Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: regiment on March 11, 2009, 01:59:40 pm
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yesterdays parade. some one should have shouted halt. face right . fix bayonets charge ENGLAND for ever >:-o >:-o
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seen this on another forum and the reaction was pretty much the same and as an ex service man I agree ,the armed forces are due respect for the work they do with the poor resources they have
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Just looked this up on The Times online and as another ex serviceman totally agree. At the same time that is why we and others before us served, protection of free speech and democracy.
Not a rascist, never have been but if these people really believe what they say then they can leave the western democracy that protects them and go to a land that shares their views.
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Yup, deport them back home, they are living here by choice, would they get a choice back home?
Paul... <*<
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The problem is, lads, that these scumbags are probably white english thugs that have been brought up in this free country of ours, and live under the deluded aprehension that if we don't defend our shores against fanatical radicals, they will leave us all in peace and stop growing opium, stop developing nuclear weapons grade plutonium, stop indiscriminate terrorist attack against innocent human beings and forget we exist.
some b****y hope. >>:-(
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These "protesters" are so thick and so well indoctrinated that they invariably blame the wrong people. But the Muslim fraternity isn't solely to blame. I would reckon that there are at least as many, if not more, "proper" UK civilians that blame the troops for everything including the weather. These are the people who have closed down the once superb medical facilities available to the armed forces because it is "cheaper" to just bung them into a mixed sex General Hospital ward.....as long as they are not wearing a uniform. These kind of people are more commonly known as politicians, NHS Beaurocrats, Labour Party "lefties" that actually hate the idea of an armed service of any sort and sundry others I'm sure you can come up with yourself. But top of the dung heap has to be the the "man" who was at the top, and his sidekicks including McAfferty. I think after 30 years in the RFA I'm entitled to my little rant! BY.
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If the tables were turned and the protest was in Afghanistan with English protesters protesting against Afghans / Iraqis, the police would have rounded them up and they'd probably be part of a motorway by now. Only in this country would this be allowed to happen. There's Democracy and there's taking the *i**. The only two arrested were supporters our soldiers. How scared is everybody of upsetting these minorities. I really do despair of the future of our once great country. <:( <:( <:(
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Topic renamed.
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Ok sirry but I did not see the news yesterday so what have I missed
Stav..feeling out of it
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If the tables were turned and the protest was in Afghanistan with English protesters protesting against Afghans / Iraqis, the police would have rounded them up and they'd probably be part of a motorway by now. Only in this country would this be allowed to happen. There's Democracy and there's taking the *i**. The only two arrested were supporters our soldiers. How scared is everybody of upsetting these minorities. I really do despair of the future of our once great country. <:( <:( <:(
I am saddened, but not surprised by the antics of those people. I love my country, but it went to the dogs, years ago and is the main reason, I left it. If you look at the figures, many good, hard working and decent people are leaving the country and generally being replaced by unemployable low lives......Rant Over...
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More pictures - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-parade.html
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...15238661?f=rss
http://bnp.org.uk/2009/03/muslim%E2%80%99s-luton-anti-army-protest-%E2%80%9Cportent-of-things-to-come%E2%80%9D/
http://www.fenlandcitizen.co.uk/late...ade.5057976.jp
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090310...20090310192754
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...A29%3A13%3A320
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Ok sirry but I did not see the news yesterday so what have I missed
Stav..feeling out of it
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7935049.stm
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This is DAMMED disgracefull and I bet half of the protestors wernt British at all <*<Send the blighters home I say and the others publicly flog thme
Stav
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The police were a lot to blame for this happening. They knew the protesters were there, so why didn't they round them up and shunt them 'nicely' into a side street where they could rant their hatred all day and no one could listen. The only thing the cops are good for is hanging gay pride flags from their buildings. Here's a little known piece of police ''doing their job'' info. Last week a cop car stopped a member of the public driving through the Mersey Tunnel, why? You won't believe this, he was laughing at something someone had said on his hands free phone. The police said he wasn't in complete control of his car !! He got pulled for laughing! I'm not anti police, but why don't they instil a little more confidence in the British public and do their job?
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They should never have allowed it to happen in the first place, but, that is against our laws is it not? Freedom to protest is allowed etc etc etc?
The question is, if they know that it is possible that a certain protest could possibly start trouble, why let it happen in the first place? All this will do is fire up those people who want a fight between how shall I put this?
OK, trying very hard not to be racist which I am not in any way.
