Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: Bryan Young on July 14, 2009, 11:40:34 pm
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I'm always a little intrigued by this apparent obsession with fitting lights and stuff. A radar scanner I can understand. But running lights on a ship in broad daylight? There is no earthly reason fo doing so. Apart form breaking the Law (as written down in the International Regs etc....) , why spoil a decent model by making it look like an attraction at a fairground? Unless you are sailing at night or in really murky conditions nav.lights are a no-no. Unless it is just an ego or ignorance thing ,of course. Interior lights are great. But having a ship lit up like a Xmas tree on a sunny day ....well, a bit "chav" really. BY.
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true Bryan, however they do look good lit up on the display scene.
i for one have fitted navigation lights to both nord Icelandia and Gemini, and will be at some point refitting them to Celestia. usually they stay off however there is nothing like having a boat on the water at night lit up. I have tried to keep Nord Icelandia and Gemini pretty much to what they would have.
deck lights and operational status lights etc.
Nord Icelandia's lights as to what she would be displaying took some asking around, i think I got it right though
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ditto to that , i mean who would light thir boat up too much :embarrassed:
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u176/darran77/night%20sailing/P1000783.jpg)
but then again this does look nice in print and even better in real life on the water (not mine though)
(http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u176/darran77/night%20sailing/P1000795.jpg).
Oh and we are having a night sail at goole on the 12th of sept ,
let there be light from every grain of wheat and led on your vessil :} :-)) .
daz
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But the lights are meant for the evening, not the day time...
ok2
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I feel a new TV show in the make
Pimp My Boat
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Going back 50 or 60 years, modellers were quite happy to accept static versions of fittings on their models.
These days, the market place has become rather more sophisticated, and manufacturers are trying hard to produce working versions of model fittings and equipment for more demanding modellers.
It's a growing trend - expect to see a lot more development in this area of the hobby.
Malc
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So you don't do any night sailing then Bryan? You should try it it's very relaxing
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If people are building exact scale models that look the same as the real vessel then surely fitting lights as per the real vessel is a must? There are quite a few clubs that hold night sails reguarly so lighting is needed at these events anyway....
Russ
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If people are building exact scale models that look the same as the real vessel then surely fitting lights as per the real vessel is a must? There are quite a few clubs that hold night sails reguarly so lighting is needed at these events anyway
Absolutely right, I love night sailing. :-))
Anyway, if someone wants to sail a boat covered in fairylights why shouldn't they? {:-{
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Surely the point is that it is up to the individual modeller to decide what to put on his own boats? Like Andy, I thoroughly enjoy night sailings, therefore some of my boats are equipped with appropriate lighting. I do not use the lights in the daylight, but when the light fades, then illuminated boats come into their own. In fact the two clubs that I belong to will be at a charity event this weekend, and I have arranged for a number of us to have our boats on the water in the evening on Saturday, an extra 'draw' for spectators, and a chance for them to put their hands in their pockets to the benefit of charities, who are hard-pressed at this time.
Danny
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I wouldnt of thought that people display there lighting systems during the day anyway, the lighting output is not enough to see them in daylight?
Russ
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I think the tone of Bryan's post, suggests he had had a bad day and was just being a bit naughty!! %% %%
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Depends on the how it was set up.
If you look for them you might see them... %)
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I think the tone of Bryan's post, suggests he had had a bad day
Again?
I don't think he grasps the meaning of "Chav" either
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I think the tone of Bryan's post, suggests he had had a bad day
Again?
I don't think he grasps the meaning of "Chav" either
ex ar fwee eye with exhausts that you can walk down, hoodie, baseball cap turned backwards
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Boats with lights also look good on the mantlepiece with the family come round at Christmas..... ;)
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Not all shows are floodlit!
Sometimes it is good to see just what CAN be done.
If we are being picky......how often do we see a ship sailing.....ie moving on the water..at a display , flying the 'Jack ?
Rex
(In a light hearted mood)
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a few from the old ellesmere port show at the epic centre.
