Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Seaspray on February 01, 2009, 06:35:05 pm
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Went into B & Q yesterday to buy some 100w bulbs. The bloke in there was telling me you can't get them for love or money and they don't make em any more. So I was shopping (forced expedition with missus) today and came across some 6 packs with, 40s, 60s, 100 w bulbs and bought quickly. They were in Poundland.
Checking around the house (under the bed) I found 8 100w bulbs and the outside security lights (5) have 100w bulbs in them. So I should be O.K. for a time. After they have all gone I don't know what I'll do.
I don't like these new energy bulbs as they take too long to become bright and if you look at them I get a white spot in the eye. So get some 100 w bulbs if you know where to get some.
Seaspray
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I think 100w lamps are loosing favour in our enlightened (sorry!) times of saving the planet and to be honest there is not a great deal of difference between the lighting effect outside at night betwen a 60w and a 100w lamp.
If you really don't like the short delay that the mini flourescents have then why not have a look at LED lamps. They are developing fast, use a fraction of the energy of an incandescent lamp, last forever and are extreemly bright.
Lamp technology is developing at a very fast pace nowadays and 100w incandescents really are a thing of the past.
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I find the newer low energy lamps come to full brightness a lot quicker. Obviously not the same as a filament bulb.
I'm not too keen on the look of them, but then I suppose my ancestors bemoaned the passing of gas mantels.
When a bulb goes in our house it gets replaced with a low energy
50p for two at Morrissions the other day, if I remember correctly.
if you look at them I get a white spot in the eye. and you don't with a 100 watt? 8)
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Morissons has an offer on at the moment for low energy bulbs , by a twin pack @0.48p and get 2 twinpacks free.. screwin and bayanet. wattage equivalant 40w 60,w 100 all included in deal.
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You can get low energy bulbs that give the same as a 100w filament bulb, look for 35 or 40w.. A good thing with low energy bulbs is they do not generat as much heat as a conventional bulb, and the light is more blue and less red, getting near to day light once 'warmed up'.
Halogen bulbs; very Hot, dont last as long, and when one goes bang, It Goes BANG. Even the low pressure ones!
LED bulbs. In theory should last for ever, and I have hear that befor long you will be able to but lamps with the LED bulb hard wireded into the lamp!!!
The light can be a bit cold in colour, but they are also cold running. (OK they get a little warm but should not run hot). LED are also the only form of light source that will really save you money.
Every one that has changed a lot of lights to Halogen are often surprised that the electric bill is not as small as they had hoped. It may well be that the power comes out of the transformer at 12v, but there is stil 240v going in, and getting used.
Some stange way LED lights, just use minimal power, and still give a lot of light.
Personally, I like a good old floresent strip with a day light tube in the work shed, but on my desk I have an 'old fasion 80w clear bulb in a multi architec lamp.. (sod the expense) :-(
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There are a lot of cheapie low energy bulbs around at the moment which are nominally equal to 60 watts but actually nearer 40 and give off an unpleasant pallid light. As said earlier, the latest good quality ones do come to full brightness very quickly. I have found that the Phillips "ice cream spiral" ones aren't bad and they have a 20 watt design which is supposed to be equivalent to 115 watts. It certainly matches a 100 watt pearl incandescent. They cost between two and three pounds each though. Bunkerbarge is right in that LEDs are the way forward. At the moment they are very expensive and basically consist of a pile of rings of Hi Bright LEDs in a glass envelope but the cost will come down in time. In the meantime you could look at mains halogen bulbs which give a bright clear light and save around 30% over incandescents.
One of the problems with low energy lamps is whether they will fit your light fitting. Many are too fat at the base and of course they aren't much good if you have chandeliers. I expect lots of Mayhemers have chandeliers.... %)
Colin
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Some of you may be interested in a few figures as regards this topic.
On a reasonably sized cruise ship I know quite well a process of changing out the halogen lamps in the passenger corridors was started a couple of years ago. They changed 650 x 50w halogens for 7w mini florescents, a saving of 43w each or nearly 28 kw. That's the eqivilent of 28 of the old bar fires kicking out heat into the corridors!! The cost of the new lamps and fittings came to over $9000.00 but the time taken to recoup the cost in saved fuel? About 8 months. Since they they have gone on to change lamps in a lot of other areas of the ship and are saving very large sums of money in fuel costs.