It will fire up the people who have the right to call Great Britain their country and those who are here for a free ride, who should get sent right back to where they came from when they do something like this or anything against the host country. It happens elswhere, why not here?
Paul... >:-o
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Having done my time under the Light Blue Ensign.....I reckon we could do with a P.M. like Australia's
Quoting- Prime Minister Kevin Rudd Australia
Muslims who want to live under Islamic Shari law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:
'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '
'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'
'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'
'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'
'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'
'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'
Good demonstration of 'The Freedom of Speech'?
Makes you want to 'Up Sticks and head down under' doesn't it?
Rex
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I am not sure if Kevin Rudd is for or against the monarchy but he should get a knighthood. We do not have any politicians, any party with the b**** to say any thing close to that. Top man :-)) :-)) :-))
The people who insulted our servicemen are just scum, and not worth any more comment as it only encourages them to think that they are important.
Any serviceman past or present deserves our respect, if they are not prepared to give it, bye bye!! Go some place where offensive behaviour is acceptable.
Brian
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Servicemen serve their Country, they go where they are sent and they do their duty. That is their job and citizens must respect that and support them. The Luton demo was shameful. If you don't agree with what they are doing then your protest should be addressed to those who determine what they do - the politicians.
Having said that, Kevin Rudd definitely gets my vote!
Colin
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Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is leader of the Labor Party so, by default, he is against the monarchy as such, and favours a republic. That said, he is not a rabid republican, but simply follows the party line on the matter.
The subject of Muslims is a very touchy one here at present and, unfortunately, many peace loving Muslims are being unfairly treated as a result of the actions of a few fanatical radicals.
Kevin Rudd's statement, as quoted by Rex Hunt, expresses perfectly the feelings of the overwhelming majority of Australians. You chose to come here, if you don't like it, go home.
Peter.
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This government seem to be hell bent on passing laws for just about everything, why not pass a law which says you may not disrespect our armed forces, especially in public. We keep having little bits of our freedom nibbled away in just about every way imaginable, why not take away the freedom to disrespect the armed forces, they represent our country and our flag (which we cannot even fly where and how we want). The behaviour exhibited today is an example of 'too much fredom' and in this area, I believe it should be removed for the sake of the dignity and pride of our soldiers.
Whether you agree or not with the action abroad is neither here or there since the services are at the bidding of the government of the day. Demonstrations such as this should be forbidden and if permitted at all, should be made outside Downing street, not at war weary veterans who have just been to hell and back.
Stupid country and insane times we're living in these days Men!!
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The way things are going here now I would be on the next plane/ship to OZ or NZ. how I wish we had a Labour politician the callabour of Kevin Rudd. So, can anybody out there give me a job please?
As an aside to Gastons comment, I think only fair to popint out that it was not the "real" plod who pulled that driver over but Mersey Tunnel Plod i.e. the failures, unable to meet the entry standards of the "real" Merseyside Police, thus making them 4th rate plods, behind plastic plods even.
LB
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Kevin Rudd is completely right with his comments and it is time we as a country started to
follow this example.
It does not help when the BBC's Question time has that stupid :-X Shami ????? from 1 of these liberty groups
spouting off every second week appearing to degrade this country and OUR way of life claiming civil liberties are being breached
and these religious organisations/ councils on the TV telling everyone how we must change to allow there members to feel more at home
in a foreign country
I believe in freedom of speach but don't come to this country and expect it to change it's laws for you,
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The way things are going here now I would be on the next plane/ship to OZ or NZ. how I wish we had a Labour politician the callabour of Kevin Rudd. So, can anybody out there give me a job please?
As an aside to Gastons comment, I think only fair to popint out that it was not the "real" plod who pulled that driver over but Mersey Tunnel Plod i.e. the failures, unable to meet the entry standards of the "real" Merseyside Police, thus making them 4th rate plods, behind plastic plods even.
LB
i stand corrected, cheers
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I see a summer of discontent.
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I see a summer of discontent.
I see a very interesting General Election, when it happens.
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to tell you the truth I cant see anything changing as the court of human rights in Brussels wouldnt allow itfor a start things will keep going down the roads that they are till we are saying prayers at 5 in the morning facing east
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to tell you the truth I cant see anything changing as the court of human rights in Brussels wouldnt allow itfor a start things will keep going down the roads that they are till we are saying prayers at 5 in the morning facing east
I'm not getting up at 5 in the morning for anyone!
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Like many on here, I've served my Country & am very proud of the fact that I am ENGLISH.
