Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Dry Dock / Shipyard: Builds & Questions => Pleasure boats, Sports, Race, Power and Leisure Boats: => Topic started by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 09:29:56 PM

Title: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 09:29:56 PM
Just aquired this boat, Don't know what it is, will look very nice when it's had a good tidy up. It currently has an old Taycol Comet in it, of which I know almost nothing about. My questions to the general assortment of Mayhemers are:

What is the hull?

What voltage should the motor be running on?

I'm hoping to run it on 3s Li-Po's but if the motor cannot take 11.1v, I'll have to run some 2s in it. We've had the motor chugging away happily on 12v in Bill's pond, the fish weren't happy but we do know it's a runner.

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/Wooden_Boat_3.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/Wooden_Boat_1.jpg)
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/Wooden_Boat_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: nemesis on June 18, 2009, 09:42:56 PM
if you are going to use this motor please put a load of capacitors on it, in the old days we used to wrap foil round the motor in an attempt to cut down the interference that it kicked out. Of course
the radios of the day did not have the resolution that we have today. It was single channel, on the
button, have fun
                        Nemesis
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Bill D203 on June 18, 2009, 09:49:34 PM
Told You Andy. The radio had a single push button control. It work witha clockwork or rubber band ESC unit. That was my very 1st radio set up that I had. O happy days one push for left and three for right.
But dose anyone know what voltage the motor will run on?? I did have it on 12 volts to test it and it was pulling 1.6amps no load. Any Idears???
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: nemesis on June 18, 2009, 09:59:29 PM
In the days of this motor the only batteries you could get were 6 & 12 volt, so take your pick.
What voltage does the motor sound happy on. Personally I would opt for 6volt, at least you will not
burn it out.
                       Nemesis
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 18, 2009, 10:08:54 PM
Actualy you had 2 volt accumalators as well so you could have a stack of those in there, although looking at the hull I would say it was running on 2 x 6 volt's. If I was you Andy take the motor out and stick it on e-bay because its a collectors item. Stick one of MMB's mototrs in on 12 volt will give it a nice speed (or you could stick your looney lipo's on it)

Warning----Cover up your fish pond Bill   :-))
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Bill D203 on June 18, 2009, 10:14:11 PM
Why Phil?????
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 10:25:13 PM
I want to keep the original motor in it, for nostalgia purposes. I was going to put the blower motor from giantspring in it, but seeing as the Taycol works, why bother?

The looney Li-Po's do look the part in it...
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Ghost in the shell on June 18, 2009, 10:27:05 PM
no andy, the loonly lipo's will be lost inside it
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 10:31:11 PM
Besides Phil, the more looney you get me going, the faster a boat you will have fired at you in the straight running ;)

Big Li-Po's Ghost...
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Vintage on June 18, 2009, 10:31:46 PM
Taycol "Comet" runs on 4.5 volt - 6 volt max  :-))

Won't last long on 12 volts I'm afraid.

Mark.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 10:32:26 PM
Hmmphh Can it be run on 7.2v buggy packs?
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Vintage on June 18, 2009, 10:43:34 PM
Wouldn't like to say - might be fine but the motor's definitely designed for 6 volt max. - will actually run fine on 4.5.

Can't you remove a cell & just run it on 6?

Nice boat btw  :-))
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 10:48:50 PM
Don't really want to go hacking packs apart, use them for other things. I suppose I could buy some Jellys for it, I'll see how it goes on 7.2 first, and air cool it.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 18, 2009, 10:58:43 PM
I've got a 6 volt jelly cell you can have Andy (save burning out the motor)
And as you're not using lipo's Bills fish won't end up as sushi (thats why you had to keep it covered Bill---you what Andy's like)
 :-))
Its a nice hull, perfect straight runner   {-) {-)
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 11:06:58 PM
I'll have to find an excuse to come down and see you then Phil, any straight running competitions or anything I can come and win for you soon? ;)
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Shipmate60 on June 18, 2009, 11:10:07 PM
You wont be able to use a modern ESC on this motor.
I cant remember why but do remember it is wound differently to modern motors.
I an sure someone on here will be able to explain why.

