Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: AlisterL on July 21, 2009, 06:25:07 am
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Greetings to all,
The funny thing is I can't remember how I came across the subject of this build, all I know is that I was fascinated by it, fascinated enough to put aside the refurbishment of a Sterling Models Chriscraft Corvette and suspend further work on my Zwarte Zee. It occurrs to me that the subject might have come up in a thread here about tugs and towing - not sure about that though.
I spent several weeks Googling the subject and trying to get as much information as I could. I did find a image of the general layout of the subject which helped immensely and a number of other websites where the subject was featured. Fortunately most of these websites and even Wikipedia all agreed on the basic measurements of the subject. I decided early on that I would not attempt to contact the builders or the owners for more information as I wasn't really sure how to go about it and didn't really want to wait. Besides, not having the detail allows for a certain freedom in the detail and if I get something wrong no one will care! So this is definitely a "modelled on" rather than a "replica" or exact scale copy.
I then had to decide on the scale. Out came the spreadsheet and various scales from 1:200 up to 1:400 were considered. Eventually I came to the decision that 1:300 was about right - the resulting model will fit on the workbench, in the car and still not be too small. I might even be able to launch it! 1:300 yields a model of 1.527 metres - that out to give some clues as to the subject. Points may be awarded for correct guesses - but prizes may not be forthcoming :) However that also meant that while the model would also be reasonably wide - about 230mm's - it's height, particularly of the hull was still not great 100mm for 90+% of the length of the hull and that's not a huge amount to work in.
I then set about up-scaling the general layout. I quickly discovered that what looks nicely defined on a printout at A4 paper size - and that means both plan and elevation views) does NOT look sharp at all when scaled up and printed out on 12 A3 sheets. As an IT guy you would think I would have realised that would happen... Some of the lines came out several mm's thick. Ah well, as I knew what the scale dimensions are supposed to be I figured it's not so much a problem at this point.
What I did find - or rather didn't - were any hull lines available for the subject. This has proved to be an interesting problem as it seems to me that the majority of tankers and bulk carriers tend to have a very square cross section. That is not the case here and that meant that the hull lines that can be found for tankers and bulk carriers couldn't be used. Lets not talk about Delft Ship either :). I consoled myself by hunting out as many photos from the web as I could to give an idea as to what the lines of the hull were. Then I needed to think about how I would shape them. The result, along with some consideration of creating a solid and inflexible hull came from a thread I started a few months ago about frame spacing (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16977.msg169002#msg169002 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16977.msg169002#msg169002)). So I settled on building rectangular tub framed externally - I guess what I mean is that the sides and bottom of the hull are the supporting structure, apart from some frames across the width. This would be attached to a traditionally constructed (plank on frame with a keel frames) for the bow and stern sections.
My greatest challenge so far and it will continue to be, is my lack of experience. My previous models are:
- A Moonglow, built with my father some 20 years ago,
- A Cachalot, now collapsed due to using inappropriate materials,
- A Dumas PT 109 from the 1233 kit,
- part of a Billings Zwarte Zee, that had been partially started that I rescued from our local version of E-bay ( called TradeMe).
And that's it. Diving into a scratch build complete with doing my own plans is a bit of a step. I think it'll float. Maybe for a bit. Hopefully it will be on an even keel too :)
I think that's enough for one post - it's quite long.
I realise I haven't named the subject either - I'm somewhat reluctant to, probably because I don't want to be called on detail later on! So I probably won't be naming the model after the subject either - I'm considering calling it the Freya... Any Freddie Forsyth readers here?
Photos of progress in the next post, hopefully in a few hours.. ( I need to go do dinner now :)
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How big will your bow and stern sections be?
Might consider using the centre of the vessel as a free-flooding ballast tank, so you don't have to put much weight in to get it to settle down in the water. Could even put a pair of simple pumps, connect them via three-position switch to one channel on your radio, and alter the ships draft as you go. (both good ideas i got from the friendly people here 8) )
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Hi ZZ56,
Bow section is 260mm and the stern 373mm - to be exact :)
My plan is to build the hull, epoxy it inside and out and put it in the water. Then I will carefully fill the centre section with water, counting the litres and see how many litres it takes to get it to the waterline, or close to it. 1 litre of water = 1kg, so I will trade off usable space against water weight. I'm hoping to keep the static weight as low as possible and then either pump in water or free flood it, or maybe both. Of course I could put something other than water in...
Back to my little narration:
So I decided to shape the hull out of expanded polystyrene. I had a day off work and went and found a local supplier. $25 (Pacific Peso's) later I had a fairly large piece to use. It wasn't long enough, but there was plenty of it.
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1772/28975669.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1uRn3A)
Poly chips make a heck of a mess and stick to absolutely everything by the way...
After a bit of mucking about, measuring, cutting, more measuring and cutting, referring to pictures, measure, cut, etc, etc, I ended with the following.
This is the overall shape:
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1073/58692907.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq6UWJJ)
The bow more closely:
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8848/27910475.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
The stern:
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/778/22625139.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Because I had the elevation view on the general layout I was able to determine the vertical measurements of the various parts of the hull reasonably accurately. What I couldn't tell was what the horizontal measurements would be except at deck level. That means that everything horizontal on the hull, under the waterline has been done as a best guess based on photos etc. That process took several weeks as I was only able to work after work some days and only part of days on the weekend.
Fortunately the poly block was quite a high density - that meant that I was able to get quite a good finish on it with a B&D 3-in-1 sander and some 80 grit paper.
As someone if the framing thread suggested, I shaped only one side of the poly rather than end up with to sides that don't match - attribute that suggestion to Derek.
At this point I went hunting for building materials. After a couple of weeks mucking about I ended up with some 7mm construction ply C/D faced in a 2.4 x 1.2m sheet. I had to move the drivers seat way up close to the steering wheel to get it home - so close I got cramp in the legs. I won't do that again. I also got a 1.8m sheet of MDF 300mm wide by 18mm thick as a building board.
Ok - ending this post here, onto the next...
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The lines on the poly - the lower of the two horizontal lines is the water line - the top line is the deck level. There is two cm's difference between them. the top of the block itself is the level of the highest point of the hull plating at the bow - 2cm's above the desk.
So this is the point where the best laid plans start to come unstuck... I whipped out the skill saw and started to cut parts for the centre tub. 900mm long, 230 wide all good. Get the big square and set out the lines to cut and away we go. Ahh. Need more practice on the skill saw - it seems I can't cut straight lines. "xxxxx"... I wasted a few bits of ply, more than I wanted - or expected, but I also knew that I had plenty of ply to use if I needed it.
Anyway I made all the cuts, some of lesser quality than others, but I wasn't to phased by that. I allowed to skinning the deck with 1.5mm ply, for the width of the ply itself and pretty much had it covered. Cut. Whatever...
Currently the tub looks like this:
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/4635/14498091.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
and with some frames:
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/363/52569927.th.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq6_XSr)
No sides on it yet - I'm waiting until I get the bow and stern sections complete and ready to fit before I do that. That way i can check to make sure it looks ok before I proceed.
If anyone is curious why I chose to use building grade ply, the simple answer is cost - I didn't want to pay for expensive high quality ply and then make a booboo and have to re-do it. The other thing is that with covering it with epoxy and polyester or f/g cloth, I'll be able to hide the imperfections anyway.
To create the keels for the bow and stern sections I went back to the elevation view and drew them up. I knew what length I required and I knew where the hull curved so I could then plan where to cut the poly to get the shape of the frames. After a bit of measuring, some staring at it and thinking things through I made several cuts in the poly and ended up with 1/2 frame sections. I transferred these to paper and got on with it.
At this point I really made I mistake as I didn't cut to use the building board - I didn't allow any to attach the frames to the building board and make sure it was all trued up. I just worked to the centre lines and tried to square things up by inserting square ply braces. Suffice it to say that the resulting bow section was both twisted and skewed. Lesson learnt. Fortunately the frames could be saved, although the keel couldn't. I cut another. And went to work on the stern. Doing it the proper way as I hadn't cut the frames for that section yet - bar one that was exactly the same size as the end of the centre tub. So the end result is that we are now at this point:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2981/30761261.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/623/97484373.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Because of where the prop tube has to sit - as per the original vessel I spent quite a bit of time thinking about how I was going to do that. End result, split the keel, cut out a section the size of the diameter of the tube, glue the tube in and then glue the rest of the keel back on. Mock up as below:
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6682/67949223.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
I added the lubrication tube to the shaft myself as below:
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5332/32707904.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
The tube itself is 8mm diameter and 275mm long. The shaft is 4mm diameter. The last frame I located specifically where is it (actually I think it was mostly luck) as it meets the end of the shaft at the point in the hull where the stern section curves stop and meet the regular straight side of the hull. Maybe I did plan that... The tube glued in and I have started adding some stringers (is that the right term?) at the deck level. First I shape them, heating with steam and holding to approximate shape with string. It worked.
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4013/91127443.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
End this post...
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Damn - I hit the wrong button on the keyboard and lost a lot of stuff. Now I have to remember it all!
You can see that I have added some gussets to the keel where the lube-tube cuts through it and also between the last frame and the stern where the rudder tube will be.
The one big mistake I have made is not allowing in the size of the frame I cut for the diameter of the curve of the hull. Meaning that only one edge of the frame is going to contact the planking. I think I'll need to build this up, maybe with balsa or maybe with thin ply and sand to shape. Advice on this problem is welcome.
Currently one of the stringers is glued in and also tacked at the ends. The other is drying in place at the moment.
So far, believe it or not, this represents about 3 months (probably more) of work. Between a full time job and kids aged 4 and 5.5, time on construction is hard to come by. Most of the progress on the stern has been in the last week and a half as I have been off work with a bad cold (over that mostly) and nursing a sick wife and child (almost over that). Future progress will be limited to a few hours per weekend. Also it's winter and I have to make sure that when I glue stuff, the glue will be dry or nearly so when it starts to get cold!
So that's it for now. Maybe more progress and an update by the end of the week.
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Damn - I hit the wrong button on the keyboard and lost a lot of stuff. Now I have to remember it all!
( NB. I've done that Many times, >:-o
I now mainly use Firefox web browser which retains any typed info, even if you close the window and reopen in and
use 'back', it's still there! Alternative, type the post in a word processor and then cut & paste into the post on here. )
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Hi Martin,
I thought of that afterwards. Of course as a smart-a@#e IT guy I use Chrome :) Says a lot doesn't it :)
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A bit more work has been done and some progress made. Quite a bit of this was correcting a mistake I made with the frames at the stern. It seems that when I translated the slices of poly onto paper, I had the reference line on the poly block wrong against the centre line on the paper. I'm not quite sure how this happened, but frames 3 and 4 looking (where 1 is the stern itself) where sitting a bit to high at the centre where they meet the keel. I was aware of this possibility at the time. This has been corrected, also allowing for the frames to be profiled to allow better contact with the planking I will need to do. 20/20 hindsight says it would have been smart to build a cardboard model to prove out the drawings before translating to wood. Live and learn I guess.
