Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: Mr_Fid on June 05, 2009, 07:55:35 pm

Title: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 05, 2009, 07:55:35 pm
That looks really nice, you have done a fantastic job.

I too am building a Fairey Huntsman, allthought i have to admit i think the plans got a bit messed up as it looks a little different to yours!
I have put a few pictures so you can compare.

See you soon!

(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5844.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5845.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5846.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5848.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5849.JPG)
Title: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 05, 2009, 08:11:12 pm
Isn't that an OPS 90 in there?

I notice the servo horns on the winglets inbetween the forks, are they going to be servo driven? That would probably be a good idea when it gets windy, they do like to flip.
Title: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 05, 2009, 09:33:08 pm
Hello
I have made the wings adjustable (front and rear) but not via servos.
i have in the past also found that at speed they can fly and that is why i have good sized wings on the front.

The pictures below are of the Winstone Eagle and that was very fast (CMB 90) however that used to really fly!

And water does damage at 70+ mph!

(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/fast01.jpg)

(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/small.jpg)
Title: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 05, 2009, 10:56:24 pm

And water does damage at 70+ mph!


You're telling me that??

It is a OPS 90 in there isn't it

(http://modelboatracing.co.uk/photos/topshots/Hydros.jpg)
Title: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: The long Build on June 05, 2009, 10:58:53 pm
Bit of super-glue should sort that out  :}
Title: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 06, 2009, 12:16:49 am
Bit of super-glue should sort that out  :}

And this one?

(http://modelboatracing.co.uk/photos/topshots/dries1.jpg)
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 06, 2009, 07:26:08 am
Hello
Yes it’s an OPS 90. I normally use CMB's so it’s a new one for me and as yet haven't managed to get it running! Hopefully my boat will be ready for next week.

I only posted my pictures as a wind up to Ramon, as we are patently waiting for the arrival of his boat down our club! And I promised him I would post my pictures to hurry him up!

Regards Martin
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Ramon on June 06, 2009, 10:07:10 am
Nice try Martin! and well spotted Tiger Tiger.

Looking forward to that secret testing, I'm as anxious as you probably are having seen the pic of the Eagle but roll on Wednesday.

The boat looks really good  :-)) :-)) - a real 'free spirit' paint job too and if it goes like your yellow mono then I'll bring the vallium! %%

To others reading this I'd just like to mention that Martin and his boating buddies have made me very welcome indeed at the water inspite of the fact that as yet I haven't arrived down there with anything to sail. but itis coming guy's I promise you. So thanks for all your help, advice, ribbing, sorry I mean encouragement and friendship I will be 'active' before too long.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 06, 2009, 07:22:35 pm
As far as I remember the OPS 90 is a good engine, but the best 90 size engine I've come across so far is the PIP A-90, 10% faster than a CMB, much, much, much ,much cheaper, and has an extra horsepower over the CMB.

Best of luck with it, looks like it will go well.
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: martno1fan on June 12, 2009, 06:38:35 pm
That looks really nice, you have done a fantastic job.

I too am building a Fairey Huntsman, allthought i have to admit i think the plans got a bit messed up as it looks a little different to yours!
I have put a few pictures so you can compare.

See you soon!



Thats a nice looking hydro is it your own design or from plans?whats the dimensions ive been looking for something similar for a zenoah for a while now.
Mart
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 15, 2009, 05:34:08 pm
Hello

The boat was made from plans from the late Roger Newton.

I use them only as a guide and redraw them to suit. and the top is totally freestyle!

Its based on the Miss Circus Circus. plan number 146G http://www.newtonmarine.com/plan_details.php?prodId=379&category=5 (http://www.newtonmarine.com/plan_details.php?prodId=379&category=5)

Good luck
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: martno1fan on June 15, 2009, 06:25:46 pm
Ahh good old Roger cheers ,might have a go later in the year but ive got too many projects at the moment.
Mart
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 21, 2009, 08:02:54 pm
Well it was a very nice day and the water was very smooth....

BUT... i had problems with the engine.
Basically i couldn't get the engine to idle (start engine, then as soon as you take the plug lead of it stalls) unless i leaned the mixture, then when i launched it boy did it go, but it was very very lean so i had to stop.

Can some one explain weather i need a hotter or colder plug??? Never could work that out.