Bob
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 11:11:49 PM
We had it running proportionally on a Mtroniks 15 earlier.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 18, 2009, 11:15:55 PM
All or nothing with Andy Bob

I'll let you know the date Andy for the Regatta at Welwyn Garden City   :-))
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 11:19:01 PM
Great stuff, that's where the boat came from O0 Not in the fountain is it?
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 18, 2009, 11:21:41 PM
Stanbrough Lakes  ;)
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 18, 2009, 11:23:31 PM
Great stuff, I'll be there :-))
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Shipmate60 on June 18, 2009, 11:27:39 PM
Andy,
Did it reverse as a Taycol Torpedo motor I had wouldn't.

Bob
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Bill D203 on June 19, 2009, 08:47:28 AM
Come on Phil When is this do in WGC. I will try and make it as well.  %% %%
Re the comment " it will not work with a modern ESC. It dose , however it was only a forwards only unit. We are both power boat users why do want to go backwards????
Yes it is an old motor but at the end of the day it is still only a DC brush motor Simple stuff. As for the voltage? 4.5v -6v sounds about right to me. So with a modern ESC and a 7.2v pack as long as it is limited back it should be fine.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: roycv on June 19, 2009, 09:55:10 AM
Hi all, The Comet is one of the few Taycol motors with a permanent magnet so ESC's are OK.  The Star (4 1/2 - 6 volts) was another but this had a built in mechanical speed control, which adjusted the position of the brushes (and pressure) on the commutator.
There were also geared versions of the Comet.

Vintage has posted the voltage range but the motor is not powerful enough to run the boat shown.  The 4 1/2 volts to 6 volts motor designation would originally have utilised the 4 1/2 volt flash lamp battery or 2 x 3 volt cycle headlamp dry  batteries.
When I was in my teens I built a Feltra torpedo boat all balsa and 24 inches loa.  I used a Star motor with 2 x 4 1/2 volt dry batteries in series (9volts) and the boat planed, a rare sight in those days but the batteries lasted only 5 minutes or so!  Maybe just as well for the motor.

Expect power only to be 5 or 6 watts and at a low efficiency.  This is equivalent to a 385 on low volts.  When in use this boat did nothing but pootle along at a slow walking pace.

Either the boat needs a new more powerful motor or the motor needs a much smaller boat!

Nice to see a Comet though, there are not many around now and also great to see some old models being restored and brought back into use.

regards Roy
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 19, 2009, 01:21:52 PM
I'm thinking about scrapping the Comet idea and going for the blower motor after all, it's an easy enough change.

I'll have to look for something smaller for the Comet then, a little Lesro Sea Urchin should do it.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Shipmate60 on June 19, 2009, 01:31:09 PM
Andy,
If you want speed have a look a MMB's motor.
The one in Stavros's 49 inch Perkassa.

Bob
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 19, 2009, 01:48:41 PM
Would shake this thing to pieces, anyway I'm not after speed with this one, it's a pleasure cruiser jobbie
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: kiwimodeller on June 20, 2009, 12:28:28 PM
Roy is correct, the Comet is designed for 6v max and is not really up to performing well in a boat of this size but it would be nice to see it running in a suitable hull. I have run several Taycols of both the small and large series thanks to help from Roy and others on this and other forums. If you want to do it go to the Model Solutions Canada (one of the listings on the Traders page of this forum) and follow their suggestions on RFI suppression. It is the best article by far I have seen on stopping interference. http://modelsolutions.ca/articles.htm
Some of the other posts are correct in that some Taycols cannot easily be reversed with an ESC but it can be done and there are other posts that explain how. Hope this helps, Ian.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 20, 2009, 12:40:24 PM
I've decided to stick with the Taycol for now, I've cleaned and greased it and the shaft and now it happily purrs away. On 4v you can almost count the revolutions, if you blink you can see the prop stationary... On 7.2v however it chugs away nicely. I'm going to cool it with a couple of computer fans, one for drawing air in and one out, get a bit of a breeze going through the hull.