It's true, we open our doors to all & sundry looking for a better life & then put up with hand wringing liberals telling us how we should change to accommodate them.
But lets be honest, it's not just our immigration problem that's the issue, there is a basic lack of respect & honour in this once fine land of ours that is home grown.
Just look around at the Dole drawing, work shy chav's & scumbags in every town & city to see what I mean. Then, have a look at where (by that I mean who) have spawned them & you get an idea of just how deep the problem goes.
But there is hope! I look at those people who are currently serving & see that there is still decent people who we can be proud of out there & as long as we continue to support them then the scum will always be that & not become the norm'.
As for the issue in Luton, what do you really expect? this must be one of the most heavily Asian / Muslim populated areas in the country & I dont care what anybody says, Racism works BOTH ways.
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Just because the protesters aren't white, doesn't mean they weren't born here. Therefore as most of you seem to want to "send them back", that's going to be a suburb of Luton.
I agree that the protest should be directed against politicians though. They have every right to make it (that's one of the things that makes our country great) but you should at the people who decided on the action, not at the poor guys who have to actually go and get thier hands dirty. Perhaps though they prefer shouting at the troops, who are disciplined enough to ignore them, and not at MP's where they will come to the attention of the various Police protection squads.
Of course the Police were taking lots of photos and video. It might be that some of those with placards are even now being checked out by a freindly MI5 operative who might just turn something over in thier past...
Phil
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I thought it was Peter Costello, not Kevin Rudd who made the statement quoted by Rex Hunt.
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Can't get the tar brush out Turbulent, cos we both know of "Indiscretions" by members of the forces, the Scottish version of the Sun (uGGGGGh) seems to cover whats wrong with todays submariners. Not ALL benefit receptors are lazy dossers etc. Unfortunately "The system" is never in a state of balance, the pendulum is either hard to the right or hard to the left and sadly the extremes are classed as the norm. Racism DOES exist on both sides, the difference being, if WE protest against the Muslim extremists WE are being racist and could be subject to prosecution by the RRB, reverse the situation and we live in a multicultural society so we have to accept the other day's events as the price we pay to live in a society that goes to great lengths to defend the "Free" speech of all other groups irrespective of colour or creed, over its "Indigenous" population. Send them back?? If you were in a blindfold situation you would be hard pressed to tell from the voices that they weren't "English" Skin colour has and should have NOTHING to do with the argument, BUT if you're going to discriminate for one extreme posture, the same should apply to ALL extremes.
Quite a few years ago, the police banned and stopped a march through Bradford by a white extremist "Political" group. The riots that followed started by the challenge of "others" who found one or two of the Extremists having a pint in a pub. Strange how this one never seems to surface, WHO actually started the "Riot".
The "Protest" in Luton should not have been allowed as the expression on one of the young lads faces summed up his day of thanks from his homeland on his return. He looked rather sad and shook his head on the marchpast.
Regards Ian.
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Just for the record, I have no issue with anybody coming to live & work in my Country, I do however,believe they should have to pre qualify (possibly a term in the Army?)
My issue is with all the free loaders no matter what their creed - scum is still scum whatever it's colour.
The Irony is that without our armed forces past & present you wouldnt have the freedom of speech we enjoy - I've had the pleasure of being called a war Criminal & a murderer by those who know nothing of the world - not fanatical muslims but Students, so yes I do know how that lad feels & it makes my blood boil.
Please enlighten me, what's wrong with today's Submariners?
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PLEASE TAKE CARE.
This topic is rather overheated and prone to the use of highly denigrating expressions and sweeping generalisations, few of which do much to extend our knowledge or understanding of the issues raised.
Please try to ensure all contributions are expressed with decorum no matter how strongly the sentiments are declared. It is possible to set out your strongly held views without resorting to name calling and insults. It is good to have clear, strongly held opinions but only when they are expressed cogently.
The Moderators do not want to have to lock the topic or heavily moderate it.....but we will if it becomes necessary.
Roger in France
Moderator
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Roger, reading the threads, it seems contributers have controlled themselves with utmost decorum and have stopped short of name calling, i think because of worries of having the blog locked and upsetting the minorities (as usual). I think the freedom of speech should come into this allowing bloggers to express their feelings, whatever colour or nationality, otherwise it will go down the same road as the things we've been talking about, other people can say what they want, but we can't. I'm sure mayhemers know when not to over step the mark and shouldn't need to be told beforehand. I don't think the Taliban etc will be too upset when they read these blogs.
