting of the aft deck and alsothe bulkheads
you can see I am beginning to fit some of the fittings - once the helicopter deck is fitted - it would be a major operation to get back to this deck.
the other thing to note which has been brought to my attention by Bob - shipmates 60 - 3 bladed props - these are only a temporary measure as they were put on while I was running in the motors and shafts. Dicky note me bucket on the floor :D :D :D that is for all me mistakes and tea bags for me extended tea breaks.
aye
-
looks fantastic, and everythings been done so neatly, i wish my skills were half as good as yours
-
thank you for the kind comments my mate, but, remember everyone is as good as everyone else - we all got different levels of time we can spend at the hobby :-)) :-))
-
Great to see the traditional building method John. GRP has its place but you just can't beat the satisfaction of building a hull in wood. (if only because of the smell...) What I would call an "Organic" model!
Colin
-
Finally, a pic of the motor/motor mounts - this is for Martin 13. (Doon Under) :-)) Some idea here to mount your motors in your King George battleship.
Just as a side note; when I built HMS Norfolk; I had the same problem as Martin 13 has encountered, motors very close to the hull, so, I literally hung the motors 'off a platform' so that the motors were actually mounted upside down.
aye
Mr Bluebird Sir,
What do you mean by "mounting motors upside down".
Do you think that mounting motors as you have will work on HMS Vanguard.
Did you have any problems in aligning motors as per this method.
Are the motor mounts epoxied to the hull.
I'll think of another question in a minute re motors and mounts..
Martin13 doon under
-
Martin,
I have done this on more than one occasion. If there is insufficient room to attach the motors to the bottom of the hull and line them up properly then you can attach them to a plate which is fixed across the hull higher up with the motors suspended from it. This enables you to lower the motor shaft to line up with the propeller shaft. I have found this method particularly useful if you want to gear down the motors via a belt drive. A variation is shown below although in this case the motors were mounted on top of the plate. There are lots of ways to transfer motor power to the shafts if you use a bit of imagination!
Colin
-
I would have liked to have seen you planking the bow :-))
Love it so far
-
John, that looks great. I'm really pleased to see a "proper hull" being made. Can't beat it.
ANDY
-
Colin,
Thanks for explanation. I think the very hot sun down here is the cause of brain malfunction/meltown. I especially like your setup - very clever
Martin doon under
-
hi ya Martin Doon under
Mr Bishop has kindly answered part of your question about the motor being hung upside down :-)) :-)) :-)
To answer the other part of your question; about the motor mountings in the Type 42 - the main base plate is made from quarter inch ply and that is shaped to fit the bottom of the hull/then epoxied into the bottom of the hull; it is then levelled off (before the epoxy dries) with the use of a spirit level, ensuring the hull is level beforehand. When these baseplates have dried, the motor mounting brackets are assembled from 1/8 ply. These are then superglued on top of the mounting plate.
In theory, and I do say in theory :embarrassed: if we need to alter the position of the motor mounting plates, but not the bed plates, they should break free from the bed plates with a certain amount of force, leaving the bedplate and the hull in tact.
Madrob – to answer your question – isn’t it sod’s law, I haven’t been taking that may pictures of the build; as I didn’t think another grey build would interest people on this Forum. However, if you have a look at the Cervia build, the planking of the bow for the York follows much the same principle as the planking on the Cervia where I used tapered stealer planks to fill the triangular gaps at the bow. The planking process started off at the keel, with 0.4mm wide x 1.8 thick strips of Obechi. The reason for the thin and narrow pieces of planking first off is – at the stern of the vessel where the keel is – there are some tight radius’ there and I wanted to plank into the small tight radiuses. So this is how I accomplished that.
After I had laid 4 planks of the narrow planking, I increased to 6mm wide planks – up until the turn of the bilge. I then began at deck level, inserting the 2 pieces of 1/16 ply at the stern; which I used as, as you can see, the stern is partly open and visible and using the plywood gives a neat and clean finish inside, as well as outside, without too much work. Then from deck level, I planked up with 10 mm wide Obechi planks; until the side planks began mating in with the 6mm planks.
That is basically how I planked this hull.
And does this mean I have to begin to take more photographs then? :-)) ok2 :-)
aye
john e
bluebird
-
Fantastic job so far! :-))
I presume it's 1:72 scale?
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as I have a hull 1:72. Sadly I don't live near a calm water to sale her and my cars a little small to transport her.
I did think of getting rid of her, but if I can come up with a way of halving the hull for transport. I might just build her one day. A member of my old model club done this very effectively. You could not even see the join when the ship was 5-8 feet out in the water. Unfortunately he's passed on now and I'm struggling to get productive information on how to do this.
Anyway keep up the good work.
Watching with interest. ;)
Mark
-
John do you think its cheaper to build the hull yourself or to buy a GRP one?
A question i have asked myself a few times. Just wandered what your thoughts were on it......
Looks brill though. Its making me want to go and work on mine but its too cold :((
-
Fantastic job so far! :-))
I presume it's 1:72 scale?
John will confirm this - or make me look daft (again) - but I think it's the 1/96 version. Two Speed 500s wouldn't make much of an impression on a 1/72 scale destroyer.