Will it need to be supressed on 27 meg? I'll give Mr. ACTion man a ring if it does.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: SteamboatPhil on June 20, 2009, 12:41:42 PM
Bob, Andy has seen one of MMB's motors up close at Wicksteed as I put one in a straight runner on 24v-------(and he had to catch it  {-) {-))

You could still use a MMB motor Andy, lots of torque on 6-12v   ;)
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 20, 2009, 10:43:10 PM
I'm not going for speed with this one at all, nice scale speed.

Spent most of yesterday with the Dremel re-shiney-ing the funnels and prop, they look very good now.

Got it running in the bath, on a Ripmax Xtra Air 14 ESC.

It will need one hell of a lot of lead to get it down to that waterline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN4Q7D9Sc58
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: kiwimodeller on June 21, 2009, 11:43:36 AM

Because it is an old motor with inefficient brush setup and open windings it needs suppression more than most but it is still possible to get it working well. Following the article I recommended and other info from forum members I ended up with a capacitor and resistor in series between the terminals, the same from each terminal to the frame of the motor and an earth wire from the frame of the motor to the propshaft tube. This made it go reasonably well but there were still a few glitches such as the motor would stop for a moment when the rudder was turned or the rudder would twitch when the throttle was altered. These were fixed by fitting the Ferrite Beads on to the power leads and the boat has gone well for the last couple of years. Hope this helps, Ian.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: roycv on June 21, 2009, 03:45:17 PM
Hi Andyn, Sea Urchin should be fine with a comet, you could then run on AA's maybe 5 to give 6 volts and hide them under the floor boards!
regards Roy
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: nemesis on June 25, 2009, 04:58:17 PM
just been reading a copy of Dec 2004 Model Boats & guess what, it had a big screed on the Taycol
Comet motor, two pages, also what could be the boat you have, a Marlin Marine Cruiser. Page nos
32,33 & 34. Hope that helps
                                      Nemesis
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on June 25, 2009, 05:24:23 PM
You couldn't scan it and send it to me could you please? My email is on my profile.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Circlip on June 25, 2009, 07:00:16 PM
The kit that appeared in the Taycol adverts at the time was the Veron Marlin, and the boat on page one defferably ain't one of those. Marlin has a front open cockpit, a central cabin separated from the rear deckhouse with an open "Stearing" cockpit, and the hull side elevation doesn't have a step.

    Regards Ian.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: nemesis on June 26, 2009, 10:29:03 PM
Dec 2004, page 32/33 Model Boats mag, a big screed on the Taycol comet & its geared partner.
Also a picture of a Veron launch which looks like yours, cheers
                                   Nemesis
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on August 09, 2009, 03:54:30 PM
Sanded it for about 5 hours, primed and painted with 2 coats so far of Plasticote. Another 2 to come tomorrow.

Picture not good sorry there's rubbish on my camera lens, can't find the cleaner...

(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll184/andyn_01/DSCN3770.jpg)
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 09, 2009, 04:30:33 PM
Looking good Andy!
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on August 09, 2009, 04:49:36 PM
Thanks Martin, shall rub it down with wet & dry and spray some more. Shall be up at Llanberis :-))
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: martno1fan on August 10, 2009, 08:29:39 AM
Looks nice Andy,one tip when using that plasticote be sure to laquer it as its not very hardwearing in my experience.Does give a nice finnish though,ive even used it on a cpl of my vees in the past.
Mart
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Martin [Admin] on August 10, 2009, 11:58:26 AM
Don't do a Martin and rush the finish Andy!  :((
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Peterm on August 10, 2009, 01:48:13 PM
Andy, if you decide to lacquer, do not use Humbrol, the two are not compatable.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on August 10, 2009, 02:48:00 PM
Laquering is the least of my problems at the moment im afraid :(( <:(

