Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: MikeY on June 26, 2009, 06:14:28 am
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Hi all
I'm intending to start my first submarine project.
It's gonna hopefully look like the new HMS Astute nuclear attack submarine, which means it shouldn't be as difficult (i hope) as a normal nuclear attack sub as it doesn't have a round bow, more a flat bow.
I want to make it about 1.5m long, with a compressor driven static dive system and then a diving plane setup for once all of the sub is under the water.
This isn't my first model boat, just my first model sub, so;
1. I wanted to make it out of sheet metal, which is part of the project for me, learn to work with sheet metal ;) and i was planning on making some wooden ribs and then trying to be the metal around them, if there are any metal fabricators here, is this a good way to do it? and if not, what's the best way?
2. Also my selected powerdrive is this http://www.westbourne-models.com./mfa-geared-motor-1743-0.html (http://www.westbourne-models.com./mfa-geared-motor-1743-0.html) , it's a motor mounted on its own steel bracket, with its own gearbox, of which you can select the gearing, and I intended to go for a gearing of 11:1 which gives me a theoretical torque of 1300 g.cm at 6v and 1698 g.cm at 12v, which gives me an rpm of 718 at 6v and 1436 at 12v, so would this be any good?
And now my final (and main) question as i'm probably tailing on far too much:
3. I want to put ultrasonic detectors in it so if it comes too close to an object it goes through a circuit that puts the engines into reverse and say "blows ballast" or maybe just the reverse. Now the circuit is no problem, i just need to find an ultrasonic detector that is watertight, so does anyone know of any good ones anywhere?
Thanks
Mike
P.S. assume price isn't a problem
Link sorted - Admin.
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FYI..... :-))
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x199/cmj291265/Astute%20%20launch/astute_aft_470x313.jpg)
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/02/18/hms10c.jpg)
(http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action-attachment&tid=4041&pid=11951)
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_01/SubMoved_468x427.jpg)
(http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_SSN_HMS_Astute_Pre-Launch_Barrow-In-Furness_lg.jpg)
(http://richardwillisuk.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/hms-astute.jpg)
(http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/astute.jpg)
" P.S. assume price isn't a problem " :o
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Price isnt a problem? wow! why not approach VSEL the shipyard :}
Martin, are you a spy? where did you get those phots- top secret stuff those, normally only available in the local co-op
Ian
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Price not being a problem purely because i want to get an idea of what is possible, then scale it down...if that makes sense...
or how about because i want to see what i can do, and then choose which would be best suited to me :-)
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are you sure you want to go down the sheet metal route ?- the bow will be a bit of a pig in sheet metal, and consider the weight of the overall model in sheet metal over formers,
but hey give it a go and i'd love to see your results !
( you are only a few miles away from me too ! )
i would consider the GRP route, and it may make the model lighter, - i would personally say its easier to work with and best of all its non ferrous !
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You could always use Litho plate, ;) ;)
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hmmm, i'll certainly look into this lithoplate stuff, but what exactly is it, from a real person not a corporate enterprise trying to sell the stuff?
thanks
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Litho plate is high grade Aluminium plate about .25mm thick very smooth surface.Its easily worked and folded as its quite malleable i dont know of suppliers though.
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It wouldn't by any chance be the stuff they generally use in printers would it?
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yes it is, ive used it myself and more than happy with the results O0
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MikeY, trouble with Aluminium is how are you going to get guaranteed watertight joints for your sub hull, litho plate has been used extensively for model boats and large scale model planes as riveting can be employed just like on the real thing, but a modern nuke sub isn't riveted. Welding such thin sheets is going to be way beyond you, it took NASA years of development and millions of dollars to come up with a way of welding up the liquid fuel tanks for its moon rockets, I believe Shesto have a soldering system for Ali (Try Chronos or GLR Distributors) but it involves heat and this could lead to distortion of the thin sheets and remember there's the wood formers you using, the whole lot could go up in flames. Thats why everyone who either makes their own from scratch or the sub kit industries, uses fibre glass moulding its well proved to be most easiest route to take and lends itself to almost guaranteed watertight results.
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Hi Mikey, you could always glue the aly together. We use a mastic type adhesive in the motor trade called stikoflex, its designed for use on commercial bodies, but in reality i haven't found anything it wont stick together yet. I know modern aircraft are extensively glued together, but I'm sure there are Mayhemers here who are much more qualified than me to advise you whats available.
Also parking sensors on cars are ultrasonic, these are water resistant , but I'm not sure they would be suitable.
Cheers Glenn
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if i were to use say fibreglass or GRP (glass reinforced plastic right? like a plastic fibreglass mix or something?) wouldn't i have to make a who mould/former from something like wood? which would then mean i may as well just tar some wood like they did in the olden days? and isn't wood work extremely difficult with curves? so things like making the hull have a slight bulge in the middle? That's just my view, maybe with the right tools it can be bent and shaped?
as for glueing aluminium together...i suppose i could try it, but is it watertight?
i'll take a look into car parking sensors, i wonder how big they are...
thanks guys :-)
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Hi
If you are going down the alloy rout, then you need to talk to Alf Blake, he has been doing a type 9 40/c for the last 10yrs on and off.
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What is your level of modelmaking experience?
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I suppose I should speak up as I am probably the only person here who works for a company which tests rail track using ultrasonics gizmos which run inside a fluid filled wheel to test for cracks and flaws etc in the rail. I would be more than happy to find out where we get the ultrasonic units from for you, but be warned though, they are very expensive for our complete units! although you would not need all of our equipment obviously as you do not want a detailed analysis of the floor and foundations of the pool!
However if I were you I would use a car revesing sensor and adapt it!
hope this helps. let me know if you are interested and want to know who supplies the ultrasonic sensors etc.
Dunk
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I asked and you can get the sensors but having given it some consideration, I dont think that ultrasonic is your best option because the sound will keep travelling into the foundations of the pool or bed of the lake and while some sound will bounce back on the change of density (water to tile) you will get mixed readings.
Dunk