FLJ
-
Fantastic job so far! :-))
I presume it's 1:72 scale?
John will confirm this - or make me look daft (again) - but I think it's the 1/96 version. Two Speed 500s wouldn't make much of an impression on a 1/72 scale destroyer.
FLJ
Thats what I thought FLJ. So thought I better ask.
On a 1:96 I would always buy the hull, but I'm lazy and honest about it. {-) Bigger scales I would put the effort in to the hull. Not trying to take anything away from a fine build made all the better if it is 1:96.
Mark
-
thanks bluebird
ill certainly be keeping a eye on this build.
Just spent a good hour reading the cervia build...simply stunning :-))
-
John do you think its cheaper to build the hull yourself or to buy a GRP one?
A question i have asked myself a few times. Just wandered what your thoughts were on it......
Gary,
I live in Oz and purchased a couple of GRP hulls from the UK, I also purchased a GRP hull from another part of Oz (interstate). On both occasions regardless of scale, the shipping/freight charges outweighed the original cost.
I am currently building an MTB at 1:16 scale and a GRP hull cannot be purchased at this scale BUT, I have double diagonal planked the hull on ply formers as per Bluebirds many builds and have had the greatest pleasure in doing so. TRY IT :-))
Their is nothing sweeter than building you own "all timber" hull, or as Colin puts it "An Organic Hull"
But as we say down here in Oz "Its Horses for Courses"
Martin doon under - and planning more timber hulls - it's cheaper
-
Martin,
I have have bought 1 GRP hull and built 1 wooden hull and im currently building another. The reason i asked is because i was so surprised at how much all the wood can cost on building a hull. It actually amounted to being more than a GRP. All the same though i do really enjoy building the hulls. Its hugely satisfying. Your MTB looks really good Martin. Ive been watching the build.
One day i'd love to get to the same level of workmanship as bluebird. I have spent many hours refering to your builds to aid me in my building and this is yet another one i will be studying for hours! I am actually tempted to try a grey ship for my next build! (that could be a long way off!!!)
-
Hi there all
Answer a few questions first :-))
go to the top of the class FLJ - it's 1:96 scale; :-)) and at this scale she is a nice manageable size - 58 inches in length - I did consider building it in 1:72 scale, but, it would just about fit the workbench and make it awkward to work on my excuse anyway
Gary - you have opened a can of worms here my friend :} is it cheaper to build a wooden hull or purchase one? Well, I suppose really it depends on the size of the hull/materials you use. Having said that, what I tend to do is, when I am ordering the likes of wood for planking - say I require 100 pieces for the hull I am making - I order 150 so that I have 50 spare which sit in a tube for a future build and of course - these accumulate - same with when I order plywood - I only need one sheet but order 2 %% it may sound like false economy because in theory I am paying for 2 hulls or 1 1/2 the other thing is, what you don’t get with a 'purchased' hull but you do get with a homemade one is you actually scraps leftovers and bits and pieces and if you are like me and save all of these bits and pieces in a box; you can actually build a hull for next to nothing from the scrap bits. (Like the one in the picture here).
When you weigh up all the costs I suppose you do pay for plans/materials/etc., I should imagine it would in some cases work out the same as buying a hull – because if you buy the hull you still have to purchase the plan/materials to build the superstructure and so forth.
To get back to the build, I have been progressing putting the bilge keels and also the stabilizers; the bilge keels are made from 1.5mm Plasticard and they are secured onto the hull with 1:32 brass pins which are drilled into the contact edge of the bilge keel – and this is epoxied to the hull. You will also see, I have fitted the sonar dome, which is made from balsa block - this was given 2 coats of sand n sealer plus 2 coats of finishing epoxy. You can see a pic of the stabilizer blades I am making and this is a sandwich it is 1mm ply with 1/16 Plasticard glued to either side with superglue and I am shaping this with a sanding clock and wet ‘n dry.
aye
john
-
Martin,
I have have bought 1 GRP hull and built 1 wooden hull and I'm currently building another. The reason i asked is because i was so surprised at how much all the wood can cost on building a hull. It actually amounted to being more than a GRP. All the same though i do really enjoy building the hulls. Its hugely satisfying. Your MTB looks really good Martin. Ive been watching the build.
One day I'd love to get to the same level of workmanship as bluebird. I have spent many hours referring to your builds to aid me in my building and this is yet another one i will be studying for hours! I am actually tempted to try a grey ship for my next build! (that could be a long way off!!!)
G'Day Gary,
I don't wish to Hijack Bluebird's build so if its okay, I will send a pm - love to chat.
John, is it okay to use Plasticard for Stabilisers? I was going to use 3mm ply sanded down at the edge instead - thought it may be stronger plus my bin of ply scraps is larger than yours ;D O0 O0
Can you please explain "Finishing Epoxy" - I inadvertently purchased this some time ago but can't remember why - can this stuff be brushed on and what is the purpose of using it. {:-{
Martin doon under
-
Type 42 build
Installation of the main drive electrics
For the time being I have concentrated not on the build of the model but on the installation of the electrics for driving the model – the speed controller and so forth and I have also fitted the radio receiver. Now, for this particular model I have purchased the ACTion P94 dual ESC (electronic speed controller) mixer unit. To be honest I have been itching for a while now to get me hands on one of these. Its okay reading – oh aye they are great, they are the bees knees and they are fantastic, but, how good are they? Do they do the job?