I agree that a lot of people do not see a significant change in thier energy bills but what percentage of the total bill is the lamps when compared to the electric cooker, tumble drier, steam iron, hair driers, TV's on stand by etc...etc...? Changing the lamp in the loung from 60w to 7w is going to save 53w but then you use a 1400 w vacuum cleaner to hoover the carpet!!!
As I said LED's will soon take over from the mini flourescents as soon as the colouyr is better corrected and they produce a dimmable lamp. They are already in existance but still need developement for commercial sales. They are on thier way though and will revolutionise lighting.
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There are now a lot of LED lamps available for the leisure boating fraternity, very important for them as battery power is always at a premium. But they are still pricey, £30 upwards for a navigation light for example.
Colin
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Get with the 21st century! <*<
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/01/30/45373/white-led-breakthrough-could-lead-to-mass-uk-production.htm
(http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2009/01/30/45373/white-led-breakthrough-could-lead-to-mass-uk-production.htm)
LEDS rather than compact fluorescent bulbs are being touted in more progressive countries.
Just look at your electricity statement to see what you pay per kilowattHour.
The three disconnected 60w spotlights you see cost 2pence/hour to run.They only lit up part of our kitchen and were useless for the work surfaces.I've just fitted eighteen replacement 3 watt leds to solve that dark corner's problem and the leds will pay for themselves in a few months.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/boto_phucket/th_100watt006.jpg) (http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/boto_phucket/?action=view¤t=100watt006.jpg)
The lenses and clips(left photo) hook onto three watt leds(right photo) and are very unobtrusive.
(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/boto_phucket/th_100watt004.jpg) (http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/boto_phucket/?action=view¤t=100watt004.jpg)(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/boto_phucket/th_100watts004.jpg) (http://s621.photobucket.com/albums/tt291/boto_phucket/?action=view¤t=100watts004.jpg)
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Low energy lamps do not save you energy or the planet, If you turn them on and off the same amount of time you do an incandescent one they most probably will not last any longer their electronics can not take the consitant on/off, they only last longer if you leave them on wasting your electricity. Also they can not be disposed off the same way the older lamps were, they contain mercury, just like flourescent tubes, as soon as they are u/s they must be disposed of as a toxic waste. something else your council can charge you for.
Do not forget if you break one of these new lamps the white dust you see is mercury, it aint good for you.
There are now companies making a lot of money recycling these lamps, so the only thing they are good for is the profits of these companies.
Brian
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There is also the point that during the winter, the heat given off by incandescent lamps helps to heat your home so your central heating will save an equivalent amount and the lamps cost you nothing extra.
Colin
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Electricity companies squeeze out every penny of profit they can get.They buy equipment based upon the total cost of running the gadgets over their lifetime and not the purchase cost.It is their example we should follow.
It is in winter time that the bulk of cost savings are madein this country.Gas heating is much cheaper than electricity.
Here is the argument in simpler terms courtesy of a recent "red top" headline.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/29/led-lights-will-cut-bills-by-75-per-cent-115875-21079319/ (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/29/led-lights-will-cut-bills-by-75-per-cent-115875-21079319/)
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Here in Ontario the incandescent bulb is being outlawed in 2011. It'll be all funny fluorescents after that. The slow start may not be much for most, but try putting them in your motion detectored security light, or out door porch light and expect them to start quick at -20C.......won't happen. Got time to make a cup of tea before they come up to full brilliance.
John
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I had the new bulbs in security lights, with motion detectors, in shanghai.
They died quickly. It may have been the on/off, on/off........ cycle.
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Slight aside from the topic but also about energy saving.....
Why do governments not ban most of the huge advertising signs made from neon lights? From my house I can see a large supermarket and a DIY "shed", they both have signs just giving their names which must be at least 3m high and 15m long, they burn day and night. This on top of car park lighting which would do a sports stadium proud!
It makes me feel "Why should I bother?". OK so I know that if I and my neighbours economise it would more than pass what the shops could save but if I feel like that then so must many others.
I know that some lighting can be justified on security grounds but not the advertising.
Roger in France.
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All I can say at the moment that I am glad I've got a supply of 100w bulbs in doors. I was looking at the energy savers and worked out I would need to fit a 19 or 25 one to cover the light from a 100w standard bulb. They have the screw fixture like in Canada to buy one then convert the light socket to screw seemed the best idea.