Thanks
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: omra85 on June 21, 2009, 08:32:09 pm
Hi Martin
A "cold" plug has a thicker element than a "hot" plug, therefore the hotter the plug, the more easily it will ignite the fuel/air mix.
Great - we all use the hottest plugs! Unfortunately no! The thinner the element the quicker it will fail or burn away. So you have to achieve a compromise between "burnability" and durability.  This will depend on the design of your engine plus all the other factors - type of fuel, size of prop, length of pipe even the type of water!!
The numbering sytem on most plugs goes from low numbers being hot and high numbers being cold.
The fact that your engine cuts when you remove the glow lead would indicate, as you thought, that it is too rich AT LOW REVS. 
Don't forget though, that you have two needles - one for low revs (throttle almost closed) and one for main jet (throttle fully open).
You probably need to lean out (screw in?) the idle needle - to get the engine to tick over, but also richen (screw out) the main needle for full throttle as you say it is too lean. Try to set up your main jet before your idle screw as one may effect the other.
Bit of reference information here - http://home.intekom.com/modelboats/boat/tunepipe.html (http://home.intekom.com/modelboats/boat/tunepipe.html) (horrible background though :-)

Cheers
Danny
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 21, 2009, 10:00:09 pm
Hi danny

Thanks for your reply

Yeah i kind of worked it out that i need a hotter plug, i will get a selection of plugs for next weekend.

However this OPS engine only has the one main needle, so its a bit new to me.

Anyone had any luck with these engines on the original carbs?
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 21, 2009, 10:02:02 pm
The OPS will be twin needle, the second needle it hidden inside the throttle arm, it's a small screw, you will need a jewellers screwdriver or similar to adjust it.
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 21, 2009, 10:53:27 pm
Hello

Honestly the OPS90 only has one
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: omra85 on June 22, 2009, 01:52:39 pm
The servo operated arm connected to the remote needle at the side of the engine is for adjusting the main flow ie the throttle wide open setting.
Once you have it reasonably right (a bit rich) then you should be able to finely adjust it when the boat is moving at full throttle.

Almost all carbs have a second needle due to the fact that, when you start closing the throttle barrel, the airflow reduces but the fuel flow does not (or not in proportion anyway) causing the mixture to richen giving a lumpy tickover and eventually stopping.  The second needle acts to reduce the fuel flow proportionately to the airflow giving an even tickover as the barrel closes.
Very occasionally, this "fuel reducer" takes the form of a fine "V" slot on the barrel which restricts the flow as the barrel closes.  It is usually adjustable by a knurled end piece which rotates to increase or decrease the opening.  A similar method is sometimes used, where the spray bar in the carb venturi also has a "V" shaped slot and performs the same function.
Yet another method 'from the old days' is to have a fine "air hole" which is uncovered as the barrel closes, thus allowing more air in to stop the mixture richening.
If your carb has none of these (which I would find very surprising) then you are stuck with getting the main jet right and leaving the tickover to look after itself.  This will mean that you will probably need to launch quickly, open up, have your run and not start shutting down until you are ready to come in.  Judged correctly, you will be able to get the boat in to the bank before it cuts out.
It is not a method I would be happy with, for anything other than speed runs, as you would have no method of reliably slowing down for obstacles (eg. rescue boat) and then accelerating away.
A close up picture of your carb might give us some clues.
Cheers
Danny
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 22, 2009, 09:31:04 pm
Hello

You lot dont belive me!!!

The carb is mounted so the fuel enter the top, and the throttle link is on the bottom. the barrel is also free to rotate 360 degrees and doesn't go in or out, there isn't any little hole or small "V". In real terms i think it is called a Single Hole In Top carb (or "SH1T" for short)

I have made an adaptor so i can fit a CMB carb that might be the best way forward?

(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5924.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5925.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5926.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5927.JPG)
(http://www.fid-tech-ltd.com/forum/boats/tn_IMG_5928.JPG)

Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: omra85 on June 22, 2009, 10:09:09 pm
Hi Martin
Well, so much for OPS carbs - all or nothing  %)
I think you would have a hard job getting a good mid range, let alone tickover with that carb!
I can see where your 'name' for it came from - very accurate!
I have a VERY old Picco carb from a 40 which is also "single hole" and that was truly rubbish.