Really, to gauge something we need a reference – one of the same kind or of a similar kind – and at this time there isn’t a ‘similar’ unit – i.e. 2 speed controllers and a mixer all on one board in one little case – well if there is I haven’t seen it yet %) .
So what are the alternatives? There are mixers on the market; of various makes; speed controllers on the market again of various makes. If your pockets are deep enough, there are computerised transmitters on the market with the mixer programme built in. This is what is on the market at the present time.
For those who are unfamiliar with mixers and wondering what they are all about; to give you a little insight their purpose is to aid the maneuverability of a ‘twin screw’ propelled vessel. These allow you to mimic the actual functions of a life sized vessel by as you turn to say port – as the rudder moves over to the port side the starboard propeller speeds up and the port propeller slows down. As the rudder moves further over towards the port, the starboard motor increases its speed and the port propeller decreases its speed until it comes to a standstill and then if you want it goes into reverse.
This tightens the turn of the vessel; it gives you the opportunity to actual spin/turn the vessel in its own length – once you have mastered the techniques – so, that is a rough idea of what a mixer does.
Now, how does this little unit stand up – well, if we look at first of all the 2 separate speed controllers and the mixer set up – the first thing that will become apparent to you is that you require the space for the 2 speed controllers and mixer and in some hulls, such as destroyers and liners which are sometimes long and narrow, this space isn’t always available. Don’t forget with a long narrow hull the majority of the time you must keep the centre of gravity or your weight as low as possible in the hull. So, there is one bonus point straight away for this small gadget, bearing in mind the mixer unit is only 74mm long x 50mm wide and 28mm high.
If you get the 20 amp version you must add another 30mm on the height, but, this is just for 2 cooling fins – which stick out of the top of the casing. If these fins were any problem, no doubt these could be bent carefully at right angles as long as they don’t touch one another. So what are the other bonus points on it, well compared to the 2 speed controllers and the mixers which are available on the market at the moment, you do not have any facility of altering the amount of ‘mix’ e.g. for the amount of movement of the rudder – to the speeds of the propellers. On this little unit you do have a little blue dial inside – and you can adjust this for your own benefit and your own model! Do we have this facility on the computerised transmitters – well – on my particular Futaba – although I do have the mixing facility it doesn’t have this facility for altering this percentage of mix. It is a case of ‘all or nothing’. So another bonus point for this little mixer.
Now for the BIG BONUS – inside there are also 2 little switches – these 2 switches allowing you to set between one and four modes. The first mode this little box does is allow each speed controller to work independently, in other words you use 2 sticks (left and right stick on the transmitter) as in tank steering.
In mode 2, there is a dual thruster mode – in other words you can use this unit for your bow and stern thrusters – mode 3 is 0 – 100% mix which is what we have described already; where the propeller speeds are mixed with the rudder movement and then there is mode 4 which gives you a 50% mix; where the motors automatically come in at a set speed as the rudder is moved over. There is a lot more to these modes and their uses and these are plainly described in the instructions. The other function is that you can actually add a third speed controller for vessels which have a triple screw – this is just a straight plug-in into the circuit board.
The other connections from the board are well marked as well – there is a plastic band around each lead – with an identification letter on. This is an immense sight-aid for everyone and also, decreases the chances of mistakes. Alongside these leads there is 2nd socket on the board which is marked H1 and this is where your steering servo plugs in. Apart from these 2 leads and sockets there are also 4 wires which come from the circuit board which are your main power supply. The reason there are 4 – is that it gives you the option of wiring 2 independent batteries up. Although these wires are not marked with an identity tag, they are colour coded. Red-positive Black-negative.
Now next to these – there are 2 terminal blocks and these are where your motors are connected. The only problem I did have – these terminal blocks they are not the push in and clamp down type (where I was pushing the wire in and tightening the screw it wasn’t clamping the wire). When I had a close look the terminal blocks have a ‘vice-jaw’ arrangement inside them. As you open them up, the vice-jaws open and you must place the wires between the jaws, not as I was doing on the top of the jaws :embarrassed: then when you have the wire firmly between the jaws, tighten the screw and it clamps the wire TIGHT. :embarrassed:
So this is all there is to the unit, all the wires and the connections.
How simple then is it to set up?
It took me about an hour, reading the instructions setting it up and then having a test of it.
As a side note; I showed the instructions to my son – and his knowledge of electronics is minimal – and my son had a read through and he said he would feel confident enough to attempt and install it into a model. So the instructions which come with this mixer are very, very good. They are not the standard photocopied instructions – they are printed and have 5 sides of clearly printed and coloured diagrams along with very explicit instructions in text. The instructions explain step-by-step how to set up, and, also what all of the modes actually do.
So, how does it stack up? Does it do the job YES IT CERTAINLY DOES.
The one thing I did find straight away – what they call a ‘ramp up speed’ of the speed controllers – in other words how fast they go from zero to full speed has been smoothed out – so you get no steps in the speed.