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Agreed - after all it's not like we're burning flags or anything!
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Perhaps before sweeping statements and generalisations by some Moderators, an explanitory P.M. could be sent to the members they are becoming unhappy with?? :-)) O0
BEST Regards Ian.
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So far I have seen nothing 'Racist' on here........
What has been said is equally applicable to all who wish to enjoy the freedoms of living in Britain,
And of being treated as being British, without any thought to the feelings and rights of the ethnic BRITISH people.
I don't care much whether someone comes from Africa, greater Europe, The 'Eastern Bloc' America, the Colonies or Dominions.............All I ask is the right to live in a society that is not biased in it's 'views, and application of so called 'rights', against the original / traditional members of that society,
regardless of race, colour or creed.
I am ENGLISH but mustn't say so........it is OK to be Scottish ,Welsh or Irish, but not English.
I cannot fly MY countries flag...The cross of St. George because it may offend the non English, but it is ok to wave it at football matches because that is non jingoistic!
I cannot even get a late night pint on the night celebrating St Georges Day BUT I can have a late night party on St Patrick's Day!
Just asking for a little consideration band redress of the balance.
As usual 'Our Troops' are doing the will of the 'so called' Democratically elected suits who sit in the comfort and safety of Westminster (never getting cold/hot/wet/hungry/dirty/shot at/ abused etc....
And when they come home from a spell away from their families and loved ones....what do they have to suffer?
Abuse.
I suppose the only other answer is to do just as it seems...most of our alleged allies are doing....and keep out of it!
Oh and yes I was proud to serve my Queen and Country in the Non-declared war zone of Northern Ireland, and in the South Atlantic protecting the freedom and rights of minorities!
Rex
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Well said Rex ,I agree completely...........Smudge
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If I went to another country would I be allowed to demand changes in the laws and custom of that land ?
No
So why when others come here for a "better life" do they want is to change to their customs and traditions
of the land they have just left because it was not good enough {:-{
When you look at these scum bag clerics demanding that the whole of Islam rise up against the west I feel
sorry for people I know well who are Muslim and then are tarnished with this brush. 1 of these has VERY
traditional views and fits the old stereotype parents wear "the pyjamas", females say nothing and travel in the
back of the vehicle males at the front and they own a corner shop.....His ambition to fly in the RAF
and serve the country his parent's taught him is his to protect and to serve....Britain (he is 2/3rds of the way there O0)
The fact is we all complain and moan about the state of affairs of the country, the amount of servicemen
being killed over seas and we are entitled to our bit of moans and groans and to protest PEACEFULY but
The people who we should be hounding out are those who were at the the Luton incident the extremists
who show no respect to this country and do nothing but abuse it and demand that we change our laws
so that it fits them and what they want regardless of the what the MAJORITY want.
one thing we do not do is turn on those who are willing to serve this country.
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It does seem rather strange that, given that Luton is known to have a very large ethnic minority some of whom will have friends and relatives abused by USA/UK troops abroad, why was that selected as a suitable place to parade returning troops.
It's a bit like certain religious parades in Northern Ireland insisting on going down the 'other side's' street or the National Front wanting to rally close to immigrant areas.
That leads me to the conclusion that perhaps it was the government or other underhand influences in the UK wanting to 'stir it' a bit to deflect attention in the press from the ecenomic woes.
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Hmmmmm must be mistaken but I thought Luton was in Bedfordshire , ENGLAND, in that bit known as East Anglia, and weren't the troops from the Anglian Regiment so having affinity to that area?
Or have I missed something?
'Nuff said'
I dare not add any more to this topic or it might be seen as not P.C.!
Rex
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interesting General Election
I never thought I'd see those 3 words in the same sentence. :D
On a more serious note, this was 20 Muslim protesters doing nothing illegal while they were being abused by BNP thugs, some of whom were arrested and also by the general public. Whether you think they are wrong or right to voice their fundamentalist views is your personal opinion, I'm pretty sure how most of the UK public feel about it and I agree with them, BUT what concerns me more is how it's all being blown out of all proportion once again by the media, what are they trying to stir up.
I served in the forces like many others and I'm absolutely certain that if I'd been abused like that by such a mob I really wouldn't have given a flying #*$# about it.
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So far I have seen nothing 'Racist' on here........
What has been said is equally applicable to all who wish to enjoy the freedoms of living in Britain,
And of being treated as being British, without any thought to the feelings and rights of the ethnic BRITISH people.