Here is the stern with re-profiled framed and keel glued in:
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8784/94379935.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Probably not the best view of it, but it gives an idea. Also, stringers in place. All I need to do here is some work on the stern vertical to build up the inside edge of the frame to allow for better gluing of the planking.
Below is a view of the bow construction on the building board. I have tipped it on it's side to site, bend and attach the stringer down what is the top side in this orientation.
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4543/87257082.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
I was able to cut some spare ply to the correct height and sit the frames on top of these using a third piece of ply as a brace to keep everything square and located correctly. This will explain all the screws you can see in this view.
I've had some thoughts about other things too.
Firstly, I think I ought to name the subject just so as you all know where I'm going with this and also so that, should anyone care to, some of those pesky details I'm so worried about can be corrected if better information is available. My reluctance to name the subject is due entirely to my own belief [or lack thereof] in my ability as a modeller.
The current name of the subject is the Knock Nevis. Some of you may know of her as the Jahre Viking, but there is quite a history of names going back to Seawise Giant. I suspect the name changed as many times as the ownership. How anyone can name any vessel, without being struck down by lightning, "Happy Giant" I have no idea... It is my intention to get as close to the ship as she was as the Jahre Viking rather than as she currently is as the FSO Knock Nevis.
Some more assumptions I am making, as I haven't been able to get these details:
- There is no bow thruster
- The prop is 5 bladed - although it could easily be 4 bladed. I'm by no means 100% sure about this as this information hasn't appeared anywhere I could find it and I'm working from my interpretation of a photo taken from the stern while she was unloaded and sitting very high in the water.
Anyway, that's it for now. More updates when things happen.
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Just in case anyone is curious, the big screw in the front of the bow section in the last photo is used for winding string around - this is the string that I'm using to hold the steamed stringer into place while it dries. I decided it was easier to do that than pile batteries and stuff up on the string.
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Here's a site with good photos of her in all stages of her life http://www.aukevisser.nl/supertankers/id23.htm (http://www.aukevisser.nl/supertankers/id23.htm)
I think you are right about the bow thruster and it's most likely she had a five-blade propeller as a lot of large single-screw vessles have such propellers. Cuts down on vibration, i think.
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Thanks for that ZZ56,
I found this site quite useful, some good detail in photos:
http://members.tripod.com/jahre_viking/index.html (http://members.tripod.com/jahre_viking/index.html)
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I'm making slow progress at the moment due to making sure that the glue is dry enough before moving on to the next piece.
Here is the start of the planking on the stern:
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6407/23820217.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
I'm using 1.5mm balsa sheet cut to length plus a bit x 10mm. With some of the curves at the stern it might have been better to go with 5mm wide strips.
Below, some progress on the bow as well:
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9443/88692292.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Three layers of balsa block each glued and clamped in turn.
Will have to see how much progress can be made this weekend.
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I got adventurous on Friday night with a saw (well, several) and some 80 grit sandpaper - the bow is now shaped, as below shown with the original EPS for comparison.
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6826/24770095.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
and again, different view:
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6977/75987139.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
As it happens I'm really quite chuffed with how that has turned out - it seems to be regular and looks the same from all angles and just looks right. I took it off the building board to finish the blocks and deck level and it looks even better the right way up - I only thought to take a photo of that after I had screwed it back down...
So I got really carried away and started planking that too:
(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2491/37075070.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
I am also quite happy with the way this is turning out. You might be able to see that I have changed to 5mm wide planking as it's easier to get it around the curves. I steamed one piece of planking and bent it vertically up the bow from the flat pieces I put on the bottom. All the horizontal planking buts up to this vertical piece. The eagle eyed will notice that this does not go up to the top of the bow - the intention is to use a single piece of balsa that will start at the point and curve around the bow and also up over the top of the deck - the result will be as high as the EPS shows. I hope that makes sense.
Progress is being made on the stern with planking as well - although no more photos as yet.
Thinking about the balsa, it's going to need quite a bit of strengthening, so I think it will need polyester/fibreglass inside as well as out - I was thinking just epoxy inside to seal, but I do think it will need the extra strength gained from another layer of cloth. I'm also thinking that I will do the inside to add some rigidity before sanding the outside and also give it a few coats of sanding sealer on the outside prior sanding to firm it up there and add just a little resistance to the sandpaper as well. The stern is going to require quite a bit of filler to even out the lines.
And that was the progress over the weekend.
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Looking good!
You could probably get away with just epoxy on the inside, fiberglass is an incredibly strong material. Might even be able to replace the sanding sealer with a thin coat of epoxy (although i confess i don't know what sanding sealer is and have never seen such a product over here).
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Sanding sealer is just cellulose dope with talc added to fill the wood grain.
Lance
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not sure if this has been mentioned somewhere in the topic, but is the gonna have tanks to fill stuff in?
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not sure if this has been mentioned somewhere in the topic, but is the gonna have tanks to fill stuff in?
Mimime - I'm not quite sure what you mean?
I'm intending that there will be some free-flooding tanks and maybe some tanks I will pump water into in order to bring it down to the water line, or close to it anyway. Is that what you were referring to?
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I think were talking about the same thing, not sure though. I was on a tanker once, much smaller though, I think there were 9 tanks that they could fill up, so are you gonna make something like that or just one big tank to make the draft bigger?
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Minime,
from reading through the way others have done this, I think the best way is to use one big tank but with lots of baffles to stop sloshing. It occurs to me that lots of smaller tanks connected with small diameter pipes achieves the same thing.
It will probably depend on how much water needs to be brought on-board to get it down to the waterline. One concern I have is making sure that I don't free flood so much water in that I can't lift it out of the water.
Thinking further bout the tanks, it seems that the free flooding tanks might be larger by baffled as there can be lots of holes to allow the flooding, but any tanks that I use for trimming should be smaller.
Ultimately I'm fully prepared to have to try one thing then fill some holes up and try another. I just need to get it right before I put the deck on :)
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ah ok sounds good, good luck with build.
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Thanks :)
It's fun already.
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The last three weeks have no seen much progress unfortunately.
Kids birthday's and family visits have meant less done that I would have hoped. However, things are now on the move again.
This was was status yesterday morning:
The bow:
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7091/19639592.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
and two shots of the stern:
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8391/25733625.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8/22166551.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
you can see on the second shot the gap that I have (well, had) to fill.
Some more work yesterday - a nice warmish day for glue-drying - produced the following:
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/852/56643463.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
So the stern is all planked and waiting for the next steps. I have added a couple of coats of sanding sealer as well. One coat was put over the completed side before the othe side was done. It was interesting to note the difference in sound made when tapping against the sides. In fact you may be able to discern the difference in colour btween the balsa that has had sealer applied and that which hasn't - there is a distinct yellowness where the sanding sealer has gone on.
At the moment I'm waiting for some glue to dry so that I can remove some pins from the bow and give myself more room to work there.
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Looking at the date of my last posting I realise that it's been pretty much two weeks since I posted.
One of those weeks must have had very little done in it!
Since last weekend however, I have been pouring epoxy into the bow and stern sections to strengthen the inside prior to sanding the outside. We have only just entered spring down here and although the weather is markedly warmer sometimes the epoxy would take ages to cure. Yesterday was much better though, warmer, even though it rained a bit.
So, a shot of the stern section with some epoxy curing:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2275/50222921.jpg)
(Hmm postimage having some problems for me this morning - or maybe it's me again, or FireFox 3.5.3. The URL to the image is not adding automatically to the post, but is in the popup so a little cutting and pasting and replacing of %3F's and %2F's makes it work.)
Either way the two sections to the lower left do not have epoxy in this photo, but all the remainder do.
And two shots of the bow section after an initial sanding:
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2112/25299511.jpg)
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/749/85431537.jpg)
The strips you can see of darker colour are the planks that are a little bit lower than the others. Also visible in these two bow shots is the raised coaming (that might not be the correct term) that wraps around the upper bow area. This is not either the correct height or length, but is both higher and longer than I need.
Since these shots were taken I have removed the MDF that was fixing the frame to the building boards and have done away with the building boards altogether - at least for the bow and stern sections. I have also added some filler to some areas on the bow that were low, or too flat and not rounded enough:
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5710/24761002.jpg)
I started to look again at the centre tub section and to continue with that. I decided that my original efforts to cut the bottom and sides were simply not good enough and the cuts I made were not straight enough. I have now cut those again and it is waiting on further work. These are of 7mm standard building ply, as were the frames for the bow and stern. It's a little bit flexible depending on the vagaries of the grain, so I am adding strengthening runners of two strips of 7mm ply glued together to which the bottom, sides and ends will be glued and screwed. I will post pictures to make clear what I mean! When I get there that is...
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2 further comments.
1: The strips that I was referring to at the end of the previous post can be seen in the photos of the original tub section way back up the top in the 2nd post.
2: The shot of the stern section with the epoxy drying also show that it is balanced on bits of scrap wood etc, in order to get the section with the epoxy in it as level as possible and cover as much of the planking as possible.
TTFN...
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Well it's been a while since I last updated.
Eventually the epoxy got into all the cracks and crevices of the stern section and dried up nicely.
Because of the radii of the frame in the stern some of the planks had some quite distinct differences in levels.
Here's a couple of shots after the first gentle sanding:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1L54yA.jpg)
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1L68Ur.jpg)
Because I didn't want to rip too much off the balsa planking I decided to bog it up with car body filler:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1L78g0.jpg)
So far so good right?
Ahh no, as it turned out.
The filler didn't set. I left it nearly a week and still soft. I suspect the hardening catalyst may have either gone off or wasn't sufficient quantity. Either way, lots of soft bog.
Eventually I started scraping it off using a combination of putty knives and sandpaper. Basically the sandpaper caused the bog to turn into little thin rolls as it was scraped up.
After a while most of it came off and I had some very thin bits of planking as a result of using the sandpaper.
I resorted to using Selleys Polyfilla to get things smoothed out. It's not as hard as car filler when it's set, but it does work quite well.
I had also completed the centre tub by this stage so set about the task of attaching the bow. As I come to post about this I realise that I haven't taken any snaps of the tub prior to attaching the bow. I also realise that neither have I taken any snaps of the the bow and centre before attaching the stern.
So I ran out and took some just now.
Shot from the bow - with coaming profiled correctly:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1Lg2u9.jpg)
I'm quite happy with how this is looking!
A shot of the stern. Note that the join you can see between the tub and stern is a work in progress - glue and filler are drying right now:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1Lh4kS.jpg)
And finally a view from above showing the end of the stern section, where all the nuts and bolts are, the tub and in the distance the stern section attached:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1LhXd0.jpg)
That's a 1 metre ruler in the picture - it hasn't moved between the shots either.
So it's finally starting to look like it should. A bit more work to do to sort out the join between the sections as you may have noticed.
One problem that has become apparent is in the shape of the stern. I didn't notice it when building the stern, but one of the stringers bows out then around, rather than straight along then around. It's not much, just a couple of mm, but it does throw the lines out a little. I'll have to figure out how to fix or disguise that.
Hah! Just looking at the pictures - all those lines/edges that look wonky and wavey - they aren't!
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One more thing that I thought of.