The other thing is when you use the mixer function, where the old mixer was very harsh, in other words it used to go from zero to flat out with very little movement on the rudder stick, and this has also been smoothed out. So the motors don’t try and rip themselves out of the motor beds – but it is nice and smooth running.
The only thing to be aware of is, although this mixer and speed controller unit work exceptionally well with modern-day /semi-modern day transmitters – with the very early day 40mghz transmitters we may have a bit of an issue. This is the channel separation inside the transmitters was prone to ‘bleed through’ and as I have found using the Sanwa Conquest Mark II transmitter, it lead to a little bit of a problem. As I had the throttle set on the left hand stick; controlling the speed controllers – and the rudder and mix on the right hand stick; what was happening was I was finding there was a very slight delay in one of the motors starting up. I therefore had a mis-match of speeds. The way I eventually fettled this mis-match was to move the rudder channel over to the left hand stick along with the throttle stick – so this gave me the movement of the throttles up and down and the rudder from left to right on the same stick. This cured the problem.
So all in all how does this new unit weigh up?
YES a little pricey, but don’t forget you are paying for 2 speed controllers and a mixer here. How much is a speed controller on its own? That is what you have to remember.
I have included a couple of photographs to show you the set up and what is inside, also I have included a photograph showing DON’T LOOK NOW MR JACKET an Electronize speed controller alongside the unit and at the back of it is a tobacco tin. Now this will give you some idea of the size of this unit.
-
John,
Do you get your Action gear at a special rate {-) {-)
The explanation on how the unit works is great and helpful for Newbies in understanding the units operation before purchasing. I plan to use Action in both of my current builds - I'm also impressed on your nice and neat installation - well done :-))
Martin doon under
-
ACTion give Mayhem members a 5% discount.
-
Interesting read.
I may get one of these for my next build. If it will work with my old Futab transmitter.
Looking forward to your next instalment on the build.
Mark
As a foot note.
Please, please post the complete build? There are so many on numerous forums that do the hull, a couple of pics of superstructure and then fade away. Nothing on fitting and finishing, which order to do the painting and fitting for best results. I only ask because I have just returned to the hobby after a long time away and want to know how things are generally/best done now.
Mark
-
A couple of points to clarify here :
Couple of changes to my original assessment – :-))
1. If you are using two batteries they MUST be connected together in parallel first, not simply connected one each to one pair of red and black leads. The illustrations show this clearly - I am sure! This is because any slight mismatch between them results in a LARGE surge of current as the higher-charged battery tries to discharge into the lower one. Without the external parallel connections this current passes straight through the PCB (printed circuit board) at a very thin point.
2. The Mode 4 (50% mix) doesn't kick in the motors at a fixed point. It does the same job as Mode 3, except that the inboard motor only goes as far as stopping at FSD and not into reverse. This is better for faster models e.g. patrol boats, while the 100% mix is better for workboats like tugs, or where you need a lot of leverage from the props to turn the hull e.g. a long thin warship. :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)
Mark47; I did try this unit with a Futaba 4 channel 27MHz (a very, very old one at that) and this transmitter doesn't have the reverse servo function built into it - but the P94 still worked well with it - but a bit more 'fiddly' due to the fact that I had to swap some of the motor wires around so that the correct motor kicked in when the rudder was moved over in that direction.
The only problem I encountered was with the Sanwa Conquest Mk II - I must admit this transmitter and receiver have always been a pain, even with other speed controllers, due to 'glitching' and 'not performing correctly'. The only reason I use it, it is very sentimental to me - as it was my very first 40MHz multi-channel which, whilst I was on holiday in Bournemouth I went into Westbourne Models and purchased it with hard-earned cash and I spoilt the rest of the holiday, cos I wanted to pop home and fit it into my model.
I will post more of this build as we go along, I am sorry I have no more pictures of the planking of the hull; but, obviously will take more pictures as we go along :-))
aye
john
-
I may get one of these for my next build. If it will work with my old Futaba transmitter.
Exactly how old is "old"? If you have an M or J Series set (with the exposed pins on the servo leads) then forget it. Those were nice radios in their day but have a neutral pulse width which probably won't suit P94. I haven't checked it as I gave away my M Series to a novice aeromodeller in about 1973, and sold my own Conquest Mk2 to another Mayhemmer about 18 months ago.
FLJ
and, BTW, Bluebird gets the same rate of discount as any other Mayhem member O0
-
hi there
Mark47, if you think about purchasing one of these above units, the P94, I would strongly advise that you email FLJ of ACTion or ring him and have a good talk with him. Dave will advise you of the suitability of this unit with your radio set up. I should not have really mentioned trying it on 27 cos the 2 sets I have, have been altered by the previous owner >>:-( >>:-( .
:-X :-X :-) ok2
So, to be honest with you, I can get numerous things to work with these radios - the only thing I cannot get it to do yet; is to make the coffee or tea.
aye
john
-
Thanks for the info guys.
Just to let you know. It's the Futaba Skysports 4, 40Mhz
Mark
-
Thanks for the info guys.
Just to let you know. It's the Futaba Skysports 4, 40Mhz
Mark
Should be no problems with this set.
FLJ
-
back to the build.....
couple of pics - progress so far.