I don't care much whether someone comes from Africa, greater Europe, The 'Eastern Bloc' America, the Colonies or Dominions.............All I ask is the right to live in a society that is not biased in it's 'views, and application of so called 'rights', against the original / traditional members of that society,
regardless of race, colour or creed.
I am ENGLISH but mustn't say so........it is OK to be Scottish ,Welsh or Irish, but not English.
I cannot fly MY countries flag...The cross of St. George because it may offend the non English, but it is ok to wave it at football matches because that is non jingoistic!
I cannot even get a late night pint on the night celebrating St Georges Day BUT I can have a late night party on St Patrick's Day!
Just asking for a little consideration band redress of the balance.
As usual 'Our Troops' are doing the will of the 'so called' Democratically elected suits who sit in the comfort and safety of Westminster (never getting cold/hot/wet/hungry/dirty/shot at/ abused etc....
And when they come home from a spell away from their families and loved ones....what do they have to suffer?
Abuse.
I suppose the only other answer is to do just as it seems...most of our alleged allies are doing....and keep out of it!
Oh and yes I was proud to serve my Queen and Country in the Non-declared war zone of Northern Ireland, and in the South Atlantic protecting the freedom and rights of minorities!
Rex
Thank you Rex,
Since this news broke I've been trying to compose a suitable comment but kept getting rather hot under the collar !!
You have managed to put my feelings clearly and concisely
Regards
longshanks
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Nice one Rex - you've hit it spot on mate.
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Hi Guys going to try and be careful here but as ex army that is going to be very hard.
The demonstration was approved by the police before hand and the police were there to protect the demonstrators.
Does this mean the police aided and abetted a criminal offence I don't know. What I do know is that as a non Muslim I would not be allowed to stand outside a mosque and shout anti Muslim slogans. Plod would not protect me he would arrest me. THAT and THAT alone is cause for complaint. FREE SPEECH works both ways.
As to the demonstrators themselves they must be as thick as a short planks. The vast majority of killings in Iraq are Muslim on Muslim, sect versus sect. Sunni versus Shia. These cowards are the real butchers and baby killers.
As to the English born Muslims who feel this way, help them out with a one way ticket to a country which holds to their views.
To Roger, when you say moderators do you Roger In France? I ask because Martin as read at least some of this thread and as seen fit to allow it to carry on.
Colin H.
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Martin even re named it, there has been no shall we say "slagging off" creed or colour here.
The issues have been stated and for one I am sick of bending over backwards to accomodate these types of people, THIS IS GREAT BRITAIN, "OUR" laws, get used to it, we would have to where ever we go in your home country.
One of my mates is from Bangladesh, he is a Muslim, he is not happy about what happened at all.
So like many have said, kick em out if they don't like it here even if they were born here. Alliegence to the flag and all that.
Paul... >:-o >>:-( <*<
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I was born in Luton and spent over 30 years living there. I am not a racist and believe most living there are not. More recently I actually find it strange when i go there that there are white people in the town who arent talking english (east europeans), its quite normal to hear asian languages spoken there. When it was orginally built the mosque there was the largest in europe, so yes Luton has a very high Muslim population.
What really P*&^%d me off a number of years ago in the lead up to St Georges day it was announced they would not be flying the Flag of st Geaorge from the twon hall on that day, as had been normal practice. The town council had a large percentage of muslim members, which was fair enough, and they pointed out they felt the Flag was anti muslim and celebrating a religious day. If the flag was to be flown then . they wanted muslim religious emblems and flags to be flown on the appropriate days. This of course would have menat about 10 or more days of flying their emblemns compared to one day for St George and so it was decided not to fly the flag after all.
I'm not a religious person but this is just a joke.
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I am once again, deeply saddened by reading this thread. Yes I do agree with most of what has been said and I applaud Rex for putting across the views of many so well. The answer lies in the ballot box and the curbing of the damned media, which stirs up trouble whenever it can. The media is even responsible in a large part for the poor economic position. Do we really need to know every time a company goes to the wall or the financial figures are not good. All this does in dent confidence. If they would shut up, confidence will slowly drift back into the market and aid recovery....
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Good Grief footski, you can't say things like that, that's far too sensible.......... :police:.........Smudge
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One thing I could never understand was why some
immigrants were ever let in this country at all, in my
opinion any one who wishes to move to and live in
this country should be able to speak the language that
is used in that country, I have met migrants who have
lived here for fourty years, and still cannot understand
or speak english.