I needed to chamfer the edges down the length of the hull, like so:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1MCJdi.jpg)
I did this with a small (modellers?) spokeshave:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts1MD4FA.jpg)
and some 80 grit sandpaper. Basically I used the spokeshave to take the edge down at about a 45 degree angle to the depth I needed, then repeated the process at the 22 degree angles and tidied it up with the sandpaper.
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Last weekend featured bathurst and even though I'm neither Australian nor in Australia, that took up a fair chunk of time. Mostly I think I slept through it :) Ha ha - well not quite. Any comment on the result might turn into a rant - so I better stop there!
I noticed that, despite my best efforts, the bow was getting small dents and knocks made in it, ruining all the work I had done making it smooth and presentable. I resolved to get some epoxy on the hull to protect it from knocks and also as a water proofing coat.
This has turned out to be a small challenge as one can never be quite sure what coverage will be achieved.
First of all I did the underside of the hull. Having previously bought some epoxy and used it to strengthen the inside of the balsa planked bow and stern I figured I'd start with 25mls of epoxy and see what happened. The first 25mls seemed to cover about 1/2 the underside without too much trouble. Interestingly however was that after it had dried, the epoxy appears to have "retreated" or pulled back from some small areas while it was drying, leaving some small uncovered patches. I'm not sure if this is normal behaviour or not, or if it means that I really didn't have enough to cover the area I was doing. I ended mixing another 25mls to cover the remainder of the underside - not including any of the stern area. I also managed to brush some around the bow area too.
In hind site, trying to "stretch" the coverage out was a bad idea. Irrespective of the coverage problem with the epoxy above, where it was very thinly applied or brushed out too much the surface has become quite rough on drying.
I figured that this was mostly to do with coverage and so yesterday when I repeated the procedure on on of the sides, I made sure that I used more epoxy. To cover roughly the same length of hull, but probably a little less than 1/2 the total area I used two 20ml mixes. This has resulted in much better coverage and a much better finish to the epoxy.
This snap was taken yesterday afternoon after the epoxy had hardened and I was able to see the result:
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts2fxQPJ.jpg)
After the first coat to the underside and having noticed the problem with coverage, I went around with a big black marker and circled all the areas where there were problems. One of these you can see on this side in the photo. The coat I added over the top has totally covered that up. What you can't see is the number of circled areas on the underside! Perhaps interestingly, many of these areas are around the screw heads that have been filled and sanded smooth. However, that wasn't a problem on the side.
Because I was now putting epoxy on the hull, I figured I better sort out what I was going to do with the rudder. I knew and had planned to add a length of metal from the stern out to the correct length matching the plan. Although I new I had to do this, I hadn't and still haven't figured out how to go about allowing rudder to be removed if needed. So, having salvaged some nice lengths of metal (for the IT inclined, these are unused rails for rack mounting Cisco MDS switches) I cut a length and trimmed it to width and put it in place. Due to a lack of inspiration I have the heads of two screws protruding from the surface of the metal. I wasn't sure about coutersinking them - mostly as they are round heads and not countersunk flat heads and also, they protrude only 1mm. In the photo, that piece of metal is a fraction under 70mm long with 50mm hanging out past the end of the skeg (skeg?). The actual pivot point for the rudder is 22mm back from the end of this piece.
I think I will have to figure this all out once and for all before any epoxy fixes this in permanently.
(http://www.postimage.org/Ts2fO209.jpg)
By the way, there is a hole for the rudder tube - I just planked over it. it's also easy to see how thin that balsa got...
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The most common way to service the rudder is to make the bottom bracket removeable. Then you'd take the tiller arms off the shaft and slide the rudder and shaft down and out.
If you fixed the bottom bracket in place permanently, you'll need to make the rudder removable from the shaft. You can use an integral stop collar to attach it to the shaft or make a square shaft that slides inside the rudder as i did
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/DestructorBot/rudder.jpg)
The bow is looking fantastic so far. Instantly recognizeable as a big tanker.
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Alister,
Comment away on Bathurst mate, no one can deny that on the day the best combo won,
end of arguement.............. :-))
Roy
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Hi ZZ, I spotted that diagram on your build and had been thinking about it - thanks for reminding me.
The problem that I'm going to face is that I will not have access to the rudder shaft to remove the tiller arm. It will be well back from any superstructure that will come off the deck allowing access.
I think the easiest thing to do will be make that piece of metal at the bottom removable - or allow it to swing from side to side. I just have to figure out how to make it watertight - I'd hate any water to get into the ply.
I was just sitting here thinking about it and, finally, inspiration has arrived!
Hah - and I even did a little sketch to illustrate, but postimage isn't playing ball, so let me paint a picture in words...
Referring to the previous image with the metal rudder support attached, imagine if you will, a vertically square section cut out of the ply where the rudder support is attached. So above the end of the shaft, there is a section removed from the ply. Picture then that section being replaced by a square section of plastic exactly the same size inserted. This then has the screw holes drilled into it and is glued firmly in place. The rudder support screws into this and because it's plastic and waterproof there are no problems with water getting into the ply. Heck, I can even cast that with the epoxy I've been using to coat the outside of the hull...
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Roy!
I've been avoiding replying to your post since I saw it! I may be able to reply now without getting carried away...
Suffice it to say that I do have a Commodore (wagon) parked in my driveway, but I still didn't really think GT should have been the winner - there were two incidents after the last safety car during overtaking manoeuvres that really, I felt, should have resulted in some sort of penalty to that car, particularly that close to the end. I wasn't the only one watching in our household who thought the same. And when GT was asked about it during the press conference, his reply was something along the lines of "stiff, it's Bathurst". I wonder if he would have been so generous if he was on the receiving end... And lets not mention the commentators, for whom some drivers can do no wrong...
And I've already said more than I wanted to :)
Back to the model boating...
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AlisterL,
Just curious, and yes I will agree there was a little bit of unusual driving by some people.
The other incident which I disaggreed with was the Vodaphone Car taking out Bargwanna
on the main straight entry, he was in the replay into the back door and not upto the door
post, but no action was taken, so I guess it cuts both ways, I am not a follower of either brand
having owned both types and had no trouble with either............
Roy
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Fair point Roy, very fair point. That was something I had forgotten about. 6 of 1, 1/2 a dozen of the other perhaps...
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Postimage seems to be responding to me to day, so here are some relevant snaps.
First - the on-paper drawing of what I tried to explain yesterday.
(http://s1.postimage.org/Twgd0.jpg)
That was white paper....
The cutout I made above the propshaft:
(http://s1.postimage.org/TwRD9.jpg)
I have had a scrape at it with some 80 grade sandpaper to key the surface for the glue.
And lastly, the mould, as such it is...
(http://s2.postimage.org/mdY80.jpg)
The glue was drying in this shot.
I made, purposely :), the mould larger in all dimensions that I needed. Also, given this was a first attempt for me I used balsa to make it, on the basis that I could sand it away if I needed to. It looks like I will need to...
Anyway, TTFN.
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Skipping right along a bit, we find the following:
(http://s2.postimage.org/vFy_r.jpg)
Funny how the macro feature on the camera shows lots of stuff I didn't notice with the naked eye - particularly that edge that has been sanded away...
All up I consider that a success. There is still some work to do to make the rudder removable, but most of the tricky bits will be in the rudder itself I think. I can progress further with the epoxy.
Computers are much easier in case anyone is curious :)
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Well... so... interesting week... I covered the final area of the hull with epoxy on thursday night. That means the outside of the hull is fully waterproofed... That means water... And weight...
Speaking with a friend about it, we did a rough calculation and divided the DWT of the Jahre Viking/Knock Nevis (565,000) by the cube of the scale, 27000, giving 21 Kg. That's about as heavy as I feared...
So anyway, lets find some water to do a test float. It won't fit in the bath - about 200mm too long at the longest point on the bath (way up the top) . The in-laws bath is triangular - it must be at least 1500mm at it's longest. Hull in the car, kids too 'cos they wanted to watch and up to the in-laws... Hah! Foiled! The triangular bath is only about 1300 along it's longest side... Finally I decided to wip the paddling pool out of a cupboard in the garage - I knew that was 2m long...
Where the hell did the link to upload photos to PostImage go..? I must be going blind...
(http://s3.postimage.org/1GheWS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Well anyway, one hull in a puddle. Nothing in the hull as yet, just a pro-shaft! It actually sat lower than I thought it would. The sharp-eyed will notice on the side of the hull three black dots, one at each end of the centre tub and the other pretty much in the middle of it. This is the scale water line. I'm not using this as a target - I figure that if I'm a centimetre or so below that mark then it will be good enough. Quite frankly at the ponds I normally use, anything less than 3cm of freeboard is going to be dangerous. I suspect the natural state of the my local waters is probably the equivalent of a 10 metre swell at this scale...
So back to the original question - what weight to get down the hull down to the required level?
(http://s3.postimage.org/1GqFAS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
What you see here is the hull with 7 2 litre ice cream containers in it. That's, umm, 14 Kgs of water and the hull sunk about 3.5 cm. However it was very unstable with all that water on top of the hull and quite a lot spilled into the hull... I don't know if it was level or not, so it may have sunk further - or less. I'm hoping for the "further" option.
I think, having now emptied most of the water out of the pool, that I need to repeat the procedure and be a little more careful and accurate about the balance and measurements. Initially I was quite happy with the result, but it was done very quickly and probably needs more care and more time to get it right.
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Ahah! I've just read Martin's last post on the "Photo sizes allowed on Mayhem" thread http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16854.25 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=16854.25) and now I understand why I can't see the link anymore! Going straight to postimage and uploading an image returns a page on completion that allows the resulting url to be copied in bulletin board/forum format - that's the first url in the list...
Anyway, so I filled up the test tank again this morning and had another attempt at getting some good results. On this attempt I took my time, had some assistance and wasn't working against fading light.
First shot is the fore/aft level - I think taken with a 1.353kg (approximately :) 6V 4Ah SLA at the front. The stern is a little heavier than the bow it seems...
(http://s3.postimage.org/1LmKyi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
The second shot, complete with cheeky monkey, shows the hull with a total of 7.353Kg in it:
(http://s4.postimage.org/1qoCRS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
And the final image is the hull very carefully balanced with all 7 ice cream containers and the SLA in it, showing the water relative to the waterline - the black dot:
(http://s4.postimage.org/1qp8hJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
So that's 15.353Kg added in and sitting level. Actually, that will be slightly less than that weight as I didn't fill the containers up to the 2 litre mark as it would have slopped all over the place... So maybe it's 15Kg or so. That's not too bad a level. If the distance about the dot to the top of the hull is 2cm, then with that 15Kg in it the waterline is a bit over 1cm below the dot - the scale waterline - and that could be a good safety margin as I described previously. I figure if I allow for 16Kg of ballast it will be close enough to what I want to achieve.
All I need to do now is figure out how to make it work. I read recently that Uranium has twice the density of lead - some of that could work well. Anyone got any spare..? Probably not... Hah! - maybe this would have to be a bulk carrier if I did put Uranium in :)
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More thoughts about ballasting and batteries:
I need 12V to drive this model with the motor I have chosen. A 12V 7Ah SLA battery has dimensions of 151mm x 100mm x 65mm. My maths says that battery has a volume of about .98 litres. It weighs approximately 2Kg. That's 2.04x the density of water. Not a bad ratio, but the 6V 4Ah I have is about 2.6 times. Either way it makes sense to use that as ballast rather than water.