As you can see - fitted the fittings required for the lower deck i.e. the bollards, fair leads and so forth. These are glued into place using superglue - also, I also finished painting the inside the lower deck using Humbrol number 64 and number 27 for the deck.
Next couple of pics you can see is where I am actually fitting the main deck; first of all I spread water resistant PVA glue over the frames and around the edge; and then I held the deck in place using cellotape and as many batteries as I could muster placed on top :}
After carefully trimming the deck flush with the sides, with various grades of sandpaper and filling any nicks or scratches in with car bodge filler; I moved on to put the side strengthening straps on. These are laminated out of 3 pieces of timber per side 2mm thick and glued and pinned in place. I am now in the process of sanding them to shape. You will see how I get the angle for the top is by placing a piece of scrap wood under the edge of the sanding block to lift it to an angle and then slide it along back and forwards gradually sanding the profile on the top of the strengthening strap.
-
and couple more pics showing the sanding process :-))
-
hi bluebird,
the progress is fantastic. i do like your stand as well, whats it made from?
-
Hi there Dan stand its made from 18mm thick plywood - what I normally do is go into the DIY shop/hobby shop where they have a bench saw which cut the materials to size - have a rummage round in the offcuts box - cos the offcuts can be a lot cheaper than having the material cut for you direct from a new sheet - that is where I get most of my building boards from as well. Even better if you can get to know the guy who operates the saw, like I know the guy in our local DIY shop - and he normally puts pieces of timber to one side which he thinks I may be interested in - paid about 2 quid for the material to make the stand. Also the edge which comes into contact with the model I glue on some foam for a soft bedding boat :-)) the foam I have I got from work which is a close cell foam similar to the type which machine parts come packed in.
aye
john
-
thanks for the quick reply john :-))
ill have a look at my local wood yard (two minute walk away) and see what i can find
-
back to the build.....
couple of pics - progress so far
aye
john
-
hi there all
Imeant to put this pic on earlier, but I got side-tracked. The progress so far is; as you can see, I have sanded to shape the 2 strengthening girders which run either side of the vessel - at deck level.
These have both been given 3 coats of sand ' n sealer, along with the deck :-))
Also, as you can see, I have opened up the deck for access underneath where the 2 main superstructures are located. I have closed in the opening with a half an inch high combing to prevent the ingress of water from the deck, if the deck gets wet.
the next part, the superstructure, is the good bit - I will add some more pics when I start it.
Also, given the bottom its first coating of red paint. The paint I have used is Humbrol 177 hull red which is no longer available but, I have managed to source a similar colour from White Ensign supplies.
aye
john
-
Hi there
Just a couple more pics of the build - I started on the main superstructure and this is all made from 1:32 ply with Obechi square timber supporting the corners of the structures. I have had to do a slight modification on the lower deck; on the Jacobin plans it shows the deck wings as a straight edge but when I have studied photos supplied to me by Holmsey of this Forum; it shows in actual fact that it has radiused ends.
The last picture you will see I am actually beginning to construct the bridge.
-
hi john,
beautiful build so far, i am a big fan of the warships.
just out of curiosity and NOT criticism, why do your prefer building in wood.
-
Plastic is white mans medicine to John ok2
Bit like going over to the dark side.
-
Plastic is white mans medicine to John ok2
Bit like going over to the dark side.
Could have sworn I typed magic, but it came out medicine. Doh %)
-
hi there Dan
Just to answer your question about the reason I prefer building in wood rather than plastic - I do work with plastic to a small degree - making fittings and various small superstructures from plasticard and plastic-strip (as you can see from the photographs which follow).
However, when I am working with wood, I do feel more in control by being able to shape and manipulate the wood to my advantage. I also find that working with wood - you do have a variety of wood materials to work with - because you can work with balsa, hardwoods, and plywoods etc. to achieve various finishes and also shapes.
When you are working with plastic though - that is it you are working with plastic - the only thing which varies are the thicknesses/ colours and also the bonding materials.
You will find there are a lot more glues which will bond timbers successfully that will bond plastics.
I will admit that it is far easier to achieve a finish on plastics with less effort than you do with timber.
Anyway, here are a couple of photographs of the air intakes, these are situated at the stern of the bridge midships and these are made from some left over net-curtain - window nets now 2-3 inches shorter (dont tell me Mrs) >>:-( some plywood 1/16 thick and plasticard of various thicknesses.
See what you think.
-
thanks blue bird, some fair point, ill have a go with timber next time because plastic is staring to annoy me a little.
the builds coming along nicely by the way
-
Net curtains, now there is a great idea :-))
-
hi there
Just a little progress report, I have been making the aft-superstructure which supports the funnel and also been making the funnel itself.
As you can see, the superstructure is made yet again, from plywood - 1:64 thick, which has been adequately supported with 1/4 Obechi strips in the corners; and along the edges where the roof is.
The next stage in the build is the actual manufacture of the funnel itself. After taking various tracings from the plan view of the shape of the funnel, and transferring them to the plywood which I was going to use, I built up a framework out of the plywood. The plywood was 1/16 thick and I braced the framework with 1/4 Obechi again, as can be seen in the photographs.