I have nothing against any nationality but whatever you
are if you intend to move to another country you should
not be accepted into that country until you can use the
language that is spoken, and the same should apply to any
one from here going to live anywhere else..............
Roy
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Did anyone see Question Time last night, Baroness Warzi (I think thats how you spell it) herself a muslim made some very good points. She used some of the same language and expressed most of the sentiments that has been used and made on this thread.
The best bit was when she took on some muslim males in the audience `most unusual in the religion` boy the look on their faces was something to behold.
If only there were more people like her I am sure we could all swing along together.
Colin H.
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Sorry guys, it might be just me, but, we should not let this topic slip down the list.
Paul... %)
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All this attention is giving them exactly what they want <:(
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So saying nothing, is doing what exactly? :o
Paul... <*<
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If they do not want to go back to their "home-land" for whatever reason, though no freedom of speech springs to mind, (also I seem to of heard somewhere that our soldiers are fighting there to try to make the places a little bit safer? I may be wrong though).
Plus they can not be deported (against their yuman rights innit), and as it seems that they hate this country so much (but not the benefit system - strange that), why not give them their own little place of Paradise?
One of them is still part of the British Isles.
Two places spring to mind:-
Gruinard and/or Bikini island. Germs attract germs.
Ron.
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Gruinard clean now a wee corner of Porton Down
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Gruinard clean now a wee corner of Porton Down
Don't tell 'em!
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I hear on the radio today that some MP has called for a ban on demonstrations and actions disrespecting our military! Do you think he could possibly be looking in on Mayhem occasionally??
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Either that or he is a member of a site I am on ,this one has been quite tame compared with discussions there
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I agree with a lot of sentiments here, if you come to "our contry", GREAT BRITAIN (not England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, but the whole of the UK. Then respect our laws/culture/service men and women . We are trying to give your kindred a safe and economical future to build on as we have in all our history that the politicions feel fit to get involved in. You should not come here to bring your laws and culture but to get a better life. If we can give it, then let us. But I keep watching this thread O0 and really want to comment, on our sacrifice to accomplishing this. I have departed friends in IRA conflict, 1st Gulf war, 2nd Gulf war and now Afghanistan. Just to give others a better life. PEOPLE SHOULD LEARN, AND THEN GIVE RESPECT. I think these protesters lack Respect and it's up to us to give and then to teach it.....Ignorance is the biggest evil, and I think these protesters are just ignorant. O0 O0
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MAybe ignorant or misguided but should as you say live by our ways as we would be expected in these countries
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The right to protest is one which we need to uphold at all cost even if some abuse this privilege.
Can I make one point however?
The if they want to come to GB they have to follow our rules mob.
"If they come to our country they have to learn our language" is a nonsense how many ex army lads among you learned the language on tour in Hon Kong , Burma, India or the construction workers in Saudi or the UAE. or the pensioners off to Spain to drink warm beer in the Dog and Duck while watching fools and horses for the 50th time
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Quite a good article in "The Sunday Times" today saying what fools these protestors are and that they do their causes no favours. It also suggests we should all laugh at the more bizarre stances some of them take.
There was also a fascinating video on the BBC Web Site the other day with a cleric saying that mice are the agents of Satan and should be destroyed. He went on to say that " Tom and Gerry" set a bad example to children and that Mickey Mouse should be exterminated! I don't think it was a spoof but it certainly had me laughing.
Of course I accept that many extreme points of view can be threatening and dangerous and some should be prohibited but I also think a good dose of derisory laughter is an approch we can all adopt, every day.
Roger in France
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The right to protest is one which we need to uphold at all cost even if some abuse this privilege.
Can I make one point however?
The if they want to come to GB they have to follow our rules mob.
"If they come to our country they have to learn our language" is a nonsense how many ex army lads among you learned the language on tour in Hon Kong , Burma, India or the construction workers in Saudi or the UAE. or the pensioners off to Spain to drink warm beer in the Dog and Duck while watching fools and horses for the 50th time
"If they come to our country they have to learn our language" is a nonsense" If People emigrate here and stay for, lets say 5-10 years, it would be a comman courtesy. Don't you think???? If I went abroad, the first thing I would learn is basics. I would not like ripped off, cause lets face it. There are people everywhere in the world, that will take advantage of a wounded bird. O0
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Sure would be common courtesy but I repeat how many English learn the language when overseas?