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4844/76820732.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV124X40)(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9928/15303110.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV12513i)
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2606/42609831.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8976/73415701.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
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These lights and gizmos obviously give delight to their owners (and spectators) and for me, this is the most important criteria. :-)
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Perky, exactly!
two IDENTICAL boats, both built to a high standard, one with dummy lights, one with functioning lights, im sure i know which one will get the most looks.
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Some night shots of Nord Icelandia taken at wicksteed, these were taken without Flash to get the best out of the lights on the boat.
They may not be totally accurate but I'm happy with the results. All LED's on two circuits to spread the load
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1739/26237498.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1CoQhA)(http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/4272/77486334.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1CoVgS)(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1040/28728370.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1Cp1Li)(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/436/59126127.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1Cp4fr)
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So you don't do any night sailing then Bryan? You should try it it's very relaxing
I would love to, but our local park (and hence the lake) is shut at dusk. Apart from that our license prohibits night sailing.
Some of the earlier postings on this thread are great.......but I'm a little nonplussed by the pic of a tug showing towing lights AND the "hampered vessel" lights. (Red-white-red). Can't have both at the same time! BY.
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I think the tone of Bryan's post, suggests he had had a bad day and was just being a bit naughty!! %% %%
Not at all! A very good day in fact. What started it off was fitting the mast light on the ferry. I was going to make it a working one and the other thoughts came to mind. So I've decided not to light up the nav.lights. But I'll probably fit working interior ones. BY.
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I think the tone of Bryan's post, suggests he had had a bad day
Again?
I don't think he grasps the meaning of "Chav" either
Chav and Bling mean the same to me. Tasteless and over the top. Neither has a place in model boat building.
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Hello
I agree with you Brian some time model mast looks like xmas three with "free lance" light BUT I don't agree with you with this
but I'm a little nonplussed by the pic of a tug showing towing lights AND the "hampered vessel" lights. (Red-white-red). Can't have both at the same time!
As it's on the manual to have the towing light + red-white-red. When for example you have a tow and you can't change heading. It's also the case for a slavage tug connecting the lines.
(http://nsa08.casimages.com/img/2009/07/15/090715083300494969.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
A+ Xtian
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As It's Been Mentioned And I Totally Agree....Building A Model Of A Ship/Tug Etc You Should Try Your Best To Get Alot Of It Working.... That's Just Me Personally
Building The Eldergarth With A Difference I Can't Do Everything All At Once (Job Hunting) So I Have Decided The Small intricate Stuff 1st And During Her Life She'll Have Upgrades Until I'm Happy With What I've Done
Lights, Working Bowthruster & Working Deck Winches With The Latter To Be Powered Hopefully Soon After
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Hello
I agree with you Brian some time model mast looks like xmas three with "free lance" light BUT I don't agree with you with this
but I'm a little nonplussed by the pic of a tug showing towing lights AND the "hampered vessel" lights. (Red-white-red). Can't have both at the same time!
As it's on the manual to have the towing light + red-white-red. When for example you have a tow and you can't change heading. It's also the case for a slavage tug connecting the lines.
(http://nsa08.casimages.com/img/2009/07/15/090715083300494969.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
A+ Xtian
i take it by that then, white-white-white + red-white-red is used when towing a disabled vessel into harbor or a dumb barge, where as the 3 whites would be used when assisting a ship that still has its engines running ?
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3 whites, I have a tow of more than 600 feet (200 metres) 2 whites less than 600 feet (200 metres)
red-white-red I have restricted movement.
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basically according to pic "i am towing a vessel over 600 feet in length, its dead in the water and so i cant manouvre easily, YOU keep clear of me, get close at your peril"
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We use red-white-red to show we have restricted manoeuverability when were dredging. We're still moving, up 3 or 4 knots with the tide with us and down to a knot or less going against the tide
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We use red-white-red to show we have restricted manoeuverability when were dredging. We're still moving, up 3 or 4 knots with the tide with us and down to a knot or less going against the tide
just that if you turn, you'll break the dredge head.
Nord Icelandia shines the red white red when her side scan goes into the water at night, her main mast and foremast lights as well as her side lights remain on as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im8gdH83lNw
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We use red-white-red to show we have restricted manoeuverability when were dredging. We're still moving, up 3 or 4 knots with the tide with us and down to a knot or less going against the tide
just that if you turn, you'll break the dredge head.