I then wrapped the whole funnel structure in 1:64 plywood.
This was then sanded and sealed; and then filled.
I am now in the process of fitting the actual outlets on the top of the funnel and these are made from circles of balsa wood covered with plasticard; and after I have finished these, I have to fit the grilles which are situated around the front of the funnel.
-
hi all
just a couple more pics of the build so far - as you will see I have completed the sub-structure of the helicopter hangar with some fittings attached at the rear - also done some work on the bridge and the Scott Dome platforms;
the materials used are 1:64 plywood with some 0.5 plasticard and some copper wire and bits and pieces.
aye
john e
bluebird
-
test
-
Looking good John, dont waste all your time drinking tea then.
Test what exactly ? {:-{
-
Hi ya there Dicky mate,
just testing out new PC :-)) the only problem is that it has the Vista on it - but so far so good! I have had to cofigure a lot of stuff, with resizing programmes - and the Mrs has done me a great favour - hey me Mrs has bought me a 26 inch monitor so I hardly have to move to check the Forum - I can see you having a cuppa too - hahah so watch what ya deeing.
Speak to you soon.
aye
john
ps have to get it right - so I can find that blinking ship.......trying to get all me favourites back etc., %) :-)) ;)
-
HI BLUEBIRD boatman here yours is a really nice build well done for building from the keel up now this is not critisium of your build but i just wondered why you hav'nt fitted the anntena levels on the funnel or are they still to build an fit just put a pic of my edinburghs funnel on so you can see what i mean i also built york as well an she has them fitted also again this is not critisum
chris
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk271/boatman501/P1010113-1.jpg)
-
Hi ya boatman 101
The reason I don’t add aerials and masts to the build whilst I am in the process of building; I find that I tend to catch them and knock them off – so therefore I tend to leave ‘sticky out’ items until near the finish of the build.
Also, if you notice I do not fasten structures down or glue them down = due to the fact that I find whilst working on the other parts of the superstructure it is easier to work on them if they are kept in small units
The other thing is, your comments are quite welcome, along with anyone else’s
aye
john
bloobs
-
THANKS bluebird for your answer an im the same i have made my edinburgh so that it all comes apart in case of any breakages as you say its easyier to work on small parts to repair :-))
chris
-
a couple more pics of the build so far ;)
-
Nice John.
Funny place for a funnel though. {:-{
-
looking goog John :-))
and welcome aboard Chris, why dont you post some of the pics of your builds on another thread?
-
hi there Dan
thanks for the kind comments; but, I do feel as though I am getting nowhere at the min - doing the small fittings; and trying to find the right place for the funnel %) ;) ;) and hey Welcome Aboard Chris, it would be nice to see some of your models and some of your builds.
aye
john
-
Great build John.She looks wonderful! :-)) Walter
-
hi there Dan
thanks for the kind comments; but, I do feel as though I am getting nowhere at the min - doing the small fittings; and trying to find the right place for the funnel %) ;) ;)
i know exactly how you feel, all i seem to be doing at the moment is sanding {:-{
-
just a couple more pics of the build so far
-
just a couple more pics that did no go on last time
aye
john
-
Very nice John, see you found a place for the funnel then. ok2
-
:-)) Hi John you are doing a great job with the build I have really enjoyed reading and looking at the photos of the build I only hope my boat looks as good as yours yes i have put photos of my build under Sir lancelot well done and keep the good work going. wallace
-
HI BLUBIRD boatman here just lookin at your pics an noticed on york 's stern a flap whats this ? as i have built york an edinburgh an have never seen this before
chris
-
HI BLUBIRD boatman here just lookin at your pics an noticed on york 's stern a flap whats this ? as i have built york an edinburgh an have never seen this before
chris
It is to give the ship an extra few knots of speed.
If you look at a T45 or an Arleigh burke they are fitted from the start but the T42's got them in a refit.
What it does is stop the the stern sinking into the water when the boats start to go faster.
Can't remember the proper name for them
But they are the new "in thing" for warship designs
-
hi ya there Chris
As gingyer has stated; HMS York has literally just come out from a £17m refit from F.S.L. Co (Fleet Support Ltd). Apart from upgrading the radar arrangements, the seadart missile launcher was upgraded as well. What they have actually done to the seadart launcher system - I am unsure - as yet anyway. I hope to receive some photographs so I can compare them.
One of the more notable alterations to the vessel is the additional trimtab across the stern.
Aye
john e
bluebird
-
Ahh - there's nothing like building in wood although I never seem to stop sanding.
Great job John. Keep up the good work - it's inspirational..
Now. if I can only figure out how to make this webcam work......
Martin doon under
-
hi ya there Chris
As gingyer has stated; HMS York has literally just come out from a £17m refit from F.S.L. Co (Fleet Support Ltd). Apart from upgrading the radar arrangements, the seadart missile launcher was upgraded as well. What they have actually done to the seadart launcher system - I am unsure - as yet anyway. I hope to receive some photographs so I can compare them.
One of the more notable alterations to the vessel is the additional trimtab across the stern.