The bore looks surprisingly small for a 90, I'm guessing about 10mm (unless it's the size of your fingers  :o) so a change to a CMB carb would give advantages to top end speed as well.  The bore on my 90 and 91 are both 12.0mm - even my Picco 67's is 12mm!

Your adaptor will (presumably) be able to mount the new carb the "right" way, ie across the engine, allowing you to connect to, and adjust both needles.

Danny

Edit - just had a thought - if you're REALLY clever (ie much cleverer than me) you could "mix" the channels on your radio so that, as you close the throttle, the mixture would also reduce  :-))  It would take some setting up and as you changed mixture during a run, it would alter the slow end as well, but it might just be do-able  {:-{ {:-{
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 22, 2009, 11:30:25 pm
It's a hydro motor is it not? Therefore all it really needs is fast %)

I've got a single hole jobby on a plane, truly awful, try to harrier at low throttle and you've got a wonderful job of trying to land without tip stalling {:-{
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 23, 2009, 07:25:46 am
I will keep you up dated on this subject.....

I will try a few different plugs (hotter) and see if i can get a good run, but also the UK suppliers are going to get back to me with some help? So i will let you know the outcome.

Regards Martin
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: martno1fan on June 23, 2009, 08:06:25 am
It's a hydro motor is it not? Therefore all it really needs is fast %)

Nice one Andy  {-) your right on there,hydros dont need slow speed they need to rip  :-)).
Mart
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on June 23, 2009, 01:27:40 pm
All these hydro's being built is inspiring me, I'm going to try and get one of these Aquacraft Pickleforks on fleabay and put a geared .21 in it...

Do try changing plugs, this thing should be fast O0
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: ids987 on June 23, 2009, 04:02:27 pm
Just like the one I had - not a single needle to be seen - in the carb anyway.
Most of the OPS 40 and 60 carbs were very much like a smaller version of that - except that the main needle was built in.
I have heard one or two use a variation on the same name - some have been know to call them sh1t or bust carb's.
Seeing as the 40 and (I think) the 60 basically started out as control line engines, I guess a throttle control was overkill !
If you did want to use it "as is", it will need to be set up so that it appears to be very rich on the shore / stand. If it is rich enough, you will need to give it quite a lot of throttle and revs to keep it going, and probably keep working the throttle to keep the balance between over-revving and dying.
If you have a CMB 90 carb it should improve things a lot. CMB carbs are not the best, but considerably better.
The only question is whether the carb, needles, and spraybar will stand up to the vibration from the OPS 90. The OPS 90 is a real groundshaking engine - or at least the old ones were.
Can't wait to see the videos when you get it going properly - should be impressive.

Edit - just saw Danny's edit - with regards to mixing the throttle and Radio / Remote main needle. I think I have seen it done. Can't say much more than that though I'm afraid. I've never owned radio equipment with channel mixing built in....
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: martno1fan on June 25, 2009, 11:19:06 am
All these hydro's being built is inspiring me, I'm going to try and get one of these Aquacraft Pickleforks on fleabay and put a geared .21 in it...

Do try changing plugs, this thing should be fast O0
Andy have you seen these? his boats are usually good quallity and prices are exellent.
Mart
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/R-c-RC-Scale-Hydroplane-FRP-Racing-Boat-Swifter-Hull_W0QQitemZ290326592365QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item4398d03b6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1688%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/R-c-RC-Scale-Hydroplane-FRP-Racing-Boat-Swifter-Hull_W0QQitemZ290326592365QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item4398d03b6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1688%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on June 29, 2009, 12:27:09 pm
Update

I had a good play down the boat lake yesterday and didn't really get any further.

Basically the engine starts and runs well on idle, i had to change the plug for a hot plug ( Firepower plug 6 (Warm))to allow it to run very rich on idle but at least it starts and continues to run with the glow clip removed.

BUT when i opened it up it went like stink for about 5 seconds then stalled, surgesting it was still to lean on top end. so after several attempts and the best run being a partial throttle run i have given in with the OPS carb.

I have now fitted the CMB carb, which i have had to blank of the remote needle and use the OPS remote (couldn't be bothered to take engine out and modify the rails)

Unfortunately i had to take the radio box lid off and redo the throttle servo link, so i now need to redo the lid. But all being well i should be out for another run on Wednesday Evening.