I'll wait till all the 100w are all gone by then things may have settled down. It reminds me of not buying a new model of car for those that know what I am talking about.
I thought the continent was on a lower voltage than us in the U.K.
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There is also the point that during the winter, the heat given off by incandescent lamps helps to heat your home so your central heating will save an equivalent amount and the lamps cost you nothing extra.
Colin
or you could put an extra jumper on :-))
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I thought the continent was on a lower voltage than us in the U.K.
Only marginally. In th UK the nominal voltage is 240, on the Continent it is 220 but I think the actual figure fluctuates around those and for most purposes appliances are interchangable. Some parts of the world including the US have 110 volts. That is why portable appliances like shavers and chargers now automatically sense the input voltage and adapt accordingly.
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Our voltage in the UK was dropped some time ago and we are at 230, I believe it was to make the supply of power from the continent to the UK easier. All appliances we buy now are rated at 230vac.
Brian
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Hi all, I recently looked at changing over to LED domestic lights. The 2.3 watt light (runs direct from 240 volt AC) is equivalent to 35 watts output. Unfortunately they cost over £10.00 each, I don't think you recover the cost in sufficient time to be worthwhile.
W have a recent loft conversion and changed the lights downstairs to match in, I have about 30 GU 10 type ceiling lights all at 50 watts o/p. They are still a small saving over the incandescent bulbs.
Where we are still left with the old bayonet light fittings (2 places) we have low energy bulbs and it is very obvious too with the low light output.
So in theory we could reduce our lighting power requirement dramatically. BUT I have a fixed price contract with Staywarm and there is no incentive for me to save them money.
I recommend anyone with an over 60 person in the house to check with them as I cannot find an energy supplier who is cheaper.
This company has bulbs etc. on offer, perhaps someone knows where they are cheaper?
http://www.bltdirect.com
I believe that Australia is going over to LED lighting, are the bulbs cheaper there?
regards Roy
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Try Holland - great selection of bulbs there. :}
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Only light from those bulbs is the colour. Back on course shipmate
Seaspray
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I think LEDs are only pricey coz they are fairly new. Once manufacutres get the money back from retooling the prices hould come down.
I mean look at LED torches. They give them away as freebies now. A few years ago they was at least a tenner.
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Another bonus, LED lights come on quicker than filament bulbs.
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A couple of points concerning these b****y lamps.
Everyone is sounding off about them saving you money (or reducing carbon footprint or whatever). If you do the sums for the lamps you will find that, yes, they consume a lower amount of power (in watts) and as you are metered (charged) in terms of kWH you will pay less if you use them. The unseen effect, and one that everyone is keeping very quiet about, is that to achieve this performance the actual electrical load taken from the supply is higher in terms of V.A. In other words, the effect on the individual pocket is reduced but the cost to the generator is most certainly not. There is no such thing as a free lunch and this is most certainly true in the wonderful world of electricty. Reduced carbon footprint? Really? Um, ah, well.....
They have also been found by a number of people to be the cause of health concerns - particularly in the line of eyes / headaches. If you consider that they actually switch off as they follow the supply frequency waveform, the flicker can be very upsetting to some people. Yes, this effect can be reduced by altering the powder coating inside the tube, but it is a stated effect for any type of fluorescent tube. On a personal level, my partner has thrown all the new "high efficiency" lamps out as they were giving her serious eye trouble - and she had this checked by her optician.
Is this whole subject not just another example of "experts" jumping onto the bandwagon to comply with European ideas? The blind being led by the partially sighted?
A footnote: re supply voltages. These were changed (on paper) to comply with the European standards. The actual voltages supplied by the companies are unchanged. After all, who could afford to physically alter every network in the country when we still have areas with non-standard systems in operation after over eighty years of standardised voltages?
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One point regarding 100W bulbs - if you look at the card that the bulb holders come on in B&Q and similar places, you will have difficulty finding one that admits to being suitable for more than 60W. This has been the case for a great many years, so unless the fittings are not the composite bakelite and brass type, not being able to get 100W bulbs is probably a hidden benefit.
I do have the strong feeling that the first generation of low energy bulbs are a come-on to get us all blinking like owls to the benefit of opticians and line the pockets of disposal companies - roll on LEDs.