Aye
john e
bluebird
do you know if any other ships will be upgraded? especially HMS Campbeltown
-
This is a great thread! Lots of good pics on building from scratch. It isnt my forte but all the same, its good to see how its done! :-))
One thing I noticed is that the rudders seem a little short or only seem to be in the very top of the prop wash. Will this affect rudder authority at all or is it just a trick of the photograph?
-
One thing I noticed is that the rudders seem a little short or only seem to be in the very top of the prop wash. Will this affect rudder authority at all or is it just a trick of the photograph?
Not a trick most modern RN warships have the rudders down to about the centre of the prop or just below
-
hi all
Just a quick update on what Ive been doing on hms york.
Ive been constructing a couple of cabins & bases for the radar.
Also been making the platforms for the Scot domes.
I think I may move on next and begin working on the main deck - to keep my interest fresh :-))
-
hi bluebird,
hows the build coming along? we havn seen any pictures for a while
-
Dan,
Bluebird has been too busy looking for lost Xtals {-) {-)
You found them yet
-
Riggers, remember the Chinese Proverb say he who follow the path of the mysterious Liberty Ship plans must first solve the missing Chrystal problem - in other words - buy a new one - like I have %% %% ...
As far as my build is going, I have been concentrating on the forward gun. Two attempts at the gun casing and achieving the correct angles - also making 3 gun barrels - 2 scrap through own stupidity learned the hard way when attempting last one :D .
I am now concentrating on the rocket launcher.
The Rocket launcher and gun do track and elevate & the electronics for these are a mixture of modified servos and electronics from ACTion.
Working on secret plan for missiles. experimented on one missile firing; and it can pentrate 1/2 inch fibreglass re-enforced model hull at 10 yards. <*< Looking for a suitable target on Tynemouth Lake - any offers there. :police:
Couple of pics here.
aye
john e
bluebird
-
Couple more pics for Dicky - prove I am still busy working on the Type 42 :-)) Been making a lot of ammo cases, also, putting in anchor hawsers and winches.
Seem to be have been doing lots of work, and getting nowhere.
Just received some brass etchings from John Haynes for it; some eye-bolts and flat bar stanchions....looking good and by what you need really is a very good magnifying glass to see the eye-bolts and some good tweezers to pick them up with. :-)) :-))
aye
john e
-
hi bluebird,
i wondered where the build had gone, its looking great. how long do you think itll be before its on the water?
Seem to be have been doing lots of work, and getting nowhere.
i know how you feel mate, when i do get time to spend working on Campbeltown i do as much as i can and have nothing to show for it {:-{
-
Really a wonderful build with some excellent detail!
Tc
-
Very nice John, nice to see you haven't been spending all your time drinking tea. ok2
-
Looking good John! :-))
-
hi all,
Cheers for the compliments :-))
At this present moment, I am beginning to put handrails and canopy rails in place, around the superstructure.
Someone, on a previous posting, questioned the upturned 'v' shape /inverted 'v' shape around the front of the bridge on the Type 42. This rail, in actual fact, is used for putting a marquee affair/canvas cover over. This is where it attaches to the front bridge. This is the job I have started with.
After reading that previous posting, a certain Mr Haynes advertised his photoetched Eyebolts at 1:96 scale - and so I promptly ordered some from John (500+ on a brass etched fret) also, I ordered 200 flat bar Navy-style stanchions. The idea here being that the stanchions all around the superstructure & mastwork - I am going to use John Haynes' flat bar stanchions. John's are a real true fine scale stanchions and will bend quite easily if you are careless.
The railings around the deckwork I am using James Lane stanchions this is because they are slightly thicker, but still at a perfect scale - they will withstand a knocking around this area (which will and is quite vulnerable from handling). :-))
Here are a few tips for those who have never used John Haynes' stanchions or brass etched work; be warned - they are extremely fine and one has to handle them with care, whilst assembling. The way I am proceeding with this, especially with the eye-bolts, is I am working over a clean white sheet of paper - this is because the eye-bolts are very small and if you drop one you would lose it instantly on your workbench - so the trick is, mark off the positions around the superstructure where you want your eye-bolts to fit. By the way I am using these eye-bolts to secure handrails. Drill with a 0.4 mm small drill, at the correct location, and then one at a time fit the eye-bolt in after you have dipped it into some superglue, and, when you have all of your eyebolts lined in line, slide your brass rod of 0.5mm thick, through the eye-openings and around each contact area apply a tiny drop of superglue using a dress makers pin to apply the glue. When the glue has hardened/set on the inside of the superstructure where the tabs of the eyebolts have come through, bend them and then glue them into position with superglue.
I have included a photograph of where I have tried using John Haynes' flat bar stanchions around where the Scot domes are going to be; and what I found there as well is, these stanchions will bend very easily, so remember to be very careful with them. Yet again, I am using a small drop of superglue on the end of a dressmakers' pin to apply superglue to the rail joint where the rail joins the stanchion.
Couple of pics, I am afraid they are slightly out of focus, but, bear in mind these eye-bolts and railings are very small and fine. When they are all in place, it does give that professional touch /look to it, so well worth it.
aye
john
-
And I thought I was crazy scratch building Ammo Lockers.