A quick Google says that lead is 11 x the density of water. That means that for an equivalent weight of each, water will occupy 11 x more volume than lead. Or 19 x more volume than Uranium :) I think this logic is correct - someone tell me if I've got it wrong!
I think that I am aiming for an all up dead weight in the model of around 10 to 12 Kgs and therefore the need to add, either by pumping or free-flooding, or a combination of both, no more than another 6Kgs of ballast as water. If the cube root of 6 is 1.8, then this 6 KG's will require a cube fractionally larger than 18cm x 18cm x 18cm. Again, tell me if I'm on the right track or not.
Also, if I have read and understood other recent posts correctly, I should put my static ballast as across as much of the width of the hull and down as much of the length as possible. But, if I need to combine dynamic ballast, whether free flooded or pumped, then the static should be concentrated fore and aft, with the dynamic in the middle.
I'd love to get some comment on the above...
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Hi Alister.....from the start we should consider the term....."displacement" weight as the criteria O0
Your trials with ice cream containers of water may not be valid for calculation .......1 litre of liquid [water] volume = 1 kg ...not sure but is ice cream sold by volume or weight?.... advertizing laws are %%....may need to fill a said container & proof weigh the actual mass weight which multiples of [+hull & machinary] will = the vessel total displacement....... Derek :-))
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10 Kgs of lead shot fits in a bag that is about 20 cm x 15 cm x 5 cm or so, or get a roll of roof lead sheet It wont be too fussed about being in water so you can spread it out through the ballast tanks as well.
Nick
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Isn't it wonderful to have such a big model? %) Just wait till you have "breakables" attached to the hull.
For the water-ballast issue, the only way you could have it act as true ballast is to pump it in and out. With a free-flooding chamber what you are essentially doing is taking away that much buoyancy from the hull. It will not affect the waterline much until you start to add weight to it, so don't be disheartened if you put it in the water with free-flooding chambers and find it sits as high as usual.
Now is the time for you to decide if you want the ballast to be removeable or not. If you do, you'll have to figure out how you will get it in and out.
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Derek - see the attached!
(http://s3.postimage.org/1TlM1i.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
And I measured it as well.
Nick - thank you very much for that info - that is very useful. All I need to do now is find some lead. Although I'm still hanging out for some Uranium... :)
ZZ - Ahh. That's interesting. I assumed that with some lead ballast and a free flooding tank that the ballast would push the model down into the water allowing the tank to flood to the point where it was full. Allowing for, of course, the air to escape... Is that not the case?
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yes, that is how it works. I meant that with no ballast, the chamber itself won't bring the waterline down by more than a half a centimetre, barely anything.
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yes, that is how it works. I meant that with no ballast, the chamber itself won't bring the waterline down by more than a half a centimetre, barely anything.
Would this matter if the overall mass of the model is greater than the un-ballasted displacement, would it not sink until the remaining buoyancy came into effect?, just the weight of battery's and super structure should be enough?
Nick
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Because I could, I used Sketchup to diagram what I my understanding is of what your suggestions are:
(http://s2.postimage.org/X2Ju9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Basically, the lead ballast is at the lowest point (layered sheets) with the dynamic ballast (water) in tanks above it. There are small holes allowing water to flow between each tank and each tank should also have baffles in it (not shown). The air escapes should be a bit smaller than drawn... I haven't shown any method to get the water in or out either.
Do I have it right?
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Wow - my last post was quite a while ago. I didn't realised that it had been so long.
My tasks after my last post was to get some lead - or uranium :) I gave up on the uranium for various reasons and was waiting on a roofer friend to see if I could get some lead sheet. Unfortunately he took his wife off to Fiji for a week which delayed things a bit. In any case, I ended up ringing around a few places and got a 10Kg bag of lead shot. $79 from Reloaders Supplies, in case anyone is interested.
(http://s4.postimage.org/1QdhtJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1QdhtJ)
This also solved the ballast question I had with my Zwarte Zee, so I have made some progress on that too.
As a small diversion to the main subject of this thread, I managed to get the deck on the stern of the Zwarte Zee once it was all ballasted correctly, which will allow me to get on with other areas of that build too.
(http://s2.postimage.org/P5YcS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsP5YcS)
I also put the rest of the superstructure together. Rigging is rather fiddly...
(http://s3.postimage.org/2UW8r.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2UW8r)
But I got there eventually.
All this ballast available lead (no pun intended) me to progress with sorting out the big boat. I needed to get a 12V SLA to drive the boat, so I ended up with a 12V 9AH SLA that weighs in at 2.560Kg. With this in place I realised that I could probably have a larger dry compartment in the hull and then need to pump water into only two areas - having put three litres of water into a big resealable bag and seeing how it fitted in. The end result is this:
(http://s3.postimage.org/2V2CS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2V2CS)
To the left in this image is the stern section with propshaft, motor, rudder etc. There is in this shot a bar-bell weight of 2.5Kg's in the same compartment. I reasoned that, if I needed an all-up weight of 18Kg's in the hull, then that would work out to be 6KG's in each of the three areas in the main rectangular hull. This all leaves me shy of that 6Kg's there by about 400 grams that I can easily make up with lead if I have to. This compartment I have also opened up into the stern section so that I can get access to the pulleys and belt that will drive the boat. By the way the battery and weight are located in place with 14mm thick ply blocks I have glued and screwed into place. The battery and the weight are also removable - meaning that with these two items present just on 5.5Kg's of static weight that I can remove to move the hull around.
Yes there is another bar-bell weight that I am using. Basically I wanted to make sure that I had some lead sitting around after the main static ballast had been put in place for trimming etc. Because I know that I can easily get three litres of water into the remaining compartments I took the opportunity to add some other weight at a cheaper price. This is in the forward section of the rectangular hull:
(http://s1.postimage.org/pUvnA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxpUvnA)
It is also removable, however, I suspect it will need to become permanently fixed in place as, with a water tank on top and possibly around it, getting to it might be hard!
Next steps:
- Finish sorting the static ballast
- Move onto dynamic (water) ballast
Whilst waiting for the roofer to come back from holiday I was busy looking at photos of the superstructure and started framing the opening in the stern section that superstructure will sit on.
(http://s1.postimage.org/pURPS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxpURPS)
I also came a cross a detail (I laugh at myself so much sometimes...) that I had previously missed and that is at the bow, the deck raises up at an angle. I noticed this two ways, firstly in a photo taken from the stern during lightering operations it is clear that the desk at the bow is on a angle and secondly the GA plan I have shows the coaming rising at an angle, but other photos show that the height of the coaming above the deck is a constant. Therefore I have added a section that raises up at the bow.
A view from directly above:
(http://s3.postimage.org/2W6YJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2W6YJ)
And from the side and slightly above:
(http://s3.postimage.org/2W9sS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2W9sS)
Even now the coaming is not complete - it shouldn't extend as far as I have it currently. Partway around the curve of the bow as it comes back from the bow, the coaming disappears down to deck level. The raised section was build using two sections of 7mm ply, the idea being that someday I might want to tow this around and really wanted to be able to anchor some bollards down really well. These two bits of ply are glued and screwed in place.
Anyway, TTFN!
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Hoo boy! 5 months and no progress! Anyone would think I had given up... Well I haven't, but then I haven't done anything on this project either.
The Zwarte Zee has been the centre of attention when I've been doing anything boat-wise.
However, in last post, in the 6th photo, there was the smaller of the two bar-bell weights. What mad logic possessed me to put that in, I have no idea, but it is gone as of tonight. Oh - it was probably the lack of lead sheet! Of course the roofer came back from Fiji and duly supplied a pile of pre-loved lead sheet which I have cleaned up with a wire brush and flattened with a hammer. The result is that this takes place of the lead shot as main ballast - saving the shot for other tasks. This will mean that the two compartments that will have the dynamic ballast will be nice regular shapes and not have any bar-bell protrusions in them.
I'm not expecting to make a lot of progress any time soon as the ZZ is main focus of attention at the moment, but I thought this was worth a short update, if only to show that this is not a forgotten project!
Does anyone know if windscreen washer pumps will be suitable to use for the water ballast? I presume that they can be reversed?
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AlisterL ...12 volt windscreen washer pumps are manufactured in two varities.....
1. centrifugal impellor style
2. gear on gear pump design
The latter is totally functional in reversable mode.....so for either inlet/outlet = suction/discharge....available in OZ @ K Mart Auto for approx AUD$12.00 ..or the local hobby shop for AUD$24.00
Naturally the hobby shop also has the silicone tubing & the double 8 wire grip clamps to suit :-)) ... Derek
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Derek - brilliant info - thanks very much!
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Well it has been a long time since I posted on this topic. Almost all that time has been spent waiting to find a solution to the water pump problem. I tried ordering some Graupner pumps from a place in the UK - I think it was Cornwall Model Boats as they were listed as being in stock on the website. Except they weren't and I didn't find that out until the prop I also ordered arrived and the pumps didn't. The prop is a nice Raboesch 5 blader that looks the part. I contacted another UK supplier and was told they were out of stock of pumps too. I tried a local model boat specialist who list Graupner pumps on their website. Quite frankly I was very disappointed by the response - I don't think that they even knew what was on their website and they could not help and didn't even really try. I guess they make heaps of money and don't need my business... Eventually and in desperation I went to an auto parts supplier and found what looked like an appropriate windscreen washer pump. Most non-reversible pumps appear to have a inlet or outlet (not sure which it is) located directly in the middle of the pump housing, in-line with the motor. The pumps I spotted had the inlet and outlet on opposite sides if the housing - that looked promising - so I grabbed one to test. Low and behold, even though there is a arrow imprinted onto the pump housing, they do reverse and they do seem to flow evenly in both directions. Problem solved - so I went a bought another three :) In the course of my testing I discovered that the pumps get quite warm if running for any length of time and knowing that I was going to need to run them for at least a minute I figured I needed to cool them. All this took place before Christmas and I decided that before I actually did anything else I needed to finish of the Zwarte Zee - which from other posts I have made in the last day or two has been done.
My favourite method to cool these pumps was to have them pump that cooling water themselves. I sourced some 1/8" external diameter aluminium tube (I looked for copper but it doesn't seem to be available in 36" lengths at that diameter) and proceeded to make four cooling coils. The way I do this is to crimp one end of the tube with some pliers and then fill it with sand, making sure I tap the tube frequently to get the sand to settle properly. I make use of a funnel to get the sand in easily. With 1/8" tube I was able to do two at once. Once full I crimp the other end of the tube a wrap it around a suitable object. For these pumps a standard 'C' cell was the business.
Some photos of the process:
Coils under construction, not cut, just bent:
(http://s2.postimage.org/1z0y9chno/P1000257.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1z0y9chno/)
Note that one of the tubes (the lower one on the picture) actually broke as I was bending it. I think this was due to not holding the tube tight to the battery and allowing the initial bend to get sharper and go past it's limit.