Lampshades that clip over proper bulbs don't fit properly on the wiggly glass tubes, so thats more unwanted expense replacing items that have years of use left in them. I suspect that the people who are charged with making these decisions for us have the kind of lifestyle that insists they change such items at six month intervals because we are paying them far too much and they can therefore afford it.
A thought - if the low energy types are used in a workshop environment, do they have the same strobing effect with rotating tools as tubes?
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I thought the continent was on a lower voltage than us in the U.K.
Only marginally. In th UK the nominal voltage is 240, on the Continent it is 220 but I think the actual figure fluctuates around those and for most purposes appliances are interchangable. Some parts of the world including the US have 110 volts. That is why portable appliances like shavers and chargers now automatically sense the input voltage and adapt accordingly.
You can include Canada in that 110 volt domestic voltage too. In fact our frequency is different from yours too. We run at 60 cycles while you folks run at 50 cycles.
John
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Hi all, I can see this must be a problem for more than a few. Some years ago we went over to a 100htz. refresh rate TV and my headaches went. The screen I am using now is about 80 htz and I am OK with that as well.
regards Roy
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Glad this subject came up. I know the arguments for fridges and ovens and so on, but I have yet to see any reference to "reflector" bulbs and spotlights. If these are phased out then it will cause a lot of hassle.....and how will photographic studios etc get on?
Just asking. BY.
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A couple of points concerning these b****y lamps.
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Scottish Hydro are giving out complimentary Philips fluorescent bulbs so they can't have heard about power factor. :-)
I tried them.They took an age to light up and produce half the output of white leds.
.....A footnote: re supply voltages. These were changed (on paper) to comply with the European standards. The actual voltages supplied by the companies are unchanged. After all, who could afford to physically alter every network in the country when we still have areas with non-standard systems in operation after over eighty years of standardised voltages?
Strange you should say that.I swore my soldering iron took longer to heat up and my kettle took longer to boil when I came home after a new year trip.
For those that asked about strobing,I don't see a big laminated iron core so they won't have a 100Hz flicker http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/lowbulb.html (http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/lowbulb.html)
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I went through my school years with migraines, and it wasn't until I moved out of the house and joined the Navy (and lived in a WWII era barracks) that I discovered a sensitivity to the 60 cycle strobe effect of florescent bulbs. The big tubes are the worst but the new compact ones can set it off. I was listening to the radio last summer and they said that England was outlawing regular (filament) light bulbs and that those suffers of migraines were already complaining and writing their representatives. My house has at least one regular bulb in each fixture and that seems to mitigate it for me. The three big tubes in the Kitchen rarely get turned on since I prefer lower light levels for almost everything and a dozen 40 watt, 4 foot long tubes is over kill for tow minutes in the kitchen to get an orange.
Another thought is that the long tubes have mercury and cadmium in the tubes so they must be recycled, not multiply demand for them by a factor of about four (conservatively) accounting for the longer life, and that is still a hell of a lot of pollution!
Foo
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I've never owned a 100W bulb. Mostly use 40-60W and an anglepoise where I need it. 4 of them in the workshop.
Voltage. It's higher in the countryside as the lower load doesn't cause the voltage drop. Where I grew up it used to be we were asked 'town or country' when buying a bulb but now they are all the same and burn out quicker.
The common voltage 'grid' is fairly recent - some of you must remember the changeover. There is a good article somewhere in Model Engineer by LBSC recounting the process of modifying peoples appliances as they were joined on to the grid, much like the change to north sea gas which I remember at school resulting in new bunsen burners in the chemistry labs.
Just thought, I have a bunsen, now if I can find a mantle I can rig up a light and make toast at the same time. {-)
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The strobe effect produced by tubes is caused by the voltage dropping at the end of each half cycle. It can be reduced in effect by the use of different powders in the tube - having a greater afterglow. It is normally only noticed in the presence of rotating machines (until these lousy lamps came into use!) and was traditionally cured by using a twin tube fitting with each tube being knocked out of syncronisation with the other electrically by using a lag - lead circuit arrangement. One manufacturer of fittings claimed that due to the vastly improved tubes they used, such fittings were not necessary. Strange that, in our machine shop, I would have sworn blind that we obtained a strong strobe effect on the lathe chucks - but maybe that was just my eyesight %).