Nord Icelandia shines the red white red when her side scan goes into the water at night, her main mast and foremast lights as well as her side lights remain on as well
Oh no were keep the draghead on the bottom all the time, it keeps the speed down when the tides with us and helps the ship turn quicker and sharper, we need to as some of the areas are quite small so we need to turn quick, never had any problems and never broke a draghead yet :-))
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like a skier using his poles?
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sailing at EPIC centre 2008 with the then glitter tube version of the side scan, I noticed just how much of an effect that the sidescan had on the ship, simply turning the ship became a challenge, and that was with 12 feet of line spooled off the back. Lord only knows how a full size ship copes with 2km of wire out the back!!
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Fascinating how one thing segues into another!
X-Tians post is surely of a very old layout. By its very definition a tug with 3 white lights showing is obviously "hampered" as far as "getting out of the way" is concerned. Both sets of lights (by themselves) indicate that the ship showing them would have some difficulty getting out of the way. One set of lights is enough. An example of this would be fishing boats. If you follow X-tians example then why don't fishing vessels show both the fishing lights and the red-white-red ones? Similarly with minesweepers. They have specialised light arrangements. The list goes on. One set of lights to indicate to others what the vessel in question is doing should be sufficient to inform any other competent seaman of the situation. BY.
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also I have put it so that when the A-frame returns to rest, the restricted manouvrability lights go out :)
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Hello
X-Tians post is surely of a very old layout. By its very definition a tug with 3 white lights showing is obviously "hampered" as far as "getting out of the way" is concerned. Both sets of lights (by themselves) indicate that the ship showing them would have some difficulty getting out of the way. One set of lights is enough
Yes the image look's old but it's from the actual official manual with last update in 2004. And NO both sets of light don't indicate that the ship have difficulties : the towing lights are regular ones showing the connection between both ships and don't indicate any difficulties.
The "difficulty" or "I can't changed my heading" is indicated with the red-white-red.
As said above, a salvage tug connecting the line show both sets and then when the convoy is running "normaly" : the tug is showing only the towing lights.
An offshore vessel is on the same case when working as anchor handler : the connection is showed with the towing lights and the "I can't change my heading" is showed with the red-white-red.
I've also seen that use of both sets of light for harbor tugs when connecting the line.
I'm not sure if fishing vessel and minesweepers can also show red-white-red but for dreggers and even if they have specialized light arrangement they also show the red-white-red
(http://nsa08.casimages.com/img/2009/07/16/090716063710238479.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
Back to model
(http://nsa08.casimages.com/img/2009/07/16/090716075440336336.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
This one is a typical example of Xmas three {:-{ but the modeler looks happy with her ... so everything is right :embarrassed:
A+ Xtian
PS : Maybe you prefer US Coast Guard manual than french one ? (please notice the same rule number 24 and 27 ... of course there is the same international rule {-))
An example of less than 200 meter tow + red-white-red
(http://nsa08.casimages.com/img/2009/07/16/090716081122846140.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
(http://nsa07.casimages.com/img/2009/07/16/090716081252230399.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
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Whilst on the subject of towing lights versus red-white-red sequence, I seem to remember that normal towing lights are from two points abaft the beam, through the bow to two points abaft the beam on the opposite side, whereas red-white-red setup is allround? Surely a good enough reason to wear both sets at times.
Danny
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Apart form breaking the Law (as written down in the International Regs etc....)
Sorry if it's a daft question, but what law is it that says you can't put lights on a model boat? Is it dangerous or something?
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Jim, its just a member being a bit uberteknikalich by saying it is illegal for boats to have lights on in day light, (full size ones), and therefore it is "technally" wrong for a model to display them in daylight.
sfw!!
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I've never seen anywhere thats says its illegal for real ships to have their nav lights on during the day, we do all the time and if i'm working on the IOW ferries, they have theirs on during the day even if the boats shift is in daylight hours, the lights are on.