Two of the coils cut from the leftover tube and awaiting sand removal:
(http://s2.postimage.org/1z1opy1k4/P1000259.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1z1opy1k4/)
So the process of filling with sand then bending 4 tubes took about 20 minutes. When all were bent I cut off the excess tube and proceeded to empty the sand out. This is a laborious process involving lots of tapping, turning, frustration, cursing, high pressure air, more tapping, boredom and eventually success. I think it took a good 10 minutes to empty each one.
Each coil is then fitted to the pump as shown below:
(http://s3.postimage.org/2ejus6mdg/P1000260.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2ejus6mdg/)
And that job is done. I then had to figure out final placement and so forth. Given that these will be sitting on lead sheet filling tanks that are on lead sheet I had to finish the lead sheet ballast. I have now got approximately 10Kg's of lead sheet cut and that means my static weight is going to be around the 13 - 14kg mark! The other thing that became apparent is that I need to finish the underside of the hull before fixing the lead in place. So that will be the next piece of work to be done - f/g cloth, epoxy and finishing, including painting (meaning I need to find the colour) to continue.
Watch this space!
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More progress has been made.
Last weekend I was able to apply some F/G mat on both the bow and stern areas. Unfortunately I ran out of cloth after I had done the stern area and had to go get some more. Model shops in NZ seem not to carry these products any more, but I was referred to a supplier of all things F/G related who had something appropriate to use, if not the same as what I had before.
That had pretty much all week to cure and last night I started sanding. That has worked out quite well and, maybe because I ended up using a Black & Decker multi-sander on the bigger areas, I was able to get it done quote quickly. 80 grit sandpaper get through it quote quickly!
Due to the epoxy I've been using being bought from a hardware store the cure time on it was surprisingly long. This has meant that even though I kept an eye on it, the epoxy has left runs down some of the surfaces. Some of the areas are a little thicker than others and some a little thinner than others. I've gotten all the high areas out, but where there are bits that I can't sand smooth because they are too low I am filling with body filler. The stern was the easiest to deal with and has given the best result after sanding. The bow needs quite a bit of attention with the filler. That is drying now.
(http://s1.postimage.org/2zqtho6ro/Bog_On_FG.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2zqtho6ro/)
End update :)
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This week has been a long progression of bog-work and sanding. Multiple applications of bog have been required to get everything right, but we have finished with all of that.
Some shots of the progress:
(http://s1.postimage.org/2ml3ceu10/Hull_WBog.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2ml3ceu10/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2ml9yk804/Fwd_Bog_Over_Epoxy.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2ml9yk804/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2mli88yh0/Aft_Bog_Over_Epoxy.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2mli88yh0/)
You can see from the different colours of the bog the different mixes that have been applied.
Note that the white filler that can be seen is Polyfilla, a typical home-handyman product and it is sealed under epoxy, cloth and more epoxy.
Sanding the bog was done with 80 grit, 120 grit, 220 grit and finally 800 grit papers and its fair to say I went through quite a bit. After the 800 grit paper, the hull is very smooth to the touch and after a weekend away and did all the catch-up mowing and car-cleaning, I was able to wash the hull off with water and a cloth to get rid of all the dust that the vacuum cleaner and brush wouldn't remove.
So that part is all done and now I need to move on to sorting out the rudder and it's construction. I had some inspiration on that front, but it might take a while for it all to come together. When there is progress, I will update.
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So, a day off work can do wonders for progress - this was quicker to do than I thought it would be.
As a picture paints a thousand words, here's a picture of the unassembled rudder bits - I hope it's self explanatory (BTW, that pic is slightly larger than my normal, so the detail is visible):
(http://s4.postimage.org/237n89t2c/Rudder_Assembly.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/237n89t2c/)
I used a tap and die to thread the hole in the supporting metal strip at the right of the image and then to turn the thread onto the short piece of 1/8th brass rod. I hadn't done this sort of work for quite a while, so even though it's not perfect, I think it will do the job.
The next step will be to assemble this...
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So I was thinking about how this arrangement would work and was trying to convince myself that it would actually work. Mostly I was concerned that in trying to get the rudder blade onto the rudder shaft, the rudder shaft would disappear up into the hull where I wouldn't reach it (as it will be buried under the aft deck), as there was nothing to hold it in place. After a bit of thought I decided I needed a circlip on the rudder shaft to stop it being pushed back up into the hull. I even thought I had previously salvaged a circlip from a toy, but couldn't find it - so I had to make one. Unfortunately the photos I took of this were all a bit too blurry to use, so all I have is a photo of the incomplete circlip after I'd tested it on a bit of spare brass rod. I cut down the diameter of the rod using a hacksaw and sawing gently while rotating the rod. The whole thing actually worked quite well!
(http://s1.postimage.org/1tghbwhj8/Circlip.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1tghbwhj8/)
After I'd gotten started I realised that the circlip could in fact be permanently attached to the shaft, so I ended up soldering it in place which I did with standard solder and a gas torch - the soldering iron didn't produce enough heat.
Here's a pic of the shaft and unfinished rudder:
(http://s1.postimage.org/1thg26rwk/Rudder_And_Post.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1thg26rwk/)
Anyway, after much fitting and fettling and so on, I got his far:
(http://s1.postimage.org/1ti1k6abo/Rudder_And_Prop_Shaft.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1ti1k6abo/)
Notice, if you will, the proximity of the end of the prop shaft to the edge of the rudder... This became a bit of a problem when the prop was fitted, as the Raboesch prop has (had!) a lovely tapered cone at the end. It was either sacrifice this fine piece of metal work or some of the rudder - and given the size of the rudder vs. the length of the model, it had to be the prop... I also added some 16th ply to sides of the rudder and gave it a bit of shape. The end result is this:
(http://s4.postimage.org/ksz3idus/Rudder_And_Prop.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ksz3idus/)
By removing the bottom bracket that the rudder sits on, the rudder can come off allowing the prop and prop shaft to be removed. Also the rudder shaft can drop out. With the circlip riding on the end of the rudder tube everything can be reassembled. The end of the prop needs tidying up some more, but that will probably need a lathe (something I don't have) as the end of the prop is now right about level with the tips of the propellor blades make a file unuseable.
In that last pic the rudder tube is also fixed into the hull with superglue at the bottom end, so that is now a permanent fixture.
I hope that you are not finding these posts to wordy - I seem to have this need to explain what it is I'm doing along with the pics...
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Dear-o-dear, how time flies - last post was just over 14 months ago... Good grief...
At least in that time I've built one other boat (the Hibbard) and also fitted out a fibreglass hull for my sons first boat too.
So I started looking at what the next steps were and decided that, with all the lead that was going to be permanently in the hull, I needed to get everything under the waterline sorted out before the lead went in - I didn't want to be turning the boat over once the lead was put in and risk it falling out...
Looking at the hull, I realised that there were quite a few little pinholes in the epoxy covering that needed to be sorted out. So I took the hull outside and sprayed grey all over it - the idea being that once sanded back I would be able to see the highs and lows in the hull:
(http://s17.postimage.org/s228xyjob/Hull_grey_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/s228xyjob/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/bfkoovqqj/Hull_grey_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/bfkoovqqj/)
After sanding back, I started with the filler. The light grey is the Tamiya filler. It works quite nicely:
(http://s18.postimage.org/fe5y7xwp1/hull_more_sanding_filling.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fe5y7xwp1/)
After several days of doing that, the hull is actually quite nice and, from that perspective ready to paint.
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Arrgh - just hit the wrong red X in the top right and closed Chrome down in the middle of composing my post.
One of the things I was waiting for inspiration with was the kort nozzle. I couldn't figure out how to do it. I made several attempts to make it our of plastic strip and these all ended up as irregular ovals rather than nice circles. My sister-in-law solved the problem for me by getting a new boyfriend who works at a company that make carbon fibre fittings and bits and pieces for superyachts (southernspars.com - could be a useful chap to get to know?!) Anyway, he provided, after several reminders, a couple of suitable bits to use. After a bit of mucking about we ended up with:
(http://s8.postimage.org/wcltsfr2p/Kort_Nozzle_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/wcltsfr2p/)
Not totally as per regulations, but sufficient for the purpose. I attached to short lengths of 0.7mm brass wire to it top and bottom to locate it to the hull - the grey on the nozzle is the filler I used to smooth the glue (epoxy) out.
With prop in place (not location of the securing nut (lol):
(http://s17.postimage.org/x1hs6bcpn/Kort_prop_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x1hs6bcpn/)
Both of these photos were taken after dark, so the detail is not stellar...
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The other bits that I felt needed to be sorted out prior to paint were the bits what were the anchors go up to - not the hawse pipes themselves (if I even have that term right...) but the big fat bumper bits on the bow where the anchor rests - these bits:
(http://s7.postimage.org/vgm68s19z/Whats_This_Called.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vgm68s19z/)
I have no idea what these are called, so if someone can tell me I will have learnt something else today!
Anyway, they needed to be made. I considered several approaches including gluing or soldering several washers together to make them and molding them with epoxy as I had done with other bits. But I couldn't find suitable washers and neither could I figure out what to make a mold out of.
Several weeks went by and then on Good Friday I was looking at all the crap I have on my shelves and spotted a plastic container of solder. "Hmm..." I thought, "there may be a use for that" and there was! So I took the remaining solder out and cut the tube into pieces then hot-glued them to a bit of play to use as a base:
(http://s13.postimage.org/q0jq6u31f/Anchor_Bits_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/q0jq6u31f/)
I then mixed up the remainder of my epoxy and poured it into the tubes and let it set.
Today (Easter Monday) I removed the hot melt glue, prized the tubes and epoxy off the ply and cut the tube. Fortunately the epoxy didn't stick to the tube at all (I was counting the fact that it might not), so once the tube was cut, it came away quite easily:
(http://s18.postimage.org/88nugcjb9/Anchor_Bits_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/88nugcjb9/)
I then drilled a 5/32 hole through the centre of each bit, into which I put a 5/32 screw and fixed that in place with a nut. This I then placed into the drill in my drill press and, having marked out the length I wanted, proceeded, with the drill running, to use a small hacksaw, held horizontally and still (the drill turning provided the cutting motion, all I had to do was adjust the depth of the blade continuously), to cut away the excess:
(http://s17.postimage.org/vxy4dq90b/Anchor_Bits_3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vxy4dq90b/)
Half an hour or so's work with, sandpaper, chisel and rasp allowed me to shape and profile the cured epoxy to what I wanted - more or less:
(http://s7.postimage.org/4hw3iuiyf/Anchor_Bits_4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4hw3iuiyf/)
Since this last photo I have removed some of the excess of the smaller diameter length as it was too long, and now, to my eye, it looks good. I may revisit that again, and I still need to do the other one too.
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That was a very cunning bit of construction....if I may make so bold. :-))
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you may - and thank you :)
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And now a pair:
(http://s18.postimage.org/onm1rufjp/Anchor_Bits5.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/onm1rufjp/)
which are waiting to be fitted, which may well take place this afternoon, all things being equal.
Anyone going to tell me what they are called?
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I believe that the main reason for these fixtures is to allow the Anchor to clear the Hull at the Bulb. If the Hawsers were flush to the hull the Anchor would scrape the hull everytime they let it go.