Just applied another thin coat without sanding it, it's all orange peeled. Thankfully it was a very little amount of paint so it'll sand off late tonight / early tomorrow morning, and I can respray late tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully it'll be ready for Llanberis. All because of my idiocy I'm afraid {:-{
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: martno1fan on August 10, 2009, 03:36:11 PM
I wouldnt worry too much about orange peel you can wet sand that all off later then laquer and compound buff the laquer when its done.Plasticote does have its own laquer but ive never tested it for nitro proofing or is it going to be electric power.
Mart
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on August 10, 2009, 03:39:39 PM
It's an old Taycol Comet leccy thing, I'll sand it down very late tonight and respray late tomorrow afternoon. Not too worried about it really it'll sand out. Still it's a right kick in the nuts to see something that was an absolutely perfect finish yesterday pretty much ruined today {:-{
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: martno1fan on August 10, 2009, 04:57:40 PM
We all make mistakes and or have things go wrong,imaging the feeling after you have spent a day waxing a mould then buffing it up to a perfect shine.Then painting on 3 coats of gelcoat and laying your resin and mat,then waiting another 12-24 hrs before pulling the moulding only to find there's small pinholes here and there in what would otherwise be a perfect moulding now thats a right kick in the crown jewels  >>:-(  ;).I went through that process a few times before i got the process riight and it can be very disheartening,don't worry too much about it you will get there in the end just keep at it mate.
Mart
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on August 11, 2009, 12:20:12 PM
Well I sanded it right back yesterday and just sprayed again. It peeled again, but only under the bows. The rest of it looks alright, I'll sand back the bows and sort them out after Llanberis. I'm sure it isn't doing my blood pressure too much good stressing about it trying to get it sorted perfectly for Friday. Right now I have the blood pressure of a steam engine...

Ah well.
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: Ramon on August 12, 2009, 10:51:21 PM
Andy
I read this yesterday for the first time.

First off mate you are doing a lovely job on a deserving and attractive subject :-)) :-)). The fact that you are keeping the old Taycol is really commendable too, you will have a real classic when it's finished.

Which brings me to - Second off I have to agree with Mart - don't rush it - take your time and try to adopt the 'It will be done when it's done' approach.
Honestly - "Been there etc" - It is so annoying afterward when you know it could have been that much better if it hadn't been quite so rushed. Resurecting something that's worn or discarded is as satisfying as building something new and more often than not even more so.

On the painting note I haven't used Plasticote so can't comment but if the layers are different ie primer, paint, clear give each layer plenty of time to harden off before the next. Difficult I know when you want to get on but 'oh' on looking back how I regret having not adhering to that principle in the past. Most painting disasters in my experience are caused by an incompatibility of products.

Don't want to 'teach Granny etc' here but if you are getting orange peel it could be your paint's too thick or your pressure isn't high enough. (Assuming you are using the correct thinner for the paint? (yeh, been there too <:(. )

Keep up the good work Andy - you're doing a fine job.

Ramon
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: andyn on August 12, 2009, 11:57:14 PM
Thanks Ramon, the whole problem really was I was trying to get it done in a hurry, for Llanberis this weekend. The first orange peeling was because like a complete idiot I didn't sand back after the first coat. I don't know what caused the second orange peel, but it was very minimal and sanded back easily. It is now roughly presentable enough for Llanberis, at least the hull is now wet-stuff-proofed, even if I haven't started on the upperparts yet. When I get back next week, after I've drawn plans of it up for a fellow forum member, I'll do something about getting it perfect :-))
Title: Re: Restoration Job - Taycol Comet
Post by: vintagent on June 09, 2010, 05:03:33 PM
Please keep the Taycol in it.  I have a 47 year old Crash Tender with a Taycol Supermarine (and MacGregor R/C!)  Alas I gave a Cadet away not that long ago. brand new , bought from a shop near Southchurch Park for peanuts.  What a fool I was!

If you want to know how to reverse it, I have a choice of two circuits from a radio ham oop norf.

As to speed, probably best to just watch it go and stop!

Regards,
Vintagent