The bulbs (lamps) will last longer if they stay on all the time. Same with radars unless were alongside for a tide they on all the time.
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Hello
I fully agree with you Capt Jack, and sometime in some place there is no sun and even no daylight during the day <:(
But from the reply 21 from Brian I had understood that it was to sail with our models which was forbidden at night : Apart from that our license prohibits night sailing.
A+ Xtian
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Apart from that our license prohibits night sailing.
I think he just means that the club isn't permitted to sail at night by the local authority which owns the water. They don't want all these suspicious characters lurking around in the dark whether they are illuminated or not....
Colin
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Hello
There is no more license in France and the pond is my own ;D
Still license for RC in UK ?
A+ Xtian
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Tynemouth Lake is in Tynemouth
By famous Newcastle city;
The river Tyne, deep and wide,
Washes its wall on the southern side;
A pleasanter spot you never spied;
But, when begins my ditty,
I feel its quite a pity
To see the townsfolk suffer so
Because navigation lights seem to be no go
lights!?" The Tynemouth Committee man
(With the Corporation as he sat,)
Looking at the Navvie lights oer yonder like that
Hey I think I see a LIGHT!
Come in Bryan the Mayor did sigh
And in he did come with the strangest sigh!
His queer long coat from heel to head
was lit up green or was it red
And he himself was tall and thin,
With a model of the Northumbria under his chin
With sharp blue eyes, each like a pin,
And light loose hair, yet swarthy skin,
But lips where smiles went out and in—
Especially when he made a din
To ban navigation lights in Tynemouth would be a sin
He advanced to the council-table:
And, "Please your honours," said he, "I'm able,
By means of a secret charm, to draw
All creatures living beneath the sun,
That creep or swim or fly or run,
In the algae filled lake is no fun
And I chiefly use my charm
On creatures that do people harm,
The mole and toad and newt and viper;
And people call me the Master Mariner."
:P sorry couldnt resist %% %%
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Tynemouth Lake is in Tynemouth
By famous Newcastle city;
The river Tyne, deep and wide,
Washes its wall on the southern side;
A pleasanter spot you never spied;
But, when begins my ditty,
I feel its quite a pity
To see the townsfolk suffer so
Because navigation lights seem to be no go
lights!?" The Tynemouth Committee man
(With the Corporation as he sat,)
Looking at the Navvie lights oer yonder like that
Hey I think I see a LIGHT!
Come in Bryan the Mayor did sigh
And in he did come with the strangest sigh!
His queer long coat from heel to head
was lit up green or was it red
And he himself was tall and thin,
With a model of the Northumbria under his chin
With sharp blue eyes, each like a pin,
And light loose hair, yet swarthy skin,
But lips where smiles went out and in—
Especially when he made a din
To ban navigation lights in Tynemouth would be a sin
He advanced to the council-table:
And, "Please your honours," said he, "I'm able,
By means of a secret charm, to draw
All creatures living beneath the sun,
That creep or swim or fly or run,
In the algae filled lake is no fun
And I chiefly use my charm
On creatures that do people harm,
The mole and toad and newt and viper;
And people call me the Master Mariner."
:P sorry couldnt resist %% %%
Very good!
Remind me where I bought the coat. I need a new one that isn't covered with recently aquired odure. Binns maybe? BY.
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I've never seen anywhere thats says its illegal for real ships to have their nav lights on during the day, we do all the time and if i'm working on the IOW ferries, they have theirs on during the day even if the boats shift is in daylight hours, the lights are on.
The bulbs (lamps) will last longer if they stay on all the time. Same with radars unless were alongside for a tide they on all the time.
Although not specifically said, it is implied. Lights shall be shown from sunset to sunrise ( except in conditions etc. etc.). I suppose you could argue that leaving the nav lights on all day is not against the law, but....at the same time the "law" states only that the lights shall be shown from sunset to sunrise. Never really had this discussion before, but on reflection you may have a point. As I have just said, there are 2 ways of looking at this point, and it could possibly make for an interesting legal argument. Of course, if Volvo began building ships then their offerings would be permanently ablaze with lights. Interesting couple of points. BY.