I will keep you posted. 
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: ids987 on June 29, 2009, 02:06:37 pm
If it was running well on idle, out of the water - with the OPS carb, it was definitely too lean. A carb like that needs to be set so that it won't run below about half throttle out of the water. It will then clear out a bit in the water - due to the loading. I'm sure the CMB carb will make life a lot easier though.
Do check the plug. I won't even use the Model Technics Firepower plugs if they're given to me now. I had several myself, and know of more - where the seal has blown. Some of these even before the boat got in the water. In my case I ran a boat and it stopped suddenly. Brought it in, tried to start it - not much compression. Noticed the +ve pin in the middle of the plug was loose. Replaced it with another Firepower plug, and that one also failed in seconds. As mentioned, I know of others who had the same problem. I'm also pretty sure one of mine put shrapnel in the engine and caused some damage to the Piston / Liner. I since received a few Firepower plugs with some stuff I bought via eBay, and I just binned them - not worth the risk.

Do keep us posted !

Ian
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Ramon on June 30, 2009, 10:26:59 pm
Glad you mentioned this Ian, I have used MT Firepower with complete success in my control line engines but of course these were 'Hot end' plugs  at much lower rev bands - 8-10,000 rpm. Based on this I was obviously going to go down the same road again but shall take note of your warning. What plugs would you recommend as alternatives?

Hope you are on for tomorrow night Martin.

Regards - Ramon
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: omra85 on June 30, 2009, 10:37:29 pm
I, too have found Firepower worse than useless - tried them all from 3 to 7, the elements are pathetic!
Use Cipolla, Rossi or Novarossi 6 or 7, or McCoy 8 or 9. Good for revs and last a while.
You can get them from Dave or Ian (http://www.iansboats.co.uk/ (http://www.iansboats.co.uk/))
If this heat continues - use the higher numbers  :-))

Danny

Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Ramon on June 30, 2009, 10:48:27 pm
Thanks Danny, thats instant info at yer fingertips! and the really great thing about this forum.

Regards - Ramon

Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Mr_Fid on July 01, 2009, 10:10:09 am
i Used to use firepower plugs in 1/8 cars and always found them ok.

I will let you knnow how i get on with them in a boat engine.

Should be on for tonight for a test run, i will give you a shout (Ramon) when i get home
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: ids987 on July 01, 2009, 11:01:27 am
As usual, Danny's nailed it with the plug advice. For anyone shopping in North London, the Cipolla plugs are also available under the "308 Hobbies" (308 Holloway Rd - formerly HJ Nicholls) brand name. I'm not sure how the prices compare now - been a while since I've been in there. Their heat ratings are slightly different - with 9 being the hottest. A number 6 would probably be about the job for a OPS 67 or 90 with lowish nitro. Pete or Richard in the shop will always give good advice. Both of them have a lot of boating and boatracing experience.
I did hear talk that the seal problem with the Firepower plugs was a bad batch or batches. The problem causing it may have been solved, but personally I don't want to take the risk again. I don't think I kept a seal long enough to make a judgement on the elements, but I'll definitely take Danny's word for it.
You can sometimes pick up the McCoy plugs for relatively good prices on eBay. I was running the MC9s in my CMB45 and 90 for quite a while, but I've now gone back to a hotter plug in the 45. The one I'm using in my 45 at the moment is a "car" plug - either RB or Ninja branded. At the colder end of those generally used in 1/8th cars.
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on July 01, 2009, 01:11:13 pm
5 Rossi Plugs - £13.50 (if you can get them...)

http://www.nimrifmodels.co.uk/accessories.html
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: ids987 on July 01, 2009, 02:29:25 pm
5 Rossi Plugs - £13.50 (if you can get them...)

http://www.nimrifmodels.co.uk/accessories.html

It would be a good deal, but I don't think anything on that website has been updated in the last five++ years......
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: andyn on July 01, 2009, 02:47:52 pm
Good point, well made ;)
Title: Re: Mr Fids freelance 'huntsman'
Post by: Ramon on July 02, 2009, 10:42:51 pm
A summers evening at the water followed by a fish and chip supper what more could one ask for?

Just to show that Martin had a modicum of success last night here's the proof - not brilliant - just a bit too quick for the photographers reaction! but proof never the less.

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XuA0NMLYOxg/Sk0nlXEYMjI/AAAAAAAACMY/zclAwlgxWN4/s512/DSCN1532.JPG)

And quick it was even on half throttle

Here's power to your throttle finger Martin