Think I'll stick to larger scale models. I'd need several shots of Scotch just to keep my hands steady enough to do the task %) %)
Well done John - you have more patience than I :-))
Martin doon under
-
hi all,
sore eyes...and needing a break ;) %% %% been on for days fitting the handrails and stanchions - nearly 150 stanchions up to now, just on this little bit of work on the superstructure
it is one of those jobs, where you think you are doing great, stand back and see you have hardly scratched the surface...well, another tea break and I will do some more...here are a few pics so you can see how I am getting along.
aye
john
-
Nice job John.
I'm getting a bit worried as we appear to be having our tea breaks at the same time as each other, still as long as I don't have as many as you---------------------------------- ;)
-
WELL Bluebird she's a super build are you havin any workin features on her ?
-
Hi Bluebird John been keeping upto date with your build and i must say its fab and I really meen that as an X RN lad I love the navy boats sorry ships Im like yourself got to have the tea breaks while building I think you have been looking at my build not put any photos on for a few weeks been doing and re-doing bits on it will post some very soon keep up the good work forgot to say im building the Sir lancelot.
wallace
-
Hi there all
Quick update here; couple of pics.
To answer the questions - the only working features I have included in this model are:
main search radar which will rotate; main gun and missile launcher swivel - I am not going to put any lights on this model/or any more working features.
At the moment I am constructing the 20mm guns; all from Plasticard.
You may be able to make out the framework on the port side; the white plastic assembly.
The two main masts are still not attached yet and they are removable - this is because I am bothered in case I damage the brass spars and so forth.
aye
john e
bluebird
-
Looking good John, should be floating it soon {-)
-
Hi there one and all
Just a couple more pics which I forgot to put on the with my last posting. It shows the starboard side and heli hanger/
Aye
John e
bluebird
-
Hi just a couple more pics of the build so far :-)
You will see :
I have added
bollards
fair leads
Phalex guns
ammo lockers - all of these scratch built
You will see also there is a rotary decoy launcher as well - where the old torpedo tubes used to be
Not much more to go...at least that is what I keep telling myself :-))
aye john e
bluebird
-
Looking good John.
Let me know when you finish it and I will try and sink it for you, all in the interest of science of course. ok2
-
Lovely job John, really nice.
Colin
-
Smashing, John. We follow your build with great interest and hope to emulate you one day. :-)) Admirable work. Thanks for posting.
Ken
-
Hi John.....great build O0 ....you call them "Phalex" ....in OZ they are termed as CIWS...[close in weapons system....or phalax] & from memory built by the Rayathon Corporation
Slightly off topic ;D....many years ago......one of our HMAS DDG's returned to home base @ GID in Sydney after Taskforce 83 with the USS....complete with what appeared as a new twin CIWS installation atwart ship in a similar position to the USS DDG's
Upon inspection %% ....the CIWS were just a mock up {-)....205 litre drums with lengths of 1/2" NB water pipe as barrels ...... O0 ;D :embarrassed: >>:-(
I could not explain what I found to my :police:........Derek
-
hi all, quick thanks for all the comments. heres a few pics of the sea trails on sunday which were very successful, apart form damage caused to the jackstay when removing it from the car and also i was picked on by a little trawler - rammed in the side causing a few liferafts to go astray.
aye
john
bloobs
-
Superb John :-))well done
where did you get the black/yellow warning circles from
-
Welcome back John, you were missed.
..... we were just talking amongst are selves while they reinvented Broadband down your street! :-))
-
Well done my old mate, has your good lady got over carrying it to the lake.
See it didnt fall over then.
Did you use Google Earth to find the lake ? {:-{
-
Gobsmacked.......
Just...........superb as usual. Spot on John.
-
Superb John :-))well done
where did you get the black/yellow warning circles from
hi all thanks for the compliments, just to answer the question on how i made the yellow and black warning circles - their made from the thinnest plastic card i could get which is .025mm. draw a circle on and divided it into equal segments, painted alternate segment black and yellow and then when dried i cut them out with a circle cutter
aye
john
-
thanks for that Bluebird some food for thought there :-))
-
Nice one all now on C.D. Used the two pictures of her in the water as a finish to the write up. One more picture of her on your workbench for the jewel case cover picture please to me @ home.
There all probably guessing what the next build is.
Some I done sometime ago still playing about with altering the labels
-
Thats Nice John, :-))soon as I saw the plank on frame beautifully finished, I could see where I am going wrong - I need tools, clamps, etc, {-) %%
-
Aha! Found your thread John. - And had a good look through too. Great model marra :-))
-
Hi John,
I too am building a plank on frame hull of HMS Illustrious, and found this thread looking for photos of other builder who have doe this before, as I have not and want to try it. I am unable to view the photos of your work for some reason, my be they are on photobucket and the link has gone, I am in North Ayrshire can you help me any. Paul
-
H John in UK it is classed as a CIWS and by name either Phalanx or the Dutch Goalkeeper system
-
How things change {-)
In my day CWIS
Close in weapons systems were belaying pins <*< <*< <*<
Ned
-
That was a beautiful build John. It shows that just because a model is grey, it isn't flat. The detail on that superstructure is astounding.
Well worth a read especially as I found the review of the P94 unit by Action. Looks like a good value piece of hardware.
Can you use it with four shaft ships by twinning up port and starboard motors?