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Sorry Bryan, but there is NO legal argument at all, not even a debate.......The simple fact is that in law the lights can be on anytime, but must be on between sunset and sunrise!! {:-{ {:-{
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I've noticed that some ferries frequently have their navigation lights on in daylight, even in good visibility conditions.
Colin
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Hello
Some bulbs are more fragile during "on/off" and "off/on" time and it's better to leave it on 24 hours a day. It was an argument from a chief engineer aboard of a ship I was.
I have to say that in case of bulb replacement an engineer have to go on top of the mast ... so they do what they want !
A+ Xtian
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Wasting all that energy with lights on during the day >:-o Tut Tut. Wait 'til the Greenies hear about it and there will be a new EU regulation or ten to stop you. :police:
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{-) and what about the energy needed to send an engineer on top of the mast like a monkey {-)
Anyway now on modern ship it's mandatory to have spare navigation light with two separate network
A+ Xtian
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what about the use of LED navigation instillatons? after all, LED indicators, side lights and brake lights have started to turn up on Audi's BMW's DAF's and Scanias, and maybe Volvo's too
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LED navigation lights are now available for yachts but they are still quite expensive. The reason is that the high intensity ones are quite directional so, for example, you need quite a lot of them arranged in a circle to provide an all white mastlight to the required power. With a car brakelight they just have to shine in one direction - backwards!
See here: http://www.ecs-marine-equipment.co.uk/marine-equipment/search-led-navigation-lights-index.html
Having said that I think that is where the future lies as the power consumption is so much less than incandescent bulbs.
Colin
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LED navigation lights are now available for yachts but they are still quite expensive. The reason is that the high intensity ones are quite directional so, for example, you need quite a lot of them arranged in a circle to provide an all white mastlight to the required power. With a car brakelight they just have to shine in one direction - backwards!
See here: http://www.ecs-marine-equipment.co.uk/marine-equipment/search-led-navigation-lights-index.html
Having said that I think that is where the future lies as the power consumption is so much less than incandescent bulbs.
Colin
The same principles apply to LED's for model boats. All of our working lights use LED's - they are much more economical in their use of electrical power and are much more reliable than the old Grain Of Wheat filament type lamps - both important factors when choosing lighting for a model. LED lighting technology is developing exponentially.
Malc
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Hello
... and are much more reliable than the old Grain Of Wheat filament type lamps
20 years ago I used to have a model with light installed but some time later one of the grain of wheat burn, I've replaced it by destroying a part of the mast, then one year later another of this light burn and I've stopped to light my models !
Now as everybody said that LED are reliable I've just started again to light a tug with LED and it work's well !
A+ Xtian
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I have led's for rear lights on my Mazda , really bright from the rear but not a lot when you move round to the side .
If every one fitted led's to their model instead of GOW's (fillament) then the beurocrats would have to praise us for our environmentaly friendlyness O0 :-)) .
daz
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I have led's for rear lights on my Mazda , really bright from the rear but not a lot when you move round to the side .
If every one fitted led's to their model instead of GOW's (fillament) then the beurocrats would have to praise us for our environmentaly friendlyness O0 :-)) .
daz
even white LED dual beam front main and dipped headlights?
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If every one fitted led's to their model instead of GOW's (fillament) then the beurocrats would have to praise us for our environmentaly friendlyness .
daz
Nah. They'd find a way of taxing them to make up the difference.
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All my model lights are LED...
We visited a Dutch Lifeboat in The Hauge, it had two large LED flood lights on the top
of the cabin. The skipper said that the LED lamp "ballast" were good, but interfered with
radio communication when turned on...
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Hi
Maybe they're using a PWM (pulse width modulation) to regulate the current consumtion of LED.
(With that estimated power, linear regulation ist not effective)
Ok, all distributed electrical parts should be confirm with CE, GS, VDE, ... etc.. etc...
IMHO, radio on sea is on the lower band. Let's say, PWM of the LED is at ~5kHz.
Well, some harmonics here and there...
I could believe that interference
Bevore I've done some corrections, you could hear the glowing of floodlights at the booster of my foghorn.
thats nearly the same
Pete