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Why do people insist on putting black writing on a red background ?
If you are colour blind you cant read it. >>:-(
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Hmmmmm must be mistaken but I thought Luton was in Bedfordshire , ENGLAND, in that bit known as East Anglia, and weren't the troops from the Anglian Regiment so having affinity to that area?
Or have I missed something?
'Nuff said'
I dare not add any more to this topic or it might be seen as not P.C.!
Rex
For the benefit of non UK residents it is worth noting that Luton is a very long way from East Anglia which rather proves my point.
It has clearly worked very well in diverting attention from the ecenomic incompetance of the government for a few days so we should look forward to some more such parades in Bradford, Leicester, and Southall whenever they want some suitable headlines.
This is very appropriate use of the military whose purpose is not primarily to fight foreign wars. Their actual function is to bolster the power base of the Govenment and so if it suits the govenment to divert attention by stiring up local racial hatred then that is what they will be used for.
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What a total difference to the US attitude though.
The military are respected in the ports I have visited and talking to US servicemen none would expect to have to take their uniforms off before leaving the base.
Also you can fly the flag with PRIDE and it is expected.
Something of an opposite situation here.
My main concern now is with all the major parties being oh so PC where does this leave the non-PC patriotic voter?
Straight in the arms of the "New" BNP, they already have a handful of councillors.
Bob
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Define non-patriotric voter please.
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nope.
Bob
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Reply says it all.
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What a total difference to the US attitude though.
The military are respected in the ports I have visited and talking to US servicemen none would expect to have to take their uniforms off before leaving the base.
Also you can fly the flag with PRIDE and it is expected.
Something of an opposite situation here.
My main concern now is with all the major parties being oh so PC where does this leave the non-PC patriotic voter?
Straight in the arms of the "New" BNP, they already have a handful of councillors.
Bob
Although the US did have to go through a phase where the Vietnam vets were a pariah. And they have come out the other side of this now.
I also think 9-11 had a huge impact on the American psychology, that may also have helped to change sentiments towards their military.
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Define non-patriotric voter please.
I would say that I would fall in this group.
Anybody who knows me would agree I'm not the most PC person you'll ever meet, but I am Patriotic, I've served my country & even now given the opportunity would gladly do so again, I stand up for all that makes us great & against the things for which we should be ashamed.
I will Fly a St Georges or Union Flag from my home if I wish, I will vote for who I think is best for England, regardless of Party, if you dont want to be a part of my country & embrace the way we are & support men & women who have more bravery & integrity than most, "xxxxx" off home.
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Slight problem arises with the "Law of the land" theory, in that WE are still having to live down the remnants of "Empire" Seem to remember that WE imposed our own rules and regs on the various parts of the world that we infested under the banner of Empire. We did some quite naughty things at times and I wonder if the "I was only following orders" excuse that has been dished out so many times from defeated parties would have been used if the situations had been reversed.
Yes MCR, when I've been abroad I've tried to use the local language albeit broken and NOT doing the English trait of SHOUTING to make oneself understood, it's a matter of common courtesy. Well it is to ME anyroad.
Don't worry about the "Protest" vote Bob, after the initial shock, the "Normal" parties gang up on that other one and choose "Not to recognise them" and do their own thing regardless. You need a CONTROLLING council of "The others" to make any difference so it ain't going to happen. It certainly makes them sit up though, did in Bradford.
We've had a bit of a flurry again and now the main point of conversation will settle down to smokescreens like 50P/unit of alcohol and why we're NOT going to implement it, do I smell an impending election???
Regards Ian.
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MAybe ignorant or misguided but should as you say live by our ways as we would be expected in these countries
Although I totally agree with you, we should not forget that when we had an "Empire" the Brirish dressed and acted completely "British" and took no notice whatsoever of the sensibilities of the local inhabitants. And don't think that attitude was a long time ago. It certainly prevailed well into the 1970s. Although the "Americans Abroad" were even more "crass", I'm not surprised that we are "disliked" in some quarters. Cheers. BY.
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Sure would be common courtesy but I repeat how many English learn the language when overseas?
I for one and all the expats that I know here. I chose to live in Sweden (about 20 years ago) and as such I learnt the language once I got here. Have English friends in Holland who speak Dutch, in Denmark who speak Danish. Having learnt the language I was employable, before that my (now) wife had to support me.