The function of the choke (the big laminated iron core) is twofold (a) to produce a high voltage at start to strike the tube (b) to limit the current during normal running. Without a means of limiting the current, the current would rise rapidly and strip the anode of the tube and possibly rupture the actual tube.
Re the power factor question raised by StallspeedScottish Hydro are giving out complimentary Philips fluorescent bulbs so they can't have heard about power factor
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If you consider supply networks, low(er) power factor is really only a problem on the lower voltage systems as (in extreme circumstances) it could involve having to upgrade supply cables and transformers to cope with the extra current demand. As the system voltages increase, i.e. as you go back through the system toward the generation point, the system has a larger capacitive component built into it by it's very design. Their worry is not low power factor but rather the opposite - a leading power factor. In the big picture, the percentage of the total system load due solely to domestic lighting is small.
The point I was making was not the power factor involved but rather the increase in the load on the system in terms of the Volt Amperes.
If this is old news to you - please ignore!
The common voltage 'grid' is fairly recent - some of you must remember the changeover.
The event you are refering to was agreed in the U.K. in the mid 1920's.
Because of the costs involved, some of the old systems still hang on. Quite often they are a hangover from the system used to supply electricity from the local tramways systems - so even in large cities, you can find oddities. How about cable systems formed by having a wood trough filled with bitumen with lightly insulated copper conductors laid inside the trough? Sorry, going off topic.
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The event you are refering to was agreed in the U.K. in the mid 1920's.
I think it was more likely the early '60s event, when large areas of the country that were still on 210 volts AC at 50 Hz were converted to a nominal 240. I am sure lots of people remember having their telly "done over" and having a cinemascope effect on the telly until the day dawned and full power came on. Not long before that, there were houses in Fleetwood (according to my mate who was a growing lad there in the '50s) where the supply for lighting was DC but the rest of the house was fed separately with AC. He got a lot of aggravation from a mate of his when he sold him a model train transformer that wouldn't work when fitted with a light bulb adaptor (!) instead of a plug. DC supplies are not suited to transformers.
I would still contend that most of this is about forcing a wholesale changeover at the public's expense to the benefit of manufacturers and disposal companies to do a job that was unnecessary in the first place.
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W have a recent loft conversion and changed the lights downstairs to match in, I have about 30 GU 10 type ceiling lights all at 50 watts o/p. They are still a small saving over the incandescent bulbs.
Hate to disappoint you Roy, but according to my man in the trade - he designs lighting schemes - the light efficiency of a GU10 bulb is actually worse than a 'normal' bulb. A normal bulb produces 12 Lumens per watt, a GU10 produces only 11 Lumens per watt. The 12volt versions are better at 18 Lumens per watt. For the highest efficiency you need a metal halide of 35 watts, which gives 94 Lumens per watt. Comapct Fluorescents range from 57 - 69 Lumens per watt, the larger sizes being more efficient.
High Power LEDs, not the ones we use in models, have a range of 54 - 72 Lumens per foot.
Barrie
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The event to which Bee is referring was a decade ago give or take a few years.
At new year the mains supply went from 240 to 230.....third time lucky,Bee?
New LED GU10 lamps will work worldwide so that is progress,no?
This house now has DC lighting thanks to 70watt laptop adapters but it is a step in the right direction.I've been unlucky with power cuts but I've now got battery backup.
Sweeper,I had to doodle a power factor correction transformer design on a calculator as a CAD program didn't handle a delta zigzag .Electricity distribution transformers had a p.f. of 0.1 on short circuit test so they needed synchronous capacitors (power factor correction generator) to test them.
I had a brief flirtation with high power lamp ballast design too.
I still don't know why you raised the subject of p.f. {-) {-) {-)
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It was either the late thirties or 1948 with nationalisation. Most people had nothing more than a few lights and a radio. LBSC was unusual in having several motors for his lathes which had to be swapped or rewound.
Reading a bit on the web electric domestic lighting was relatively uncommon in the UK before WW2. I dare say a significant number of forum members were born into gas or oil lit households.
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LBSC 'Curly' has been mentioned a few times. For those who don't know who he was (not many I hope) here is a small link of him.
http://www.slightlybetterbooks.com/lbsc.htm
Seaspray
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Just a quick point we had to drop our voltage to comply with europe, and we will be going down to 220 volts in the next 5 years, however, there was a nice little loophole, which meant we were allowed a 10% leeway, so although we have dropped we are still at around 235v (depends where you are, some area's may only get 216-220)
Of course as your volts go down. your amps go up, and so will your electric bill.