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Hi Michael,
Thank you - I'd figured out what they were for, but wondered if they had a specific name. Never mind...
So I did indeed glue "them" on and then puttied them up with some of that good Tamiya stuff. After a bit of sanding they come out like this:
(http://s18.postimage.org/bhqgrqs05/Anchor_Bits6.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/bhqgrqs05/)
(http://s9.postimage.org/pelc9wpyj/Anchor_Bits7.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pelc9wpyj/)
Once I had done that I decided to get a bit of undercoat on it:
(http://s10.postimage.org/4jry7l9hx/Undercoat1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4jry7l9hx/)
(http://s16.postimage.org/deex7m4ch/Undercoat2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/deex7m4ch/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/q9zrwtnb9/Undercoat3.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/q9zrwtnb9/)
This is the hull as it is now, with two coats of good quality undercoat/primer/sealer on it (Dulux brand if anyone is interested), but not rubbed down in between. What I found was that, like Bryan Young (at least I think it was Bryan!) once the paint was on and I could see it in daylight, what I thought was smooth was most definitely not. I figured two good coats would help fill some of the smaller imperfections up a bit, and given that there is no detail on the hull, I wasn't going to be hiding anything.
So there we are, awaiting some sanding, which I hope will be today.
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Guys....yes they have three functions....... :o
1. to make the take up point outboard of the hull
2. to provide a wear band [ring] so the anchor chain doesn't wear the hull away
3. as a structural reinforcement so the anchor doesn't burst through the hull plating before the anchor winch relief valves open.....when hauling in
%) Derek
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So there was indeed more sanding and filling to sort out the highs and lows, but we got there eventually.
After a bit of a lay-off, caused by tripping around the place, including visiting St. Evenage (or something like that...) and recovering, I went in search of some paint. I liked the idea of representing the Jahre Viking as she is (was...) in that really rusty red-orange finish. It would I suspect have been relatively easy to go with the Seawise Giant colours of green and black - but anyone can paint a tanker those colours and call it real, so I thought this was more interesting.
Well interesting is one word, but it culminated in spending about an hour in the local Bunnings at the paint desk. Bunnings in NZ is a hardware, tools, wood, gardening, landscaping type place, not quite the same as they are in Aus I understand. Anyhoo, I took a couple of scanned photos in and said what I was after, and to the credit of the staff they took a real interest in getting a good colour for me. We ended up with a true red base with a heck of a lot of orange tint in it. It's actually a gloss that I got, so the top coats will require a light sanding to remove that finish. Thus far two coats have been applied by hand and left for a week. Today I was able to get a bit of wet and dry done on the hull to see how it comes up.
(http://s18.postimage.org/68wjj6lk5/Topcoat1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/68wjj6lk5/)
(http://s13.postimage.org/pklb1d6oz/topcoat2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pklb1d6oz/)
Not too bad all said and done - needs a few more coats however and I may resort to using my airbrush - I just need to decide whether that will make life easier or not.
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So after all that I did resort to the airbrush... The first attempt worked quite well, but the second didn't and I took quite a long time - in excess of 30 minutes each time. I think I had thinnned down the paint too much and I just wasn't getting the coverage. Bored with that I went and got an automotive touch up gun. Which worked much better, but prefers a thicker paint consistency and doesn't require much thinning. The only downside to this is the orange peel effect which I have been sanding out...
(http://s7.postimage.org/hqx2b7bl3/After_Rub_Down1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/hqx2b7bl3/)
(http://s18.postimage.org/b7kz077qd/After_Rub_Down2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/b7kz077qd/)
Yes it is wet - it's hanging up to dry.
The other thing that was done in between painting and rubbing down was coat the inside of the hull, particularly the plywood areas with polyester resin to water proof it.
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After lots of mucking about with various things, we find that not only does it float, but the pumps now work.
Video url: [size=78%]https://youtu.be/By8uTcFMbEg (https://youtu.be/By8uTcFMbEg)[/size]
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Blinking Eck Alistair. Talk about long duration build!. When I saw the title I thought 'not noticed that topic before' Then I saw the date it began :o :o
I now need to go back and read it all from the beginning, but glad to see you are back on it, hopefully it'll be finished before 2020 {-) {-)
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it'll be ready for the scrap yard by the time he finishes, lol :}
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Haha - maybe before 2020. Good thing the ply was treated however :)
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After some mucking around - quite a bit actually this is the layout internally.
[/size]
[/size]First the aft section with the RC and Drive gear in it:
[/size]
[/size](http://s6.postimg.org/okyqgrrhp/RCand_Drive.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/okyqgrrhp/)
[/size]
[/size]Fairly standard except for:
[/size]1: the relay and switch that powers everything on - bottom left.
[/size]2: servo used to power the pumps (forward and reverse). This controlled from a 3-way switch on my Turnigy 9x (I knew that would be useful eventually!)
[/size]
[/size]Aft ballast tank:
[/size]
[/size](http://s6.postimg.org/98ezmqsbx/Aft_Ballast_Tank.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/98ezmqsbx/)
[/size]
[/size]Notable for all the pipes running through it that carry power cables in various direction. Also notable for the leak that I hope I have now fixed.
[/size]All the screw holes are for the 2mm HIP styrene sheet cover that goes on it.
[/size]
[/size]Central battery and pump space:
[/size]
[/size](http://s6.postimg.org/s5ulzzw19/Batteryand_Pumps.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s5ulzzw19/)
[/size]
[/size]I think i mentioned in previous post that the pumps are windscreen washers. It turns out that the orginal motors that they were attached to were slow and, as one had a leak, prone to rust. I removed the motors and discovered the pumps used a gear mechanism - yay. In order to make the now motorless pumps work again i resorted to the arrangement you see, turning the pulleys out of some nylon rod on my (new to me) very old Sherline lathe. This, in testing, seems to works well and quite quickly.
[/size]
[/size]I have also abandoned the 12v SLA battery as too heavy and unable to support the current draw for the pump motors, which runs to about 9 amps while running. 2 x 2200mAh LiPo's are now used. It also means 2.5g's that I no longer need to lug around.
[/size]
[/size]Forward ballast tank:
[/size]
[/size](http://s6.postimg.org/tyxiobh7x/Forward_Ballast_Tank.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/tyxiobh7x/)
[/size]
[/size]Similar to the aft, but fewer pipes for wiring.
[/size]In both tanks I had set the aluminium angle bar on the side of the hull - then realised that this gave me no room to remove the styrene sheet covering for each tank should I need to - which I will as the pumps don't quite empty the tanks. So these were rebuilt to inset the sides by about 20mm.
[/size]
[/size]Forward pumps:
[/size]
[/size](http://s6.postimg.org/qo95ofral/Forward_Pumps.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qo95ofral/)
[/size]
[/size]Same principle as the centre pumps.
[/size]
[/size]
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Sorry about the HTML tags in the last post - they didn't seem to want to go away...
So, having sorted all that out I needed to figure out how the deck was going to work - particularly around access to the various spaces in the hull.
Having previously purchased some 2mm HIP styrene sheet for the purpose, cut some to length and width and stared at it for a while.
This morning I have been using the card model I purchased and started as a reference for laying out the major items on the deck in pencil.
Aft superstructure section:
(http://s6.postimg.org/pgqmihbsd/Deck1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pgqmihbsd/)
With any luck you will be able to see the pencil marks.
Centre-aft section:
(http://s6.postimg.org/r9tj6swz1/Deck2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r9tj6swz1/)
Centre-forward section:
(http://s6.postimg.org/8wxj9zbvx/Deck3.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8wxj9zbvx/)
You can just see where the deck starts to turn in to the bow.
This is still loose at the moment - not glued in place.
My thoughts are to cut out a section from the aft end of the superstructure around the long structures that run along the length of the hull and then to the end of this sheet. This would provide one big removable section that has the superstructure and most of the pipework on it allowing access to the hull - rather than many little bits. This would also allow assembly of the pipework and stuff off the model.
At this stage I'm not sure whether I will cut this section out entirely before affixing the outer edge of the deck or if I should score the removable section, but leave it still attached during the gluing process to make sure that it all stays aligned properly.
Decisions, decisions...
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https://youtu.be/WX2HFVHbo18
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One of the things that I thought that I would not do was put a curve in the deck across the width of the hull. For various reasons I decided that this wasn't necessary. However, having cut the deck out and looking at it sitting on the hull it seemed to me that it needed to be there.
Using the card model as a template I was able to figure out what the radius of the arc needed to be - it turns our that there is a mathematical formula that can be used to calculate the radius of a circle for a known length of chord and the height above it. My radius was about 1.12m.
I scribed out the arc on some plastic strip and cut them roughly to shape and glued them in place with 5 min. epoxy. Once in place I used a 600mm straight edge ruler to find the highs and lows, and it turns out the edges of the straight edge were sharp enough that I could use it to scrape the pastic, peeling a then strip of each time and get them to a regular shape.
Aft view:
(http://s6.postimg.org/4elrt6e3x/Aft_Deck_Curve.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4elrt6e3x/)
Fwd view:
(http://s6.postimg.org/44e99tzhp/Fwd_Deck_Curve.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/44e99tzhp/)
You can also see above the ballast tanks and the centre battery compartment where I added extra support at the sides to support the curve in these places. These support are made out of several thicknesses of the 2mm styrene glued, together then to the hull. They cannot go all the way across the hull as I want to be able to take the plastic top off the tanks.
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I needed then to make sure that the curve of the deck was carried onto the removable centre section. Instead of using styrene for this I used pre-shaped 12mm square pine lengths that I cut as neccessary for the width - as the width across the centre section does vary. I decided to use pine as I felt that the plastic would be likely to twist along its length and not offer the support i needed, especially when it was off the hull. I offered the pine up to the nearest and/or most appropriate plastic strip previously shaped and traced it onto the pine. I then shaped the curve on the pine with a spoke-shave. This seemed to work very well - after I sharpened the spoke-shave :)
These pieces of pine were then glued into the appropriate place under the deck with 24hr epoxy thus:
Aft:
(http://s6.postimg.org/bvuz8e3n1/Aft_Underside.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bvuz8e3n1/)
Forward:
(http://s6.postimg.org/52umc4ctp/Fwd_Underside_Curve.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/52umc4ctp/)
When dry and sitting in place on the hull we get this:
(http://s6.postimg.org/6tdndluct/Deck_Sitting_In_Place.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6tdndluct/)
So the next - and big step - is to glue the deck down onto the hull. I may procrastinate about this for a while... And yes I know the bench is a mess!
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A quick update.
I put the deck on - 24hr Araldite did the trick.
I had the deck on for about 3 weekends and during that time increasingly came to the realisation that the top edges of the hull where the deck was glued down were not as straight and level as I had thought. I presume that when I was sanding the top of the hull down that I introduced this wonky-ness to it.
So the deck came off - surprisingly easily I have to say - it just pealed off with minimum effort.
And now I am trying to address the problem...
Hopefully another update not too far away.
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So I've spent a couple of weekends now trying to get the top of the hull sides level - well relatively level, and that's relative to each other. To say that this was causing trouble is an understatement. I tried a number of methods, including passing the hull under a mill - and none of it got really close enough.