There is a difference to overseas "visiting" and overseas "living" but even when I was doing my "travelling the world" bit I always tried to have the basics, please, thank you, hello, goodbye, basic foodstuffs and a few other phrases for the countries I was in.
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On the point of language acquisition.
There is a huge difference between being able to survive in a language (please, thank you, how much does it cost, where is the toilet) and being fluent.
Yes some people are fluent, and they are the exception. People who are good at learning languages, forget that not everybody finds it easy, or even possible. Those expats who speak other languages are usually (not always) educated professionals who are good at languages.
Most immigrants to the UK are economic refugees. They are not highly educated, and many are unlikely to ever be fluent in English.
An old expats joke.
Q. What do you call a person who is fluent in 2 languages?
A. Bilingual.
Q. What do you call a person who is fluent in 3 languages?
A. Trilingual.
Q. What do you call a person who is fluent in many languages?
A. Multilingual.
Q. What do you call a person who is fluent in only one language?
A. English.
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You have to ask yourself why the Brits are not so flexible when it comes to learning other languages. I know several of my countrymen who are fluent in other languages, they are either well travelled and spent a fair bit of time in these other countries or are simply fairly adept at learning them and have been interested in the language. Many of my European friends can speak the language of the countries which border them.
For instance, my German friends can speak Swiss, French and some Italiain, this is mainly because they can visit these countries as easily as I can travel from Norfolk to suffolk or london and they can simply go there for the day out like we might go to the seaside. Over time, they become familiar due to exposure, something we as Brits do not have the ability to do and as a lot of tourists visiting Britain have been taught English in school, they tend to be able to communicate much easier when here.
I have visited and worked for a short time in Germany, it did not take long to begin to pick up the language as i was continually being exposed to it daily and was forced to try to communicate as a lot of the older people i encountered did not speak English. It is all down to exposure. Here in England, we are not given the same level of exposure so tend not to practice it on a daily basis.
I wonder how many other countries could be critised in the same way as we are. I wonder if for example, the Australians, New Zealanders, Icelandics or any other countries surrounded by the sea are as flexible in other languages as the Europeans are.
it's all down to frequency of exposure in the end and by nature, we are insulated from it to quite a degree.
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Hi Sheerline.
I take the opposite view.
People who are naturally adept at language tend to thrive in these environments. So they are more comfortable seeking them out, once exposed for the first time.
Those who exposed and then struggle/fail, tend not to go back for a second helping. So you won't find them flitting across Europe for work or pleasure.
You may be one of those lucky people who are naturally good at languages, and not realise that others will always find it hard, because you find it natural.
Its a bit like the fresh accountancy graduates who cannot work out how anybody could possibly get into debt. Only after they have been out there for a while do they realise that some are more numerate than others.
Or the computer geek who cannot understand why some people can not do the basics. And perhaps why other want to beat the carp out of them.
I lived in Germany for 4 years and struggled getting past survival German, even though I did night classes. I have lived in China for 5 years, and have had many lessons, including 9 months full time study. My wife and mother in law are Chinese, my mother in law speaks no English. Most Chinese speak no English so I am fully immersed.
I am still struggling to get past the basics.
We all have talents, but they are often very different.
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I know Brits that struggle with English - But I do live in Norfolk!! :}
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Well, ok guys, maybe I haven't got it quite right but it was just the way i see it. Perhaps it may be due to the fact that these Europeans are exposed to it from a very early age, at a time when young minds are open and flexible. I did however meet a lot of Germans, mostly the older ones, who I might add were very charming folks but did not have a grasp of any English at all. It was those encounters which forced me to adjust to them rather than expect them to fit in with me. I was afer all, in their country and as a matter of courtesy and respect, I tried my damndest to make myself understood. More than i can say for some folks living here!! Imight also add that we had a lot of fun trying to understand each other and you do feel like you have been struck totally dumb at times, you just stnd there staring at each other then burst out laughing... thats a definate universal language.
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I wonder if for example, the Australians, New Zealanders, Icelandics or any other countries surrounded by the sea are as flexible in other languages as the Europeans are.
Speaking for Australians, the answer is, definitely not. Because of our geographic isolation most Australians only speak English, or a form of it ok2 . I would venture to suggest that most Australians who do speak another language are either immigrants, or of recent ethnic origin.
I think it's fair to say that most English speaking people do not speak another language, mainly because we have no need to. English has become the common language in many countries, so we can communicate in most places on earth.
Peter.
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High peter, you hit the nail on the head there. English certaily has become a universal language and it's true what you say.