On the light bulb front (for those that don't know, I work in the entertainment industry) in the past when I designed the lighting for shows (west end and other) power demand for the show would be about 450 amps per phase (lot of power) these days days with LED technology, and high wattage low current discharge lamps we only use about 250 amps per phase (still a lot). LED's have made a huge impact, and has been said you can dim them (we do all the time) but as yet it has not reached the domestic market, but it will not be long (according to the trade mags) By the time the poor old 100watt lamp disapears, LED and energy lamps would have improved many fold (again according to the trade mags) So no panic (but still worth stock pilling) :-)
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Of course as your volts go down. your amps go up, and so will your electric bill.
Is that right? I thought that your lamps just got dimmer and drew less power - or does that just apply to DC installations?
Colin
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Hi BarrieW, thanks for the information on Halogen bulbs. I was told that the GU 10 / halogen bulb was more efficient, Sainsburys currently sell one with a claimed 20 % power saving, so this does not apply across the board?
Mind you I now have a ceiling space that is fully illuminated!
Can anyone tell me why dimmer switches have to be uprated 100% to operate Halogen lights. I do understand p.f. from my electronic days, if this is also a factor (no pun intended).
regards Roy
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There would appear to be some crossed lines in here.
The event to which Bee is referring was a decade ago give or take a few years.
The standardisation of voltages in the UK was put forward in 1925/6 by Merz (the "father" of the Grid system).
It was agreed that the arrangement would be a 4wire 3phase system operating at 415V/240v 50Hz(for networks supplying consumers).
A British standard spec was drawn up (modified post-war) of prefered and non-prefered voltages. The standard for public D.C. supplies was dropped. I believe the last public D.C. supply network was used in Middlesborough and closed around 1964/65. There is however a fair amount of the old DC networks still in use running at 480V/240V A.C. using 3 wires (two outers and a mid-wire) which gives, in effect, a single phase supply. That much of these systems is well over a hundred years of age is proof of the adage "if it ain't broke...".
Sweeper,I had to doodle a power factor correction transformer design on a calculator as a CAD program didn't handle a delta zigzag .Electricity distribution transformers had a p.f. of 0.1 on short circuit test so they needed synchronous capacitors (power factor correction generator) to test them.
I had a brief flirtation with high power lamp ballast design too.
I still don't know why you raised the subject of p.f. {-) {-) {-)
(1) Sorry, the only methods of pf correction that I am aware of are by using static capacitors or syncronous machines. Neither of which are used by the supply companies. Power factor correction is a problem for the customer to sort out. If they don't do it, the authorities have a neat way of ensuring that they take it seriously - they get a stinging charge on their bills if their pf drops below a certain value (value varies around the country but is normally about 0.8 or 0.75) and that, on a large industrial site can amount to big bucks.
(2) The only times I have encountered Zig Zag transformers is in their use on EHV systems as a means of providing an earthing connection (an artificial star point).
(3) The reference to short circuit conditions is immaterial. Equipment required for testing is very different to that needed in operation.
(4) Finally, If you check the contents of this thread, I didn't raise the subect of power factor. I think you'll find that it was your good self
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Scottish Hydro are giving out complimentary Philips fluorescent bulbs so they can't have heard about power factor
Regards etc.
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The unseen effect, and one that everyone is keeping very quiet about, is that to achieve this performance the actual electrical load taken from the supply is higher in terms of V.A. In other words, the effect on the individual pocket is reduced but the cost to the generator is most certainly not.
I'll gladly admit you beat me to it :}
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Hi BarrieW, thanks for the information on Halogen bulbs. I was told that the GU 10 / halogen bulb was more efficient, Sainsburys currently sell one with a claimed 20 % power saving, so this does not apply across the board?
Sorry - don't know the answer to that - I know that you can get Low Energy ones, but the light output is not very good. I was quoting figures from a talk our Club Chairman gave last month (run out of Boaty topics temporarily) - he works for one of the lighting companies.
I just today needed to buy a replacement candle bulb to fit into a picture light - small screw fitting and limited space, so no chance of using the low energy types, but was able to buy one claiming 30% reduction. As far as I can tell its a halogen bulb in a candle envelope. Light is comparable to the incandescent in the other half of the fitting.
Barrie