Fortunately my father understands these engineering issues and was able to gift a me a dial indicator and stand, nominally for use with my small lathe, but this does also work for anything else once a reference point is established.
I wont go into all the permutations that it took to get this far, but I realised on Saturday afternoon after having sanded off completely another application of bog that I really needed to do this is one attempt and that doing a bit here, a bit there and moving the hull in between was causing the relative heights to change. I think this was because the surface that I was working on was not truly flat and as a result when I moved the hull, as I had to to be able to get the stand and dial indicator to all the places it needed to go meant that it was giving relatively incorrect readings.
Anyway, on Sunday I put the hull on the garage floor and got on with it.
(http://s6.postimg.org/cegvcz4od/Aft_Bog.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cegvcz4od/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/z4kljpd9p/Fore_bog.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/z4kljpd9p/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/tqh7yey5p/Aft_X_s.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/tqh7yey5p/)
In the last image you can see the X's marked on - these are the points that are now at the correct height (depth). Eventually I got it all done. The side of the hull are now within about a 1/2mm all the way around. Phew...
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Going back several months, to when I started doing the pump testing, I kept having to go to the club pond, about 1/2 an hour's drive away. One of the members suggested that I make a tank at home for it so I could test quickly and easily. Well I'm not sure why i hadn't done that, but I bought some wood and some heavy PVC/plastic stuff (used for lining garden ponds) and built one. Initially I bought a length of garden hose with which to drain it, but decided after several uses that a plug and drain would be much easier, so retrofitted a drain and life became (in this regard anyway) much easier.
(http://s6.postimg.org/gdio9jip9/Test_Tank.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gdio9jip9/)
Amazing what you can achieve WRT updating your build when you are procrastinating at work!
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So having achieved regular hull sides I needed to re-incorporate the frames that would shape the curve of the deck. Instead of using plastic this time I decided to use wood. I found some pine strip that someone previously had discarded as offcuts and use those. I used the removable deck section as a template to get the curve right and then using a plane and electric sander got them to shape.
I then located these into the hull by cutting into the side of the hull and glued them in with PVA.
(http://s6.postimg.org/mlhhpseb1/JV_Before_Fettling_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mlhhpseb1/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/oaqkxuu0d/JV_Before_Fettling_2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/oaqkxuu0d/)
I glued them as one piece right across the top of the ballast tanks as shown in the picture, then cut them away when the glue was dried. The glue has stuck well as I have been able to pick the entire model up by holding on to just two of these.
I also took the opportunity to check that these frames were the right profile. Most were sitting a little high in the centre so I corrected this using a spoke shave.
Next was to sand all the edges of the frames appropriately which took about an hour os this afternoon. When this was done and all was fair I scored the bog ready to accept the glue for the deck.
(http://s6.postimg.org/gj9uzapv1/JV_After_Fettling_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gj9uzapv1/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/l2m3kt7ql/JV_After_Fettling_2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/l2m3kt7ql/)
Current weight is 13.5 Kg's BTW...
Next step is the deck (again).
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I was feeling brave this morning...
(http://s6.postimg.org/bbxymbo19/Deck_Down1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bbxymbo19/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/6orwkk0od/Deck_Down2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6orwkk0od/)
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24 hours later and the glue is dry - so off comes the tape.
I gave the edges a good sanding then applied the car panel filler that I used previously, sanded again and then used Tamiya plastic filler. I find the Tamiya filler is very good for fine work and fills small holes and so-on very nicely.
(http://s6.postimg.org/z4ggpc4tp/Deck_On1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/z4ggpc4tp/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/5nw99692l/Deck_On2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5nw99692l/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/ellkk9qwd/Deck_On3.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ellkk9qwd/)
And with the removable section sitting in place:
(http://s6.postimg.org/f0wudactp/All_Decks1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/f0wudactp/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/5nw99692l/Deck_On2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5nw99692l/)
This is MUCH better than it was previously.
Merry XMas to all :)
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So, back from holiday and finished doing all the necessary stuff that must be done.
Also set up the external test tank - again the kids seem to think it's for swimming in not testing boats, but there we go...
So on to the Deck - everything now fits a lot better than it did, but the removable deck is still sitting a little high in some places along it's length. This I am addressing as I go with Neodymium magnets - standard ferrite magnets just do not have the strength to do the job , and the Neodymium magnets are smaller as well.
(http://s6.postimg.org/r0n3g3wx9/Deck1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r0n3g3wx9/)
You can also see in this image the "U" section aluminium that I have put in place to support the deck. This had to be cut down as the smallest size I could get was 10mm x 10mm and while I was happy with the 10mm width, the 10mm height had to come down significantly. This was a real pain to do as I couldn't figure out a way to do it easily and accurately (I don't have a mill). I ended up using a jigsaw clamped into my bench vice to do the initial cut and them a big file to finish them by hand held in a engineers vice. I decided to cut them down to about 3 - 4mm as I could not get them flat enough by hand, meaning I would need to use some styrene as the finishing face to set the height correctly.
Aluminium glued and screwed in place - along with the facing styrene:
(http://s6.postimg.org/mdh1ec9kd/Deck2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mdh1ec9kd/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/kke4q0odp/Deck_Magnets1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/kke4q0odp/)
I felt that I need to make a frame up to support the outer vertical sides of this feature, so cut 24 lengths of 1mm x 5mm styrene and glued it in place. Again, accuracy was an issue and I found that I was a 1/2 mm or more out on some of the initial lengths that I marked and cut by hand. A jig of some sort was the answer, so a very simply one was made up with a small square and a clamp to hold it in place while a chisel was use to cut the styrene:
(http://s6.postimg.org/kcqhtidf1/Deck_Jig.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/kcqhtidf1/)
With all of these in place and some of the outer sides in place (made of 2mm styrene) also glued in:
(http://s6.postimg.org/dl02qnofh/Deck3.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/dl02qnofh/)
You may be able to see that the ends of the vertical face against the aluminium extend past the ends of the aluminium - I may remove these. At this point these ends are not glued down to the deck and I am concerned that, as the deck is moved about, they would flex and either break off or separate from the deck. Also the 1mm styrene is probably too thick for this part 0.7mm or 0.5mm may be more appropriate and better fitted when the deck is more rigid.
More as it happens.
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During the week I was able to get other other side of the deck done. Just needs fettling a bit. I did chop the ends off as I thought they were a bit vulnerable at this stage.
(http://s6.postimg.org/534erjm25/Deck_Thingy_Pt2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/534erjm25/)
With that done (and yes I know they are uncovered) I felt it time to start on the super structure.
I hummed and hah'd a bit (as I do) then downloaded Sketchup and drew the Engineering SS up. This took a couple of hours to do, but meant that I was able to calculate dimensions and print views as needed. If I had a 3D printer I could have sent it to that... Alas...
For those that are interested the drawing is here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B209xZxYK7f5QmhCT2dDQ0xnRk0) - you will need to download it and get Sketchup (free) to view what I have done.
If you do download it you will see the dimensions are in metres. I am building to these numbers - but in centimetres, i.e. if it says 5.0M, I'm cutting 5.0 centimetres. This is quite interesting when comparing the height of the SS to the length of the hull...
Some bits of the SS cut out with some printed plans to the rear:
(http://s6.postimg.org/rds9rijcd/Engineering_SSBits.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rds9rijcd/)
One of the things I've had trouble with is cutting ling thin bits of plastic straight - even with a straight-edge ruler they still seem to go wonky. I think I'm changing the angle of the blade as I draw it down the length of the ruler - I don't think the ruler is moving. If I was cutting something 20 or 30mm wide it would be less of an issue - when it's 5mm then being out by 1/2 or 1mm is a fair bit. I've also had trouble with getting the width of these long thin strips accurate. Accurate and wrong would be workable - wrong and wonky isn't...
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Starting to assemble some of the pieces:
(http://s6.postimg.org/8mm7mzgbx/20160118_190623.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8mm7mzgbx/)
I added some pieces of styrene at a right angle along the length of some of the walls to correct a curve in the plastic. I also added small right-angle triangle pieces to ensure that assembly was done squarely.
(http://s6.postimg.org/ygw0crgbx/20160120_080425.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ygw0crgbx/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/p7tu2n7fx/20160120_080445.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/p7tu2n7fx/)
And just for a laugh, here is the view down the hull with the Engineering tower(?) sitting in place:
(http://s6.postimg.org/xtx3n8jfx/20160120_080641.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xtx3n8jfx/)
Another thought is how will I do stanchions and railings at 1:300?
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G'day Alister,
For cutting your Styrene you need an Olfa P450 Cutter ( If they are still available).
I've been using one for well over 20 years in my model manufacturing business and it allows you to cut a very straight line, because unlike a craft knife or scalpel, it doesn't actually cut, but shaves out a sliver of plastic as you draw it forward towards you. It's a bit like a plough, but leaves a slight burr on either side of the cut, and this is easily removed by dragging a craft knife blade along the edge which actually de-burrs the edge.
I use it on thicknesses from .3mm to 2.5mm and depending on the thickness, this determines how much pressure you apply to the knife. Generally after the first score on thin sheet you simply bend the sheet backwards from the score line and it snaps quite cleanly, so the idea is not to try and cut right through.
On the very thick material I generally score two or three times with the P450, then cut further with a craft knife before trying to snap the cut.
If you need any more help, drop me a PM as I'm just across the ditch.
Ian
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Railings at 1/300? Have you thought about brass etched railings?
Have a look at www.ppdltd.com. I've used them for similar stuff.
Try a scalpel with a 10 or 11 blade for your styrene. The score and snap method usually works pretty well.
Steve
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Hi Ian and Steve,
thanks both for your replies.
Ian that device looks quite useful - I had a quick Google and it looks like there many of these things around.
Steve - I was mostly thinking along the "how will I build it" line and had only thought a little about photo-etching but hadn't investigated - I'll check out that link you provided. The issue with cutting the plastic is that on a long cut I couldn't guarantee keeping the line straight. It is definitely a "user" issue - I struggle to cut anything straight and square, it's a failing of mine.
Thanks again to both of you.
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http://www.greatart.co.uk/BigDraw/Drawing-Accessories/Scissors-Cutters/Olfa-P-800-Cutter.html is a link for uk members.
Re straight cuts. I made a little cutting board with a raised lip so that when I draw the blade back the drag is resisted and the inch wide steel rule that I cut alongside also remains at 90 degrees to the lip. It works for me but I'm sure there are other ways to do it. Enjoying your build too.
Dave
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Starting the week of the 25th (well the starting from the 23rd if I counted the weekend) I was on leave looking after the kids before they went back to school. I thought that I should be able to make some progress then.
I started drawing up plans for the bridge/crew areas in Sketchup as I had the engineering spaces. This, due to being a bit more complex, took a bit longer and I had several hours invested in it, when, during the process of deleting some of the guidelines I had put it, I deleted the entire vertical face on one side and discovered that I had skued some of the services on the drawing as well. Correcting this took about two hours and I chose not to correct those items that where mirrored on the other side of the structure, recreating those items that I needed to just the once.
I haven't shared the Sketchup file, but if anyone wants to see it, I'm happy to do so.
So during that week that was about all I did apart from marking up the forward side (face, wall?) of the SS. I also started to cut it. You can see from the photo that I had to use an eraser in a couple of spots and that I used a drill to give me a start on the getting the radii correct on the gussets.
(http://s6.postimg.org/5pvibpizx/20160126_214414.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5pvibpizx/)
It wasn't until this weekend that I was able to do anything else, and to be honest, I was procrastinating a bit about some of the stuff that I had to do. In anycase, when I got down to it, doing the gussets (for want of a better term) wasn't too bad. Just a case of drilling out with a smaller drill than the diameter I needed and then using a needle file and sandpaper wrapped around a length of tube I shaped them. A mistake was made and that was not putting a gusset on the place where the outside vertical meets the horizontal on each side. I shall have to try to retro fit.
This bit (and the same on the other side):
(http://s6.postimg.org/pplb7i5il/Missing_Bit.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pplb7i5il/)
Also the height of this face is not as high as it should be - I have cut it at this height because this is where the deck goes and I wanted to use a width of plastic that was more suitable to the scale than the 1mm plastic I was using for the structure.
Several of the parts cut out:
(http://s6.postimg.org/6tfmno3n1/20160208_115720.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6tfmno3n1/)
These are the front and rear faces, the lower side pieces and a single big piece that goes in to act both as deck above the lower sides and as a support and straightener for the front and rear. Which would have been OK - IF it had actually been square. I ended up re-cutting it...
This shows the assembly of the rear face and the lower side, plus the big deck/support piece. As yo can infer from the photo, the plastic had bowed and I had to glue half of it in place then straighten the bow and glue the other half.
I put a side piece in place and glued it the bits I had together:
(http://s6.postimg.org/t2tju7z3h/20160208_154421.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/t2tju7z3h/)
The sides are made of two separate faces as there is a recess that runs vertically in between them where there are doors etc. All will become apparent when constructed (I hope!).
And that's where we are.
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Very nice :-) :-)) :-)
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Some intricate work going on there and you are making a damn good job of it. It looks to be 1mm plasticard, is that going to be robust enough? I used it on my last build and although a larger scale so its a larger structure, I should really have used 2mm as the 1mm is delicate and flimsy.
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Hi Brian,
yes the 1mm is sufficient - the whole structure (minus the mast) is less than 60 deep X 70 high x 115 long - plus the wings of course. It's very robust to the feel. Actually I should point out that it is HIPS - High Impact Polystyrene, so maybe it's little more robust than the usual Evergreen or Plastruct plasticard.
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A couple more construction photos.
I have started using 0.25mm pasticard rather than continuing with 1mm for everything - but only for areas that are not structural.
(http://s6.postimg.org/os65qiw6l/20160219_085731.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/os65qiw6l/)
I could try and describe these but it would probably make more sense to show the parts in place - when I get there...
Also some more structural work on the aft/engineering spaces where the 1mm plastic had a curve in it. Solved by more 1mm plastic glued across the curve:
(http://s6.postimg.org/w9jyjhb3h/20160219_085516.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w9jyjhb3h/)
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It has been very hot and humid in Auckland. Unbearably so. And then we went and got kittens and as they aren't allowed outside yet, we can open much to get fresh cool air. So it's been hot. Which has meant not much time in the garage.
So this is all the extra bits assembled in the forward structure:
(http://s6.postimg.org/ipbk3botp/20160228_171923.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ipbk3botp/)
And:
(http://s6.postimg.org/961v9v1bh/20160228_171934.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/961v9v1bh/)
Once again this was a bit hit and miss. I seem to be able to get things cut to about a 1/2mm in accuracy, but at this scale that sticks out like a sore thumb... I had to true-up the the vertical cuts in the sides of the SS as shown here. That got them to about 6.4mm wide. I had planned on 4mm. So 1 piece of 1mm and 2 pieces of 1/4mm plastic were inserted to bring things back to the right width. And then the pre-cut and glued recess was glued in. You can see in these pics that I have added filler in several places. This is after using the flat faced needle file to smooth things off as best I can. A bit overzealous in some places unfortunately...
Anyway, on the aft structure I put in place a square piece to keep things all nicely lined up:
(http://s6.postimg.org/amdds048d/20160228_172103.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/amdds048d/)
This sits recessed by a little from the top edge as the top of this needs to sit exactly aligned with the 1st level down from the top of the forward structure. Another "wait and see" explanation I think.
Also, having refilled the external test tank over the weekend I dropped the hull in it to see what happened. Several things happened.
First I discovered that the aft ballast tank still fills slower than the forward tank.
Second I discovered that one of the O-rings on the forward pumps likes to work it's way off when left running for a couple of minutes.
Third I discovered that I still have a leak in the aft tank, but it is very slight.
Fourth, I discovered a new leak, but something I should have fixed already anyway as I created a hole in one of the tubes that runs the wires to the forward pumps...
Onwards and upwards I guess...
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One of the small problems I have is trying to decide what order to do things in - I keep thinking of things to do but then stop and think about whether I should do that right now - or not!.
Having gotten as far as I have with the forward structure I felt that I needed to work on the wings. Part of that was establishing the top deck or roof or <pick your name>...
I measured out how that should be from the plans in Sketchup and then drew it out on some 1mm plastic. I allowed some overhang - fortunately.
(http://s6.postimg.org/o03yap8x9/20160306_105335.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/o03yap8x9/)
That's what it looked like.
So I cut it and then trial fitted, got it sorted in my mind and glued it on. Only to remove it immediately when i discovered that the existing construction wasn't as flat as I thought it was... I corrected that then glued it down again.
(http://s6.postimg.org/9se9m1w8d/20160306_110742.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9se9m1w8d/)
Then I progressed to:
(http://s6.postimg.org/5abytyg6l/20160306_114151.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5abytyg6l/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/cp1amc225/20160306_115122.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cp1amc225/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/uhrg7y8od/20160306_121510.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/uhrg7y8od/)
And that's all for this week.
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A month a of busy weekends one way and another.
A made some progress over Easter.
(http://s6.postimg.org/b3sgdrcz1/20160329_165807.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/b3sgdrcz1/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/3rn087ur1/20160329_165815.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3rn087ur1/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/qdsbky8h9/20160329_165826.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qdsbky8h9/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/cy5avhzzh/20160329_165835.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/cy5avhzzh/)
The bridge was relatively simple. A top and bottom piece, shaped with sandpaper to round the corners off. A cross added through the centre and some of the 0.25mm plasticard as the vertical sides. It only ogt complicated when I discovered the glue and then the clamps had caused a little deformation of the sides. I used Tamiya putty to fill this up, but found that softened the plastic as well.
Boxing the diagonal and vertical supports for the bridge started out easy - the pieces that fitted to front were quite simple. But the diagonal behind that running at an angle back to the main structure and then up to the top were not easy (the pieces I am referring to are best seen in the last photo above). Too many angles to get right to make up box sections. I did spend several hours trying to get this right before I gave up and made solid pieces to work from. I used 2 strips of 2mm plastic glued together and a single piece of 0.25mm to get them square. It was just a matter of trimming and fettling to get them fitting correctly from there.
The leak I discovered in the wiring tube I fixed with a section of larger diameter tube. I cut a length, cut down it's length to open it up and fitted it over the existing tube with some araldite all over, in and around.
The slipping O-Ring is fixed (I hope) by taking a small section out of it and joining the two ends with super glue.
TTFN...
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Not a huge amount of progress last weekend, but some...
I focused on getting the ladders between decks in place. Not perfect...
(http://s6.postimg.org/y16jiolt9/20160408_100923.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/y16jiolt9/)
I also put the roof (?) on top of the engineering tower and made it look like it would connect to the bridge section. Fortunately, unbelievably almost, the relative heights are exactly where they need to be:
(http://s6.postimg.org/j3th3xj71/20160408_100950.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/j3th3xj71/)
These two pieces really need to be joined togther and that means glueing them to the deck, but given that there are minimal gaps between them I need to get some paint in those hard to reach place first... Which means figuring out the colour to use.
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I glued the railing (except its solid not a rail) on top of the SS:
(http://s6.postimg.org/9jk1mcvhp/20160424_160802.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9jk1mcvhp/)
It's not right and has gone all wonky, so will have to come off and be redone. I'll have to think about how I do that.
I wanted to start doing more work on the deck, so enclosed the raised bits that run along the length:
(http://s6.postimg.org/rijaxblv1/20160424_160712.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rijaxblv1/)
(http://s6.postimg.org/uf6bxlrot/20160424_160721.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/uf6bxlrot/)
and also put these in place:
(http://s6.postimg.org/jeb6skzfx/20160424_160739.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/jeb6skzfx/)
I can only assume these are for trapping spills of oil coming from the main on- and off-load pipes that are located at this point.
Putting the flat tops on the raised section took quite a bit of mucking about. The deck isn't flat and the framework that I built up isn't regular as a result, so there were quite a few gaps that I had to work glue into to get the top stuck down and then fill then up with Tamiya filler.
Each of the triangular supports that sit vertically on each side of the raised section had to be cut and fitted. There are 35 down each side at the moment - there will be 37, so that's a total of, umm, 148 pieces... That was not fun. They are a 5mm x 5mm triangle BTW. Obviously the supports to the centre of the deck are glued to both the deck and the raised section. On the side to the outside of the hull they are only glued to the deck so that I can remove the centre section. Well - I hope they are only glued to the deck...
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I envy you the patience to work at this scale AListair, I really do. My current build is 1/100, the tiny bits like railings are driving me up the wall they are so fiddly and fragile. Don't forget if you want to take shortcuts, things like your stairs can be had in photo etched sheets, I bought a set as I couldn't cut them from plastic even with my laser cutter. The p.e is available right down to 1/600 scale, but the more popular scales are widely available.
I'm not sure about what you are calling spillways, they could well be. However any pipework fitted to the vessel or indeed the flexi pipes to connect from landside to ship are always fitted with self sealing valves to avoid and accidental environment damage, just a bit of info for you.
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Hi Brian,
thanks for your comments, I had a good look via Google for the P.E. stuff and there is some to be had, but not as much or as - lets be honest, cheap - as I was hoping! But I have a plan - not sure yet if it's cunning however :)
Otherwise progress has been slow the last few weeks - other things to do getting in the way.
I've addressed the issue with the bulwark (is that the term??) at the top of the super structure by cutting and fitting a piece of styrene that runs the whole length and sits onthe vertical face. It will need some filler maybe to make it look the part but should work.
(http://postimg.org/image/h6b8zudf1/)
(http://postimg.org/image/65g3utl65/)
The only other significant items are the two storage/work areas up towards the bow of the ship. Small rectangular boxes at this scale made from 1mm styrene.
(http://postimg.org/image/6fnme5zsd/)
(http://postimg.org/image/wp8owylpp/)
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Once again, not much progress as I've been busy with other things.
I have, however, drawn up in Sketchup what the top of the engineering tower would look like - the result is this:
(http://s6.postimg.org/4b3pwgf3h/Eng_Stack.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4b3pwgf3h/)
Some of this stuff I can make!